@MaryWaterton Um, yeah, talking about a call to life and love is sure some really evil stuff. Honestly, here do you get off saying something like that? What about "judge not" and well, if you listened to the Bishop, "love one another?"
@Ruffdogg21 Yes, I don't think this guy is completly right. Because to be married as an homosexuel its not right. Why all the nature and the animals are not homosexuel. You know why BECAUSE ITS NOT NATURAL !!! This bishop have to heal them insteed of marry them. If the flowers are homosexuelle how is it possible for those guys to offers the flowers to their loved one. It's IMPOSSIBLE; The only thing we can do is to have compassion. Otherwise the life will be like "the children of men" movie
@MegaDudu999 all nature and animals are not homosexual? are you fucking stupid? of course it exists in nature. sorry to burst your little balloon there.
@leptismagna10 No sorry you yourself are fucking stupid and you don't want to heal yourself. Witch is a probleme. I understand the homosexuality that for sure. But to marry someone like you it's fucking crazy as this world is. The nature is well done. When you have female plog with male plog you have light. When you have male plog with male plog you have no light. Your worild is full of darkness.
@Ruffdogg21 Its not difficult if you are a woman to find a man who has a lot of female energy and for a man to find a woman who has a lot of male energy. Then everything can match. Because deeply inside it is what we search. Why do we have to be especially with someone who has the same sexe ? I don't understand.
@MegaDudu999 You are right. Hands down....I agree. I just don't understand and don't want anything to do with it. I don't hate them or nothing like that..they just disgust me unless they are hot women.
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Check it out on godhatesshrimp dot kom.Praise Leviticus...NOT
Its amazing how many religious people think their interpretation of what should be gods word is the only correct one. As if...gods word was their own....as if they were god themselves. The irony of it all...
The Bible was really written by a man under a tree. He was bored one day and decided to impose his ideas on everyone else. Then he had a jew promote it.
Now this is just awesome! That's the Jesus I teach... but religion has blinded the masses... God help us all to see the true Jesus, that is hidden by religion!
the usual "Christendom" balderdash of applying Scripture to everybody. Christianity was founded by Christ not so Christians can turn this world into a better one but so the true God may be worshipped and glorified among His own people and so His people, not the entire world, may live according to His precepts handed down to His apostles using the Scriptures as their guide which means the Scriptures were written only for His people. Check out Romans 15, 1 Cor 10, you humanists.
I have been an atheist ever since my mid teen years, and the talks Bishop Spong truly make rational sense to me. I really do admire the way he preaches.
As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge THE WORLD, but to SAVE IT. (Did Jesus screw up and not do it?)
The love? The mercy? The life? The acceptance? The forgiveness? The light? No wonder the evil influence is bigger than ever in the church. Break down the faith and start over new with the trueness of the Word and Jesus originally found Church! God is love and nothing else that is all you need to know. Do not follow man follow God only.
True this man is a breathe of fresh air between all the brainwashed and twisted preachers. Too many have twisted the Word too long. Crucifixtion, women's rights, condeming God all catholic's fear tactics invented by catholics. Christians worship the cross a torture deveice, proudly around their necks, love the blood on them, hell, the guilt, the doubts, the fear, the suffering! It is evil influence! Where is the resurrection?
I'm still trying to figure out how Spong can say things like "Jesus wants us to be inclusive yadayadayada" and he throws the Bible out the window simultaneously.
did this "Jesus" just appear to you one day in Newark?
Disgraceful man, disgraceful mischaracterization of the life of Jesus and an absolutely heretical view of morality in the light of ALL Jesus taught. Not just one verse. Of course, if you can throw the virgin birth and the resurrection right out of the Bible, the rest is easy.
It's easy to see why the Episcopal church is in it s final death throes. It's sad to watch.
@emoryjag Open up to apostasy? Not a chance. I don't really care what Spong thinks about Jesus because he doesn't know who Jesus is. He has reduced the gospel of Jesus Christ into a 'feel good' cult. I've seen the Episcopal church's statement of faith. Spong obviously doesn't believe most of it. You simply can't throw out the virgin birth and the resurrection without throwing the whole Bible into the trash. Spong will hear the seven most dreaded words "Depart from me, I never knew you".
@SkiesVibrant you know you are doing Gods will when people hate you, mock you, despise you, because you speak the truth. When will you learn the unconditional love of God?
@henryforshaw Do you have a point? The Great Commission given by Jesus is clear. He is the good news. My job is to protect the clarily of the life of Jesus.
A person simply cannot claim to be Christian if they deny the virgin birth and the resurrection. Spong believes that neither of these Biblical principles as it applies to our faith. No resurrecton, no heaven or hell. I don't know what Bible he uses. It doesn't really matter. He still denies the foundations of Christian Faith.
@abominableangel Yep, it's okay to judge and the scripture tells us that anyone who teaches another gospel should be ACCURSED. Paul even tells us not to eat with these people unless they repent.
Don't even bother with Mattew 7. Anyone who has read the entire chapter knows what the entirety says. Oh yes, I remember now. It says don't throw your pearls before swine.
@smellincoffee Problem is Spong doesn't even know who Jesus is. To hear him tell it, he was just another good man. Sad really and pathetic. If you do some checking, Jesus didn't eat with people who told another gospel, but he did eat with sinners. There is a huge difference, and Spong doesn't have a clue what the difference is.
@SkiesVibrant I don't think Spong thinks Jesus is just another man: I've watched several of his lectures and there and Spong shows a great reverence for him. He may not embrace who your Jesus is -- Paul's jesus, the sacrificed lamb -- but I think Paul's time defining Christianity is over.
@smellincoffee There is only one Jesus who transformed the destiny of man. Spong does not believe in the Christian God, so he is not a Christian. He is a member of a fan club. If he is happy with that, then that is his willing choice. I will pray for him. Actually if Spong is really listening to Jesus, then perhaps he should heed the words of Jesus. " I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to Father except by me" & "I & the Father are One". Paul didn't say that Jesus did.
@SkiesVibrant You don't even quote your supposed master correctly, in fact John has Jesus say "I am the way the turth and the *life*" not "light" as you incorrectly stated. If you are going to use Scripture as a weapon, at least get it right.
By the way, if Jesus really said that and all the other fantastic things John quotes him saying, then why do you think John is the only one to mention it? Wouldn't sayings like "I and the father are one" be certainly included by every gospel writer?
Jesus said what He said. It's not for me, or you and anyone else to decide what the gospel writers should have said. God did that and I'm not so arrogant as to determine what the diciples and apostles said and recorded. According to Spong, it apparently doesn't matter. How many times has Spong said homosexuality isn't a sin? Scripture records it as sin throughout the Old and New Testaments. BTW Paul didn't write any of the synoptic gospels.
@SkiesVibrant God is not a Christian, so believing in the Christian God is not really the point. Jesus never told anybody to join a religion, your ideas about God are the products of human beings not divine revelation. And that includes all the Protestant beliefs that you think are suppossedly "what the Bible says". When dealing with religious differences the only wise response is humility.
@Magnulus76 I can agree that Jesus Christ took on 'religious' leaders who were more interested in their own piety than pleasing God. It seems that Spong fits the 'religious' perfectly. Too bad he isn't convinced of the deity of Christ. As I said earlier, Spong belongs to a fan club instead of Jesus.
You are entitled to your opinion. You know the truth, God wrote it on your heart. Perhaps you should attend to it. Spong needs a Damascus moment before it is too late. I pray for him.
@smellincoffee Have you read his book "The Sins of Scripture"? He addresses the "I am" statements from the Gospel of St. John. I'd go to Barnes & Noble, find a copy, and read that chapter at least. You are taking it way out of context.
