FMP - Mark Wells on Afro-Peruvians and an apology from the Peruvian government

[Pianrot]

wrong information in this Vid!! Aztecs and Mayans are from Mexico and other central american countries not From Peru , Peru had the Inca Empire only.

[caloncho33]

conchasumadre!!!?

[faniaman]

@Salsassin Yes, Moyano is recognized...and believe it or not, there is nothing to commemorate the works of the great Nicomedes Santa Cruz. I mean, at least a small square, statue or even a street would be respectful for his legacy. Much is left to be done on Afro Peruvians' social status and recognition. It's the most discriminated ethnic group and more marginalized group in Peru.

[victormanueification]

@faniaman Maybe you're not counting the people from the rainforest as peruvians who live in average no more than 55 years, or the andean people living in the small villages of Apurimac, Huancavelica and ayacucho who live in extreme poverty or the aymaras from Puno who every year die with the friaje ( extreme cold weather on the highlands ), don;t make a distinction between discriminated peruvians because even the asian peruvians were discriminated aybe it;s slowly changing but ....

[victormanueification]

@victormanueification We need real improvements To be represented by lawmakers of each of the races discriminated only changed the surface of the discrimination but the changes didn;t go deep in the structure of this unequal society. Nicomedes and Victoria Santa Cruz were not only pushing to be cultural accepted they were trying to make the afroperuvians proud of their roots and at the same time to accept there were other races and ethnical groups discriminated in Peru.....

[victormanueification]

@victormanueification African peruvians are not more than 3 % because they were mixing with the native peruvians, or with the mixed peruvians or with the white peruvians, But probably 10 % of the peruvians have also african roots. I didn't know I have african roots until two weeks ago but if you see me you can't tell it and if someone would say my mom has african roots you will laugh at them because she looks caucasian, If I trace my origins I;ll tell you at least 3 continents are involved

[Salsassin]

Maria Elena Moyano is recognized. In fact there is a monument/statue of her in Villa El Salvador. Her sister is a congresswoman. Marta Moyano.

[ProjectBaitDET]

@Salsassin

Thanks so much for your response! Do you live in Peru? I will make a note of all of the info you shared. I took a look at the wiki page on Luis Miguel Sánchez Cerro and it does mention his African ancestry. But I wonder, was he actually recognized or self-identified as black? He looks like the type of person who most likely didn't see himself as black or afrodescendiente.

[Salsassin]

@ProjectBaitDET

Well, he saw himself as Malgache. Malagasy. The problem with pictures is that they can vary heavily. I have a picture of his brothers where they look like Dominicans or Panamanians. Of course, with Black and White photography, you can have a lot of lightening with flash, or the opposite, orthochromatic film can make people with red in the complexion look much darker.

I was born and raised in Peru. Now I live in the US.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin What is looking Dominican or Panamanian? Anyone could be these thongs! Lol

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

I'm trying to give him a reference point he might identify with. Where the "stereotype' tends to be more Afro. If I said Argentina, even though there are Afro-Argentinos, would that give a good visual to someone who hasn't seen Afro-Argentinos?

[chsn09]

@Salsassin You emailed them? I spoke to them

and met them actually!

[Salsassin]

There are no Peruvian shows aimed at ANY ethnicity in Peru. If anything, they just need more involvement by AfroPeruvians in the Media. Notable Afroperuvians in the Media: Alejandro Romero Cáceres, Tatiana Espinoza, Miguel Barraza, Fernando Espinoza Bernal, Rafael Santa Cruz. But no where close to a fair representation of 7%.

[Salsassin]

That is actually incorrect. Peru has had a president of African descent: Luis Miguel Sánchez Cerro.

[Salsassin]

Actually, the Commission for Truth in Peru did an extensive survey. While genetically the Afrodescendants could be much higher, People that know of some African ancestry are 7% and those that identify as Black (In Peru that actually means dark skinned usually vs just afrodescendiente) specifically are 2%. That is still 2,039,241 people or 1 & 1/2 times the population of Trinidad & Tobago.

