Was about to point out an inconsistency in serving alcohol to people carrying guns, and people driving cars(or using any other "dangerous" thing)... But we don't assume someone with car keys in their pocket, and a drink in their hand, is suddenly going to go drive intoxicated.
I sympathize with some parts of the so-called liberal agenda. However, destroying the second amendment is not one of them. Not only is it impossible for the police to provide complete protection, what if Christian Coalition takes over and enacts laws that make "godless" people be slaves? Wouldn't you want to kill those "leaders"?
Those hippy protesters are seriously just sad....I used to be infuriated by them. But now.... I just feel deep deep pity. The protesting tree huggers outside that pizza shop don't have a clue. They cannot see through the seriously fucked up "reality" they have created for themselves. In their minds they think what their doing is noble. It's seriously brain washing. They're minds are not right. And for this reason they are the enemy. Its people like them that are responsible for our country bein
Thank God that I live in Maine... Those granola eating subaru driving queers are the problem. they dont want me to protect myself and my loved ones, are they insane! they can go back to their eco friendly Patchouli smelling dwellings and choke on a tofu burger...
Greasy fingers can make it harder to get your magazines loaded thus making it harder to defend yourself.
My condolences to those in California on your loss of open carry, hopefully you'll prevail and get your rights (and more, unloaded? Come on!) restored!
GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. retards are. these guys are doing their best so that you and i can have our RIGHTS. it's been two and three centuries since The Bill of Rights has been written. The state cannot change the Constitution. History repeats itself and dumb people reproduce dumber kid. The Brady Campaign should educate themselves and the public about the Constitution and The Bill of Rights. Guns aren't the problem. Uneducated people are.
im sure if a person was drunk and decided to shoot someone in there.... then he / she will be facing a wall of bullets............... what we call a idiot move.
This is the reason I hate it here in california, to many hippies who watch movies. Think shat like the old wild west is going to pop off. That's just the thing I like to do after I've had some beer and wine, get into a shootout. Jesus nothing but tree hugging, bible bumpin soccer momin, don't let my kids outside without bubble wrap hippies here anymore.
Our second amendment right should be cherished and protected at all cost. An armed government and an unarmed citizenry will inherently dispose the government to tyranny.
@JUSTACHIPN if exercising a right gets a right taken away.. then there's a bigger problem in CA than the people exercising their rights. CA is tyranny.
@Chris4400 These open carry retards FLAUNT are rights recklessly at coffee shops and McDonald's! These pussy retards just screwed us ALL! They ARE NOT responsible gun owners! and I'll bet don't belong to NRA or any other gun club that are fighting for are rights. They only contributed to screwing us all. What state will they fcuk over next?
Joe Zamudio never came close to 'almost shooting somebody'. His gun never left his holster. You can't 'almost shoot somebody' with your gun in a holster. If 'almost shooting someone' is done with guns in holsters, then cops go around 'almost shooting' somone all the time.
YEAH YEAH YEAH... That's it!!! Like she said, they'll get all drunked up and go out and shoot the town up!!! Everybody knows how those gun nuts are. After all wasn't those gun nut hillbilly's in Kentucky that turned the revolution around that gave them the right to stand outside that pizza shop and fight the Constitutional rights we now have? You go girl! After you destroy the 2nd see about getting rid of that pesky 4th or maybe that nasty 5th ammendment. Ah shucks, just get rid of them all.
Could not fit in. Look up Geraldo Rivera interviewed Joe Zamudio, one of the men responsible for subduing the crazed loon responsible for the shooting.
A lot has been said about the Giffords case, both here on TTAG and elsewhere. And like most emotionally-charged cases, when all is said and done, more’s been said, than done. And while a lot of people have speculated on how Arizona’s relatively unrestrictive laws regarding carrying a weapon might have played into this tragedy, nobody’s really come forward to talk about why nobody shot the scumbag, if everybody goes around armed.
But leave it to perennial media grandstander ace reporter media
I support those people against guns, the first step is to take guns away from good people, the second step is to take guns away from bad people, mmmm... WAIT¡, What if we just take guns away from bad people?¡¡ AAHHHHH THAT BE AWESOME¡¡
"Although tonight there was no trouble"...these people are SOOOO clueless!I'm sure they were shocked that responsible,law-abiding and decent gun owners exercising their 2nd amendment rights didn't explode and start a firefight.The Brady morons hate guns and hate the 2nd amendment..they are basically communists who don't deserve to be called americans.Good for you guys.
@sbisk No, I think criminals would probably still conceal their weapons even if policemen didn't have OCers produce their I.D's. Every single open carrier is a law abiding citizen so there is no need to fear them. No criminal in his right mind would open carry in this society because doing so would direct unwanted attention to his or her person. It's simple.
@DanZellas24 - i took anoath to respond when people call for help. No matter what the circumstances! Protection in the home isnt an issue for me. carrying a gun out in public is! But u miss the point. I face situations on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day, where i need my gun or other weapon to resolve a crime. For you to say a civilian faces more crime than a cop was just plain ignorant.
@DanZellas24 - " Civilians face even more crimes than u cops do." ARE YOU F'N NUTS!!!? Lets see, just yesterday (ONE SHIFT) here are the calls i responded to (the ones worth remembering that is); 1-Guy beat up his wife(he was a 3rd striker)2-Commercial burglary in progress (guy was armed)3-Roommate stabbed another roommate because he refused to pay rent (had to actually fight that guy)4-Some dude whacked out on PCP was destroying his house with a bat (another fight)...what did u do yesterday?
