Money as Debt II Promises Unleashed (3 of 8)

[EpicYarnEM]

You folks need to read Irwin Schiff's comic book How an Economy Grows and Why it Crashes. These fairy tales about money are no better than the ones told by the Fed itself. The only way you'll ever get to the bottom of this is by learning basic economics (not state-funded Keynesian, Chicago, Supply Side econ, but real Austrian economics).

[randy95023]

The LOVE of money affects the Poor a lot more than the Rich. I've seen poor people steal from their grandmother and I've seen rich people give a million dollars to add a wing to a hospital. Greed, Envy, Pride, Theft affect the poor every bit as much as the rich and seemingly even more so...

Lack of money causes more "evil" than having it in abundance. I've been on both sides of that fence!

Peace, Randy

[thompson8305]

I HAVE THREE KIDS AND NO MONEY WHY CANT I HAVE NO KIDS AND THREE MONEY

[hdzsound]

I pay everything in hard gold,

screw the banks

=)

[gryphonauto]

"It was the money expended on World War 2 that ended the great depression"

I would have expected the creators of this video to understand that the above statement is not true.

mises.org > daily > 3426

[OlympiaHolib]

make $50 a day free ebook /watch?v=S8Vs5wQs_2w

[AyanaKnyze]

make $8+ a day in less then a month NO SKILLS /watch?v=BMPhsRN19Ms

[FutureKnut]

@compelled2283 Thank you for uploading this

[PsychoticusRex]

And this is where they get it wrong, the money expended on WW2 DELAYED the recovery by several years; it was the 92% taxation on upper income bracket (about 3 million dollars/year) that was the TRUE source of the prosperity! (FDR Wanted 100% tax but got twiddled down by republicans of the day to merely 92%.) Prosperity happens when you apply a sanity test to monetary growth.

[zbret]

The video states people don't try to borrow because they don't feel confident. That is true - why expand your business if you think people won't buy, but it is also the banks thoughts that if the economy is shrinking and thus harder to pay back loans, then they must be more careful in who they lend to. So, they lend less (and less, and less) and the result is a continually worsening shrinking supply. I think the video should mention the banks part of this too.

[KA3AXCTAH2030]

The war ended the Great Depression??? Waaaaaiiit a minute... that's not true!

[101simar]

@KA3AXCTAH2030 that is true because the war caused the government to issue more securities since they needed money to fund the war. the federal reserve started to print money which loosened the money supply and ended the depression. simple

[KA3AXCTAH2030]

@101simar No, this belief that war, massive spending and money creation can bring prosperity is completely misleading and atrocious. The depression ended when taxes were cut by one-third, spending was cut by two-thirds at the end of the war, and the markets have finally had a chance to correct after the artificial boom of the late 20's. Such misunderstanding of the depression is going to put us into another depression, as the gov't and the Fed are doing everything to prevent the correction today

[mousehead2000]

i'm wondering if the answer is siply to stop consuming. we don't need 99% of what we consume anyway. if we only bought we needed we wouldn't be in this mess.

[gomunkul]

@mousehead2000 I don't take bank loans to buy a toy, as well a you I don't support consumerism - I get a loan to buy a HOUSE !

shelter is one of the necessities of LIFE.

Is there a sensible way to get a house without a bank loan?

[mousehead2000]

@gomunkul Well, obviously the home being the 1% we do need. but having said that - is it normal for houses to be so expensive? why is that? if we all stopped buying houses at such ridiculous prices surely they would come down in price. we should be able to buy our homes at reasonable prices surely. or is that asking too much?

[Orical001]

lol

[LadyNemesis2007]

Remember when Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers? Its going to happen again but thsi time on a massive scale unseen by anything ever in exsistance.

[Kraneloran]

The way to fix this isn't the venus project, it's just screw the system, and allow goverments to do what goverments should do. Creating as much money, es they need, to build stuff or give the people something as change. And all without interest. This actually was the case, after Andrew Jackson closed the World Bank as lincoln also prevented (as long as he lived...) the reopening of the World Bank. The Interest-free money was the original "greenback". The Bank obviously regained its power...

[MarioSavioTZM]

@Kraneloran this is such a shallow way to look at the situation. If this was already tried and the banks have once again emerged with this power what does that tell you? There is no need for money in a society not neurotically conditioned to accept it's necessity. It is quite literally paper, worthless, and creates a perfect environment for manipulation, exploitation and the expansion of social constructs which would create the same things we see now, especially in scarcity, real or created.

[Kraneloran]

@MarioSavioTZM To "what this tells to me":

Lincoln wasn't shot by a "crazy individual". He would have prevented the bank to rise again. When a Goerge W. Bush isn't shot in 4 years, even when alot of people know about his lies, Lincoln wouldn't either. Except someone wants him to be dead so he can gain power...