[Salsassin]

The Aztecs and Maya have nothing to do with Peru. He may have been thinking of Aymara.

[chsn09]

FLAMENCO is actually of AFRO PERUVIAN origin and is the roots and led to the creation of what is today known as Spanish/Spaniard flamenco!

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Flamenco is NOT Afro-Peruvian. It is of Roma (People of India) origin. The cajón they play is Afro-Peruvian. Roma influenced Criollo music as well. If you listen to out music, it is Afro, Hispanic, Indigenous, but within the 'Hispanic' there are two strong non-European trends. Moro and Gitano (Roma). Many Roma migrated to the Americas to avoid persecution from the Inquisition.

[chsn09]

When slaves in Peru were chained, they tried to create music and some kind of entertainment to escape the reality they were faced with.

[chsn09]

cont'd... They sat on top of fruit baskets and used them as drums called the Cajon. Ironically, the Spaniards took the "Cajon" and adapted it to Flamenco. The Spaniards also took the Zapateo, a form of dance that is a native of Afro-Peruvians. Though danced somewhat differently, Flamenco has its root in the African culture of Peru. The Cajon (or Box) in Spanish Flamenco is Afro-Peruvian, not European.

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

You can quote secondary sources that are inaccurate all day long. You will still be wrong. Spaniards did not take jack to Spain. It was an Afro-Peruvian, in  the 1970's that gave a Flamenco player a Cajon.

Flamenco comes directly from the Roma dances.

[chsn09]

This is from a source I had read and found a long time ago! It said that the flamenco has its roots in the Afro Peruvian culture! So that source was inaccurate then you are telling me?

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

I know your source. afrolatino TV is not a source you found a long time ago. And yes, it is inaccurate.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Yeah I read that source a long time ago, actually! And wow, I can't believe that is inaccurate, and I spoke to the proudcer and all and everything! Hmm! Are you going to correct them/it?

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

I emailed them.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin How do you know for sure that Flamenco comes from Roma/Gypsies??

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Look at the videos. You will see the canto and the precursors of the castañuelas.

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Cool. No I have not met them. Last I remember they were promoting the Olmec theory. Are they still doing that?

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Yeah lol! I met with them! They are just exploring the theory of Olmecs being African. I have mixed feelings about that! In high school white teachers taught us that artifacts show that Olmecs must have been an African civilization due to migration of Africans in an era Pre Columbus!

[Salsassin]

@chsn09 Show them my videos.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin

Oh ok I see your point! Yeah but do you think there is any African or Afro Peruvian element to Peru? And I spoke to and with the producers of Afro Latinos TV in person! Lol

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Of course there is an African element to Peru. Post 1492

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Is there an African and/or Afro Peruvian element to Flamenco I meant?? Lol

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

African, probably, in Spain. But not Afro-Peruvian.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Hmm then where did you think the info about the Afro Peruvians being the roots of flamenco came in from??

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Conflation

There was a Peruvian Cajon in Gypsy music, and both used a form of zapateo, so they conflated both and moved it back a few centuries.

[chsn09]

@Salsassin

I will definitely show them your videos if I meet with them again! And yeah where do most Afrodescendants in Peru live? What parts of Peru do blacks and mixed blacks live in Peru? Where are they concentrated mainly in Peru? Are they a diverse widespread group??

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Interesting! Where did you hear this! I will definitely remember this! Before or after a read a source on something I will come to you first so I am nit fed inaccurate information!

[chsn09]

@Salsassin Colombia has the largest Gypsy/Roma descent population in Latin America right?? And what areas of Peru have the highest Afro Peruvian populations? Which areas are Sfro Peruvians most prevalently found? Do Afro Peruvians inhabit all areas?

[Salsassin]

@chsn09

Chile and Brazil. Pull up wiki on Afro Peruvians in Spanish. I helped write it.