Baucus: It Is 'Disrespectful, Unseemly' to Invoke Kennedy Name in Opposition to Health Care Reform

[mintvagoo]

Courage and conservatism mix like oil and water. Where there is a dress- a conservative hides behind it.

[fishhead06]

The GOP are obstructionist, hypocritical, corporate whores. Film at 11.

[rippac86]

he doesnt know how to talk.. hes like a retarded mad max

[iknewitalready]

Max Baucus almost killed the health care reform for the sake of "bipartisanship".

Compromised to DEATH of any reform.....but still compromising more to suck any LIFE out of health care reform to please the republicunts.

[FallingTruth360]

TRAITOR

[doink1422]

does obama still have line item veto maybe he can take out all this bad bullshit they are puting in it and keep the house bill

[frednoname1]

@doink1422

No, the dems stoped the line item veto because they didn't want bush to have it.

[Pleblian]

@frednoname1

It was SCOTUS that stopped "line item vote" in 1998 not the democrats

[frednoname1]

@Pleblian

Look again.

[frednoname1]

my bad, Bush and Clinton wanted it but were blocked both times. Anyway, its not law so obama can only veto sign it or let it pass unsigned.

[kaysandesses]

frednoname, perhaps YOU should "look again" about the history of the line item veto. The Line Item Veto act of 1996 was a GOP bill, was passed and signed by President Clinton. It was challenged in the Courts by a handful of Dem. Senators but was held to be unconstitutional by SCOTUS.

It had nothing to do with Bush.

[doink1422]

thanks for the info

[Pleblian]

@fred

Not an answer

[oliverleehornbake]

Hahahaha. The only republicans that worked with the dems were people like Olympia Snow, who is by all accounts, a conservative liberal. The republicans that did try to work with the dems were told to sit in the corner with a dunce hat on and simply listen. When you listen to the senators from both sides talk about writing this Giant, 2000+ page bill, all the working was on the dem side. The republicans would suggest something and the dems would shoot them down. This bill is Partisan.

[doink1422]

what a short memory you have because form 1994 when the republicans won the house and senate till 2006 when the dems finally won them back. republican did the exact same thing your talking about. they wasted our dollars 400 million if i think correctly on a lawyer to find a cum stained dress

[PJDolan1]

frednoname1, you need a history lesson. The Dixiecrats who opposed civil rights left the Democratic Party en masse and joined the Repulican party after President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[frednoname1]

Great, its 2009 not 1964.

The only KKK member in congress is byrd. A democrat.

None of which relates in any way to this bill.

[joshatkins94]

Byrd left the KKK 56 years ago. and anyway, it's not like he's a liberal Democrat by any stretch.

[frednoname1]

He is the only serving senator who was in the KKK.

A dem.

[joshatkins94]

He joined the party before it became center-left. You know that. Don't spin it.

[frednoname1]

whatever makes you feel better.

[inmyforties]

true. dems are tasteless and classless. tom coburn "praying" that senator bird drops dead and doesn't make it to the vote is true class and patriotic

[frednoname1]

@inmyforties

After 8 years of bush hatred, they are simply living up to your standard.

[frednoname1]

Yes it is today. This crap sandwhich has got the humor part of my brain suppressed.

Sigh.

[frednoname1]

I wonder how many people here know that you will be taxed for this crap sandwhich for 4 years before it covers one single person???

[doink1422]

we pay taxes for it anyway it is call medacare

[JerezJulio]

The republican Band Together to prevent Health Care for the American People because, Like Senator Lindsey Graham said, they are afraid that the poor Blacks will get health and they might vote democrats.

They is about Racist and class warfare, In the South the Confederacy army and The Klux Klux Klam never when away, they became the Republican Party.

[frednoname1]

The racist card. How predictable. Are 59% of the people in this country racist???

Complete bullshit of course.

[frednoname1]

A point of history, the KKK and confederates were hard core democrats.

Sorry but its true. Niether group are republicans.

[KataVideo]

"were"

NOW the kkk is republican as ronald reagan

[frednoname1]

@KataVideo

Thats just progressive propoganda with no basis in fact at all. Its a lie fed to you.

