@thatbrian Hi friend. I didn't hear John say you had to yell at them. However Jesus double whammied his disciples when he told them they must repent or likewise perish. Jesus didn't pull punches. You know that. Piper is passionate about people but nowhere near as much as he is about God.
I'm Canadian, and therefore a hockey fan, when i became a christian a couple years ago i still was a fan of hockey. Sports are fine to entertian yourself with, just be careful, if you cry after a heart breaking defeat you likely have an idol. Idolitry might be the most common sin and its often hard to tell if it is sin, most everyone struggles with idolitry.
AMEN! Football was my god, my idol, my all until I came to know Jesus Christ as my LORD and SAVIOUR! Anything more important to a believer than Christ is an idol. Keep preaching the Lordship of Christ John Piper!
@Strefanasha If you know no one who loves Jesus, you know no one who is saved. For Jesus said in John 8:42, "If God were your Father, you would love me." Jesus went so far as to say his followers must love him more than their own families (Matt 10:37). James 2:5 says God has promised the kingdom of heaven "to those who love him." 2 Timothy 3:4 indicts non-belivers for not being "lovers of God." And 1 Corinthians 16:22 says, "If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed."
colossians 3:2-3 let heaven feel your thoughts, don't worry about things on earth. for you died to this life and your real life is hidden with Christ in God.
my all time favorite verse's which i think about when the going gets tough.
@StrumstickJoe i know it all sounds weird man...that one religion would have it right. but ever since i've become a Christian i've experienced peace of mind and hope. i don't understand everything about reality and God...but than again, who does? Christianity is a lifelong character development. Faith = not worrying about anything. and for the intellectual side, CS Lewis helps me out. it's not a mindless belief system where wishful thinking takes over. Christians question their beliefs often
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire .
Old testament influenced new testament
Your god is a bully of a character, that's all he is
It's hard sometimes when you're in a culture that would breathe out "Roll Tide" as soon and as easily as it would breathe out "God bless you." It's a cultural thing to go to church and the football game. Yet which one will matter in the end?
@cedyr123 Thank's for telling me how I feel about the origin of the universe, and of life, and of morality. I wish that I could be so perceptive about those whom I have never met or read anything about beyond a few sentences.
@mime454 Honestly I can never Judge your personality and how you feel about Origin of universe ,life ...... without knowing you , Even after knowing you it is hard to judge ...
However the notion of being an Athiest is not true regardless ; you know there should be a creator .They say we are carbon Dust ... I say Who created the carbon Dust ????
I am nothing ,Read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation a lot would be changed ....
Sorry If I'am offending you in anyway , But this is True !!!!
@cedyr123 I'm not offended. I have read the Bible, in fact, I used to be a young earth creationist. When I looked out to seek the evidence, and the clear east asian myth assimilation that is the bible (seriously, almost every aspect of the bible, from Noah to Jesus is some copy from another religion) I had to decide if I wanted to follow the superstitions of my parents, or provable facts. I chose Science,
As to who created carbon, imposing a complex origin begs a bigger question than it answers.
@mime454 Well I came across almost all the Myths from the Book of Darkness to Jesus VS Bali All are listed here : "kingdavid8 dot KOM" (check it out). As for the other point If Athleticism is not true why you need to chose Christianity ... Well you don't have to. I am not trying to "resell" you Christ or anything, My Major Argument is that there should be a Creator/God .Whether you find it in Buda or Christ this is another Argument.
BTW I live in a country where the majority is not Christian
@mime454 and I never had something like a revelation' or 'asked god to reveal himself to you. Whoever tells you that ...run away from him as fast as you can ... However I cant deny that I feel that i am in self peace/ Joy sometimes ; But again Being a Christian doesn't Guarantee your best life now , I have seen a friends "true Christian" suffer the worst in life .....
nope, they are not all the same. the can't be because they all contradict one another. they are all mutually exclusive. check it out. do some research and you will find they are all vastly different especially in the details. Christianity is the one true religion because it comes from the only one true God who is from the beginning. All other 'religions' are false because they came after from the ideas of ungodly men who wanted their own way. All the cults (eg. momonism) came after Christianty.
@mime454 Oh how I pray that you would not stop at John and seek who he is so passionate about. Oh that Christ would open your eyes to see Him! then you would see why John is the real deal, because he has seen the Christ!
What a dialema, I hate both but I suppose I could just tollerate that american football or puffs rugby as we call it, but i could never stomach this religious tosh.
@chargentmurphy4077 Contrary to those whom are serving by law I preach the gospel for thirty two years now. Starting in Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, South Bronx, and the last fifteen years at a University in the south west.But I believe in liberty. If I stay home and watch the Price is Right I'm at perfect liberty. My salvation is not contingent on works.The fact that I can watch a football game and have liberty is what makes service liberty not law.Not like the guy who calls me to repentance
To all those who are brand new Christians & those who have been justified by faith please DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GARBAGE! This is a religous spirit & has led many to doubt their salvation, exchange their faith which satan is greatly after for a lie, to "prove" your saved via Washer, Piper, Macarthur & the like. Keep your Armor on please!!! I have videos that challenge these heretical teachings of TULIP Calvinism, Armenianism & the like The wrath Washer is exhibiting is not of God but of the flesh
I love Jesus watching football,I have perfect liberty.And He loves to watch me relaxed and at peace in Him. I'm not anxious about who is saved and who is not because not one of His elect will be missed.I cannot help anyone be saved.That is giving guilt with no liberty.God will not miss one of His people but the Bears might miss a tackle
"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." 2 Peter 2:19-20
Wake up! You are NOT saved! Repent and believe the Gospel!
@BrotherManasseh Your right while Piper promises liberty he delivers corruption.But you keep being self righteous telling people they are not saved.I'm so free in Christ knowing He did not make me a little lord to condemn others.Free! totally completely free.But the self righteous compare,go to church,do good works,making a show of not Chris tbut themselves.Go back to your vomit and wallowing in the mire
@polopowers1 I'm not self righteous, I'm the vilest of men. I've no delusion as to where my Salvation comes from, I'm saved by Grace thru Faith. But I'm also not deluded into thinking I can then live as I like. I'm only free in the WILL of God. If I stray from His will then I fall from grace. I can do this by trying to be self righteous (works of the Law) or by turning Liberty into Liscense (Lawlessness) the Way is narrow, I walk it by God's grace. Any tree that doesn't bring forth fruit is lost
0:33- Listen to what he says AGAIN AND AGAIN until it sinks home. "You have to make them SCARED that they are not SAVED." The single most disgusting 5 seconds I have ever seen on youtube. And the ESSENCE of religion.
@JohnnieNaked well, it goes hand in hand with love. You must show what God hates, sin, in order for someone to understand God's love. If understanding that God hates your sin scares you, then so be it. Fear is the result, not the intention. If you truly understand the Gospel then you will see that you need not fear because God's love has conquered sin for those who believe in Christ as their substitute. Those who do not believe have good reason to be afraid. That is his point.
If you wanna take the logic behind that and apply it to any other subject, you can, it would be fair. I'm speaking to those who don't actually read the Bible and fully understand it. Those who don't believe and discredit it with simple logic, without having the full comprehension of it. I'm not a PhD, nor a proffesor and don't claim to be smarter than anyone here in this subject. I come from the point of view that I am ignorant compared to those who we see teach here, like John Piper.
My 2 cents, it might not be worth much but here it goes. If you must speak of the Bible and it's validity, you must first study ALL of its origins, ALL its history, the way it's been translated through out history, verify it's contents against secular beliefs, read it for yourself, theorize and try to fully comprehend it in a very maticulate manner. And only then, when you have all of the facts, have the right to oppose it's teachings and claim to know why the Bible was written.
littlewing ; By that logic , the only people who can challenge Darwinian Evolution are the people who fully understand the science that underpins it . Lets say , PhD in biology or higher . Anyone else is just blowing smoke . Fair ?
@ilikezappa No, you just need to understand the basics;
BTW, Darwin's theory only further prove God;
He wrote the book "The Origin of SPECIES" not "The Origin of Life", His theory is that there was an initial KIND of animal that breed intergenusly, and the result was a same KIND of animal with different traits; not a completely different kind;
Darwin himself even said (paraphrased) that cats can only give birth to other cats, and that the same cats cant give birth to mice
Yes perhaps even an understanding of the basics would help there Akro . try talking to a biologist.
Football please . Not Cricket , which lasts an eternity , unlike anything else , despite what Johhny Piper will tell you ! He thinks that life came before matter , poor boy.
Hi paint1487. In answer to your question ; That does not apply at the quantum level , where matter pops in and out of existence quite happily . The "laws of physics" have only applied since the big bang . What happened before is speculation , if there was a before .
34 seconds ago @paint1487 Those who do not believe have no reason to be afraid , surely ?
( silly to be afraid of something you dont believe in ?)
