is it normal to have so much background noise when ATC is communicating with the pilots? because it would be very hard to listen to the commands then...
A great example of why aviation is very safe- the professionalism of the flight crew, the air traffic controller and the durability of the aircraft itself.
Chapeau to the Heathrow Controller ! Top Notch guys , Well Trained and Epic situation awareness .. Dealing with the situation as if he has been expecting or briefed about it in few seconds shows how professional those guys are !
Ice formation in the fuel... Does that mean the fuel in Beijing was sub-par? I fly out of PEK several times a year. Always worried about some BS like that happening!
@woot123sexyparty design flaw in the face of the fuel-oil heat exchanger. was easily fixed by making it's surface flat, and not having any of the tubes protruding.
@goodol69 fuel was sampled and found to be fine. there was a design flaw in the face of the fuel-oil heat exchanger. All exchangers have since been replaced with flat intake faces
Again, this is a fantastic piece of airmanship by the ATC controller. The crash happens at 0:48 seconds. He orders BA229 to hold position, initiates fire response, gets Qatari 011 to start the go-around and then gets the third in line, BA 479 to do a visual switch to 27R, during which Fire enters the runway and is passing on their initial observations, then a quick call to approach to close 27L and switch all arrivals in the pattern to 27R. All done in just shy of 90 seconds. Well trained...
The air traffic controller is one cool cucumber. Situational awareness is top notch, notifying fire response, initiating the Qatari go-around, passing that situational awareness onto the approach controller all in a matter of seconds is a perfect example of mult-tasking, professionalism and getting it right the first time. As we all know, these situations offer no second chances. Very well done.
@IAmCanadianUK yeah considering there is around 90 seconds or so between landings means chaos when there is any problem let alone a crash closing a runway. it must be stressful having to act so quickly to tell qatari to go around and ba479 as well as preventing any other aproaches.
Why is all this nonsense speculation going on when the cause of the accident as discovered by the AAIB has been published already?
The investigation identified the following probable causal factors that led to the fuel flow restrictions:
1) Accreted ice from within the fuel system[1] released, causing a restriction to the engine fuel flow at the face of the FOHE, on both of the engines.
@docmi100 maybe.. it sounded continuous though.. and i believe that the autopilot was already off when they made the call. the "pull up" call can also be heard though.
both the tanks that could have run out on final are the wing tanks which had masses of fuel on landing the only tank that was empty was the center tank which wasnt in use and had been empty since amsterdam so couldnt have been the source. the 2 engines are definatly fed through the same fohe as it wasnt and i dont think it is now required to have seperate fohes as they arent considered key components.
The reason I think it was a fuel management error is because I've seen it while riding jump seat on a non-revenue test flight. A pilot wanted to balance the fuel load by switching both engines to one tank. He even hung a red streamer from the switch to remind himself to switch back to both tanks before landing. In that case he remembered. Maybe the pilots in this case didn't remember. It can happen. It's happened before.
No matter what, I think the likelihood of both engines flaming out in rapid successioin is extremely remote. I think you guys are looking for zebras instead of horses. What's more likely, that the 777 design is flawed, or pilot error? In my opinion I think BA just didn't want to be supremely embarrassed, that's all. And then there is the question of liability and insurance rates.
@JetMechMA the ice blocked the fohe(fuel oil heat exchanger which feeds both engines through the same system. it would be unthinkable that a pilot would make the error of reducing both engines to flight idle and not noticing for 30 seconds. also the auto throtle was in comand at the time of the rollback so the pilot couldnt have caused it. had he pulled back both throtles though, a system called atr (automatic thrust restoration) would increase thrust to normal thrust readings .
@airplanes66 No, no, what I was theorizing was that the pilots had switched both engines onto one tank and forgot to switch back to normal ops before landing. That's my theory. Both engines are NOT fed through the same FOHE. ETOPS principles mandates that each engine has it's own totally independent fuel supply. That's true of ALL big twins. Regulations mandates that each engine be on it's own fuel supply before landing. Just exactly so this sort of thing can't happen.
What is the likelihood of ice blockage on BOTH engines at EXACTLY the same moment? I'd say next to ZERO. I'm not buying it. Something else happened here. I don't know what, but something like a blockage wouldn't happen at exactly the same moment.