Despite that, I'm with you. Even if you don't see it. I want interestless money, as representing what the world REALLY has. If this can be achieved without paper, I'd go with this, too.

[Kraneloran]

@Kraneloran The matter with the Venus Project is a communistic philosophy that gets attention simply because it uses the apsolutely right analised facts about our system to promote what SEEMS to be their kind of "New world order". This I don't want. Borders are GOOD. A Nation with it's Culture should be protected. Even though the media still lies, Borders don't mean Prevention to Global Activities. It just means Protection from a easier to control World for the FED.

[MarioSavioTZM]

@Kraneloran Krane, it's difficult to respond in such short space but; 1: I know he wasn't shot by a crazed individual, but if we rely on individuals to correct systemic flaws we are in dangerous territory already. I advocate TVP as a direction. The future may not look anything like TVP, but the principles are spot on.People are too hung up on specifics. Q1: Why are borders good? Q2: how can you protect them from people eventually (and emergently) realizing they are false, social constructs?

[Kraneloran]

@MarioSavioTZM I'm again with you. It doesn't matter what Intentions the people who try enlighten people have. After all an enlightened society would notice if someone tries to lie on them for another form of power. I just want to make clear, that TVP isn't THE way and that we have to look for other ways, too.

Q1: As long as different countrys are lead by different people its harder to form a "World Goverment". Q2: Again I think Enlightenment is the Answer..

(As you said, very short space...)

[MarioSavioTZM]

@Kraneloran RE: Q1: wouldn't it be better if everything was decentralized and people just worked things out? 'Governments' on entrusting control and power of big groups of people to small groups of people invariably seems to lead to social dysfunction. I agree TVP is not the be all and end all, but I haven't seen anything so holistic. We will have to face facts that we live on one planet, the borders are human constructs. Asteroids, climate change, we do need a global unity for these.

[Kraneloran]

@MarioSavioTZM The Problem with a decentralized is, that this would mean (as long as we have this problem with the FED) that we would have ONE Goverment and of course ONE Bank (The Bank of the World as they seem to want to call it)

And if we belive, that this one goverment will still be controlled by the bank as it is now then it would be less of a problem to get the goverments to do what the bank wants as there is only one goverment. You see? This is why I think borders are good for !now!

[Kraneloran]

@MarioSavioTZM just one more thing. Climate Change? Are you talking about CO2? The amout of CO2 in our air is somewhat about 0,038 Vol% (380ppm).

Co2 alone has almost no impact on climate. And the Influence of mankind on this 0,038 Vol% is 19% right now. WOW...

Please, talk to a meteorologist. He will tell you exactly the same...

dont understand me wrong. We HAVE enviromental issues, but they are caused by big industries shipping garbage to (for example) Africa. And they are controlled by money

[MarioSavioTZM]

@Kraneloran No Krane I'm also a climate 'sceptic' BUT... the climate WILL change whether it's in 10 years, 100, or 10 000. We will face Ice ages and warm periods undoubtedly. We should prepare for that ASAP if we wish to survive as a species. Underground cities, seedbanks - even arks. All of that is possible if we stop wasting resources on killing each other.Also, about global unity, it will come very, very slowly. I don't think there's need to be so fearful, personally.I agree to some extent.

[Kraneloran]

@MarioSavioTZM Right. We should stop to waste our ressources. But our moneysystem works only on wasting. Not Everlasting growth is the answer. The answer is, as of course mentioned in the "venus project", stability. Not wasting more than needed, reffering on as much recyclable things (energie, food,...) as possible. The first step is to make a stable moneysystem (without interest and dept to banks) . We can't prepare as long as bankers rule the world, as the most don't care about the rest.

[Xasew]

That's some pretty bad history you have there. The Fed didn't do nothing and the war certainly didn't the end the Depression.

[Mirithonomy]

@apopyalips Yes, but whoever tries to stop this will wind up being the loser for even if they succeed they would first crash the global market. No one in the now profits from the reversal of this system therefor People (especially those on top) will fight for things to stay just as they are.

[pedrohqb]

let me say that I'm really frightned. I'm a Brazilian, and our government is a whore in the hands of the banks.

[nameutube123]

The crux of the problem seems to be the elimination of usury laws around 3 decades ago, unleasing a mafia like indebtedness upon the population while empowering the banks to take over the government and literally enslave the population and destroy the world economy for the benefit of a few.

[rawrletsgo]

guys this is where all their power come from. loaning money they don't have. we basically made it legal for them to print as much money as they want and we call it a system. we need a change. we need a revolution

[theboiljulia]

i dont get it at 2:40. if the borrower pays back the $10,000 then the bank removes that money from circulation then new money would have gone into the money supply, but same amount in older money wouldve gone out if borrower paid back loan so that doesnt explain why the loan dilutes the money supply. is it because the bankers keep the interest and spends some of it into circulation, is that why the system causes inflation? someone please tell me.

