methinks that oliver was in love with rosalind at first...that is why he enquires abt her..........i noe is sounds far fetched but hey! it's shakespeare//..
Wow! Thanks so much! I really needed to watch the play in order for me to really act like how Jacques is supposed to act. This upload helped a great deal. Thanks so much! :D
THIS IS AN INSULT TO THE ACTUAL PLAY!!!! I am reading it now and as it is the play sucks! The Merchant Of Venice In which Al pacino Has Enacted Shylock RULESSSSS !!! Must Watch!
Until now I have not discovered what kind of play such plays as this of Shakespeare are supposed to be: They are neither a tragedy nor a comedy or a mixture of both! Shakespeare gets close to writing tragedies and his histories could be considered a literature category of their own right; and so maybe could his plays as Twelfth Night, this one here, Much Ado about Nothing or the Merchant of Venice; I would call them Romances. But then again: A true poet does not care for categories!
@GreatGrumbledook Cymbeline, Tempest, and Winter's Tale are usually considered his "Romances", or tragicomedies. Measure is called a black comedy or problem comedy because of its subject matter; I have not heard anyone call Merchant a Romance: you can be the first! While the exact dates of composition and performance of Will's plays is far from certain, it seems like AYLI was between Julius and Hamlet...there are resemblances to both...
@1948BigCy: [due to the HAL 9000 mad computer phenomena I will make the answer via my new internet incarnation] No way! A tragicomedy has to be funny and there is not one scene to laugh in Cymbeline, The Tempest or Winter’s Tale! All they want to be tragedies is the tragic ending as they end all with a happy end; though this is not an argument against a play being a tragedy at all as even some of the classical Greek tragedies end up with a happy end like the Furies of Aeschylus!
@1948BigCy: And so is it in case of Measure for Measure as therein is the only funny scene when Lucio tells the disguised Duke lies about him and is later found out but else the entire play is purely romantic and melancholic! While in the Merchant of Venice there is a lot of romance: Portia/Bassanio, Nerissa/Gratiano and Jessica/Lorenzo; though the play is split into two: The bitter clash between Antonio and his Nemesis Shylock is as much importance than the loving couples.
@1948BigCy: Though I know many Shakespeare plays almost by heart but I never could order them in such a fashion nor seem so much resemblance in them; though Shakespeare has his topics on which he keeps harping on I cannot see in his works such temporal fix points. In the said case I cannot see how As You Like It does resemble Julius Caesar or Hamlet in any way; not even the melancholy Jacques equals the twisted Hamlet or the contemplative Brutus; as the Roman plays differ much from the rest.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Pleez...he steals lines from his own works...there are certain similarities in tone, characterization, and versification in the later plays..."melancholy Dane" hamlet is usually called...The last tragedies center on adult marital relationships as much as anything else...maybe will was missing Anne and wanted to return to Stratford....
@1948BigCy: But you do realize that in much Ado About Nothing Shakespeare has three marriages arranged and a band of exiled nobles dwelling in the forests plus the old brother hates brother tune; while you are right about the tendency of Shakespeare to mix sadness and happiness in his plays a lot; I can remember it best form the verses spoken by Claudius in Hamlet and Titus Andronicus in the tragedy bearing his name, when he returns from the bloody war against the Goths:
"Hail, Rome, victorious in thy mourning weeds! Lo, as the bark, that hath discharged her fraught, Returns with precious jading to the bay From whence at first she weigh'd her anchorage, Cometh Andronicus, bound with laurel boughs, To re-salute his country with his tears, Tears of true joy for his return to Rome. Thou great defender of this Capitol, Stand gracious to the rites that we intend!"
This mixture of mirth and sadness is often found in his plays.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Clauidius? I think that Hamlet: The Fresh Prince of Elsinore was written as a tour do force for Will's buddy Burbage...as a follow up to the company's biggest hit "Richard III"...they were at a low point perhaps...those kids who are mentioned by the lead player in the mousetrap play...they were real and very much in fashion...just a thought...
@1948BigCy: Could you please stop to refer to one of the greatest poets and playwrights in history by the colloquial shortening of his name? This is worse than G.B. Shaw declaring himself as equal counterpart of Shakespeare! And I know that in Hamlet Shakespeare revealed the only way how plays in theatre should be performed, especially his plays; but no the verses I was referring to were the ones Claudius did speak in the first act:
"Therefore our sometime sister, now our queen, The imperial jointress to this warlike state, Have we, as 'twere with a defeated joy,-- With an auspicious and a dropping eye, With mirth in funeral and with dirge in marriage, In equal scale weighing delight and dole,-- Taken to wife: nor have we herein barr'd Your better wisdoms, which have freely gone With this affair along. For all, our thanks."
