MoonFaker: Exhibit D: Critique #22A: What the Soviets Said...

[GUARDIANtrooper]

Russia obviously knew that radiation makes it impossible to venture to the moon, because of the simple fact, they have no flag there and we supposedly had six? They had a jump on us, we couldn't even get a rocket off the ground and then all of a sudden, we make it to the moon 6 times? Even now working together with Russia and other countries wheres the cost can be split, still no flag on the moon and still lingering in the safety net of our life support system around about 300 miles, HOAX...

[awe130]

Dr van Allen was "convinced" in 1968 philweb, you disregard ten years of study by Dr James van Allen. The whisper philweb do you hear the whisper.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 Now that you mention it, I do hear something. No. It was just the dog farting again.

Where's your buddy geisha? And don't Stalker and Pete usually come to your rescue when you get in over your head? Have you been abandoned?

Question: Are you just a sock puppet for one of these other conspiracists? It seems like they use you to run the most ridiculous claims up the flag pole to see how badly they get shot at.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

No need to ridicule philweb, no need to bully philweb. Ten years of study by Dr James van Allen, and he was still "convinced". I just showed you and your followers that Dr james van Allen was still convinced after ten years that the astronauts would be "fried". This is stated by the Apollo 8 crew, you can ridicule and bully as much as you want. I have proven my point beyond doubt thanks to the Apolo 8 crew.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 #1 Beste bekrompen Awe, de video over de Apollo 8 astronauten die je gebruikt heeft niets te maken met de tienjarige studie door Dr. James Van Allen. Hij was bezorgd omdat Borman moest overgeven. Voor een moment was hij overtuigd dat de astronauten zouden worden 'gebakken' toen ze door of vlak langs zijn stralingsgordels zouden gaan.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Well you also can insult people in dutch, wel done. But it shows that you agree with me and that is the most important point. As shown in you response video you agree that Dr van Allen was "convinced" that the astronauts would be fried. There is no insult that can take that fact away philweb.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 I'd love to continue this exchange, but I've got better things to get on with. After forty or fifty tries of showing you why you're wrong, I finally give up. (Or is that gave up?) I think anybody can look at your comments, look at your video, look at what you left out, and tell what you're made of. We're done here awe.

[philwebb59]

@awe130 #2 Opnieuw heb je ons laten zien dat je liever woorden verdraait om je belachelijke theorie te ondersteunen, dan dat je de waarheid zoekt. Je videos zijn lachwekkend. Jij bent lachwekkend. Maar ik veronderstel dat dit je bedoeling was.

[GoneToPlaid]

@awe130 Do you have any idea of the orders of magnitude of difference in radiation intensity of a strong solar flare hitting the earth-moon system compared to the normal amount of solar wind radiation? Dr. van Allen was correct that a really strong solar flare directed towards the earth and moon might fry the astronauts if they were outside of the VABs. Excluding strong solar flares, it is relatively easy to shield astronauts from solar wind radiation.

[awe130]

@GoneToPlaid,

Do you have any authority or did you study the VAB? If so I will be happy to debate you after you have shown me some credentials. Space radiation or the VAB credentials will do, sorry for the strait forward question. After luke how is just not aware of how radiation in space behaves, I don't want to spend to much time on this kind of guys. But if you do have this credentials I would be happy to go into some details with you.

Peace to you

[GoneToPlaid]

@awe130 You are the one who claims that space radiation would be deadly to the astronauts. Are you simply parroting what you have heard from hoax believers, or do you have any credentials whatsoever?

[Rob260259]

By the way Phil, that synchronizing from 5:08 is awesome...

[philwebb59]

@Rob260259 That Jarrah White. He just gives us too much good material.

[regjoe30]

well executed sir! i've been waiting for the master stroke and have not been disappointed. now if someone would address the nabroro my annoyances would be squelched

[awe130]

I just wonder if you gone correct your video or not.

Peace to you

[lukequixotesanjose]

@awe130

You've gone from being the local friendly neighbourhood moon hoax hippy to being an utter prick. Now, do as requested and provide some calculations that show radiation is bad. Maybe you can post those calculations in a video. Do you accept that challenge... yes or no?

[philwebb59]

@awe130 I just wonder if you gone correct your Apollo 8 video or not.

[Rob260259]

Thanks Phil.

[Astrobrant2]

Good video. I covered this topic in JW's questions to me (and other proppagannis), and from what I can remember, I reached the same conclusions that you did. Your video is so much more detailed and documented, though. Very thorough and informative.

