Richard Gage says some videos appear to be manipulated

[rubberritchie]

Gage is truly pathetic. The 911 truth movement has failed to present any evidence whatsoever of an 'inside job'. He should go back to his wife and try and get his old job back.

[FGFMinfo]

Decent!

[loccysmif]

So, is this you on JREF, explaining how your only intention is "asking a question"?

"I'm in two minds about whether I should go there on Friday. I only live about ten minutes away but I don't really feel like putting any money in his pocket. I could just print up some leaflets with debunking website addresses and a few hints about the lies they will hear and what questions they should ask and then just hand them out outside the building."

-- angrysoba @ JREF (Source: xrl. us/bgqqmx)

[angrysoba]

Yep, that's me. However did I evade your investigoogle powers by posting with the same moniker there as here?

[loccysmif]

The fact that you use the same alias on JREF as you do here already implies that you aren't hiding or evading. What's your point? The fact that I could easily find it doesn't mitigate anything.

[angrysoba]

What is there to mitigate? You make it sound like I have done something really terrible, like heckling or something, but we both know I have done nothing of the sort.

[loccysmif]

The fact that your JREF nick is identical to your Youtube nick, nor the fact that Google easily reveals this..... is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that on the JREF forum you show your true colors and your real intentions: to disrupt this presentation.

Don't hide behind this ridiculous facade of faux-modesty. You strike a different tone at JREF, where you preach to the choir, with the same ad hominem bullshit as the rest of the JREF gang.

[loccysmif]

There are no videos close enough to WTC 7 that also have a running sound track from the beginning of the collapse. Please show me one clip of WTC 7 collapsing from the beginning not far away that has sound from the very beginning.

Other videos are up close and do have sound, but then we hardly hear the building ITSELF "collapsing", while we should be hearing a loud rumble from the collapse alone. You're not fooling anyone with this deceptive heckling, and certainly not seasoned researchers.

[angrysoba]

There was no heckling. It was part of the Q&A session.

I'm not trying to "fool" anyone. Where are the videos with explosions and where are those which have been manipulated that Gage talks about?

Most controlled demolition videos I have seen haven't been from particularly close and yet have very audible explosions on them.

Why can't I hear them on the WTC7 collapse videos and why doesn't the ground shake?

[loccysmif]

It wouldn't heckling if you weren't asking questions you already know the answer to, yet ask anyway for the sole purpose of disruption. It wouldn't be heckling if you were even remotely interested in the answers. You aren't. You are disrupting, and you know it, and you will subsequently boast about your disruption on JREF. Who the hell do you think you are fooling? Don't you think I've already read your comments on JREF? Truthers heckle people all the time, and own up to it. You don't.

[angrysoba]

I am asking a question relevant to the talk and Gage has had plenty of opportunities to create a convincing pat answer to this question. If he wants to keep giving talks on his "theory" about 9/11 then why shouldn't people be allowed to ask questions when they are allowed to? I did not yell out during the presentation, I didn't call him a liar or a shill or a paid servant of such-and-such, I exercised my right to speak. Something Truthers are always shrieking about but want to deny others.

[loccysmif]

You're not asking a question, indeed, you don't even end your sentence with a question mark. You're soap boxing, with the express intention of disrupting the event and reporting back to JREF. You wouldn't care if Gage was right, or telling the truth, all you care about is doing a little foot soldier work for the 9/11 lie movement. (I know how it works, so let's drop the facade, shall we)

[angrysoba]

If you go to my blog you can see I had already met Gage a few days previously and asked him that question. All his cohorts were there too and no one seemed to mind me asking him the question. It's not as if I was being clandestine about the whole thing. I even asked Yumi Kikuchi if I could video things here. There are no "editorial" comments here either. It is simply my question and his answer. What's the problem with that?

[loccysmif]

It comes as no surprise to me that Richard and Yumi would afford you this courtesy, even though it is quite clear you have no interest in the answers to any of your questions, you are merely soap boxing.

[angrysoba]

Okay, well. Given Mr Gage has said that there are videos with sounds of explosions, where are they? Strangely you have already undermined him by saying that they don't exist when Gage says that they do.

Also, perhaps you can show me the ones that have been manipulated.

[loccysmif]

I am quite happy to disagree with Richard (sincerely). You see, the 9/11 truth movement isn't monolithic nor is it a religious cult as you suggest on your blog. Richard has made several other errors in his capacity as spokesperson for AE911Truth. In the same vein, there aspects of the NIST and FEMA reports I agree with and aspects I don't agree with.

It does not suffice to defeat Gage, you are up against me in this conversation. I am not Gage. Direct your efforts at me, not him.

[loccysmif]

"Also, perhaps you can show me the ones that have been manipulated."

You said there were no videos with explosive sounds on them. I am saying there are no videos with proper sound on them AND starting before instead of after onset AT ALL.

Don't turn this around. It's YOUR job to show me a video with proper sound close enough to the building, and I will compare that to my trump card video fragment which contains near authentic/unequalized sound, but cut in half-way like most.

[loccysmif]

The mutual differences between the audio tracks of the various publicly available WTC 7 videos from various distances reveal that:

(A) Some microphone characteristics for professional equipment are such that they significantly dampen sounds either in the low end of the frequency spectrum or far removed from the mic.

(B) There is a profound difference between one audio recording and another, to the point where one has to wonder whether or not manipulation took place.

[loccysmif]

Lastly, I have no reason whatsoever to believe that McPadden, Bartmer and the anonymous EMT were lying. I've heard a firefighter here on Youtube say he heard no explosions when WTC 7 fell, yet when I confront him with the EMT interview, he takes off and doesn't return.

