discussion on gay marriage and Prop 8 on Bill Maher

[GodCreatesGays2]

@jogeryjogo, God, Himself, disagrees with your absurd contentions, so whom should we believe: The Lord, Creator of all things in heaven and earth, including gay people, or...you? I hope you don't mind if we side with God. he has a better track record of being right.

[TheCrisisKings]

@jogeryjogo All of the rights came from the Creator? Which ones? The Bill of Rights, or the 17 other times we have changed it. Did God tell us that he all of a sudden changed his mind about black people after the civil war?

[Gehenna921]

@jogeryjogo I think we had a war over separating state and church. OH YEAH. IT WAS THE WAR THAT TURNED THIS INTO A COUNTRY. Your ideals are obsolete and do not apply in modern day society

[CrazyMunky84]

@jogeryjogo And when god say this. Don't say he said it in the bible. Because people wrote the bible based on their own opinions. Christianity is not actually true. Islam is not actually true so stop being stupid.

[mark0s3000]

@jogeryjogo "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." This doesn't mention the Bible, so using the Bible's canon for your anti-gay argument makes no sense. What we do know is that the Constitution ensures equal rights and happiness for all American citizens.

[Killerjosh89]

this is a perfect example of democracy (a mob rule as said by jefferson, franklin, madison, etc) and a lack of our country's foundation, constitutional republicanism (individual liberty) the majority cannot vote on the minority social issues, and personal lives for godsakes, its sickening. We all need to stop saying the democracy and start saying constitutional republic to get this "mob rule" mentality out of our citizens goddamn heads!

[RIMA142142]

ohh Ashton!! <3

[RIMA142142]

@jogeryjogo lol sh*t up

i'm so tired of stupidity

in the end we will have our rights. see what happened with women rights? and black people? we will have that too.

[RIMA142142]

@jogeryjogo lol shut up

i'm so tired of stupidity

in the end we will have our rights. see what happened with women rights? and black people? we will have that too.

[ThePhantom135]

"Separation of Church & State". What is so hard to understand about that? You can't deny someone's civil rights just because the God that you worship has an issue with it. It's like if someone came up to a religious person and said, "You can't have certain civil rights because I don't believe in the God that you worship." Just give the LGBT community their rights as human beings and let's move on already!

[skyerune]

@jogeryjogo God isn't real.

[daccord1]

damn Ashton seemed pissed haha But I agree with him completely =]

[leftyla]

@jogeryjogo Hey, were you left behind by the Rapture? That's too bad.

[GabrielHaze]

@jogeryjogo I will gladly agree to your point the day you go to the ballot box and vote YES on stoning to death those who commit adultery. I am not offended by the mere idea of Christianity forcing it's beliefs on everyone else as much as I am infuriated by the truth that all of you pick and choose the SIN of the week you'll accept. Perhaps you would receive a far greater amount of respect for your beliefs and your incessant need to push them on others if all of you followed them yourselves.

[skepticswastika1121]

Marriage should be a right. Marriage is not sacred. I agree with Ashton Kutcher.

[Terek60]

@jogeryjogo Funny how you say that, I'm assuming you're either Christian or Catholic. Doesn't it directly state that God or "The Creator" gave man free will to do as they wish and their actions will be judge in the afterlife, and Jesus preached ideas such as "turn the other cheek" or " do unto others as you wish others do unto you" along with "love thy enemy" or "do not wrong one who has wronged you" and most famous "judge not less ye be judge yourself"

[drunkenirsh420]

@Terek60 Hey do not associate that ignorant prick with the rest of us Catholics.As a Catholic I support marriage equality and equal protection under the law for anyone and what they choose as their definition of marriage and I think most Catholics under 30 agree with me.That being said, I agree with you.

[0dour]

WTF is Ashton Kutcher doing there?! I thought the panel was for smart people only

[CrazyRsQuester]

I wish I could take Ashton seriously, but after all those episodes of That 70s Show....it is REALLY hard.

[zepalom]

@jogeryjogo good thing I'm an atheist, or I'd have to worry about that!

[MamaMario13]

@jogeryjogo nope it is a secular constitution

[TheHandsomeDonovan]

@jogeryjogo The constitution states quite clearly to have a separation of church and state. Your religious beliefs do not come into this debate as much as you would like to. Consider other religions, such as Buddhism that don't have a problem with it. Consider even athiests who have no problem with it either. Trying to force your beliefs is completely un-American. You want to claim to be apart of the free world you do not deny the rights of some of the citizens who live within it.