Jarrah uses the same techniques to attack Apollo that creationists use to attack evolution. That makes sense. When a person's belief is wrong, he/she will always have to resort to deliberate misrepresentations in order to promote their views.

[philwebb59]

@Astrobrant2 Oops! I didn't remember this being one of Jarrah's 32 questions. I'll have to go back and watch yours again. I did pull the Van Allen letter from your "White Noise: Jarrah's Big Moon Hoaxer Shootout, Pt. 1" (mentioned in the summary and credits). It saved me from having to wade through Jarrah's "Radioactive Anomaly" series to find it.

When people are just plain wrong, it would be better if they just remained silent.

[Astrobrant2]

@philwebb59 Please, I didn't mean to imply that you took anything from my video. I was trying to figure out where I had heard about this before and it hit me that I did a bit on it in my shootout. We have touched on similar subjects before (and Luke, too), and each of us has his own style. Your videos are always so incredibly well-documented and scholarly. More than mine ever are.

I was just glad that we reached the same conclusions -- independently. I must have done something right!

[Astrobrant2]

@philwebb59 Please, I didn't mean to imply that you took anything from my video. I was trying to figure out where I had heard about this before and it hit me that I did a bit on it in my shootout. We have touched on similar subjects before (and Luke, too), and each of us has his own style. Your videos are always so incredibly well-documented and scholarly. More than mine ever are.

I was just glad that we reached the same conclusions -- independently. I must have done something right!

[awe130]

Also I noticed that you at 4:07 this statement is also used by NASA top scientist and resigned after Apollo 11 for that matter. I assume you are aware of that fact if not I am more than happy to send you more information.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 At 4:07? You mean that the soviets said that unmanned probes could do everything a manned mission could do more cheaply and quickly? And did they do that? Have you compared the mass of lunar samples the Soviets returned compared to the U.S.? The rest of your comment I did not understand, but then, I rarely understand you awe.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

4:07 Dr Schoenmaker resign NASA 1969 for that exact reason.

Did you also not understand my Apollo 8 comment or do you agree with me?

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 Do you mean Dr. Eugene Shoemaker? He was a geologist and leader of NASA's Field Geology Team. He didn't have anything to do with radiation. When he left NASA in 1969, he chastised NASA "for its lack of interest in doing real science." He wanted additional Apollo missions -- manned missions to the moon, awe -- more scientific payloads. Try Googling "Gene Schoemaker LPIB83" (yes, that's misspelled almost as badly as your attempt, but it gets you to the right place.) and see what it says.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Sorry but Dr Schoemaker resigned for the reason exact given on 4:07 in your video. Again you dismiss information it makes your videos very doubtful. Again proof of extremely bad science and bad research. I am not sure Apollo put a man on the moon and your arguments are at least dubious, there you do not look at information that not supports your theory.

Peace to you

[tiaxanderson]

@awe130 @ 4:07 it says that the Soviets had given up on any manned flights to the moon and would use probes which could do the same work cheaper.

Dr. Schoemaker, according to Phil's source (the Lunar and Planetary Institute or LPI), resigned because he wanted the follow up missions of Apollo 11 to have science as their focus, not just as a by-product.

I'm sorry, but those are two completely different claims. Please post the source of your claim.

[awe130]

@tiaxanderson,

You are right philweb is not aware of the fact that Schoemaker resigned for the reason given at 4:07, I will release my source this week in a new video Question NASA Dr Schoemaker.

[mercatormac]

@awe130 For those of us too busy to watch that video, could you possibly list your source now?

[Astrobrant2]

@mercatormac Don't hold your breath. He wouldn't want anyone to look up the information and make a decision on their own. He has to present it with his own special spin.

[tiaxanderson]

@awe130 Erhm, I didn't mention Phil wasn't aware of that. All I said what his source said and tell you who the source is (Phil, unlike most conspiracy theorists was kind enough to supply the url).

Also, why not simply state the source rather then make me wait (possibly look and find) for your video when the question was only 'what is your source?' If I asked you to explain something difficult, ok, but this is just me wanting to know your source...

[awe130]

@tiaxanderson,

The link to the original video is in the text box plus the time frame, you didn't watch my text box, you just parroting around.

Peace to you

[tiaxanderson]

@awe130 Or you are just not listening to me. I said I wondered why you had to post an entire video or direct me to one, just to point me to your source.

Obviously, I hadn't seen your video. In fact, I was saying I didn't feel like looking for it, just to find the source you are using in this discussion without telling us what it is. Post the direct link to your source or at the very least, link to your video.

[tiaxanderson]

@awe130 I'm assuming this removed comment is the one I found in my inbox..