[niggaflies]

@theboiljulia, Because as the borrower pays back the loan the principal part is exstinguished but the interest part is still kept in the money supply diluting the rest of the money.

[theboiljulia]

@niggaflies cheers for that info, i really apreciate it, it was really bugging me :). i thought it might be the interest diluting the money supply. the video should explain that a bit better instead of just saying "basically dilutes the money supply".

[ThorlikeSmash]

@niggaflies

Okay, the principal is extinguished. Where does it go? How is the interest kept in the money supply? How does that dilute the rest of the money. Isn't there less money considering the principal is now "extinguished?" God damn public school sure did shit to educate us!

[catch22af]

listen up fellas this is what happened in the last decade. 

[OgeronimonominoregO]

You can deflate the banking system by withdrawing as

much cash as possible. That's the only way I know that

actual deflation (decrease in money available to fractional

reserve system) takes place.

You must distinguish between falling prices and decrease

in money available to the system when you say "deflation".

Historically, the money supply goes up, up, up, constantly.

Cash outside the system lowers their reserves

and curbs new lending. If the system were allowed to fail,

that's deflation.

[OgeronimonominoregO]

I don't buy the claim that money is extinguished. Specific

loan account balances are, but the money created lives on

in other accounts. Banks recycle loans.

What happens in a crash is that *credit* dries up once it

becomes clear that enough people cannot pay back enough

loans with the existing money available to them.

The money exists but the system can't balance the

obligations. Remember, this is all leverage. I owe you; you

owe me; I owe the bank; the bank owes me. It's all

bound up.

[TheOljarhead]

We're doing good until this 3rd video and the claim that the money spent during WWII is what ended the great depression. Sure that's what is taught in the progressive school system but it's false. IN fact, based on the first series and the beginning of this one it can only increase the problem -- what really ended the great depression was the 'Had Enough' campaign run by Republicans which resulted in their winning, taking control and cutting government spending and taxes.

[jimmyrtle]

(7:54) Foundation for the Advancement of Monetary Education? LOL!

Some guy in the dark in his Mom's basement.

[hamstercommando42069]

@jimmyrtle Surely I've never heard of it. But would you disregard the entire video because of this?

[jimmyrtle]

@hamstercommando42069

No, I would disregard it because of all the errors.

[UTubePressOnline]

HOW ABOUT THIS WE GO TO THE BANK YES WE AND THE BANK CREATE NEW MONEY WE GET £10.000.Say AND THE BANK GETS £10.000 SAY .ALL AT THE SAME TIME ON THE SAME DAY..NO ONE OWES..NO ONE..WE ALL GOT OUR MONEY..AS WE CREATED IT.SO THE old WAYS OF BANKING OUT OF Dated.ALL BANKS AM going uder.UK GOVERNMENTS AT TO BUY ALL THERES AND EU AND USA ....AM LIKE GREASE BANKRUPT NEARLY..ITS GOING TO BE A BIG WW3 THATS Y THERE WARS SOMETIMES TO START NEW WORLD ORDERS AND THE ANWER HERE WITH US

[shiftstart]

Deflation argument falls short because the money supply isn't actually deflating. This is demonstrating deflation based on repayment of debt to the banks and subsequent removal of money from the circulation. If all is equal and actual deflation took place prior to (debt being reduced) every major bank would go belly up. Thus revealing the scam the banking system has on people.

[Valdris1987]

they can kick you out of your house? Even if you fully paid it?

[kitsilog]

What if i have money in bank number 1, and then in withdrawed money  on bank number 2's Atm machine?

[illuminat10n]

@kitsilog It changes very little. While the individual bank will lose your money. You depositing it at another bank will just keep the system erect.

[delyparker777]

This is starting to remind me of "Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement". In this documentary, it explains how the banksters or The International Banksters financed BOTH sides of WWI and WWII and it also backs up the documentary " the Money Masters". You can really begin to connect the dots when you watch these documentaries.

[LucVNO]

just because you don't agree with someones point of view doesn't mean they are lying. The money spent during the war did bring us out of depression, not the war itself. Unfortunately, the source of the depression, the money spent and the war itself all came from the same place: the cold black heart of the money machine.

[candygir7]

Lies, lies and more lies. OK this guy here has no shame. The war did not recover the USA from the depression. Corruption & theft caused the depression, and wars only were for trying to take over power by one country over another country. Wars are another scheme of criminals & bankers to steal from other rich people and countries. USA is a nation run by incompetent criminals who mismanage our country, our money, our resources & everything. When you allow retards to rule over you, you will suffer

[candygir7]

@gotmyfingerrscrowsed Well they are the retards & we are the stupids who follow the retards. If you notice, even retards & insane are instinctively following what is good for themselves (their own selfish needs) They are not smart as we think they are. Most of the rich get rich by stealing & cheating others. And they hire the smart people to do the work for them. Most smart people are not rich. Most selfish & ruthless are rich. Often they acheive their goals by murdering children & good people.