The only thing we should fear is returning to a pre scientific dark age where people like Mr Piper held sway with his tales of torture and associated mumbo jumbo. He probably thinks boils are caused by impure thoughts. Back to the 14th Century Johnny !
Why would anyone want to worship an invisible, vengeful fascist, who disguises the true aim of mind control with "believe in me so I may save you"? Only scared sheep follow these teachings... Those who give up their reason for imagined spiritual security are for the most part, weak minded and fearful of the unknown.
Brother, please read one of the biographies of the Christ whom Piper seems to believe we should treasure above all else - it might change your mind/heart.
The amazing thing is that the invisible god became visible (John 1:14); and did so to save sinners (1 Tim 1:15) like you and me who reject him outright ( Romans 3:9-18) This behaviour doesn't seem consistent with the 'vengeful fascist' you describe.
Dare to use your reason to study the Bible with an 'open mind' - it is an amazing treasure.
Mumbo, jumbo rescued89. I refuse to believe that an all seeing, all powerful invisible father figure is watching me and seeing everything I do. And, though you claim he loves me, he's willing to throw me in a pit of eternal torment, forever, if I don't believe in him... and you ask me to open my mind. I think you should realize that God was created by man to try and explain that which we do not understand. I just feel religion is a cop out. Rational faith trumps blind faith every time.
I happen to believe there is plenty of evidence that can be rationally assessed supporting faith in the unseen God of the Bible - primarily the history of Jesus. I don't feel it is any more rational to refuse to believe a proposition simply because we dislike its implications than it is to blindly believe it because we wish it to be true; what matters is its truth. Hence my suggestion to read the Bible with an open mind.
Please feel free to message me if you'd like a go at rational discussion.
What matters is truth. In that we can certainly agree. And a rational discussion is exactly what I'm after. So please, expound on this evidence that can be "rationally assessed to support faith in the unseen God"... but you must leave out the Bible, and every other so called holy book written by men. They are not a way to prove anything, since each Holy book has been changed and plagiarized from a previous incarnation or another.
Lets discuss. I leave the burden of proof upon you. Convince me.
There is no way you can prove the existence of God any more than I can prove magical, invisible, ethereal fairies are sitting on my shoulders and advising me telepathically on my next choice of carbonated beverage. As soon as you can get past the delusion of an all powerful daddy figure keeping you hemmed in and soothing all your fears of death, then you can start to really wonder at this incredible universe we live in.
Serge, there is no proof anyone can show you because as you said yourself, you REFUSE to believe there is a loving Father who sees and knows you. The "evidence" for God and His Son Jesus Christ is overwhelming to those who have eyes to see. (2 Corinthians 4 v4) I will be praying God opens yours.
cmon mowhair88. While I appreciate your sympathy for my "light" the FACTS of the matter are that you believe in something irrational & unprovable. More-over, you claim your faith based on quotes from a book written and re-written by world-ignorant men dead over 1000 years ago.
And yes, I REFUSE to believe in anything that cannot be proven by reason.
And what kind of eyes do you mean? Obviously not the ones that reveal things for what they are... they would be of no use to religion.
You want to have a rational conversation? You seem to be fond of "reason" so lets discuss this since you want to leave out the Bible. How did you get your reason? It cant come from an atom, an atom has no reason. It cant come from an animal, an animal has no reason. So that rules out evolution. So what explains it other than a creation?
How did I get my reason? Well, it wasn't by relying on religion to answer all my questions about the universe! :) and I certainly believe there are animals other than humans that reason. Tests in attention, categorization, memory, spatial cognition, conciousness have determined that there are several species that use reason. But you in your hubris and pride believe that we are the only ones capable of it! Talk about a narrow view...
Your stance on the Bible reflects your own dissbelief and therefore automatically assumes everyone deep down believes themselves to be the highest authority. I do hope you understand that the people who wrote the Bible, and subsequenly translatedit, did not believe that they were writing with their own authority but with God's. Paul is clear on this in his letters. Who would dare alter the words of God? Or on the other side, would God allow such a misstake to affect His written word on earth?
And you avoiding my question shows your ignorance. Why do you just "REFUSE" as you say, to not believe in something that "can not be proven by reason" when you believe in something that CANT EVEN EXPLAIN REASON? Dont ask for a conversation and then avoid it when you actually get one.
Science is working on explaining reason, and so far we are doing a much better job than creationists...I mean, If it were up to people like you, we would never question things and life would utterly stagnate. You say the Bible says it's because of so-and-so, so don't bother trying to figure it out. Again, shutting out your reasoning for a simple, easy, completely illogical explaination! Typical religious wackos. Question your world you ignorant louts!
Okay if you guys are doing so much better then answer my question. What gives you "genius`" reason? Again cant be an atom, an atom has no reason. Do you think it just happened by chance? Because that wouldnt work either. Dont worry ill wait...
Genius reason? well, how about having a much more evolved brain than all the other animals. Evolution does a rather nice job at explaining that one.
And as far as chance goes, why not? Life is a mutable thing that learns as it grows, through trial and error. It's not extraordinary to suppose that something will become smarter and more adaptable after millions of years of evolution. So you see, it can work quite easily and logically if you give reason a chance.
Evolution does a good job of explaining that, yes I know...I believe in evolution(as long as their is a creator). But how did a single atom that has no purpose or meaning become the "blue print" if you will, of something that has purpose and meaning? That is a contradicting force and you know it, but I am sure that you will come up with something to make yourself feel comfortable with your ignorance.
On that front, you've got me. I don't know for certain how we've turned into what we are. I am not absolutely sure. But I'm not going to claim I know the answers when there is no evidence to make a rational conclusion. My beef is with religious wacks that believe they have the answers... nay, KNOW the answers, to life's mysteries with no proof! When I ask for proof, they produce some "divine" text that espouses a belief system designed to control the masses.
@mowhair88... do you believe everything you read in your version of the Bible? Do you believe that the men who wrote it, and re-wrote it, were writing with God's authority? I guess I should just take Paul's word that everything in it the Bible is true... cuz he said so... well, I guess no one has ever lied to you and you don't question things that don't make sense in the rational world. I guess ignorance really is bliss.
By your logic no book in history has truth in it. As for my version of the Bible I assume you mean the translation and as for that I'm confident in it's integrity with the historical manuscripts which exist. The differences in translation do not cast any doubt on the message being preached. IF there were such a glaring misstake in translation from the historical manuscripts I am certain it would have been highlighted and brought to Christian believers attention.
@mowhair88. By my argument I make no such claim that there is no book in history that has truth in it. And as for your confidence in the integrity of "historical manuscripts", good show! Though I just wonder how you get along in life with such a lack of doubt. To live and preach in absolute certainty that your beliefs and religion, to the exclusion of all others is true... it just wreaks of intolerance and ignorance.
I've made some pretty solid points that have yet to be challenged. waiting...
so your points against the Bible validity are that: it was written by men, as all books are; it was written long ago and so the copies we now have are not reliable because people have interfered with them. Is that a fair summary of your view of the Bible?
Can I ask why you think the Bible exists at all?
can you also remind me of your points which have been left unchallenged?
Q.1: The summary is correct but there are many more points I can add to those you've named.
Q.2:I believe the bible was written in an attempt to give meaning to humanity in an uncertain world. To establish a written standard for "moral" human behavior, as well as expound some far fetched ideas on how everything came to be.
Q.3: I'll just remind you to scroll up and re-read what's already been posted.
I apologise if I seem harsh, but I think religion breeds intolerance.
I don't want to miss something out that was all I'll scroll up in a bit. You are not being harsh just stating your opinion. As for breeding intolerance I'm not sure I follow you. A teacher who notices someone has missunderstood has every right to try and correct them, that is not intolerance but teaching. We have had a discussion and have I not listened to your point of view and suggested mine? Where is the intolerance?
I'd like to hear your other points on the Bible. I'm not sure I can add much more to the answers I've already given to the first two points you have. I don't think it is a worthwhile stance to suggest that a book being old and written by men is then false. The world is not stupid and wasn't then and would have questioned the appearance of a book of morals springing up from nowhere with no authority.
Would you say the Bible is a single religious book?
Do we love you tube and our ability to comment on the material than we do about Christ ! Another test that I fail with- out the sufficiency of His grace. Forgive me Lord.
@sincerelytill John is using football as an example...hes saying a true believer loves Jesus more than anything, and craves to seek Jesus christ Gods son.
There's no way out, you're entrapped in their lies. Their stories are to control your feeble mind. Their churches are eating through your wages. Temple of lies, so full of emptiness. Mirrors to their greedy ancient fraud. I stare in your eyes and see nothing. Your willing ignorance has destroyed you. You're chasing fantasies you'll never reach. I live my life above the lies of sheep. I'll never surrender, I'll always fight for my mind. With Satan by my side, I stand above all.
