Desktops are for the budget conciouse but for high performance you would go with a workstation all it is is a high end desktop. Unfortunatly Dell likes to thing there completly different, they even say so in there vidoe's, of course I disowned Dell's long ago because of resones similare to that.
I had a desktop... top of the line at best buy a year ago... Im in school for 3D modleing, I was running 3Ds Max two monitors and a youtube video....CRASH, motherboard is mess up now...I looked into a few machines went with a Dell T7500 workstation. Has a xeon and dual quadro 4000 I should not have a problem now LOL.
@ Everyone - For those that are interested in video editing, purchase as much computer as you can afford. I actually bought an HP- 2.50 ghz quadcore, 8 GB ram, 1.5 gb Nvidia graphics card and it still takes forever to render w/ Adobe CS4. From what I gather and researched, the issue is not processor speed, but RAM. I am currently looking at a system from HP - 3.46 ghz six core, 24 GB ram, 3.0 gb Nvidia graphics card. I hope this one fix my rendering problems. Also, I hope that info helps someone
@mnash3 It's worth looking into GPU based rendering too, like the Elemental CUDA H.264 codec within Adobe Media Encoder. Shove an NVIDIA GPU in there with a bunch of CUDA cores to get as much out of it as possible. It's amazing how much faster it renders things than pure CPU.
@TalesOfWar - Thanks for the feedback. So far, my new computer has the Nvidia with 1.5 GB of dedicated memory, but the rendering times are still horrible. As an aside, the regular rendering tends to be okay, but if I work in After Effects, you can forget it. Render times horrible. I have used H.264 before, but I will take a second look and research the CUDA codec. Thanks for the feedback. Mark
@mnash3 After Effects does not use CUDA. Its only uses the GPU for some effects, but its limited to only timeline previews. Exporting the final composition is all done on the CPU.
You also said that you run CS4. Unfortunately, CS4 does not have any GPU feature. You'll need to upgrade to CS5 in order to take advantage of the newly implemented Mercury Playback Engine. Even then, a CUDA supported card will only be used for playback, and offloading some effects to the GPU for final rendering.
@ShepperdOneill - Thanks for the feedback. It will likely be cheaper for me to upgrade to CS5 then it would be to purchase a new computer. Also, thanks for the clarification on CUDA as it relates to playback as my issue is primarily rendering times. Thanks again. Mark
I enjoyed the video. I agree. The decision to purchase a workstation should be governed by purpose of the equipment. I found an HP desktop that should be able to do the video editing & rendering at good speeds for $3,500, but when I looked at the workstation for similar specs, it was a minimum of $8,000. I do not need the scaleability or the 24/7 uptime so the desktop is the better deal for budget & specific purpose.
I used to work as a Cad system engineer 10 years ago and the silly money people pay for a quadro 6000 card 6gb of ram 384 bit pci card cost 4110 quid - there no reason for that card to cost that much it's marketing business hype - a i950 + a decent motherboard + 6 giga of ram for 1000 quid to actually make. people wake up and smells the roses of workstation marketing at work.!!!!!
your can build decent i7 systems 1500 quid max - rather then a workstation. Takes the graphics cards to do sli or crossfire etc - now a system fails - it takes 10 minutes to change parts. so buying a workstaion for 4500 is so off the scale. xeon is an excuse to charge silly money for a workstation. as an system engineer workstation fails just the same as any computer.
My WoW is running 24/7, and it's really important!!
XD
But seriously, when would it be better to buy a Firepro graphic card rather than a Radeon HD? I mean wouldn't you also be able to edit video like a pro with a 5970?
My XW8600 workstation has 4 300gb 15,000rpm sas drives in a raid config. Raid built into the motherboard. When you click on my computer, you see the space as 1 hard drive. Most desktops run on a single 7200rpm hard drive. It's like Comparing a walmart lawnmower (desktop) to a John Deere tractor (workstation) Also, 16 fbdimm slots with the memory riser option. 128gb memory max. Try fitting a quadro fx 5800 and a tesla card in a desktop. Really?? Don't forget the redundant power supply too.
Dude... are you a car salesman? You said the same ONE thing like over and over as if it were all NASA classified and super important... and it all came across as babbling about something your not even sure of yourself.
I'm building a PC for 3D. I'm using Autodesk Maya, I was going to buy a dual cpu, but a single cpu is closer to my price range. I'm considering either Xeon W3680 or an I7 980x. What would do a better job?
@bumtownv2 i7 definitely for the price. To be honest there is very little difference between the two. If you still aren't sure, try looking up i7 vs xeon in google or something. BTW there is i7 vs xeon in the related videos.
Extremely fascinated by what you said. I knew there was a difference between a workstation and a PC. I kinda thought it had to to with stability and its ability to remain up for extended periods of time. Thank you for this explanation.
im going to be making movies with hollywood type camcorders. what should i invest in? a fast desktop or a workstation? there wont be any special effects i just need something that will encode shit and export shit fast in adobe cs5.