@shmoopify Set up 18 users in Active Directory and established 2 email mailboxes. Wrote up a purchase requsition for 4 copies of Microsoft Office 2010 Professional and also 2 laptops. Sat in on 2 conference calls with senior staff from corprate. Ate lunch. Came back from lunch. Let's see...oh, someone spilled soda on their keyboard. I had to replace it. Began writing up a BRD for VoIP. MUCH MORE STRESSFUL than a police officer's day LOL :D In all seriousness I couldnt do your job. And I CC in CA
@DanZellas24 -"Dont carry your gun...like police in the UK. Walk the walk" lol, i love it when people compare the daily life of a civilain to that of a police officer on duty. Also, the polie in the UK dont face NEARLY the types of things US cops do
@DanZellas24 This is what the brady nuts can't stand. And, even if you can't prove crime has gone down BECAUSE there are more guns/permits, you sure can't say it's gone UP BECAUSE there's more guns/permits. Bradyfail. :( Meanwhile I just got home from this month's South Bay Open Carry dinner event. No Bradynuts outside this time. Good showing. Good food, good people.
@DanZellas24 - all i can say is the people you say you know personally that were attacked /killed is a rarity!! In my almost 15 yr career, i can honestly say I know of maybe 1 or 2 violent weapon crimes against a random person out in public. It just doesnt happen enough to warrant carrying a gun. Even when something seems as if it was a random crime, theres usually some connection between suspect and victim (usually criminal activity).
@DanZellas24 - violent crime is different than property crime. Its not sympathy for criminals. My earlier point about it being your kid that gets killed wasnt the right direction i wanted to go. my bad. My issue is more with public safety with thousands of guns on the street. I certainly believe if a person threatens someone with a weapon, they get what they deserve! It's the people nearby that are not involved that are sudden;y put in danger as well.
@DanZellas24 - so killing a person (possibly a kid who could still turn things around in life) is worth it to you over a property crime? What if it was your 15 yr old kid who carjacked someone because he was hanging around the wrong people for a bit , but you knew he was a good kid and someone shot him over a car?! That would be ok with you??
@DanZellas24 - Well, im sorry but the stats as they speak of them just dont ring true to what occurs where i work. Its hard for me (someone who lives it, not studies it) to believe their stats when it doesnt apply to the truth as i live it. Although here in California, the OC laws are probably way different than your community. Basic principles still apply.
furthermore, you make it sound as if becuase there arent very many carriers, accidental vicitims isnt anything to worry about. What if OCing became really popular and most people began carrying? Its not ok then?
@DanZellas24 - what r your fatcs? is it the 2 million "self defense" incidents that saved lives??? where does it state that?? and i bet that includes police too
@DanZellas24 - same as if it was one scary guy instead of 3? Why is it if a cop responded by shooting, he would be fired and prosecuted and sued!? You proved my point Now we will have civilians, shooting their guns, in non life threatening situations, out in public areas. I'll tell you what, if my kid got shot by accident because you wanted to save you wallet, there would be hell to pay! I dont think the risk out weighs the "self defense" need. thats my stance
@DanZellas24 -(its bisk. for some reason the author blocked me) Anyway, why would you say it doesnt matter what i consider is "gun worthy"? I'm a cop. You don't think my opinion matters on that subject? I hate when people think they know better than i do regarding something i do everyday. Anyway, answer this if you would; 3 "scary" guys surround you and demand ur wallet or they kick your ass. Do u pull ur gun to scare them, or just give ur wallet? If u pull gun and they dont run, do u shoot?
@DanZellas24 - Im sorry, but i firmly believe that MOST (i'd even say up to 98%) of police officers have a form of integrity not matched by that of a civilian. Gun safety,management and knowledge is what we live,eat and breathe every day! Same with high stress critical incidents. If we arent physically training for them, we are mentally processing them everyday. The what ifs go through my mind on/off duty 24/7. In my opinion thats what it takes to safely walk around with a gun in public.
@DanZellas24 - sure there are plenty of punches or pushes, but rarely anything i would consider even close to being worthy of the use of a gun for protection. Now if you give a gun to a civilian. One who has very little if any training in critical stress situations. Or one who hasnt had a thourough background check. Or one who might go out a bar with his buddies and not posses the integrity to either leave the gun at home or keep it holstered after drinking...etc,. Multiply that by thousands
@DanZellas24 - if that stat is correct, what do you think the stat would be if that gun is now out about in public passing thousand of people a day? Again, remember im not so much "anti guns" as i am "lets be smart about how we do it". Being a cop in a large city, i know what crimes occur here. I RARELY RARELY hear of a crime in which a completely innocent person is randomly attacked with violence that would require a weapon to escape.
@DanZellas24 - Just because the chief didnt say that fear of capture or harsher punishment isnt part of the reason, does that mean it isnt? As far as the stats go, you heard how slanted the tests were didnt you? Those stats were about "crime level", and done in states that were having different "issues" at the time. Something hit me whn Helmke said that if you have a gun in ur house, the residents of that house are 22 times more likely to be a victim of THAT gun than a suspect. (continued)...
@DanZellas24 (lastly part 4) BY NO MEANS do i agree with the anti gun panel when they say no guns at all! I AM PRO GUNS IN YOUR HOUSE!!!! However, arming civilians out in public when some can have good training and some can have 0 training is not smart. The fact that MOST will have NO training and especially no experience in critical stress situations is NOT GOOD either. I dont want my family shot because they were in the background line of fire of some OCer panicing to get a shot off!
@DanZellas24 - (oops part 3)- CCW does nothing except make the bad guys make sure they get the drop on you. CCW will do nothing but get you killed when you are faced against a gun already pointed at you. At best you can shoot at them when they are running away, and lets all hope that every CCW person practices shooting at moving targets a lot! If your OCing here in Ca without a loaded gun, forget it!