@JetMechMA What happened is while flying over Russia the outside temp dropped below -20c at this temperature ice won't stick to the fuel pipes but as the temp got warmer between -8c and -20c the ice turns slushy and becomes very sticky which then stuck to the sides of the fuel pipes this wouldn't be enough to down the plane but the FOHE (Fuel Oil Heat Exchanger) which is designed to heat up the fuel to stop ice forming got clogged with ice just before landing after the autothrottle suddenly...
@JetMechMA …increased the fuel flow this caused the ice that had stuck to the pipes to brake off thus blocking the FOHE and restricting fuel flow to the engines (and yes both engines are affected because before the fuel enters the engines it goes through the FOHE and then splits off into each engine). Please get your facts straight before you go saying this is impossible or wouldn’t happen to both engines. Thanks! ; )
@NinjaCourgaR NO twin engined aircraft feeds fuel to both engines through a common choke point. That's insane. You better check the MM on that. For your information, the FOHE is mounted on each engine. Each engine has it's own heat exchangers. ALL 777s and all modern twin jets have totally independent fuel systems...left and right. Either side can feed both but for take-off and landing each engine MUST....by law...be feeding off of it's own independent fuel tank. That's the law.
@JetMechMA There was about 8 seconds difference between the first engine and the second rolling back. Both sides of the aircraft were subject to the same conditions, so it makes sense that both engines would be similarly affected.
@tswsl1989 No it doesn't. That doesn't stand to reason. Twin engine operations are VERY safe. I'm just not buying this ice story. I think they were transfering fuel trying to fix a minor imbalance and forgot to switch back to both tanks for landing.....and then the two engines ran one tank dry. That's my guess. I think they are human and they made a human error. If that's the case then my sympathies are with the pilots because it can be easy to make such a unforgiving mistake.
@JetMechMA That's not what the AAIB concluded. If it had been pilot error it would have been found as such. There was no authority 'cover up'. If there HAD been a cover up, BA would have been complicit, and the fact they invited Captain Burkhill back to the company after he'd decided to take retirement rather contradicts your theory. Rolls Royce, Boeing and BA worked on solving this issue together. Also, do you realise the identical problem befell an Delta 777 inflight?
@JetMechMA the 777 wasnt and isnt fundementally flawed however there was a hidden flaw with the engines that meant under certian curcumstances the engines could recive insuficiant fuel (delta shanghai flight is other example) in this case though the relativly minor problem crippled both engines close to the ground and at low speed so there was limited time to recover and the crew did the best with the 30 or so seconds they had
@airplanes66 No matter what any of you say, the design of the 777 did not shut down both engines simultaneously. However, as one person said, there was a few seconds delay betwen the first flame-out and the second. Yeah, about the length of fuel line when both engines had been switched onto the same tank. The engine nearest to the tank flames out first, and the engine on the other wing lasts a little bit longer, by the amount of fuel in the lines being suction fed. ...in my opinion.
@opollard Yes, that picture you see with the (1) is the actual Aircraft. Those Pictures only got released a year or so ago. Can't remember the link though!
you can hear the GPWS in the background during the mayday call saying "pull up, pull up" the sound at 0:53 could be the aircraft's stall warning stickshaker being transmitted on the mic.
Excellent work by ATC in the tower. You can hear by his voice that he is terribly nervous but he keeps his cool and sorts things out quickly. Hats off.
i might as well say im actually glad i thanked the crew myself when we crashed. i will tell you now i was 10 at the time and when we crashed i had such and impact i ended up with fuctured ribs yet still managed to get down the shoots
While the flight crew were heros....I hear no praise for the ATC....!
amc3 5 days ago
is it normal to have so much background noise when ATC is communicating with the pilots? because it would be very hard to listen to the commands then...
blbl8326 1 week ago
A great example of why aviation is very safe- the professionalism of the flight crew, the air traffic controller and the durability of the aircraft itself.
anneframpton 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
DiamondPilotDan 2 weeks ago
yeah you're right it's warning of terrain.
docmi100 3 weeks ago
Chapeau to the Heathrow Controller ! Top Notch guys , Well Trained and Epic situation awareness .. Dealing with the situation as if he has been expecting or briefed about it in few seconds shows how professional those guys are !