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Usually Hamlet is cut up...Ben Jonson wrote about him being too wordy, and in this play he is at his wordiest...the "honey tongued" Shakespeare...perhaps in his day, the audience could sit still for about four hours and listen to these interminable speeches, but today's audiences, with short attention spans, must find it difficult...I prefer other of the Bard's tragedies...King Lear, Macbeth, Antony and Cleopatra (full of humor)...
@1948BigCy: And it is flat perjury to accuse Monsieur Shakespeare of using too much words in a particular play as he does always use 200 words when 5 would be suffice to others! And he has always such speeches and contemplations: Macbeth does them as much as Hamlet and so do Brutus or Coriolanus; and there is nothing funny about Antony & Cleopatra as it is one of his best tragedies; as I always say: The closer Shakespeare gets to ancient Rome the better his tragedies get.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Are you French? Monsieur Shak? True, he has all his major, and sometimes less than major, characters make speeches: "All the world's a stage", etc. Some are better than others. But this is, Frederich nothwithstanding, not the essence of Shak. His conversations between characters, dialogue, and passion is what makes him immortal. The tent scene in JC: flows so beautifully...how difficult it must have been to write!
@1948BigCy: Actually I am worse than just French but half-English too, though I do deny currently the English half of my blood until England stops acting as the puppy dog of the USA! As nobody could be currently able to recite the eulogy on England, which Shakespeare utters through John of Gaunt in Richard II! While you are partly right: The contemplative monologues and the vivid dialogues form the core of his art; and yes: His way of writing dialogues is amazing.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar SORREE!! Your love of the Bard is no greater than mine; it is better than Mr. Bill, isn't it? And seeing as he did not spell his own name the same way twice, it seems that in a cyber discussion like this, where characters are limited, a sensible way to go...of course, I mean no disrespect....Claudius and Gertrude...wadda pair...I agree Claudius' speech is well written...not much more...Anthony Hopkins did the best Claudius I've ever seen...
@1948BigCy: You know that in China during the rule of Mao the Red Guards did slay each other in the Great Proletarian Culture Revolution because they thought that they do love the Chairman Mao more than the others; so this argument is somewhat dangerous as we may have to fight a quarrel on the seventh cause about which one of us does love Shakespeare more; and it is the fault of the vicious Plain English Movement that the characters are limited here! They will force Shakespeare into exile!
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Hey! Don't complain to me! I was just relaying what others had said about them...True enough, some plays are difficult to categorize...They are called "Problem Plays" today, I believe...Even in his tragedies, Will had a little humor..
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I like the term "Romances" best, but that doesn't really describe what they are exacty...Doesn't require an entire comic scene...Caliban in the "Tempest" is one of Will's funniest and weirdest characters...the humor is much more subtle than in his other comedies, but it is there...
@1948BigCy: And you should follow the advise of Nietzsche, who said that one most forget the artist behind the piece of art, as Homer was no Achilles, Goethe no Faust and Shakespeare no Hamlet; and you should read one play of Aristophanes and Molière to get some anticipation of comedy in the strict sense of the word; and no Caliban will alter The Tempest to a comedy; as his follies are only a grain of mirth in a rather melancholy and romantic play.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Oh I totally agree...I am not a big fan of Will's so-called "comedies"...aside from famous lines and some great comic characters (one of my favorites is Touchstone), the plots of the comedies are pretty silly (As You Like It says it all...)....Aristophanes and Moliere were great, but no Shakespeares...Will learned from the Latin poets and Dramatists...the anti-Strats insist WHO wrote the plays really counts...THEY might disagree with Nietzsche...
@1948BigCy: I would beware of disagreeing with Monsieur Nietzsche as he can be very sharp in his arguments; so I would not contradict him on such sallow grounds as you tried to do it; while I think that the romances have their right to be as well: I totally love Twelfth Night and Much Ado about Nothing though I adore the tragedies; and for a tragedian Shakespeare was able to write pretty decent non-tragic plays; Euripides for example never could do this.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Histories, comedies, tragedies...steady growth in his development. That ol' Euripedes couldn't do it is irrelevant. True, a steady diet of either comedy or tragedy would be unsatisfying. We must have both. But your point is well taken: what single writer could write both genres...and so well?
@1948BigCy: Nope; as normally every tragedian is bound to write a Satyr play in order to help the audience to regain its emotional stability and sanity again; and believe me: The Medea, Trojan Women or Electra can be very intoxicating; and you did misunderstood me: The comedies of Shakespeare are a complete failure as comedies but as romantic plays still poetical and dramatic masterworks; so Shakespeare failed to write true comic plays but still created immortal poetry by doing so.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I am not up to date on the Greek plays...never liked them. Comedies failures? Maybe where you live...the rest of the world loves them...silly as some of them are (like those silly TV shows, e.g., "Friends")...of course you are right, it is MrShak's poetry, imagery, characterizations that keep them alive, plus those wonderful puns and scatology! But not the emotional catharsis and involvement that the later works put us through...dif'rent kettle of fish and chips...