@DanZellas24 - THATS JUST MY DEPT FOR ONE MONTH!!! Anyway, my arguement isnt that people shouldnt have guns. I believe every home should have a gun for defense. I just dont think they belong in the streets. The other arguement by your side was that a lot of defense uses of guns arent reported because the user is afraid to get in trouble for illegal carrying! Well thats means they are breaking the law doesnt it? Doesnt that make them a criminal to some degree?
@DanZellas24 - (part 1)ok, i watched ALL 13 of those videos. I certainly dont see (factual wise) how your side "destroyed" the others. Obviously you think so because you are pro gun. Anyway, I think they all had great arguements. Although as an officer who faces a lot of this stuff everyday, i can tall you a few things seemed off to me. Just at my Dept. alone in the month of Jan. there were 13 assaults on officers. 6 of those were attempts by the suspect to gain control of the officers gun.
@DanZellas24 -for you to deny that people seeing other "non police" people out in public with guns makes them nervous is ridiculous! Why then do we get called all the time by those same people to come "check out" this person with a gun? The fact you cant understand the difference between people being nervous cuz they see your gun and people not being nervous because they dont see ur gun is also amusing.
@DanZellas24 -for you to deny that people seeing other "non police" people out in public with a gun makes them nervous is ridiculous! Why then do we get called all the time by those same people to come "check out" this person with a gun? The fact you cant understand the difference between people being nervous cuz they see your gun and people not being nervous because they dont see ur gun is also amusing.
@DanZellas24 - so youre saying that when "defensive"gun uses occur,most dont get reported? What facts do you have to support that? Seems to me if a decent citizen who is OCing is put into a situation where they need to use their gun for defense, that would be something they (being a good citizen and all) should report to the police!? Plz, with a cop its MUCH more unlikely. Im sure ur chances to get struck by lightening are higher. With that in mind,why dont you walk around in a rubber suit then?
CA is broke! And Rep Anthony J. Portantino is wasting tax payers money on this unconstitutional bill. He knows this will be killed in committee or overturn by a higher court. Why? The funny thing is all of the examples they use for gun violence were committed by criminals and not one of those examples were committed by an open carry law abiding citizen. Oh but all of those Police officers who shoot unarmed citizens are OK I guess, you never see one Brady person trying to take guns from Police.
@sbisk People who open carry are do it legally. One of the main points we gun advocates like to get out to people is "criminals don't open carry." They will always go around, disobey the law, and do what they want. What criminal in his right mind would display his firearm illegally? (criminals aren't even allowed to have a firearm) So, if you see "Joe Shmoe" openly carrying his firearm, you can assume he's one of the good guys, because "criminals don't open carry"
@yoitsspiderman - so here in Ca. an officer CANNOT force anyone OCing to produce an ID in order to identify them. You dont think that the criminals will catch on to that being a perfect way to get out of having contacts with the police?! Or at the very least a way to not have to ID themselves when asked?
@DanZellas24 - "Why dont people get bothered b/c u officers OC?" Yet another ridiculous comment. People understand why cops have guns. They know that the police are there to help. When they see just some "joe shmoe" walkin around with a gun it is unnerving. Why is that so hard to understand for you? Imagine some leathered out, tattoo'd up biker walking into McDonalds strapped with a .45 If you cant see how that would intimidate some people then youre not worth even discussing this with
@DanZellas24 -Ok i'll spell it out for you........Give me an example of when OCing would help you? Your rationalizing is like a 3rd grader......"The same people that are "bothered" by guns are not bothered at all when they sit next to a concealed carrier. It's just funny as hell" DUH! BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THEY HAVE A GUN!
@DanZellas24 - " I dont know what u mean by "OCing would be come into play." Theres my point! You wouldnt know when it should or shouldnt come into play. All you care about is exercising a right, not about the whole picture as it pertains to society.
Imagine that , there was no trouble...hahahahaha DUH! who is going to mess with a significant amount of armed citizens attempting to enjoy themselves and practice their rights to assemble and to carry. The 2nd amendment says the people have the RIGHT to bear arms and that right SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. It is usually a wacko that shoots people not a law abiding citizen.
@DanZellas24 - they also dont attack cops because of the likelyhood of getting caught. They know that attacking a cop is put on the highest priority to be dealt with. But random acts of violence plain and simply just dont occur that often (except in "gangbanger world"). ESPECIALLY ones that would necessitate the use of a gun to save oneself. So I know exactly what you think would necessitate the use of a gun, give me a scenerio where OCing would be come into play.........?
@DanZellas24 - How is an OCer who is confronted with a "bad guy" pointing a gun at their face, going to draw their weapon, load the mag and rack a round point and shoot all before the "bad guy" simply pulls the trigger?! criminals dont attack the police in this manner because not only do they not want that fight, but they know its a fight that more than likely, they will lose.
@DanZellas24 - First off when youre confronted by a criminal, do as they say. The chances of ever actually being confronted by one is rare and even if it does happen, chances are he will already be armed and pointing the gun/knife at you. However, introducing your own attempt to "get the drop" on them with a gun will just get you shot/stabbed. Also,(imo) the 2A was meant to arm militias against a government "gone bad" and in defense of life and property in the home.
@DanZellas24 - But thats what the "OC movement" is all about. Spreading the word. "Use it or lose it". So in theory if it goes the way you all want, most people will have guns in public. So parents need to be outside with their kids all day while they are playing with their neighborhood friends?