MSR738 1 month ago 2
Ice formation in the fuel... Does that mean the fuel in Beijing was sub-par? I fly out of PEK several times a year. Always worried about some BS like that happening!
goodol69 1 month ago
@goodol69 No, the ice was caused by the badly-designed fuel system, not the fuel itself.
woot123sexyparty 1 month ago
@woot123sexyparty design flaw in the face of the fuel-oil heat exchanger. was easily fixed by making it's surface flat, and not having any of the tubes protruding.
DiamondPilotDan 2 weeks ago
@goodol69 fuel was sampled and found to be fine. there was a design flaw in the face of the fuel-oil heat exchanger. All exchangers have since been replaced with flat intake faces
DiamondPilotDan 2 weeks ago
Again, this is a fantastic piece of airmanship by the ATC controller. The crash happens at 0:48 seconds. He orders BA229 to hold position, initiates fire response, gets Qatari 011 to start the go-around and then gets the third in line, BA 479 to do a visual switch to 27R, during which Fire enters the runway and is passing on their initial observations, then a quick call to approach to close 27L and switch all arrivals in the pattern to 27R. All done in just shy of 90 seconds. Well trained...
IAmCanadianUK 2 months ago 12
What is the significance of the 95, as in 'Speedbird 95...95'?
Did he just say the wrong flight number in the stress of the moment?
ChickenRiceMushrooms 2 months ago
@ChickenRiceMushrooms i have heard that it is a training flight number which meant that he used what he was trained for
airplanes66 2 months ago
@ChickenRiceMushrooms that was the retern leg he was flying to beijing
MrAVFC2011 1 month ago
@ChickenRiceMushrooms
Yeah, I think so...Numbers and codes are changed on almost every leg, so the captain maybe recently flew a "95" and that's what stuck in his head...
bluetires12 4 weeks ago
@bluetires12 Speedbird 95 is the c/s they use in the sim for emergency training apparently and he reverted to that.
Cavannaro 4 weeks ago
0:24 was this picture taken some seconds before crash?
Bruchpilot1995 2 months ago
The air traffic controller is one cool cucumber. Situational awareness is top notch, notifying fire response, initiating the Qatari go-around, passing that situational awareness onto the approach controller all in a matter of seconds is a perfect example of mult-tasking, professionalism and getting it right the first time. As we all know, these situations offer no second chances. Very well done.
IAmCanadianUK 2 months ago 3
@IAmCanadianUK yeah considering there is around 90 seconds or so between landings means chaos when there is any problem let alone a crash closing a runway. it must be stressful having to act so quickly to tell qatari to go around and ba479 as well as preventing any other aproaches.
airplanes66 2 months ago
Why is all this nonsense speculation going on when the cause of the accident as discovered by the AAIB has been published already?
The investigation identified the following probable causal factors that led to the fuel flow restrictions:
1) Accreted ice from within the fuel system[1] released, causing a restriction to the engine fuel flow at the face of the FOHE, on both of the engines.
2)....
Can be found on the AAIB website under G-YMMM
barbour112 2 months ago
@barbour112 under 2008 g-ymmm
airplanes66 2 months ago
At 0:46 the Ground Proximity Warning System can be heard - for anyone who doesn't know it's the warning that says 'whoop whoop, pull up'.
tomasjames92 2 months ago
@tomasjames92
No, it's autopilot disengage sound
docmi100 3 weeks ago
@docmi100 I'm pretty sure that between 0:45-0:47 you can hear a 'pull up'. Perhaps it was warning of both terrain and autopilot disconnect?
tomasjames92 3 weeks ago
@docmi100 maybe.. it sounded continuous though.. and i believe that the autopilot was already off when they made the call. the "pull up" call can also be heard though.
DiamondPilotDan 2 weeks ago
@DiamondPilotDan yes autopilot was disengaged it was sound of GPWS
docmi100 2 weeks ago
Wow! Very intense, i think he handled the situation very well.
shmily947 2 months ago
both the tanks that could have run out on final are the wing tanks which had masses of fuel on landing the only tank that was empty was the center tank which wasnt in use and had been empty since amsterdam so couldnt have been the source. the 2 engines are definatly fed through the same fohe as it wasnt and i dont think it is now required to have seperate fohes as they arent considered key components.
airplanes66 2 months ago
The reason I think it was a fuel management error is because I've seen it while riding jump seat on a non-revenue test flight. A pilot wanted to balance the fuel load by switching both engines to one tank. He even hung a red streamer from the switch to remind himself to switch back to both tanks before landing. In that case he remembered. Maybe the pilots in this case didn't remember. It can happen. It's happened before.