I don't want to search for your weird video to find a source you are using in this discussion. As you mentioned it, post the url of your source.

"f you don't watch my video with link as I recommended you there is no hoop for you."

I haven't watched your video as it shouldn't be to hard to just give me your source so I can verify your claim, or isn't your source stating what you claim it does?

Source. Source. Source!

[Rob260259]

@awe130

"De reactie is verwijderd"

LOL

[Rob260259]

@awe130

Again, what is your source?



[mercatormac]

@awe130 How long are we going to have to wait for your promised magnum opus "Question NASA Dr Shoemaker/Schoemaker"?

[awe130]

@mercatormac,

Sorry I had no time but is released soon, it will rock mercatormac.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 If any should know what "bad science" looks like it's you awe. As if anyone could make sense of your senseless questions. I don't know what you're talking about from the time code. Doesn't seem like there's anything there to resign over, but believe what you want to. tiaxanderson has your number awe. Watch out! I wouldn't want you to hurt your brain trying to keep up with him.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

After the insults back to the real subject, do you say Dr Schoemaker didn't resign for the reason you have give at 4:07. Please check the facts before you claim your theory.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 I'm still not sure what we haven't covered here. Are you referring to the line "the ability of unmanned probes to [supposedly do everything people could do] more cheaply and quickly?" Is that what you're talking about?

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

That is indeed the reason why Dr Schoemaker quite NASA in 1969. So there is support for that russian claim.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 And, as you've been repeatedly asked by tiaxanderson, what is your source. My source says he quit because NASA just wanted to burn up a bunch of rockets to put men on the moon. They were not interested in doing the scientific stuff. He quit because he felt NASA was putting men on the moon for the wrong reasons.

Assuming you are right, and all other sources about Schoemaker/Shoemaker are wrong, then you're saying he quit because the U.S. chose manned instead of unmanned moon missions.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

The link to the original video is in the text box plus the time frame, is all your research as good as this philweb. Please check the facts before you accuse people, it is very bad for your credibility that is already on the line.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 My research is better than this awe. I still don't understand what your question is. I transcribed the excerpt that you stole from the original video. But, I see you've changed from the astronauts showing fear to the "medical" doctors showing fear. I'm afraid that you misinterpreted something again awe. Your command of the English language is fearfully inadequate to interpret meaning in what the astronauts said.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Don't worry about my English philweb I worked years for a English call centre in the UK. Now that point is cleared up lets go back to the subject. It is that the Russian claims in your video are backed up by NASA. So it seems that the Russians and NASA came to the same conclusion. If two leading space agencies at that time came to same conclusion it is not to be disregard in a honest research, or you didn't know about it, that is bad research than.

Peace to you

[Rob260259]

@awe130

"you did google it yourself rob, or did you get help?"

- I got help Awe. Me no notting.

"I worked years for a English call centre"

- That explains it all.

Phone for you.

[philwebb59]

@awe130 Dear Lord! An English call center in the UK? That must have been hilarious.

So, you think the Russians claimed that when Borman got sick while on board Apollo 8 that meant that he got fried when they passed through Van Allen's ionosphere? Is that what you're saying? Strange. He's what? 82 and still alive. Shabby research awe. Very shabby research. Are you going to take down your video now and go hide like you did with your Kenitra and Sidi Yahya video fiasco?

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Dr Schoemaker quite for the reason you have given in your video 4:07, again a indication that your research is poor and that your credibility is on the line.

Peace to you

[Rob260259]

@awe130

"your credibility is on the line"

Says the guy who made that crappy video about Kenitra. By the way, his name is Dr. Gene Shoemaker, not Schoemaker. (bekende naam overigens).

Don't tell nonsense AwE, you're doing a poor job.

Info on Gene Shoemaker:

h t t p : // astrogeology . usgs . gov/About/People/GeneShoemaker­/

and

w w w . lpi . usra . edu/publications/newsletters/l­pib/lpib83/shoemaker83 . html

[Astrobrant2]

@awe130 I think pretty much everybody who worked on Apollo has resigned, retired, or died, haven't they?

[awe130]

I just want to point out that Apollo 8 crew was alarmed by scientist and Dr van Allen that they worried travel the belts and radiation. Are you disagree with many scientists and Dr van Allen philweb. The proof I give you is backed up by Apollo 8 crew. Question NASA Apollo 8. But to start can we agree philweb that there where great concerns with in NASA before Apollo 8?

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 Off subject awe, as usual. This video specifically addresses Jarrah's claim that solar radiation stopped the Soviet manned lunar program. He didn't discuss the VAB in his Exhibit D, so I didn't go into it either. Science evolves awe. Why don't you look up what Dr Van Allen has said since 1958?

