New Split Cycle Engine Concept: The Doyle Rotary Engine

[DoyleRotary]

@Agouti P4

If you get a chance to check out the web site let me know what you think.

Feel free to post on our Disqus page. I should have some more images and progress coming up soon.

I will agree that this may be too complicated and/or not feasible for us to build in my shop. I am trying to build this with scrap materials and a very low budget. We self fund the DRE which makes progress very slow at times.

We hope to have a running prototype in a couple of months.

Thanks again

Lonny Doyle

[DoyleRotary]

@Agouti P3

This is how we obtain our stroke.

The earliest form of the rotary engine was Gnome engine introduced in 1913.

It also revolved around a fixed crank similar to the DRE.

If we were to hold the outer housing and spin the crank it would then be a reciprocating piston engine.

As far as follow up I would have to assume you have not been to our web site.

I have been logging the progress on our newest prototype with images and my last post was only a week ago.

Cont.

[DoyleRotary]

@Agouti P2

We also claim that the DRE moves in a rotating motion rather than a reciprocating motion.

The outer housing rotates on a fixed axis and always stays the same distance from this axis.

The pistons are attached to the outer housing using connecting rods that are a fixed length.

This means that the pistons at TDC are the same distance from the center of rotation as they are at BDC.

The cyl. block revolves around a fixed axis that is offset from the outer housing axis.

Cont.

[DoyleRotary]

@Agouti P1

First of all thanks for you interest.

I will try to address your two claims of our false boasts.

We do claim to have fewer moving parts and I will explain how we compared this to a conventional engine.

An 8 cyl. DRE has rods and pistons just the same as an 8 cyl. Otto cycle.

We have a rotating housing that would be equivalent to the crank and flywheel.

The only other DRE moving part is the cyl. block.

A conventional V8 valve train has approximately 131 moving parts.

Cont.

[Agouti]

"Fewer moving parts"? "No reciprocating motion"? These 2 boasts are clearly false and destroy a lot of credibility. While interesting, the fact that there has been no follow up or early prototype proves that it's too complicated or otherwise unfeasible, in my mind.

[MRKNIGHT]

How big is your starter? You have to turn a lot of mass to get your engine started.

[DoyleRotary]

@RockFORD8371HAYLEY3B

The DRE prototype we are currently building is 4.2 liters (256 cubic inches).

It should have outputs comparable to a similar sized conventional four strokes found in today's automobiles. A 4.2 liter should produce around 300 ft lbs of torque and around 300 H.P.

We will not know for sure until a DRE is refined and tested. We are still in the early stages of development.

You can check out our progress on our website, we have images of our progress.

[RockFORD8371HAYLEY3B]

What are the torque production in feet\pounds and total internal displacement in cubic inch's? What are your goals as far as driving\working rpm. Thanks

[adztermancoool]

looks cool and very efficient in theory but i've yet to see a working model or prototype

[UOYtaLOL]

Interesting design.. however you still are still relying on a proven failed design. That would be apex seals..

[ADoyle88]

@UOYtaLOL

From wikipedia:

"Early engine designs had a high incidence of sealing loss...however, Mazda Wankel engines have solved these problems." The 2011 Mazda RX8's "sole engine is a 1.3-liter RENESIS two-rotor rotary engine."

Finally, "In 2010 Audi revealed that in their electric car... they would have a small 250 cc Wankel engine... FEV Inc revealed that in their electric version of the Fiat 500 a wankel engine would be used."

Mazda, Audi and FEV seem to trust the seals.

[UOYtaLOL]

@ADoyle88 Quotes from manufactures.. okay.. well mazda as you know has discontinued their only rotary powered car.. What does that say about the trust in the powerplants design. hmmm... more or less a Novelty item? Mazda has always said they've newly improved their wankels. however the fact of the mater is the seals still fail, with either weak springs, corner/side seals gumming up, or just the good old fashioned blow out. Audi & Fev, "would have" & "would be used" != 30,000+mi proven.