[elfujitivo8777]

@jogeryjogo lol shut up hill-billy. say that to yourself first before questioning people and THEIR PRIVATE LIVES.

[davebex13]

Marriage is NOT a right.

[gaylolful]

@davebex13 Stupidity is NOT a right.

[Phoebus16]

@jogeryjogo If, truly, all men are created equal (which I am assuming that you are not arguing), then we ALL hold these rights. The US should not make laws based on one religious group's dogma, that would be unconstitutional. If that's what you are looking for, may I suggest a country that holds their religious laws as their country's laws. Such as Libya, Syria, Iraq, or Saudi Arabia.... you may fit in better there.... For that is precisely what the United States protects us against.

[logicnreason1]

@Phoebus16 The key idea here is that all men are created equal, but not all behaviors are created equal. the gay lobby keeps repeating the equal rights mantra and misapplying it to include behaviors or lifestyles.

[Phoebus16]

@logicnreason1 I agree that all behaviors are not created equal, nor should they be viewed as so. I see what you are saying, however, sexuality is not a behavior. Sexuality is not a choice, how someone acts about it IS a choice. Perversion is perversion whether it is by a gay or straight person. In that same line though, love is love, whether gay or straight.

[Phoebus16]

@TheSmiler177 Yes, an adopted child is loved just as much, sometimes even more. You know that parents that adopt really, really want the child. They aren't results of accidental pregnancies, or unplanned surprises.

[TheWhiteOp]

man America you need to get your shit together i mean you guys just seamed to have so much promise but you guys fell apart

[qw2589]

Once you remove gender requirements of one man and one woman from marriage, you create an institution that discriminates against every perversion out there.

[thomaseshuis]

@qw2589 Ridiculous statement, because marriage will still be about consenting adults. Zoophilia and paedophilia are not between consenting adults and would therefore never be seen as valid relationships. Stop making baseless and ridiculous claims to support your biggotry.

[Slotten68]

I'm wasn't expecting much from Ashton Kutcher but I had to eat it because he made a legit point. The establishment clause of the 1st Amendment is what he referenced and has been defined as the "seperation of church and state" concept. On top of that, I don't have to go though summaries of numerous Supreme Court cases to tell you that banning gay marriage rights absolutely violates the Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment. This shouldn't even be an issue, at least at the Federal level.

[pkearne]

Christ! Even when i agree with him.....what the fuck is ashton kutcher doing on this show!?

[jakle52]

Thats how you say it. yea Separate church from state

[RodTalon0000]

Thank you Ashton!

[Kruezoraxe]

You know what's really sad. We are in the financial shitter. We have no long term energy plan. Our foreign credibility is getting better but it's still pretty crappy and we're currently following in the footsteps of Rome before it collapsed.

With problems such as those, why are we talking about family values? Why are those the important issues?

[dancesonpoles]

@Kruezoraxe it is funny isn't how we put so much energy and time fighting about things that don't actually harm anyone, yet people are starving, dying, and homeless and we say, "we'll get there, but this gay issue, MUST be fixed." What??... I really can't handle people because most of them are just stupid and don't know how to think logically or compassionately. It's really sad... And I hope for humanities sake that the Abrahamic God is not real or else the bad guys will have won...

[forby77]

funny i'm a straight guy and i don't recognise the CHURCH,,, atheist's accept everyone....

[Antagoinist89]

I don't like marriage overall. Its not based love, its a business contract. Besides unmarried couples are happy than married people.

[uzi2004]

Ashton pretty much killed the debate. He had good points but he sounds like a nunnery librarian!

[CaptEm1]

@uzi2004 Yeah, and he looked like a little girl with all the hand movements and stuttering. Very feminine guy indeed.

[crocswsocks]

Wait wait wait... "SENSIBLE RELIGIOUS POSITION?"

[ktittykittylicklick9]

I think being gay is gross and weird as f*** but as long as i don't have to get married to a dude im down for people who are gay to be happy

[musepigg]

@ktittykittylicklick9 Thanks. That makes me feel so good. You, however, are a really lovely person .

[TickleMehNancy]

@ktittykittylicklick9 you only think it is gross because you have been indoctrinated that way to think that as well as express it.

[DaBearsRockMySox]

I'm a christian and i don't understand some other people's crazy views. i don't understand why in this day and age we are having a debate on whether gay people should be able to get married. everyone is looking for someone they love to share their life with, why should gay people be excluded from that?!

[Coopmueller]

@DaBearsRockMySox AMEN!

