Does anyone else think that she was just making up answers as she went along? It's like she is completely made up of rhetoric and doesn't think anything through.
I don't see how anyone (even though it's just a small percentage) could support Palin for POTUS. Half of her answers were "what needs to be done". Is she seriously incapable of coming up with a real answer besides pretty much the most generalized/incompetent answer possible? It would probably take like an hour of research to come up with a more detailed answer, assuming you are a person of average intelligence.
ok...now i am getting concerned. We all had a good laugh when Sarah Palin ran for vice president. Now that we are getting closer to electing another president, the joke is not funny anymore. Would the Republican party stop kidding around and tell us who is on going to be on the presidential ticket?
Anyone who supports her and believes her crap is a DUMBA$!
She takes no stand in this whole issue...
Sh's asked what would you do she says: NO AMNESTY, and then she says if they register and follow the rules they can stay.
Then she says we wont reward bad behavior, but they can stay if they follow the steps that we will at some time through immigration reform be provided.
actually legalizing 10 million people would be a huge job boom because you would tell them they must pay taxes or face getting deported also talk about a boom to much need airport tickets and home ownership.
Her voice is so irritating and she has no original thoughts (if any thoughts at all). Even O'Reilly, who is supposed to be supporting her can't stand this very uninformed mean little girl. What a loser.
Old coot O'Reilly is losing viewers and becoming irrelevant on FOX. He thinks bad-mouthing Sarah Palin will earn him a spot at MSNBC. She is so dignified & gracious with buffoon Bill, it does her credit.
I have a feeling that the Democrats are the helicopter hunters to Palin's Grizzlies, metaphorically speaking. Does a Grizzly bear shit in the woods? Nope, they shit on American intelligence.
@JoeDaPlumber Sorry "border" Either way. Bill pretends to be conservative and Sarah just wants to be president, The Bankers want us to collapse. Nobody is going to close the border.
Man, you can see her squirm. She has the same look on her face as she did when Charlie Gibson interviewed her a few years ago. It's so funny that she agreed with the O'Reilly Doctrine. Tina Fey has new material for SNL and the funny thing about the whole thing.....she can just repeat Palin's words verbatim. This lady still needs a lot of work. Hell, check that! She's making millions with what she has. God help us.
@DillonDee1 Legalize Drugs and our prisons will turn empty. Portugal in 2001 Decriminalized all Drugs and all drug use rates, HIV infections, and underage drug use dropped. Google "Portugal 2001 Decriminalization of Drugs."
@JimboVids -- you can't just round up every Jose Gonzales you encounter - most of them are US citizens & of course we have many people from Ireland, etc.
They onlly way to do what idiottic Palin wants is to put 12 million in prison & then see which ones need to go.
@CommonSenseJoe True Free Trade of all Capital Resources (Human & Natural). Anyone on this planet can travel and live anywhere they want as long as they are employed or has funds to support themselves. Go anywhere you desire to live and work without a passport. Corporations are allowed to do this via NAFTA & Free Trade Zones but human capital is not considered free. Let Mexicans into the US and create a more competitive labor market.
@CoSJoe With a pretentious nick like yours, I'm sure common sense is a substitute of congenital idiocy. "Catch the illegals"! Ya, 20 million bounty hunters running around this vast land of ours, rounding up people they don't know like cowboys. This is the solution the teanuts offer. Just point and laugh people, point and laugh. When they reference to the "comprehensive" solution, they I've already realized that this strategy won't work and some people don't possess a common sense to realize it.
@ninuxy Why won't it work? We don't have to catch ALL 12 million at once. It is like the old story of how you eat an elephant. ONE bite at a time. If you are in a boat and it is sinking, the first thing you do is plug the hole, and then bail out the boat. We can find, catch, and deport 12 million people over the next FIVE years, if we start TODAY!
@DillonDee1 If they are illegal, how did we let them in the military in the first place? If I murdered someone, would that be excused if I joined the military? I am sick of lame excuses for illegal actions. They are illegal. They have broken the law. They need to be found and deported. End of story!
@DillonDee1 I would never have allowed him to sign up in the first place. If they were allowed to serve in exchange for citizenship, then they are legal. However, that has nothing to do with addressing illegals in this country unless you advocating we make them all serve in the military.
All I'm saying is that if you think someone who lost a leg fighting for this county should not be granted citizenship, then you either lack common sense or you are a mighty cold person.
@DillonDee1 I have no brief with granting him citizenship. I do with giving it away to 12 million others who are here illegally. I do not accept the conventional wisdom that says we cannot find and deport these illegals. We CAN and MUST do it.
@CommonSenseJoe -- I agree with you that we should grant amnesty to an illegal who lost a leg fighting for our country in Iraq, but what about his children?
@CommonSenseJoe You entirely ignore the fact that these people are here working. Working at the restaurant you eat; working at the grocery you buy your stuff; working to build your house, pick your fruits, and thousands of other venues.
The deportation requires having an enormous body of authority to run around, act like a bunch of cowboys, resulting in civil unrest. Businesses are thrown into chaos. You can't even see beyond your nose to realize the ramification of your crippled strategy.
@ninuxy I am ignoring nothing of the kind. There is no way we are going to catch ALL 12 million at onetime. We already have the authority and people to do it, but the government has chosen NOT to enforce the law. We have cities where the police have been told not to arrest someone who is KNOWN to be illegal and in violation of FEDERAL law. Whether they are work or not has nothing to do with it. Illegal is still illegal. If some want to cause a problem, that is why we have shotguns.
@CommonSenseJoe No one said that the round up would be instant. We are talking about practicality of the matter. It's not feasible and no one in the right mind would implement it. We only have 2 million in the prisons and you want the authorities to forgo their far vital priorities to chase a dish washer? And augment yet another 12 million to the prison system--remember, they are, as you like to put it, committed a "federal crime." Your solution is idiotic and stems from your misplaced rage.
@ninuxy Rage, I am not mad at illegals. I am mad at the liberal Democrats who think that they should be given a free pass and become citizens. I am mad at people who think we cannot catch and deport them. I am mad at people who think the safety and security of our country should be a political issue. I never said put all twelve million in prison. If they have committed crimes in this country, yes, they should go to prison. They should be forced to clean up the gulf to earn their keep.
@CommonSenseJoe As I said, you're displaying too much rage for nothing. If path to citizenship is designed to be obtained after many years of continuous work while adhering to certain rules, I don't see a problem with it. Some of these people already been here for many years and if they abide to the set of rules and stay the course, acquiring citizenship after a dozen years is not an issue. Heck, it takes much less if they apply from overseas (I got mine after "12" years).
But the citizenship is the least of our worries. We need to convince them to get in line, register, and pay taxes accordingly. If you act like a run away sheriff, no one is going to come out of his/her woods. That's just the fact.
You are mad because your strategy is mindlessly conceived and has no base in reality. You cannot "catch" 10's of millions of people without ensuing some sort of mass hysteria and distort the economy because some dude is "mad." Please grow up and think this thorough.
The safety and security of the country would go up the flame if bunch of cowboys run around the country trying to "catch" a working man because it boosts their ego. You said they are "criminals" therefore, one can only speculate where you want them: prison. Do you think that worker who is busting his behind every single day from dawn to dust would feel "safe" to cooperate? Once again, your line of thinking is juvenile and ineffectual.
And "cleaning up the gulf?" What are you babbling about?
@ninuxy You are concerned about the illegals' situation. I am not. They choose to enter this country ILLEGALLY or to stay here ILLEGALLY. They are criminals, but that does not mean they have to go to prison. I don't care if they feel "safe". I want them to be scared and go back to Mexico. I want them to know that they cannot come here illegally and work because we will severely punish anyone who helps or employs them. This is how you fix the problem.
@CommonSenseJoe That's because you don't see beyond your nose. You see solutions in "absolute"--in black and white. Only a reactionary resorts to this sort of school of thought. Yes, they came illegally, thank you for stating the obvious. Now step back and look at the bigger picture see how inane "your" solution is.
Stop kicking and screaming like a little child and have an ensemble of intellectual fortitude to examine various parameters in this equation.
You can't punish the businesses because then they country would suffer immensely as a result. We are in this too deep. You would choke an entire country because of your intransigent way of looking at this problem. You still not getting it, are you?
@ninuxy You liberals punish businesses ALL THE TIME! You never care what economic consequences are. If a business knowingly hires an illegal alien, they are breaking the law. In addition, they are exploiting the person.
These people do not come here all at once, and they will not all be deported at once. The fact remains we need to reverse the flow of them BACK the other direction. It is not impossible. It is quite doable if the political will exists to put Americans FIRST.
@CommonSenseJoe Who said I'm a "Liberal"? Stop assuming and start thinking. Of course they are breaking the law but so is putting a piece of candy in your mouth without pay for it--its significance pales compare to other "crimes."
If you care so much about the exploitation of workers, you wouldn't buy from companies who take advantage of third-world laborer, but you don't care. In your last response, you professed to the fact that you don't care about them. Now all of sudden you're bothered!
@ninuxy I am concerned about the security of our nation. I am concerned that our government is allowing this problem to happen for political purposes. Stealing is STILL stealing. It is always WRONG. You will not solve this problem with good intentions. If you are NOT a liberal then STOP thinking like one. Stop thinking that we cannot secure our border or police our own country. We can do it if WE choose to.
@ninuxy I hate to break it to you but somethings in life ARE absolute. I refuse to believe that this problem cannot be solved and that we must just give up and give in. We need to enforce our borders. We need to enforce our laws. Those who facilitate illegal aliens coming into this country need to be prosecuted to fullest extent of the law. That includes sanctuary cities. When a city is faced with losing it's state and federal funding, they will enforce the laws.
@CommonSenseJoe Ya, except that this is NOT one of those "absolute" moments. And I hate to break this to you, but this problem can be resolved except not your way.
If the current law is adequate and does not address the underlying problem with "sensible" solutions, then enforcing it won't yield any result. What is it with you and "sanctuary" cities? Drop the charade.
@ninuxy Enforcing the law is the sensible solution to the problem. Allowing cities to undermine the law is part of the problem. States that allow illegals to obtain a driver's license are the problem. The charade is that you care a wit about illegals. Your sensible solution is give up and just give them all amnesty. Rewarding crime only invites MORE CRIME.
@ninuxy You are attempting to distort my position to make your point. No one said run around like a "sheriff". I said catch them and send them home. Stop providing sanctuary in cities and states. Stop them at the border. Punish those who hired them. This is not difficult or complicated. I am not mad. I get aggravated at politicians who LIE through their teeth when they say we cannot fix this problem. It can be fixed if you want to fix it.