The time of dark chaos approaches us. We will join our hands in the demon's realm. The holy light cries out in pain. The lies of god have been cast aside. The powerless now cower before the master. While they mutter their prayers of ignorance. Singing empty songs of their defeat. They can not hide from Satan's wraith. He shall feast upon the hordes of sheep. Their tender blood, drunk as wine. Their life-less bodies, quickly devoured. Their brittle bones, have built his throne.
i love this because, if you did love them, you wouldnt want them to go to hell. reformed is the way. nopt too harsh at all. if you think this is harsh, you would hate the apostle and also isiaih and moses and everyone who has seen good in his full holiness.
"You gotta make this an issue sunday after sunday so that they feel scared that they're not saved" - that's to harsh and not the right way to promote assurance...
Too harsh?? Not the right way to promote assurance?? What does Scripture say about this? 2Cor 13:5 "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?" 1Cor 11:28,31 "But a man must examine himself..." Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling..." Hmm...maybe it's not too harsh...maybe it's crucial, not only for assurance, but for our sanctification too.
@Chriscjs You've taken Php 2:12b-13 out of context Chriscjs. It does not mean to determine the state of one's salvation. It is easy to get confused on this verse because of the dual meaning of "work out" in English. In Greek, this word means to work out something in the sense that you carry it out. It does not mean to figure out something. The Greek word for "work out" is in the present tense, so in addition it means to not only "work out" your salvation once but to continue to do it.
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Fellow Tubelers,
John Piper is talking about Sunday Football. I thought the idea was to live in Christ 24/7. He is complaining about people not going to church. Why? Christ is not a Church, it is faith.
Jesus said, it is not what goes in your mouth, but what comes out. What entitles Mr. Piper to condemn people to Hell? That is being judgmental. It is of no use, for me, to listen to a hypocrite, that wants followers to enrich himself.
Situational Priorities. If you were given the opportunity for a cold glass of water or a fistful of diamonds, you'd probably go for the diamonds, but if you were dying of thirst after 8 days in the desert your priorities would radically change. Today many stand in life not too worried about anything enjoying the pleasures of sin (diamonds) over the eternal satisfaction of Jesus. But when we die and kneel before our Creator who sees the secrets of the heart we will want the cold water of Christ
Two things: I agree with point one, though it is all from Him in the first place so enjoying His gifts are a glory to Himself.
Point two.........Very True, just make sure that you know without a shadow of doubt. Because this is eternity we're speaking of. to be wrong about what is real by suppressing the obvious has eternal implications.
yeah but if your god is real and is as loving as he supposedly is then I am not worried - he'll quickly realize that he didn't do enough to show me that he existed, he will apologize and we'll get on with it.
and you gotta think - what kind of parent abuses their child for all time just because they don't believe in them?
The problem is, If God is real and is as loving as He supposedly is, then you have a LOT to be worried about my friend. His love does not negate justice. And His standard is infinitely more perfect and righteous than our own. You may see yourself as pretty good, but held up to His standard we all fall short. Another problem is that we are not by nature children of God (though we are His creation), we are by nature rebellious children of wrath on the backhand of God's justice in need grace.
that is not love - punishing somebody eternally for the most minor of transgressions is not love - if that is the way that your god is then you need to reassess what the word "love" means...and while you are at it look up "justice" as well...
I'm not saying that that is not the way it is, just that you need to address the concepts honestly. Using the words "love" and "justice" to describe them is not being honest.
This is where you come with the misconception of minor transgressions. The authority to judge what is important and what isn't morally is not up to us. If I squash a bug you probably won't be mad, if I kill the president I will disappear. Now if God considers hatred to be as murder in the heart, and we sin against Him in that sense, then it is no small deal and the punishment will be dictated by the seriousness of the crime in the Law Givers eyes, not our own. This is why Grace is Amazing
And His love was shown in this way; that while we were at our worst, either the religious hypocrite or one who flat out denies His existence living for self, Christ died for us anyway. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. If a person takes his enemy worthy of death in his own hands and saves that individual instead of inflicting what he/she deserves then it is a great mercy, and to turn around and call them friends, what greater love is that?
I thought that the blood sacrifice thing died out in the Bronze age...and an all knowing god having to commit suicide in order to save it's creations does seem kinda silly....I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it...that is not great love...that is insanity.
I understand your view, but if you are going to say something about God as He has revealed Himself through the Bible, then represent Him rightly. Not based off of the biases that I have a feeling you obtained from many other influences. I've heard most of the arguments. God did not HAVE to do any of this. He did not create the sin, He did know it was coming, and it was apart of the plan He set before the foundation of the world that it would happen. But it was our will that inflicted it.
if your god fostered an environment in which he knew sin would come to be then he is responsible for the formation of sin. does it really make sense that we are to blame for our sinful ways when the only reason that we have them is because your god intentionally planted those seeds?
I think that you should start holding your god more responsible for its actions...stop crucifying yourself and demand that your god man up and accept responsibility.
That sounds very similar to a criminal attempting to blame the judge for his/her own actions. And to stand on the judgment seat over God, the just Judge of all the universe, will get you in no greater position than a criminal in civil court. But while you still have breath in your lungs you, for the time being, are under His patience to receive the acquittal by receiving the redemptive life changing (and trust me it has radically given me a very new outlook on life) good news
but the judge did not create the criminal where as your god supposedly created mankind. if the judge made the criminal a criminal then punished him for being a criminal (which is pretty much what your god is doing) then that is just silly.
and if the judge wanted the criminal to praise an worship him even though he made the criminal a criminal and then punished him...well that is even more silly.
In the beginning God made everything good, including man and woman, but He also gave them a will of their own to worship Him by enjoying Him in a close relationship with Himself and by the gifts He had given to them. But with that we decided to turn and rebel. Thinking ourselves as more important than the Creator we fell pretty hard. So the criminal analogy still stands. In fact it is actually worse in the case that the Judge had created the person in the first place for good.
I never get that about your breed of Christian - apologizing for your god - a god you claim created everything, including evil, death, pain, sin and the like.
Why don't you hold your god responsible for its own actions? Why do you feel the need to take the blame that is so obviously your god's to take?
I mean I'm all over the positive approach to life, but let's call a spade a spade...
I still think you're missing the point. From what we see in Scripture, anything can be corrupted outside of God Himself as He is the source of goodness and pretty much whatever is right. You continually blame Him for evil, when it is a result of our own falling that evil, pain, death, and sin exist in the first place. He created us, but we are the one's who rebelled, not Him. If you are open to it, read the gospel of John to see who this Jesus really is so you won't just take my word for it.
(cont) which places responsibility for said sin/evil squarely in it's lap and not that of man.
Again - don't drive yourself down because of your chosen deities faults and short comings. You are better than that...everybody is better than that. Hold your deity responsible for its actions and if it can't defend itself adequately then kick it to the curb and find another god who is more deserving.
The point hat you are trying to make is only viable if you use absolute blind faith: give your god credit for all things "good" and no responsibility for anything "bad"...all the while claiming that it is omniscient. Then claim that man is responsible for all things "bad", because this fosters a need for your god. Ignore the fact that an omniscient god would have known that its creation would result in sin/evil....(cont)
My friend what you are failing to see is that this does play out in reality, we see it all around us. Corruption and evil has plagued mankind for as long as we can see in history since the fall of Adam. To place this in the lap of the one who Created it all is like blaming the United Airlines for the terrorists inside of flight 175. Yes, God created us, and foreknew that good people would rebel, but He allowed this for His ultimate purpose of glorifying Himself by showing the ultimate (cont)
(cont) expression of love on the cross. Ultimately this is all about Him, we are just apart of His-story. For God to save a life is of great mercy, and for Him to give a rebel his due is of great justice. This is definitely by faith, but it is far from blind. What He has expressed in Scripture has played out in reality in my own life which is why I continue this dialogue. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble, which is why this is the gnat you are straining to swallow.
Well, If you're looking for an educated understanding of this subject, I encourage you to take a look at the Bible itself. You will see that a lot of the misrepresentations that you presented were not as you precluded (as long as you read it in context). And you'll see that Jesus expresses a radical difference in Himself from religion. It was nice chatting with you on here though :-) Peace to you friend!
And He did not have to do any of this, but while we are more evil than we could ever fear, we are more loved than we could ever hope, and He died for us anyway. His challenge is to taste and see His goodness and grace. This gift is received by calling out for His mercy, and trusting in His promise and He will make you His own, and you will know it and your life will be different and you will have a hope that when your brain stops you won't. Please soften your heart toward Him.
You are right. It is not the love of God that sends men to hell. It is the wrath of God who delares in His word that the soul that sins shall die. Furthermore, the bible tells us that God hates the wicked and has reserved the day of judgment for them.
1n354a All of your arguments appear strong in your own mind, but to those who seek not to explain or defend why God has willed things so, are at best petty and demonstrate that unless you repent, you too will find your place in the lake of fire.
see the threat of living forever in a 14th century poem is not all that bad a deal - any poem that remains popular for that long has to be good...what is petty is the act of ignoring what is in front of you in order to maintain a blind faith in a bronze age superstition...is there not even a little voice in your head screaming out to think for yourself?