[ADoyle88]

@UOYtaLOL

You bring up good points about spring pressure problems and seals gumming up. Notice that in our engine the seals have a much gentler life. They do not have to adapt to changing angles relative to the surface they are sealing against and they do not cover as much surface during one revolution. The simpler path will allow us to run much lower spring pressures (closer to the pressure of piston rings) and allow the seals to last longer.

[ADoyle88]

@UOYtaLOL

Also, we have tinkered with ideas to seal the ports in other ways beside Wankel seals. However, when prototyping, we figure why take on the task of reconfiguring the engine AND inventing sealing technologies? For prototyping purposes it makes sense to pull parts off the shelf to eliminate challenges. You can understand the challenges we are facing without complicating the process.

[eddied96]

@UOYtaLOL /watch?v=_6v-HugbwR0 now go do sum research..

[DoyleRotary]

@Joe11Blue

Actually the use of sleeve inserts being the future is inaccurate. OEMs are starting to use a plasma coating that is sprayed directly on the aluminum cylinder bores.

Google the articles below, this is the process we would like to use on the DRE.

Nanoslide cuts friction on Mercedes-Benz engines

VW plasma spray on cylinders.

Mercedes saves 9.5 lbs on their 6 cyl. engine. This would be a 19 lb saving for the DRE. It would remove almost half of the cylinder blocks weight.

[un7ucky]

sory but how do you attach the crank? and isnt this really heavy to spin? i mean if you only move the piston you are moving 1/30 of the total weight. you spin everything and you are turning 3/4 of the total weight

[ADoyle88]

@un7ucky

The crank is the stationary portion that contains the ports, spark plug and injector. A flywheel or torque converter attaches to the the housing that spins.

We addressed the mass in the video. Because the engine is inherently balanced, no weight has to be added for balancing, so the rotating mass actually comes in under that of a comparably sized conventional engine.

Also, do not forget about how small the DRE is. Check out the chart at the end of the video.

[un7ucky]

@ADoyle88 thanks for getting back to me, yes i did see the chart, but i commented too early to see it. :/

one thing that i was wondering was how does centrifugal force affect the pistons, as you reach higher RMPs the ...outside part (engine housing?) has to push back harder to compress the pistons..or iam i getting mixed up.

any ways iam asking if centrifugal force will cause a decrease in efficiency as higher RMPs are reached?

do you have a running one again? i saw the old footage

[un7ucky]

@ADoyle88 another question whats the power to weight ratio of this engine? i mean compared to a v-12 (this one is 12 cylinder right?)

[ADoyle88]

@un7ucky

We aren't sure how much power the engine is going to produce. One thing to keep in mind is that this is just a self-funded hobby of ours. My dad has been tinkering with the idea longer than I've been alive and is finally to a point that he can dedicate more time to it. I've just been producing some videos and other media and helping out however I can.

We could make up some efficiency numbers to try to impress you but why not just build it and tell you real life results?

[un7ucky]

@ADoyle88 oh yeah, well i cant wait until you have another one running :D

[BulagenRu]

What about Coriolis forces? How much is it for one piston on 3000 PRM ?

[Joe11Blue]

How are you expecting this thing to be rebuilt after something as catastrophic as detonation in the chamber? To me it looks like the whole thing would be a loss at that point.

[DoyleRotary]

@Joe11Blue

Today,s computer engine management systems monitor for detonation and correct it before it posses a problem. This allows OEMs to run engines as efficient as possible.

We only add fuel in the combustion chamber which is durable enough to withstand continuous detonation for long periods if it was to go undetected.

If we had to perform a catastrophic rebuild many of the parts are replaceable.

Pistons, cylinder liners, Mazda seals, seal sleeves and plates, and rods are easily replaced.

[DoyleRotary]

@Joe11Blue

If the stationary crank received damage, the section(s) of the crank that are damaged can be replaced.

It is unlikely that the outer housing or the cylinder block would not be repairable.