@CommonSenseJoe Who's going to catch them? Local sheriffs? Do you have any idea what sort of force this requires to "round up" 10's of millions of people? No, you don't. You don't even bother to spend a few minutes to digest what a monumental task this would be. Not to mention the social, economical ramification of such action.
Securing the borders is only a "part" of the comprehensive measure to address the illegal aliens, not the ONLY solution. Try to understand.
@ninuxy I understand your tactic, but it just does not wash. First, I never said just secure the borders. However, we must secure them first. If a boat is taking on water, you FIRST plug the hole. Then you bail out the water! Otherwise, you exhaust yourself trying to stay a float. I also never said just "round up" the illegals. We cannot simply ignore the problem. We catch them every single day but we do NOTHING to send them back. We have cities that provide sanctuary for them.
@CommonSenseJoe And I understand your tactic: failing to see the "reality" of the situation.
Securing the borders "first" doesn't mean diddly squat if it is not implemented along other solutions. Your analogy doesn't stand the reality because it only takes in to account one issue among the landscape of problems.
What you propose is: 1) block the borders 2) chain the illegals 3) send ALL back. Very childish and warrant no rational response.
@ninuxy You cannot accept it because it makes too much sense. Why does everything have to be complicated? Do you disagree with securing the border? If you agree, then let us take that off "the landscape" of problems. Until the border is secure, deporting them is useless.
When did I say "chain the illegals"? I said we need to stop supporting illegals with education, welfare, healthcare, and jobs. We need to stop cities from circumventing FEDERAL law by providing sanctuary for them.
@CommonSenseJoe If it had made so much sense, all the experts would have jumped on the ship already. Your solution is sophomoric and riddled with the grade school naivety.
You are not considering all the parameters and how they'd play out once dialed in different directions. It's a complex problem and you want to solve it by flipping one switch; it's not going to work my friend.
No one is opposing the idea of securing the borders but, first, not by militarizing the region, second it has to go in to effect along with many other provisions--it has to be a comprehensive solution which addresses the problem from various angles.
The problem with your solution is that you are focusing on the "deportation" which is not feasible at this stage. It's like asking to remove all guns and weapons off of all the streets and out of everyone's home (assuming 2nd Amendment is repealed). It's not going to work because it's been ossified in our society.
And that's exactly what I've been saying all along. If illegals want to stay here, let it be but under certain rules.
Deportation won't work at this stage. The only way to remedy this problem is through cooperation by the undocumented aliens. Provide them with worker's permit and set the rules for their limitations. Make them pay taxes. If they wish to use certain social programs, they have to pay in to it accordingly. Securing the borders and stream lining the process of worker's application and what not has to go along, hand in hand, with these residency plans.
@ninuxy That is called surrender. I refuse to believe we need the criminals "cooperation" to enforce the law. What if they decide NOT to follow the rules? Who is going to enforce them then? We already know these people don't follow the rules to start with. You say deportation does not work, but give no reason why it doesn't work. It would work if we secured the border.
@CommonSenseJoe You can think of them as "criminals," I would say Capitalism at its best: trying to find a cheaper way to do the same thing. Wal-Mart and many other conglomerate companies are doing it by outsourcing. So why not certain industries that want to provide a cheaper product by hiring a much needed work force that is just next neighbor.
Make them register by providing incentive to them to come out of wood works, then tax them properly. Everybody wins.
@CommonSenseJoe And no one said that you didn't agree with guest worker program. I said it's part of the comprehensive solution.
There would be limited deportation base on statues of the undocumented alien projected by the new law. There will NOT be a mass deportation due to the very simple fact that it is not practical and nor adheres to any rational course of action.
The last time, Reagan only granted everyone a citizenship without including other parts of the comprehensive resolution. If the law is broken, it doesn't matter whether you sanction it or condemn it--it's broken to begin with. And now, due to ignorance and lack of perception, you and your ilk want to turn the situation to a whole apocalyptic level of crapdom [sic].
@CommonSenseJoe If the implementation of the law is not possible, then it is a broken law.
And yes, the way I feel about him spending every second of his life in this country for a quarter of century is very pertinent to how I view him as my country man. If he fights for this country, even though he doesn't have a piece of paper to validate his citizenship statues, he IS my country man. You see the world in black and white but the world is a pied canvas. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.
@ninuxy No, I am sorry for you. The world is the way it is, not the way you "wish" it was. The young man, regardless of your feelings, is an illegal alien. His parents broke the law and are also illegal aliens. We are not talking about a piece of paper but an objective FACT. The bad news is that you, and people like you have no understanding what it means to live in a nation of laws. Without the rule of law, we are doomed.
@CommonSenseJoe The world is the way you "make" it to be. His parents broke the law. Why does he have to pay for it? He is more American than most so he must stay. This is his home. We are not talking about objective facts here but rather reality that dictates he has lived all his life here, period.
The problem with people like you is that you don't understand the meaning of a "broken law" and still echoing the same failed ideologies that have no merit in reality.
@ninuxy It may be broken, but not in the sense that we need to give these people amnesty. Write a new law that is HARDER on businesses that employ them and states/cities that harbor them. Spend up the process of deporting them. Make the Arizona law NATIONAL.
@CommonSenseJoe As I said, amnesty is "only" given to a number of these folks. Obviously, someone like the young guy I mentioned is a prime example to receive citizenship right away. Others are people who have lived here for a long time and are willing to register, pay proper penalties, stay and contribute for at least 10 to 15 years, then obtain their citizenship.
Giving out amnesty to "everyone" like the Reagan era is a mistake.
AZ law is absolutely useless and idiotic in nature. First, immigration is a federal law not the states'. The local law enforcement does not have the authority to conduct such operation. The judge that struck down the AZ law precisely argued that and the law makers are scrambling to rewrite that provision.
My problem with the bill is that it does not do anything to remedy the illegal workers dilemma. The law enforcement would be in hard position to make such arrests because in most cases, they would not have a "reasonable suspension" to deduct that the person has a legal or illegal statues. This leads to many law suits for wrongful arrests so the authorities wouldn't do as much as the bill's intent was designed for (to round up illegal aliens). We need a national and comprehensive measures.
@ninuxy It does what it should do. When we have stopped someone for another offense, and there is a reasonable suspicion that they may be illegal, the officer should check their status. If they are found to be illegal, they should be deported. It ought to be the law of land everywhere.
@CommonSenseJoe Right, no one disputes that the enforcement of the law is illegal. But that's not what's being debated here. The law is broken and cannot be enforced; it does not make sense and is not feasible. The spirit of the law in this case is broken hence the exigency to have a comprehensive and sensible in place. That's why we have amendments to remedy the old broken and not functional laws.
@ninuxy How is enforcing the law "illegal"? I do not accept your premise that the law is broken and cannot be enforced. Failure do it does not mean it cannot be done. In fact, I think those that oppose the Arizona law does so because it will prove that IT CAN DONE. The intentional failure of the FEDERAL government to enforce the law and protect our borders is the problem. If they do not enforce the new law any better than the old, the rest will be the same as before.
@CommonSenseJoe Enforcing an unenforceable law might as well be voided. If it was feasible, the problem would have been resolved many decades ago. Stop pretending that the broken law is a nostrum to the current dilemma. It didn't work, and it would not work, period.
We must allow those who wish to become a permanent citizen, who are small percentage of illegals, under stringent rules, stream line the worker permits, then secure the borders. The latter will solve itself w/ a sensible law.
@ninuxy No, I do not accept that premise. If we cannot make the old law work, then nothing will change with a new law. Breaking the law requires punishment. You are deluded if you think rewarding illegals is going to result in less illegals. Your plan relies on those who are here illegally to turn themselves in and follow "stringent rules". These people are not big on rules, remember! If only a small percentage accept the offer, What do you plan to do with the 10's of thousands who DON"T
@ninuxy Why would he get citizenship right away? Why should he get it before someone who came here legally and has followed the law? These illegals are NOT going to pay any fines or wait 10-15 years. If they were willing to do that they would have come over legally. No amnesty at all. Send them home first and then determine which would be allowed back in based on the value they bring to our country.
@CommonSenseJoe Why would he get a citizenship right away? Oh gee, I don't know, maybe because he has spent his ENTIRE life in this country since he was a month old. He has already part of the fabric of this society,assimilated culturally and socially, and is contributing to the economy by actually working.
Your problem is that you refuse to put things in perspective. First of all, he didn't come here on his own; he was "a month" old when his "parents" brought him here.
Second, he's been here all along; there is no other country for him. He doesn't know how to function or doesn't have the necessary tools to operate in another "foreign" country. For you to act like a bully to advance your crippled and not-so-well-thought-out agenda at the expense of his "life" is nothing short of your nefarious character. We are not talking about someone who stumbles in to this country last month. Are you even following the parameters of the argument? I guess not.
@ninuxy Wait a minute! Is he or is he not an illegal alien? This is not a matter of opinion or even subjective. He is an illegal alien. His parents are illegal aliens. If you send them back together, he will learn to live. If he wants to come back, he can immigrate legal like everyone else. He should receive NO SPECIAL treatment. He should not benefit from his or his parents' crime.
@CommonSenseJoe We are not disputing his legal status and we went over this many times but your sleight-of-mind hinders your cognitive functionality to see this beyond a "black and white" issue and that's sad.
Send him back where? His parents are no longer alive and you want to send a 25-year-old to some "foreign" country!!! Where's your head? Buried in zealotry and single mindedness? Sorry to hear that.
@ninuxy Why not? He received 25 years of benefits at the expense of the American taxpayer. He can be returned to his own country, and if he wants to come back and live, DO IT LEGALLY.
@ninuxy Why should he get citizenship right away? Why should he be rewarded for his parents' crimes and our failure to enforce the law? Why should he be given what others who followed the law have yet to receive? Is he actually working? How is he working if he is not legal? Fraud? Identity theft? Does rewarding him with citizenship invite others to come to our country illegally with young kids so that they will be rewarded in a few years? You are letting your emotions run wild.
@CommonSenseJoe Because he has lived in this country since the day he was born. If he was a year old, I would have suggested to look in to other circumstances whether the baby (and its family, if there is any) should be allowed to stay or sent back to the country of origin. But in this case, he has lived since day one for quarter of century in this country. He is an American, perhaps more than you and your sense of self-righteous entitlement. Where is your common sense?
And for your gratuitous question, yes, he is been working for a decade, contributing to the society. You constantly view people like him as "criminal" while they are merely trying to make a living. It's not his fault his parents brought him here when he was a baby.
