Making Damascus Steel 3

[Conan568]

I found plans and built it.

Try Google, see what comes up.

[CubeSquid]

How did you make your forge? I've been struggling for months trying to make a working forge for making pattern welded steel.

[Lvduggo69]

@Conan568

Wow ! That is amazing ! I would think it was a twist by watching guys I know that make billets . U work real hard on your steel bro.

I'm glad to see that u got a auto hammer. The first vid I saw of yours u were just using a anvil and hammer.

[Conan568]

@Lvduggo69

Yeah that hammer came up for sale half price, so I grabbed it.

[Lvduggo69]

@Conan568.

U said a while back on this vid that u didn't twist this ? Common ! That is soooooo a

twist !

[Conan568]

@Lvduggo69

No twist, I ground grooves in either side.

[drewbob901]

how do you get the groove in it

[Conan568]

@drewbob901

You can file them in, grind them in, or mill them in, if you have a milling machine.

[drewbob901]

@Conan568 thank you for responding and making the video it was great i am just starting out but i wish to make pattern welded steel in the future and i was also wondering how you could make the pattern specificly in a shape on the blade?

[Conan568]

@drewbob901

That's a cool idea.

It could be done by grinding away the corner/edges of the pre-shaped but still flat Damascus bar then forging the bar flat again after.

[drewbob901]

@Conan568 again thanks for the response and i will try that once i start on pattern welded steel.

[benwood9]

what is your forge made of like what used for the heat

[Conan568]

@benwood9

I use a propane forge.

[LeetZoneProductions]

sewing for men.

[TheChildrenofOlympus]

lol looks like a crinkle french fri

[Conan568]

@TheChildrenofOlympus

That's the comment that I get the most, and you're absolutely right.

Only with this fry you don't need any hot sauce.

[TheChildrenofOlympus]

@Conan568 lol

[CompleteEpicosity]

@Conan568 Oh, ok. So every now and then when the piece gets to long, you just cut it in half and re-weld it and start the whole process over again?

[Conan568]

@CompleteEpicosity

That's how you increase the layer count.

I like 336 layers.

[CompleteEpicosity]

how are the layers formed? is it just by hitting it on different sides, or is there an actual folding process?

[Conan568]

@CompleteEpicosity

It's done by layering different steels together then welding cutting re stacking and welding again.

[SvenDreyriAx]

Does the mechanical hammer have any major advantages other than speeding the whole process up?

[Conan568]

@SvenDreyriAx

Lots of them.

Most smithing hammers are rounded off slightly and these power hammers when equipped with flat dies make forging a piece of iron into a perfectly flat bar very easy.

[ReidN79]

@SvenDreyriAx Not only does it save your labor (and your arm) but there are forging techniques that are impossible by yourself otherwise - like creating a center fuller on both sides of a blade (like on some medieval swords). You can do it with a top and bottom fuller, but you need a helper to actually strike with the sledge while you hold the fuller and the workpiece. Its way harder and takes longer.

[blacksmither1]

notice that the top comment is about a fry on a video about steel forging

[Conan568]

@blacksmither1

Yeah I get that a lot.

[Breathor]

Why does this video make me hungry....

[Conan568]

@Breathor

Because it looks like a French fry I'm told.

[asianricexD]

looks like a golden french fry

[Conan568]

@asianricexD

Nice and hot.

[chiimpy]

looks like a crinkle cut french fry

[Conan568]

@chiimpy

I get that a lot for this video :-)

[ipwnallnames]

@Conan568 hey there conan!:) I know this is somewhat of an idiotic question but.. where did you acquire your forge itself if you made it or.. I don't know. I'm sorry, i apologize for the ridiculousness of the question but i'm not even yet a newbie at metalsmithing. Thanks so much for the videos though, have a good one :)

[Conan568]

@ipwnallnames

I built my forge.

Just Google "propane forge" and buy or build a cylinder shape forge.

[7Gkar7]

So Dude ... can you do the damascus Steel Without Twisting it ... ?

I ask cuz i got no souch a machine for twisting and i reaaaaly wanna make a damascus knife.

[Conan568]

@7Gkar7

I don't twist it.

Google ladder pattern Damascus.

[Shawkins49]

Just curios about your Making Damascus Steel 3 video. Why do you create the wave pattern, is it to mix the steels or to make forging easier. And is that done only of Damascus steel?

[Conan568]

@Shawkins49

The grooves cut through layers of steel and when forged flat raises them to the surface and causes a ladder pattern.

[Shawkins49]

@Conan568 thanks for that

[TheSilverwolf19]

way to be dick, and yes i see wat u mean by ladder pattern

[Conan568]

@TheSilverwolf19

You accused me of misleading my Viewer's by calling a piece of re-bar, Damascus steel on my channel, then you have the gall to call me a Dick.

Ah OK.