[KataVideo]

no, the republicans are a filthy stinking teabagger racist party. it's an undeniable fact.

[joshatkins94]

@frednoname1 A point of history, the Democrats used to be the conservative party. A point of history, the Republicans used to be progressive.

It's humorous hearing the GOP rant on and on about how they're the party of Lincoln, when they know full well that Lincoln was a progressive and the confederacy was staunchly conservative.

[frednoname1]

Which is why I am niether. I have no party affiliation. The whole racist charge is complete crap dems use to avoid debate.

Its used when thier position is undefendable.

[joshatkins94]

@frednoname1 If you look at the 1860 election map, you'll see that the liberal MA, NY, CA, ME, PA, NJ, RI, OR, VT, WI, MI, etc., all voted Republican, while conservative TX, AL, FL, GA, LA, MS, etc., all went Democratic.

The New York Times originally supported Republican candidates. Why? Why did northern states go Republican and southern go Democratic?

Because the parties used to be reversed. It's a fact.

[frednoname1]

Yay so they are both guilty. Which has nothing to do with this bill.

[JerezJulio]

@frednoname1

You go it all wrong.

There are two ideology Liberal and Conservative, the Conservatives are and has always being the Racist party whether they were Democrats in the during the civil war or the Republican today.

The Democrats grew out of the Racism and move North, while the Republicans move to the south and became the party of the confederates.

[JerezJulio]

Back by the time predating the Civil War you got the Wig and the Democratic Party, Abraham Lincoln, disgusted with the Politic of the two Party formed the Part of the Liberals Ideal, The Republican Party,

The Wig (the Original Republican Party) has so much Hatred toward a President with a novel idea of freeing the Slaves, that thye fused with the Racist Democrat of the time.

[PersonalJesus348]

It is disrespectful to not give us Single Payer lets get real here!

[frednoname1]

This isn't single payer. Single payer would be better than this crap sandwhich.

[joshatkins94]

single payer could pass if they actually could be bothered to use reconciliation.

[frednoname1]

Single payer will not work in America, its just not setup to handle it. It works in other countries because they have different economic and social realities. They are willing to accept a level of government control and taxation that this country simply will not put up with.

Yet STILL this bill is worse.

[joshatkins94]

the bill sucks, but if it doesn't pass, the insurance companies still will be able to block coverage based on pre-existing conditions, there won't be subsidies, Medicaid won't be expanded to slightly more above the poverty line, and other reforms won't go into law.

plus, the GOP will win big next year and you can say goodbye to healthcare reform for the next few decades.

[frednoname1]

The GOP had a healthcare plan that was completely ignored. This bill will not cover 1 more person befre 2013.

[KataVideo]

the gop never had a healthcare plan when it was in control of congress.

[doink1422]

no one remember bush stopping mail order meds from canada and his great(being sarcastic) prescription buy in. where he let the drug companies write the law.

[KataVideo]

agreed, bush and gop congress made it worse for seniors

[doink1422]

are you some kind of moron. all the gop want to was stop malpractice law suits and keep everything else the same.

[TrollBuster9090]

While I agree the bill is a crap sandwich, and the big ticket items don't kick in until 2013, the patients bill of rights and new regulations on HMOs kick in the day it's signed, as do the health insurance tax credits.

[Pleblian]

Now living in Canada, when living in the states I used to believe the same thing, until I did some research in statics.

It turns out, that over all Americans pay about 5% less in taxes on average.

But wait, before you celebrate... According to global statistics Canadians have 4 to 7% more disposable income then their American counterpart.

You may pay less in taxes but the taxes you do pay, you have far less to show it.

[doink1422]

i would live up there too but winter sucks up there.

[frednoname1]

When the hell did the dems reach out to the GOP???

They didn't, this entire bill was written behind closed doors and not one damn senator knows what the hell he/she is voting for.

This bill, from what I have seen, has all the worst parts of socialist medicine and the current system and none of the benefits of either!!! Socialist medicine would be BETTER than this. Profiles in courage, pah, bullshit. Profiles in corruption and bribery. This bill would never pass without bribes. EVER.