If today's engines drop a valve or kick a rod though the block they are usually not rebuilt.

If OEM engines are frequently failing before a reasonable period of use they address the problem and then redesign them.

A catastrophic failure should be very rare if designed properly.

[Joe11Blue]

@DoyleRotary This is inaccurate though. One of the reasons many manufactures are going with the open deck designs with sleeve inserts is because the sleeves can be repaired in case of rod or valve retention failure.

I'm not trying to discount the design, as I'm very interested in it. I think an engine of this nature would be excellent at driving a generator for an electric drive vehicle. The engine itself would only have to be steady state and thusly would be far more efficient.

[Joe11Blue]

@DoyleRotary I personally think the way of vehicles have to be in the future is a Hybrid design based on the same principles that Diesel Electric Locomotives have adopted. The Diesel engine has no function in actually driving the train, and they are extremely efficient as a result.

[DoyleRotary]

@Joe11Blue

I agree that a hybrid electric platform is the future of transportation.

A very efficient, purpose built, steady state, range extending engine will likely be used in the hybrid platform to recharge a battery.

[Joe11Blue]

@DoyleRotary Why use a Battery? Half the cost of the current Hybrids is in the Batteries. There are cheaper far more efficient alternatives, such as Super Capacitors. There's no reason to store energy, that will suffer from seepage losses. It's inefficient to take energy from source of storage, fuel, to store it in another less efficient source of storage, batteries.

This is why I would never buy any of these Hybrids being offered, most of them are inefficient throw away cars.

[DoyleRotary]

@Joe11Blue

Battery technology has come a long way in the last 20 years and so has electronics. It will be interesting to see what the end result will be for quick regenerative storage.

This is definitely not my area of expertise.

The good news is a smaller more efficient engine will always be needed. I just hope DRE will be that engine.

We may know how close we are in the next few weeks.

[Joe11Blue]

@DoyleRotary They have advanced quite a bit, but the cost isn't going to get any cheaper for very much more advancement. Think exponential scaling curves for cost versus capacity.

I'm aware that not many are in this field, I was just throwing some ideas towards you guys on something you might want to look into. I've been wanting to build an example myself, but the problem is with finding a steady state engine that is efficient and light enough for such an application. cont...

[Joe11Blue]

@DoyleRotary cont... I think you guys might have solution from what you're showing with this design here. I'm certainly interesting in picking up one these engines when you guys get to actually putting one out. I want to see where I can go with it.

[n4120p]

From the dynamic stanpoint make a lot of sense but I don't see how is the cooling flow is gonna work you have all the heat right in the center of the unit and the valving port looks like the point of high stress if you lubricate that surface is gonna burn oil and have terrible emissions and if you don't it will seize and break ,, how are you going to collect the oil held by centrifugal force in the outer case and drive it to the rod pins and other rubbing surfaces ,,, lets see that ,,,???

[ADoyle88]

@n4120p

The stationary crankshaft and rotating cylinder block both have cooling passages.

Our seals are off the shelf seals from the Wankel rotary engines. These will be sliding across a chrome plated surface and will have the same oil injector that the Wankel rotary uses. The amount of oil that will be injected will be equal to or less than the amount in the Wankel (which passes US emissions).

There is a stationary oil pickup tube that scavenges the oil as the outer housing rotates.

[ADoyle88]

@n4120p

Oil will be pressure fed from the crankshaft through passages to the outer end of each rod. The oil will travel through the outer pins, up through the rod, into the piston wrist pins and then distribute into the rings of each piston.

We are currently making great progress on the next prototype and expect it to be ready for testing and a matter of weeks. Check out the comments on the Overview page of the Doyle Rotary website for the progress of the next prototype.

[Cushnaghan]

How do you get any drive from an enging with a stationary Crankshaft .Looks like a waste of money and time.How is it cooled.How is it lubricated .Do you have one that works.

[DoyleRotary]

@Cushnaghan

I have responded to your concerns on our website.