[angrysoba]

So, you are saying that there were explosions. "The firefighter here on Youtube" was lying.

[JPPolachek]

@loccysmif Mike the EMT....lol.....go ahead and ask Dylan Avery about that hoax.........it is DEFINATELY A HOAX BECAUSE HE WAS TO YOUNG TO BE AN EMT ON 9/11. HE WAS ONLY 15 YEARS OLD.....HE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN AN EMT AT 15, IT IS ILLEGAL....so that is a totally bogus claim, and Dylan Avery knows it....so why are you talking about this hoax. The only reason the MIKE THE EMT HOAX has any relevance to the history of the Truth movment is that is was the catalyste for Mcpadden to claim his hoax

[angrysoba]

No, the burden of proof is on Richard Gage to show us what he says exists. Your trolling is an attempt to sidetrack this discussion.

I am correct in saying there were no sounds of explosions on the collapse videos unless you can show me one.

[loccysmif]

No, your dismissal of three witnesses is disingenuous, as is your attempt to claim "no explosions" based on incomplete (starts after onset, or too far away) video material. There are hardly any clips of WTC 7 with sound AT ALL.

Show me one. I will respond.

[angrysoba]

Go to my blog and listen to the videos posted there.

[JPPolachek]

@loccysmif Have you seen the video comparision of Mcpaddens change in his Countdown story. It is on tape...of him telling the story two seperate times.....and it shows how he MADE UP HEARING THE COUNTDOWN 3,,,2,,,,1,,,,. THAT IS A LIE......and if you watch his earlier interviews it is soooo funny....and his claim that the red cross guy said "RUN FOR YOUR LIFE, JUST RUN FOR YOUR LIFE...that is a lie also......he originally said...the guy gave us a "a look that i took to mean run for your life"

[loccysmif]

Furthermore, I need again remind you that you are now debating ME, not Richard.

[loccysmif]

You will further note that MY argument was that there are no videos with decent sound AND within a close enough range (mimicking the location of those three witnesses) AND starting before onset instead of after. Carefully note the exact logical phrasing of my argument. It defines three conditions tied together with an AND-relation.

There is a fallacy of hasty generalization in your argument based on the assumption that there is even ONE video that meets these criteria. There isn't.

[loccysmif]

You attempt to falsify the controlled demolition hypothesis by claiming no (sounds of) explosions recorded during WTC 7's destruction. Yet, the available audio/video material is woefully inadequate, for reasons outlined in my (pretty damn reasonable) three criteria argument in my previous comment.

Therefore, you are making a claim. Show me such a clip with no explosions and I will respond with an objection.

Any further attempts to turn this around amount to a "burden of proof fallacy".

[JPPolachek]

@loccysmif I am waiting for your respons to the MIKE THE EMT and KEVIN MCPADDEN LESSON I GAVE.and there are alot of videos of 7, and none have explosions..but what about the WTC..I dont hear any explosions their either..and WAIT A SECOND..they are claiming that silent thermite was used on all the buildings..so why is Richard Gage now arguing that you can hear explosions in some videos..that doesnt make any sense...he has said many times the reason you dont hear any is becuase thermite was used.

[Thetan1974]

@JPPolachek

Avery turned 18 shortly after 9/11. So he was 18 in 2002 when he started researching for his movie.

It makes no sense - others to the defenders of today's Flat Earth Story - that 7 came down due to fire. What truly went on inside all 3 buildings is of course top secret.

It makes perfectly sense that the thermitical squib-explosions were more or less silent while the under ground conventional explosives did produce some noise:

watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg

[angrysoba]

Well that's what I thought. So you came here and blew Richard Gage out of the water.

[angrysoba]

Well, perhaps I should remind you that you can continue this discussion at my blog.

You're being very tiresome.

[JPPolachek]

@loccysmif so have you seen both of Mcpaddens video taped stories.......you really need to see them both...to apreciate how he changed his story and added the HEARING THE COUNTDOWN.and the RED CROSS GUY SAYING RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.those are all changes .he did not say that in his original interview..so he just lost all his crediblity by making that stuff up when he already told his story...HOW STUPID.DID HE THINK HE WOULD GET AWAY WITH IT..thats because of the MIKE THE EMT HOAX.see LOL TWOOFERS

[loccysmif]

Now, let me just pick apart your heckles.

(1) CD's don't always requires explosives -> Balzac Vitry, and no, there is no video both close enough and with proper sound from the beginning, reasons already explained in the comment your replied to. Go ahead and prove me wrong.

(2) Yet, witnesses report explosions (Bartmer, McPadden and anon. EMT)

(3) It doesn't follow from comparison to commercial demolition that all characteristics must match those of controlled demolition.

[loccysmif]

(4) There were also no seismic spikes recorded for the '93 bombing. You are intentionally oversimplifying the seismic matter and thereby, you turn it into a straw man argument.

[loccysmif]

Some "amateurs" have uploaded somewhat nearby WTC 7 videos with the sound removed. When asked why, you hear ridiculous prevarications such as:  "There is no sound because I didn't want the recordings of my wife and friends voices on the internet." (VEOH)

[angrysoba]

Were there audible explosions or not? That's one question I want answered. You can go to my blog and post any comments you like there. I have added a link to Richard Gage's presentation there so anyone can watch it.

[angrysoba]

4) Did I even mention that or are you just pulling these answers out of your Truther bag of stock answers?

[angrysoba]

1) Yes, I realize that, and yet Gage is saying there were sounds of explosives, hence he used McPadden's testimony etc...

2) See above

3) No, but that is Gage's argument.

You can't have it all three ways otherwise your argument is incoherent.