Again, you are viewing this in a singular prism. You cannot lump his circumstance with an illegal immigrant who is the MS-13 gang member. At this juncture, it is his right to be a citizen and anyone with common sense sees that.
@ninuxy No, he has no right to be a citizen. He is old enough to know he is here illegally. He knows he is working under a false identity. He is a criminal by his own actions. You cannot magic dismiss decades of illegal status and the associated crimes involved. Just because he is not MS-13 does not make him any less a criminal for breaking our laws.
@CommonSenseJoe He's actually not working under a false identity. A lot of these people pay state taxes and do carry a valid driver license. States have different regulations. You see, you call someone like that guy, who is a hard working, honest individual, a "criminal" and expect others to respect your views. You are far mistaken. As a matter of fact, his "white American" girlfriend is helping him to get his citizenship papers in order. Too bad you won't shake his hand when he gets it.
@ninuxy You must have a social security number to work and pay taxes. Since he was not born HERE, he does not have a legal SS number. This is fraud. He is not an honest individual if he is committing fraud. The color of his girlfriend's skin is not relevant. The facts are relevant. Too bad the rule of law does not matter to people like you. The judge should lock him up and deport him back to his birth country. As long as we are handing out citizenship to illegals, they will come.
@ninuxy He is not an American. He is an illegal alien. This is not debatable. This is a fact. He is not entitled to anything. He has lived here illegally, worked here illegally, and receive an education here illegally. No matter how long he has been here, it has been illegally. To grant his citizenship disrespects ALL THOSE who did it legally.
@ninuxy It is perfectly rational. These people have broken the law. They have violated the borders of our nation. Regardless of their motives or intentions, they broke the law and here illegally. There is not going to be a "mass" deportation because you will not catch them in "mass". However, if you get serious about enforcing the existing law, you can and will send a lot of them home. This must be coupled with securing the border to KEEP them there.
@CommonSenseJoe The law that itself is broken cannot be broken. Read the fine print. As far as "they" being here illegally, that is a true statement. But it doesn't change the fact that your solution leads to more disastrous outcome rather than alleviating the situation.
The enforcement of the law that itself is broken doesn't yield to the positive result. I would like to have most of them registered and provide incentive to do so, one being provide a reasonable path to citizenship.
@ninuxy So your solution is to reward their crime with an incentive to be "registered" and ultimately grant them citizenship. How does this NOT encourage more illegals to come over the border?
What is this "disastrous outcome" you keep harping about? Fewer people using public welfare is "disastrous"? Fewer people driving around our country with no auto insurance or even a legal license is "disastrous"? Fewer children in schools consuming the resources and demanding an education is bad?
@CommonSenseJoe The "reward" you are so haphazardly throwing around is only going to be granted to a small percentage since 1) most don't want to stay here other than work for a period of time then go back 2) those who wish to stay would have to go through a lot before such "reward" given to them.
This discourages others to come here "illegally" and encourages them to get a working permit and come here "legally." You see the difference?
Fewer people would be using public welfare "without" paying in to it. If we get them to register and pay taxes, then it wouldn't be a burden, would it? If we get them to be on the working visa, then they pay insurance and pay property taxes. How do you get to accomplish that? NOT by using your methodology.
Businesses need them and they've been already ossified in the society. Your means of dealing with this issue is irrational.
@ninuxy "IF" is a game for children. You will NOT get them to register. They will not come forward to be registered unless they are going to get amnesty.
Businesses use them but do not NEED them. If we need them, we can allow greater numbers to come here LEGALLY after we send the illegals home. You are simply wrong about this. Send them home will raise wages and decrease unemployment.
@CommonSenseJoe If the incentives are right, yes, many will come forward and register. As I said, I've personally asked almost 100's of these people whether they wish to stay, and almost 95% have scoffed at me, indicating no. Very few set up shop here and hire the rest.
How on earth raising wages would decrease the unemployment? If I have to pay 10% more to my employees, either I have to raise the prices, lose customers, or lay off a few personals. Where's the logic in that?
@ninuxy I don't hold with bribing people who break the law to obey the law. Sending them all home and let those who want to comeback do so.
If you send illegals homes, employers would have to hire Americans to do the work. This would mean they would have to pay a wage that Americans would accept. Workers then spend their wages, and economic activity increases. If you already pay your workers a fair wage, you would not be affected. Illegals send their wages home to Mexico.
@CommonSenseJoe Your plan is just plain stupid and not well thought out, period. You've sitting on your porch, assuming the world operates in black and white--it doesn't. If sending them "all" was an option, I wouldn't hesitate to support it; unfortunately, this does not match with the reality of the situation. You can kick and scream all you want and cry foul, but it doesn't change the fact that the opposition proposal considers these issues at hand--yours does not.
No, if you send all illegals home--which is not possible--American businesses will go out of work, hire half or less than number of undocumented workers, their insurance premiums will skyrocket, and eventually they have to jack up prices which hurt the consumers' bottom line and in return, the consumers will spend less and the snow ball down the hill effect will take its hold--the economy will suffer even further. You don't know diddly squat about the ramification of your proposal.
Your myopic understanding of how a business is run is very telling. Where does the business find an "extra" money, due to hiked wages, to pay the newly hired "American" employees? Capital doesn't just grow out of the thin air. It has to have a higher profit on return to justify such wages. In such uncertain times, a business will not start hiring workers with far more higher wages and "magically" maintain the same price tag for its consumers. Your inverted logic don't pass a grade school biz 101
@ninuxy I do not accept your premise that illegals are essential to our economy. Will capturing and deporting illegals affect our economy? Most certainly! ALL Insurance premiums will GO DOWN. Illegals don't pay insurance premiums of any kind, yet they cause accidents and receive medical care. This drives up costs and increases premiums. People are unemployed NOW and people are spending less. We need jobs. We need more Americans working. Prices going up in not always a bad thing.
@ninuxy I obviously understand more about how the world operates than you do. I work in the real world with real people. I understand that we are not going to round them "all" up in one day or even that we will eventually get them "all". However, you must start with the ability to enforce WHATEVER law you have or new law you write. If you begin with the premise that we do not have the ability to enforce the existing law, what makes you think you will magically have to enforce the new law?
@CommonSenseJoe I'm sure you do, that's why you are on YouTube 24/7 spewing sophomorically failed arguments. And I never said the deportation is an instant procedure but rather an impractical and detrimental to the economy. Such strategy requires a complete lock down of the entire country and borders; it would yield in social unrest and agitation of masses. For crying out loud, we can't even round up all the gang members in one state, let alone 10's of millions of working people.
You refuse to see this issue beyond your nose and constantly pandering to your own sense of God knows whatever. You have suspended the rationality. The law is ill-equipped to handle the current situation. If it wasn't, then the last 4 decades, through various administrations, it would have been resolved--but it did NOT for it's not feasible. Try to understand the facts.
@ninuxy No, you are not going to convince me that we CANNOT find and deport the vast majority of these illegals. We have yet to make a serious effort at dealing with the issue for political reasons. We don't need more sickly, uneducated, welfare dependent individuals. The fact is these are potential and actual Democrat voters we are talking about. Giving them amnesty hurts everyone except the politicians for whom they will someday vote.
@CommonSenseJoe I don't have to convince you a bit; the last 40 years have been a salient proof that the current law is ineffectual and impotent in implementation--that's the given and proven fact. It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it will not work in the future either. The sooner you realize that, the sooner we look for more comprehensive measures to address the issue. You refusal is simply stymieing the valued efforts to take the country to the right direction and it's sad.
@ninuxy What is the right direction? Surrender our borders and the rule of law to an illegal mob! The law does not work because NO ONE IS ENFORCING IT. When the federal government is standing in the way of a state simply trying to protect it's own people, THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
@ninuxy I do not accept that it cannot be done or that it would lead to "social unrest and agitation of masses". Deportation is not impractical. It happens every day, just not enough of it. It would not require a "complete lock down" of the country, only of the borders. There is no reason why we cannot secure our borders. Once that is effectively accomplished, you start sending these people home. They are not that hard to find if you really want to find them.
@CommonSenseJoe Oh you better believe that it will lead to some dire consequences socially and economically. It's like announcing there are 12 million gang members, look into the kitchen where you are being served, look at the houses that are being built, smoke them out, seine the criminals...
The very large percentage of the deportations take place at the border and rightfully so but a collective effort to round up 12 million+ people, including children, is just not practical.
@ninuxy You say that but it is simply NOT true. We do not have to catch and deport ALL 12 million in one day. We do have to secure the border FIRST. If your boat is sinking, you must plug the hole FIRST, then bail out the water. No one said they were all gang members. They are ALL here illegally. Once you start seriously catching and deporting them, many will return on their own in the hopes that they may return legally. Those caught and deported would go to the back of the line.
@CommonSenseJoe What on earth do you do on YouTube 24/7? Frankly, with "not" so busy life of mine, I don't get to spend every second here. What do you do for living? Are you unemployed? Need to work on your resume? Seriously man, every time I response, you are at it within minutes. What gives?
I didn't contrive that the deportation occur in a single day. But rather, the effect and social unrest that it will ensue if every law enforcement is all of a sudden given an order to run around, pursuing these "criminals," then the social unrest will surely ensue not to mention the economical damage that it will be inflected on the country.
Do you seriously think you are the only smart cookie who has ever thought of departing ALL the illegals? No, you are not the first but the fact remains that the old law does NOT work and the result is very much tangible. Realize your mistake and strive to amend it.
Surrender is only foreseeable when we continue on the path of wrong strategy that is being espoused by the "deportation-for-all" tent. I offered a more sensible solution on multiple occasions. If you stream line the workers permit, which will encompasses a very large majority of the illegals and offer path to citizenship for a few who are willing to play by the set of rules to obtain their permanent statues, then securing the borders would be a much easier task.
The law is not being enforced because it is not enforceable. If it was, then we wouldn't be in this dilemma, would we? Why are you being so intransigent regarding facts? Immigration is a federal issue not the state and for a good reason. The problem lies in a fact that the current laws, economical and immigration wise, are not adequate to address the current circumstances, hence the continual failure of its objective.
I do not know the exact detail of his documentation, but if he has obtained an illegal SS number, it doesn't change the fact that he's been paying in to "it" and pay taxes. For crying out loud, he's running a business and has 2 other "American" employees. To me rule of inadequate law doesn't matter and the reality of the day backs my sentiment. If tomorrow the law dictates ALL illegals get their citizenship (a law that I do not support on face value), you could too disagree with its spirit.