[TheSilverwolf19]

wow straight up rebar lol 

[Conan568]

@TheSilverwolf19 I cut and ground alternating grooves in the sides of the bar to bring the layers up and cause what's called the ladder pattern.

If you don't believe me, that's your problem, not mine.

If you're just a Troll, you'll soon be blocked.

[blacksmither1]

@Conan568 so cutting grooves brings out the underlieing layers of steel in the knife?

[Conan568]

@blacksmither1

Yes, and forging it flat distorts the lamination's into a waveform.

[Conan568]

@awesomeroflpwnage

Lol, you're about the 5th person that's said that.

[acethemam123]

what did u cut the steel with

[Conan568]

@acethemam123

I used an abrasive cutoff saw to get an even depth, then smoothed them on the belt grinder.

[Greenf00t]

any chance you can make me a nice skinning knife ?

[knarfster]

I Thought Damascus steel was folded, I didn't see him fold the steel yet.

[Conan568]

@knarfster

I cut it into 4 pieces then weld it to an insertion rod for forge welding.

This allows me to reach my layer count in half of the welds that cuting and folding takes.

This video is putting in the ladder pattern.

[Nheox2]

I really don't know something about forging but really am curious, how did the small metals from part 1 and 2 became that long???

[Conan568]

@Nheox2

I lengthened it out with the power hammer in the video.

The air hammer I have now is a lot quicker.

[Nheox2]

@Conan568 so it means that by just hammering it it will gonna expand to look like a blade???

[Conan568]

@Nheox2

Yes.

This video is putting the pattern it, the next video shows the blade being forged.

[xXBallistic82Xx]

MMMMMMM, a giant glowing white castles french fry.

[HolidaysInDevon]

Nice video very interesting. Take a look at our channel and watch the Barbecue Butler video. Stops you spilling your drink ;)

[Conan568]

@HolidaysInDevon

Thanks, will do.

[hyubgaek]

Hey Conan first time seeing your videos. This is awesome, I really enjoyed it. I'm very interested in this, however I ran across information online that the method of producing a Damascus steel has been lost well over a 1000 year. My question is how do you know for sure that your steel internally and externally is just like or close to the actual Damascus steel method? Thank You

[Conan568]

@hyubgaek

This is pattern welded Damascus, you read about Wootz Damascus.

In either case the steels we are making are superior because we atart with better materials than the Ancient's had access to.

[hyubgaek]

@Conan568 Thank You for the info!

[JTZ012]

Hey Conan i am about to start smithing knives myself and i was wondering were do you get Damascus steel. I have never forged anything before and i am just starting to build my forge.

[Conan568]

@JTZ012

I make my Damascus steel, but you don't have to unless you're serious about mastering this art.

They sell it on ebay.

[attackoftherandom]

what is your oven (not sure what else to call it) made of?

[Conan568]

@attackoftherandom

Basically it's a steel tube lined with a high temperature refractory clay with gas and air mixture blown into it.

It's called a forge.

[attackoftherandom]

@Conan568 i thought it was a forge but wasnt sure

[sonofa6699str]

is the homemade furnace? lol

[ballygeale1]

i was watching a fellow on you tube last nite and he was makeing a knife from a rail road spike,if u print in (makeing a railroad spike knife) his name is andy alm.he made a nice knife.

[Conan568]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[ballygeale1]

thats great ,i wish i cud do that ,only in america.

[Conan568]

I'm in Canada and you can do this anywhere.

You don't need expensive equipment, just some hammers a heat source and something to serve as an anvil.

[huandogofwar]

@ballygeale1 you can make a cheap forge with bricks and a couple of weed burners. you get great steel from car springs(about 1% carbon is great for both sprins and knives), most mechanics will let you take old ones for free, and hammers are for sale all ovet the world, but remember that in the end everything is a hammer

[StormAngel13]

No offence,but the method for making Damascus steel is *still* lost. This is simply pattern welded steel (incorrectly named 'damascus' steel) and the methods for making it ,although different from region to region,developed as a necessity to strengthen lower quality iron/steel by using more than one type and folding it. Cultures as diverse as the Norse and the Japanese use(d) it,although with the advent of mid and high carbon steel it now has purely decorative value.

[Conan568]

No offense, but you're wrong on both counts.

Pattern welded Damascus WAS traded in Damascus at the same time as Wootz Damascus, so IT IS Damascus steel.

Google "Al Pendray" and you can buy a Wootz Damascus knife made last year.

[StormAngel13]

You are right,of course. By following that logic, souvenirs of the eiffel tower sold in france are chinese bric-a-brac because they are made in their factories, and zebras are native to New York because you can find them in a zoo there. Damascus steel isnt about the presence or absence of the wave pattern,or even in the pattern welding technique itself. It is mostly dependant on the metallurgical content and the forging method(s) used.