@sbisk If your a responsible parent you already are in the streets with your kids as they play. This is how you make sure they do not get in trouble and protect them if need be. Holy crap, being a responsible parent does not just mean paying for bills and clothes, it means taking care of your children too.
@bigjohn98665 -oh so i see... you think its irresponsible to let your kids play with their neighborhood friends outside their houses without parents sitting outside watching over their every move. Ya, your thinking rationally.
@sbisk I'm quite rational...it's idiots like your self that think it is the job of the babysitter/school teachers/counselors etc... to raise your kids and wonder what happened when they are involved in some bad stuff because you couldn't be bothered with keeping an eye on them. As a parent I cannot imagine not being involved with my child and whom he hangs out with. It's my job to see he is raised up right and knows right from wrong and to make good decisions. maybe I'm just stupid though.
@DanZellas24 -The other point is (at least here in CA), the police are not allowed to ID an OCer. If you dont think good crooks will start to use that as a way to go about their day without being ID'd by the police, youre mistaken. Example; "Guy" OCing, walking down your neighborhood st. while your kids and others are playing out front. You call the police (or they happen by) and stop the guy. He refuses to show ID, cop leaves. 10 min later a kid is taken and turns out guy was a sex registrant
@DanZellas24 - Again, youre missing my point. My concern is with a country where everyone carries a gun, the chances of "accidents" occurring goes WAY up. Whether it be an OCer over-reacting, or gangbangers jumping an OCer for their gun, cop shooting an OCer who is trying to protect themselves or others, etc....
@DanZellas24 -IF all of what you said really occurred, the you are an EXTREME rarety. I'm sorry for your friends and family that had to experience that. However, having a gun wouldn't have necessarily helped things. In fact, it might well have made the murder # higher. My only point is there are other issues to think about than just protecting yourself against a rare possiblity. Open Carry presents many concerning issues for police, and society in general.
@DanZellas24 -Ya, because errors cant be made when split second ,life threatening decisions need to be made. Anyways, i would be willing to bet that you dont know a single person (personally) that was involved in a situation where having a gun would have saved their life or that of another. Bytheway, its not so much a "i should only be armed" mentality as it is a "The more guns in peoples hands the more chances of injury to others" mentality.
@DanZellas24 -hmmmm lets see, who deals in this type of reality more? You or a police officer??? At what point do you people say, "you know, this guy might have a different opinion than me, but he is a cop and deals with this stuff on a daily basis, so maybe i should be a bit more open to his side". Tell me, when doctors give advice on how to handle an illness, do you tell them they are all wrong and your way is the only way? Unbelievable. Its like talking to a 15 yr old who knows everything!
@DanZellas24 - I happen to be a police officer in the city im refering to. So I think i know what types of crime happen here. And you actually proved my points with your own arguements. Yes, on occassion cops kill innocent people. Imagine a nation full of people (with less training and experience) carrying guns around. The more people that carry guns, the more chances of the scenerios i described occurring. Also, i never said people should have guns at home.
@DanZellas24 - u r missing my point.The chances of being a random victim of a violent crime that would necessitate a gun to resolve are RARE!The chances of an accident involving a gun if everyone OC'd are much more likely..ie..cops showing up to a man with a gun call and seeing multiple people with guns out "trying to help" and an OCer gets shot. OCer uses his/her gun when they think they need it and miss their target, killing an innocent person in the background. Just a few of the possibilities
@DanZellas24 -Absolutely wrong! In the city where i live and work (in the top 10 largest cities in the nation), there is RARELY an instance where someone is the random victim of a violent crime out in public. Yet alone the victim of a crime they would have needed a gun to survive. And your attempt at making it sound as if citizens need guns as badly as police do is lame. They go to many calls during a shift that actually warrant the possible use of a gun. You sit on your couch
I'm 18 and work for the Michigan Army National Guard. Since I am not eligible yet for a CCW I have no choice but to carry openly if I do carry at all.
@agarcia531 Be careful.. open carry will get you a lot of attention... and definitely don't do it in a "school zone" (which is a LOT of places.. especially in LA.)
Was about to point out an inconsistency in serving alcohol to people carrying guns, and people driving cars(or using any other "dangerous" thing)... But we don't assume someone with car keys in their pocket, and a drink in their hand, is suddenly going to go drive intoxicated.
Ducky1138 3 weeks ago
I sympathize with some parts of the so-called liberal agenda. However, destroying the second amendment is not one of them. Not only is it impossible for the police to provide complete protection, what if Christian Coalition takes over and enacts laws that make "godless" people be slaves? Wouldn't you want to kill those "leaders"?
musicphan1 2 months ago
Those hippy protesters are seriously just sad....I used to be infuriated by them. But now.... I just feel deep deep pity. The protesting tree huggers outside that pizza shop don't have a clue. They cannot see through the seriously fucked up "reality" they have created for themselves. In their minds they think what their doing is noble. It's seriously brain washing. They're minds are not right. And for this reason they are the enemy. Its people like them that are responsible for our country bein
kuglebugle 2 months ago
Thank God that I live in Maine... Those granola eating subaru driving queers are the problem. they dont want me to protect myself and my loved ones, are they insane! they can go back to their eco friendly Patchouli smelling dwellings and choke on a tofu burger...
BudtheMainah 4 months ago
Yep, that's what I like to do....go get all liquored up and start hootin' and hollerin' and shootin' up the town! Eeeeehaw! Are people THAT stupid?
RythmandStrings 5 months ago
Open carry is a fundamental right. That's all.