@ninuxy Again, you are attempting to justify a crime by the surrounding circumstances. I disagree with rewarding him for the fraud and deception. The law is not the problem. It is the enforcement of the law that is a failure. I am not advocating even throwing him in jail, which he deserves, but simply deporting him. Such a smart guy would be able to come back legally if he really wants to.
@ninuxy No, it is not being enforced because the government is looking the other way. Democrats want these new citizens voting for them. They want them legalized. Immigration is a federal issue. Breaking the law is a local, state, and federal issue. Entering the country illegally is a crime, not immigration.
@CommonSenseJoe You are so blind. It's the Republicans backed by the business community that wishes the illegals to stay; it's good for business, it's good for customers. It's the same economical parallel between the companies who outsource portion of their operation overseas because country B does it better or cheaper. It's just how the economy demands it. You are outsmart on this one my friend.
So go ahead, be a "crime fighter" for the rest of us. Be a cowboy and round them up. *yawn*
@ninuxy I am not blind at all. I could care less who backed what before, Democrat or Republican. It is not the same "economical parallel" because one is legal and the other is ILLEGAL. Illegals costs this country HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars every single year. Enforcing the law does not make one a "cowboy". The rule of law is what makes our country what it is. It is a simple problem that requires a simple straightforward solution. Secure the border and send them home.
@CommonSenseJoe You are trying to solve the equation for an unknown element that is not even there.
You are simply misinformed about the issue. Don't think for a moment I wish a guy to come here, gets sick, gets hospitalized for 2 years in ICU and costs the hospital millions which comes out of taxpayers' pocket. I want them to come here legally for work and pay their due.
But the problem is that they are already here and there is nothing you can do to round them up. The most sensible solution is what I've stated which makes them to register as a temp worker legally.
As I said, you are misguided about the net worth of their presence here. If illegals were taking more than what they put in, as you falsely claim, the entire business community would be up and armed to throw them out and so were the politicians.
It's as idiotic as saying Wal-Mart outsourcing of jobs "costs" us more. Well, if that was the case, then prices would obviously wouldn't be cheap, would they? Their outsourcing is bringing prices down which helps Americans buy more, grease the economy, create "better" paying jobs in return. It has always worked that way. There are losers in between but a country would benefit as a whole.
@ninuxy Wal-Mart does not outsource jobs. They provide value to their customers. To argue that we need an underpaid, exploited class of illegal workers to make our economy work is simply wrong. Every worker needs to have the protections of the law by being legal themselves. If wages need to come up then let them come up. If price need to rise, then let them rise. The cost of health insurance and health care will go down. The cost of car insurance will go down. It all balances out.
@CommonSenseJoe Wal-Mart does not outsource jobs? What planet have you been spending your time on? They have been coercing their suppliers to ship manufacturing and whole host of other jobs to overseas to maintain their low prices, then you tell me they do not outsource jobs?
Buddy, sorry to break it to you, but it seems like you don't even possess a rudimentary understanding of corporate world. I don't know what you've been doing all your life, but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.
If they are not underpaid, you wouldn't be able to afford a house in such low price which means the builder wouldn't develop and 80 other subcontractors, suppliers, and economical chain of reactions would have to be halted.
The housing industry is a vital part of any economy. You don't just feed the chain I described above but rather, when someone buys a house, he buys a furniture, a TV which needs a DVD player, kitchen supplies, you name it, the whole economy rolls on it.
By no means I dispute that a worker must have some protection under the law which is exactly why I strenuously hope that the new comprehensive measures provides them with some. It's good for business, it's good for economy. And above all, I want to have a sensible tax structure levied for what they do, so they don't turn out to be a burden on society.
Yes, there are illegals who are sucking resources out of the rest of the country. You have hospitals who have to pay millions to take care of an illegal in ICU for years. That's not fair to the citizens of this country. There are districts that are overrun by illegal children taken space in classrooms. I don't oppose them to be educated but their parents MUST pay their share through taxes.
There are many ways to hamper their practice of taking advantage of system. The system is actually in place believe it or not; it just requires a new law to "wire" them together which would effectively cut off funding (of any sort) to people who are here illegally. Don't confuse this part with people who just come here to work. I'm talking about folks who take from the social programs because of their children. That part can actually be limited to them effectively.
You are dead wrong about the cost of health care and reflexively, cost of health insurance. Health care is a monster of its own that needs to be examined differently from any other industry. It's the same misguided understanding of what "motivates" the industry to continue to be costly that makes people believe they can lower the health care expenditure, but that's another issue.
@ninuxy Sure I could afford a house! I would pay more, but my costs would be lower in other areas. Trust me, there would be people take the jobs if we simply stopped paying people to do NOTHING. Our economy does not need illegal to make it work.
@ninuxy What their suppliers do is not the same as Wal-Mart doing it. If a domestic supplier has the right price and quality, I am sure Wal-Mart would go with them. There is nothing wrong with giving the consumer a good price.
@CommonSenseJoe Wal-Mart coerces its suppliers to move their operations to overseas in order to maintain lower cost--it's a well documented phenomenon. They have an economical clout to do it or else the supplier would be dropped. This in effect has resulted in millions of jobs being shifted overseas.
The domestic supplier would have no chance of competing against a Chinese manufacturer which pays 30 times less to its overworked employees with no benefits.
And that's exactly what my point was. The same way Wal-Mart's action is resulting in jobs being lost here, the gain would be the rest of the country be able to afford certain products with lowered prices. Same with the illegal workers; there a "demand" for prices to be lowered, hence the employment of undocumented workers. I guess that obvious escaped you.
@ninuxy Sorry, there is no comparison. Wal-Mart is NO BREAKING THE LAW. Illegal aliens ARE BREAKING THE LAW. Illegals cost this country BILLIONS of dollars every year. You cannot make a case for the exploitation of illegals as being a good thing for our economy. I do not dispute that removing them from the economy would some impact. However, the MARKET would compensate for the effect. Some wages would go up. Some business would innovate to eliminate the need for the cheap labor.
@ninuxy You are still blaming the wrong people. Wal-Mart sells products. Suppliers supply those products. Wal-Mart cares only about making a profit. Where those products are made is off no concern them IF they are of the same quality and cost. Your issue is with the Chinese government and their labor practices, not ours. Still, one needs to wonder why a product can be made their better and cheaper, then SHIPPED here, and sell for a lower cost than an American made one.
@ninuxy Again, I do not accept your premise that there is "nothing you can do to round them up". It can be done if we really want to do it. This is the real reason behind the opposition to the AZ law. It would prove that it can be done, and the federal government cannot allow that to be proved.
I am not misguided about their net worth. They cost us far more than they bring to the table. If they did not work the jobs, somebody else would. The economy would not suffer at all.
@CommonSenseJoe No, the opposition to the AZ law, at least speaking for myself is, it's just a stupid law that foster prejudice (not to be confused with racism). It does nothing to remedy the problem even if you see it as a tool to advance "your" method of dealing with the illegal immigrants.
First, it requires the law enforcement to stop the law breakers for some violation. Then they have to have a "probable" cause to go from that violation to ask the law breaker for his legal status which would be a very rare. No officer would want to waste his time dealing with legal status of someone when he has to deal with so many other issues at hand. Second, the department would probably have to deal with avalanche of law suits as this strategy would nab many innocent people.
Wow, you don't know diddly squat about how labor market works, sorry to say that. Your responses is a clear indicative of simpleton mind. It's about the demand and supply. You should read more about companies' adaptability to ration work force before making a such crass comment.
@ninuxy No, I have a solution that actually solves the problem rather than perpetuates the problem. Tell me if we do everything you have advocated, and say 1 million of the 12 million step up, what do we do with the other 11 million who remain illegal? What are you willing to do then about enforcement?
@CommonSenseJoe If the new comprehensive law is designed to accommodate their demand, we wouldn't be worrying about those "remaining 11 million" and obviously if we got to that point, then the alleged new law would be a failure too--you are arguing to hypothetical.
@ninuxy Your solution rewards them for their illegal activity and disrespects those who have followed the law. It would invite more illegals to come thinking they would stand a better chance than doing the process legally. If you want more worker permits, fine, give them to those who come LEGALLY.
@CommonSenseJoe My solution is the only solution because it would stream line the workers to come here, work, pay their share due of taxes, and move back to their country. A small percentage who wish to stay and follow a long list of rules to obtain the citizenship are welcome to do so. You are viewing the world in black and white, my way or the highway--that attitude has no place in the real world, sorry to break the ice for you here.
@ninuxy Your whole solution is premised on the voluntary compliance of those who have already demonstrated their disregard for the law. It won't work just like all the other times we have tried this "pathway to citizenship" nonsense. If we cannot catch them NOW, what makes you think you would be able catch them THEN? Without enforcement, NO LAW works. That is the real world.
Does anyone else think that she was just making up answers as she went along? It's like she is completely made up of rhetoric and doesn't think anything through.
sasosaso3000 5 months ago
I don't see how anyone (even though it's just a small percentage) could support Palin for POTUS. Half of her answers were "what needs to be done". Is she seriously incapable of coming up with a real answer besides pretty much the most generalized/incompetent answer possible? It would probably take like an hour of research to come up with a more detailed answer, assuming you are a person of average intelligence.
automusk 9 months ago
How did Sarah Palin earn her citizenship, it's called amnesty! That's why she looked so clueless in the interview.
Letsgetreal2011 1 year ago
WOW! BILL OREILLY IS SO NICE TO HER..... HMMM A LITTLE INTERRUPTION TO COVER UP THE FIX.
golftrailsucks 1 year ago
ok...now i am getting concerned. We all had a good laugh when Sarah Palin ran for vice president. Now that we are getting closer to electing another president, the joke is not funny anymore. Would the Republican party stop kidding around and tell us who is on going to be on the presidential ticket?
AzBeach2012 1 year ago
Sarah Palin is STUPID!
Anyone who supports her and believes her crap is a DUMBA$!
She takes no stand in this whole issue...
Sh's asked what would you do she says: NO AMNESTY, and then she says if they register and follow the rules they can stay.
Then she says we wont reward bad behavior, but they can stay if they follow the steps that we will at some time through immigration reform be provided.
So she wants amnesty! Can't you see!
MrJlobo 1 year ago
they are both fucking idiots.... especially Palin, seriously go write another bullshit book
kai0shin 1 year ago
Why does Dipshit O'Reilly listen to the Quitter
EvolvingKnowledge 1 year ago
She is so refudiating
Revolucionario02 1 year ago
They took 'er jobs!