[candygir7]

@gotmyfingerrscrowsed You know the dollar coin of the Indian head; what it really about? The government of the colonies offered money for each Indian head brought by whites. Then when it became too much to have some dead person's head brought; they asked only for their hair. The whites started killing other whites and bringing their hair for money. (how nasty & low is that killing your own race for money) Then the government requested to cut some of the forehead skin to verify it is of Indians.

[Rumpl4skn]

Govt is not needed, privatize everything? That's a rectal cranial inversion if there ever was one. REAL, HONEST govt is crucial - letting corporates run amok is how we got to where we are, it started in the 80's with Reagan's deregulation.

Capitalism is the best system - monopoly capitalism is the worst. In the extreme -that towards which we are headed - it's pure fascism, and that's what's coming right down the pipeline. Sorry, this guy's vids are dead on.

[SomethingSea1]

@Rumpl4skn "REAL, HONEST govt is crucial - letting corporates run amok"

Sir, corporations do not exist without government. A corporation is a government entity, by definition.

[Rumpl4skn]

@SomethingSea1 Hardly. Government entities are actually corporations, operating for a profit. Check Dun and Bradstreet, look up your local police force, they're in there, right alongside Exxon-Mobil.

[SomethingSea1]

@Rumpl4skn

"Hardly. Government entities are actually corporations, operating for a profit."

And this helps the case for gov't how?

[Rumpl4skn]

@SomethingSea1 I still have no idea what you're arguing - that the line between corporate and governmental is blurred, that we have Fascism? Yes, then I agree. I was responding to CandyGirl, who seems oblivious to the fact that recessions and depressions are manufactured entities, not natural elements of the "business cycle."

[SomethingSea1]

@Rumpl4skn

Ah. Then we have no issue.

[candygir7]

The stock market collapse of 1929 was directly as a result of corruption of bankers. But they were not punished for their crimes.

[unytcommsys]

LOL, they haven't been punish for it now. The old saying is "the players have changed, but the game is still the same..." Insuring your own business survival:

1) Make laws that protect you win or lose.

2) Have a fall guy.

3) Control the situation.

[mike23984]

and they haven't been this time either...how do bankers get away with it?

[candygir7]

We need to end banks and government. Government is not needed. Privatize everything. And I means everything including the judicial and police and fbi etc. I am not kidding, the government is very corrupt & they are cheating us and conrolled by the bankers who are also cheating us. They are looting our land, our resources & our health & rights. They deserve the death penalty. But we the people are like cattle and can't stand up for ourselves. Start being tigers. MayaBell. com.

[LucVNO]

You realize that those same corps. you want to hand everything over to are the ones corrupting the very government you want to get rid of. Talk about out of the pan and into the fire.

[candygir7]

around 3:00 there is a flaw in this video: depreciation of money, makes the money less valuable; thus people have to work more & provide more goods to get the same about of money. or work & goods the same but they will get less money, thus they have less money to pay their loans & the bankers win every time. Also the properties & goods prices go up & thus the bankers get more money for them. It is a win win for the bankers.

[SomethingSea1]

@candygir7

No, that isn't a flaw. That's a lack of inclusion. And since MaD is very gov't-minded about solutions, of course it won't think about those things you brought up. Thus, the flaw isn't at 3:00, but is part of the philosophy of MaD itself.

[candygir7]

@SomethingSea1 it is a scheme by those who control governments (the rich) to keep the people enslaved and indebted.

[SomethingSea1]

@candygir7 We carry our own chains.

"Taxation is a necessary evil."

[gogolando]

But the person borowing the money after buy or consuming the car, now has to go out into existance and put back service or material in exchange for money that he cannot spend and must return to the bank to have distroyed. The intrest the Fed makes covers the risk because when money is not retruned by default, the bank has to dertroy its reserve.

[unintentionalatheist]

venus project!!!! only way to fix this mess

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist Beware of the Venus Project - it's a scam.

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond in what way is the venus project a scam?

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist It's utopian, unworkable nonsense.

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond i dont think you understand what the proposals of the venus project are if you think its utopian... unworkable? have you studied all aspects of ecology? sociology? the proposal of a resourced based global economy? no? just an opinion then.. anyone in the world can have an opinion about a subject they no nothing about.

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist I understand the proposals fine - that's why I'm against them.

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond you said "It's utopian"... utopia will never exist, that's a statement held by the project leader and repeated over and over again. if you consider the ideals of the venus project to be utopian you are ignorant of the very words spoken by the organisers of the project. thus you do not understand the proposals/ and using words like unworkable are empty distinctions. if you don't think the venus project is workable then please provide n example.