@1948BigCy: Damn it! If that zealous monk in The Name of the Rose had not eaten up the book of Aristotle about the comedy this dispute would not have been occurred; but the comedies of Shakespeare fail in being comical they are merely romantic; and their popularity is no argument here. There maybe funny scenes but their entire story is not funny Rosalind may say that she loves no woman when being disguised as Ganymede but the play does not become funny by this.
@1948BigCy: Look at Molière or Aristophanes: Their plays are deceived to be funny all the time and the entire story is a comical one; but were is that in Twelfth Night: That Olivia loves Viola considering her to be a boy is not funny; and so is the trick the Prince and his conspirators play Benedict and Beatrice when they make them mutually believe that the other one is deeply in love with. The only funny element here is Dogberry confusing his words in a hilarious manner.
@1948BigCy: So is it with the Merchant of Venice: Lancelot Gobo is a mere spice, not even a secondary figure, only a clown; the bitter hatred between Shylock and Antonio is not funny; nor the pleading of Portia for mercy or her outwitting Shylock with jurisprudence; sure Gratiano adopting the Second Daniel line of Shylock and minting them on Shylock is quite funny but it is only a spice and not the heart and soul of the play; and with that I end in hope to have explained my point a bit.
@1948BigCy: As for the Greek plays I assume that tastes are different but the Greek triad (Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides) copes with matters much more serious than Monsieur Shakespeare ever does; his political plays like Henry VI Part I-III or Julius Caesar are not half as earnest as the Antigone of Sophocles is; the desire of Hamlet for vengeance is nothing to that seen the Electra by Euripides and Sophocles (both wrote a play of that name) or the Liberation Bearers by Aeschylus.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I can't relate to the Greek tragedies...their frame of reference is too out of date for me...dramatic conventions...the whole "fate" thing...
I feel that the Greek characters were not really people but symbols, that the plots were somewhat manipulative...but since this is the birth of drama, quite excusable...
Shakespeare is on another plane entirely...I really don't see how they can be compared...
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Oh, come on...Mr Shak used the same plot devices time and time again...whether you consider them comedic is beside the point...the audience found them hilarious...boys played girls roles....mistaken identity...banishing people...he never wrote an original plot in his life, cept perhaps the Tempest...Jonson wrote the satires, which I suppose you would call "true" comedy...problem is situation trumped characterisations...sort of like your Greek plays...
@FireEyedMaidOfWar What is your definition of "funny"? I suppose what some people consider funny, others don't. Matter of taste, opinion. Is comedy the opposite of tragedy? If it makes you smile is it a comedy? If it makes you laugh more than it makes you cry is it a comedy? I really don't think there are hard and fast rules...specially in Mr Shak's day...
How about a division like this: the Bard's "Light-Hearted" plays vs. his "Serious Plays"?
@1948BigCy: It was so in Athens and since we still use the Greek names this allocation has some fundamental truth in it; and it is easy to decide that the core of the comedies of Shakespeare lack any comic element; they may have still humorous parts but are not comical as a play; I will explain you by referring to Molière: Take his play the Miser, where you have this extremely greedy father and his children suffer under him; and his greed mocked in his person.
@1948BigCy: So when the lover of his daughter woos for her the Miser thinks that he is the thief of his money casket and do refer to it; and so the scene is comical:
Valére: Ah! Sir, you wrong us both; the flame with which I burn is too pure, too full of respect.
Harpagon: (aside). He burns for my casket!
Valére: I had rather die than show the least offensive thought: I found too much modesty and too much purity for that.
@1948BigCy: Did I mention already that had the plays of the Greek triad Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides had survived completely each one of them would have easily hurled down Shakespeare from his theatrical throne? And the concept of fate is the core of the Greek religion and despising it will earn you a fancy Homer quote; and when the Gods are involved the mortals are manipulated, as Shakespeare put it in King Lear, by the Earl of Gloucester:
"I have heard more since. As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods. They kill us for their sport."
But now to the Homer quote:
"For two urns are set upon the floor of Zeus of gifts that he giveth, the one of ills, the other of blessings. To whomsoever Zeus, that hurleth the thunderbolt, giveth a mingled lot, that man meeteth now with evil, now with good; but to whomsoever he giveth but of the baneful, him he maketh to be reviled of man..."
@1948BigCy: And yes: It was much amiss that the female roles were not played by women at his times; as this must have ruined much of the effect; I cannot imagine a boy playing Cleopatra or Lady Macbeth; and Shakespeare was indeed prone to have his heroines change their attire and wander as males as this occurs so often in his comedies that here must be some deeper cause behind it. While I think Shakespeare was one of the most original writers ever.
@1948BigCy: He does never repeat himself: Macbeth is driven by ambition, Richard by the dislike he bears his miss-shaped shape, Edmund by envy and Othello by hatred; and every artist is inspired by other thinks so there is nothing amiss in Shakespeare using the writings of Plutarch or Holinshed to create his plays; and so is it with his comedies: In Much Ado About Nothing it is the romantic duel of Beatrice and Benedict, in Twelfth Night the confusing of the twins and no on.