PrinceGeorgeCutbanks 1 year ago
oh no not ronald regan again
philly1537 1 year ago
actually legalizing 10 million people would be a huge job boom because you would tell them they must pay taxes or face getting deported also talk about a boom to much need airport tickets and home ownership.
philly1537 1 year ago
she just said she wanted amnesty lol she didnt want to sound inhumane
philly1537 1 year ago
Her voice is so irritating and she has no original thoughts (if any thoughts at all). Even O'Reilly, who is supposed to be supporting her can't stand this very uninformed mean little girl. What a loser.
eqsmooth 1 year ago
That depends on his deal with the military.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
Reagan never solved the immigration problem. I think she'd make the same damn mistake...
QuartuvLarry 1 year ago
Old coot O'Reilly is losing viewers and becoming irrelevant on FOX. He thinks bad-mouthing Sarah Palin will earn him a spot at MSNBC. She is so dignified & gracious with buffoon Bill, it does her credit.
hawgwallah 1 year ago
when is Sarah Palin gonna come out with naked pictures? I just mute it when she speaks. She's hot.
JoeDaPlumber 1 year ago
Americans don't want to work anyways. The UFW is offering good jobs which remain unfilled, jobs which illegals currently do.
JoeDaPlumber 1 year ago
I have a feeling that the Democrats are the helicopter hunters to Palin's Grizzlies, metaphorically speaking. Does a Grizzly bear shit in the woods? Nope, they shit on American intelligence.
Philinspaces 1 year ago 2
That woman is an idiot
Fringe111 1 year ago
Comment removed
btwall60 1 year ago
Bill is a tool globalist tool. She would never close the boarder either. They are both tools.
Flashbangb4 1 year ago
@Flashbangb4 "boarder" LOL!!! Really why even give an opinion?
JoeDaPlumber 1 year ago
@JoeDaPlumber Sorry "border" Either way. Bill pretends to be conservative and Sarah just wants to be president, The Bankers want us to collapse. Nobody is going to close the border.
Flashbangb4 1 year ago
Man, you can see her squirm. She has the same look on her face as she did when Charlie Gibson interviewed her a few years ago. It's so funny that she agreed with the O'Reilly Doctrine. Tina Fey has new material for SNL and the funny thing about the whole thing.....she can just repeat Palin's words verbatim. This lady still needs a lot of work. Hell, check that! She's making millions with what she has. God help us.
66HTown 1 year ago
We're screwed.......
JebBlack2010 1 year ago
The Emergence Of Greed/watch?v=CjJE2R4sNUU
theemergenceofgreed1 1 year ago
It seems like Bill gave her all the answers to his questions.
fullfrost 1 year ago
Our State & Federal Prisons are over-crowded with a total of 1.47 million prisoners & Palin wants to arrest 12 million.
Okay, now has she any real solution?
DillonDee1 1 year ago
@DillonDee1 Legalize Drugs and our prisons will turn empty. Portugal in 2001 Decriminalized all Drugs and all drug use rates, HIV infections, and underage drug use dropped. Google "Portugal 2001 Decriminalization of Drugs."
ManufacturedThoughts 1 year ago 2
@DillonDee1
She didn't say incarcerate them and hold them in our prisons, she said DEPORT them. Sheeesh.
JimboVids 1 year ago
@JimboVids -- you can't just round up every Jose Gonzales you encounter - most of them are US citizens & of course we have many people from Ireland, etc.
They onlly way to do what idiottic Palin wants is to put 12 million in prison & then see which ones need to go.
Yes, it's a Nazi tactic & so "Sarah Palin".
DillonDee1 1 year ago 2
@DillonDee1
"idiottic Palin"
----
Oh, if only you were bright enough to see the irony........"idiottic" Palin, huh.
JimboVids 1 year ago
@JimboVids -- due to an accident I have a tremor in my left hand - causing me to sometimes make mistakes - sorry.
DillonDee1 1 year ago
Bill is wrong about this. He must be going soft in his old age. You solve this problem with common sense.
1) Secure the border.
2) Catch the illegals
3) Catch those who hire illegals and put them in prison.
4) Deport them back the Mexico or put them in prison if they are criminals.
5) Any city or state that gives illegals sanctuary can no longer receive ANY federal money for ANY problem regardless.
Problem Solved!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe True Free Trade of all Capital Resources (Human & Natural). Anyone on this planet can travel and live anywhere they want as long as they are employed or has funds to support themselves. Go anywhere you desire to live and work without a passport. Corporations are allowed to do this via NAFTA & Free Trade Zones but human capital is not considered free. Let Mexicans into the US and create a more competitive labor market.
ManufacturedThoughts 1 year ago
@CoSJoe With a pretentious nick like yours, I'm sure common sense is a substitute of congenital idiocy. "Catch the illegals"! Ya, 20 million bounty hunters running around this vast land of ours, rounding up people they don't know like cowboys. This is the solution the teanuts offer. Just point and laugh people, point and laugh. When they reference to the "comprehensive" solution, they I've already realized that this strategy won't work and some people don't possess a common sense to realize it.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Why won't it work? We don't have to catch ALL 12 million at once. It is like the old story of how you eat an elephant. ONE bite at a time. If you are in a boat and it is sinking, the first thing you do is plug the hole, and then bail out the boat. We can find, catch, and deport 12 million people over the next FIVE years, if we start TODAY!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe -- and what will you do with the illegals who joined the military & put their lives on the line in Iraq?
DillonDee1 1 year ago
@DillonDee1 If they are illegal, how did we let them in the military in the first place? If I murdered someone, would that be excused if I joined the military? I am sick of lame excuses for illegal actions. They are illegal. They have broken the law. They need to be found and deported. End of story!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe -- During the Iraq War the Bush Adm was so desperate for young men to sign up -- they took in many illegals.
We just granted citizenship to 6 of them in a ceremony here in Houston.
One of the young men left a leg in Iraq for this country - would you have denied him citizenship?
DillonDee1 1 year ago
@DillonDee1 I would never have allowed him to sign up in the first place. If they were allowed to serve in exchange for citizenship, then they are legal. However, that has nothing to do with addressing illegals in this country unless you advocating we make them all serve in the military.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe --
All I'm saying is that if you think someone who lost a leg fighting for this county should not be granted citizenship, then you either lack common sense or you are a mighty cold person.
DillonDee1 1 year ago
@DillonDee1 I have no brief with granting him citizenship. I do with giving it away to 12 million others who are here illegally. I do not accept the conventional wisdom that says we cannot find and deport these illegals. We CAN and MUST do it.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe -- I agree with you that we should grant amnesty to an illegal who lost a leg fighting for our country in Iraq, but what about his children?
DillonDee1 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe You entirely ignore the fact that these people are here working. Working at the restaurant you eat; working at the grocery you buy your stuff; working to build your house, pick your fruits, and thousands of other venues.
The deportation requires having an enormous body of authority to run around, act like a bunch of cowboys, resulting in civil unrest. Businesses are thrown into chaos. You can't even see beyond your nose to realize the ramification of your crippled strategy.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I am ignoring nothing of the kind. There is no way we are going to catch ALL 12 million at onetime. We already have the authority and people to do it, but the government has chosen NOT to enforce the law. We have cities where the police have been told not to arrest someone who is KNOWN to be illegal and in violation of FEDERAL law. Whether they are work or not has nothing to do with it. Illegal is still illegal. If some want to cause a problem, that is why we have shotguns.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe No one said that the round up would be instant. We are talking about practicality of the matter. It's not feasible and no one in the right mind would implement it. We only have 2 million in the prisons and you want the authorities to forgo their far vital priorities to chase a dish washer? And augment yet another 12 million to the prison system--remember, they are, as you like to put it, committed a "federal crime." Your solution is idiotic and stems from your misplaced rage.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Rage, I am not mad at illegals. I am mad at the liberal Democrats who think that they should be given a free pass and become citizens. I am mad at people who think we cannot catch and deport them. I am mad at people who think the safety and security of our country should be a political issue. I never said put all twelve million in prison. If they have committed crimes in this country, yes, they should go to prison. They should be forced to clean up the gulf to earn their keep.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe As I said, you're displaying too much rage for nothing. If path to citizenship is designed to be obtained after many years of continuous work while adhering to certain rules, I don't see a problem with it. Some of these people already been here for many years and if they abide to the set of rules and stay the course, acquiring citizenship after a dozen years is not an issue. Heck, it takes much less if they apply from overseas (I got mine after "12" years).
ninuxy 1 year ago
But the citizenship is the least of our worries. We need to convince them to get in line, register, and pay taxes accordingly. If you act like a run away sheriff, no one is going to come out of his/her woods. That's just the fact.
You are mad because your strategy is mindlessly conceived and has no base in reality. You cannot "catch" 10's of millions of people without ensuing some sort of mass hysteria and distort the economy because some dude is "mad." Please grow up and think this thorough.
ninuxy 1 year ago
The safety and security of the country would go up the flame if bunch of cowboys run around the country trying to "catch" a working man because it boosts their ego. You said they are "criminals" therefore, one can only speculate where you want them: prison. Do you think that worker who is busting his behind every single day from dawn to dust would feel "safe" to cooperate? Once again, your line of thinking is juvenile and ineffectual.
And "cleaning up the gulf?" What are you babbling about?
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy You are concerned about the illegals' situation. I am not. They choose to enter this country ILLEGALLY or to stay here ILLEGALLY. They are criminals, but that does not mean they have to go to prison. I don't care if they feel "safe". I want them to be scared and go back to Mexico. I want them to know that they cannot come here illegally and work because we will severely punish anyone who helps or employs them. This is how you fix the problem.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe That's because you don't see beyond your nose. You see solutions in "absolute"--in black and white. Only a reactionary resorts to this sort of school of thought. Yes, they came illegally, thank you for stating the obvious. Now step back and look at the bigger picture see how inane "your" solution is.
Stop kicking and screaming like a little child and have an ensemble of intellectual fortitude to examine various parameters in this equation.
ninuxy 1 year ago
You can't punish the businesses because then they country would suffer immensely as a result. We are in this too deep. You would choke an entire country because of your intransigent way of looking at this problem. You still not getting it, are you?
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy You liberals punish businesses ALL THE TIME! You never care what economic consequences are. If a business knowingly hires an illegal alien, they are breaking the law. In addition, they are exploiting the person.
