Relgion of Evolution

[gregrutz]

Darwin was wrong about gradual and uniform. He did not know about the great mass extinctions of the past. His ideas are 150 years out of date.

Anyone who says

1.Evolution is by chance

2.there is no evidence for evolution

3. so it is accepted by faith and

4 is a religion

IS AN IDiot !

[cootsfortruth]

The challenge in this discussion is simple: If the Bible is true, evolution is false. If the Bible is not true, this discussion is a worthless use of "whatever" time is...and there is no hope in this world.

The Bible is the only reliable, verifiable history of the world from the creation to the first century. And Jesus Christ was a real person who died on a cross and was raised.

By the way...Why is time measured from the birth of Christ Jesus.

[gregrutz]

@cootsfortruth The TRUTH is evolution has been proven and the bible was proven wrong by Galileo hundreds of years ago.

Now what are you going to do?

[cootsfortruth]

The challenge in this discussion is simple: If the Bible is true, evolution is false.

If the Bible is not true, this discussion is a worthless use of whatever time is...and there is no hope in this world.

The Bible is the only reliable, verifiable history of the world from the creation to the first centure.

By the way...Why is time measured from the years of the birth of Christ Jesus.

[friendsfortruth]

gregrutz

Have you even considered the Biblical account of creation? We can discuss these matters without end, and never come to agreement.

My question is still the same: "Why do you want to believe that there is no God? The dinosaurs we discuss are so diverse and amazing anatomically, they are a witness to a remarkable creator

If you look at the incredible human brain that we use to reason these things out...it demands the existence of a creator.

God is good! Why do you resist him?

[TheSeventhSon]

I like how the video says that dinosaurs obviously aren't millions of years old (which is a claim based on some sort of radiometric dating), but then you mention that rocks having drawings of dinosaurs are dated to be 1,500 years old (of course, this is determined using radiometric dating). So, basically, you openly admit that you're biased immediately when the video starts. You sure do have an open mind!

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

Does anyone question whether the Incan civilizaton was 1500 years ago. Even if they were not humans drew detailed pictures of many dinosaurs. They drew what they saw. Radimetric dating is very unreliable because it assumes matter decays at the same rate, under the same circumstances.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Haha, way to completely change your initial claim. The video initially says that, "the drawings were dated at 1,500 years." So first, you take advantage of radiometric dating and THEN you turn around and say it's inaccurate. Also, you're assuming that they were drawing dinosaurs. It could have been art, it could have been a gross exaggeration. You're guilty of confirmation bias here. In other words, you're going to jump to conclusions based on what you want to believe.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

Have you looked at the Incan burial stones? There are a total of approximately 20,000 stones discovered. Only 6,000 stones are of dinosaurs? The other stones are of other things...accurately drawn.

I am the artist that did the video in question. If you think artists can immagine dinosaurs with such diversity and precision, without knowing the basic anatomy of these creatures, you are grossly mistaken.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

There is literally zero evidence that dinosaurs existed 2,000 years ago. You're suggesting that any creature that was drawn by an ancient civilization should be assumed to have existed. Oh, and I can't seem to find an unbiased source that validates your claims.

Lizards do exist. A drawing of a lizard could easily be mistaken for a dinosaur. As I said earlier, you are guilty of confirmation bias. You are going to believe whatever confirms your beliefs.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

There is an abundance of evidence that men and dinosaurs live together...if you are not afraid to research it. Google "dinsaurs and man".

The Bible describes a creature that reads like a dinosaur...if you are willing to be honest. (Job 40)

How did ancient artists even imagine animals like Spinosaurus, Tyranosaurus, tricerotops, Duckbill, Seismosourus, Stegasaurus, etc. There are no animals like these critters today. To believe your theory is at best questionable...at worst...

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

No, there really isn't any evidence that dinosaurs lived with man because the layers of rock that we find dinosaur fossils in are several millions of years old. Surely we would have found some human fossils in there? Did you not read what I wrote? Your claims are believed to be hoaxes.

Sorry, the bible doesn't count as "evidence".

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

I did read what you read. If you will take the time to do some research, you will find the evidence for the Incan culture is not strictly based on radiometric issues. Even if it were, the evidence is still true. Someone died and folk drew pictures of dinosaurs. This proves men and dinosaurs lived together.

The Bible is evidence. It the only continuous record of human existence from the beginning of time. There is no evidence to prove the Bible unreliable. (cont.)

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Someone made a drawing ergo whatever the drawing depicts must be true? That's literally what you're saying.