Nu13th 5 months ago
pizza and pistols. love it!
ray7685 6 months ago
Not a safe situation ! Looks pretty Damn safe to Me, I'll have a slice of pepperoni and a Heineken, Please !
popson45 6 months ago
@popson45 lol :)
Chris4400 6 months ago
@popson45
Greasy fingers can make it harder to get your magazines loaded thus making it harder to defend yourself.
My condolences to those in California on your loss of open carry, hopefully you'll prevail and get your rights (and more, unloaded? Come on!) restored!
cepler 1 month ago
GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. retards are. these guys are doing their best so that you and i can have our RIGHTS. it's been two and three centuries since The Bill of Rights has been written. The state cannot change the Constitution. History repeats itself and dumb people reproduce dumber kid. The Brady Campaign should educate themselves and the public about the Constitution and The Bill of Rights. Guns aren't the problem. Uneducated people are.
lengxiong72 7 months ago
can you still open carry in Commiefornia? I heard that AB144 passed.
ryantwiggsmith909 7 months ago
im sure if a person was drunk and decided to shoot someone in there.... then he / she will be facing a wall of bullets............... what we call a idiot move.
alen209 7 months ago
There's nothing wrong with having a gun open carry con sealed or in a closet it's our god and government given wright
dylan8495 8 months ago
LOL LOOK AT THOSE SLAVES BEGGING THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE AWAY THEIR RIGHTS.
resistandexist100 8 months ago 4
This is the reason I hate it here in california, to many hippies who watch movies. Think shat like the old wild west is going to pop off. That's just the thing I like to do after I've had some beer and wine, get into a shootout. Jesus nothing but tree hugging, bible bumpin soccer momin, don't let my kids outside without bubble wrap hippies here anymore.
BtW looking forward to an open carry event.
BigRichT86 8 months ago 10
OPEN CARRY MONTH STARTS JUNE 1ST! Join us as gun owners from all over California open carry. Video link with more info /watch?v=Ab2fG6gnkdE
Captainslav 8 months ago
Our second amendment right should be cherished and protected at all cost. An armed government and an unarmed citizenry will inherently dispose the government to tyranny.
MSCompuServ 9 months ago
@JUSTACHIPN if exercising a right gets a right taken away.. then there's a bigger problem in CA than the people exercising their rights. CA is tyranny.
Chris4400 9 months ago
@Chris4400 These open carry retards FLAUNT are rights recklessly at coffee shops and McDonald's! These pussy retards just screwed us ALL! They ARE NOT responsible gun owners! and I'll bet don't belong to NRA or any other gun club that are fighting for are rights. They only contributed to screwing us all. What state will they fcuk over next?
JUSTACHIPN 9 months ago
If it is not a safe situation why are those Brady people just waiting around to get shot?
kelvinjavier 9 months ago
Why are they in the pizza parlor?! I would be standing around next to the Brady Bunch lunatics.
iLikeToitools 9 months ago
Joe Zamudio never came close to 'almost shooting somebody'. His gun never left his holster. You can't 'almost shoot somebody' with your gun in a holster. If 'almost shooting someone' is done with guns in holsters, then cops go around 'almost shooting' somone all the time.
kelvinjavier 9 months ago
Protect our rights, why are people scared
fireinthehole21 10 months ago
A gun is a tool Marion, no better or no worse than the man using it.
Rick123691 10 months ago
YEAH YEAH YEAH... That's it!!! Like she said, they'll get all drunked up and go out and shoot the town up!!! Everybody knows how those gun nuts are. After all wasn't those gun nut hillbilly's in Kentucky that turned the revolution around that gave them the right to stand outside that pizza shop and fight the Constitutional rights we now have? You go girl! After you destroy the 2nd see about getting rid of that pesky 4th or maybe that nasty 5th ammendment. Ah shucks, just get rid of them all.
outlawracer2229 11 months ago 12
Could not fit in. Look up Geraldo Rivera interviewed Joe Zamudio, one of the men responsible for subduing the crazed loon responsible for the shooting.
BigTVideos 11 months ago
A lot has been said about the Giffords case, both here on TTAG and elsewhere. And like most emotionally-charged cases, when all is said and done, more’s been said, than done. And while a lot of people have speculated on how Arizona’s relatively unrestrictive laws regarding carrying a weapon might have played into this tragedy, nobody’s really come forward to talk about why nobody shot the scumbag, if everybody goes around armed.
But leave it to perennial media grandstander ace reporter media
BigTVideos 11 months ago
I support those people against guns, the first step is to take guns away from good people, the second step is to take guns away from bad people, mmmm... WAIT¡, What if we just take guns away from bad people?¡¡ AAHHHHH THAT BE AWESOME¡¡
elenlied 1 year ago
"Although tonight there was no trouble"...these people are SOOOO clueless!I'm sure they were shocked that responsible,law-abiding and decent gun owners exercising their 2nd amendment rights didn't explode and start a firefight.The Brady morons hate guns and hate the 2nd amendment..they are basically communists who don't deserve to be called americans.Good for you guys.
solocamlad 1 year ago
@gunguy54 unfortunately, here in the bay area open carry is practically impossible. =/ i would love to conceal carry.
yoitsspiderman 1 year ago
@sbisk No, I think criminals would probably still conceal their weapons even if policemen didn't have OCers produce their I.D's. Every single open carrier is a law abiding citizen so there is no need to fear them. No criminal in his right mind would open carry in this society because doing so would direct unwanted attention to his or her person. It's simple.
yoitsspiderman 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 Sir, all of those crimes occured on private property, where he has absolutely no issue with someone having a gun.
francobobfred 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - i took anoath to respond when people call for help. No matter what the circumstances! Protection in the home isnt an issue for me. carrying a gun out in public is! But u miss the point. I face situations on a daily basis, sometimes multiple times a day, where i need my gun or other weapon to resolve a crime. For you to say a civilian faces more crime than a cop was just plain ignorant.