[Tonin41992]

@DaBearsRockMySox Amen, well said, I would vote for you as the next pope if Vatican respected democraty...

[afhdfh]

You go, Ashton!

[Attritive]

People should be able to create legitimate contracts regardless of sexual orientation. Dan Savage's point at 1:00 is exactly right.

[DanDan825]

I agree with Kutcher, but I wish his voice wasn't so shrill. Really hurts the ears.

[SuperLolpants]

i dont know why we cant just take marrige and give it to the churches and give cilivl unions to the the state. the state can reconise the legal rights while the church, temple ect can reconise marrige.

[Phoebus16]

@SuperLolpants I totally understand. But then I'm left wanting to feel equal and not something less than how others are treated as "normal." Maybe it's a pride thing with me, who knows....

I just came back from an "R Family" vacation packed full of couples with kids. Kids that were so smart, so well behaved, so gracious, and so respectful. I have a problem hearing that a child NEEDS one mommy and one daddy. All of these children were far better behaved than the others onboard.

[egirl150]

@Phoebus16 I see your point, but I think what superlolpants is saying that anyone who gets married by the state would have a civil union-gay or straight. Church weddings would be a religious ceremony, but have no legality.

[Phoebus16]

@SuperLolpants .....Plus, they were all happy. There was so much caring. Why not fight to be recognized as equal?

[MaNiAcaLunchBox]

@SuperLolpants i can tell you why we cant do that. because we shouldnt have to. plain and simple. seperate but equal is not by any stretch equal. as segregation of black people taught us not too long ago. although clearly the religious diddnt get the memo.

[pawndominance1]

@SuperLolpants how about the church gets no rights cause its a bunch of psychotic idiots-prop 8 is just as ashton put it-embarrassing to this country, it reminds other countries just how stupid the people in America are. The religious people should be able to put forth the arguement and then once their done-you simple say-ok well non of that matters at all because we have a constitution..and then its over

[MansonFan64]

Wow...this video made me agree with a religious person and Ashton kutcher. Hooray!

[ProbableFiction]

This whole thing is entirely unAmerican. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, therefore freedom from religious dogma. A religious dogma shouldn't be the underpinnings of law.

[Strawberryswingswing]

He looks so cute up there on the big kids table. =)

[itsbradie]

OMG! Ashton! Tell'em!

[JazBlogShow]

In America you can only get elected into any office if you say you believe in God. Now thats bullshit right there, spiritual beliefs shouldnt matter. So how is that with seperation of church and state, oh right, that only exists on paper but doesnt mean SHIT.

[popoufo]

My dogs are gay...

[xheartless12x]

wow i agree completely with ashton kutcher and have new found respect for him.... i never thought i'd see the day... but it's all good! the more ppl w/ influence on the right side the better!!! gay marriage should be legal everywhere!!!!!! yet it's illegal in most of america. some home of the free. we need some major adjustments!!

[02javis]

why isn't Fez in this discussion??

[jackschreck]

i actually just gained respect for ashton kutcher. never thought id say that.

[explizidace]

Ashton Kutcher for pres

[Conspiracyknowledge]

ahston kutcher is a little child in a grown mans body

[sidewaysfcs0718]

why are people arguing about monogamy in a clip about same sex marriage?

everyone has their own taste in sexuality ...some people like 1 partner ..some people like more

some people dont like any partners at all ...their called asexual.

[BloatedSensations]

He made a good point... but lets not get all crazy now.

[gunnarsom]

wow. ashton kutcher cares about the constitution. wonder what he thinks of the welfare state?

[mrkemrk]

Kutcher is a fucktard.

[DFWDan]

@mrkemrk

Because he is absolutely correct and obviously has a better handle on the situation than you? Or is it because he is rich and famous and gets to bang a hot cougar

[bresophil]

@mrkemrk

Agree. But he has a point.

[yankee22167]

i vote for Polygamy ....i want three wives!

[Phantom9252]

i just wanna say that Government recognized marridge is the only one that matters, cuz its the only one that can get u a tax break

[orga210]

MARRY ME ASHTON KUTCHER!!! =D

oh wait we can't, Texas don't like "teh geyz".

[japanimefan02]

I thought Ashton Kucher was a goof off, but now I have some respect for the guy. He made a very valid point.

[Plato86]

Polygamy was never "standard", any anthropologist or historian can tell you that. Dan Savage is a lying faggot,

[Phoebus16]

Polygamy was everywhere man, and if you use the word "faggot", you are a bigot and probably couldn't listen with your mind open anyway.....