These people do not come here all at once, and they will not all be deported at once. The fact remains we need to reverse the flow of them BACK the other direction. It is not impossible. It is quite doable if the political will exists to put Americans FIRST.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Who said I'm a "Liberal"? Stop assuming and start thinking. Of course they are breaking the law but so is putting a piece of candy in your mouth without pay for it--its significance pales compare to other "crimes."
If you care so much about the exploitation of workers, you wouldn't buy from companies who take advantage of third-world laborer, but you don't care. In your last response, you professed to the fact that you don't care about them. Now all of sudden you're bothered!
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I am concerned about the security of our nation. I am concerned that our government is allowing this problem to happen for political purposes. Stealing is STILL stealing. It is always WRONG. You will not solve this problem with good intentions. If you are NOT a liberal then STOP thinking like one. Stop thinking that we cannot secure our border or police our own country. We can do it if WE choose to.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy I hate to break it to you but somethings in life ARE absolute. I refuse to believe that this problem cannot be solved and that we must just give up and give in. We need to enforce our borders. We need to enforce our laws. Those who facilitate illegal aliens coming into this country need to be prosecuted to fullest extent of the law. That includes sanctuary cities. When a city is faced with losing it's state and federal funding, they will enforce the laws.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Ya, except that this is NOT one of those "absolute" moments. And I hate to break this to you, but this problem can be resolved except not your way.
If the current law is adequate and does not address the underlying problem with "sensible" solutions, then enforcing it won't yield any result. What is it with you and "sanctuary" cities? Drop the charade.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Enforcing the law is the sensible solution to the problem. Allowing cities to undermine the law is part of the problem. States that allow illegals to obtain a driver's license are the problem. The charade is that you care a wit about illegals. Your sensible solution is give up and just give them all amnesty. Rewarding crime only invites MORE CRIME.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy You are attempting to distort my position to make your point. No one said run around like a "sheriff". I said catch them and send them home. Stop providing sanctuary in cities and states. Stop them at the border. Punish those who hired them. This is not difficult or complicated. I am not mad. I get aggravated at politicians who LIE through their teeth when they say we cannot fix this problem. It can be fixed if you want to fix it.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Who's going to catch them? Local sheriffs? Do you have any idea what sort of force this requires to "round up" 10's of millions of people? No, you don't. You don't even bother to spend a few minutes to digest what a monumental task this would be. Not to mention the social, economical ramification of such action.
Securing the borders is only a "part" of the comprehensive measure to address the illegal aliens, not the ONLY solution. Try to understand.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I understand your tactic, but it just does not wash. First, I never said just secure the borders. However, we must secure them first. If a boat is taking on water, you FIRST plug the hole. Then you bail out the water! Otherwise, you exhaust yourself trying to stay a float. I also never said just "round up" the illegals. We cannot simply ignore the problem. We catch them every single day but we do NOTHING to send them back. We have cities that provide sanctuary for them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe And I understand your tactic: failing to see the "reality" of the situation.
Securing the borders "first" doesn't mean diddly squat if it is not implemented along other solutions. Your analogy doesn't stand the reality because it only takes in to account one issue among the landscape of problems.
What you propose is: 1) block the borders 2) chain the illegals 3) send ALL back. Very childish and warrant no rational response.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy You cannot accept it because it makes too much sense. Why does everything have to be complicated? Do you disagree with securing the border? If you agree, then let us take that off "the landscape" of problems. Until the border is secure, deporting them is useless.
When did I say "chain the illegals"? I said we need to stop supporting illegals with education, welfare, healthcare, and jobs. We need to stop cities from circumventing FEDERAL law by providing sanctuary for them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe If it had made so much sense, all the experts would have jumped on the ship already. Your solution is sophomoric and riddled with the grade school naivety.
You are not considering all the parameters and how they'd play out once dialed in different directions. It's a complex problem and you want to solve it by flipping one switch; it's not going to work my friend.
ninuxy 1 year ago
No one is opposing the idea of securing the borders but, first, not by militarizing the region, second it has to go in to effect along with many other provisions--it has to be a comprehensive solution which addresses the problem from various angles.
ninuxy 1 year ago
The problem with your solution is that you are focusing on the "deportation" which is not feasible at this stage. It's like asking to remove all guns and weapons off of all the streets and out of everyone's home (assuming 2nd Amendment is repealed). It's not going to work because it's been ossified in our society.
And that's exactly what I've been saying all along. If illegals want to stay here, let it be but under certain rules.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Deportation won't work at this stage. The only way to remedy this problem is through cooperation by the undocumented aliens. Provide them with worker's permit and set the rules for their limitations. Make them pay taxes. If they wish to use certain social programs, they have to pay in to it accordingly. Securing the borders and stream lining the process of worker's application and what not has to go along, hand in hand, with these residency plans.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy That is called surrender. I refuse to believe we need the criminals "cooperation" to enforce the law. What if they decide NOT to follow the rules? Who is going to enforce them then? We already know these people don't follow the rules to start with. You say deportation does not work, but give no reason why it doesn't work. It would work if we secured the border.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe You can think of them as "criminals," I would say Capitalism at its best: trying to find a cheaper way to do the same thing. Wal-Mart and many other conglomerate companies are doing it by outsourcing. So why not certain industries that want to provide a cheaper product by hiring a much needed work force that is just next neighbor.
Make them register by providing incentive to them to come out of wood works, then tax them properly. Everybody wins.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No one is suggesting that we cannot have guest workers.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe And no one said that you didn't agree with guest worker program. I said it's part of the comprehensive solution.
There would be limited deportation base on statues of the undocumented alien projected by the new law. There will NOT be a mass deportation due to the very simple fact that it is not practical and nor adheres to any rational course of action.
ninuxy 1 year ago
The last time, Reagan only granted everyone a citizenship without including other parts of the comprehensive resolution. If the law is broken, it doesn't matter whether you sanction it or condemn it--it's broken to begin with. And now, due to ignorance and lack of perception, you and your ilk want to turn the situation to a whole apocalyptic level of crapdom [sic].
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy The law is NOT broken. It is the enforcement of the law that has failed.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe If the implementation of the law is not possible, then it is a broken law.
And yes, the way I feel about him spending every second of his life in this country for a quarter of century is very pertinent to how I view him as my country man. If he fights for this country, even though he doesn't have a piece of paper to validate his citizenship statues, he IS my country man. You see the world in black and white but the world is a pied canvas. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, I am sorry for you. The world is the way it is, not the way you "wish" it was. The young man, regardless of your feelings, is an illegal alien. His parents broke the law and are also illegal aliens. We are not talking about a piece of paper but an objective FACT. The bad news is that you, and people like you have no understanding what it means to live in a nation of laws. Without the rule of law, we are doomed.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe The world is the way you "make" it to be. His parents broke the law. Why does he have to pay for it? He is more American than most so he must stay. This is his home. We are not talking about objective facts here but rather reality that dictates he has lived all his life here, period.
The problem with people like you is that you don't understand the meaning of a "broken law" and still echoing the same failed ideologies that have no merit in reality.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy It may be broken, but not in the sense that we need to give these people amnesty. Write a new law that is HARDER on businesses that employ them and states/cities that harbor them. Spend up the process of deporting them. Make the Arizona law NATIONAL.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe As I said, amnesty is "only" given to a number of these folks. Obviously, someone like the young guy I mentioned is a prime example to receive citizenship right away. Others are people who have lived here for a long time and are willing to register, pay proper penalties, stay and contribute for at least 10 to 15 years, then obtain their citizenship.
Giving out amnesty to "everyone" like the Reagan era is a mistake.
ninuxy 1 year ago
AZ law is absolutely useless and idiotic in nature. First, immigration is a federal law not the states'. The local law enforcement does not have the authority to conduct such operation. The judge that struck down the AZ law precisely argued that and the law makers are scrambling to rewrite that provision.
ninuxy 1 year ago
My problem with the bill is that it does not do anything to remedy the illegal workers dilemma. The law enforcement would be in hard position to make such arrests because in most cases, they would not have a "reasonable suspension" to deduct that the person has a legal or illegal statues. This leads to many law suits for wrongful arrests so the authorities wouldn't do as much as the bill's intent was designed for (to round up illegal aliens). We need a national and comprehensive measures.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy It does what it should do. When we have stopped someone for another offense, and there is a reasonable suspicion that they may be illegal, the officer should check their status. If they are found to be illegal, they should be deported. It ought to be the law of land everywhere.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy It cannot be illegal to enforce existing law. The judge is an idiot. The law is a directive to the police, not the illegals.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Right, no one disputes that the enforcement of the law is illegal. But that's not what's being debated here. The law is broken and cannot be enforced; it does not make sense and is not feasible. The spirit of the law in this case is broken hence the exigency to have a comprehensive and sensible in place. That's why we have amendments to remedy the old broken and not functional laws.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy How is enforcing the law "illegal"? I do not accept your premise that the law is broken and cannot be enforced. Failure do it does not mean it cannot be done. In fact, I think those that oppose the Arizona law does so because it will prove that IT CAN DONE. The intentional failure of the FEDERAL government to enforce the law and protect our borders is the problem. If they do not enforce the new law any better than the old, the rest will be the same as before.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Enforcing an unenforceable law might as well be voided. If it was feasible, the problem would have been resolved many decades ago. Stop pretending that the broken law is a nostrum to the current dilemma. It didn't work, and it would not work, period.
We must allow those who wish to become a permanent citizen, who are small percentage of illegals, under stringent rules, stream line the worker permits, then secure the borders. The latter will solve itself w/ a sensible law.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, I do not accept that premise. If we cannot make the old law work, then nothing will change with a new law. Breaking the law requires punishment. You are deluded if you think rewarding illegals is going to result in less illegals. Your plan relies on those who are here illegally to turn themselves in and follow "stringent rules". These people are not big on rules, remember! If only a small percentage accept the offer, What do you plan to do with the 10's of thousands who DON"T
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy Why would he get citizenship right away? Why should he get it before someone who came here legally and has followed the law? These illegals are NOT going to pay any fines or wait 10-15 years. If they were willing to do that they would have come over legally. No amnesty at all. Send them home first and then determine which would be allowed back in based on the value they bring to our country.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Why would he get a citizenship right away? Oh gee, I don't know, maybe because he has spent his ENTIRE life in this country since he was a month old. He has already part of the fabric of this society,assimilated culturally and socially, and is contributing to the economy by actually working.