@smellincoffee Have you read his book "The Sins of Scripture"? He addresses the "I am" statements from the Gospel of St. John. I'd go to Barnes & Noble, find a copy, and read that chapter at least. You are taking it way out of context.
I disagree with his teachings about Jesus' resurrection (or lack of one, in his case), but he's right in this video. When the world looks as us disciples, they're not looking for our theology... they're looking for our love.
Thank you John Shelby for having the courage to grow up spritually and speak the truth. We have been brainwashed and control by religious dogma for too long.
Thank you spong for blowing the hateful god of the bible out of the water. jesus wouldn't give a shit if your gay, he would probably marry two gay men himself.
@leptismagna10 are you serious.... being gay is like any other sin.... jesus rebukes jesus exposes sin....do you think that jesus would simply allow sin to go unpunished.... if you do you need to get real with Gods WORD....
First, i don't believe in any gods. And there is nothing sinful about homosexuality, there is no reason to consider it wrong in any way. "the bible/quran says its wrong" is pretty weak.
yes, the "rotten" teachings of love, acceptance and humanism have NOTHING to do with traditional christianity.
Other than the fact that he is going against traditional christianity, what is inherently evil about what he is preaching?
@Ruffdogg21 why is it a sin? did god make it a sin? if so then why? or was it a sin before your god was dreamed up by men.
your concept of "sin" is artificial, dogmatic and has absolutely no reasoning whatsoever. Anything you don't like or understand, you see is corrupt and sinful, and find some way to interpret religion to agree with you.
And the biblical character Jesus is only a character based on a person who probably never existed.
@leptismagna10 What don't I understand about gays? I have no problem with gays. I don't agree with their lifestyle choice. Obviously, you are gay and you are trying to justify your lifestyle choice. Notice, I said choice. Being gay is a sin because it is an abomination and not natural. It is perverse. Furthermore, look at the little bit of money you have in your pocket...what does it say. Yep, thats right-- IN GOD WE TRUST. If you don't believe in God, thats fine. I hope you fine truth...one day
@Ruffdogg21 It means you're acting like an idiot on purpose but trying to get people to respond to you seriously. If you really are as stupid as you sound, though, I suggest you go look up when "in god we trust" was added to our money and when, then maybe you'll stop saying such idiotic, fucking non-sense.
@Ruffdogg21 I don't care if you respond to me. The real issue is about gays and Christianity. Everyone knows being gay is an abomination. Only the clueless seem to be confused about this. Why can't gays get married in all states? The answer because it is an abomination.
@leptismagna10 You are gay right? You don't like Christianity because it states that your lifestyle is wrong. You don't believe in God because you think..God should love you for who you are right.
@Ruffdogg21 wow, you are one stupid person. glad i dont live in your country. and no i'm not gay. i just believe in human rights, which religion has done little for. if your Mary were real, she deserves a punch in the ovaries.
@leptismagna10 Well sir, religion and human rights are two different things. I believe gays should have rights they shouldn't be discriminated against. But, I don't think they should have the right to marry.
@Ruffdogg21 thats because your medieval religion has taught you that they are less than you.
its only through modern humanism and enlightened secularism that softened up the church, putting an end to such practices as burning gays and heretics at the stake.
gays should and will have the right to marry, inherit and adopt children universally. And if you don't like it, don't marry a gay person of the same gender.
If this is what the bible taught, then I could agree with it. The bible teaches things like discrimination, bigotry, killing those with different beliefs (even the women and children), killing gays, etc.... Maybe this guy should rewrite the bible.
Wow, how nice to see that the Jesus story doesn't have to be about fear, control and subservience, I am a spiritualist and there is nothing that he said in this clip that I don't agree with. Thank you kind sir and I prey for more people like you and less like the Benny Hinn sort lol
@barmanjoe as a spiritualist - you are seperated from God, God is not apart of your life like a christian..people that arnt born of God are spiritually dead....
as a spiritualist you rely on the demonic - you rely on familular spirits.. no wonder you like spong he teaches a false christian message.. people who dabble in the ocult cant handle the truth of Gods word
@loudmouthspeaker Right so the fact that being a spiritualist means spiritual and therefore meaning of God makes no sense in your thick skull? You haven't even begun to understand the term God, to you he is a hypocritical man who puts the wealthy people who are giving money to the church, in heaven, and those who see that it's precisely people like you that have destroyed the earth with the message of fear and separation, in hell. You want people to accept you, you have to accept people!!!
@barmanjoe - useing the word spiritualist - describes the demonic... spiritualism is involved with new age practices... this is not the type of spiritual practices a christian gets involved with.... secondly the message of jesus is direct... You are either for God or the devil.. Gods hates luke warm christians... what type are you
@loudmouthspeaker It does describe the demonic that's right in christian belief, but what you don't seem able to grasp is that I'm not a christian and therefore I don't have christian beliefs. And that last comment is precisely why I am not, because first you claim to personally know what god wants and knows, and second that being a christian is all there is, "what type are you" etc, it is your message that has separated the masses and has created more hatred than anything else.
@leptismagna10 oh really... have you heard the rot that this guy preaches under the label of jesus's teachings.......where did he get his licence from i wonder? God is rightious and God is Holly... God has standards... spong teaches a wishy washy gospel..... Jesus allso confronts false teaching and evil.... get over it..
as an atheist, i can relate to this religious person. He comes across as honest. The basic message of Jesus was to love oneanother, irrespective of cultural differences.
I dont believe Jesus was the son of god, but see him more as a philosopher.
"Jesus calls you to be all you can be." And then the Army took Spong's words and made them their motto while excluding the religious jargon at the beginning. LOL
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. Matthew 7:15
This guy is off his rocker, He is a liar and false prophet (preacher). He is simply misleading people and leading them straight to Hell. He does not preach the word of God. He preach's his own doctrine and Theology. relativism is what's going to send many people to hell as well.
It's important 2 get the gospel right, everything else is ear candy. We're only saved by God's grace, not of good works otherwise Christ lived a perfect life and took our penalty 4 nothing. Only true affection 4 God comes from spiritually regenerated people. If you have been spiritually regenerated, good works will be a result of God's saving grace in your life. U cannot lie 2 God or yourself, U either have Christ in your heart or U don't.
@WileNot Matthew 25:31-46 contradicts what you said about good works. The "sheep" aren't inheriting the kingdom because they believed, they are getting it because they did good works. The gospels were not written by Jesus but by people who didn't even know Jesus ~80 AD, and Paul who wrote the epistles and put faith above works, didn't "meet" Jesus until after Jesus' death. You seem to put more stock in Paul than you do in Jesus whereas Bishop Spong seems to be trying to spread the love of Jesus.
at last a normal christian, well not normal he,s still deluded but, seems like a nice guy. pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less
"pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less"
We do not need your pity. What this man speaks of in this video is why Jesus tells us why only a few will enter the KINGDOM OF GOD. These are not teachings of Jesus i tell you the truth. This man will only speak to tickle your ear. Jesus taught people to repent and turn from their sins and yes...to love love love. But in loving, He also tells us the truth even if it hurts.
The devil can use people like this to spread lies. The bible says the native language for the devil are lies. Anyways most people don't believe in a literal devil. I, however, do believe there is a literal and physical devil named Lucifer. This clearly is not the teachings of Jesus period...Don't believe me just read one whole book from one of the four gospels...Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John or perhaps all of them. Christ clearly says to not only be like Christ but to follow Him.
@shakinbakeful I think that the only devil that exists in the one that some people create within themselves. I guess John Spong takes a lot of the magic out of Christianity and that is what a lot of people don't like. They like the idea of god given rules, divine reward and punishment. It takes away the responsibility we have to think for ourselves.