@YouBumAssNigga for cost, desktop and i say that because its an intel world right now for what you will be doing and there is not much of worth in the hardware you will be needing to do what you stated. Get a a great mobo with high bus speeds and a chip not based on cores but the core technology in how ram is addressed and how fast . Then get the most channels of ram that you can and add as much ram density IE more storage of ram per channel to max performance within your budget.
@UnemployedLaotianGuy Any modern card will do. You don't have to put in a quad-SLI-setup if your workstation's software does not support CUDA (etc.). If you're gonna work with GPU-enhanced/accelerated software, a SLI-setup will, of course, perform better. You need to to what you're going to do with your workstation before buying it.
@mrbit10 very good information. However i want to ask. I want to upgrade my motherboard and CPU system from Opteron to Xeon. But I do not have the funds to purchase a dual socket motherboard. I will be using this new system when completed for 3d animation and digital compositing. I use nividia quadro fx cards as well. I know there are boards that can support both i7 or xeon cpus. From what you explained- is it better to get a single Xeon x5680 or i7 980x for the long run of 4yrs?
@mrbit10 hey mrbit, just wanted to ask you if you know of any good sites to shop for motherboards that can take i7 and xeon cpus. i've been looking all over but all i keep finding is i7 vs xeon forums.
The reason is that for now i just need small time desktops that could possibly be used as servers. So i want to be able to kill two birds.
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
Mr. Bit10, you are very knowledgeable and it's great having you on Youtube. People here always try to convince me that their gaming consumer desktop is so much better than any Mac Pro. I have an older Mac Pro and it never crashes on any of my Adobe CS4 Suite applications. And it's still a fast machine comparable in performance to the newest Mac and PC consumer desktops, but with far better stability and reliability. You are 100% right and you know your stuff. Thank you for a great video.
Oh and Mr.Bit is right I went over it with the guy when I bought Snow Leopard. Look I know you guys make awesome machines and the mac pro is very expandable but I do not have the money nor a requirement for workstation class hardware. For a Quad Core i'm going to run it into the ground until I can get a job and enough money for such things.
@sn0le Dude you put a tear in my eye I'm also in that category. I built my PC to learn workstation tasks and get better at it at my own pace. Now I'm a mac head as in not a hipster who actually uses OS X's frameworks like Quartz. Well of course I used to before I get this hackintosh running, I need way more storage and ram first. I built a PC because I had not built one yet and I needed the experience anyways. Regardless of what anybody says I built that thing to learn and work with.
@sn0le Please remember that the last Mac Pro revision was in 06, it was at the top for it's time.
I have the HP Z800 that can support 190GB+ ram, can support the latest intel CPUs such as the i7.
I Bought the PC Workstation because of the ram and what cpu, gfx card, whatever I needed could be used.
But most importantly I do a lot of intensive stuff so even as an individual I need to be able to run it with out fail( I've had Crisis warhead + 13 Photoshop CS4 + Maya + cinema 4d etc) NO CRASHES
Mac Pro 4.1 is the latest revision, and it came out in March 2009.
They are very well-built, from an engineering standpoint. Quality is high.
I would say the same for the Z800. Well built machine.
But a machine built with professionals in mind does cost alot, and it is a question if a regular Joe like my self even should invest in such a machine.
I've built my custom i7 rig, and have used it for months. Running BOINC at least 16-17 hours a day, using all rescources. Rock solid.
@MysticTrunksHQ Not true Sir. The last Mac Pro revision was in early 2009 when they put Xeon 5500 series Nehalem processors in them and fully buffered DDR3 RAM. That last revision is on top of any benchmark scores, especially in the 8-core configuration. 2009 Mac Pro rules all of them.
Long video but... I agree, seriously I watched the people I think who you talk about, and you manage to bring this finally to a really logical and well pose argument about what they were arguing :) + Ive learn alot :d tHX
There is an infinite amount of computer configurations, and so it is impossible for there to be a single computer that will work perfect for every situation. The 'best' computer is relative on your specific needs and preferences. What is best for me, may not be for anyone else.
My philosophy is to have as many tools in my toolbox as I can stuff in there. Those who limit themselves to one type of hardware, software or brand, are fools.
It seems my 2nd vanished but i also believe ecc ram isn't that important but i think thats what you're hinting at. the chance of signal degradation in hardware imo would be quite rare to warranty it, but maybe definitely in a server where i think it'd be needed when you're running the thing 24/7 & uptime is all important + the content being served is dynamic i.e no way on the client side content can be verified for integrity once response is sent.
not really, when memory is at a large scale it becomes an issue. if its just 4 gigs, meh it can happen, but it then would have to be pushed and uptime become the factor.