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Pleez...the Bard reworked plays...twins were in comedy of errors too...Othello is much more complex than mere hatred, but I'm not talking about solely motives...lines, plot devices, etc...MrShak is immortal because of the characters he created and the poetry, plus of course, his insights into the human soul, its darkness as well as its beauty...I don't see anything like that in the Greek Dramas, much as I admire the Athenians...
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Well, being an atheist myself, I really don't care if there is one god or hundreds..."This is the excellent foppery of the world..."...evil Edmund knew how stupid it was to blame the stars or god for our misfortunes...Greek plays and Elizabethan plays are close to incomparable...I really doubt that many people would be attending a "Sophocles Festival"...maybe if it were outdoors and they could bring their own beer...
@1948BigCy: No wonder that you are so keen on Shakespeare as in his plays no Fate or Gods play any role; but beware: Read the characteristics of war, which Carl von Clausewitz unveiled in his famous book On War, and than compare them to the characteristics Homer did give the Goddess Pallas Athena in the Iliad and Odyssey and be afraid; and as you mentioned Sophocles already I will give you his warning against blasphemy straight away:
"Of happiness the chiefest part Is a wise heart: And to defraud the gods in aught With peril's fraught. Swelling words of high-flown might Mightily the gods do smite. Chastisement for errors past Wisdom brings to age at last."
@1948BigCy: While I do not care how many people would watch Sophocles as by this criteria Shakespeare would be defeated by the vulgar modern musicals! So this is certainly no criteria but the plays of Marlow seem to be closer to the traditional tragedy.
@1948BigCy: Actually I think Shakespeare draws the human soul far too noble and fair; in comparison to the Greek plays his characters scarcely seem to be real humans; but if you fail to see this in the Greek plays I lack the ability to show it to you; but please tell me: Which plays have you seen or read already? And though I wish Shakespeare immortality he still has to survive the downfall of European civilization to reach the same glory as the Greek poets did as they endured even Christendom!
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I plead guilty to not reading many Greek plays...but I didn't pretend that I did. Which do you recommend I start with? I'll read up on Greek theatre...the last time I read a Greek play was in High School, the early 60's...maybe I'll like them better now than I did then...
From what I remember, they bear little resemblance to Shakespeare's works. They were of a different time, a different place...
@1948BigCy: At the moment not reading the Greek tragedies is no court-martial offence and it is not likely to be made one until I have reclaimed the almost forgotten throne of Charlemagne! And I can only recommend you my favourite plays: Antigone (Sophocles), Electra (twice, as Euripides and Sophocles wrote one), Seven against Thebes (Aeschylus), The Persians (Aeschylus), The Oresteia (three plays, Aeschylus), the Trojan Women (Euripides) and Hippolytos (Euripides).
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Catch up to who? Authors or characters or both? Again, in exactly what ways do you feel the Greek writers were superior to Mr. Shaxper? Certainly not poetry-wise. Plotting? Knowledge of the human soul? True Shakesper deviated from the Greek ideals of unity of time, etc., but that is hardly a fault. In many ways the two are incomparable. The Greek gods and fate vs. the Christian God and burgeoning humanism.
@1948BigCy: In matters of tragic essence and seriousness; as Shakespeare is to playful, to obsessed with his brilliant poetry and his figures are too noble and indifferent to be taken as real humans; they are more like humanity should be than the way it is; and Shakespeare never indulged into the Christian concept of providence, which is pretty much the same than the Greek concept of fate, save that it does harp on the good and bad actions, which Jehovah does either reward or punish.
@mmmbunnies: O, the Gods defend my soul from such deep sin! Shall I seem crest-fall'n in the common sight? Or with pale beggar-fear impeach my height before you out-dared dastard? Ere my tongue Shall wound my honour with such feeble wrong, or sound so base a parle, my teeth shall tear the slavish motive of recanting fear, and spit it bleeding in his high disgrace, where shame doth harbour, even in your face!
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Not a CM offense...? WHEW! That's a load off MY mind! They're all available online for free, so poor poets like myself can read them...
Thank you so much for having this available. I was hoping to find a full play for the play I'll be performing in. I wanted an idea of how each character appears and acts.
awsome 1..
parthrokz 7 months ago
methinks that oliver was in love with rosalind at first...that is why he enquires abt her..........i noe is sounds far fetched but hey! it's shakespeare//..
UndeadAbyss 1 year ago
Wow! Thanks so much! I really needed to watch the play in order for me to really act like how Jacques is supposed to act. This upload helped a great deal. Thanks so much! :D
jasminlois 1 year ago
THIS IS AN INSULT TO THE ACTUAL PLAY!!!! I am reading it now and as it is the play sucks! The Merchant Of Venice In which Al pacino Has Enacted Shylock RULESSSSS !!! Must Watch!