Uh, there are many different civilizations that predate the bible. In fact, Genesis appears to heavily borrow from the Babylonian creation account.

You're completely disregarding radiometric dating based on misunderstandings.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

You missed the point. If ancient artists drew dinosaurs from their imagination, how is it possible for their drawing to look like the creatures we call dinosaurs today?

You are wrong again. You have not read the Bible. There are no civilizations that predate the Bible.

Carbon dating (cont)

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

You're still assuming that these are real and were not created as hoaxes. I've asked you for unbiased sources that validate these things and you just continue bringing up your same argument over and over.

Uh, yes there are. I already mentioned the Babylonians. You're using the awesome argumentative technique of just screaming, "no!" and closing your eyes to what I say.

I find it hard to believe that stone was carbon dated...

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

If you want more info, google Incan Burial Stones.

Fossilization is an uncommon happening. Normally animal die, are eaten or left to die. They are left to the normal decay process.

Animals buried alive in the huge graveyards caused by the catostrophic Noah flood did not die naturally.

Most of the fossils are found in huge water-laid graveyards with all kinds of animals buried together...come in the process of being eaten.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Yeah, I did. Plenty of Christian sources that provide no scientific investigation. How convenient, right? Oh yeah, Christians hate to use science because it often proves Christians to be wrong.

I know it's uncommon. Specific conditions need to be met for fossilization.

The way you die doesn't affect a radioactive decay rate. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Are you just going to continue arguing out of ignorance?

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

You missed the point!

If ancient artists drew from their imagination, how is it possible their drawing look like the animals we know as dinosaurs today?

Remember, these rocks are burial stone. Would it make sense for artists to draw creatures would draw unrecognizable creatures for the royalty to see in the after life?

You are wrong again! There are no civilizations that predate the Bible.

(Dating, cont)

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Uh, they look like lizards. You could easily modify what a lizard looks like and make it look like a dinosaur. Once again, sources? And no, that doesn't mean you provide what your pastor says or what a Christian website says. If this is so compelling, there should be unbiased sources that verify these artifacts. Please provide.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

And since you're just going to play the childish game of denying everything I say, prove that the Bible marks the beginning of time.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

Here is a quote: "The laws of radioactive decay hypothesize that once a living organism is dead, it no longer interacts with anything in its environment which would affect the speed of its radioactive decay."

How would an animal drowned in a flood react to its invironment...before and after it died? It would surely be affected by being buried in the layer of mud and so many other animals.

Why is radiocarbon decay still called a "hypothesis"? Hmmmm!

(More on decay.)

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Nothing changes the speed of decay. Did you not read what I wrote? A Christian team attempted to find evidence for transient decay rates.

You do realize that if it was known that decay rates could be altered, that knowledge would be coveted.

I'm pretty sure if water and mud affected decay rates, scientists would have figured that out long ago. That's quite a simple experiment to do.

It's probably considered a hypothesis because of where you got that info.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Nothing changes the speed of decay. Did you not read what I wrote? A Christian team attempted to find evidence for transient decay rates.

You do realize that if it was known that decay rates could be altered, that knowledge would be coveted.

I'm pretty sure if water and mud affected decay rates, scientists would have figured that out long ago. That's quite a simple experiment to do.

It's probably considered a hypothesis because of where you got that info.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Also, bible's claims about men living for hundreds of years is a reason to believe that the bible is unreliable, at least in reference to science.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

You are obviously afraid to look at the evidence. It is clear! You might look at the Grand Canyon evidence. The layers are different on each side of the canyon. Some older layers are above newer layers. How can it be?

The reason for all this is found in the Bible. It is called the world-wide Noah flood.

Did you know the in spite of the tremedous advances in geological science the original Darwinian "geological time table" has not been changed...even when disproven?

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Noah's flood? The flood that claims to have carried every single species of animal on one single boat? That is physically impossible.

Seismic activity is quite capable of changing features in the earth. For example, mountains exist because of it. There's also erosion. I could go on and on.

Darwin has nothing to do with the geologic time table. You're only demonstrating here your own ignorance on the subject.

[friendsfortruth]

@TheSeventhSon

You are wrong again!

The ark was about the size of 1 1/2 football field with three stories...and there are very few large animals in our world. (Try counting them) A careful analysis has been done that shows the ark would hold all the animals and have plenty of space for all the food needed.

Seismic activities caused the changes in our world. It was huge pressures caused by a world-wide flood. This is why there are ocean-dwelling fossils found in mountain areas.

(cont.)