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist The Venus Project is unworkable, utopian nonsense. Saying somethins isen't so dosn't mean it isen't so.

If I want something to eat your utopia where, do I get it?

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond Do you mean if you wanted something to eat within a venus project type society, where would you get it?... I guess you would get t from your fridge? All necessary foods would be farmed and produced by machines, you would have the option to order your food over a type of internet database, and it would also be delivered to your house by machines, or you could go to the place where food is made and pick it up yourself. Or you could make your own food.

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist It's a special ocasion, I want to eat out.

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond well that's assuming that people still have the mentality we have today, where by things are celebrated by going out to restaurant, if there are people who desire restaurants then they will exist. they will have they same concept as restaurants today, except for human interaction between you deciding what you want and it arriving t your table, no waiters, no chefs. they actually have fully automated kitchens in japan, and machine waitering services in russia, and

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond P2... touch screen menus in some parts of the world. if you desire human interaction between your meal i.e a waiter, then its up to you to convince people that it would be a worth their time to do that for you... and you couldn't bribe them with money... you should also note that these "unworkable" solutions are already coming into being, machines replacing human jobs is on the increase while money is also rising.. we are headed for a fall and the future that the venus project

[unintentionalatheist]

@RicoRichmond P3 proposes is the most probable out come, i am simply one of those who wants to embrace the change and enjoy the benefits. people against the venus project seem to presume what it is after reading a few short paragraphs about it, then make up their mind about why it will not work, these people are mostly fearful of change and are trying to cling on to a failing system. if you don't want to see people starving to death then advocate the VP and care a little less about restaurants

[RicoRichmond]

@unintentionalatheist What an arrogant person you are. If I amen't in favour of recycled Collectivism I'm scared of change and don't care about people starving to death.

For the record I'v watched Addendum all the way through three times, and spent several hours (cumalitivly). I'v researched it - it's unworkably drivel.

[SomethingSea1]

@unintentionalatheist The Venus Project would only be one way out of many. And, as it stands, it's just as workable in the long term as having a government -- utopian.

[alix69]

@unintentionalatheist hell's yeah

[Mephistopheles77777]

@unintentionalatheist you're supporting a new system of control, kudos.

[rev0107]

@unintentionalatheist

resource based economy!!

[PsychoticusRex]

@unintentionalatheist The venus project is an idiotic scam made up by idiots who don't know how redistribution of effort can work so insist on everybody doing everything all the time.

[unintentionalatheist]

@PsychoticusRex insist's on everybody doing everything.. actually no it insists that about 5% of people do everything

[camreeno360]

Actually Roosevelt became president in 1933, but was elected in 1932.

[DRDNIBOY]

ITS ALL NUMBERS ... ALL NUMBERS! AND PEOPLE BECOME HOMELESS AND LOOSE THIER LIVES OVER NUMBERS. This is why money is the root of all evil.

[SomethingSea1]

@DRDNIBOY No, money is not the root of all "evil". The root of all "evil" is presumptual chaos, which is an evolutionary trait of just believing what someone says. Money happens to fit with this quite well, but it is merely a tool that is very useful to such a purpose.

[ahspal]

@DRDNIBOY Correction ... the biblical text is: "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10, NKJV

Both Job and Abraham were very wealthy men in their time ... and far from being considered evil.

[mousehead2000]

@DRDNIBOY the 'love' of money is the root of all evil...bankers are not monsters. they are weak humans who were seduced by money...it takes an exceptional being not to be seduced so...

[wybo2]

8:25

They forgot the biggest inpact on the economic crash of 1929.

The fact that a guy like HITLER got elected in a democratic way (because of the frustration of the german socaity, witch normaly is a very sober and well thought-trough country)

We all now the consequenses of that guy getting the power.

[dave997]

how many tubes of ben-gay could you buy with a trillion dollars of bank credit?

[concujak]

Why is there a black and white checkered floor in the kitchen at 2:38  ?

[Otevra13]

I very much appreciate the effort though I still think its too complicated a description for most people. There's got to be a way to simplify these explanations even more.

[Mendelevium146]

so 1929 was due to deflation?

[darkyspread]

bingo

[fubecabr]

1929 was a result of a credit bubble (inflation) with a subsequent bursting of said bubble (deflation).

Price deflation would be the natural order of things. As worker productivity and technology improves, things are made cheaper. Look at computers. Roughly, the processing ability of computers has doubled every 24 months over the last 30 years.

In 1978 the Intel 8086 had 29,000 transistors. Today the Intel Core i7 has 730,000,000 and costs a fraction of the price.

[ytbuck2]

Legally Counterfeit Money! Woe ( to hell) with that system. God has a system to make us a Lender & not the Borrower. For the borrower is a slave to the lender. I curse this system back to abyss from which it came. And I call upon the Global manifestation of the kingdom government of God to arise in each and every heart, mind, souls, & conscienceness of it's citizens. In the name of Yeshua - Mahamishia. AMEN!