I appreciate your post and hope I have answered some of your questions.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer.

We feel that if we do not have any major hiccups we will have our next prototype ready for testing in about 3 weeks.

Thanks

Lonny Doyle

[tucense]

Buy a cnc and make the damn thing.. lol

[ADoyle88]

@tucense

We have two 5-axis CNC mills. My dad, the DRE inventor, has been very busy in the last year at his aircraft machine shop (Doyle's Fabrication) and is just now finding time to get back in to building the next prototype. If you check out the comments section of the Engine Overview on our website you can keep up with the progress he is making.

Also, if you check out some of our other videos you can see our machines in action.

Thanks for your comment.

[krazedgunner]

@ADoyle88 awesome!

[JaxxBat]

@ADoyle88 , If this is designed for a plane then i can see the point .. A better radial than the WW1 oldies...

[JaxxBat]

@tucense , It is not worth building, design is not good..See MYT vids

[270Ajay]

And they have patented the split cycle concept for fourstroke engine!

[ADoyle88]

@270Ajay

The concept of a split cycle engine is much older than either of our engines and we (Scuderi Group and Doyle Rotary) are not the only teams trying to reinvent it. Their patents and our patents cover the mechanics behind each of our versions of the split cycle engine. And looking at the mechanics, they are very different.

[270Ajay]

patent the design as soon as possible. there is another engine which kind of works in the same manner. /watch?v=WID-WH27J1c

[letsgetverydrunk]

sir, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS, WANT MOAR!!!!!!

[DougDaCosta]

Seems to be a similar design from torpedo engines.

[DoyleRotary]

@vincefrazier

The stationary crankshaft has cooling jackets surrounding the combustion chamber and ports. There are also cooling jackets that surround each of the rotating cylinders.

Coolant flows though the stationary crankshaft, out to the rotating cylinder block traveling around the rotating cylinders, back to the stationary crankshaft and then to a radiator.

We also have oil spraying under the pistons to help cool them and to lubricate the cylinders.

[vincefrazier]

How does it cool itself?

[nickinontario]

People who think something can't be done, or an unconventional idea simply won't work, should get out of the way of those that are doing it anyway! Good luck, I hope you are successful!

[DoyleRotary]

@madjimms

The production engine is supported on one end by the crank and on the other end by the transmission. The stationary crank is only exposed on one end and a flex plate and torque converter attaches to the other end. There is a housing that surrounds the engine and attaches from the stationary crank on one end and to the bell housing of the transmission on the other.

[madjimms]

How exactly does this attach to something to do work?

[EngineeringFun]

The same engine built in a much complicated way. What's wrong with the classical Otto that this fixes?

[ADoyle88]

@EngineeringFun

From 1:18 to 5:07 of the video the DRE is described and compared to the classical Otto cycle engine.

[Zxaber]

Only downside I can see is that front-wheel drive cars will have less traction.

[MicroOrginisum]

Very cool, but something like this has already been put into a car, im not saying this isn't already invented, im just saying something like it has already been put into cars. The thing about it is, the spinning motion of the whole engine will decrease longevity, plus if you crash, you have a face-full of 3,000 rpm engine. Sorry to say, you wont see the standard V internal combustion engine leave for an extremely long time.

[Bombardier131]

@MicroOrginisum

' the spinning motion of the whole engine will decrease longevity'

I am curious as to why you equate the spinning motion of this engine at a weight of 65lbs compared to a rotating mass of the standard V internal combustion engine would decrease the longevity?

The v engine is notoriously hard to balance effectively which results in less efficient energy use and accellerated wear. Could you please explain your comments?

[MicroOrginisum]

@Bombardier131 Reasons being is because back some time ago (60's or so) there was an engine created like this where the whole engine moved in a circle. They discontinued it because of reliability issues and crash test ratings.

[DoyleRotary]

@MicroOrginisum

In an attempt to give your post some credibility I searched the web quite extensively but I had no luck.

