DEBATE-POLE: Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, compare these violonists

[Geopholus]

I appreciate all the comments on the inappropriateness of comparing greats,... and yet one CAN in subjective terms find very special things about each one,... So, I enjoyed this "poll". I especially loved Kogan... who really allowed the beauty of the music to shine through without making his own virtuosity the central focus,.. which for all the amazing beauty and nuance of David Oistrakh is perhaps its weakness,.. the Tchiakovsky demands a little more compelling directness,.. Frncscti !!! Ahh!

[petrof4056]

@Geopholus Ty for understanding the goal of this pool

[ben32ben]

Trying to compare these master violinists is like trying to compare Mickey Mantle

and Willie Mays.

[petrof4056]

@ben32ben you did not understand this video, the thing is not to create the best interpreter, the goal is to share what you feel, everyone listen to those recordings and says which one he prefered, that's all, every comments has to be subjective, that's why it's exciting

[muken48]

Heifetz is probably better than anyone on any instrument, past or present but I grew up on the old bootleg Oistrakh recording. Every eccentric tempo change Oistrakh made seemed like the only way it should be played. After seeing Heifetz on the visual media, the restraint and apparent effortless perfection, I've learned to enjoy it.

[mesoman4jpr]

An impossible hogwash video....The orchestra and conductor and era would have to be the same. For example you cannot compare a romantic like Oistrakh to a

post WW2 surealist like Kogan. on top of that the accoustics, harmonics and

tempos change!

[Thelucsla]

It isn´t easy. Everybody is original. This composition is very touching. David Oistrakh is probably the closest to my heart. I hope I did not write something stupid, I'm Czech, so sorry :-)

[Pegasusxy]

Would you be so kind as to add Milstein to this? It could be interesting. GREAT IDEA!

More of same, please!

[jdcatao]

For me all of them sound equally beautiful, but it is a matter of own personality how each one of us feels the their music...

[jdcatao]

For me all of them sound equally beautiful

[gnatural]

The whole concept of this video is flawed. for the one hundredth million time ! you can not, i repeat you CAN NOT compare violinists of this caliber...this who is better stuff has to stop its like trying to compare the taste of an apple to chocolate. they are two totally different things and the above mentioned violinists are all in their own league and have their own individual taste ,personality and sound. if you happen to like one more than the other, that's entierly up to you.

[petrof4056]

@gnatural dear gnatural, nobody has the truth. I made this video to see what personnal opinion watchers have. Someone prefers Oistrakh, another one prefers Heifetz etc...

Each and every single one of these watchers have their favorite(s). So, this is not a compraison, it talks about which violonist do YOU prefer

[gnatural]

@petrof4056 then why did you call this a debate? the title of the video needs to be changed then. a debate over what? who is better? if you want to know who people prefer then call it a pole. there is no debating these violinist sounds because none of them are better than each other.

[icebatski]

@gnatural So sorry, but YOU CAN COMPARE. AND IT'S FUN!

I loved this opportunity to SAVOR the musical and technical EXPRESSION of

all these violinists. It's a JOY to do so. And, no, I'm not an amateur. I'm a professor of music

who's studied at Eastman, Yale, Columbia, Warsaw Conservatory [Poland] and this

video is a delight. As you say, whether one likes this or that violinist is up to the

EAR OF THE BEHOLDER and aesthetic taste count. We EVOLVE as listeners. Nice.

[gnatural]

@icebatski I dont think you understand my comment. when people come around and compare violinists and say for example that perlman is "BETTER" than Oistrakh as a violinist 100%... you cant say that. i dont care how many ways you turn it. comparing violinists on "That specific level" is "impossible" . sure you can talk about their "sounds" and which you "might think" sounds better or richer but you cant possibly say that one is "better" in every single way.

[petrof4056]

@gnatural Sure, you're right, we cant say someone is better than an other but people has their own opinion. And, adding with all commentators, we can see how much people prefer Heifezt, etc...

I think my video is not a so bad idea. Because here, we don't have the truth, nobody has it. But, it appears me interesting to hear, to compare those violonists. Unfortunately not in the whole concerto due to Youtube limited time but just have an overview.

Debate... Pole, i think the word doesn't matter

[icebatski]

WOW, many thanks petrof4056 for this ingenious presentation

of genius violinists. It's a pleasure to compare & appreciate these

amazing musicians. More, more!

[petrof4056]

@gnatural Oh, and I look forwad to make the same for the introduction of the Chausson's Poeme

[olivinetea]

Part 1: 1) Heifetz/Kogan 2) Francescatti 3) Oistrakh 4) Kulenkampff Part 2 1) Kogan 2) Oistrakh 3) Heifetz/Francescatti 4) Kulenkampff lol Heifetz's were unmistakable.

[TheVivaldie]

My opinion:

Heifetz - Kogan- Oistrakh - Francescatti- Kulenkampff

[veidhleadoir]

Heifetz.