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Uh, you don't seem to understand how many different species of animals there are. Remember, you don't believe in evolution, so that can't have been responsible for creating the different species.

Uh, what? You're just rambling now. You still refuse to be wrong. Ocean dwelling fossils on mountains? How were they analyzed and tested? Remember, you don't accept radiometric dating (oh wait, you do when you think it supports your beliefs).

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Not to mention various aquatic life, plant life, insects, etc. You seriously think that two of every species of everything could fit on a boat? You're kidding yourself.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Your claims are unsubstantiated. You're going to have to actually provide evidence for these detailed drawings and prove that they are actually as old as you suggest. Remember, you've been talking about how inaccurate radiometric dating is, so that is off limits for you.

You still seem to ignore the fact that decay rates are constant. If they were to be accelerated to fit the young earth model, the earth would not be habitable. Perhaps your god is deceitful?

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Also, would you care to provide me the dating method used to place these stones at 1,500 years old? Perhaps you could give me the source from where you obtained that information.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

Furthermore, you still don't seem to understand your first mistake in relying on the radiometric dating of science and then completely turning around and claiming that radiometric dating is false. But of course! It's only accurate when it proofs your beliefs to be correct!

Also, you seem to never mention the decay rates again. I have a feeling you're just ignoring what I've had to say. It's a shame when science proves you wrong.

[TheSeventhSon]

@friendsfortruth

You should research the RATE Project which was conducted by Christian scientists hoping to find evidence of transient decay rates. They found absolutely no evidence to back these claims. Furthermore, if you accelerated the rates of decay, you would have an extreme amount of energy being released that would make life on earth nonexistent. So once again, you're just believing what you want to believe. Stop trying to give the illusion of an open mind.

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth But matter does decays at the same rate, under the same circumstances, you don't just change the laws of nature any time you like.

[friendsfortruth]

@gregrutz

The problem is simple. Look at the geological evidence. There are obviious, different circumstances...humidity, temperature, etc.

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth

Why do you call science a religion when it does not comment on God?

Why do you lie and say there is no evidence for evolution when there is enough to teach it in schoos as fact?

[friendsfortruth]

All religion is based on faith...some backed up with verifiable evidence and some just blind.

Since you have answered withi general statements like there is plenty of evidence...instead of specific, verifiable evidence, I must assume it is blind-faith religion.

And, since you have not given verifiable proof that what I have presented, I must assume you have no verifiable evidence...which means you have not evidence.

True history is not taught in the schools.

[gregrutz]

The fossils are layered like this,

In the bottom layer of rock are shell fossils,

above that is a layer with shells and fish fossils,

above that is a layer with shells, fish and amphibians fossils,

above that is a layer with shells, fish, amphibian and reptile fossils, above that is a layer with shells, fish, amphibian, reptile fossils and dinosaur fossils

There are no human fossils found in any of these layers.

Do you deny these facts?

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth You don't trust radiometric dating because of assumptions.

Then you say.......

I must assume you have no verifiable evidence.

I must assume it is blind-faith.

TOO MANY ASSUMPTIONS.

[gregrutz]

All the things you list were here on the early earth. Organic means contains Carbon. Amino Acids have been found in meteoites. Common stuff.

Why are we still classified as Great Apes?

[friendsfortruth]

The dictionary definition of organic is: compounds living in or derived from living organisms.

The question is still the same: Where did all the complex compounds and non-living thing here on earth...before life come from?

It is not good enough to just say they were here without any purpose of maker.

By the way, the only folk who classify us as Great Apes are the evolutionists.

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth Organic chemistry is the study of the Carbon atom which is used by living organisms.

Biologists classify us as Great Apes, mammals, tetrapods, vertebrates.

You think we might be mushrooms?

[gregrutz]

Fact, there was a mass extinction that happened 65 million years ago.

[friendsfortruth]

Fact: There is no proof there was a mass extinction 65 million years ago...except through the eronious dating of evolution. But, the evolutionary evidence is found in massive water-laid formations.

Fact: There was a mass extinction in the past. It is called the Noah flood.

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth There are 6 great mass extinctions in the fossil record. Oh I forgot, fossils are invisible to creationists. And no evidence of a global flood.

[friendsfortruth]

@gregrutz

Prove your extinction theory!!!!!

With very few volcanic exceptions, all the fossils are found in sedimentary (water-laid) formations...some of them thousands of feet thick, all mixed together. And you say there was no global flood.

Fossils are made under extreme conditions...many of them so quickly that some animals are in the process of eating other animals.