How is the mips designed to handle a large amount of instructions when it''s risc? It's assembly instruction set is quite small & limited due to this.
I kind of agree & disagree with you. Can you compare a station to a desktop? Yes. Depending on the task & this is the thing that a desktop can do all alot of the jobs a station can (like scaling as you said) & in that case having a station is overkill.Thats what i'm arguing to get the functionality of desktops your only choice is a pro with apple.
I agree and I will make mention of this in my next video.
In theory if I installed a $350.00 SCSI SATA RAID card and an $850.00 Decklink card in my system $600.00 system. I would infact have a better video editing workstation then the Mac Pro. The extra hardware installed would trumph the ECC RAM and Xeon CPU. ECC RAM is helpful but the again so is a dedicated RAID card and video card for video editing.
I do think Mr bit is hinting that ECC RAM is great for a select few.
I am a RISC fan all the way, i actually cannot stand x86, RISC was designed with far more registers and most super computers use RISC, its downside is its expense. x86 only later adopted many features from RISC but must still use to translate complex instructions using uOPS a feature of decode x86 adopted from RISC.
the comparing is spec for spec, what you should argue is need or use. A desktop cannot scale as high as a workstation but you are looking at it from a consumer point of view. When i did projects with IBM, the amount of traffic and data that went through and scale needed, could not be accomplished with a desktop. That said I agree it is the choice in products we have limits to with Apple in the Pro line
I agree mrbit. I think we shoud maybe consider my $1000.00 system a desktop workstation. I would also think that the Mac Pro would also fit that category. I say this because the Mac Pro woud not make for a highend server either.
You know, i'm thinking more and more you just want to defend the fact you like to buy cheap, which is fine with me. Just accept a Mac Pro isn't in your price range, but don't keep coming with shit like "my 1000 dollar system is equal to a desktop workstation".
You doe realize I could build a Xeon based system for $1000.00 don't you? It would not have the RAID system at that price but it would still be just as good as the Mac Pro you idiot.
What good is a Xeon based CPU and ECC RAM if the system drops frames?
seriously man, you're asking me if I get it? Go make a video to show me your Xeon based system that's "just as good as the Mac Pro" for 1000 dollars. Now! Show me!
hmmm, well the way ddr3 gets its commands is different but it could use an AMB but the traffic pattern would be different because the signal passes all dimms form one side to the other so the AMB would be on one side of the dimm vs center.
conceptually, when we want to access the memory @ 0xabcdf89 (logical addressing scheme), how does the memory controller know which dimm to send the commands to? How does it really work? Thanks
on start the controller creates the addressable range, then the OS creates Virtual space, this is what programs have available that correspond to a physical location. The Virtual address sends the appropriate information down, the controller than knows which cells to go to because it already made the range before the OS set its range based on what was left from start up.
1 bit, but data requests are made in bytes or even larger so 8 bits or 8 capacitors to fill in memory, a capacitor can only two results on or off thus 1 bit.
I think you meant to say transistor. Well, since we're talking about DRAM, capacitors are involved b/c a DRAM cell is implemented using one transistor and one capacitor. (DRAMs are periodically refreshed). When it comes to this kinda stuff (hardware)I have parts/bits & pieces of the picture.
ok the transistor acts as a switch the capacitor is the "bucket" that holds the electrons. Yes it must constantly refresh because each transistor/capacitor loses its charge constantly, so the controller has a large job in this.
"on start the controller creates the addressable range," that's incredibly fast then. If I understand correctly, the memory controller creates a logically addressable memory table which maps each byte to the corresponding 8 bits.
yep there is a table and the OS must then take which addressable range is left to it or its loader it runs on and then programs use a virtual address from then on.
Okay, you said that the xeon can scale with other physical CPUs, but the one I was talking about does *not* scale with other CPUs, the W3520. You cannot have two W3520s in a dual-socket motherboard and have them both work; that's reserved for the W5XXX series - which, to me, the W3520 doesn't really target that professional workstation audience you're talking about. Maybe a casual workstation audience?
Yeah I was talking to you :P I commented about it in another vid and I did that as a "just in-case" thing if you read it. Just ignore that part otherwise.
But yeah, all the W3520 really has is the ECC and no dual-processor support, so it seems more casual to me. You'd think the point of a workstation would *be* scalability, but it could be for those just getting into it, perhaps.
I will never need a workstation. I would like to ask anyone, why you would need one at home? I'm very curious.
and BTW ... about the "mid-tower" Mac idea that's been tossed around for the last few years ... why hasn't Apple made one yet? Are they geared toward the common person, and if you are in to tech, you have to buy a Pro? There is a good market of "mid-towers" ..I just don't get it.
I think mrbit is hinting that the XEON with ECC is not needed for most of us viewing this video.I agree. This includes emeek, macward and sven88bac.