Your problem is that you refuse to put things in perspective. First of all, he didn't come here on his own; he was "a month" old when his "parents" brought him here.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Second, he's been here all along; there is no other country for him. He doesn't know how to function or doesn't have the necessary tools to operate in another "foreign" country. For you to act like a bully to advance your crippled and not-so-well-thought-out agenda at the expense of his "life" is nothing short of your nefarious character. We are not talking about someone who stumbles in to this country last month. Are you even following the parameters of the argument? I guess not.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Wait a minute! Is he or is he not an illegal alien? This is not a matter of opinion or even subjective. He is an illegal alien. His parents are illegal aliens. If you send them back together, he will learn to live. If he wants to come back, he can immigrate legal like everyone else. He should receive NO SPECIAL treatment. He should not benefit from his or his parents' crime.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe We are not disputing his legal status and we went over this many times but your sleight-of-mind hinders your cognitive functionality to see this beyond a "black and white" issue and that's sad.
Send him back where? His parents are no longer alive and you want to send a 25-year-old to some "foreign" country!!! Where's your head? Buried in zealotry and single mindedness? Sorry to hear that.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Why not? He received 25 years of benefits at the expense of the American taxpayer. He can be returned to his own country, and if he wants to come back and live, DO IT LEGALLY.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy Why should he get citizenship right away? Why should he be rewarded for his parents' crimes and our failure to enforce the law? Why should he be given what others who followed the law have yet to receive? Is he actually working? How is he working if he is not legal? Fraud? Identity theft? Does rewarding him with citizenship invite others to come to our country illegally with young kids so that they will be rewarded in a few years? You are letting your emotions run wild.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Because he has lived in this country since the day he was born. If he was a year old, I would have suggested to look in to other circumstances whether the baby (and its family, if there is any) should be allowed to stay or sent back to the country of origin. But in this case, he has lived since day one for quarter of century in this country. He is an American, perhaps more than you and your sense of self-righteous entitlement. Where is your common sense?
ninuxy 1 year ago
And for your gratuitous question, yes, he is been working for a decade, contributing to the society. You constantly view people like him as "criminal" while they are merely trying to make a living. It's not his fault his parents brought him here when he was a baby.
Again, you are viewing this in a singular prism. You cannot lump his circumstance with an illegal immigrant who is the MS-13 gang member. At this juncture, it is his right to be a citizen and anyone with common sense sees that.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, he has no right to be a citizen. He is old enough to know he is here illegally. He knows he is working under a false identity. He is a criminal by his own actions. You cannot magic dismiss decades of illegal status and the associated crimes involved. Just because he is not MS-13 does not make him any less a criminal for breaking our laws.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe He's actually not working under a false identity. A lot of these people pay state taxes and do carry a valid driver license. States have different regulations. You see, you call someone like that guy, who is a hard working, honest individual, a "criminal" and expect others to respect your views. You are far mistaken. As a matter of fact, his "white American" girlfriend is helping him to get his citizenship papers in order. Too bad you won't shake his hand when he gets it.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy You must have a social security number to work and pay taxes. Since he was not born HERE, he does not have a legal SS number. This is fraud. He is not an honest individual if he is committing fraud. The color of his girlfriend's skin is not relevant. The facts are relevant. Too bad the rule of law does not matter to people like you. The judge should lock him up and deport him back to his birth country. As long as we are handing out citizenship to illegals, they will come.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy He is not an American. He is an illegal alien. This is not debatable. This is a fact. He is not entitled to anything. He has lived here illegally, worked here illegally, and receive an education here illegally. No matter how long he has been here, it has been illegally. To grant his citizenship disrespects ALL THOSE who did it legally.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy It is perfectly rational. These people have broken the law. They have violated the borders of our nation. Regardless of their motives or intentions, they broke the law and here illegally. There is not going to be a "mass" deportation because you will not catch them in "mass". However, if you get serious about enforcing the existing law, you can and will send a lot of them home. This must be coupled with securing the border to KEEP them there.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe The law that itself is broken cannot be broken. Read the fine print. As far as "they" being here illegally, that is a true statement. But it doesn't change the fact that your solution leads to more disastrous outcome rather than alleviating the situation.
The enforcement of the law that itself is broken doesn't yield to the positive result. I would like to have most of them registered and provide incentive to do so, one being provide a reasonable path to citizenship.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy So your solution is to reward their crime with an incentive to be "registered" and ultimately grant them citizenship. How does this NOT encourage more illegals to come over the border?
What is this "disastrous outcome" you keep harping about? Fewer people using public welfare is "disastrous"? Fewer people driving around our country with no auto insurance or even a legal license is "disastrous"? Fewer children in schools consuming the resources and demanding an education is bad?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe The "reward" you are so haphazardly throwing around is only going to be granted to a small percentage since 1) most don't want to stay here other than work for a period of time then go back 2) those who wish to stay would have to go through a lot before such "reward" given to them.
This discourages others to come here "illegally" and encourages them to get a working permit and come here "legally." You see the difference?
ninuxy 1 year ago
Fewer people would be using public welfare "without" paying in to it. If we get them to register and pay taxes, then it wouldn't be a burden, would it? If we get them to be on the working visa, then they pay insurance and pay property taxes. How do you get to accomplish that? NOT by using your methodology.
Businesses need them and they've been already ossified in the society. Your means of dealing with this issue is irrational.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy "IF" is a game for children. You will NOT get them to register. They will not come forward to be registered unless they are going to get amnesty.
Businesses use them but do not NEED them. If we need them, we can allow greater numbers to come here LEGALLY after we send the illegals home. You are simply wrong about this. Send them home will raise wages and decrease unemployment.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe If the incentives are right, yes, many will come forward and register. As I said, I've personally asked almost 100's of these people whether they wish to stay, and almost 95% have scoffed at me, indicating no. Very few set up shop here and hire the rest.
How on earth raising wages would decrease the unemployment? If I have to pay 10% more to my employees, either I have to raise the prices, lose customers, or lay off a few personals. Where's the logic in that?
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I don't hold with bribing people who break the law to obey the law. Sending them all home and let those who want to comeback do so.
If you send illegals homes, employers would have to hire Americans to do the work. This would mean they would have to pay a wage that Americans would accept. Workers then spend their wages, and economic activity increases. If you already pay your workers a fair wage, you would not be affected. Illegals send their wages home to Mexico.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Your plan is just plain stupid and not well thought out, period. You've sitting on your porch, assuming the world operates in black and white--it doesn't. If sending them "all" was an option, I wouldn't hesitate to support it; unfortunately, this does not match with the reality of the situation. You can kick and scream all you want and cry foul, but it doesn't change the fact that the opposition proposal considers these issues at hand--yours does not.
ninuxy 1 year ago
No, if you send all illegals home--which is not possible--American businesses will go out of work, hire half or less than number of undocumented workers, their insurance premiums will skyrocket, and eventually they have to jack up prices which hurt the consumers' bottom line and in return, the consumers will spend less and the snow ball down the hill effect will take its hold--the economy will suffer even further. You don't know diddly squat about the ramification of your proposal.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Your myopic understanding of how a business is run is very telling. Where does the business find an "extra" money, due to hiked wages, to pay the newly hired "American" employees? Capital doesn't just grow out of the thin air. It has to have a higher profit on return to justify such wages. In such uncertain times, a business will not start hiring workers with far more higher wages and "magically" maintain the same price tag for its consumers. Your inverted logic don't pass a grade school biz 101
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I do not accept your premise that illegals are essential to our economy. Will capturing and deporting illegals affect our economy? Most certainly! ALL Insurance premiums will GO DOWN. Illegals don't pay insurance premiums of any kind, yet they cause accidents and receive medical care. This drives up costs and increases premiums. People are unemployed NOW and people are spending less. We need jobs. We need more Americans working. Prices going up in not always a bad thing.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy I obviously understand more about how the world operates than you do. I work in the real world with real people. I understand that we are not going to round them "all" up in one day or even that we will eventually get them "all". However, you must start with the ability to enforce WHATEVER law you have or new law you write. If you begin with the premise that we do not have the ability to enforce the existing law, what makes you think you will magically have to enforce the new law?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe I'm sure you do, that's why you are on YouTube 24/7 spewing sophomorically failed arguments. And I never said the deportation is an instant procedure but rather an impractical and detrimental to the economy. Such strategy requires a complete lock down of the entire country and borders; it would yield in social unrest and agitation of masses. For crying out loud, we can't even round up all the gang members in one state, let alone 10's of millions of working people.
ninuxy 1 year ago
You refuse to see this issue beyond your nose and constantly pandering to your own sense of God knows whatever. You have suspended the rationality. The law is ill-equipped to handle the current situation. If it wasn't, then the last 4 decades, through various administrations, it would have been resolved--but it did NOT for it's not feasible. Try to understand the facts.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, you are not going to convince me that we CANNOT find and deport the vast majority of these illegals. We have yet to make a serious effort at dealing with the issue for political reasons. We don't need more sickly, uneducated, welfare dependent individuals. The fact is these are potential and actual Democrat voters we are talking about. Giving them amnesty hurts everyone except the politicians for whom they will someday vote.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe I don't have to convince you a bit; the last 40 years have been a salient proof that the current law is ineffectual and impotent in implementation--that's the given and proven fact. It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it will not work in the future either. The sooner you realize that, the sooner we look for more comprehensive measures to address the issue. You refusal is simply stymieing the valued efforts to take the country to the right direction and it's sad.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy What is the right direction? Surrender our borders and the rule of law to an illegal mob! The law does not work because NO ONE IS ENFORCING IT. When the federal government is standing in the way of a state simply trying to protect it's own people, THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy I do not accept that it cannot be done or that it would lead to "social unrest and agitation of masses". Deportation is not impractical. It happens every day, just not enough of it. It would not require a "complete lock down" of the country, only of the borders. There is no reason why we cannot secure our borders. Once that is effectively accomplished, you start sending these people home. They are not that hard to find if you really want to find them.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Oh you better believe that it will lead to some dire consequences socially and economically. It's like announcing there are 12 million gang members, look into the kitchen where you are being served, look at the houses that are being built, smoke them out, seine the criminals...