If you have seen what my brother and I have seen beyond the nature of this world and any scientific explanation then you will realize that it's not only a devil that exists in the people who create within themselves or their minds, but a physical one. I've seen the spirit world and you probably have not as why you say its only people who created it. I've heard your theory before plenty of times. It makes sense but it's not the truth. I respect your honest opinion but I simply don't agree.
First experience...I wash my hands, turn off the faucet, and dry my hands...all of a sudden the faucet turns on by itself...not gently but turns on full pressure. Second experience happen to my brother...he was talking on the phone late with his door locked and lights on and music on. All of sudden light switch turns off and music on computer clicked off...no electrical problem... 3rd time was when my brother and i witnessed a tall dark figure walking across our glass screen door and disappear.
@shakinbakeful Okay, well I could try and explain those things away, but I won't insult you like that and I'm sure you would have heard it all before anyway. But what would make you think this was the devil? Wouldn't these things be a bit 'small fry' for the devil?
I don't believe it was the devil but however, what me and my brother believe them to be was some form of demon spirits. The bible talks about how 1/3 of the angels from heaven decided to follow Lucifer,(What Christians call demons) I've read some post from different websites and many claim that some of the things they saw they perceive to be aliens. But what is an alien? Can we compare it to fictional alien or can I personally call them demons as explained in the bible...
I know you can try to explain those things and you're right many have tried. I've been speaking to my brother who lives 1600 miles from me and he himself have claimed he followed a spirit as well at his work and it looked at him, jumped up and disappeared. About 80% of people who worked at my brothers job have experienced some form of paranormal activity at the job site. Even having some share of my experiences I have hard time believing my brother ...So I don't blame you for doubting.
would all be happy and content. The true message of Jesus has been lost through the love of power. Spongs teaching are strange to many. His teaching are raw to the average Christian, too simple. But Jesus was human for a reason, so that we may relate to a human.
@goofy6622 I have been a scholar for 46 years, and I have never heard it put so simply and with such clarity in my life. What you have said is incredible, and I wish more people could see the Jesus you see, for the Jesus you see is the Jesus that was.
Spong speaks what many people in my and position just want to scream out. Church is so full of tradition it does restrict us.
Christianity covers all people. The word Catholic was used because it meant universal, meaning all people. Not just church goers or those who believed in God.
Jesus message was one of loving one another, protecting and providing for one another. It was not to argue or fight over whose doctrines or apologetics were right. If we lived in the world Jesus wanted, we...
@goofy6622 The word catholic does mean universal; however, it is defined to then mean those that proclaimed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus pointed out "doctrinal" issues between pharisees and saducees. Jesus was full of grace AND truth. The truth is what got Him crucified after several attempts at stoning. [That was God's plan all along but still...] If Jesus only said love He would never had been killed.
Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
Antiks72: I'd probably agree with your views but one shouldn't have to do away with people who you don't agree with to be right. It's been tried before and you'll only make them seem right.
Spong only articulates what I intuitively knew even as a child. Conventional christianity is drab, and funnily enough, so are the conventional christians I know.
Yes Jesus said false prophets would come. So why do all the "special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later? He said it to people that were living at the time. Otherwise, why can't Paul be looked at as such? He fits the criteria of what Jesus said is a false prophet perfectly.
"special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later
Have you seriously read any of Paul's letter?
He clearly says that for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Paul speaks the truth and was clearly a humble man that never glorified himself. He always gave Christ credit for all the good things he had no matter what even to prison and to death. He is by no means to be looked at or fit any criteria as a false prophet...This Spong priest clearly tells lies about what Jesus says.
No i think you have not read Pauls letters openly or honestly. You are one of many who just assume because its in the neatly produced book called the Bible that it must be true. To sum it up, Paul taught a selfish religion about faith will save. Very easy and appealing to the masses, especially too that Paul taught the Jewish Law was ended. Another appealing hook, everyone can benefit in the after life without following 613 Jewish Laws, all to easy. Who wouldn't want to join?
Jesus spoke more about the Kingdom of Heaven approaching and was far more concerned with peoples honesty and sincerity, and very important was our treatment of those in need. All of this was based on works, and by example would be an example of Godliness. When Jesus is asked how one enters life he says to keep the commandments, then went on to tell the story of the good samaritan, which was a compassion message.
Modern day Christian nuts follow Paul and all this "washed in his blood" nonsense.
Do you think, if Satan were to knock on your door today, that he would have a red robe on and scream at you and kill your little baby kitten? No. He would speak softly, kindly and try to pursuade you that the Bible is wrong ... and not the Word of God. Just as Spong is doing. By Biblical definition, Spong is an anti-Christ.
Your comment is the reason for Spong. Too much irrationality in Christianity. Most people stopped believing in the devil during the Enlightenment. Spong is trying to make religion compatible w/ 21st Century knowledge.
Yes! When you quote the Truth of the Word of God, detractors are plentiful. Jesus warned of them. In Scripture, Satan is described as an angel of light; beholden to look at. Friend - I only give you the Truth of the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Your free will, a gift from God, is to decide if it's for you - or not.
If such a thing were true then God would be a devil. Giving finite and mortal beings the ability to decide their eternal destinies is unfair. We can't possibly understand the full consequences of our actions.
What is the Bible a guide for? How to get to Heaven? That would mean life is a game where if you believe the correct things about God you 'win' and go to Heaven. But if you don't believe correctly you 'lose' and go Hell. The Christian god seems quite the sadist.
Look, you're not the first person I've chatted with concerning God's Word being the Truth. I didn't expect to change your mind; not my intention. Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord.
Bible prophecy fullfilled! Jesus said if you go around quoting me and The Word, you will be criticised. You are entrinched in your beliefs, as well as me ... so you do not pursuade - nor I. Doesn't matter. Truth does not change on your or my belief systems.
Why was Jesus killed? He said alot of unpopular Truth.
Really? What genius wrote that? Paul? Any idiot could have predicted that some new wacky religionists running around in the first century would be persecuted for their beliefs. That's hardly a prediction if you ask me. You have no concept of the truth. You just have dogma which claims itself as truth.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
WOLF!! Spong is a lying wolf. Jesus came to earth on a search and rescue mission.Yes He came to give us life more abundantly. But His express purpose was to save us from our sins and to destroy the works of the devil! The hireling's easy words and lying speech will cause many to error. He says Jesus didn't come to make us righteous? Well plz alert Heaven bcuz (2 Cor.5:21):"God made Christ Who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Disgusting.
The Bible was assembled by man who picked and chose the manuscripts they wanted, leaving anything that didn't fit the bill out. Furthermore, they destroyed gnostic manuscripts and drove out those teachings. They didn't like Arius either.
may the Lord protect people's minds from this serpent and his smooth words! Seriously, i think this guy's a great candidate for being the antichrist or something! i can tell his words could so easily twist the unguarded mind into acceptance of sin....
John Shelby Spong is absolutely right. May the day finally come when our spokespeople as believers are not loud, ignorant television preachers, but thoughtful, intellectual guides to the faith. Life is what this is about and we as a church should invite discourse and dialogue without being threatened. Bishop Spong is a hero of the faith.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
If you live in willful, constant, rebellious sin against God, you are not ALL YOU CAN BE, you are lost and going to Hell. Repent & live.
20 years ago I walked away from the Church. But now I want to return. I find it hard, though, because it still represents not freedom to me, but restriction and imprisonment and denial and "NO YOU CAN'T". How do I get past this?
"How do I get past this?"-Hi, my advice is, trying to look at things from a differnt perspective. Instead of "thou shalt not" as a negative commandment, maybe see it is a positive statement "you will not". Find someone you can talk to openly..and remember, Jesus brought "goodnews", that is a positive statement, not a negative pronouncement. Look for Christians whom you can talk to, share your feelings with, even express doubts with-this will be very hard unfortunatly, becareful whom you trust.