I did find that Ricardo has a flywheel that stores energy during braking and the reapplies this energy during acceleration to help make city driving more efficient.

The Ricardo system uses a high-speed carbon-fiber flywheel, operating within a hermetically sealed vacuum chamber at speeds up to 60,000 rpm.

I wonder if they are aware of the engine you have found.

[123dhru]

i see the full video and i conclude that what if the outer circle housing is changed to the the Elliptical Housing ....... so that it make more compression at narrow portion and expand more in wider portion of ellipse .

[ADoyle88]

@123dhru

The rods/pistons are connected directly to the outer housing. This means that if the outer housing was elliptical, the pistons connected to the wider portion would always stay further out than the pistons at the narrow points.

[123dhru]

@ADoyle88 no no no

what i wanted to say that your main piston assembly from center crankshaft to the end of all piston rods are same ,,as it is

but the end of connecting or piston rod follow a elliptical path

let there is only one engine assembly in your concept

and at the top of elliptical part which is narrow --

as your engine start

piston rod going from narrow to wide which cause piston to suck air/fuel mix.

and at narrow-bottom piston compressed

as it is cycle run 4 strokes

[123dhru]

@ADoyle88 what i wanted to say that your main piston assembly from center crankshaft to the end of all piston rods are same ,,as it is

but the end of connecting or piston rod follow a elliptical path

let there is only one engine assembly in your concept

and at the top of elliptical part which is narrow --

as your engine start

piston rod going from narrow to wide which cause piston to suck air/fuel mix.

and at narrow-bottom piston compressed

as it is cycle run 4 strokes

[mysock351W]

So basically its an inside-out gnome engine from WWI.

[Texmurphy51]

I saw no mention of how you will cool this central combustion chamber.

That excess heat has to go somewhere

[Asdayasman]

So why isn't this in cars 'n' planes 'n' things? Or am I too ignorant?

[ADoyle88]

@Asdayasman

This engine is still very early stage. My dad (Lonny Doyle) has been developing it off and on for 27 years now. I am 23 and have 3 younger brothers (you can see why he didn't have much time for the engine up until now).

My dad has been busy this year but plans to start working on the prototype again soon when work lightens up (he owns and operates an aircraft machine shop). This prototype will be the second to fire up and the first to be testable.

[Asdayasman]

@ADoyle88 Wish him my best. ♥

[seylerc]

ADoyle Rules!

[TAPriceCTR]

this looks promising, please compare the gyroscopic moments of your engine to the gyroscopic moments of an equally powerful engine (flywheel included) I am guessing that your engine gets the same power for a smaller size by operating at higher RPMs (permisible by the simpler more circular design)... that will drasticaly increase gyroscopic forces.

[ADoyle88]

@TAPriceCTR

The DRE is inherently balanced. This removes the necessity for counterweights and allows the DRE to come in with less spinning mass and an equivalent rotational inertia of an engine with the same displacement.

We expect to get as much power at the same RPM because our engine (while smaller and lighter) is still the same displacement.

(I say "we expect to get" because we haven't gathered data from a testbed DRE yet. See my reply to Asdayasman for more info about this)

[x0druid0x]

one question, cuz u have say 10 cylinders doing the work of 5 cylinders, this does increase a little of efficiency problem, and add somewhat of a rotating mass problem. That being said, I realize that you dont have a camshaft, vales, and other valve-train components. Does your engine produce a greater thermal efficiency and less parasitic loss over conventional engines?

How and Why please?

[oerllikon2]

Nevermind, I figured it out. I also understand it will be an upgrade over the conventional IC engine from a manufacturing and weight savings standpoint, but how does it compare in efficiency? I know the conventional IC engine is very inefficient compared to the tesla turbine for example. I could imagine better efficiency due to more fluid motion and less directional change

[oerllikon2]

Seems to be a good design, though Im not 100 percent sure how it generates rotational force

[bartdereu]

WAAAY too much weight in rotation. Not the moving parts are the problem.