983392 1 year ago
@983392 OMG SEEN THAT. LOVE THAT. I MEAN, I WATCHED IT FOR FUN EVEN AFTER I WAS DONE STUDYING THE PLAY! EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE BY PACINO!
PoppyGenius11 1 year ago
@983392 I'm sure Will, wherever he is, is REAL UPSET that you don't like his play...he was hoping you would....
1948BigCy 1 year ago
Until now I have not discovered what kind of play such plays as this of Shakespeare are supposed to be: They are neither a tragedy nor a comedy or a mixture of both! Shakespeare gets close to writing tragedies and his histories could be considered a literature category of their own right; and so maybe could his plays as Twelfth Night, this one here, Much Ado about Nothing or the Merchant of Venice; I would call them Romances. But then again: A true poet does not care for categories!
GreatGrumbledook 2 years ago
@GreatGrumbledook Cymbeline, Tempest, and Winter's Tale are usually considered his "Romances", or tragicomedies. Measure is called a black comedy or problem comedy because of its subject matter; I have not heard anyone call Merchant a Romance: you can be the first! While the exact dates of composition and performance of Will's plays is far from certain, it seems like AYLI was between Julius and Hamlet...there are resemblances to both...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: [due to the HAL 9000 mad computer phenomena I will make the answer via my new internet incarnation] No way! A tragicomedy has to be funny and there is not one scene to laugh in Cymbeline, The Tempest or Winter’s Tale! All they want to be tragedies is the tragic ending as they end all with a happy end; though this is not an argument against a play being a tragedy at all as even some of the classical Greek tragedies end up with a happy end like the Furies of Aeschylus!
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: And so is it in case of Measure for Measure as therein is the only funny scene when Lucio tells the disguised Duke lies about him and is later found out but else the entire play is purely romantic and melancholic! While in the Merchant of Venice there is a lot of romance: Portia/Bassanio, Nerissa/Gratiano and Jessica/Lorenzo; though the play is split into two: The bitter clash between Antonio and his Nemesis Shylock is as much importance than the loving couples.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Though I know many Shakespeare plays almost by heart but I never could order them in such a fashion nor seem so much resemblance in them; though Shakespeare has his topics on which he keeps harping on I cannot see in his works such temporal fix points. In the said case I cannot see how As You Like It does resemble Julius Caesar or Hamlet in any way; not even the melancholy Jacques equals the twisted Hamlet or the contemplative Brutus; as the Roman plays differ much from the rest.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Pleez...he steals lines from his own works...there are certain similarities in tone, characterization, and versification in the later plays..."melancholy Dane" hamlet is usually called...The last tragedies center on adult marital relationships as much as anything else...maybe will was missing Anne and wanted to return to Stratford....
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: But you do realize that in much Ado About Nothing Shakespeare has three marriages arranged and a band of exiled nobles dwelling in the forests plus the old brother hates brother tune; while you are right about the tendency of Shakespeare to mix sadness and happiness in his plays a lot; I can remember it best form the verses spoken by Claudius in Hamlet and Titus Andronicus in the tragedy bearing his name, when he returns from the bloody war against the Goths:
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
"Hail, Rome, victorious in thy mourning weeds! Lo, as the bark, that hath discharged her fraught, Returns with precious jading to the bay From whence at first she weigh'd her anchorage, Cometh Andronicus, bound with laurel boughs, To re-salute his country with his tears, Tears of true joy for his return to Rome. Thou great defender of this Capitol, Stand gracious to the rites that we intend!"
This mixture of mirth and sadness is often found in his plays.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Clauidius? I think that Hamlet: The Fresh Prince of Elsinore was written as a tour do force for Will's buddy Burbage...as a follow up to the company's biggest hit "Richard III"...they were at a low point perhaps...those kids who are mentioned by the lead player in the mousetrap play...they were real and very much in fashion...just a thought...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Could you please stop to refer to one of the greatest poets and playwrights in history by the colloquial shortening of his name? This is worse than G.B. Shaw declaring himself as equal counterpart of Shakespeare! And I know that in Hamlet Shakespeare revealed the only way how plays in theatre should be performed, especially his plays; but no the verses I was referring to were the ones Claudius did speak in the first act:
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
"Therefore our sometime sister, now our queen, The imperial jointress to this warlike state, Have we, as 'twere with a defeated joy,-- With an auspicious and a dropping eye, With mirth in funeral and with dirge in marriage, In equal scale weighing delight and dole,-- Taken to wife: nor have we herein barr'd Your better wisdoms, which have freely gone With this affair along. For all, our thanks."