Keep in mind the Mac Pro is second class compared to the Blade system. The Mac Pro is no competion for the rackmountable Single Board Computers but who needs a sinlge board computer system? The Mac Pro does not even have hardware RAID or a hot swappable power supply. Do any of us need a hot swappable power supply?
This is why I like your videos. You actually show us something in the whole, but don't condemn us every two minutes for not using a certain product (a mac usually). Also, cool Razer mouse over there. >:)
Not all Xeon processors are able to scale with others. The 3500-series only works in single processor configurations. (The series used in the Mac Pro quad-core).
no one ever mentions the fact that the mac pro is using 2 CPUs so the heat is spread out more, and also the fact that the mac pro's heat sink is massive as well has the fan, great video.
Mactard66's mac pro has 2 dual core CPUs, a true quad core will run hotter naturally, I'm agreeing with you that the temperature challenge people do is pointless and that your computers OWN all, one man should not have so much power. A decent temp challenge for people to do is how much lower then the maximum operating temperature does a CPU run.
I think some type of line in that sand should be drawn to say you computer is a "workstation" if you have at least the following:
Xeon CPU, ECC memory/upgradeable to at least 16GB, Tool less internal case, RAID 0,1,5 (10 & JBOD optional), HDD's are SATA or SAS and lastly the optical drive is DVDRW.
Any video card is fine as long as it has dual video ports(for dual monitors), HDMI port, OpenGL 2.0, Direct X 10 and 512MB on the card.
Yeah, like i said, i like your animation, so i can see how you won.
I always think it's cool when i meet people that won awesome stuff. One guy I know entered a game dev contest and won a Unity Pro license ($1500) when he was like 15 or something. There's also a rumor that the developers of unity offered him a job and he turned them down flat.
That's the story. I heard about it from a friend of mine that is part of the Unity DEV community. The guy is some kind of a genius.
I mean, he taught himself how to program and his first ever pencil drawings are freaking mind blowing for a first try. He's on youtube. his username is Youngmaker.
You can play his game, a FPS called Megapixel, on shockwave. Also, he made a short demo with the help of an artist called Avert Fate, which is available on Unity's website.
My video could only be ten minutes long. I will show the HP xw 4600 system based of the X38 chipset. They are indeed basic Core 2 Quads with standard DDR2. In an nut shell it is only slightly better than my MOBO yet HP considers it a Workstaion. You can go to HP website and see for yourself.
Mrbit,
I am not arguig with you. I am saying that the word workstation is a marketing tool.
My next video will just be a little bit more information that I think you will agree with.
Mrbit too mentioned that "there are workstation that are sold, with the name "workstation", we all agree that companies are trying to use it as a marketing tool.
the xw4600 uses ECC DDR2 but no xeon, so this if maxed to 16 gig, the ECC would be a benefit, if only left at 4 gigs, then it is a waste. The chip is not going to scale but it seems to be entry level, as the next one up is a xeon. ECC is not end all be all, i prefer it also have Registered or Buffered especially for DDR2
:P this is not like the set osx free issue, its more of an Intel issue, only using ECC non buffered to me is wasting a perfectly good Xeon chip. no buffers and no other friend CPUs to talk to, just use a standard i7, you do not have to call it a mid-tower.
They don't use FB RAM because the memory controler on the CPU itself does that task now, making it more efficient (in theory) as it doesn't have as far to travel down the data pipes. They still use ECC though, that's yet to be implemented onto the memory controler itself, maybe next generation? Who knows.
actually any memory controller would appreciate an assist, using AMBs is the way to go but expensive. Remember there is a memory controller on all computers whether it is located on the CPU or NB is moot to the point of having serialized intelligent routing on FBs
Emeek thinks he can build a custom PC equivalent to the all in one. They are different form factors entirely. Does adobe PC need a workstation? Thats really the question. Who does need a workstation. In all honesty I don't think its fair to compare a workstations to a custom build or a custom build to an imac. They have advantages to each of them and disadvantages as well, they are too unique to really compare.
What you say here zoul is correct, but the fact remains that AdobePC stated HIMSELF that he could build a Mac Pro (workstation) for less than 1000 dollars. It's that statement I keep repeating until adobePC admits that he was wrong.
I wont disagree with you on this as I do not think someone should be comparing a workstation to a custom PC. However emeek has done so several times in his videos. To say adobepc is wrong here is incorrect. Emeek has at least 2 videos comparing systems to each other. One in which he compares a mac pro to a gaming rig.
I can build a graphics workstaion for $1000.00 to compete aganist the Mac Pro hands down. I am not building a server workstaion for youtube. The Mac Pro would not be a wise choice for that task either.
There a reasons to get the Xeon. I have stated if you need to support multiple CPUs then the Xeon is needed. Using a Xeon for the single Quad Mac and ECC RAM is a waste of money for most people. Mrbit did not say it but he is kind of implying it. Will Apple offer a $950.00 AMD desktop system?