[00dfm00]

This video isn't making a Marxist / capitalist statement, like many apparently feel. The math and logic in this video is fine.

When this video gets into the depression summary, what it fails to mention is HOW it all came about to begin with - easy credit. This is just what we all experienced with the housing bubble/bust. Also, the New Deal just drew out the pain for years longer than it needed to be. Price controls just meant empty shelves and unemployment.

[cookdave]

Agreed. In a modern capitalist economy we need to find a balance between upholding private property rights and ensuring that those rights don't abuse the rights of others. Paying rent to the community as a whole for taking away land for private consumption is a way of ensuring nobody is taking more than their just deserts.

[kmarinas86]

"Paying rent to the community as a whole for taking away land for private consumption" = Property Tax

"is a way of ensuring nobody is taking more than their just deserts" = False

[cookdave]

Just saying something is false doesn't make it so. You need to back up your argument, otherwise you don't have one.

[kmarinas86]

That "paying rent to the community as a whole for taking away land for private consumption" is NOT "a way of ensuring THAT NOBODY is taking more than their 'just deserts"" is self-evident.

Your argument is the one that needs to be backed up. The skeptic is not the one who needs to prove the claims of a believer.

[cookdave]

Its not self evident, you've just reverted back to saying that something is false because you say it is.

In a debate you need to back up your assertions. I've made a claim and you've stated its false because it is. Thats not an answer.

[kmarinas86]

If I pay rent to the community as a whole for taking away land for private consumption, does that ensure that I or anyone else is not taking more than "THEIR JUST DESERTS"??? In my case, the answer is NO. What if the charge for rent is $100/month? Is that enough is needed to cover the rights others have lost? Maybe not! In some places the crime is so high, maybe $400/month is needed, but high crime areas are often low income areas. Rent to the community does not produce justice.

[cookdave]

Spot on, so you simply tailor the land tax to suit the location it happens to be taxing. A more valuable area such as New York would incur more tax than areas out in the middle of nowhere. land tax differs in the U.S to what I'm advocating, there's no such thing in the U.K.

[christo930]

They didn't make it big, we did. It is inevitable that government depts get taken over by the rich and powerful and that is the main reason we need small government. Congress even allows lobbyists to write bills for the RIAA, MPAA and the industry group for software devs. Despite a supreme court ruling, we can't copy anything that is copy protected because of the DMCA.. We need to take back our congress from professional politicians and kick out the lobbyists.

[christo930]

The price of housing would be going through the floor if not for the government trying to prop up housing prices by printing money, giving 3% down mortgages with tax incentives that effectively create 0% down. The free market isn't the problem, it's government, especially when large corporations capture the government like we have right now with Wall St effectively owning the government.

[christo930]

They failed in the beginning and then private property rights saved them.

Exactly, follow the money! How do you create a system where the large corporations can't take over the regulators and politicians? You can't.

What land are the homeless sitting on? Do you mean squatters? Why should anyone get a free house for breaking in to someone else's private property and using it without the owners permission?

[christo930]

No, it was a failure of communism.

Who do you think allows the big corporations to control us? Big government. When people with good intentions start a new bureaucracy in the system, it is eventually taken over by politicians who sell out. Do you think it's by accident that too big to fail involves a bunch of people from Goldman?

[LuqmanNaq]

@christo930 The collusion of gov and big business is called corporatism. That's the dominant system of the 'free' world. Check out a you tube video called 'monopolization of capital'.

[delyparker777]

@christo930, I think somebody else's comment said it best: Goldman Sacked America! That says it all! Don't know if you've listened to Bob Chapman, Gerald Celente or Max Keiser's youtube channels, but they are amazing to listen to! All 3 of them ROCK! 

[christo930]

Yeah, the first three years of the pilgrims and they starved, but the fourth year during a bad drought, they were given the rights to their own food and low and behold there was a bountiful harvest. Almost every problem America has today is caused directly or indirectly by big government, including the recent financial crisis.

[owenander]

I'm really glad the video addressed the deflation issue, which I had some questions about.

[TheLivingDeadOne]

6:42 says it all,. and there is where we are going,. We bought it all,. now we can use what we bought, and pass on the new stuff. We just need food and toilet paper,.

[herbs814]

government bailouts: when people are faced with a shortage of money and expected to do with less, government-favored cronies are not expected to control costs or eat losses; instead they are bailed out by the government and the bankers stealing from the people.

[christo930]

This example of "inflation" doesn't hold water because their was a real world asset tied to the new money. It's only when new money is created greater than new production that price inflation will occur. Adding money to the money supply is a good thing when there is new production.

[Sniper2008009]

Errr, borrowing money from the bank to buy a car or a plasma screen tv doesn't create value for your money..sad fact is most loans are made for consumption, not production!