[StormAngel13]

The few surviving examples of true 'damascus' steel are badly preserved, but scientists have seen an uncharacteristic presence of carbon nanotubing (giving it far greater flexibility and strength than normal) and a structure that you dont find in normal pattern welding. A now rare book by Jim Hrisoulas ("The master Bladesmith") has far more on this topic.

[magnusXbane]

how much does a power hammer like that cost?

[Conan568]

About $2500 on ebay.

[gaaraman08]

0:30 giant steel french fry?

[Conan568]

Yeah it does lol.

[adept91]

Great video, but didn't the methods for making damascus steel become lost a long time ago?

[Conan568]

Yes, these methods were lost to the West until the late 70s.

Now people are making this pattern welded Damascus as well as Wootz Damascus.

[MEHMEDmaffiaRULES]

awsome. but why always knives i mean why not a sword ? a 2 handed one perhaps ?

[Conan568]

Thanks, I make knives because not too many people can afford a pattern welded sword.

I am working on a 22"+ long "Sutton Hoo" pattern sword blade though.

[MEHMEDmaffiaRULES]

nice dude hope you'l make a vid bout' that.. also do you make replicas ? i rlly would like too see frostmourne homemade :) (frostmourne is from World Of Warcraft)

[Conan568]

Thanks, I generally make knives and blades I have a chance of selling.

Something like that wouldn't sell easly.

[MEHMEDmaffiaRULES]

true

[mqqn01]

A true artist.

[Conan568]

Thank you.

[liquidflorian]

So put cutting groves in the steel you can influence the pattern of the finished billet?

[Conan568]

Sure, grooves holes, they even have special dies they used to make precise patterns in Germany.

[MarturashiClan]

i awlays wanted to forge my own sowrd. is it hard?

[Conan568]

Yes it is hard.

Start with something smaller first.

[mdc2296]

like my knife for example

[Conan568]

Yeah.

Start small to learn the ropes a bit then work your way up.

[roboawsome]

sword?

[shaunsk8ordie]

cheers for the reply

[shaunsk8ordie]

i find when i use the pheumatic hammer my job bouces around how do u stop this happening

[Conan568]

Try not hitting it a hard and make sure the work is hot enough.

Once you learn the hammer, ie. develop the feel, you can increase the force of the strikes.

[Pookle37]

Do you sell these?

[Conan568]

I do when I have a chance to make a few.

This year has been a bad year.

[screwball3z]

Does the hammer always strike with the same amount of force?

Amazing watching a block of steel turned into a blade

Awesome watching you work on this

[Conan568]

No this hammer strikes harder the faster it goes.

I'm glad you enjoy the vids, I hope to have new videos up this fall.

[Samuel11722]

your fernce looks unstable but eny way good video

[Conan568]

It's fine, and it works pretty well.

That one burst of flame was a bunch on spider-web I threw in just before Connor filmed me again.

[artak371]

идиотизм

[Conker303]

Subscribed. :P

[Conan568]

Cool, thanks.

[electrontube]

Totally subscribed. This is an awesome video series.

[drSpirt]

ну и хуле?

[ChristianArmorOfGod]

Fantastic... Thanks.

[NotnaRed]

Well....

Subscribed.

[Conan568]

Thanks.

[bobman2026]

are all damascus swords forged with that many layers?

[Conan568]

Of course not.

Some people like a fine pattern and some a course pattern.

I like a fine pattern.

It takes more work, but I think it's worth it.

[Czaendermajer]

yes it is the same as katana making process . but the steel is made into sand like grain & mixed with carbon & other things I FORGOT then it is carefully mixed but not melted or something like that & a lot of process, but there is another thing for powerfull metal which is compressing the molecules & its heavy but indestructive

[ActaSanctorum]

You should be wearing more protective clothing than that

[Conan568]

Didn't you catch my handle?

It's Conan.

I have safety glasses on always, and for this operation they are really all that's needed.

When I forge weld, that's a different story.

I wear heavy gloves safety glasses and Dididium glasses as well as a leather apron and a heavy cotton shirt.

[lordofgonzo]

Thanks. I have always heard that about the 20 Mule. I was just wondering because I just read an article very recently talking about "fluxless" forging in regards to damascus blades and hadn't seen the other videos before this one.

Thanks again.

[lordofgonzo]

What sort of flux do you use, and is it needed when you are forging like that?

[Conan568]

I used to use 20 Muleteam borax, but there's a lot of water in it that has to cook off.

Unfortunately that steals heat from the billet and it also leaves crap on the bar.

I've since bought a couple of pounds of anhydrous borax on ebay and the stuff works better and cleaner too.

I only use it for the forge welding process, it's not needed for the procedure in this video unless you break a weld open.

That only happens if you have a partial weld, and I haven't had that in 20 years.