No blind faith here, just blindness on your part. Petty?
Is there a voice screaming in your head asking you why do you fight so vigorously against a God whom you imagine does not exist? Is that insanity? No. It is proof that you will never be able to escape from the fact that there is a God and you will stand in His presence to answer for your crimes against His holiness. You supress the truth to your own eternal harm. Repent and believe the gospel or die in your sins. The choice is yours.
No, there is a voice in my head wondering how you can so feverishly believe in something that has no evidence supporting its existence. The only thing you have is a poorly translated, highly edited, creatively interpreted collection of Bronze Age, Middle East writings that you seem to think are something more than they appear. The choice between imagination land and that which is right in front of my face is a clear choice...I hope you realize this before you waste too much more of your life.
Fight on, but you wage a fools war against the God who you will give an account to. Be certain, your sins will find you out, and unless you repent and believe the gospel. You have been warned. The choice remains yours, but remember you are not promised tomorrow, but only a certain judgment after you depart this life. Fear the Lord! It is the beginning of true wisdom.
Waste? I am a preacher of righteousness. It is what the Lord above would have me do. So no waste.
Again why do you kick against the prics? I think you know. You are unable to supress the truth completely, though you long to. The God you despise has written His Laws on your heart, and you will be called to give an account. Be assured of this. God is not mocked, what soever a man sows that to will he reap. You have sown sin, you will reap death unless you seek the Lord's forgiveness.
see the thing is that I wouldn't have any problem with the Christian religion if it didn't just reek of snake-oil-salesman. if your beliefs dealt more with reality as opposed to imaginary, baseless assertions then I wouldn't care so much. unfortunately your beliefs are contrary to what we see in reality, so yeah...
which gospel? only the ones that are included in the bible? which translation of the bible? what about the ones not in the bible? how do you deal with contradictions between the "accepted" books?
I don't despise your god anymore than I despise the Easter Bunny or the baby-delivering-stork. I don't find it rational to hate imaginary things...
The actual meaning for church is-The believers in Christ.
Corinthians 17/21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Its not in a building, its in us believers.
Deliberately try to make people doubt there saved sounds like something Satan would do. However I saw the part where he says he is talking about making nonbelievers doubt not believers. Still making people doubt there salvation (if they are already saved) is a trick that Satan likes to play.
Yes, it sounds like devil work, at first. But the Bible says "Examine yourselves; see if you're in the faith." We must make sure, constantly, that Christ is our everything, nothing else--and it is the responsibility of the pastor to preach this to the congregation.
If we let people assume they are saved, then go and do whatever they want, their blood is on our hands. God must be feared. The path is narrow and the gate is small--it's our duty to make sure people find it.
The reason (going to church) dos not represent Christ is because (Christ is a person) not a rid to a building to meet other believers. Church has flaws, Christ is perfect. Defining church as this video dos as (a building where believer assemble) Church is a place to assemble, Christ is an omnipotent God.
Football or Christ. A perfect way to get people to think about the importance of assembling together with believers rather than watching football. However assembling with other believers is not an accurate representation of Christ. If you are a christen then you already choose Christ whether at church or at home.
You dont choose football or Christ because it is always Christ, weather your at church or at home watching football or anywhere. Christianity is a full time thing. So the hidden questing hear is, what is more important to you, watching football or going to a building to be with other believers. Either way God is with us. Therefore watching football and being with other believers is not really the question either.
Amen, all professing Christians need to get serious, need to examine their faith to see if it is genuine saving faith. Who or what do you treasure the most - is it Christ?, if not repent of sin and completely trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
im afraid you're missing the point. would you rather watch football on sunday or go to church? It's not a sin to watch football but what would you rather do with your life?
I sorry to tell you this, but no one can go to church. They either are the Church, or not. The believer is the church, not the corporation, or the building, or the location.
We, are the Body of Christ, and Church Corporations have taken that away from us. Now they claim falsely to be the Church.
AMEN to Jesus; ok to Football (Col. 3:17)
wjcharlieee 3 months ago
"If they don't love Christ, get in their face", "make them fear" "yell at them" - yes, John. . . exactly what Jesus did. . .
thatbrian 3 months ago
@thatbrian Hi friend. I didn't hear John say you had to yell at them. However Jesus double whammied his disciples when he told them they must repent or likewise perish. Jesus didn't pull punches. You know that. Piper is passionate about people but nowhere near as much as he is about God.
JesusLoveMinistries 3 months ago
I'm Canadian, and therefore a hockey fan, when i became a christian a couple years ago i still was a fan of hockey. Sports are fine to entertian yourself with, just be careful, if you cry after a heart breaking defeat you likely have an idol. Idolitry might be the most common sin and its often hard to tell if it is sin, most everyone struggles with idolitry.
Jesus is Lord.
trevor8930 6 months ago
AMEN! Football was my god, my idol, my all until I came to know Jesus Christ as my LORD and SAVIOUR! Anything more important to a believer than Christ is an idol. Keep preaching the Lordship of Christ John Piper!
PhuketDave2 7 months ago
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youneekk 8 months ago
Football please. C`mon you Packers......
ilikezappa 8 months ago
the thing about this kind of passionate ranting, having listened to such for decades, is that it goes in one ear and out the other.
pay attention to ones own church and see this is the case
unless some poor sucker like me gets terribly legalistic and so livesin agony fdor the rest of his life.
does this man really think he is doing anything of value here.
God is so HOLY AND TERRIBLE that he despises not only sin but what we the religious do about it
Strefanasha 9 months ago
be honest.
the answer wil be football, or whatever your passion is.
i have no interest in football.
make it an issue, frighten the congregation?
this man is a legalist, this is will of the flesh
i know NOONE who loves Jesus, so being ranted at by this is useless
Strefanasha 9 months ago
@Strefanasha If you know no one who loves Jesus, you know no one who is saved. For Jesus said in John 8:42, "If God were your Father, you would love me." Jesus went so far as to say his followers must love him more than their own families (Matt 10:37). James 2:5 says God has promised the kingdom of heaven "to those who love him." 2 Timothy 3:4 indicts non-belivers for not being "lovers of God." And 1 Corinthians 16:22 says, "If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed."
clayhutchins 6 months ago
colossians 3:2-3 let heaven feel your thoughts, don't worry about things on earth. for you died to this life and your real life is hidden with Christ in God.
my all time favorite verse's which i think about when the going gets tough.
lightbrownpoop 9 months ago
@lightbrownpoop When you die; you die. Nothing happens (thankfully) after that.
Can you imagine anything more hellish than the jewish/christian/islamic heaven?
Eternity..........
What an idea.
Just get on with this life; make it the best you can for those around you, and stop putting your trust in myths
There is no god listening to you; there is no-one eternally invigilating your every move. Free yourself from the burden of this nonsense.
StrumstickJoe 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe i know it all sounds weird man...that one religion would have it right. but ever since i've become a Christian i've experienced peace of mind and hope. i don't understand everything about reality and God...but than again, who does? Christianity is a lifelong character development. Faith = not worrying about anything. and for the intellectual side, CS Lewis helps me out. it's not a mindless belief system where wishful thinking takes over. Christians question their beliefs often
lightbrownpoop 9 months ago
@StrumstickJoe Doubt is a huge part of Christianity.
lightbrownpoop 9 months ago
Rock on, John Piper! How I despise the cult of sports in America! Pastors even talk about football in church!
Yesica1993 11 months ago
very powerful short 3 1/2 minutes
whenturtlesfly 1 year ago
Revelations 17, 16.
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire .
Old testament influenced new testament
Your god is a bully of a character, that's all he is
darwinized 1 year ago
it certainly is a real problem in america, the idols, and I love that John is challenging the American church! Football is not inherently bad, but
mrsam1324 1 year ago
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shakira20848 1 year ago
It's hard sometimes when you're in a culture that would breathe out "Roll Tide" as soon and as easily as it would breathe out "God bless you." It's a cultural thing to go to church and the football game. Yet which one will matter in the end?
sayinslayer 1 year ago
I'm an Atheist, but I still enjoy John's videos. You can that he is the real deal.
mime454 1 year ago 16
@mime454 you are not an Atheist ... you are just a rebellion . You know that there is a God , You just dont want to confess that .
cedyr123 1 year ago
@cedyr123 Thank's for telling me how I feel about the origin of the universe, and of life, and of morality. I wish that I could be so perceptive about those whom I have never met or read anything about beyond a few sentences.
mime454 1 year ago
@mime454 Honestly I can never Judge your personality and how you feel about Origin of universe ,life ...... without knowing you , Even after knowing you it is hard to judge ...
However the notion of being an Athiest is not true regardless ; you know there should be a creator .They say we are carbon Dust ... I say Who created the carbon Dust ????
I am nothing ,Read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation a lot would be changed ....