Do you want the sense of belonging? Maybe try organizing a group that is open to the public where you just discuss certain topics. The only thing that I can suggest is to make it safe and attractive for a variety of people. I'm sure that getting even a handful of people interested will be a lot of work. Then keeping them interested will be even more. The thing about continuing is that it doesn't have to. You will have met a few people who share in common with you something that you cherish.
I personally would look around all over the place for an honest church and do the organizing a group as a last resort. That's what I'd do if I felt strong about the idea. I left the church a few years ago and I guess I haven't reached that time of wanting to go back. I love not being in it.
Repent (change your opinion of Jesus and sin) and rely as best you can on the gospel that Christ died for your sins against God by dying in your place and then spend the rest of your life following him.
The only reason you won't go to church is because Jesus hates sin and the freedom you want is a church that says there is no such thing as sin. but what did Jesus say ? Even cut off your arm, for it is better for you to cut off one arm than for all of you to go into hell.
"But anyone who doesn't share that core belief of Christianity is going straight to hell when they die, according to what the majority of Christians believe"
Uhmmmm.
A majority of people once beleived the Earth to be flat. They were wrong. They once beleived that the female's part in the reproducction of the specie was basically to act as a vessel. They were wrong. They beleived bats were birds. They were wrong. Just because a lot of people beleive something, it does not make it true.
@seonf I know! I can actually listen to this guy and not want to kill him like I do when I hear Pat Robertson or Jack Van Impe. Those bastards are poster-boys for what a Christian should never become! I am not religious, but what this guy says is on point. If Christians would take the Christ metaphor for what it is: a metaphor and stop reading further into it and taking everything literally like Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, etc, then there wouldn't be a term like Jesus freak!
the Bible does speak of sexual sins (homo&hetro) but it never adresses "gayness" at all, being gay is a sexual orientation something the bible does not speak about.
please quote the verse that says "and jesus said unto his disciples "lol gayness is wrong"." it never says in the bible that being homosexual is wrong, the verse used to say homosexuality is wrong either a)could be just as easily translated as sex with anyone is wrong, or b) mean that only man on man sex is wrong but lesbians can go at it all day and be fine.
He never taught that at all.He taught that those of satan are to be avoided.Love thy neighbour and He stated who that was.It is not EVERYONE!
allthesealsareopen 1 day ago
John Shelby Spong is a child of Satan.
MaryWaterton 2 weeks ago
@MaryWaterton Um, yeah, talking about a call to life and love is sure some really evil stuff. Honestly, here do you get off saying something like that? What about "judge not" and well, if you listened to the Bishop, "love one another?"
robtul12 1 week ago
@Ruffdogg21 Yes, I don't think this guy is completly right. Because to be married as an homosexuel its not right. Why all the nature and the animals are not homosexuel. You know why BECAUSE ITS NOT NATURAL !!! This bishop have to heal them insteed of marry them. If the flowers are homosexuelle how is it possible for those guys to offers the flowers to their loved one. It's IMPOSSIBLE; The only thing we can do is to have compassion. Otherwise the life will be like "the children of men" movie
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
@MegaDudu999 all nature and animals are not homosexual? are you fucking stupid? of course it exists in nature. sorry to burst your little balloon there.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 No sorry you yourself are fucking stupid and you don't want to heal yourself. Witch is a probleme. I understand the homosexuality that for sure. But to marry someone like you it's fucking crazy as this world is. The nature is well done. When you have female plog with male plog you have light. When you have male plog with male plog you have no light. Your worild is full of darkness.
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
@MegaDudu999 I agree with you man. Gay is not natural and a sick abomination.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 Its not difficult if you are a woman to find a man who has a lot of female energy and for a man to find a woman who has a lot of male energy. Then everything can match. Because deeply inside it is what we search. Why do we have to be especially with someone who has the same sexe ? I don't understand.
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
@MegaDudu999 You are right. Hands down....I agree. I just don't understand and don't want anything to do with it. I don't hate them or nothing like that..they just disgust me unless they are hot women.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 Well, lets agree to disagree. You think gay is right and I think gay is wrong and maybe that will never change.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
Leviticus 11:10-12 says:
10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Check it out on godhatesshrimp dot kom.Praise Leviticus...NOT
InvisiblePinkSoylent 1 month ago
This man gives hope to religion.
feedthekoala 1 month ago
Your are a hypocrite and a fake
CHILDOFGOD478 1 month ago
@CHILDOFGOD478 why, coz you don't agree with him?
Its amazing how many religious people think their interpretation of what should be gods word is the only correct one. As if...gods word was their own....as if they were god themselves. The irony of it all...
leptismagna10 1 month ago
what a great man Bishop Spong is
DiscosMobileKent 1 month ago
You are the first speaker for Jesus that actually carries the true message of the Christed one to come along in who knows how long .... Bravo to you.
CroneMagick2010 1 month ago
ANY message of love and respect deserves my respect and love.
Doesn't matter which religion or non-religion.
mistresspav 4 months ago in playlist favorites 3 2
I'm not a christian and I love this man.
So f* up that the message is so lost and highly misused for opposite goals.
mistresspav 4 months ago 2
@mistresspav me too.
bronx2245 3 months ago
The Bible was really written by a man under a tree. He was bored one day and decided to impose his ideas on everyone else. Then he had a jew promote it.
MyOwnWorld1966 4 months ago
Janet Reno's dance party
MandolinforJesus 6 months ago
A VERY intelligent Christian; probably the most intelligent Christian on planet earth.
Science1981 7 months ago in playlist Emerging Religion
Such an awesome video!
LoveJesusNotReligion 7 months ago
he ain't wrong in this one, though i did zone out somewhere near the middle...
kogcc 8 months ago
my goodness I am crying! this is beauuuutiiiiiful!
TheGuilanvi 8 months ago 4
Now this is just awesome! That's the Jesus I teach... but religion has blinded the masses... God help us all to see the true Jesus, that is hidden by religion!
LoveJesusNotReligion 8 months ago
Anyone know where I can find the passage in John he references ?
swarthylatincharm 9 months ago
the usual "Christendom" balderdash of applying Scripture to everybody. Christianity was founded by Christ not so Christians can turn this world into a better one but so the true God may be worshipped and glorified among His own people and so His people, not the entire world, may live according to His precepts handed down to His apostles using the Scriptures as their guide which means the Scriptures were written only for His people. Check out Romans 15, 1 Cor 10, you humanists.
timboktso 10 months ago
@timboktso Christianity was not founded by "Christ". Its a second century gentile invention.
thelazarusdimension 9 months ago
I have been an atheist ever since my mid teen years, and the talks Bishop Spong truly make rational sense to me. I really do admire the way he preaches.
ArniParia 10 months ago
@ArniParia yet strangely enough "real" christians try to beat him down. sad really
Grandecasla 10 months ago
@Grandecasla
Yea, interesting how they beat him down. But like you said. Its because they're "real" Christians, right? :-/
John 1:29
Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of THE WORLD. (Was John the baptist lying?)
John 12:47
As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge THE WORLD, but to SAVE IT. (Did Jesus screw up and not do it?)
davidbrucemusicvideo 10 months ago
He is indeed a very courageous man. He's taken a lot of crap and he doesn't back down.
tangotangoromeo 10 months ago
Jesus never existed-so he can't really call, can he?