[wolfboyfuhkup]

...yeah, I was kinda curious about that myself, but as far as I can tell thats what he means.. you just see it for the first time as a cube, and don't see the layers.. is that right?

[Conan568]

That cube was a stack of 7 bars of steel.

When I weld it I also true up the sides of the bar, so it's hard to see any layers.

This is the most important weld because I'm welding 7 pieces together rather than 4 pieces for the next 3 weld sessions.

[HotForgeChaos]

Would 1020 and, I don't know, Stellite or 2767 work with laminating? I'm practicing on a piece of 4330 but I want to make a real fancy one

[Conan568]

If you're learning how to forge weld and make Damascus, stick to simple alloys until you have the process mastered.

Leaf springs mixed with mild steel weld easily, and they look great.

Be sure to grind the surfaces to be welded clean, and don't give up if you don't nail it right away.

Soak the billet well at welding heat and you should get good welds every time.

[ActaSanctorum]

Stellite is unforgable until a temp at which the other metals would have melted away

[Tickka]

damn good working man.

RESPECT!

[KFCHambone]

when you guys used a twister in one of your videos. It looked like u guys used a pipe threader, does it spin say 1/2 or 3/4 h.r.s. bar stock. THANKS Greg

[Conan568]

That wasn't my video, but I have seen it.

It looks like a great way to twist this steel.

I use a pipe wrench with an extra handle to twist my steel.

[MrGatoMan1]

So all the riges in the metal is from the welding? (sorry im just starting to learn knife making)

[Conan568]

I cut those grooves to expose the edges of the laminations in the bar to produce what's called the "ladder pattern".

[LGascco]

This is so amazing. I just love it and really appreciate the work that goes into damascus so much!

[Dimwooo]

dam at first i thought there was sumthing wrong with camera\

but yea thats cool

[hellcow22]

looks like a giant french fry :p

[dienized]

why damascus is a waste of time anyways, all u have to do is get a barstock and drill bits then heat the barstock and drill bits over 860 degress celsuis and touch just clamp them together lightly the free electrons would carbonize the barstock from the drill bit and spread them totally evenly thourout the barstock

[Conan568]

Will someone pay you $1500 for it?

That's what the last Bowie knife I made sold for.

[dienized]

yeah u could make a katana and sell for like 4600

[Conan568]

A ladder pattern Katana would be worth a lot for sure.

Depending on the hardware, you are not far off on your price estimate.

[dienized]

besides normalizing is a good process to get into a habit off because in less u heat the piece everytime the carbon and electrons are messed up and heating it up to 860c or preferably more will free them redispersing them making the pice alot better

[jwc083]

Was wondering if you wouldn't mind showing the initial process of layering and welding the steel. I read about using different steel sheets and basically pounding them together...but it is hard to visualize.

[Conan568]

Just watch my other videos #1 and #2.

It shows me welding the 7 layer stacks of steel together.

[jwc083]

Is that the part where you start with that short fat cube?  Is that the welding process?

[Conan568]

Yes it is.

The first 2 videos are of me forge welding 7 layer billets together.

Very soon I'll be starting on at least 4 new bars of Damascus in my re-tooled shop.

[gueturbo]

Why don't people just use the machine to pound on the metal when folding the metal. Is there a different outcome if you manually use your hammer?

[Conan568]

I do use a machine to weld.

You just have to hit the stack lighter so the welds set.

I don't fold, I cut grind off the scale and quad stack to save time and cut the welding down.

[Conan568]

The Wootz or Oriental Damascus steel process has been rediscovered and a few smiths are making it now.

It's made by placing pure iron sand and charcoal in a crucible.

This crucible is sealed shut and baked in a forge at an orange heat for a few days.

The bloom of raw steel is taken out and heated to welding heat and hammered until the impurities come out and the bar is solid.

[theubersith]

Sweet. Have you done any strength, stress, or hardness tests on it yet? True Damascus blades are said to be able to bend up to 90deg without breaking and cut through other steel without having it's blade dulled.

[Conan568]

90 degrees, I've bent these blades around in a complete circle without it breaking.

Cutting other steel though, that's an old wives tale.

Damascus is the best for hunting or combat knives.

[dienized]

damascus is best for wester europe type combat knives not any other

[gueturbo]

Isn't that like "tamahagane"?

[Conan568]

"tamahagane" is folded to add carbon to the steel and the smiths will combine different hardnesses of steel in their blades to add strength to the hard core.

"tamahagane" is made in a large furnace from black sand.

The trick is to pick the right parts of it, some is good for blades and some not.

[Conan568]

Yeah it does doesn't it.

I cut those grooves through the steel and the layers so than when I flatten it out it distorts the layers into waves.

After the bar is forged flat it will become ladder pattern Damascus.

It's beautiful steel, and when I buy my new Striker air hammer I plan on making a large amount of Damascus steel.

I will film and post that procedure as well.