Sorry If I'am offending you in anyway , But this is True !!!!
cedyr123 1 year ago
@cedyr123 I'm not offended. I have read the Bible, in fact, I used to be a young earth creationist. When I looked out to seek the evidence, and the clear east asian myth assimilation that is the bible (seriously, almost every aspect of the bible, from Noah to Jesus is some copy from another religion) I had to decide if I wanted to follow the superstitions of my parents, or provable facts. I chose Science,
As to who created carbon, imposing a complex origin begs a bigger question than it answers.
mime454 1 year ago
@cedyr123 Sorry ran out of characters. Regarding atheism being untrue/the Bible being true:
Let's say that Atheism isn't write. Why should we believe the Christian creation myth? Why not the Hindu one, or the Aztec one,
I bet I know the answer. Your parents/country is Christian, so you were indoctrinated into that religion.
Being a former christian, I have a feeling that you would answer this question with 'I had a revelation' or 'ask god to reveal himself to you.
Other religions are the same.
mime454 1 year ago
@mime454 Well I came across almost all the Myths from the Book of Darkness to Jesus VS Bali All are listed here : "kingdavid8 dot KOM" (check it out). As for the other point If Athleticism is not true why you need to chose Christianity ... Well you don't have to. I am not trying to "resell" you Christ or anything, My Major Argument is that there should be a Creator/God .Whether you find it in Buda or Christ this is another Argument.
BTW I live in a country where the majority is not Christian
cedyr123 1 year ago
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@mime454 and I never had something like a revelation' or 'asked god to reveal himself to you. Whoever tells you that ...run away from him as fast as you can ... However I cant deny that I feel that i am in self peace/ Joy sometimes ; But again Being a Christian doesn't Guarantee your best life now , I have seen a friends "true Christian" suffer the worst in life .....
cedyr123 1 year ago
@mime454 former christian? no such thing. you either have a relationship with God or you dont. Dont lie to yourself and to others
kyleharper16 11 months ago
nope, they are not all the same. the can't be because they all contradict one another. they are all mutually exclusive. check it out. do some research and you will find they are all vastly different especially in the details. Christianity is the one true religion because it comes from the only one true God who is from the beginning. All other 'religions' are false because they came after from the ideas of ungodly men who wanted their own way. All the cults (eg. momonism) came after Christianty.
thinkandbelieve 11 months ago
@mime454 Oh how I pray that you would not stop at John and seek who he is so passionate about. Oh that Christ would open your eyes to see Him! then you would see why John is the real deal, because he has seen the Christ!
sthapa3 6 months ago
What a dialema, I hate both but I suppose I could just tollerate that american football or puffs rugby as we call it, but i could never stomach this religious tosh.
ManxMistress 1 year ago
@chargentmurphy4077 Contrary to those whom are serving by law I preach the gospel for thirty two years now. Starting in Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, South Bronx, and the last fifteen years at a University in the south west.But I believe in liberty. If I stay home and watch the Price is Right I'm at perfect liberty. My salvation is not contingent on works.The fact that I can watch a football game and have liberty is what makes service liberty not law.Not like the guy who calls me to repentance
polopowers1 1 year ago
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sameeranajdyg 1 year ago
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To all those who are brand new Christians & those who have been justified by faith please DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS GARBAGE! This is a religous spirit & has led many to doubt their salvation, exchange their faith which satan is greatly after for a lie, to "prove" your saved via Washer, Piper, Macarthur & the like. Keep your Armor on please!!! I have videos that challenge these heretical teachings of TULIP Calvinism, Armenianism & the like The wrath Washer is exhibiting is not of God but of the flesh
PureGraceEvangelism 1 year ago
I am satisfied in Him but my satisfaction in Him does not give me a license to live a lukewarm life but to live my very best in everything...
24arcel 1 year ago 4
faggot
flabbyhabbybabby1 1 year ago
I love Jesus watching football,I have perfect liberty.And He loves to watch me relaxed and at peace in Him. I'm not anxious about who is saved and who is not because not one of His elect will be missed.I cannot help anyone be saved.That is giving guilt with no liberty.God will not miss one of His people but the Bears might miss a tackle
polopowers1 1 year ago
"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." 2 Peter 2:19-20
Wake up! You are NOT saved! Repent and believe the Gospel!
BrotherManasseh 1 year ago
@BrotherManasseh Your right while Piper promises liberty he delivers corruption.But you keep being self righteous telling people they are not saved.I'm so free in Christ knowing He did not make me a little lord to condemn others.Free! totally completely free.But the self righteous compare,go to church,do good works,making a show of not Chris tbut themselves.Go back to your vomit and wallowing in the mire
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 I'm not self righteous, I'm the vilest of men. I've no delusion as to where my Salvation comes from, I'm saved by Grace thru Faith. But I'm also not deluded into thinking I can then live as I like. I'm only free in the WILL of God. If I stray from His will then I fall from grace. I can do this by trying to be self righteous (works of the Law) or by turning Liberty into Liscense (Lawlessness) the Way is narrow, I walk it by God's grace. Any tree that doesn't bring forth fruit is lost
BrotherManasseh 1 year ago
It is possble to love Christ and love football, I guess when he said 'football' he was refering to the beautiful game. Love God; play football
FCRiverside 1 year ago
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What do you fancy Him to say or do to satisfy your requierements?
Life God and His body and blood in Eucharist- John 6:30-66, "I am the bread of life..."
and another movie proving that, do you have faith, what more do you want as prove, belive or not
youtube. com/watch?v =5SfXvMlb8u0
God bless you
JezusSlave 1 year ago
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TheBWministries 1 year ago
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check us out great sermon
TheBWministries 1 year ago
Football > jesus
fishstickscc 1 year ago
@fishstickscc prayin for you bro...
youwill09 1 year ago
0:33- Listen to what he says AGAIN AND AGAIN until it sinks home. "You have to make them SCARED that they are not SAVED." The single most disgusting 5 seconds I have ever seen on youtube. And the ESSENCE of religion.
FEAR.
JohnnieNaked 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked Piper's definitely not one to sugar coat it.
d3u1d4e 1 year ago
@JohnnieNaked well, it goes hand in hand with love. You must show what God hates, sin, in order for someone to understand God's love. If understanding that God hates your sin scares you, then so be it. Fear is the result, not the intention. If you truly understand the Gospel then you will see that you need not fear because God's love has conquered sin for those who believe in Christ as their substitute. Those who do not believe have good reason to be afraid. That is his point.
paint1487 1 year ago
Wow! Amen.... Lord help me Father to always put you first in my Heart over the football of my life...
JESUSIsGOD247 1 year ago
If you wanna take the logic behind that and apply it to any other subject, you can, it would be fair. I'm speaking to those who don't actually read the Bible and fully understand it. Those who don't believe and discredit it with simple logic, without having the full comprehension of it. I'm not a PhD, nor a proffesor and don't claim to be smarter than anyone here in this subject. I come from the point of view that I am ignorant compared to those who we see teach here, like John Piper.
littlewing1677 1 year ago
My 2 cents, it might not be worth much but here it goes. If you must speak of the Bible and it's validity, you must first study ALL of its origins, ALL its history, the way it's been translated through out history, verify it's contents against secular beliefs, read it for yourself, theorize and try to fully comprehend it in a very maticulate manner. And only then, when you have all of the facts, have the right to oppose it's teachings and claim to know why the Bible was written.
littlewing1677 1 year ago
littlewing ; By that logic , the only people who can challenge Darwinian Evolution are the people who fully understand the science that underpins it . Lets say , PhD in biology or higher . Anyone else is just blowing smoke . Fair ?
ilikezappa 1 year ago
@ilikezappa No, you just need to understand the basics;
BTW, Darwin's theory only further prove God;
He wrote the book "The Origin of SPECIES" not "The Origin of Life", His theory is that there was an initial KIND of animal that breed intergenusly, and the result was a same KIND of animal with different traits; not a completely different kind;
Darwin himself even said (paraphrased) that cats can only give birth to other cats, and that the same cats cant give birth to mice
Akromaos 1 year ago
Yes perhaps even an understanding of the basics would help there Akro . try talking to a biologist.
Football please . Not Cricket , which lasts an eternity , unlike anything else , despite what Johhny Piper will tell you ! He thinks that life came before matter , poor boy.
ilikezappa 1 year ago
@ilikezappa the laws of Physics say matter is neither created nor destroyed... so where did the matter come from, sir?
paint1487 1 year ago
Hi paint1487. In answer to your question ; That does not apply at the quantum level , where matter pops in and out of existence quite happily . The "laws of physics" have only applied since the big bang . What happened before is speculation , if there was a before .
ilikezappa 1 year ago
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ilikezappa
34 seconds ago @paint1487 Those who do not believe have no reason to be afraid , surely ?
( silly to be afraid of something you dont believe in ?)