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - " Civilians face even more crimes than u cops do." ARE YOU F'N NUTS!!!? Lets see, just yesterday (ONE SHIFT) here are the calls i responded to (the ones worth remembering that is); 1-Guy beat up his wife(he was a 3rd striker)2-Commercial burglary in progress (guy was armed)3-Roommate stabbed another roommate because he refused to pay rent (had to actually fight that guy)4-Some dude whacked out on PCP was destroying his house with a bat (another fight)...what did u do yesterday?
shmoopify 1 year ago
@shmoopify Set up 18 users in Active Directory and established 2 email mailboxes. Wrote up a purchase requsition for 4 copies of Microsoft Office 2010 Professional and also 2 laptops. Sat in on 2 conference calls with senior staff from corprate. Ate lunch. Came back from lunch. Let's see...oh, someone spilled soda on their keyboard. I had to replace it. Began writing up a BRD for VoIP. MUCH MORE STRESSFUL than a police officer's day LOL :D In all seriousness I couldnt do your job. And I CC in CA
francobobfred 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -"Dont carry your gun...like police in the UK. Walk the walk" lol, i love it when people compare the daily life of a civilain to that of a police officer on duty. Also, the polie in the UK dont face NEARLY the types of things US cops do
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 This is what the brady nuts can't stand. And, even if you can't prove crime has gone down BECAUSE there are more guns/permits, you sure can't say it's gone UP BECAUSE there's more guns/permits. Bradyfail. :( Meanwhile I just got home from this month's South Bay Open Carry dinner event. No Bradynuts outside this time. Good showing. Good food, good people.
Chris4400 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - they dont care because it isnt needed!
shmoopify 1 year ago
I love open carry. I prefer concealed carry.
gunguy54 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - FACT is, its a small minority of people that carry. There's a reason for that.
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - still no reason to resort to the 1800's
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - all i can say is the people you say you know personally that were attacked /killed is a rarity!! In my almost 15 yr career, i can honestly say I know of maybe 1 or 2 violent weapon crimes against a random person out in public. It just doesnt happen enough to warrant carrying a gun. Even when something seems as if it was a random crime, theres usually some connection between suspect and victim (usually criminal activity).
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - violent crime is different than property crime. Its not sympathy for criminals. My earlier point about it being your kid that gets killed wasnt the right direction i wanted to go. my bad. My issue is more with public safety with thousands of guns on the street. I certainly believe if a person threatens someone with a weapon, they get what they deserve! It's the people nearby that are not involved that are sudden;y put in danger as well.
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - so killing a person (possibly a kid who could still turn things around in life) is worth it to you over a property crime? What if it was your 15 yr old kid who carjacked someone because he was hanging around the wrong people for a bit , but you knew he was a good kid and someone shot him over a car?! That would be ok with you??
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - Well, im sorry but the stats as they speak of them just dont ring true to what occurs where i work. Its hard for me (someone who lives it, not studies it) to believe their stats when it doesnt apply to the truth as i live it. Although here in California, the OC laws are probably way different than your community. Basic principles still apply.
shmoopify 1 year ago
furthermore, you make it sound as if becuase there arent very many carriers, accidental vicitims isnt anything to worry about. What if OCing became really popular and most people began carrying? Its not ok then?
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - what r your fatcs? is it the 2 million "self defense" incidents that saved lives??? where does it state that?? and i bet that includes police too
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - same as if it was one scary guy instead of 3? Why is it if a cop responded by shooting, he would be fired and prosecuted and sued!? You proved my point Now we will have civilians, shooting their guns, in non life threatening situations, out in public areas. I'll tell you what, if my kid got shot by accident because you wanted to save you wallet, there would be hell to pay! I dont think the risk out weighs the "self defense" need. thats my stance
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -(its bisk. for some reason the author blocked me) Anyway, why would you say it doesnt matter what i consider is "gun worthy"? I'm a cop. You don't think my opinion matters on that subject? I hate when people think they know better than i do regarding something i do everyday. Anyway, answer this if you would; 3 "scary" guys surround you and demand ur wallet or they kick your ass. Do u pull ur gun to scare them, or just give ur wallet? If u pull gun and they dont run, do u shoot?
shmoopify 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - Im sorry, but i firmly believe that MOST (i'd even say up to 98%) of police officers have a form of integrity not matched by that of a civilian. Gun safety,management and knowledge is what we live,eat and breathe every day! Same with high stress critical incidents. If we arent physically training for them, we are mentally processing them everyday. The what ifs go through my mind on/off duty 24/7. In my opinion thats what it takes to safely walk around with a gun in public.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - sure there are plenty of punches or pushes, but rarely anything i would consider even close to being worthy of the use of a gun for protection. Now if you give a gun to a civilian. One who has very little if any training in critical stress situations. Or one who hasnt had a thourough background check. Or one who might go out a bar with his buddies and not posses the integrity to either leave the gun at home or keep it holstered after drinking...etc,. Multiply that by thousands
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - if that stat is correct, what do you think the stat would be if that gun is now out about in public passing thousand of people a day? Again, remember im not so much "anti guns" as i am "lets be smart about how we do it". Being a cop in a large city, i know what crimes occur here. I RARELY RARELY hear of a crime in which a completely innocent person is randomly attacked with violence that would require a weapon to escape.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - Just because the chief didnt say that fear of capture or harsher punishment isnt part of the reason, does that mean it isnt? As far as the stats go, you heard how slanted the tests were didnt you? Those stats were about "crime level", and done in states that were having different "issues" at the time. Something hit me whn Helmke said that if you have a gun in ur house, the residents of that house are 22 times more likely to be a victim of THAT gun than a suspect. (continued)...