[oboistru]

I wonder why no modern performances. On a blind testing I bet they would beat the old guard.

[titishev]

It is too straight approach just to judge who's the better one. Oistrakh and Heifetz are especially notable by reflecting the whole musical and cultural epoch in their countries by their performing and interpreting style.

[dziady1]

They are all very good

considering the work is such a piece of

claptrap -

[vlbistr1972]

All violinists so different! For present time we need to add to this collection some outstanding interpretations as such as Maxim Vengerov, Akiko Suwanai (live recording in Moscow). And do not forget recordings of Nathan Milstein, Itshak Perlman, Gidon Kremer etc...

[juuja1]

I.Stern and I.Perlman missing :-)

[billyguns2]

All of the are wonderful, but Kogan stands apart; what a fabulous violinist and musician he was! I was also struck by the beautiful intimacy and tenderness of Kulenkampff and Hefifetz here.

[music00000000]

All are great masters and to compare them is like to compare great composers or great painters - matter of personal preference.

[camiloacosta]

viva Francescatti!

[realgoodfishes]

i think kogan but like them all the highs on that violin are great wish i could give my kid that violin

[jayadsilva67]

One thing is clear here. They all soud superb. But clearly Mr. Kogan stands out way above others

[moldyoreo]

in what way does Kogan stand out way above others?

[vidissao]

All these violonists cause me great admiration for their extraordinary quallities. Kogan, spot his clear technical with fearless playing disposition. Kulemkampff has a touching message using delicatessen and great sophistication.Oistrak shows sensitive sound full of richness surprises second by his unsuspected technique. Francescatti shows his amazing musicality with powerfull fingering and superb intonation. Heifetz sometimes allows himself to believe been a divine and most of time, he get it.

[gavaness]

I am partial to Kogan. However, I think all musicians change with time. Each one matures differently. This 1950 recording of Kogan sounds very different to the 1970s version I have with Silvestri conducting (hope to digitize and post it soon). The conductor also makes a big difference in rendering the rest of the music. These 5 are all good. That's what makes listening to each one a pleasure of different distinction.

[rswalz]

Heifetz-Kulenkampff-Francescat­ti-Kogan-Oistrakh

[bellphegor]

in my opinion Heifetz - Kulenkampff - Kogan - Francescatti - Oistrach...

Watch out for the little superb details that each one is pinpointing or not in their interpretation.

It is out of question who is the greatest, because they all were great, but the music they express is different...

Anyway thanks to the poster for this comparison... :D

[mophoplz]

Great recordings, but trying to compare these five by their introductions is like comparing great novels by their first pages. Regardless, I'm partial to Kogan and Heifetz, but I would also suggest checking out Tibor Varga, whose recording is on youtube.

[themusicdr]

oh yes sir totally agree. i was unaware of tibor varga before YT - but he was great easily amonst the above company

[bala747]

I might get a lot of flak for this but I actually loved the not-so-commonly-heard Menuhin's version of this concerto. His rendition was a little less 'polished' than the others but fantastic in terms of emotion. Also Gidon Kremer has played it masterfully. Amongst these masters, it's hard to judge. They all sound good.

[kiroualekou]

pour moi c'est francescatti et kogan dans cet ordre la mais pas specialment pour leur facon de jouer mais plus je crois le son du violon (alors la le kogan sera un guarneri et celui de francescatti le stradivarius hart??) -la rondeur du son-c'est difficile a dire pourquoi

[dinoimeri]

You cannot compare performances based on listening only to the themes. How could you compare the sense of form, different developments in the piece and many, many other things that are not contained only in the themes?

[klarmsb]

Check out Milstein.

[g57g]

Oistrakh, Heifetz...or Heifetz, Oistrakh!

[vonlubcke]

its hard to choose, they all sound amazing...

I would prefer Kogan.....

[ipmoic]

Tried to do this without looking. Got Oistrakh, Heifetz--his sound and attack is, truly, unmistakable. AND I got Kulenkampff!! Now that you've introduced him to me I hear his style and that magnificent tone. Somewhat like Elman but, of course, different and his own remarkable personality.

Thanks petrof4056--you are great!

[petrof4056]

i'm so happy you know, i introduced Kulenkampff to somepeople. Kulenkampff is one of my favourite, he was a great german violonist and pedagogue. He knew exactly smalls errors in each pieces because he was teacher. He was the creator of the Schumann violin concerto!! Listen it!! this is wonderful! i have a lot of violin concerto played by Kulenkampff in my channel. I'm searching his record of the Beethoven violin concerto with Furtwängler

[wilhelmsezane]

I heard this clip few times... and it is still hard to decide! May be my own opinion, but I really like the style of L.Kogan - special for this Koncert!... Then Oistrakh, his interpetation is well-known. Heifetz would like to listen with some other art of music. I don't understand why Kulenkampff is here...? Spivakov, Tretyakov... they have great recording of Tschaikovsky too.