No, you can't. The display alone will cost the best part of if not all and more of that budget. Never underestimate the importance of a good monitor. That's as important if not more important than the rest of the system. You could have a slow peice of crap that just about runs Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and whatever else you need, but if your display shows the wrong colours then you're quality of work is going to suffer greatly because of it.
Dude, you are preaching at me for no reason so please stop it!
I use an NTSC monitor with my workstation if you had watched my vidoes you would now this. The workstation is usually just the computer system although you can include the decks and audio gear. My editing suite does have a dedicated NTSC monitor along with some studio grade audio equipment.
My system is not the best but it works OK for now.
That NTSC monitor does not equal a professional graphics level monitor. You need an IPS display, PVA at least for proper accurate colour reproduction, plus the extra resolution. Your set up may be fine for audio work, obviously colour accuracy isn't really important there, or some basic level video work, but professional graphics (and video) work requires a proper monitor that can produce real to life colours as accurately as possible.
For video editing you neeed the NTSC monitor. Even a computer monitor with IPS is not wise. Why? Your computer monitor is RGB. Also your computer monitor can not interlace either. The VGA previews for Avid, FCP and even Premiere only play about 15 FPS on the VGA monitor as oppose to 60 fields per second for NTSC. Your colors will be accurate if you use an NTSC monitor but also your speed changes like slow motion and fast forward will be much better on the NTSC monitor.
because there is no mid-tower between the iMac and the Mac pro. There is no choice from apple that equals that of a Custom PC. it goes from "all in one" to "Workstation". So comparing to the iMac is as close to accurate as you can get.
Both are wrong in all honesty. Even in my early videos I never compared an standard custom PC to a mac pro. All custom builds had the exact same specs if possible.
I do understand everything mrbit stated you do not.
Mrbit is admiting in this video the a Xeon CPU and ECC RAM may not be wise for a sinlge Quad Core system. Do you need ECC RAM and a XEON CPU or would your money be better invested in an i7?
I think it woud depend on what you're using the system for. If I was building a dedicated server workstation Vs. a graphics workstation my shopping list at newegg would change. Would yours? If not why?
I understand your choice to build your own desktop, but realise you've built a desktop and thus not a workstation. It seems to me you see your desktop as a graphics workstation? I hope you don't because you don't own a workstation.
If you don't need Xeon CPU and ECC RAM, that's fine with me, but don't talk crap to everybody about your desktop being EQUAL to a 2500 dollar WORKSTATION.
Actually mrbit is admitting that the hardware is getting better and the lines are getting blurred. I have indeed let my Celeron CPU render for 3 days straight. Once the rendering was done I could start to edit again with out rebooting the system. Some one mentioned in another forum thread that some servres are running with out ECC RAM.
Keep in mnd mrbit stated some of the money goes to the fancy case. I agree. The Mac Pro is not $2499.00 worth of computing hardware.
those that do run non-buffered, NECC, or not registered are not true servers. If they buy a xeon or server chip without some sort of buffer/control on memory, they are shooting themselves in the foot. yes the fancy case and tooless ability to upgrade memory is worth it in a big roll out, i remember big rollout i was part of with continental airlines.
The Mac Pro offers more than just $2499 of specs. It offers premium quality case (strong aluminum), an unmatched airflow, Mac OS X and all the awesome software you get when buying a Mac.
If you build a PC yourself, you'll have to buy all that software yourself. Windows alone will cost you like 300 to 400 dollars.
In essence a workstation is similar to a server. A server does a specific job/task or various jobs/tasks without very little down time. It's a workhorse rather than a speeding rabbit. You add enough horses and you trample the rabbit.
It's interesting that you mentioned SGI. SGI is w/o a doubt a pioneer. For the last 4-5 years (roughly), the company is not doing too good and I believe it has do with their prices and their competition. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, hollywood block busters all used sgi 3d workstations (MIPS).
in short people...
Workstation is a more reliable PC.
Its more of a standard than a type.
coolbuddydude1 2 days ago
you just caused another argument. which caused LOTS OF LONG comments :)
germas369 2 weeks ago
THIS HAS BEEN A VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEO THANK YOU MY FRIEND.
Gumblert 1 month ago
Great information thanks for uploading this! :)
mrIpodmagic 5 months ago
PFFFFFT no comment
mack44halo3 6 months ago
Great info , good arguments thanks a lot!
MRWLN20 7 months ago
Desktops are for the budget conciouse but for high performance you would go with a workstation all it is is a high end desktop. Unfortunatly Dell likes to thing there completly different, they even say so in there vidoe's, of course I disowned Dell's long ago because of resones similare to that.