The only thing we should fear is returning to a pre scientific dark age where people like Mr Piper held sway with his tales of torture and associated mumbo jumbo. He probably thinks boils are caused by impure thoughts. Back to the 14th Century Johnny !
ilikezappa 1 year ago
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ilikezappa 1 year ago
Football please. At least we can be confident that it exists
ilikezappa 1 year ago
@ilikezappa Thats sad: That footballs gonna burn son
Akromaos 1 year ago
This is why I am an aetheist...
Believe and love Christ or GoTo HELL!!!!
Why would anyone want to worship an invisible, vengeful fascist, who disguises the true aim of mind control with "believe in me so I may save you"? Only scared sheep follow these teachings... Those who give up their reason for imagined spiritual security are for the most part, weak minded and fearful of the unknown.
SergeofPower 2 years ago
Brother, please read one of the biographies of the Christ whom Piper seems to believe we should treasure above all else - it might change your mind/heart.
The amazing thing is that the invisible god became visible (John 1:14); and did so to save sinners (1 Tim 1:15) like you and me who reject him outright ( Romans 3:9-18) This behaviour doesn't seem consistent with the 'vengeful fascist' you describe.
Dare to use your reason to study the Bible with an 'open mind' - it is an amazing treasure.
rescued89 2 years ago
Mumbo, jumbo rescued89. I refuse to believe that an all seeing, all powerful invisible father figure is watching me and seeing everything I do. And, though you claim he loves me, he's willing to throw me in a pit of eternal torment, forever, if I don't believe in him... and you ask me to open my mind. I think you should realize that God was created by man to try and explain that which we do not understand. I just feel religion is a cop out. Rational faith trumps blind faith every time.
SergeofPower 2 years ago
I happen to believe there is plenty of evidence that can be rationally assessed supporting faith in the unseen God of the Bible - primarily the history of Jesus. I don't feel it is any more rational to refuse to believe a proposition simply because we dislike its implications than it is to blindly believe it because we wish it to be true; what matters is its truth. Hence my suggestion to read the Bible with an open mind.
Please feel free to message me if you'd like a go at rational discussion.
rescued89 2 years ago
What matters is truth. In that we can certainly agree. And a rational discussion is exactly what I'm after. So please, expound on this evidence that can be "rationally assessed to support faith in the unseen God"... but you must leave out the Bible, and every other so called holy book written by men. They are not a way to prove anything, since each Holy book has been changed and plagiarized from a previous incarnation or another.
Lets discuss. I leave the burden of proof upon you. Convince me.
SergeofPower 2 years ago
There is no way you can prove the existence of God any more than I can prove magical, invisible, ethereal fairies are sitting on my shoulders and advising me telepathically on my next choice of carbonated beverage. As soon as you can get past the delusion of an all powerful daddy figure keeping you hemmed in and soothing all your fears of death, then you can start to really wonder at this incredible universe we live in.
SergeofPower 2 years ago
Serge, there is no proof anyone can show you because as you said yourself, you REFUSE to believe there is a loving Father who sees and knows you. The "evidence" for God and His Son Jesus Christ is overwhelming to those who have eyes to see. (2 Corinthians 4 v4) I will be praying God opens yours.
mowhair88 1 year ago
cmon mowhair88. While I appreciate your sympathy for my "light" the FACTS of the matter are that you believe in something irrational & unprovable. More-over, you claim your faith based on quotes from a book written and re-written by world-ignorant men dead over 1000 years ago.
And yes, I REFUSE to believe in anything that cannot be proven by reason.
And what kind of eyes do you mean? Obviously not the ones that reveal things for what they are... they would be of no use to religion.
SergeofPower 1 year ago
plight
SergeofPower 1 year ago
You want to have a rational conversation? You seem to be fond of "reason" so lets discuss this since you want to leave out the Bible. How did you get your reason? It cant come from an atom, an atom has no reason. It cant come from an animal, an animal has no reason. So that rules out evolution. So what explains it other than a creation?
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
How did I get my reason? Well, it wasn't by relying on religion to answer all my questions about the universe! :) and I certainly believe there are animals other than humans that reason. Tests in attention, categorization, memory, spatial cognition, conciousness have determined that there are several species that use reason. But you in your hubris and pride believe that we are the only ones capable of it! Talk about a narrow view...
SergeofPower 1 year ago
Your stance on the Bible reflects your own dissbelief and therefore automatically assumes everyone deep down believes themselves to be the highest authority. I do hope you understand that the people who wrote the Bible, and subsequenly translatedit, did not believe that they were writing with their own authority but with God's. Paul is clear on this in his letters. Who would dare alter the words of God? Or on the other side, would God allow such a misstake to affect His written word on earth?
mowhair88 1 year ago
And you avoiding my question shows your ignorance. Why do you just "REFUSE" as you say, to not believe in something that "can not be proven by reason" when you believe in something that CANT EVEN EXPLAIN REASON? Dont ask for a conversation and then avoid it when you actually get one.
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
Science is working on explaining reason, and so far we are doing a much better job than creationists...I mean, If it were up to people like you, we would never question things and life would utterly stagnate. You say the Bible says it's because of so-and-so, so don't bother trying to figure it out. Again, shutting out your reasoning for a simple, easy, completely illogical explaination! Typical religious wackos. Question your world you ignorant louts!
SergeofPower 1 year ago
Okay if you guys are doing so much better then answer my question. What gives you "genius`" reason? Again cant be an atom, an atom has no reason. Do you think it just happened by chance? Because that wouldnt work either. Dont worry ill wait...
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
Genius reason? well, how about having a much more evolved brain than all the other animals. Evolution does a rather nice job at explaining that one.
And as far as chance goes, why not? Life is a mutable thing that learns as it grows, through trial and error. It's not extraordinary to suppose that something will become smarter and more adaptable after millions of years of evolution. So you see, it can work quite easily and logically if you give reason a chance.
SergeofPower 1 year ago
Can I suggest, if you are serious about discussing things further, that you read Randall Niles book What Happened to Me? Reflections on a journey
mowhair88 1 year ago
Evolution does a good job of explaining that, yes I know...I believe in evolution(as long as their is a creator). But how did a single atom that has no purpose or meaning become the "blue print" if you will, of something that has purpose and meaning? That is a contradicting force and you know it, but I am sure that you will come up with something to make yourself feel comfortable with your ignorance.
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
On that front, you've got me. I don't know for certain how we've turned into what we are. I am not absolutely sure. But I'm not going to claim I know the answers when there is no evidence to make a rational conclusion. My beef is with religious wacks that believe they have the answers... nay, KNOW the answers, to life's mysteries with no proof! When I ask for proof, they produce some "divine" text that espouses a belief system designed to control the masses.
just remember: Question everything!
SergeofPower 1 year ago
@mowhair88... do you believe everything you read in your version of the Bible? Do you believe that the men who wrote it, and re-wrote it, were writing with God's authority? I guess I should just take Paul's word that everything in it the Bible is true... cuz he said so... well, I guess no one has ever lied to you and you don't question things that don't make sense in the rational world. I guess ignorance really is bliss.
SergeofPower 1 year ago
By your logic no book in history has truth in it. As for my version of the Bible I assume you mean the translation and as for that I'm confident in it's integrity with the historical manuscripts which exist. The differences in translation do not cast any doubt on the message being preached. IF there were such a glaring misstake in translation from the historical manuscripts I am certain it would have been highlighted and brought to Christian believers attention.
mowhair88 1 year ago
@mowhair88. By my argument I make no such claim that there is no book in history that has truth in it. And as for your confidence in the integrity of "historical manuscripts", good show! Though I just wonder how you get along in life with such a lack of doubt. To live and preach in absolute certainty that your beliefs and religion, to the exclusion of all others is true... it just wreaks of intolerance and ignorance.
I've made some pretty solid points that have yet to be challenged. waiting...
SergeofPower 1 year ago
so your points against the Bible validity are that: it was written by men, as all books are; it was written long ago and so the copies we now have are not reliable because people have interfered with them. Is that a fair summary of your view of the Bible?
Can I ask why you think the Bible exists at all?
can you also remind me of your points which have been left unchallenged?
mowhair88 1 year ago
Q.1: The summary is correct but there are many more points I can add to those you've named.
Q.2:I believe the bible was written in an attempt to give meaning to humanity in an uncertain world. To establish a written standard for "moral" human behavior, as well as expound some far fetched ideas on how everything came to be.
Q.3: I'll just remind you to scroll up and re-read what's already been posted.
I apologise if I seem harsh, but I think religion breeds intolerance.
What do you think?
SergeofPower 1 year ago
I don't want to miss something out that was all I'll scroll up in a bit. You are not being harsh just stating your opinion. As for breeding intolerance I'm not sure I follow you. A teacher who notices someone has missunderstood has every right to try and correct them, that is not intolerance but teaching. We have had a discussion and have I not listened to your point of view and suggested mine? Where is the intolerance?
mowhair88 1 year ago
I'd like to hear your other points on the Bible. I'm not sure I can add much more to the answers I've already given to the first two points you have. I don't think it is a worthwhile stance to suggest that a book being old and written by men is then false. The world is not stupid and wasn't then and would have questioned the appearance of a book of morals springing up from nowhere with no authority.