NixonisLord 11 months ago
The love? The mercy? The life? The acceptance? The forgiveness? The light? No wonder the evil influence is bigger than ever in the church. Break down the faith and start over new with the trueness of the Word and Jesus originally found Church! God is love and nothing else that is all you need to know. Do not follow man follow God only.
royalsteven 1 year ago
True this man is a breathe of fresh air between all the brainwashed and twisted preachers. Too many have twisted the Word too long. Crucifixtion, women's rights, condeming God all catholic's fear tactics invented by catholics. Christians worship the cross a torture deveice, proudly around their necks, love the blood on them, hell, the guilt, the doubts, the fear, the suffering! It is evil influence! Where is the resurrection?
royalsteven 1 year ago
I'm still trying to figure out how Spong can say things like "Jesus wants us to be inclusive yadayadayada" and he throws the Bible out the window simultaneously.
did this "Jesus" just appear to you one day in Newark?
hack theologian.
EastofForever 1 year ago
@EastofForever relax
henryforshaw 11 months ago
Disgraceful man, disgraceful mischaracterization of the life of Jesus and an absolutely heretical view of morality in the light of ALL Jesus taught. Not just one verse. Of course, if you can throw the virgin birth and the resurrection right out of the Bible, the rest is easy.
It's easy to see why the Episcopal church is in it s final death throes. It's sad to watch.
SkiesVibrant 1 year ago
Comment removed
emoryjag 1 year ago
@emoryjag Open up to apostasy? Not a chance. I don't really care what Spong thinks about Jesus because he doesn't know who Jesus is. He has reduced the gospel of Jesus Christ into a 'feel good' cult. I've seen the Episcopal church's statement of faith. Spong obviously doesn't believe most of it. You simply can't throw out the virgin birth and the resurrection without throwing the whole Bible into the trash. Spong will hear the seven most dreaded words "Depart from me, I never knew you".
SkiesVibrant 1 year ago
@SkiesVibrant you know you are doing Gods will when people hate you, mock you, despise you, because you speak the truth. When will you learn the unconditional love of God?
henryforshaw 11 months ago
@henryforshaw Do you have a point? The Great Commission given by Jesus is clear. He is the good news. My job is to protect the clarily of the life of Jesus.
A person simply cannot claim to be Christian if they deny the virgin birth and the resurrection. Spong believes that neither of these Biblical principles as it applies to our faith. No resurrecton, no heaven or hell. I don't know what Bible he uses. It doesn't really matter. He still denies the foundations of Christian Faith.
SkiesVibrant 11 months ago
@SkiesVibrant A Christian is a follower of Christ. Since when did he say that Jesus did not rise from the dead?
The foundation of Christian faith is the experience of God through the holy spirit and the life of Jesus depicted by the gospels.
Do you have a point?
henryforshaw 11 months ago
@henryforshaw I sent you a pm with sources that you can read for yourself. Spong wrote the books. I didn't.
God Bless
SkiesVibrant 11 months ago
@SkiesVibrant but its cool for you to judge yeah... i sooo remember Jesus giving you the ok for that not!
abominableangel 7 months ago
@abominableangel Yep, it's okay to judge and the scripture tells us that anyone who teaches another gospel should be ACCURSED. Paul even tells us not to eat with these people unless they repent.
Don't even bother with Mattew 7. Anyone who has read the entire chapter knows what the entirety says. Oh yes, I remember now. It says don't throw your pearls before swine.
SkiesVibrant 7 months ago
@SkiesVibrant Jesus ate with sinners, and Paul spurned them. I like Jesus' and Spong's message better.
smellincoffee 6 months ago 8
@smellincoffee Problem is Spong doesn't even know who Jesus is. To hear him tell it, he was just another good man. Sad really and pathetic. If you do some checking, Jesus didn't eat with people who told another gospel, but he did eat with sinners. There is a huge difference, and Spong doesn't have a clue what the difference is.
SkiesVibrant 6 months ago
@SkiesVibrant I don't think Spong thinks Jesus is just another man: I've watched several of his lectures and there and Spong shows a great reverence for him. He may not embrace who your Jesus is -- Paul's jesus, the sacrificed lamb -- but I think Paul's time defining Christianity is over.
smellincoffee 6 months ago
@smellincoffee There is only one Jesus who transformed the destiny of man. Spong does not believe in the Christian God, so he is not a Christian. He is a member of a fan club. If he is happy with that, then that is his willing choice. I will pray for him. Actually if Spong is really listening to Jesus, then perhaps he should heed the words of Jesus. " I am the way, the truth, and the light, no man comes to Father except by me" & "I & the Father are One". Paul didn't say that Jesus did.
SkiesVibrant 6 months ago
@SkiesVibrant You don't even quote your supposed master correctly, in fact John has Jesus say "I am the way the turth and the *life*" not "light" as you incorrectly stated. If you are going to use Scripture as a weapon, at least get it right.
By the way, if Jesus really said that and all the other fantastic things John quotes him saying, then why do you think John is the only one to mention it? Wouldn't sayings like "I and the father are one" be certainly included by every gospel writer?
illegalbrain 4 months ago
@illegalbrain What a terrible sin, typos.....
Jesus said what He said. It's not for me, or you and anyone else to decide what the gospel writers should have said. God did that and I'm not so arrogant as to determine what the diciples and apostles said and recorded. According to Spong, it apparently doesn't matter. How many times has Spong said homosexuality isn't a sin? Scripture records it as sin throughout the Old and New Testaments. BTW Paul didn't write any of the synoptic gospels.
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@SkiesVibrant Paul didn't write ANY of the four gospels
ladylejean215 2 months ago in playlist More videos from livingthequestions
@SkiesVibrant God is not a Christian, so believing in the Christian God is not really the point. Jesus never told anybody to join a religion, your ideas about God are the products of human beings not divine revelation. And that includes all the Protestant beliefs that you think are suppossedly "what the Bible says". When dealing with religious differences the only wise response is humility.
Magnulus76 4 months ago
@Magnulus76 I can agree that Jesus Christ took on 'religious' leaders who were more interested in their own piety than pleasing God. It seems that Spong fits the 'religious' perfectly. Too bad he isn't convinced of the deity of Christ. As I said earlier, Spong belongs to a fan club instead of Jesus.
You are entitled to your opinion. You know the truth, God wrote it on your heart. Perhaps you should attend to it. Spong needs a Damascus moment before it is too late. I pray for him.
SkiesVibrant 4 months ago
@smellincoffee Have you read his book "The Sins of Scripture"? He addresses the "I am" statements from the Gospel of St. John. I'd go to Barnes & Noble, find a copy, and read that chapter at least. You are taking it way out of context.
ladylejean215 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@smellincoffee Have you read his book "The Sins of Scripture"? He addresses the "I am" statements from the Gospel of St. John. I'd go to Barnes & Noble, find a copy, and read that chapter at least. You are taking it way out of context.
ladylejean215 4 months ago
i like to share a word with you poeple
youtube.com/watch?v=mrZcztxRquo&feature=related
marvelstryfe 1 year ago
I disagree with his teachings about Jesus' resurrection (or lack of one, in his case), but he's right in this video. When the world looks as us disciples, they're not looking for our theology... they're looking for our love.
tmamone83 1 year ago
Thank you John Shelby for having the courage to grow up spritually and speak the truth. We have been brainwashed and control by religious dogma for too long.
bdyan53 1 year ago 2
Thank you spong for blowing the hateful god of the bible out of the water. jesus wouldn't give a shit if your gay, he would probably marry two gay men himself.
leptismagna10 1 year ago 5
@leptismagna10 are you serious.... being gay is like any other sin.... jesus rebukes jesus exposes sin....do you think that jesus would simply allow sin to go unpunished.... if you do you need to get real with Gods WORD....
spong would of made a good hippy..
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
@loudmouthspeaker
First, i don't believe in any gods. And there is nothing sinful about homosexuality, there is no reason to consider it wrong in any way. "the bible/quran says its wrong" is pretty weak.
yes, the "rotten" teachings of love, acceptance and humanism have NOTHING to do with traditional christianity.