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 (lastly part 4) BY NO MEANS do i agree with the anti gun panel when they say no guns at all! I AM PRO GUNS IN YOUR HOUSE!!!! However, arming civilians out in public when some can have good training and some can have 0 training is not smart. The fact that MOST will have NO training and especially no experience in critical stress situations is NOT GOOD either. I dont want my family shot because they were in the background line of fire of some OCer panicing to get a shot off!
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - (oops part 3)- CCW does nothing except make the bad guys make sure they get the drop on you. CCW will do nothing but get you killed when you are faced against a gun already pointed at you. At best you can shoot at them when they are running away, and lets all hope that every CCW person practices shooting at moving targets a lot! If your OCing here in Ca without a loaded gun, forget it!
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - THATS JUST MY DEPT FOR ONE MONTH!!! Anyway, my arguement isnt that people shouldnt have guns. I believe every home should have a gun for defense. I just dont think they belong in the streets. The other arguement by your side was that a lot of defense uses of guns arent reported because the user is afraid to get in trouble for illegal carrying! Well thats means they are breaking the law doesnt it? Doesnt that make them a criminal to some degree?
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - (part 1)ok, i watched ALL 13 of those videos. I certainly dont see (factual wise) how your side "destroyed" the others. Obviously you think so because you are pro gun. Anyway, I think they all had great arguements. Although as an officer who faces a lot of this stuff everyday, i can tall you a few things seemed off to me. Just at my Dept. alone in the month of Jan. there were 13 assaults on officers. 6 of those were attempts by the suspect to gain control of the officers gun.
sbisk 1 year ago
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@DanZellas24 -for you to deny that people seeing other "non police" people out in public with guns makes them nervous is ridiculous! Why then do we get called all the time by those same people to come "check out" this person with a gun? The fact you cant understand the difference between people being nervous cuz they see your gun and people not being nervous because they dont see ur gun is also amusing.
sbisk 1 year ago
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@DanZellas24 -for you to deny that people seeing other "non police" people out in public with a gun makes them nervous is ridiculous! Why then do we get called all the time by those same people to come "check out" this person with a gun? The fact you cant understand the difference between people being nervous cuz they see your gun and people not being nervous because they dont see ur gun is also amusing.
sbisk 1 year ago
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sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - so youre saying that when "defensive"gun uses occur,most dont get reported? What facts do you have to support that? Seems to me if a decent citizen who is OCing is put into a situation where they need to use their gun for defense, that would be something they (being a good citizen and all) should report to the police!? Plz, with a cop its MUCH more unlikely. Im sure ur chances to get struck by lightening are higher. With that in mind,why dont you walk around in a rubber suit then?
sbisk 1 year ago
CA is broke! And Rep Anthony J. Portantino is wasting tax payers money on this unconstitutional bill. He knows this will be killed in committee or overturn by a higher court. Why? The funny thing is all of the examples they use for gun violence were committed by criminals and not one of those examples were committed by an open carry law abiding citizen. Oh but all of those Police officers who shoot unarmed citizens are OK I guess, you never see one Brady person trying to take guns from Police.
bulrydrdan 1 year ago
@sbisk People who open carry do it legally* - sorry for the grammar error.
yoitsspiderman 1 year ago
@sbisk People who open carry are do it legally. One of the main points we gun advocates like to get out to people is "criminals don't open carry." They will always go around, disobey the law, and do what they want. What criminal in his right mind would display his firearm illegally? (criminals aren't even allowed to have a firearm) So, if you see "Joe Shmoe" openly carrying his firearm, you can assume he's one of the good guys, because "criminals don't open carry"
yoitsspiderman 1 year ago
@yoitsspiderman - so here in Ca. an officer CANNOT force anyone OCing to produce an ID in order to identify them. You dont think that the criminals will catch on to that being a perfect way to get out of having contacts with the police?! Or at the very least a way to not have to ID themselves when asked?
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - "Why dont people get bothered b/c u officers OC?" Yet another ridiculous comment. People understand why cops have guns. They know that the police are there to help. When they see just some "joe shmoe" walkin around with a gun it is unnerving. Why is that so hard to understand for you? Imagine some leathered out, tattoo'd up biker walking into McDonalds strapped with a .45 If you cant see how that would intimidate some people then youre not worth even discussing this with
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -Ok i'll spell it out for you........Give me an example of when OCing would help you? Your rationalizing is like a 3rd grader......"The same people that are "bothered" by guns are not bothered at all when they sit next to a concealed carrier. It's just funny as hell" DUH! BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THEY HAVE A GUN!
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - " I dont know what u mean by "OCing would be come into play." Theres my point! You wouldnt know when it should or shouldnt come into play. All you care about is exercising a right, not about the whole picture as it pertains to society.
sbisk 1 year ago
Imagine that , there was no trouble...hahahahaha DUH! who is going to mess with a significant amount of armed citizens attempting to enjoy themselves and practice their rights to assemble and to carry. The 2nd amendment says the people have the RIGHT to bear arms and that right SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. It is usually a wacko that shoots people not a law abiding citizen.
bigjohn98665 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - they also dont attack cops because of the likelyhood of getting caught. They know that attacking a cop is put on the highest priority to be dealt with. But random acts of violence plain and simply just dont occur that often (except in "gangbanger world"). ESPECIALLY ones that would necessitate the use of a gun to save oneself. So I know exactly what you think would necessitate the use of a gun, give me a scenerio where OCing would be come into play.........?