I'd love to watch your silly movie about the Apollo 8 astronauts, but I have better things to do. Whatever they said, which you have subsequently misinterpreted, it didn't stop them from going.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Phil here you go again not looking at the evidence to just dismiss it as misinterpreted. This is above bad science philweb, Apollo 8 crew clearly states the danger of the van Allen belts. The radiation trapped in the van Allen belts is also solar radiation philweb. If so I made a valid argument by mention the van Allen belts. Again I am in full support of NASA, backed up by Apollo 8 and you philweb.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 #1 Did the Apollo 8 astronauts say they stayed on the ground and faked their mission because they wet their pants at the mere thought of going through the VABs? Umm? No, they didn't. There were naysayers in the early 1960s. There were people who could not believe the U.S. could put men on the moon. But they went, awe. And regardless of what Dr. James Alfred Van Allen said in 1958, by the time it came for Apollo, there was more information available and the risks were better understood.

[philwebb59]

@awe130 "The radiation trapped in the van Allen belts is also solar radiation..." Awe? You didn't just say that did you?

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Yep I said it I know you would react on it.

Peace to you

[philwebb59]

@awe130 React? I sometimes question your use of English. Again, I have no idea what you are talking about. Anyway, I'm going to ignore you now. Please go away.

[awe130]

@philwebb59,

Are you also ignore the Apollo 8 statement and the reason why Dr Schoemaker resigned NASA philweb?

Peace to you

[Rob260259]

@awe130

"The radiation trapped in the van Allen belts is also solar radiation"

De opmerking van de maand. Mozeskriebel... staat dit in Edepedia of zo? Of op de website van Aweleaks?

[TremorHellborn]

@awe130 Hello there. My name is Trevor and I am going back to university as a psychology major next September. Do you mind if I ask you what triggered your doubt in the validity of the Apollo program, or if you have always believed the program to be a hoax?

[awe130]

@TremorHellborn

There are many questions NASA is not able or willing to answer. As always I state AwE130 doubt that Apollo put a man on the moon. The moment you start to look into the moon landing, you will notice that there are two camp fighting for the truth. It could be fun if you do your major on the Apollo subject, NASA would be interested in your study.

Peace to you

[Astrobrant2]

@awe130 No, awe, the two camps are those who KNOW the historical facts and those who do not. Some of those in the latter group think they are here to set everybody else straight purely on the force of their own conceit and ignorance. It gives people like you a rush to pretend you know more than all the experts in the world and that YOU, with your appalling LACK of knowledge in this subject, have arrived to bring us all the truth.

You are WRONG. We went to the moon.

[Astrobrant2]

@awe130 No, awe, the two camps are those who KNOW the historical facts and those who do not. Some of those in the latter group think they are here to set everybody else straight purely on the force of their own conceit and ignorance. It gives people like you a rush to pretend you know more than all the experts in the world and that YOU, with your appalling LACK of knowledge in this subject, have arrived to bring us all the truth.

You are WRONG. We went to the moon.

[philwebb59]

@awe130 #2 Sorry, but I cannot accept your video response. Your Apollo 8 video is off subject with respect to the Soviets' radiation concerns. Just like your Kenitra and Sidi Yahya video was off subject with respect to Parkes and your Dutch moon rock video was off subject with respect to Isotopes & Meteorites. Submit a video that's actually on subject and I might accept it. Go ahead. Try debunking one of my videos outright. But, understand that you will be obligated to return the favor.

[GoneToPlaid]

Nice to see the facts laid bare. Good video.

[TremorHellborn]

Nice, Phil. Very nice.

Does anybody have any theories as to what is taking Jarrah so long to complete the vid on moon rocks he promised us?

[lukequixotesanjose]

@TremorHellborn

Because it takes a long time to construct all those lies and dig up enough bullshit.

[occhamite]

Nice work. It's been way too long since you posted. I suppose it's too much to hope that jw would take a lesson from this as to what research really is. Anyway, do keep 'em coming!

[philwebb59]

@occhamite Yeah. The real world interferes enough, and then I lost interest and dragged my feet for a month. I've lost steam since the beginning. Maybe that's why he posts such huge loads of crap. Nobody in their right minds would attack a 10 or 20 part series. I'll try little projects for a while.

[lotanerve]

Yeah...but if you pull that "Van Allan belt" rug out from under them...they won't have a leg to stand on. It's definetly their last straw. Sad thing though is that dissinformation will continue to come from that Luna Tic...Jarrah.