Other than the fact that he is going against traditional christianity, what is inherently evil about what he is preaching?
And Jesus was the original hippy, if he existed.
leptismagna10 1 year ago 3
@leptismagna10 wow you really don't understand jesus. jesus ate with sinners, whores but still hated sin. being gay is a sin
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 why is it a sin? did god make it a sin? if so then why? or was it a sin before your god was dreamed up by men.
your concept of "sin" is artificial, dogmatic and has absolutely no reasoning whatsoever. Anything you don't like or understand, you see is corrupt and sinful, and find some way to interpret religion to agree with you.
And the biblical character Jesus is only a character based on a person who probably never existed.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 What don't I understand about gays? I have no problem with gays. I don't agree with their lifestyle choice. Obviously, you are gay and you are trying to justify your lifestyle choice. Notice, I said choice. Being gay is a sin because it is an abomination and not natural. It is perverse. Furthermore, look at the little bit of money you have in your pocket...what does it say. Yep, thats right-- IN GOD WE TRUST. If you don't believe in God, thats fine. I hope you fine truth...one day
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 Trolling.
gatorhighlights4 1 month ago
@gatorhighlights4 what does Trolling mean?
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 It means you're acting like an idiot on purpose but trying to get people to respond to you seriously. If you really are as stupid as you sound, though, I suggest you go look up when "in god we trust" was added to our money and when, then maybe you'll stop saying such idiotic, fucking non-sense.
gatorhighlights4 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 I don't care if you respond to me. The real issue is about gays and Christianity. Everyone knows being gay is an abomination. Only the clueless seem to be confused about this. Why can't gays get married in all states? The answer because it is an abomination.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 god is an abomination.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 sorry, i realize that what i said may be too complicated for you. Let me put this way:
Homosexuality might be a "sin" in the fictional universe of Christianity but its not "wrong" in any sense of the word in what we call Real Life.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 You are gay right? You don't like Christianity because it states that your lifestyle is wrong. You don't believe in God because you think..God should love you for who you are right.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 wow, you are one stupid person. glad i dont live in your country. and no i'm not gay. i just believe in human rights, which religion has done little for. if your Mary were real, she deserves a punch in the ovaries.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 Well sir, religion and human rights are two different things. I believe gays should have rights they shouldn't be discriminated against. But, I don't think they should have the right to marry.
Ruffdogg21 1 month ago
@Ruffdogg21 thats because your medieval religion has taught you that they are less than you.
its only through modern humanism and enlightened secularism that softened up the church, putting an end to such practices as burning gays and heretics at the stake.
gays should and will have the right to marry, inherit and adopt children universally. And if you don't like it, don't marry a gay person of the same gender.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
Thank Gd for Spong!!
pietrrocks 1 year ago 2
If this is what the bible taught, then I could agree with it. The bible teaches things like discrimination, bigotry, killing those with different beliefs (even the women and children), killing gays, etc.... Maybe this guy should rewrite the bible.
vottoduder 1 year ago
Wow, how nice to see that the Jesus story doesn't have to be about fear, control and subservience, I am a spiritualist and there is nothing that he said in this clip that I don't agree with. Thank you kind sir and I prey for more people like you and less like the Benny Hinn sort lol
barmanjoe 1 year ago
@barmanjoe as a spiritualist - you are seperated from God, God is not apart of your life like a christian..people that arnt born of God are spiritually dead....
as a spiritualist you rely on the demonic - you rely on familular spirits.. no wonder you like spong he teaches a false christian message.. people who dabble in the ocult cant handle the truth of Gods word
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
@loudmouthspeaker Right so the fact that being a spiritualist means spiritual and therefore meaning of God makes no sense in your thick skull? You haven't even begun to understand the term God, to you he is a hypocritical man who puts the wealthy people who are giving money to the church, in heaven, and those who see that it's precisely people like you that have destroyed the earth with the message of fear and separation, in hell. You want people to accept you, you have to accept people!!!
barmanjoe 1 year ago
@barmanjoe - useing the word spiritualist - describes the demonic... spiritualism is involved with new age practices... this is not the type of spiritual practices a christian gets involved with.... secondly the message of jesus is direct... You are either for God or the devil.. Gods hates luke warm christians... what type are you
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
@loudmouthspeaker It does describe the demonic that's right in christian belief, but what you don't seem able to grasp is that I'm not a christian and therefore I don't have christian beliefs. And that last comment is precisely why I am not, because first you claim to personally know what god wants and knows, and second that being a christian is all there is, "what type are you" etc, it is your message that has separated the masses and has created more hatred than anything else.
barmanjoe 1 year ago
@loudmouthspeaker
you're "faith" is an embarrassment to the human species.
leptismagna10 1 year ago 2
@leptismagna10 oh really... have you heard the rot that this guy preaches under the label of jesus's teachings.......where did he get his licence from i wonder? God is rightious and God is Holly... God has standards... spong teaches a wishy washy gospel..... Jesus allso confronts false teaching and evil.... get over it..
loudmouthspeaker 1 year ago
@loudmouthspeaker God is Holly? Since when was God a tree?
tangotangoromeo 10 months ago
as an atheist, i can relate to this religious person. He comes across as honest. The basic message of Jesus was to love oneanother, irrespective of cultural differences.
I dont believe Jesus was the son of god, but see him more as a philosopher.
bonnie43uk 1 year ago
"Jesus calls you to be all you can be." And then the Army took Spong's words and made them their motto while excluding the religious jargon at the beginning. LOL
Alturasyouthgroup 1 year ago
Now the message of Christ is coming through loud and clear! We need more voices like Spong's. Throw off the yoke of the church's doctrine.
odyssea51 1 year ago
This guys is my favorite Pastor, he really knows what Gos is requesting from us....
kabanra 1 year ago
great real stuff (love)
tonytonytonyargh 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. Matthew 7:15
This guy is off his rocker, He is a liar and false prophet (preacher). He is simply misleading people and leading them straight to Hell. He does not preach the word of God. He preach's his own doctrine and Theology. relativism is what's going to send many people to hell as well.
Jiballin 1 year ago
@Jiballin And yet he speaks with the loving voice of Jesus, while you sound like a chest-thumping Pharisee.
smellincoffee 1 year ago 2
@Jiballin God will forgive you for your judgementalism.
MassLiberal1 1 year ago
@Jiballin
Did you not listen to him?
Imagine if everyone on planet Earth decided to be loving - regardless of faith (or lack of in my case).
What harm could possibly come from that?
What evil could possibly infect a world where everyone is nice to each other?
It's your fundamentalist brand of Christianity that isn't helping. I'm not sure Jesus wanted that at all.
jazzx251 1 year ago
amazing
pouriapoi 1 year ago
If it is not 100% true then all it has 2 B is 99.9% true for it 2 B a lie.
WileNot 1 year ago
It's important 2 get the gospel right, everything else is ear candy. We're only saved by God's grace, not of good works otherwise Christ lived a perfect life and took our penalty 4 nothing. Only true affection 4 God comes from spiritually regenerated people. If you have been spiritually regenerated, good works will be a result of God's saving grace in your life. U cannot lie 2 God or yourself, U either have Christ in your heart or U don't.