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Usually Hamlet is cut up...Ben Jonson wrote about him being too wordy, and in this play he is at his wordiest...the "honey tongued" Shakespeare...perhaps in his day, the audience could sit still for about four hours and listen to these interminable speeches, but today's audiences, with short attention spans, must find it difficult...I prefer other of the Bard's tragedies...King Lear, Macbeth, Antony and Cleopatra (full of humor)...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: And it is flat perjury to accuse Monsieur Shakespeare of using too much words in a particular play as he does always use 200 words when 5 would be suffice to others! And he has always such speeches and contemplations: Macbeth does them as much as Hamlet and so do Brutus or Coriolanus; and there is nothing funny about Antony & Cleopatra as it is one of his best tragedies; as I always say: The closer Shakespeare gets to ancient Rome the better his tragedies get.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Are you French? Monsieur Shak? True, he has all his major, and sometimes less than major, characters make speeches: "All the world's a stage", etc. Some are better than others. But this is, Frederich nothwithstanding, not the essence of Shak. His conversations between characters, dialogue, and passion is what makes him immortal. The tent scene in JC: flows so beautifully...how difficult it must have been to write!
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Actually I am worse than just French but half-English too, though I do deny currently the English half of my blood until England stops acting as the puppy dog of the USA! As nobody could be currently able to recite the eulogy on England, which Shakespeare utters through John of Gaunt in Richard II! While you are partly right: The contemplative monologues and the vivid dialogues form the core of his art; and yes: His way of writing dialogues is amazing.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar SORREE!! Your love of the Bard is no greater than mine; it is better than Mr. Bill, isn't it? And seeing as he did not spell his own name the same way twice, it seems that in a cyber discussion like this, where characters are limited, a sensible way to go...of course, I mean no disrespect....Claudius and Gertrude...wadda pair...I agree Claudius' speech is well written...not much more...Anthony Hopkins did the best Claudius I've ever seen...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: You know that in China during the rule of Mao the Red Guards did slay each other in the Great Proletarian Culture Revolution because they thought that they do love the Chairman Mao more than the others; so this argument is somewhat dangerous as we may have to fight a quarrel on the seventh cause about which one of us does love Shakespeare more; and it is the fault of the vicious Plain English Movement that the characters are limited here! They will force Shakespeare into exile!
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Zounds!! Seems like Ch. Mao has read "Lear"! Not that I love Caesar less, but that I love Rome More!!
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Hey! Don't complain to me! I was just relaying what others had said about them...True enough, some plays are difficult to categorize...They are called "Problem Plays" today, I believe...Even in his tragedies, Will had a little humor..
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I like the term "Romances" best, but that doesn't really describe what they are exacty...Doesn't require an entire comic scene...Caliban in the "Tempest" is one of Will's funniest and weirdest characters...the humor is much more subtle than in his other comedies, but it is there...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: And you should follow the advise of Nietzsche, who said that one most forget the artist behind the piece of art, as Homer was no Achilles, Goethe no Faust and Shakespeare no Hamlet; and you should read one play of Aristophanes and Molière to get some anticipation of comedy in the strict sense of the word; and no Caliban will alter The Tempest to a comedy; as his follies are only a grain of mirth in a rather melancholy and romantic play.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Oh I totally agree...I am not a big fan of Will's so-called "comedies"...aside from famous lines and some great comic characters (one of my favorites is Touchstone), the plots of the comedies are pretty silly (As You Like It says it all...)....Aristophanes and Moliere were great, but no Shakespeares...Will learned from the Latin poets and Dramatists...the anti-Strats insist WHO wrote the plays really counts...THEY might disagree with Nietzsche...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: I would beware of disagreeing with Monsieur Nietzsche as he can be very sharp in his arguments; so I would not contradict him on such sallow grounds as you tried to do it; while I think that the romances have their right to be as well: I totally love Twelfth Night and Much Ado about Nothing though I adore the tragedies; and for a tragedian Shakespeare was able to write pretty decent non-tragic plays; Euripides for example never could do this.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Histories, comedies, tragedies...steady growth in his development. That ol' Euripedes couldn't do it is irrelevant. True, a steady diet of either comedy or tragedy would be unsatisfying. We must have both. But your point is well taken: what single writer could write both genres...and so well?