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - How is an OCer who is confronted with a "bad guy" pointing a gun at their face, going to draw their weapon, load the mag and rack a round point and shoot all before the "bad guy" simply pulls the trigger?! criminals dont attack the police in this manner because not only do they not want that fight, but they know its a fight that more than likely, they will lose.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - First off when youre confronted by a criminal, do as they say. The chances of ever actually being confronted by one is rare and even if it does happen, chances are he will already be armed and pointing the gun/knife at you. However, introducing your own attempt to "get the drop" on them with a gun will just get you shot/stabbed. Also,(imo) the 2A was meant to arm militias against a government "gone bad" and in defense of life and property in the home.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - But thats what the "OC movement" is all about. Spreading the word. "Use it or lose it". So in theory if it goes the way you all want, most people will have guns in public. So parents need to be outside with their kids all day while they are playing with their neighborhood friends?
sbisk 1 year ago
@sbisk If your a responsible parent you already are in the streets with your kids as they play. This is how you make sure they do not get in trouble and protect them if need be. Holy crap, being a responsible parent does not just mean paying for bills and clothes, it means taking care of your children too.
bigjohn98665 1 year ago
@bigjohn98665 -oh so i see... you think its irresponsible to let your kids play with their neighborhood friends outside their houses without parents sitting outside watching over their every move. Ya, your thinking rationally.
sbisk 1 year ago
@sbisk I'm quite rational...it's idiots like your self that think it is the job of the babysitter/school teachers/counselors etc... to raise your kids and wonder what happened when they are involved in some bad stuff because you couldn't be bothered with keeping an eye on them. As a parent I cannot imagine not being involved with my child and whom he hangs out with. It's my job to see he is raised up right and knows right from wrong and to make good decisions. maybe I'm just stupid though.
bigjohn98665 11 months ago
@DanZellas24 -The other point is (at least here in CA), the police are not allowed to ID an OCer. If you dont think good crooks will start to use that as a way to go about their day without being ID'd by the police, youre mistaken. Example; "Guy" OCing, walking down your neighborhood st. while your kids and others are playing out front. You call the police (or they happen by) and stop the guy. He refuses to show ID, cop leaves. 10 min later a kid is taken and turns out guy was a sex registrant
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - Again, youre missing my point. My concern is with a country where everyone carries a gun, the chances of "accidents" occurring goes WAY up. Whether it be an OCer over-reacting, or gangbangers jumping an OCer for their gun, cop shooting an OCer who is trying to protect themselves or others, etc....
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -IF all of what you said really occurred, the you are an EXTREME rarety. I'm sorry for your friends and family that had to experience that. However, having a gun wouldn't have necessarily helped things. In fact, it might well have made the murder # higher. My only point is there are other issues to think about than just protecting yourself against a rare possiblity. Open Carry presents many concerning issues for police, and society in general.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -Ya, because errors cant be made when split second ,life threatening decisions need to be made. Anyways, i would be willing to bet that you dont know a single person (personally) that was involved in a situation where having a gun would have saved their life or that of another. Bytheway, its not so much a "i should only be armed" mentality as it is a "The more guns in peoples hands the more chances of injury to others" mentality.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -hmmmm lets see, who deals in this type of reality more? You or a police officer??? At what point do you people say, "you know, this guy might have a different opinion than me, but he is a cop and deals with this stuff on a daily basis, so maybe i should be a bit more open to his side". Tell me, when doctors give advice on how to handle an illness, do you tell them they are all wrong and your way is the only way? Unbelievable. Its like talking to a 15 yr old who knows everything!
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - I happen to be a police officer in the city im refering to. So I think i know what types of crime happen here. And you actually proved my points with your own arguements. Yes, on occassion cops kill innocent people. Imagine a nation full of people (with less training and experience) carrying guns around. The more people that carry guns, the more chances of the scenerios i described occurring. Also, i never said people should have guns at home.
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 - u r missing my point.The chances of being a random victim of a violent crime that would necessitate a gun to resolve are RARE!The chances of an accident involving a gun if everyone OC'd are much more likely..ie..cops showing up to a man with a gun call and seeing multiple people with guns out "trying to help" and an OCer gets shot. OCer uses his/her gun when they think they need it and miss their target, killing an innocent person in the background. Just a few of the possibilities
sbisk 1 year ago
@DanZellas24 -Absolutely wrong! In the city where i live and work (in the top 10 largest cities in the nation), there is RARELY an instance where someone is the random victim of a violent crime out in public. Yet alone the victim of a crime they would have needed a gun to survive. And your attempt at making it sound as if citizens need guns as badly as police do is lame. They go to many calls during a shift that actually warrant the possible use of a gun. You sit on your couch
sbisk 1 year ago
I'm 18 and work for the Michigan Army National Guard. Since I am not eligible yet for a CCW I have no choice but to carry openly if I do carry at all.
iTzGiNz 1 year ago
Search on 12031 open carry and watch the police take down vids before you carry.
ActontheActor 1 year ago
I just purchased my first pistol. Glock 19. Can't wait to open carry. Great Job guys!!.
agarcia531 1 year ago
@agarcia531 see post above
ActontheActor 1 year ago
@agarcia531 Be careful.. open carry will get you a lot of attention... and definitely don't do it in a "school zone" (which is a LOT of places.. especially in LA.)
Chris4400 1 year ago
@agarcia531 better do it fast because they have another bullshit bill out there lol :)
GrizzPaul 1 year ago
How many people died at that event? Let's see.... ummm.... NONE!
Carry on!
tyhouston5 1 year ago
OPENCARRY!
DontTreadOnMeVa 1 year ago