The very large percentage of the deportations take place at the border and rightfully so but a collective effort to round up 12 million+ people, including children, is just not practical.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy You say that but it is simply NOT true. We do not have to catch and deport ALL 12 million in one day. We do have to secure the border FIRST. If your boat is sinking, you must plug the hole FIRST, then bail out the water. No one said they were all gang members. They are ALL here illegally. Once you start seriously catching and deporting them, many will return on their own in the hopes that they may return legally. Those caught and deported would go to the back of the line.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe What on earth do you do on YouTube 24/7? Frankly, with "not" so busy life of mine, I don't get to spend every second here. What do you do for living? Are you unemployed? Need to work on your resume? Seriously man, every time I response, you are at it within minutes. What gives?
ninuxy 1 year ago
I didn't contrive that the deportation occur in a single day. But rather, the effect and social unrest that it will ensue if every law enforcement is all of a sudden given an order to run around, pursuing these "criminals," then the social unrest will surely ensue not to mention the economical damage that it will be inflected on the country.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Do you seriously think you are the only smart cookie who has ever thought of departing ALL the illegals? No, you are not the first but the fact remains that the old law does NOT work and the result is very much tangible. Realize your mistake and strive to amend it.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Surrender is only foreseeable when we continue on the path of wrong strategy that is being espoused by the "deportation-for-all" tent. I offered a more sensible solution on multiple occasions. If you stream line the workers permit, which will encompasses a very large majority of the illegals and offer path to citizenship for a few who are willing to play by the set of rules to obtain their permanent statues, then securing the borders would be a much easier task.
ninuxy 1 year ago
The law is not being enforced because it is not enforceable. If it was, then we wouldn't be in this dilemma, would we? Why are you being so intransigent regarding facts? Immigration is a federal issue not the state and for a good reason. The problem lies in a fact that the current laws, economical and immigration wise, are not adequate to address the current circumstances, hence the continual failure of its objective.
ninuxy 1 year ago
I do not know the exact detail of his documentation, but if he has obtained an illegal SS number, it doesn't change the fact that he's been paying in to "it" and pay taxes. For crying out loud, he's running a business and has 2 other "American" employees. To me rule of inadequate law doesn't matter and the reality of the day backs my sentiment. If tomorrow the law dictates ALL illegals get their citizenship (a law that I do not support on face value), you could too disagree with its spirit.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Again, you are attempting to justify a crime by the surrounding circumstances. I disagree with rewarding him for the fraud and deception. The law is not the problem. It is the enforcement of the law that is a failure. I am not advocating even throwing him in jail, which he deserves, but simply deporting him. Such a smart guy would be able to come back legally if he really wants to.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, it is not being enforced because the government is looking the other way. Democrats want these new citizens voting for them. They want them legalized. Immigration is a federal issue. Breaking the law is a local, state, and federal issue. Entering the country illegally is a crime, not immigration.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe You are so blind. It's the Republicans backed by the business community that wishes the illegals to stay; it's good for business, it's good for customers. It's the same economical parallel between the companies who outsource portion of their operation overseas because country B does it better or cheaper. It's just how the economy demands it. You are outsmart on this one my friend.
So go ahead, be a "crime fighter" for the rest of us. Be a cowboy and round them up. *yawn*
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy I am not blind at all. I could care less who backed what before, Democrat or Republican. It is not the same "economical parallel" because one is legal and the other is ILLEGAL. Illegals costs this country HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars every single year. Enforcing the law does not make one a "cowboy". The rule of law is what makes our country what it is. It is a simple problem that requires a simple straightforward solution. Secure the border and send them home.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe You are trying to solve the equation for an unknown element that is not even there.
You are simply misinformed about the issue. Don't think for a moment I wish a guy to come here, gets sick, gets hospitalized for 2 years in ICU and costs the hospital millions which comes out of taxpayers' pocket. I want them to come here legally for work and pay their due.
ninuxy 1 year ago
But the problem is that they are already here and there is nothing you can do to round them up. The most sensible solution is what I've stated which makes them to register as a temp worker legally.
As I said, you are misguided about the net worth of their presence here. If illegals were taking more than what they put in, as you falsely claim, the entire business community would be up and armed to throw them out and so were the politicians.
ninuxy 1 year ago
It's as idiotic as saying Wal-Mart outsourcing of jobs "costs" us more. Well, if that was the case, then prices would obviously wouldn't be cheap, would they? Their outsourcing is bringing prices down which helps Americans buy more, grease the economy, create "better" paying jobs in return. It has always worked that way. There are losers in between but a country would benefit as a whole.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Wal-Mart does not outsource jobs. They provide value to their customers. To argue that we need an underpaid, exploited class of illegal workers to make our economy work is simply wrong. Every worker needs to have the protections of the law by being legal themselves. If wages need to come up then let them come up. If price need to rise, then let them rise. The cost of health insurance and health care will go down. The cost of car insurance will go down. It all balances out.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Wal-Mart does not outsource jobs? What planet have you been spending your time on? They have been coercing their suppliers to ship manufacturing and whole host of other jobs to overseas to maintain their low prices, then you tell me they do not outsource jobs?
Buddy, sorry to break it to you, but it seems like you don't even possess a rudimentary understanding of corporate world. I don't know what you've been doing all your life, but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.
ninuxy 1 year ago
If they are not underpaid, you wouldn't be able to afford a house in such low price which means the builder wouldn't develop and 80 other subcontractors, suppliers, and economical chain of reactions would have to be halted.
The housing industry is a vital part of any economy. You don't just feed the chain I described above but rather, when someone buys a house, he buys a furniture, a TV which needs a DVD player, kitchen supplies, you name it, the whole economy rolls on it.
ninuxy 1 year ago
By no means I dispute that a worker must have some protection under the law which is exactly why I strenuously hope that the new comprehensive measures provides them with some. It's good for business, it's good for economy. And above all, I want to have a sensible tax structure levied for what they do, so they don't turn out to be a burden on society.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Yes, there are illegals who are sucking resources out of the rest of the country. You have hospitals who have to pay millions to take care of an illegal in ICU for years. That's not fair to the citizens of this country. There are districts that are overrun by illegal children taken space in classrooms. I don't oppose them to be educated but their parents MUST pay their share through taxes.
ninuxy 1 year ago
There are many ways to hamper their practice of taking advantage of system. The system is actually in place believe it or not; it just requires a new law to "wire" them together which would effectively cut off funding (of any sort) to people who are here illegally. Don't confuse this part with people who just come here to work. I'm talking about folks who take from the social programs because of their children. That part can actually be limited to them effectively.
ninuxy 1 year ago
You are dead wrong about the cost of health care and reflexively, cost of health insurance. Health care is a monster of its own that needs to be examined differently from any other industry. It's the same misguided understanding of what "motivates" the industry to continue to be costly that makes people believe they can lower the health care expenditure, but that's another issue.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No law can provide a person who is illegal with any legal protections.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy Sure I could afford a house! I would pay more, but my costs would be lower in other areas. Trust me, there would be people take the jobs if we simply stopped paying people to do NOTHING. Our economy does not need illegal to make it work.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy What their suppliers do is not the same as Wal-Mart doing it. If a domestic supplier has the right price and quality, I am sure Wal-Mart would go with them. There is nothing wrong with giving the consumer a good price.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe Wal-Mart coerces its suppliers to move their operations to overseas in order to maintain lower cost--it's a well documented phenomenon. They have an economical clout to do it or else the supplier would be dropped. This in effect has resulted in millions of jobs being shifted overseas.
The domestic supplier would have no chance of competing against a Chinese manufacturer which pays 30 times less to its overworked employees with no benefits.
ninuxy 1 year ago
And that's exactly what my point was. The same way Wal-Mart's action is resulting in jobs being lost here, the gain would be the rest of the country be able to afford certain products with lowered prices. Same with the illegal workers; there a "demand" for prices to be lowered, hence the employment of undocumented workers. I guess that obvious escaped you.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Sorry, there is no comparison. Wal-Mart is NO BREAKING THE LAW. Illegal aliens ARE BREAKING THE LAW. Illegals cost this country BILLIONS of dollars every year. You cannot make a case for the exploitation of illegals as being a good thing for our economy. I do not dispute that removing them from the economy would some impact. However, the MARKET would compensate for the effect. Some wages would go up. Some business would innovate to eliminate the need for the cheap labor.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy You are still blaming the wrong people. Wal-Mart sells products. Suppliers supply those products. Wal-Mart cares only about making a profit. Where those products are made is off no concern them IF they are of the same quality and cost. Your issue is with the Chinese government and their labor practices, not ours. Still, one needs to wonder why a product can be made their better and cheaper, then SHIPPED here, and sell for a lower cost than an American made one.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@ninuxy Again, I do not accept your premise that there is "nothing you can do to round them up". It can be done if we really want to do it. This is the real reason behind the opposition to the AZ law. It would prove that it can be done, and the federal government cannot allow that to be proved.
I am not misguided about their net worth. They cost us far more than they bring to the table. If they did not work the jobs, somebody else would. The economy would not suffer at all.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe No, the opposition to the AZ law, at least speaking for myself is, it's just a stupid law that foster prejudice (not to be confused with racism). It does nothing to remedy the problem even if you see it as a tool to advance "your" method of dealing with the illegal immigrants.
ninuxy 1 year ago
First, it requires the law enforcement to stop the law breakers for some violation. Then they have to have a "probable" cause to go from that violation to ask the law breaker for his legal status which would be a very rare. No officer would want to waste his time dealing with legal status of someone when he has to deal with so many other issues at hand. Second, the department would probably have to deal with avalanche of law suits as this strategy would nab many innocent people.
ninuxy 1 year ago
Wow, you don't know diddly squat about how labor market works, sorry to say that. Your responses is a clear indicative of simpleton mind. It's about the demand and supply. You should read more about companies' adaptability to ration work force before making a such crass comment.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy No, I have a solution that actually solves the problem rather than perpetuates the problem. Tell me if we do everything you have advocated, and say 1 million of the 12 million step up, what do we do with the other 11 million who remain illegal? What are you willing to do then about enforcement?
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe If the new comprehensive law is designed to accommodate their demand, we wouldn't be worrying about those "remaining 11 million" and obviously if we got to that point, then the alleged new law would be a failure too--you are arguing to hypothetical.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Your solution rewards them for their illegal activity and disrespects those who have followed the law. It would invite more illegals to come thinking they would stand a better chance than doing the process legally. If you want more worker permits, fine, give them to those who come LEGALLY.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago
@CommonSenseJoe My solution is the only solution because it would stream line the workers to come here, work, pay their share due of taxes, and move back to their country. A small percentage who wish to stay and follow a long list of rules to obtain the citizenship are welcome to do so. You are viewing the world in black and white, my way or the highway--that attitude has no place in the real world, sorry to break the ice for you here.
ninuxy 1 year ago
@ninuxy Your whole solution is premised on the voluntary compliance of those who have already demonstrated their disregard for the law. It won't work just like all the other times we have tried this "pathway to citizenship" nonsense. If we cannot catch them NOW, what makes you think you would be able catch them THEN? Without enforcement, NO LAW works. That is the real world.
CommonSenseJoe 1 year ago