[zofspade]

Polygyny exists in about 80 percent of all societies.

You're an idiot and know nothing about anthropology.

[sirhs6991]

You do know that only about 10% of all mammals practice monogamy, right? Monogamy is not standard, even with humans.

[dancesonpoles]

@Plato86 No? Read the bible. Read a history book. It most certainly was at one point in history.

[TacoforThought]

@Plato86 Have an opinion, but there's no need to be hateful.

[mickeybearlove]

wow who would have thaught that i wold have the same political views as ashton kutcher he actually seems like quite a smart person i feel bad for thinking he was probably as idiotic as his movie roles were

[america8877]

Ashton's point is great! I definitely agree with him. I never thought of things like that. What a strong and powerful point that is!

[frankystein12]

no one gives a damn about what the church thinks, people should dick slap the cult leaders of Christianity and tell them that they are losing a hopeless battle and who they can ban from marriage.

[seatyou101]

everyone who voted yes on prop 8 should've seen this clip.

[mooserocker12]

Aston Kucher is a boss in this video

[Neil2293]

he was fucking piss and i am too

[admirilawesome1]

it is absolutely preposterous how some gays still cant marry, a 18 year old is old enough to get his head blown off and not have a beer, and how people smoke there lives away with cigarrettes and kill brain cells with alcohol but cant smoke a joint.

[muellerican]

Can someone explain to me why isn't same-sex marriage covered under the full faith and credit clause of the U.S. constitution?

[Phoebus16]

Good question. Then states should recognize the marriages legally performed in other states.

[blackplatypus]

It is... and it was covered under california's constitution which is why prop 8 was brought up to change that.

[msmortician87]

@muellerican

because of DOMA

[Rattapax]

David had many wives as well as Abraham.

[mcdreamyy1]

ashton cutcher just lost all my respect gay supporter fuck dis guy

[Phoebus16]

See, that's the risk of saying you support gays if you are a celebrity. Bigots get upset.

[YouDickwod]

lol

[mari55lyn]

Fuck You!! :D

For hating a person && what they support.. OkkAYY!!!!

Ignorant Bitch : ]

[PurushaDesa]

What the fuck, mcdreamy1? Did you seriously think Ashton Kutcher was gonna be some homophobic fucktard being constantly surrounded by gay people and liberal minded co-stars like Cameron Diaz and Amanda Peet and Seann William Scott and Brittany Murphy, etc., etc.? You thought him and all those people hated gays? Are you insane?

[takerhbkfan]

@mcdreamyy1 Well I guess Ashton doesn't need a bigot like you as a fan

[explizidace]

@mcdreamyy1

Well, fuck YOU sir. I admire Cutcher's standpoint and I agree 100%.

[BloodThirstyScott1]

I fucking love Ashton Cutcher I can feel his anger and im glad he's passionate about this issue!

[pdaniels9000]

what's funny is that this was the argument i came up with when i was like 15 years old. Ashton Kutcher is just an actor with an opinion! Why do they care about what he thinks?

[Phoebus16]

Yeah, I get that, but it IS nice that a celebrity will come out in support of it. Could be a risk on their part.

[YouDickwod]

exactly

[csipy5]

The REAL problem with gay people is NOT the bible and religion.Of course for some brailess idiots it is.The REAL problem is that beeing gay is a sexual orientation and most of the times learnable.Just look at the prisons and it is just an example.Beeing gay is "cool" and it means to be different,just what every teeneger dream about.Just look how many gay are in US and how many in Europe.

[Phoebus16]

What are you, Stupid? You are comparing people trapped together for years with people who have feelings for each other. It's proven that homosexuality is not a choice, nor can it be successfully deprogrammed. And there are gay people all around the world, we are just lucky that we can talk more openly about it here.

[Faryndreyn]

If you knew anything about gay people you would know that men in prisons are not gay. The men that engage in rape in prisons are not doing so because of sex. Rape is never about sex it's about power. Men in prison do this in order to enforce their power on other inmates, not because of attraction.

[Clempath]

Or because they can't get a congical visit, I hope I spelled that right, lol. But you are right, but when you have no women there, you still have "needs" so I guess that's another reason they might do it.

[SilentFishHeads]

Being gay is "cool"? Uhh kids get bullied enough but gay kids get the shit beat outta them and named called and tormented yea they chose to be a abused minority.

Although I thank you for not throwing scripture and Jesus's name into this.

[nakiommi]

since when was being gay "cool"?