Would you say the Bible is a single religious book?
mowhair88 1 year ago
you better pray for him...dont just say it...not trying to sound mean but I hate it when people say "ill pray for you" and never do it.
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
I'm with you there. Thank you for the challenge. I am praying.
mowhair88 1 year ago
No problem man
USMfootballplayer78 1 year ago
Do we love you tube and our ability to comment on the material than we do about Christ ! Another test that I fail with- out the sufficiency of His grace. Forgive me Lord.
firish51 2 years ago
i hate sports
Cshowbread 2 years ago 13
@Cshowbread
probally cuz u suck
keileo24 1 year ago
Do you love football more? That is the test?
I challenge that.
Can you love your enemy? Do you love yourself more than being obedient to Matt 5:44?
THAT is the true test of your faith Mr. Piper!
gsixty 2 years ago
that's "one of the tests" ..don't think you've got something on what he's saying. you don't.
sincerelytill 2 years ago
Grace buddy! Show some if you believe in it!
gsixty 2 years ago
gsixty, Titus says grace teaches us to live right. If you're not living right, you don't have grace.
jimmmmie 2 years ago
I made a trivial mistake. The obvious is anything that one loves more than Jesus is the test.
What I should have asked was, "WE send them to hell???"
It is the drawing of the Holy Spirit NOT what WE DO. A calvanist should know that.
Our objective is to seek Him with our whole heart and let His presence that resides on and around us to draw people.
My bad with the football comment Jimmmmie.
gsixty 2 years ago
@sincerelytill John is using football as an example...hes saying a true believer loves Jesus more than anything, and craves to seek Jesus christ Gods son.
JESMinix00 2 years ago
Yes, gsixty, Matt 5:44 is the test, & whether you love football more is the test. Why do you oppose this good preaching?
jimmmmie 2 years ago
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RobertBaral365 2 years ago
If I had to choose between Christ and Pornography I'd probably just switch off my 'puter and crack out my cribbage board
gforce527 2 years ago
i'm more of a rugby chap myself
jimbob15101510 2 years ago
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RobertBaral365 2 years ago
i love this because, if you did love them, you wouldnt want them to go to hell. reformed is the way. nopt too harsh at all. if you think this is harsh, you would hate the apostle and also isiaih and moses and everyone who has seen good in his full holiness.
immobilemilk 2 years ago
"You gotta make this an issue sunday after sunday so that they feel scared that they're not saved" - that's to harsh and not the right way to promote assurance...
Graserassen 2 years ago
Too harsh?? Not the right way to promote assurance?? What does Scripture say about this? 2Cor 13:5 "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?" 1Cor 11:28,31 "But a man must examine himself..." Philippians 2:12b-13 "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling..." Hmm...maybe it's not too harsh...maybe it's crucial, not only for assurance, but for our sanctification too.
Chriscjs 2 years ago 29
@Chriscjs Maybe harsh but it would work that is for sure.
Stuballs84 1 year ago
@Chriscjs SECONDED. We are to be assured of our salvation. What matters more that being sure of it?
TruthAlive 1 year ago
@Chriscjs You've taken Php 2:12b-13 out of context Chriscjs. It does not mean to determine the state of one's salvation. It is easy to get confused on this verse because of the dual meaning of "work out" in English. In Greek, this word means to work out something in the sense that you carry it out. It does not mean to figure out something. The Greek word for "work out" is in the present tense, so in addition it means to not only "work out" your salvation once but to continue to do it.
becauseHeisgood 11 months ago
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Fellow Tubelers,
John Piper is talking about Sunday Football. I thought the idea was to live in Christ 24/7. He is complaining about people not going to church. Why? Christ is not a Church, it is faith.
Jesus said, it is not what goes in your mouth, but what comes out. What entitles Mr. Piper to condemn people to Hell? That is being judgmental. It is of no use, for me, to listen to a hypocrite, that wants followers to enrich himself.
Indeed, I am Atheist, and am happy.
It be it.
4u2b1ib12 2 years ago
Football or Christ? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??!! FOOTBALL FTW!!
99minerkc 2 years ago
faggot!
agarces2 2 years ago
Can you give link to full sermon on dg web site,many thanks
paul
ACTS 26:18
PAULSAVEDBYGRACE 2 years ago
Football vs Jesus: Football wins hands down
Golf vs Jesus: Golf (by a hair unless Tiger is in the final round)
Sex vs Jesus: hahaha stupid question.
1n354a 2 years ago
Situational Priorities. If you were given the opportunity for a cold glass of water or a fistful of diamonds, you'd probably go for the diamonds, but if you were dying of thirst after 8 days in the desert your priorities would radically change. Today many stand in life not too worried about anything enjoying the pleasures of sin (diamonds) over the eternal satisfaction of Jesus. But when we die and kneel before our Creator who sees the secrets of the heart we will want the cold water of Christ
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
two things: I think that the idea that everything that is not Jesus is sin is a silly idea.
choosing between real and imagination will always side with real.
1n354a 2 years ago
Two things: I agree with point one, though it is all from Him in the first place so enjoying His gifts are a glory to Himself.
Point two.........Very True, just make sure that you know without a shadow of doubt. Because this is eternity we're speaking of. to be wrong about what is real by suppressing the obvious has eternal implications.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
yeah but if your god is real and is as loving as he supposedly is then I am not worried - he'll quickly realize that he didn't do enough to show me that he existed, he will apologize and we'll get on with it.
and you gotta think - what kind of parent abuses their child for all time just because they don't believe in them?
1n354a 2 years ago
The problem is, If God is real and is as loving as He supposedly is, then you have a LOT to be worried about my friend. His love does not negate justice. And His standard is infinitely more perfect and righteous than our own. You may see yourself as pretty good, but held up to His standard we all fall short. Another problem is that we are not by nature children of God (though we are His creation), we are by nature rebellious children of wrath on the backhand of God's justice in need grace.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
that is not love - punishing somebody eternally for the most minor of transgressions is not love - if that is the way that your god is then you need to reassess what the word "love" means...and while you are at it look up "justice" as well...
I'm not saying that that is not the way it is, just that you need to address the concepts honestly. Using the words "love" and "justice" to describe them is not being honest.
1n354a 2 years ago
This is where you come with the misconception of minor transgressions. The authority to judge what is important and what isn't morally is not up to us. If I squash a bug you probably won't be mad, if I kill the president I will disappear. Now if God considers hatred to be as murder in the heart, and we sin against Him in that sense, then it is no small deal and the punishment will be dictated by the seriousness of the crime in the Law Givers eyes, not our own. This is why Grace is Amazing
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
If your god considers hatred as murder in the heart then he should never have created it to begin with...the sin is with him.
1n354a 2 years ago
And His love was shown in this way; that while we were at our worst, either the religious hypocrite or one who flat out denies His existence living for self, Christ died for us anyway. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. If a person takes his enemy worthy of death in his own hands and saves that individual instead of inflicting what he/she deserves then it is a great mercy, and to turn around and call them friends, what greater love is that?
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
I thought that the blood sacrifice thing died out in the Bronze age...and an all knowing god having to commit suicide in order to save it's creations does seem kinda silly....I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it...that is not great love...that is insanity.
1n354a 2 years ago
I understand your view, but if you are going to say something about God as He has revealed Himself through the Bible, then represent Him rightly. Not based off of the biases that I have a feeling you obtained from many other influences. I've heard most of the arguments. God did not HAVE to do any of this. He did not create the sin, He did know it was coming, and it was apart of the plan He set before the foundation of the world that it would happen. But it was our will that inflicted it.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
if your god fostered an environment in which he knew sin would come to be then he is responsible for the formation of sin. does it really make sense that we are to blame for our sinful ways when the only reason that we have them is because your god intentionally planted those seeds?
I think that you should start holding your god more responsible for its actions...stop crucifying yourself and demand that your god man up and accept responsibility.
1n354a 2 years ago
That sounds very similar to a criminal attempting to blame the judge for his/her own actions. And to stand on the judgment seat over God, the just Judge of all the universe, will get you in no greater position than a criminal in civil court. But while you still have breath in your lungs you, for the time being, are under His patience to receive the acquittal by receiving the redemptive life changing (and trust me it has radically given me a very new outlook on life) good news
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
but the judge did not create the criminal where as your god supposedly created mankind. if the judge made the criminal a criminal then punished him for being a criminal (which is pretty much what your god is doing) then that is just silly.
and if the judge wanted the criminal to praise an worship him even though he made the criminal a criminal and then punished him...well that is even more silly.