[christo930]

If you buy a new car or plasma tv, it had to be produced in order for you to buy it. Creating new money to buy a used car, on the other hand, increases the money supply without new production.

Mind you, I am not defending the system overall, just this one part of it. It seems to me that without new money creation while increasing productivity means more products chasing fewer dollars and that would mean higher money value.

[Sniper2008009]

LOL! No it doesn't, borrowing money to purchase already existing cars DOES NOT add value to the money supply. Again what added value to the money supply was the money loaned out to the producers of these commodities (the plasma TV, cars I'm talking about in my example) and not the consumer loan.

[Sniper2008009]

To cite my point further, firm A borrows $5million to mass produce cars. That $5million now has corresponding value. Consumer A borrows $2.5million to buy half of those cars and Consumer B borrows $2.5million to buy the other half of those cars produced..

[Sniper2008009]

While loaning out 5 million dollars to Firm A did produce value for money in society, the additional money created for the consumer sadly did not. The banks just injected additional liquidity into the money supply without corresponding value attached to it. Clearly, this is not viable in the long-run as the purchasing power of each individual is diminished and the economy will lag as a whole when fewer people purchase fewer goods..

[christo930]

I suggest you read my post over again. FYC..

Creating new money to buy a used car, on the other hand, increases the money supply without new production

If you create NEW products without new money, you will have more products chasing the same # of dollars. New money needs to be created with new production.

In any event, the system we have is probably coming to a close, at least in America.

[Sniper2008009]

No you still do not get it, I read your comment over and TBH they are still wrong. Loaning out money to companies/firms/individuals will add value to that money being created as it has accompanied goods and services being produced and circulated along side with it. However, loaning out money to buy a NEW commodity (in our example, a car) OFF the supply/distribution chain won't have accompanied value and thus distorting money's value.

[Sniper2008009]

Loaning out to people who CONSUME instead to those WHO produce does nothing good IRREGARDLESS on whether or not they buy new, old or used commodities.

[christo930]

This makes the assumption that the capitol that created the car was borrowed in the first place and it doesn't take into account that the car has a higher value than it's building costs. I do get your over all gist and I wouldn't want to see the full value of the car being created twice.

[cookdave]

The value from the car derives from the price that people are willing to pay for, not the input costs. The capital may be borrowed at a price which is determined in the market place. (Strictly speaking capital means tools; the means of production, not money which is just a way of counting favours owed to one another)

[gergenheimer]

The author of these films initially does a good job explaining the inherent corruption of our banking and monetary systems, but falls flat when it comes to the Depression - he makes the time-honored mistake of thinking that the collapse in the money supply was the cause of the Great Depression. The collapse of money and credit was the necessary, but painful result of the artificial expansion and easy credit pushed by central banking policy in the 1920's. The same is true of our current problems.

[davetheaussie1]

Wrong. The Venus project is a trojan horse. It is a sci-fi version of the communist manifesto i.e a society without private property. Peter Joseph admitted such a society would need to 're-educate' (through forced labour, gulags) those who didn't believe in it. This is exactly what the international banksters want.

You can't abolish money & property without either having a collapse in civilization, or having a totalitarian elite administering it.

[Shizzamo]

Have you read the FAQ section of the Venus Project's site?

The Venus Project is not a form of governement, and you do need some type of administration for the transition, but it's still a very sustainable idea.

[firestonw]

Please i assure you the venus project or the zeitgeist movement is not what the international bankers want.

There is no link in communism and the venus project. Communism requires all goverment control and uses money. The venus project on the other hand, gives the responsbility of the goverment which is resource management to computers and calls for the abolishment of money. So in the end no person is running the goverment because there is no goverment.

the vensus project is not communism

[Sniper2008009]

I'm sorry but you're also wrong. To those who have swallowed anti-communist bullshit propaganda in the United States and other Western nations, communism DOES NOT ADVOCATE big government, in fact it also seeks to abolish it. Marx himself taught that in a communistic society, there would be no governments, no taxes, no money, no private ownership of the means of production, and practically every citizen on Earth gets to participate in socio-economic decisions for the benefit of all instead of..

[Sniper2008009]

the elite few who wish to maximize their profit. Of course the problem was getting there and one of the ways in getting there was outlined in the Communist Manifesto which I disagree with. Giving government big powers DOES NOT lead to a communistic society as we have seen, it will have to come from somewhere else.

Frankly I do not understand all the anti-communist sentiment here when most of you do not even understand what communism is all about in theory and base your decisions regarding it..

[Sniper2008009]

..based on the bastardized versions of Marx's communism on some countries which call themselves as communistic when they are not in the first place.

And regarding a resource based economy, yes it is also communism as it also espouses the same tenets of Marx's communist society - no government, no taxes, no private ownership of the means of production, and practically every citizen on Earth gets to participate in socio-economic decisions for the benefit of all instead of the elite few..