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Nope; as normally every tragedian is bound to write a Satyr play in order to help the audience to regain its emotional stability and sanity again; and believe me: The Medea, Trojan Women or Electra can be very intoxicating; and you did misunderstood me: The comedies of Shakespeare are a complete failure as comedies but as romantic plays still poetical and dramatic masterworks; so Shakespeare failed to write true comic plays but still created immortal poetry by doing so.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I am not up to date on the Greek plays...never liked them. Comedies failures? Maybe where you live...the rest of the world loves them...silly as some of them are (like those silly TV shows, e.g., "Friends")...of course you are right, it is MrShak's poetry, imagery, characterizations that keep them alive, plus those wonderful puns and scatology! But not the emotional catharsis and involvement that the later works put us through...dif'rent kettle of fish and chips...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Damn it! If that zealous monk in The Name of the Rose had not eaten up the book of Aristotle about the comedy this dispute would not have been occurred; but the comedies of Shakespeare fail in being comical they are merely romantic; and their popularity is no argument here. There maybe funny scenes but their entire story is not funny Rosalind may say that she loves no woman when being disguised as Ganymede but the play does not become funny by this.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Look at Molière or Aristophanes: Their plays are deceived to be funny all the time and the entire story is a comical one; but were is that in Twelfth Night: That Olivia loves Viola considering her to be a boy is not funny; and so is the trick the Prince and his conspirators play Benedict and Beatrice when they make them mutually believe that the other one is deeply in love with. The only funny element here is Dogberry confusing his words in a hilarious manner.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: So is it with the Merchant of Venice: Lancelot Gobo is a mere spice, not even a secondary figure, only a clown; the bitter hatred between Shylock and Antonio is not funny; nor the pleading of Portia for mercy or her outwitting Shylock with jurisprudence; sure Gratiano adopting the Second Daniel line of Shylock and minting them on Shylock is quite funny but it is only a spice and not the heart and soul of the play; and with that I end in hope to have explained my point a bit.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: As for the Greek plays I assume that tastes are different but the Greek triad (Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides) copes with matters much more serious than Monsieur Shakespeare ever does; his political plays like Henry VI Part I-III or Julius Caesar are not half as earnest as the Antigone of Sophocles is; the desire of Hamlet for vengeance is nothing to that seen the Electra by Euripides and Sophocles (both wrote a play of that name) or the Liberation Bearers by Aeschylus.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I can't relate to the Greek tragedies...their frame of reference is too out of date for me...dramatic conventions...the whole "fate" thing...
I feel that the Greek characters were not really people but symbols, that the plots were somewhat manipulative...but since this is the birth of drama, quite excusable...
Shakespeare is on another plane entirely...I really don't see how they can be compared...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Oh, come on...Mr Shak used the same plot devices time and time again...whether you consider them comedic is beside the point...the audience found them hilarious...boys played girls roles....mistaken identity...banishing people...he never wrote an original plot in his life, cept perhaps the Tempest...Jonson wrote the satires, which I suppose you would call "true" comedy...problem is situation trumped characterisations...sort of like your Greek plays...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar What is your definition of "funny"? I suppose what some people consider funny, others don't. Matter of taste, opinion. Is comedy the opposite of tragedy? If it makes you smile is it a comedy? If it makes you laugh more than it makes you cry is it a comedy? I really don't think there are hard and fast rules...specially in Mr Shak's day...
How about a division like this: the Bard's "Light-Hearted" plays vs. his "Serious Plays"?
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: It was so in Athens and since we still use the Greek names this allocation has some fundamental truth in it; and it is easy to decide that the core of the comedies of Shakespeare lack any comic element; they may have still humorous parts but are not comical as a play; I will explain you by referring to Molière: Take his play the Miser, where you have this extremely greedy father and his children suffer under him; and his greed mocked in his person.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: So when the lover of his daughter woos for her the Miser thinks that he is the thief of his money casket and do refer to it; and so the scene is comical:
Valére: Ah! Sir, you wrong us both; the flame with which I burn is too pure, too full of respect.
Harpagon: (aside). He burns for my casket!
Valére: I had rather die than show the least offensive thought: I found too much modesty and too much purity for that.
Harpagon: (aside). My cash-box modest!
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Did I mention already that had the plays of the Greek triad Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides had survived completely each one of them would have easily hurled down Shakespeare from his theatrical throne? And the concept of fate is the core of the Greek religion and despising it will earn you a fancy Homer quote; and when the Gods are involved the mortals are manipulated, as Shakespeare put it in King Lear, by the Earl of Gloucester:
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
"I have heard more since. As flies to wanton boys, are we to the gods. They kill us for their sport."
But now to the Homer quote:
"For two urns are set upon the floor of Zeus of gifts that he giveth, the one of ills, the other of blessings. To whomsoever Zeus, that hurleth the thunderbolt, giveth a mingled lot, that man meeteth now with evil, now with good; but to whomsoever he giveth but of the baneful, him he maketh to be reviled of man..."