1n354a 2 years ago
In the beginning God made everything good, including man and woman, but He also gave them a will of their own to worship Him by enjoying Him in a close relationship with Himself and by the gifts He had given to them. But with that we decided to turn and rebel. Thinking ourselves as more important than the Creator we fell pretty hard. So the criminal analogy still stands. In fact it is actually worse in the case that the Judge had created the person in the first place for good.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
I never get that about your breed of Christian - apologizing for your god - a god you claim created everything, including evil, death, pain, sin and the like.
Why don't you hold your god responsible for its own actions? Why do you feel the need to take the blame that is so obviously your god's to take?
I mean I'm all over the positive approach to life, but let's call a spade a spade...
1n354a 2 years ago
I still think you're missing the point. From what we see in Scripture, anything can be corrupted outside of God Himself as He is the source of goodness and pretty much whatever is right. You continually blame Him for evil, when it is a result of our own falling that evil, pain, death, and sin exist in the first place. He created us, but we are the one's who rebelled, not Him. If you are open to it, read the gospel of John to see who this Jesus really is so you won't just take my word for it.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
(cont) which places responsibility for said sin/evil squarely in it's lap and not that of man.
Again - don't drive yourself down because of your chosen deities faults and short comings. You are better than that...everybody is better than that. Hold your deity responsible for its actions and if it can't defend itself adequately then kick it to the curb and find another god who is more deserving.
1n354a 2 years ago
The point hat you are trying to make is only viable if you use absolute blind faith: give your god credit for all things "good" and no responsibility for anything "bad"...all the while claiming that it is omniscient. Then claim that man is responsible for all things "bad", because this fosters a need for your god. Ignore the fact that an omniscient god would have known that its creation would result in sin/evil....(cont)
1n354a 2 years ago
My friend what you are failing to see is that this does play out in reality, we see it all around us. Corruption and evil has plagued mankind for as long as we can see in history since the fall of Adam. To place this in the lap of the one who Created it all is like blaming the United Airlines for the terrorists inside of flight 175. Yes, God created us, and foreknew that good people would rebel, but He allowed this for His ultimate purpose of glorifying Himself by showing the ultimate (cont)
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
(cont) expression of love on the cross. Ultimately this is all about Him, we are just apart of His-story. For God to save a life is of great mercy, and for Him to give a rebel his due is of great justice. This is definitely by faith, but it is far from blind. What He has expressed in Scripture has played out in reality in my own life which is why I continue this dialogue. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble, which is why this is the gnat you are straining to swallow.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
that makes absolutely no sense at all - but if you are happy and don't do others harm with this dream of yours then so be it. happy sailing!
1n354a 2 years ago
Well, If you're looking for an educated understanding of this subject, I encourage you to take a look at the Bible itself. You will see that a lot of the misrepresentations that you presented were not as you precluded (as long as you read it in context). And you'll see that Jesus expresses a radical difference in Himself from religion. It was nice chatting with you on here though :-) Peace to you friend!
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
And He did not have to do any of this, but while we are more evil than we could ever fear, we are more loved than we could ever hope, and He died for us anyway. His challenge is to taste and see His goodness and grace. This gift is received by calling out for His mercy, and trusting in His promise and He will make you His own, and you will know it and your life will be different and you will have a hope that when your brain stops you won't. Please soften your heart toward Him.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
You are right. It is not the love of God that sends men to hell. It is the wrath of God who delares in His word that the soul that sins shall die. Furthermore, the bible tells us that God hates the wicked and has reserved the day of judgment for them.
1n354a All of your arguments appear strong in your own mind, but to those who seek not to explain or defend why God has willed things so, are at best petty and demonstrate that unless you repent, you too will find your place in the lake of fire.
fredrockt47 2 years ago
see the threat of living forever in a 14th century poem is not all that bad a deal - any poem that remains popular for that long has to be good...what is petty is the act of ignoring what is in front of you in order to maintain a blind faith in a bronze age superstition...is there not even a little voice in your head screaming out to think for yourself?
1n354a 2 years ago
No blind faith here, just blindness on your part. Petty?
Is there a voice screaming in your head asking you why do you fight so vigorously against a God whom you imagine does not exist? Is that insanity? No. It is proof that you will never be able to escape from the fact that there is a God and you will stand in His presence to answer for your crimes against His holiness. You supress the truth to your own eternal harm. Repent and believe the gospel or die in your sins. The choice is yours.
fredrockt47 2 years ago
No, there is a voice in my head wondering how you can so feverishly believe in something that has no evidence supporting its existence. The only thing you have is a poorly translated, highly edited, creatively interpreted collection of Bronze Age, Middle East writings that you seem to think are something more than they appear. The choice between imagination land and that which is right in front of my face is a clear choice...I hope you realize this before you waste too much more of your life.
1n354a 2 years ago
Fight on, but you wage a fools war against the God who you will give an account to. Be certain, your sins will find you out, and unless you repent and believe the gospel. You have been warned. The choice remains yours, but remember you are not promised tomorrow, but only a certain judgment after you depart this life. Fear the Lord! It is the beginning of true wisdom.
fredrockt47 2 years ago
Waste? I am a preacher of righteousness. It is what the Lord above would have me do. So no waste.
Again why do you kick against the prics? I think you know. You are unable to supress the truth completely, though you long to. The God you despise has written His Laws on your heart, and you will be called to give an account. Be assured of this. God is not mocked, what soever a man sows that to will he reap. You have sown sin, you will reap death unless you seek the Lord's forgiveness.
fredrockt47 2 years ago
see the thing is that I wouldn't have any problem with the Christian religion if it didn't just reek of snake-oil-salesman. if your beliefs dealt more with reality as opposed to imaginary, baseless assertions then I wouldn't care so much. unfortunately your beliefs are contrary to what we see in reality, so yeah...
1n354a 2 years ago
which gospel? only the ones that are included in the bible? which translation of the bible? what about the ones not in the bible? how do you deal with contradictions between the "accepted" books?
I don't despise your god anymore than I despise the Easter Bunny or the baby-delivering-stork. I don't find it rational to hate imaginary things...
1n354a 2 years ago
And He's given us far more than enough to know that He is there in a general sense.
Danny2Lisa 2 years ago
Excellent!
cindeemorgan 2 years ago
Test yourself: (A building that people call a church) or Christ.
truth96130 2 years ago 2
The actual meaning for church is-The believers in Christ.
Corinthians 17/21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Its not in a building, its in us believers.
truth96130 2 years ago
Deliberately try to make people doubt there saved sounds like something Satan would do. However I saw the part where he says he is talking about making nonbelievers doubt not believers. Still making people doubt there salvation (if they are already saved) is a trick that Satan likes to play.
truth96130 2 years ago
Yes, it sounds like devil work, at first. But the Bible says "Examine yourselves; see if you're in the faith." We must make sure, constantly, that Christ is our everything, nothing else--and it is the responsibility of the pastor to preach this to the congregation.
If we let people assume they are saved, then go and do whatever they want, their blood is on our hands. God must be feared. The path is narrow and the gate is small--it's our duty to make sure people find it.
Know what I'm saying?
slaveofChrist7 2 years ago
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truth96130 2 years ago
The reason (going to church) dos not represent Christ is because (Christ is a person) not a rid to a building to meet other believers. Church has flaws, Christ is perfect. Defining church as this video dos as (a building where believer assemble) Church is a place to assemble, Christ is an omnipotent God.
truth96130 2 years ago
Football or Christ. A perfect way to get people to think about the importance of assembling together with believers rather than watching football. However assembling with other believers is not an accurate representation of Christ. If you are a christen then you already choose Christ whether at church or at home.
truth96130 2 years ago
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You dont choose football or Christ because it is always Christ, weather your at church or at home watching football or anywhere. Christianity is a full time thing. So the hidden questing hear is, what is more important to you, watching football or going to a building to be with other believers. Either way God is with us. Therefore watching football and being with other believers is not really the question either.
truth96130 2 years ago
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truth96130 2 years ago
Amen, all professing Christians need to get serious, need to examine their faith to see if it is genuine saving faith. Who or what do you treasure the most - is it Christ?, if not repent of sin and completely trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
qptqpt 2 years ago 2
football!!!
moviemaker1865 2 years ago
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Football...
skywanderer42 2 years ago
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this tight ass needs to loosen up and watch some god damn FOOTBALL!!!
McVeeth 2 years ago
im afraid you're missing the point. would you rather watch football on sunday or go to church? It's not a sin to watch football but what would you rather do with your life?
ripefortheharvest 2 years ago 4
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definetly would rather watch football. religion is a joke.
McVeeth 2 years ago
Then what are you doing here?
vladiator34 2 years ago 3
I sorry to tell you this, but no one can go to church. They either are the Church, or not. The believer is the church, not the corporation, or the building, or the location.
We, are the Body of Christ, and Church Corporations have taken that away from us. Now they claim falsely to be the Church.
man4ourseason 2 years ago 4
Again, its like you've seen this video twice, and you're still here? why? go watch some football already, i wouldn't if it was damned by God though.
vladiator34 2 years ago
is it still okay to like football?
not sure how that fits into this.
mrdanface 2 years ago