MrTpengineer 7 months ago
This video is really helpful and very full of info, thing is, you say everything so slow. speak a little quicker and it'll be a lot easier to watch.
xBlizzDevious 9 months ago
I had a desktop... top of the line at best buy a year ago... Im in school for 3D modleing, I was running 3Ds Max two monitors and a youtube video....CRASH, motherboard is mess up now...I looked into a few machines went with a Dell T7500 workstation. Has a xeon and dual quadro 4000 I should not have a problem now LOL.
prodigyset420 10 months ago
Extremely well said and clearly explained
thedarkhenrik 10 months ago
@ Everyone - For those that are interested in video editing, purchase as much computer as you can afford. I actually bought an HP- 2.50 ghz quadcore, 8 GB ram, 1.5 gb Nvidia graphics card and it still takes forever to render w/ Adobe CS4. From what I gather and researched, the issue is not processor speed, but RAM. I am currently looking at a system from HP - 3.46 ghz six core, 24 GB ram, 3.0 gb Nvidia graphics card. I hope this one fix my rendering problems. Also, I hope that info helps someone
mnash3 1 year ago
@mnash3 It's worth looking into GPU based rendering too, like the Elemental CUDA H.264 codec within Adobe Media Encoder. Shove an NVIDIA GPU in there with a bunch of CUDA cores to get as much out of it as possible. It's amazing how much faster it renders things than pure CPU.
TalesOfWar 9 months ago
@TalesOfWar - Thanks for the feedback. So far, my new computer has the Nvidia with 1.5 GB of dedicated memory, but the rendering times are still horrible. As an aside, the regular rendering tends to be okay, but if I work in After Effects, you can forget it. Render times horrible. I have used H.264 before, but I will take a second look and research the CUDA codec. Thanks for the feedback. Mark
mnash3 9 months ago
@mnash3 After Effects does not use CUDA. Its only uses the GPU for some effects, but its limited to only timeline previews. Exporting the final composition is all done on the CPU.
You also said that you run CS4. Unfortunately, CS4 does not have any GPU feature. You'll need to upgrade to CS5 in order to take advantage of the newly implemented Mercury Playback Engine. Even then, a CUDA supported card will only be used for playback, and offloading some effects to the GPU for final rendering.
ShepperdOneill 8 months ago
@ShepperdOneill - Thanks for the feedback. It will likely be cheaper for me to upgrade to CS5 then it would be to purchase a new computer. Also, thanks for the clarification on CUDA as it relates to playback as my issue is primarily rendering times. Thanks again. Mark
mnash3 8 months ago
Hi Mrbit10,
I enjoyed the video. I agree. The decision to purchase a workstation should be governed by purpose of the equipment. I found an HP desktop that should be able to do the video editing & rendering at good speeds for $3,500, but when I looked at the workstation for similar specs, it was a minimum of $8,000. I do not need the scaleability or the 24/7 uptime so the desktop is the better deal for budget & specific purpose.
Thanks again for the video.
Mark
mnash3 1 year ago
I used to work as a Cad system engineer 10 years ago and the silly money people pay for a quadro 6000 card 6gb of ram 384 bit pci card cost 4110 quid - there no reason for that card to cost that much it's marketing business hype - a i950 + a decent motherboard + 6 giga of ram for 1000 quid to actually make. people wake up and smells the roses of workstation marketing at work.!!!!!
theapeman10 1 year ago
your can build decent i7 systems 1500 quid max - rather then a workstation. Takes the graphics cards to do sli or crossfire etc - now a system fails - it takes 10 minutes to change parts. so buying a workstaion for 4500 is so off the scale. xeon is an excuse to charge silly money for a workstation. as an system engineer workstation fails just the same as any computer.
theapeman10 1 year ago
My WoW is running 24/7, and it's really important!!
XD
But seriously, when would it be better to buy a Firepro graphic card rather than a Radeon HD? I mean wouldn't you also be able to edit video like a pro with a 5970?
Hokrollo1 1 year ago
My WoW is running 24/7, and it's really important!!
XD
Hokrollo1 1 year ago
My XW8600 workstation has 4 300gb 15,000rpm sas drives in a raid config. Raid built into the motherboard. When you click on my computer, you see the space as 1 hard drive. Most desktops run on a single 7200rpm hard drive. It's like Comparing a walmart lawnmower (desktop) to a John Deere tractor (workstation) Also, 16 fbdimm slots with the memory riser option. 128gb memory max. Try fitting a quadro fx 5800 and a tesla card in a desktop. Really?? Don't forget the redundant power supply too.
chrisdildilio 1 year ago
Dude... are you a car salesman? You said the same ONE thing like over and over as if it were all NASA classified and super important... and it all came across as babbling about something your not even sure of yourself.
HoodaThunket 1 year ago
I'm building a PC for 3D. I'm using Autodesk Maya, I was going to buy a dual cpu, but a single cpu is closer to my price range. I'm considering either Xeon W3680 or an I7 980x. What would do a better job?
bumtownv2 1 year ago
@bumtownv2 i7 definitely for the price. To be honest there is very little difference between the two. If you still aren't sure, try looking up i7 vs xeon in google or something. BTW there is i7 vs xeon in the related videos.