WileNot 1 year ago
@WileNot Matthew 25:31-46 contradicts what you said about good works. The "sheep" aren't inheriting the kingdom because they believed, they are getting it because they did good works. The gospels were not written by Jesus but by people who didn't even know Jesus ~80 AD, and Paul who wrote the epistles and put faith above works, didn't "meet" Jesus until after Jesus' death. You seem to put more stock in Paul than you do in Jesus whereas Bishop Spong seems to be trying to spread the love of Jesus.
sinbien336 1 year ago
@sinbien336 you are so correct, there are many Paulians and Johnians masquerading as Christians
kixmet 1 year ago
at last a normal christian, well not normal he,s still deluded but, seems like a nice guy. pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less
userwl2850 2 years ago
"pity all christians aren,t like him they,d get a little more respect. god-b-less"
We do not need your pity. What this man speaks of in this video is why Jesus tells us why only a few will enter the KINGDOM OF GOD. These are not teachings of Jesus i tell you the truth. This man will only speak to tickle your ear. Jesus taught people to repent and turn from their sins and yes...to love love love. But in loving, He also tells us the truth even if it hurts.
The devil is very crafty.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
@shakinbakeful "The devil is very crafty". Are you saying John spong is spreading the devils word?
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
The devil can use people like this to spread lies. The bible says the native language for the devil are lies. Anyways most people don't believe in a literal devil. I, however, do believe there is a literal and physical devil named Lucifer. This clearly is not the teachings of Jesus period...Don't believe me just read one whole book from one of the four gospels...Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John or perhaps all of them. Christ clearly says to not only be like Christ but to follow Him.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
@shakinbakeful I think that the only devil that exists in the one that some people create within themselves. I guess John Spong takes a lot of the magic out of Christianity and that is what a lot of people don't like. They like the idea of god given rules, divine reward and punishment. It takes away the responsibility we have to think for ourselves.
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
If you have seen what my brother and I have seen beyond the nature of this world and any scientific explanation then you will realize that it's not only a devil that exists in the people who create within themselves or their minds, but a physical one. I've seen the spirit world and you probably have not as why you say its only people who created it. I've heard your theory before plenty of times. It makes sense but it's not the truth. I respect your honest opinion but I simply don't agree.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
@shakinbakeful Can you explain what you have seen/experienced that makes you convinced that the devil exits as a physical entity?
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
First experience...I wash my hands, turn off the faucet, and dry my hands...all of a sudden the faucet turns on by itself...not gently but turns on full pressure. Second experience happen to my brother...he was talking on the phone late with his door locked and lights on and music on. All of sudden light switch turns off and music on computer clicked off...no electrical problem... 3rd time was when my brother and i witnessed a tall dark figure walking across our glass screen door and disappear.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
@shakinbakeful Okay, well I could try and explain those things away, but I won't insult you like that and I'm sure you would have heard it all before anyway. But what would make you think this was the devil? Wouldn't these things be a bit 'small fry' for the devil?
MrIcarusflysagain 1 year ago
I don't believe it was the devil but however, what me and my brother believe them to be was some form of demon spirits. The bible talks about how 1/3 of the angels from heaven decided to follow Lucifer,(What Christians call demons) I've read some post from different websites and many claim that some of the things they saw they perceive to be aliens. But what is an alien? Can we compare it to fictional alien or can I personally call them demons as explained in the bible...
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
I know you can try to explain those things and you're right many have tried. I've been speaking to my brother who lives 1600 miles from me and he himself have claimed he followed a spirit as well at his work and it looked at him, jumped up and disappeared. About 80% of people who worked at my brothers job have experienced some form of paranormal activity at the job site. Even having some share of my experiences I have hard time believing my brother ...So I don't blame you for doubting.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
would all be happy and content. The true message of Jesus has been lost through the love of power. Spongs teaching are strange to many. His teaching are raw to the average Christian, too simple. But Jesus was human for a reason, so that we may relate to a human.
goofy6622 2 years ago 22
@goofy6622 I have been a scholar for 46 years, and I have never heard it put so simply and with such clarity in my life. What you have said is incredible, and I wish more people could see the Jesus you see, for the Jesus you see is the Jesus that was.
MrBiblicalscholar 8 months ago 3
Spong speaks what many people in my and position just want to scream out. Church is so full of tradition it does restrict us.
Christianity covers all people. The word Catholic was used because it meant universal, meaning all people. Not just church goers or those who believed in God.
Jesus message was one of loving one another, protecting and providing for one another. It was not to argue or fight over whose doctrines or apologetics were right. If we lived in the world Jesus wanted, we...
goofy6622 2 years ago 25
@goofy6622 The word catholic does mean universal; however, it is defined to then mean those that proclaimed that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus pointed out "doctrinal" issues between pharisees and saducees. Jesus was full of grace AND truth. The truth is what got Him crucified after several attempts at stoning. [That was God's plan all along but still...] If Jesus only said love He would never had been killed.
masterkeep 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
shieldsff 4 months ago
Antiks72: I'd probably agree with your views but one shouldn't have to do away with people who you don't agree with to be right. It's been tried before and you'll only make them seem right.
ronpaulthegrey 2 years ago
Spong only articulates what I intuitively knew even as a child. Conventional christianity is drab, and funnily enough, so are the conventional christians I know.
cwegers1 2 years ago 2
Yes Jesus said false prophets would come. So why do all the "special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later? He said it to people that were living at the time. Otherwise, why can't Paul be looked at as such? He fits the criteria of what Jesus said is a false prophet perfectly.
Seektruth1st 2 years ago 2
"special people" think he was referring to 2000yrs later
Have you seriously read any of Paul's letter?
He clearly says that for me to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Paul speaks the truth and was clearly a humble man that never glorified himself. He always gave Christ credit for all the good things he had no matter what even to prison and to death. He is by no means to be looked at or fit any criteria as a false prophet...This Spong priest clearly tells lies about what Jesus says.
shakinbakeful 1 year ago
No i think you have not read Pauls letters openly or honestly. You are one of many who just assume because its in the neatly produced book called the Bible that it must be true. To sum it up, Paul taught a selfish religion about faith will save. Very easy and appealing to the masses, especially too that Paul taught the Jewish Law was ended. Another appealing hook, everyone can benefit in the after life without following 613 Jewish Laws, all to easy. Who wouldn't want to join?
Seektruth1st 1 year ago
Jesus spoke more about the Kingdom of Heaven approaching and was far more concerned with peoples honesty and sincerity, and very important was our treatment of those in need. All of this was based on works, and by example would be an example of Godliness. When Jesus is asked how one enters life he says to keep the commandments, then went on to tell the story of the good samaritan, which was a compassion message.
Modern day Christian nuts follow Paul and all this "washed in his blood" nonsense.
Seektruth1st 1 year ago
Do you think, if Satan were to knock on your door today, that he would have a red robe on and scream at you and kill your little baby kitten? No. He would speak softly, kindly and try to pursuade you that the Bible is wrong ... and not the Word of God. Just as Spong is doing. By Biblical definition, Spong is an anti-Christ.
dave0mary 2 years ago
Your comment is the reason for Spong. Too much irrationality in Christianity. Most people stopped believing in the devil during the Enlightenment. Spong is trying to make religion compatible w/ 21st Century knowledge.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago 2
Yes! When you quote the Truth of the Word of God, detractors are plentiful. Jesus warned of them. In Scripture, Satan is described as an angel of light; beholden to look at. Friend - I only give you the Truth of the Word of God, the Holy Bible. Your free will, a gift from God, is to decide if it's for you - or not.
dave0mary 2 years ago
If such a thing were true then God would be a devil. Giving finite and mortal beings the ability to decide their eternal destinies is unfair. We can't possibly understand the full consequences of our actions.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
It would be unfair if He didn't breath words for men to write. That gives us our guide.