JetMechMA 2 months ago
No matter what, I think the likelihood of both engines flaming out in rapid successioin is extremely remote. I think you guys are looking for zebras instead of horses. What's more likely, that the 777 design is flawed, or pilot error? In my opinion I think BA just didn't want to be supremely embarrassed, that's all. And then there is the question of liability and insurance rates.
JetMechMA 3 months ago
@JetMechMA the ice blocked the fohe(fuel oil heat exchanger which feeds both engines through the same system. it would be unthinkable that a pilot would make the error of reducing both engines to flight idle and not noticing for 30 seconds. also the auto throtle was in comand at the time of the rollback so the pilot couldnt have caused it. had he pulled back both throtles though, a system called atr (automatic thrust restoration) would increase thrust to normal thrust readings .
airplanes66 2 months ago
@airplanes66 No, no, what I was theorizing was that the pilots had switched both engines onto one tank and forgot to switch back to normal ops before landing. That's my theory. Both engines are NOT fed through the same FOHE. ETOPS principles mandates that each engine has it's own totally independent fuel supply. That's true of ALL big twins. Regulations mandates that each engine be on it's own fuel supply before landing. Just exactly so this sort of thing can't happen.
JetMechMA 2 months ago
i like the video, but im going to be the first one to dislike anyway :)
Krazy48Killer 3 months ago
@Krazy48Killer _|_
afgrocks123 2 months ago
How cool was the ATC guy???? Pat on the back for him!!
w3cvw 4 months ago
What is the likelihood of ice blockage on BOTH engines at EXACTLY the same moment? I'd say next to ZERO. I'm not buying it. Something else happened here. I don't know what, but something like a blockage wouldn't happen at exactly the same moment.
JetMechMA 5 months ago
@JetMechMA tempreatures is the same horisontal but not vertical, remember that
TheSelnes 5 months ago
@TheSelnes Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
JetMechMA 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JetMechMA Ice in the fuel filter, in other words, both engines can be affected
TheSelnes 3 months ago
@TheSelnes Ice in the fuel filter, in other words, both engines can be affected
TheSelnes 5 months ago 4
@JetMechMA What happened is while flying over Russia the outside temp dropped below -20c at this temperature ice won't stick to the fuel pipes but as the temp got warmer between -8c and -20c the ice turns slushy and becomes very sticky which then stuck to the sides of the fuel pipes this wouldn't be enough to down the plane but the FOHE (Fuel Oil Heat Exchanger) which is designed to heat up the fuel to stop ice forming got clogged with ice just before landing after the autothrottle suddenly...
NinjaCourgaR 4 months ago
@JetMechMA …increased the fuel flow this caused the ice that had stuck to the pipes to brake off thus blocking the FOHE and restricting fuel flow to the engines (and yes both engines are affected because before the fuel enters the engines it goes through the FOHE and then splits off into each engine). Please get your facts straight before you go saying this is impossible or wouldn’t happen to both engines. Thanks! ; )
NinjaCourgaR 4 months ago
@NinjaCourgaR NO twin engined aircraft feeds fuel to both engines through a common choke point. That's insane. You better check the MM on that. For your information, the FOHE is mounted on each engine. Each engine has it's own heat exchangers. ALL 777s and all modern twin jets have totally independent fuel systems...left and right. Either side can feed both but for take-off and landing each engine MUST....by law...be feeding off of it's own independent fuel tank. That's the law.
JetMechMA 4 months ago
@JetMechMA There was about 8 seconds difference between the first engine and the second rolling back. Both sides of the aircraft were subject to the same conditions, so it makes sense that both engines would be similarly affected.
tswsl1989 4 months ago
@tswsl1989 No it doesn't. That doesn't stand to reason. Twin engine operations are VERY safe. I'm just not buying this ice story. I think they were transfering fuel trying to fix a minor imbalance and forgot to switch back to both tanks for landing.....and then the two engines ran one tank dry. That's my guess. I think they are human and they made a human error. If that's the case then my sympathies are with the pilots because it can be easy to make such a unforgiving mistake.
JetMechMA 4 months ago
@JetMechMA That's not what the AAIB concluded. If it had been pilot error it would have been found as such. There was no authority 'cover up'. If there HAD been a cover up, BA would have been complicit, and the fact they invited Captain Burkhill back to the company after he'd decided to take retirement rather contradicts your theory. Rolls Royce, Boeing and BA worked on solving this issue together. Also, do you realise the identical problem befell an Delta 777 inflight?