BigdogWitBigdog 1 year ago
The work station as we know it will soon be a relic as we move more towards cloud computing or PC over IP
robw1031 1 year ago
Extremely fascinated by what you said. I knew there was a difference between a workstation and a PC. I kinda thought it had to to with stability and its ability to remain up for extended periods of time. Thank you for this explanation.
honitsten 1 year ago
im going to be making movies with hollywood type camcorders. what should i invest in? a fast desktop or a workstation? there wont be any special effects i just need something that will encode shit and export shit fast in adobe cs5.
YouBumAssNigga 1 year ago
@YouBumAssNigga for cost, desktop and i say that because its an intel world right now for what you will be doing and there is not much of worth in the hardware you will be needing to do what you stated. Get a a great mobo with high bus speeds and a chip not based on cores but the core technology in how ram is addressed and how fast . Then get the most channels of ram that you can and add as much ram density IE more storage of ram per channel to max performance within your budget.
mrbit10 1 year ago
@mrbit10 How about the video card? Which do you reccomend? thnx
UnemployedLaotianGuy 1 year ago
@UnemployedLaotianGuy Any modern card will do. You don't have to put in a quad-SLI-setup if your workstation's software does not support CUDA (etc.). If you're gonna work with GPU-enhanced/accelerated software, a SLI-setup will, of course, perform better. You need to to what you're going to do with your workstation before buying it.
DaDeceptiveOne 1 year ago
@mrbit10 very good information. However i want to ask. I want to upgrade my motherboard and CPU system from Opteron to Xeon. But I do not have the funds to purchase a dual socket motherboard. I will be using this new system when completed for 3d animation and digital compositing. I use nividia quadro fx cards as well. I know there are boards that can support both i7 or xeon cpus. From what you explained- is it better to get a single Xeon x5680 or i7 980x for the long run of 4yrs?
shinjide213 1 year ago
@shinjide213 both are fine at 4 years, i would spend the $ on vid and other equipment used for vid composting, so go with the cheaper route on CPU
mrbit10 1 year ago
@mrbit10 Thanks for the advice. appreciate it.
shinjide213 1 year ago
@mrbit10 hey mrbit, just wanted to ask you if you know of any good sites to shop for motherboards that can take i7 and xeon cpus. i've been looking all over but all i keep finding is i7 vs xeon forums.
The reason is that for now i just need small time desktops that could possibly be used as servers. So i want to be able to kill two birds.
Randomkaoz 11 months ago
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
TheAndemas 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
TheAndemas 6 months ago
@YouBumAssNigga normally most things you find on the workstation market is available also in the desktop market for example a gtx 580 3gb would easily beat the best quadro card, and also would be more up-gradable paying less than a third of the value the basic difference between those desktop and workstation solutions is the reliability and consumption(the best things of the workstation cards). but as long as money and performance are concerns get a desktop.
TheAndemas 6 months ago
booooooring!
asdfgh451 1 year ago
Xeon quad-cores Hands down......
gatler05 1 year ago
Mr. Bit10, you are very knowledgeable and it's great having you on Youtube. People here always try to convince me that their gaming consumer desktop is so much better than any Mac Pro. I have an older Mac Pro and it never crashes on any of my Adobe CS4 Suite applications. And it's still a fast machine comparable in performance to the newest Mac and PC consumer desktops, but with far better stability and reliability. You are 100% right and you know your stuff. Thank you for a great video.
Coilaman 1 year ago
Right on Thank you for setting the record straight.
Iezoyi 2 years ago
Oh and Mr.Bit is right I went over it with the guy when I bought Snow Leopard. Look I know you guys make awesome machines and the mac pro is very expandable but I do not have the money nor a requirement for workstation class hardware. For a Quad Core i'm going to run it into the ground until I can get a job and enough money for such things.
darkmaster5 2 years ago
Btw, before someone attacks me for that $1000 Xeon Custom PC comment.
I am VERY aware that a custom built PC with a W3520 isn't automagically (no I did not mean automatically) become a Workstation.
I am not a professional. I do not make a living of what I do on my computer.
So I can do with a custom PC instead of a Workstation.
And for me the price of that custom PC is within my limited budget.
Call me cheap all you want. I just don't feel the urge to spend ALL my money on a computer.
sn0le 2 years ago
@sn0le Dude you put a tear in my eye I'm also in that category. I built my PC to learn workstation tasks and get better at it at my own pace. Now I'm a mac head as in not a hipster who actually uses OS X's frameworks like Quartz. Well of course I used to before I get this hackintosh running, I need way more storage and ram first. I built a PC because I had not built one yet and I needed the experience anyways. Regardless of what anybody says I built that thing to learn and work with.
darkmaster5 2 years ago
1. The Quad Mac Pro is a Workstation-wannabe. All it has is the Xeon that offers support for EEC-RAM.
It can't run on a dual CPU setup.