People like you are so ignorant and oblivious and just have word vomit on just about every video on youtube. Being gay is something that has always been looked down upon by people LIKE you. It isn't something that is learnable and if you honestly think that than try your hardest to learn how to be gay, ok and when you've learned to be gay then come back and show me that you are now gay. oh wait you probably couldn't because sexuality is not something u can learn

[fauxindigo]

that guy is so right. people are getting divorced everyday. people are committing adultery every day. and yet you don't see these 'religious' folk going after these "SINNERS"- it's all about oppressing the gays!!!

[DaHonestAbe]

Dan Savage vs Michael Savage. That would be interesting, lol!

[SSBMJunky]

Prediction:

Dan debates Michael to the point of insanity, he goes on a maddened CHRISTIAN RAGE!!! and kills Dan. He goes to jail and the gay activist movement gets stronger :P

[newwavewitch]

Why is that guy arguing with DAN FUCKING SAVAGE? Doesn't he know that Dan IS God?

[brantheman216]

I can't stand Ashton Kutcher, but he's actually speaking the absolute truth.

[icl4ntic]

He honestly sounds like a prepubescent though ._.

[RealTime88]

Prop 8 SHOULD NOT have been on the damn ballot. Let 2 people get married who love each other. There is NO traditional marriage. It HAS changed for thousands of years: property exchange, no one could get divorce now the divorce rate is 50%. I think gay people will handle marriage better than the angry straight folks will.

[emergencyexit16]

well, people don't know this..but ASHTON HAS A DEGREE IN BIOCHEMISTRY...he lucked out into modeling and acting....

[rinflowers]

You mean we have a smart pretty-boy? For realsy?!

[PapaMagnum]

Dan Savage is a pretty smart guy, I want to see him debate a megachurch person on the gay marriage issue.

[therrydicule]

Worst: number 2 is a paradox since some people worship graven image with the number 2 on it.

[sox4d]

haha, aston thinks he's smart for stating the obvious. in front of these intellectuals he just looks like some retard kid

[Acidicy]

But he's not trying to be intellectual about it, he's just expressing his emotion on the subject

[clemssss]

apparently ppl are not smart enuff to know the obvious so...

[RealTime88]

Marriage has been redefined for years as Mr. Savage said. It has NOT been the same since the beginging of time. And I think two people who love each other should be able to get married. There is NO traditional marriage.

[llouldeng]

Why not 3 people?

[JeremySalas]

YAY!

[castorudaramat]

HLGxFeaR

amin!u`r so right!

[HLGxFeaR]

Oh for Gods sake!! This is 2008. Can we just recognize that all people are created equal??? Some are straight, some are gay, some are black, some are white.

[grotop]

@HLGxFeaR Please include atheist too!! :) thanks!

[ProbableFiction]

@HLGxFeaR Yes, and unfortunately some are stupid.

[MannyTheCamper]

@HLGxFeaR NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE CREATED EQUAL!!!!!!!!! WHEN WILL YOU GOD DAMNED PEOPLE GET THIS THROUGH YOUR FUCKINGF HEADS????  EVERYONE IS NOT CREATED EQUAL!!!!! GOD DAMN!!!!!!

[Phoebus16]

@MannyTheCamper Free speech is one thing, but yelling like a madman doesn't have to do with free speech. Say it like an adult, if you are one. People can respectfully disagree without yelling and cursing, if they can't, they should wait until they learn to do so before speaking or discussing.

[Me4475]

mbell2034: Do your research. You are repeating a meme that you have heard over and over. I used to believe it as well. The TRUTH is that several of our most famous founders ABHORRED the intersection of Church and State, of God and Country. This is all well-documented.

[Me4475]

Ashton just got 10+ intelligence and uber-hot points. I knew his "dude" act was just that....an act. You know Demi Moore couldn't be wrong. : )

[kelphis79]

"It means that there will be no state religion established. That's it. "

nope. It means that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. It does not mean that congress shall make no law that creates a state religion even though that falls into it. Congress can NOT pass any law that gives any special respect over another. And it also Can not pass any law that prohibits your free exercise of one or another.

[Phoebus16]

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

[Phoebus16]

The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court

[atlanteavila]

The First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, under the incorporation doctrine, certain selected provisions were applied to states. Not until recently did congress support your view of "separation".

Do you not know this country was founded in the belief of one God? THE GOD OF THE BIBLE!

[theothertube]

Ashton int. +1

[funkyverooo]

okay, ashton is officially smart