We can understand the consequences of our choices for Him.
dave0mary 2 years ago
What is the Bible a guide for? How to get to Heaven? That would mean life is a game where if you believe the correct things about God you 'win' and go to Heaven. But if you don't believe correctly you 'lose' and go Hell. The Christian god seems quite the sadist.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
Yes - how to inherit eternal life ... and a guide for living this life. It contains rules to keep us from destroying ourselves; among other things.
dave0mary 2 years ago
Well then I'm not interested in your version of Christianity. One world at a time for me, thank you.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
Look, you're not the first person I've chatted with concerning God's Word being the Truth. I didn't expect to change your mind; not my intention. Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord.
dave0mary 2 years ago
"Merely to go before the Throne oneday and say I proclaimed your Word dear Lord"
And the Lord will ask you 'why did you call a fellow Chrisitan, Spong, an anti-christ?'
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
By my definition, you are an idiot.
Antiks72 2 years ago
Seriously, the day we can expunge Biblical literalists/fundamentalists like you off the earth, we'll be better.
Antiks72 2 years ago
Bible prophecy fullfilled! Jesus said if you go around quoting me and The Word, you will be criticised. You are entrinched in your beliefs, as well as me ... so you do not pursuade - nor I. Doesn't matter. Truth does not change on your or my belief systems.
Why was Jesus killed? He said alot of unpopular Truth.
dave0mary 2 years ago
Really? What genius wrote that? Paul? Any idiot could have predicted that some new wacky religionists running around in the first century would be persecuted for their beliefs. That's hardly a prediction if you ask me. You have no concept of the truth. You just have dogma which claims itself as truth.
Antiks72 2 years ago
That makes THREE replys from you. I'm sorry I got under your skin so deeply.
dave0mary 2 years ago
Right. Nothing substantive to say in reply. Nice going and DO continue denying reality.
Antiks72 2 years ago
That would be 4 now. I'm like a magnet to you. Feels good.
dave0mary 2 years ago
And here's five. I'm wearing women's underwear! Weeee!
Antiks72 2 years ago
I love this man's voice.
smellincoffee 2 years ago
I'm an atheist, but have read this guys books and would happily go listen to him every sunday. I love the guy.
segdirb7 2 years ago 2
What an amazing man!
vipasyana 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
WOLF!! Spong is a lying wolf. Jesus came to earth on a search and rescue mission.Yes He came to give us life more abundantly. But His express purpose was to save us from our sins and to destroy the works of the devil! The hireling's easy words and lying speech will cause many to error. He says Jesus didn't come to make us righteous? Well plz alert Heaven bcuz (2 Cor.5:21):"God made Christ Who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Disgusting.
bella50008 2 years ago
The Bible was assembled by man who picked and chose the manuscripts they wanted, leaving anything that didn't fit the bill out. Furthermore, they destroyed gnostic manuscripts and drove out those teachings. They didn't like Arius either.
Antiks72 2 years ago 2
I think that Bishop Spong is a Unitarian at heart! :)
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago
What a Beautiful message Bishop Spong!!
Amadeus1066 2 years ago
i pray that he one day sees the error in his teachings....
georgefrankleroy 2 years ago
georgefrankleroy - And what would be this error you speak of?
Ralph1Waldo 2 years ago
may the Lord protect people's minds from this serpent and his smooth words! Seriously, i think this guy's a great candidate for being the antichrist or something! i can tell his words could so easily twist the unguarded mind into acceptance of sin....
georgefrankleroy 2 years ago
John Shelby Spong is absolutely right. May the day finally come when our spokespeople as believers are not loud, ignorant television preachers, but thoughtful, intellectual guides to the faith. Life is what this is about and we as a church should invite discourse and dialogue without being threatened. Bishop Spong is a hero of the faith.
phoenixtimes2 2 years ago
Jesus doesn't want us to be moral and righteous? LOL!! That's not what the Bible says, which makes JSS a false teacher.
BillTheCat7 2 years ago 2
Man this guy has a lot of things figured out.
greenblueprints 2 years ago
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
If you live in willful, constant, rebellious sin against God, you are not ALL YOU CAN BE, you are lost and going to Hell. Repent & live.
bereansearch 2 years ago
The Bible doesn't even speak of a hell.
Anarkiados 2 years ago
20 years ago I walked away from the Church. But now I want to return. I find it hard, though, because it still represents not freedom to me, but restriction and imprisonment and denial and "NO YOU CAN'T". How do I get past this?
tlh215 2 years ago
"How do I get past this?"-Hi, my advice is, trying to look at things from a differnt perspective. Instead of "thou shalt not" as a negative commandment, maybe see it is a positive statement "you will not". Find someone you can talk to openly..and remember, Jesus brought "goodnews", that is a positive statement, not a negative pronouncement. Look for Christians whom you can talk to, share your feelings with, even express doubts with-this will be very hard unfortunatly, becareful whom you trust.
freezingstill 2 years ago
Do you want the sense of belonging? Maybe try organizing a group that is open to the public where you just discuss certain topics. The only thing that I can suggest is to make it safe and attractive for a variety of people. I'm sure that getting even a handful of people interested will be a lot of work. Then keeping them interested will be even more. The thing about continuing is that it doesn't have to. You will have met a few people who share in common with you something that you cherish.
ITeutonica 2 years ago
I personally would look around all over the place for an honest church and do the organizing a group as a last resort. That's what I'd do if I felt strong about the idea. I left the church a few years ago and I guess I haven't reached that time of wanting to go back. I love not being in it.
ITeutonica 2 years ago
Repent (change your opinion of Jesus and sin) and rely as best you can on the gospel that Christ died for your sins against God by dying in your place and then spend the rest of your life following him.
The only reason you won't go to church is because Jesus hates sin and the freedom you want is a church that says there is no such thing as sin. but what did Jesus say ? Even cut off your arm, for it is better for you to cut off one arm than for all of you to go into hell.
OpenFellowship 2 years ago
Just because people do beleive in God doesn't mean they are right either
kailremsasar 2 years ago
"But anyone who doesn't share that core belief of Christianity is going straight to hell when they die, according to what the majority of Christians believe"
Uhmmmm.
A majority of people once beleived the Earth to be flat. They were wrong. They once beleived that the female's part in the reproducction of the specie was basically to act as a vessel. They were wrong. They beleived bats were birds. They were wrong. Just because a lot of people beleive something, it does not make it true.
kailremsasar 2 years ago
Just because people don't believe in God doesn't mean they're right
BuzzMcTank 2 years ago
Wow this guy is good. All this time i thought Jesus freaks were religious nutballs.
seonf 2 years ago 9
@seonf I know! I can actually listen to this guy and not want to kill him like I do when I hear Pat Robertson or Jack Van Impe. Those bastards are poster-boys for what a Christian should never become! I am not religious, but what this guy says is on point. If Christians would take the Christ metaphor for what it is: a metaphor and stop reading further into it and taking everything literally like Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, etc, then there wouldn't be a term like Jesus freak!
drumlord420 1 year ago
Amen! God is LOVE! :->
Kevmike68 2 years ago
Recently, I purchased Bishop Spong's book, "Why Christianity Must Change or Die".
It is absolutely powerful. Bishop Spong challenges those who proclaim the Christian faith to actually think, rather than just believe.
There is always room for faith, but logic has its place as well.
Bishop Spong is a champion for true reform and change in the Body of Christ. It is ABSOLUTELY necessary.
brentduanefoster 3 years ago
The Bible says gayness is wrong. I didn't make that up! The Bible says it!!!
BuzzMcTank 2 years ago
the Bible does speak of sexual sins (homo&hetro) but it never adresses "gayness" at all, being gay is a sexual orientation something the bible does not speak about.
peace
boomac62 2 years ago
please quote the verse that says "and jesus said unto his disciples "lol gayness is wrong"." it never says in the bible that being homosexual is wrong, the verse used to say homosexuality is wrong either a)could be just as easily translated as sex with anyone is wrong, or b) mean that only man on man sex is wrong but lesbians can go at it all day and be fine.
TheHellBound666 2 years ago