[ADoyle88]

@bartdereu

At 4:42 you can see that the 2.3 liter DRE has 45 pounds of spinning mass. This is considerably less than a conventional 2.3 liter's 60+ pounds.

Unlike conventional engines, the DRE is inherently balanced (because of its radial layout) and does not require dead weight to be added to the engine as counterweights. Despite appearances in the animation, the DRE is a lot smaller and lighter (total mass and spinning mass) than conventional engines.

[bartdereu]

@ADoyle88 Thanks for the answer, but you know very well that you don't have to be a genius to see that it can't be true. The weight that rotates is at least twice as much as a normal engine, where only the piston rods and the pistons itself are movable parts.

[kennjohnsen]

@ADoyle88

Never seen any of these for sale.

[suju89]

What are the advantages as opposed to a Wankel Rotary engine?

[oerllikon2]

@suju89 Rotary engine has all of its power at the top end, and gets "meh" mileage due to the cylcles. Its constantly doing a cycle. 

[MurderMantha]

Can anyone explain to me what keeps the combusting fuel to force back into the air compression cylinders, thus stalling/damaging the engine?

[xb250power]

im just trying 2 emagine th inner bore housing, pistons and outer housing doing 8000rpm... the outer housing being far out from the center wll be traviling very fast. we hav enuf trouble keeping a flywheel together at high speed let alone all that piston and housing mass... but i aint no xpert

[aaabballo]

What about torque? Will there be enough?

[DocWolph]

The only thing I'm having trouble seeing here is how you get the mechanical power out to a transmission. I am assuming this could be used for an automobile, motorcycle, or boat. But what I'm seeing here looks like it would be really used for helicopters and propeller aircraft.

But this is among the more promising of alternative engine designs I have seen so far.

[ADoyle88]

@DocWolph

In the production versions of the engine the air would enter and the exhaust would exit through the same end of the stationary crankshaft. On the opposite side of the engine, a flywheel or flex plate would be attached to the outer housing to accommodate a clutch or torque converter. The engine would be supported on the port end of the crankshaft and a stationary housing would wrap around the engine to connect to the transmission's bell housing.

[CIAAGENT100]

good god imagine having to replace spark plugs

[DocWolph]

@CIAAGENT100 There is only one spark plug and it looks like a typical spark plug tool or a lengthened one would be sufficient to get it out. I imagine though a production version would have two plugs.

[ADoyle88]

@CIAAGENT100

DocWolph's reply to you was a good answer. The DRE has a single spark plug that is reachable by disconnecting the spark plug wire and using a socket to remove the plug. It would be easy and cheap for anyone to do (10 minute job).

Compare this to a recent quote for changing the spark plugs on a 2007 GMC Acadia: The shop quoted 3 hours and $250 to replace the six spark plugs. The three rear plugs are very difficult to get to. Keep in mind that the Acadia is still being sold today.

[CIAAGENT100]

@ADoyle88 Ahhhh I did not realize that. My apologies. I love the concept though

[andgate2000]

to many moving parts. No point in developing IC engines any more. Emissions and electric developments will kill it.

[ADoyle88]

@andgate2000

Removing the valvetrain has left the DRE with far less moving parts than conventional engines. Also, the moving parts in the DRE follow simple, circular paths. Compare this to the motion in conventional engines.

As for the future of IC engines, many people agree that electrics have come a long way but still have a long way to go. The IC engine may still have some life left especially when paired with electric motors in hybrid vehicles. Time will tell.

[TheIceychill2]

you were featured in popular mechanics magezine just so you know but it seems one piston on the "compressor' side is supplying compressed air up to 3 cylinders on the 'power' side, and under compressed charges make very little power with tons of power being leeched off to compress the charges making very little power to be able to drive a car and such meaning the design has potential but right now still needs work

[DoyleRotary]

You will not need to replace the spark exactly six times faster because a idle and part throttle the engine shuts down various cylinders to save fuel.

You will still need to replace the spark pug about every 20 thousand miles or so.