[jonianviolinist]

i would say.....Heifetz and then Oistrakh......the rest is fantastic but it is difficult to decide....heifetz and oistrakh have a big difference from the others......thats my personal opinion.....dont make stupid responses......peace

[megahedviolin]

i think vladimir spivakov's recording was one of the best....i used to have it but i lost it and i cant find it anywhere, if anybody has it plz post it

[calloffthedogs]

I have both of them! He recorded it twice.

[themusicdr]

v diff for me (but then really as non professionals can we truely judge) personally francescatti and kogan - somehow mange to convey more emotin

[sylget1921]

Tschaikovsky Violin Concerto in D Major....... my favorite....and a great performance ...thank you

[calloffthedogs]

They are all fabulous. I love side-by side comparisons like this too. And I think they are useful provided that they are listened to in the right way.

[calloffthedogs]

I like Kogan's but I believe his best performance is not represented here - the one with Silvestri in 1959 is truly gut wrenching.

[Kievest]

Marvelous listening, thank you. First,

Oistrakh...Second, Kulenkampff. I agree

with younglemeshevist.

[younglemeshevist]

I don't know what to say about the beginning - all five performances are beautiful. In the second excerpt I prefer Oistrakh and Kulenkamph, though others are great too.

Thanks for the video.

[farzadvengerov]

I can't prefer one of them because each of them is a different world.

[violinist102]

I prefer either Oistrakh or Francescatti, just my opinion.

[fanthill]

L'avis d'un non- connaisseur : Kulenkampf et Francesdatti ont la préférence.

Peut-on connaître votre jugement , vous qui êtes spécialiste?

[petrof4056]

vous venez de citer les 2 meilleurs, oui, je vais donner mon avis pour tout le monde comme je l'ai fait pour les autres débats, j'attends un petit peu encore les autres réactions

[jacquesurlus]

Je ne suis pas connaisseur en matière de violonistes, mais j'ai une grande admiration pour David Oistrakh (pour la grande chaleur de ses interprétations dont je dirais qu'elles me rappellent Bruno Walter) Cet Homme dégage une immense Humanité. Je découvre avec bonheur Leonid Kogan dont l'interprétation est d'une grande élévation spirituelle. (Je vais sans doute m'intéresser à ce grand artiste) Quoi qu'il en soit cette sélection est vraiment exeptionelle. Merci beaucoup !!

[joanabanyeres]

Kogan and Francescati are my prefered.

[UltimateViolin]

The 1954 Heifetz recording has been completely remastered on SACD...I completely recommend it. It really sounds much better than the RCA version.

[Violinjunky]

I am a big Kogan and Oistrakh fan--but in this case I really like the additional warmth and sweetness that Francescatti brings to the interpretation--Kogan follows at a very close second. Oistrakh's interpretation is most impressive...but who are we kidding? They are all wonderful.

[69brancaleone]

In this violin concerto i have to change the violinist chosen in the previous debate and say that the best version is by Leonid Kogan. Just more emotional and beautiful.

[MrCafiero]

I have to say that I really like Kogan and Francescatti in this just due to the "tone" of the playing. It has more bass like darkness and depth to it. It really "sings". I like Kulenkampff as well and find it interesting how he "bends" the notes sometimes. Like a slight portamento, as in singing. What struck me right away when Francescatti started was the 'vibrato'. Beautiful.

[OriginalMoonbeam]

I'm already so familiar with all of these performances with the exception of Kulenkampff's that my mind was already made up ages ago...so I can't exactly be impartial here. If I were to purchase a CD of one of these 5 it would be Kogan...and I already own Francescatti's--there are a couple of other performer's not included in this list that I think are exceptional performers of this piecelike Kyung Wha Chung and the wonderful Tibor Varga

[OriginalMoonbeam]

I want to add that Kulenkampff really had beautiful portmento

[petrof4056]

Sorry again to disturb you. This is the last for the moment.

[vstasov]

No disturbance - this is a wonderful exercise, and one of my favorite things to do - compare/contrast artists.

Kogan and Francescatti get many stars! Kogan is so secure and assertive, almost a helden-violinist. Francescatti has a swinging, beautifully muscular pulse; Kulenkampff is elegant and refined - transparent, rarified. But Kogan has a soul-piercing depth that stands out. Of course Oistrakh has those gorgeous, achingly heart rending moments

Thank you. Chamber music next?

[oakroom48]

I agree with vstasov - no disturbance!! ;)These are so enjoyable! Chamber music would be great, too :) Thanks !!

[vstasov]

Would you ever consider a compare/contrast with Tchaikovsky's piano trio?  It's one of my favorite chamber works. And a Beethoven cello or violin sonata - the Kreuzer, perhaps?

Thanks so much, petro4056.