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: And yes: It was much amiss that the female roles were not played by women at his times; as this must have ruined much of the effect; I cannot imagine a boy playing Cleopatra or Lady Macbeth; and Shakespeare was indeed prone to have his heroines change their attire and wander as males as this occurs so often in his comedies that here must be some deeper cause behind it. While I think Shakespeare was one of the most original writers ever.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: He does never repeat himself: Macbeth is driven by ambition, Richard by the dislike he bears his miss-shaped shape, Edmund by envy and Othello by hatred; and every artist is inspired by other thinks so there is nothing amiss in Shakespeare using the writings of Plutarch or Holinshed to create his plays; and so is it with his comedies: In Much Ado About Nothing it is the romantic duel of Beatrice and Benedict, in Twelfth Night the confusing of the twins and no on.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Pleez...the Bard reworked plays...twins were in comedy of errors too...Othello is much more complex than mere hatred, but I'm not talking about solely motives...lines, plot devices, etc...MrShak is immortal because of the characters he created and the poetry, plus of course, his insights into the human soul, its darkness as well as its beauty...I don't see anything like that in the Greek Dramas, much as I admire the Athenians...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Well, being an atheist myself, I really don't care if there is one god or hundreds..."This is the excellent foppery of the world..."...evil Edmund knew how stupid it was to blame the stars or god for our misfortunes...Greek plays and Elizabethan plays are close to incomparable...I really doubt that many people would be attending a "Sophocles Festival"...maybe if it were outdoors and they could bring their own beer...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: No wonder that you are so keen on Shakespeare as in his plays no Fate or Gods play any role; but beware: Read the characteristics of war, which Carl von Clausewitz unveiled in his famous book On War, and than compare them to the characteristics Homer did give the Goddess Pallas Athena in the Iliad and Odyssey and be afraid; and as you mentioned Sophocles already I will give you his warning against blasphemy straight away:
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
"Of happiness the chiefest part Is a wise heart: And to defraud the gods in aught With peril's fraught. Swelling words of high-flown might Mightily the gods do smite. Chastisement for errors past Wisdom brings to age at last."
@1948BigCy: While I do not care how many people would watch Sophocles as by this criteria Shakespeare would be defeated by the vulgar modern musicals! So this is certainly no criteria but the plays of Marlow seem to be closer to the traditional tragedy.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: Actually I think Shakespeare draws the human soul far too noble and fair; in comparison to the Greek plays his characters scarcely seem to be real humans; but if you fail to see this in the Greek plays I lack the ability to show it to you; but please tell me: Which plays have you seen or read already? And though I wish Shakespeare immortality he still has to survive the downfall of European civilization to reach the same glory as the Greek poets did as they endured even Christendom!
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar I plead guilty to not reading many Greek plays...but I didn't pretend that I did. Which do you recommend I start with? I'll read up on Greek theatre...the last time I read a Greek play was in High School, the early 60's...maybe I'll like them better now than I did then...
From what I remember, they bear little resemblance to Shakespeare's works. They were of a different time, a different place...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: At the moment not reading the Greek tragedies is no court-martial offence and it is not likely to be made one until I have reclaimed the almost forgotten throne of Charlemagne! And I can only recommend you my favourite plays: Antigone (Sophocles), Electra (twice, as Euripides and Sophocles wrote one), Seven against Thebes (Aeschylus), The Persians (Aeschylus), The Oresteia (three plays, Aeschylus), the Trojan Women (Euripides) and Hippolytos (Euripides).
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: When Shakespeare is best (like in Coriolanus, Julius Caesar or Antony & Cleopatra), he manages to catch up to them.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Catch up to who? Authors or characters or both? Again, in exactly what ways do you feel the Greek writers were superior to Mr. Shaxper? Certainly not poetry-wise. Plotting? Knowledge of the human soul? True Shakesper deviated from the Greek ideals of unity of time, etc., but that is hardly a fault. In many ways the two are incomparable. The Greek gods and fate vs. the Christian God and burgeoning humanism.
1948BigCy 1 year ago
@1948BigCy: In matters of tragic essence and seriousness; as Shakespeare is to playful, to obsessed with his brilliant poetry and his figures are too noble and indifferent to be taken as real humans; they are more like humanity should be than the way it is; and Shakespeare never indulged into the Christian concept of providence, which is pretty much the same than the Greek concept of fate, save that it does harp on the good and bad actions, which Jehovah does either reward or punish.
FireEyedMaidOfWar 1 year ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar and @1948BigCy Shut up please, I'm trying to watch the movie.
mmmbunnies 10 months ago 3
@mmmbunnies: O, the Gods defend my soul from such deep sin! Shall I seem crest-fall'n in the common sight? Or with pale beggar-fear impeach my height before you out-dared dastard? Ere my tongue Shall wound my honour with such feeble wrong, or sound so base a parle, my teeth shall tear the slavish motive of recanting fear, and spit it bleeding in his high disgrace, where shame doth harbour, even in your face!
FireEyedMaidOfWar 10 months ago
@mmmbunnies lol! Good one!
sgelsey 9 months ago
@FireEyedMaidOfWar Not a CM offense...? WHEW! That's a load off MY mind! They're all available online for free, so poor poets like myself can read them...
1948BigCy 1 year ago
I'm so glad these Shakespeare productions (in the original language) are on YT. They really help with my homework for English! Grazie!
Saraculture13 2 years ago
Thank you so much for having this available. I was hoping to find a full play for the play I'll be performing in. I wanted an idea of how each character appears and acts.
SugarStar66 2 years ago
THANK YOU!!! I just finished reading the play for the first time and LOVED it.
way2musical 2 years ago
YES! Thank You!
Celtjew 2 years ago 2