It is possible that longer life spark plugs are available but are too expensive when you need 4, 6, or 8 of them. We only need one really good one.

A 12 cyl. Doyle Rotary is equivalent to a 12 cyl. Otto cycle.

You can see the latest prototypes on our website.

[briquetaverne]

1st: doesn't the spark plug wear out 6 times faster? 2nd: where does higher MPG occur, from lighter weight? 3: would this be considered a 12 cylinder or a 6 cyinder?

4:is there a working model in existence or is this only an animated illustration to demonstrate a theory? 5: what is the normal life expectancy ( in thousands of miles) of this motor?

[DoyleRotary]

@burninmunkeys

The design you see in the video has a different style crank thank the production model will have. This style allows us to make changes more easily while prototyping. The production engine is supported on one end by the crank and on the other end by the transmission. The Flywheel or torque converter attaches to the end of the rotating drum. The total weight of the 2.3 Doyle is 60 lbs and of that 45 lbs rotates compared to 60 lbs rotating on an average 2.3 Otto.

[edomalley1]

Are you transferring gas DURING combustion? That's got to be some seriously high-speed transfer at peak temperatures and pressures. What are your heat losses for the combustion gasses moving at high speeds over the surface area during transfer (Kinda like squish x 1000!) and what are the blowdown losses? Must be pretty significant. Is your expansion stroke longer than your compression stroke? I cannot tell from the video but it does not look like it. If not, why do split cylce?

[ADoyle88]

The cylinder block has water jackets around each of the cylinders and the stationary crankshaft is also water cooled. You can see the water jackets in the cylinder block around the cylinders when the engine is in the cutaway views.

[burninmunkeys]

@ADoyle88 I'm sorry, no reciprocating mass? You may be correct, but it has a HUGE rotational mass. Why would it be a great to rotate your whole engine around the crank as apposed the conventional way. Smaller, yes. Lighter, maybe. More efficent, HELL NO! Lets take a chevrolet 350, weighs about 500 lbs, Lets rotate the cranks, oh, what's that, about 50 lbs of rotational mass... lets rotate the block now, what's that? about 400 lbs of rotational mass? lets make a more efficient engine

[burninmunkeys]

@ADoyle88 (cont) that when applied is actually LESS efficient because it drains so much of its own horsepower due to it's own rotational mass and has to stay up at higher rpms (which it can't sustain due to so much weight) just to have enough power to drag it's 2600 lb car up a 10 degree incline. Your engine is not going to make it, WAY too inefficient. Sorry, you should work up a new concept.

[ADoyle88]

@burninmunkeys

A quick correction first: the rotating mass of a 350 Chevy not only includes the crankshaft, but also the big end of the rods, a flywheel and a harmonic balancer. This brings the rotating mass to 80+ pounds.

In the above video, we listed the weight of the spinning mass of a 2.3 liter DRE vs a 2.3 liter conventional engine. The DRE has 15+ pounds less of spinning mass. When designing the Doyle Rotary, we were shooting to match the moment of inertia of a conventional 2.3 liter.

[ADoyle88]

@burninmonkeys

The moment of inertia of the rotating portion of the DRE is less than that of the conventional engine. Despite it seeming like there is a bunch of rotating mass, in actuality there is less because the DRE is inherently balanced. The large counterweights (which are just dead weight that the engine has to spin) that are on conventional crankshafts are not necessary in the DRE.

[burninmunkeys]

@ADoyle88 That's actually really cool. I'm glad you corrected me. A few more questions: How does it transfer the power to the rest of the car? Does the torque converter/clutch set right up against the engine block? Can you give me a break down of the weight comparisons as far as rotational mass, like your block+piston+connecting rods+connection to tranny vs the 4 cylinder crank+pistons+connecting rods+flywheel (+torque conv. for auto) and anything I missed just to see how they stack up.

[mriad123]

I saw your engine at SAE today, great idea, how do you cool it?

[btester1]

Wonderful concept!