[joshatkins94]

Democrats compromised the following:

1. single payer

2. public option compromise

3. medicare compromise

4. antitrust exemption

5 . etc. etc.

[frednoname1]

All to fellow democrats. The GOP was locked completely out.

[joshatkins94]

No, they locked themselves out. It was a choice they and they alone made, for selfish political reasons [2010 elections].

[frednoname1]

No the dem leadership literaly locked them out of the meetings.

[TrollBuster9090]

The GOP was never locked out. In the Senate alone there were two bills, both written and passed in committee, with the committees being composed (proportionally) of both Democrats and Republicans.

In the H.E.L.P. committee bill alone, Democrats accepted 161 Republican amendments, and even after accepting all those amendments only one (Snowe) would vote for it.

slate. com/id/2223023/

At one point Dodd even motioned to include Republican amendments without debate, and REPUBLICANS objected.

[frednoname1]

So only one side can invoke kennedy???

LOL

[yanikv]

no you cocksucker. Its the fact that Kennedy was a progressive, meaning that he would be fighting for such a measure.

A republican invoking his name to kill health care would be like some Southern racist invoking MLK's name and message in order to support the continuance of Jimm Crow laws or slavery. Its odious and foul you cockroach.

If you cant get that, it would probably be best for you to kill yourself for the sake of the nation. Remove your faulty genes from the pool for our sake.

[frednoname1]

So what? So what if Kennedy was a progressive???

Get over yourself. God liberals blow crap completely out of proportion.

You idiots use dead people all the time to support bills we know damn well they wouldn't have supported in life.

I deny you the right to tell me who i can and who i can't use.

[yanikv]

Go fuck yourself you mindless troll. People like you without any semblance of self-respect dont deserve any more attention.

[frednoname1]

Wow, what a great arguement.

And you wonder why we thing progressives are intolerant bigots.

[joshatkins94]

yeah, the side Kennedy was on before he died. the Democrats.

[iamavet]

What is disrespectful, Baucus, is you damn Senators taking special deals, with OUR tax money,when you decided to vote on a Bill that will affect 300 million Americans and future generations.

Bringing up Kennedy's is not relevant for either Party, since the Kennedys were rich corrupt Senators like you- Senators that do not have to take the HC you stick the American people with..

[IAMtheNewWorldOrder]

All we need are 2 courageous republicans to stand up and support real healthcare reform, so Loserman and Nelson can take their bullshit bills and go home.

[TrollBuster9090]

Four Republicans breaking ranks with the Republican scorched-earth, "I hope he fails" Limbaugh strategy would've been better. Then they could've told Nelson, Baucus, and Landrieu to shove their "my vote is for sale" attitude up their ass, and kicked Lieberman out of caucus for good, and still written a much better bill than this one.

55 Democrats and an independent came to a reasonable compromise, and it was hijacked by three spoiled brat Democrats, and an amorphous blob from Connecticut.

[CollateralSandwich]

Dems and Repubs should be wiped out in the next 3 election cycles. America needs two new parties; the Progressive party (Socialist) and the Tea party (libertarian). Get the corporations out of government and give it back to the people.

[IAMtheNewWorldOrder]

You're absolutely right, and we also need a corporatist party, so that when assholes try to label themselves as being progressive or libertarian, we can say "No, you're a corporatist, your record proves it."

Also, maybe a social-conservative party so that the libertarians know the difference between themselves and the nutcases.

[CollateralSandwich]

LOL

Sounds good to me!

[joshatkins94]

progressive is liberal, not socialist. just have a party that actually is liberal. elect feingold president and kucinich or frank vp.

[CollateralSandwich]

Agreed.

[joshatkins94]

..I agree with your general idea, and it needs to happen.

[frednoname1]

Progressive have always been socialists

[baronmorris]

Progressives are about moving humanity forward. Here's to 'em.

p e a c e

[frednoname1]

@baronmorris

No its not. It never has been. "progressives" have racked up some of the biggest body counts in history.

[joshatkins94]

watching glenn beck again?

[frednoname1]

Not one of you have ever proven Glenn Beck wrong.

I have asked many times.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

Y'all just ignore facts left and right and equate good americans with dictators. Glenn Beck? Dude, c'mon, you're talking about an alcoholic who converted to LDS like he's some transcendant mind.