TheMightyHartley 4 months ago
@TheMightyHartley If what you say is true, it would mean that the 777 is a fundamentally unsafe aircraft. I don't think that's the case at all.
JetMechMA 4 months ago
@JetMechMA the 777 wasnt and isnt fundementally flawed however there was a hidden flaw with the engines that meant under certian curcumstances the engines could recive insuficiant fuel (delta shanghai flight is other example) in this case though the relativly minor problem crippled both engines close to the ground and at low speed so there was limited time to recover and the crew did the best with the 30 or so seconds they had
(apologies for the terrible spelling
airplanes66 3 months ago
@airplanes66 No matter what any of you say, the design of the 777 did not shut down both engines simultaneously. However, as one person said, there was a few seconds delay betwen the first flame-out and the second. Yeah, about the length of fuel line when both engines had been switched onto the same tank. The engine nearest to the tank flames out first, and the engine on the other wing lasts a little bit longer, by the amount of fuel in the lines being suction fed. ...in my opinion.
JetMechMA 3 months ago
love how the ATC just tell Quatari011 to go-around in the middle of the chaos :)
TheSelnes 5 months ago 4
ATC training paid off in that situation
fsxlucas1 5 months ago in playlist playlist 3
@opollard Yes, that picture you see with the (1) is the actual Aircraft. Those Pictures only got released a year or so ago. Can't remember the link though!
HeathrowSpottingHD 5 months ago
any casualties?
ShalemariTV 5 months ago
don't you just love when people try to top and act like they know more than a professional? haha
fs2004AF 5 months ago
What a skilled controler! well done to him!
jakem1900 5 months ago
i wana work in a BA as pilot but ihave to be really skilled at flying...
sandgar1001 5 months ago
no wonder BA crews and heathrow crews are one of the best in the world.
Nicshooter 6 months ago
That stall warning sound is really creepy and scary.
3GM65D 6 months ago
you can hear the GPWS in the background during the mayday call saying "pull up, pull up" the sound at 0:53 could be the aircraft's stall warning stickshaker being transmitted on the mic.
dave46563 7 months ago
teriffic work done by the BA crew and Heathrow ATC
dave46563 7 months ago
Excellent work by ATC in the tower. You can hear by his voice that he is terribly nervous but he keeps his cool and sorts things out quickly. Hats off.
grimmrad 8 months ago 2
Tower contorller doing a great job there. Nice vid.
somethingtoremember1 10 months ago 2
when was this?¿?¿
pilotsuperone1992 11 months ago
@pilotsuperone1992 17th January 2008
dave46563 7 months ago
i might as well say im actually glad i thanked the crew myself when we crashed. i will tell you now i was 10 at the time and when we crashed i had such and impact i ended up with fuctured ribs yet still managed to get down the shoots
stephwellergymnast 1 year ago
Amazing ATC!
jacknesteruk 1 year ago 2
5/5
BadrMishal 1 year ago
Note how the captain praises his cabin crew , they are not just flying waiters.
bermudarailway 1 year ago 20
In the transcript, it's not "medical problem", it's "nature of problem".
hmbpnz 1 year ago 18
@hmbpnz no, it's not. you are wrong, the transcript is correct.
DiamondPilotDan 2 weeks ago
@DiamondPilotDan interesting. My bad. "Medical problem....is CRASH" didn't sound right. Sorry.
hmbpnz 2 weeks ago
@hmbpnz its sopose to be nature of problem
wtfsincerlyjapan 1 week ago
@wtfsincerlyjapan Thank you, that's what it sounded like to me, but I was "corrected" by someone.
hmbpnz 1 week ago
Those guys in ATC sound really switched on and professional considering the amount of info and events taking place at one time.
MrVulcan09 1 year ago
At Least Only The B777 That Was Lost-You Can Buy A New One. But Should There Was A Fatality, You Can't Buy Them Back.
COD04MW 1 year ago
What website in the picture at 0:52 on?
pppppppppppppppppsds 1 year ago
really nice... its good to see how the controller handles the situations and the procedures on ths kinda situation.
luiscurtolo 1 year ago
5/5 nice
kurdman12345678 1 year ago
Intresting=)
5-5
thefsx1 2 years ago