[Sniper2008009]

Sorry to say this but you people need to wake up and educate yourselves more. I'm not saying that this resource based economy or communism is a bad thing, just saying that you people are wrong and need to study more..

[christo930]

Everywhere it was tried led to human suffering on a scale never achieved anywhere. Communism is like Keynesian economics in that it doesn't work in real life. How can a communist society exist without anyone to enforce it? There will always be greedy people and power hungry people. It is the way of the world.

[Sniper2008009]

Again communism HAS NEVER BEEN ACHIEVED when will you guys get that through your heads? What was achieved was a form of a dictatorial government which has control of the state and the means of production (ie the factories, industrial sectors, etc) and not a democratic socio-economic order in which ALL people get to make decisions regarding the course of society instead of an elite few.

[Sniper2008009]

"Communism is like Keynesian economics in that it doesn't work in real life"

History tells us you're wrong, return to a time when man's society was still in its hunter-gatherer days, this society is obviously what you consider "communistic". In fact studies have shown that in this society all people were equal, there was no rich and poor, everyone shared their property equally and everyone got to participate in the decision making on policies on what actions should the tribe undertake..

[Sniper2008009]

There were no leaders in that society, no taxes and no government and each individual human being got a fair piece of the pie whenever a commodity was produced through the labor of each individual human in that society. In fact it was so fair and efficient that there was no surplus and in fact humans in that era enjoyed one of the LARGEST hours of rest and "play" in the modern equivalent since these people had too much time on their hands.

All that changed during the agricultural era when..

[Sniper2008009]

..concepts of private property and land ownership took form. These land owners or farmers started recruiting "warriors" to fend off attacks form wild beasts and primitive human hunters trying to kill and eat their domesticated animals and "looting" off with their produce.

Overtime, many humans abandoned the hunter gatherer lifestyle and replaced it with this system of land ownership and agricultural system as it was far more beneficial to grow your own food and have surplus left in cases...

[Sniper2008009]

..of emergency. It also led to massive inequalities as those who were unable to grow their own food and domestic animals due to climate conditions and the like were forced to work with these landowners. Overtime, as agricultural capabilities of humans expanded, these evolved into city states and kingdoms since these farm produce could now feed entire populations.

This also led to inequality, wars and territorial disputes. Communism is nothing more than a return to a communal lifestyle..

[Sniper2008009]

..in which government is abolished, there are no taxes and each one gives according to his needs while still getting the benefit of your labor as well as everyone else's labor without inequality.

The problem though is getting there. One way was outlined in the Communist Manifesto and we know that giving government more powers doesn't work, another one was for laborers ALL AROUND THE WORLD to start a revolution and abolish the current system altogether. We STILL HAVE YET TO SEE THAT. Other..

[Sniper2008009]

..people have proposed to establish a resource based economy as well. Obviously, the goal of human society is communism but the problem lies in getting there.

Sorry to burst the zeitgeist movement and the Venus project but a resource based economy is nothing more than communism in another name.

[christo930]

No it wasn't. There were tribal chiefs. There was definitely a pecking order and some were "richer" than others and had more wives depending on his hunting skills...

Anyway, do you want society to go back to being hunter gatherers? Communism doesn't work. I would LOVE to live in a communist society that functioned well and worked, but one doesn't exist. EVERY single communist experiment has failed to produce a workman's paradise.

[Sniper2008009]

Tribal Chiefs might look like a "leader" in the first glance but they are no more leaders than the Alpha male of the hunter pack of a family of wolves or the Queen of an ant hive. The tribal chiefs never had real power and in fact a tribe's decisions were based on each individual human being in the tribe and NOT on one man alone - ie the chief.

In fact do some more reading on how hunter-gatherers work in pre-agricultural days and see for yourself what I'm talking about. In fact start with wiki

[Sniper2008009]

as it is the most basic. As for going back to being a hunter-gatherer, I never said that I wanted to. Communism DOES NOT mean going back to hunter-gatherer days, it just means having the principles of a communal society and this is possible with modern technology.

Of course, for it to work it must be done in a pure democracy and with the abolishment of money. For now it's not possible as people have been indoctrinated that getting is better than giving..

[RyuDarragh]

I also look at videos like the "Venus Project" and wonder... I'll check it out.

But, I do know that many studies have proven humans are very poor at evaluating risk of any kind. Risk as in personal danger and risk in terms of resource management.

[RyuDarragh]

Risk. The one thing we humans absolutely suck at evaluating. Our ability to assess risks is no better then a pigeons.

[OutdoorsBlackMan]

Animals take fewer risks than humans lol.

But not all humans are very risky.

Look at the video "Heaven on Earth", and you will see a stable society that doesn't operate on banking and the risks behind it.