I question the sanity of anyone who converts to that dopey, nonsensical, and empirically inaccurate bag of shit. Seriously man, its ridiculous, even for a religion. Anyone who, as an adult, signs up is a raging loony.

[frednoname1]

@Bunnicula71

Then why can't you prove him wrong???

Have you even bothered to listen to him?

Didn't think so.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

I have listened to that whacko, hence my disdain for him and his ridiculous ideology.

"Prove him wrong"? In what sense? What point? Specifics?

You and your ilk like to redefine things to fit your ideals. Progressive does not equal Marxist, no matter how many times you repeat it. Saying something does NOT make it true.

You're being spoon fed an idiots version of history, and methinks you've eaten too much.

I've rhetorically eviscreated you pal.

[frednoname1]

@Bunnicula71

Progressive does equate to marxism today. You still have nothing on Beck, all you have done is call people names.

God you people aren't worth my time. Clearly you just take your talking points and run with them.

bye.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

Hey guy, you seeem to think you've won an argument, but I just see you demonstrating what a dopey parrot you are.

Any reasonable person, reading this BS, will merely judge you an idiot, and me an oppinionated, rude, but well versed critic.

I'm not a party line sort of guy, and I think for myself. You, however, simply repeat the name of your shepherd Beck and Bah a lot.

You seem obsessed with a simpleton's view and explanation of great historical events.

[frednoname1]

@Bunnicula71

Still no facts from you, just more insults.

You are not worth my time.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

Well considering you NEVER even responded to my initial argument, instead spouting "facts" of dubious veracity that you hold to be self evident. Others, better informed, just find it unsubstantiated crazy talk.

I merely called you on YOUR clear lack of knowledge regarding the things you're pontificating about.

Cite a better source than Beck. That's like citing "the internet" as a source, an admission you don't know jack.

You just can't handle being flayed by a "lefty"

[joshatkins94]

It really, really doesn't. Things you say are marxist are what every other developed country has - every country which stood against communism in the Cold War - single-payer (most of them) or a public option.

[TrollBuster9090]

It doesn't take move than about three seconds to prove Beck wrong, on average.

How about the time he played a 20 second clip of Obama saying "we need a civilian security force..." and then jerked off for half an hour about what he "might" mean by that, including all sorts of analogies to the Gestapo and Hitler Youth. When in fact, if you backed the tape up to 10 seconds before the clip he played you'd hear him specifically say he was talking about the Peace Corps and U.S. Foreign Service.

[joshatkins94]

Some great Beck quotes:

"We're into socialism now. This isn't our final destination. Our final destination is communism."

"He [Pres. Obama] may be a full-fledged Marxist. He has surrounded himself by Marxists his whole life."

"This President is, I believe, a racist"

"It is -- it is our govt. If you trust our govt., it's fine. If you have any kind of fear that we might be headed towards a totalitarian state, look out, buckle up. There is something going on in our country that is -- ain't good."

[baronmorris]

you obviously don't know the meaning of the word. just bc some killer says they are moving humanity fwd while killing people doesn't mean they are a progressive. get a clue.

[frednoname1]

@baronmorris

They were all progressives. Sorry that you don't like the truth but they were. Alot of thier slogans were used in obamas campaign. Not suprising since alot of obamas friends and mentors are marxists. THAT is also a matter of public record.

[joshatkins94]

just grow up, seriously. progressive is just a different name for liberal (conservatives have defame the word liberal starting with McCarthy), socialism is as close to liberalism as fascism is to conservatism.

[frednoname1]

Progressive = socialist = Stalin, Lenin, Mao to name a few...

Deal with it.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

Words mean stuff guy, and clearly you missed that lesson in school. To equate Stalin, Mao, and Lenin to American progressives marks you as an idiot. Clearly you know dick about the history involved in your inane comments.

That dog doesn't hunt for anyone who isn't retarded, insane, or both.

Becktard = Stupid = Ignorant = YOU

Deal with it

( I suspect you're sublimating your rage about a small penis and mind by making ridiculous statements.)