Fossils are not invisible...we just see them as they are.

[gregrutz]

one star, you are not doing too good.

[friendsfortruth]

@gregrutz

I do not care about stars, I care about the truth. Stars are for enternainment

[gregrutz]

Endogenous Retrovirus are lingering remnants of failed viral infection, which occurred in an ancestor's sex cell and got propagated in its offspring. The viral insertion site is completely random and finding one in the same location in two individuals indicates they each had that same ancestor. Humans and chimps have 98,000 ERV locations in common. Common ancestor?

[friendsfortruth]

Faith is based on evidence, but let's assume we have evidence the evolution is true.

It is "easy" to say there is evidence in the fossil record. My question is simple: where is the specific evidence...and how can we measure 3 time periods and 5 mass extinctions?

How can we verify all this without faith that it is all true.

Show me the specific evidence or we must consider evolution just another religion.

[gregrutz]

The fossils are layered like this,

In the bottom layer of rock are shell fossils,

above that is a layer with shells and fish fossils,

above that is a layer with shells, fish and amphibians fossils,

above that is a layer with shells, fish, amphibian and reptile fossils, above that is a layer with shells, fish, amphibian, reptile fossils and dinosaur fossils

See a pattern?

There are no human fossils found in any of these layers.

[friendsfortruth]

Hmmmm!

Is there any place in the world where the layers are in this exact order?

In the Grand Canyon Mississippian rock is directly over Mauv formation. Where is the Silurian, Ordovician and most of the Devonian layers (about 170 million years)? On the north trai there is Mississippian above Mauv and then another layer of Mississippian below Mauv...plus another 50 million years missing.

Something is wrong with this picture!

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND GEOLOGY, DO YOU.

[friendsfortruth]

The question is do Geologist understand geology. The information is from what geologist have said.

Geology should be telling us what the study of the earth tells us instead of an opionion of what geology says.

[friendsfortruth]

Okay! YOu have finally revealed your real nature and education. It is obvious you are clinging to an indefensable position because you do not want to accept the truth the God created the world and everything in it to show his eternal power and divine nature.

There is no excuse for you now. You have been exposed to truth and refuse to accept it...even when every argument you have made has been refuted.

God bless you!

You are going to need it!

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth

You don't know what science is, all you know is faith, religion and brainwashing.

You have no idea what 'truth' is.

[friendsfortruth]

I have a couple of questions:

Some of your comments indicate you don't no much about science and objective thinkings.

What is your education?

You have no concept of what faith and religion, so do you have anything to believe in?

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth

I have a BS in Chemistry, and studied Biology, Geology and Physics.

Do I need to have something to 'believe' in, I believe in God.

[friendsfortruth]

Do you believe in a generic god, or the God of the Bible?

[friendsfortruth]

You say there are no human fossils found in these layers.

Would human artifact do?

What about an iron pot, a steel cube a bell-shaped metal container?

Coal is supposedly 300 million years old.

All it takes is one example, but there are many...including human footprints!

[gregrutz]

@friendsfortruth SO YOU AGREE, NO HUMAN FOSSILS HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND WITH DINOSAUR FOSSILS.

[gregrutz]

Faith is what you need if you don't have evidence, like for a religion, not science, which is based on facts.

We find evidence in the fossil record, of dinosaurs evolving for 160 million years, through 3 major time periods. 65 million years ago, they disappeared from the fossil record in the last of 5 mass extinctions,

that also killed a majority of the life on earth.

[friendsfortruth]

What is your specifc evidence that the theory of evolution is true. It might be just the like the global-warming issue...the so-called evidence is made up.

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"after dinosaur drawing have been found on burial stones."

Now no one tell him about the stones. It is more fun for a person to think we are laughing with him when we are really laughing at him.

[friendsfortruth]

Laughing is a great activity. But, laughing at folk that are 1000 years old, when they cannot defend themselves except through verifiable history is the action of prejudice.

[Doomcharger]

@ friendsfortruth

only 31 seconds in and I can tell you that this video is wrong about everything.

Faith is believing in something without evidence and not making a prediction.

And from what I've been hearing about Octopi, I think they might get to our level intelligence given enough time (that conclusion is based on the evidence i've collected and then by making a prediction. not through faith).

[friendsfortruth]

Good try!

You have made my point...by making a conclusion on evidence. But your evidence does not support your theory...unless it is blind faith based on another unverifiable theory called evolution that takes more faith to believe than believing in God.

[Doomcharger]

@friendsfortruth

and stop using data that is no longer relevent.