[frednoname1]

@Bunnicula71

Lenin, Stalin and mao all came to power using progressive slogans. Its all there in the history books.

Again, instead of calling Beck names, prove him wrong.

Namr calling just shows you have nothing else.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

Dude, you just don't know anything, that's cool, Lenin came to power in a multi-party REVOLUTION dope, Mao, same deal, but expressly communist.

Stalin grabbed power without appealing to anyone, it happened within a totalitarian system. None of these people were elected in any way.

By comparing the duly elected president of the USA to murdererous despots, you're expressly insulting him, no?

You're a name caller pal, get off your inappropriately high horse.

[frednoname1]

I am comparing thier slogans not thier methods. They are very similar "change" "redistrobution" "unions" etc etc etc.

After the lefts treatment of bush, comparing obama to stalin is fair game by YOUR standards.

BTW you still haven't proven Beck wrong on anything.

[Bunnicula71]

@frednoname1

You're trying to draw significance from the use of the word "change"? Dude, calm down.

Stalin was Stalin, Hitler was Hitler, Mao was Mao.

By any reasonable evaluation of the facts your statement is, at best, grossly exaggerated hyperbole, and, at worst, the ranting of a mad man. Comparing Bush to them is also lunacy guy.

Its pretty easy to tell when you're conversing with someone that doesn't really know jack shit about history, and brother you know less.

[baronmorris]

SPOT ON, Bunnicula71 !!

refreshing retort! Here's to ya!

[frednoname1]

@baronmorris

He didn't prove anything either. Sigh, progressives....

[baronmorris]

frednoname1 = paranoid schizophrenic = snivelling inconsequential turd = John Birch Society.

DEAL WITH IT!! BWAHAHAHAA!!!

[frednoname1]

@baronmorris

Sorry, was that supposed to prove something besides your maturity level?

You haven't proven Beck wrong on anything, all you have done is call people names. Im not very impressed.

[TrollBuster9090]

I agree, we need at least four parties. A true Progressive party, a center-left party (Democrats), a center-right party (Repubs) and a traditional conservative party (probably Tea Party). I don't think Libertarian would fit that fourth category because they are fiscal conservative but social liberal. However, five parties (including libertarians) would be even better. Two parties is bullshit.

[phffeir]

The only thing that kennedy wouldve opposed about this health care bill was the fact that it didnt go far enough to the left

[joshatkins94]

exactly... he lowered the top marginal tax rate to a low low rate of 70%, so naturally republicans hail him as a conservative democrat, which is absurd.

[charlie44441]

Republicans are not used to losing...you just have to look at the direction the country has gone for the past 40 years to know that..  But when they do lose, they are the biggest fucking babies in the world!

[frednoname1]

I kinda object to the bankrupting of the country. Silly me.

[joshatkins94]

so you objected to everything bush did then?

[frednoname1]

not everything but alot i disagreed with.

[joshpnw]

Oh, so it's ok to bring up Kennedy's name when it works in your favor (Obama), but when you're in opposition; disrespectful?

What an a**hole

[bigc028282]

@joshpnw jeez if they think that's bad, how about some truth. CHAPPAQUIDDICK TED. These f*cking politicians think that all those who would remember are dead?

Teddy was a piece of sh!t, PROOF? He's was one left to live. He probably sold out his own family.

[TheRamenAvenger]

Actually yes it's fine for the Democrats to bring up Kennedy's name because a) he was a Democrat and b) he was in favor of health care reform. Republicans just like to pretend that he would have opposed it. And yeah it's disrespectful.

[Pears1944]

The Kennedys were FOR health care reform that's why it's disrespectful. (unless of course you were tyring to sound ignorant and interbred, in which case you comment was funny LOL)

[frednoname1]

Oh bullshit. If one side uses him, he is fair game. Blow it out your ass.

[joshpnw]

Oh... I see. The democrats can invoke the 'almighty' name of Kennedy to further their agenda... (including Obama), but that special name is out of bounds for Republicans?

Typical liberal foolishness. Who looks ignorant now fool?

Beside all that... f*k Ted Kennedy. He was a disgrace. How's that for ignorance?

[ARom101]

Grow up.