And it maxes out @ 16GB RAM. Which is little by todays standards.
Building a $1000 PC with the same Xeon-chip that the Quad Mac Pro has, is absolutely possible. The W3520 cost just $30 more than an i7 920 or 860.
@mrbit10:
Did you see the rumours that next gen Mac Pro will use i9?
Think it will happen, or will they have Xeon-versions of the i9?
sn0le 2 years ago
@sn0le Please remember that the last Mac Pro revision was in 06, it was at the top for it's time.
I have the HP Z800 that can support 190GB+ ram, can support the latest intel CPUs such as the i7.
I Bought the PC Workstation because of the ram and what cpu, gfx card, whatever I needed could be used.
But most importantly I do a lot of intensive stuff so even as an individual I need to be able to run it with out fail( I've had Crisis warhead + 13 Photoshop CS4 + Maya + cinema 4d etc) NO CRASHES
MysticTrunksHQ 1 year ago
@MysticTrunksHQ:
Mac Pro 4.1 is the latest revision, and it came out in March 2009.
They are very well-built, from an engineering standpoint. Quality is high.
I would say the same for the Z800. Well built machine.
But a machine built with professionals in mind does cost alot, and it is a question if a regular Joe like my self even should invest in such a machine.
I've built my custom i7 rig, and have used it for months. Running BOINC at least 16-17 hours a day, using all rescources. Rock solid.
sn0le 1 year ago
@MysticTrunksHQ Not true Sir. The last Mac Pro revision was in early 2009 when they put Xeon 5500 series Nehalem processors in them and fully buffered DDR3 RAM. That last revision is on top of any benchmark scores, especially in the 8-core configuration. 2009 Mac Pro rules all of them.
Coilaman 1 year ago
Great vid 5/5
RickArter 2 years ago
Long video but... I agree, seriously I watched the people I think who you talk about, and you manage to bring this finally to a really logical and well pose argument about what they were arguing :) + Ive learn alot :d tHX
MertonDingle1111 2 years ago
Excellent points sir!
There is an infinite amount of computer configurations, and so it is impossible for there to be a single computer that will work perfect for every situation. The 'best' computer is relative on your specific needs and preferences. What is best for me, may not be for anyone else.
My philosophy is to have as many tools in my toolbox as I can stuff in there. Those who limit themselves to one type of hardware, software or brand, are fools.
TheOnlyKingArthur 2 years ago
I didn't think that some members here would erupt like that!
MichaelCast1 2 years ago
Yay, Cosmic rays!
hal970fx 2 years ago
It seems my 2nd vanished but i also believe ecc ram isn't that important but i think thats what you're hinting at. the chance of signal degradation in hardware imo would be quite rare to warranty it, but maybe definitely in a server where i think it'd be needed when you're running the thing 24/7 & uptime is all important + the content being served is dynamic i.e no way on the client side content can be verified for integrity once response is sent.
codebean 2 years ago
not really, when memory is at a large scale it becomes an issue. if its just 4 gigs, meh it can happen, but it then would have to be pushed and uptime become the factor.
mrbit10 2 years ago
How is the mips designed to handle a large amount of instructions when it''s risc? It's assembly instruction set is quite small & limited due to this.
I kind of agree & disagree with you. Can you compare a station to a desktop? Yes. Depending on the task & this is the thing that a desktop can do all alot of the jobs a station can (like scaling as you said) & in that case having a station is overkill.Thats what i'm arguing to get the functionality of desktops your only choice is a pro with apple.
codebean 2 years ago
I agree and I will make mention of this in my next video.
In theory if I installed a $350.00 SCSI SATA RAID card and an $850.00 Decklink card in my system $600.00 system. I would infact have a better video editing workstation then the Mac Pro. The extra hardware installed would trumph the ECC RAM and Xeon CPU. ECC RAM is helpful but the again so is a dedicated RAID card and video card for video editing.
I do think Mr bit is hinting that ECC RAM is great for a select few.
adobePC 2 years ago
I am a RISC fan all the way, i actually cannot stand x86, RISC was designed with far more registers and most super computers use RISC, its downside is its expense. x86 only later adopted many features from RISC but must still use to translate complex instructions using uOPS a feature of decode x86 adopted from RISC.
mrbit10 2 years ago
the comparing is spec for spec, what you should argue is need or use. A desktop cannot scale as high as a workstation but you are looking at it from a consumer point of view. When i did projects with IBM, the amount of traffic and data that went through and scale needed, could not be accomplished with a desktop. That said I agree it is the choice in products we have limits to with Apple in the Pro line
mrbit10 2 years ago
I agree mrbit. I think we shoud maybe consider my $1000.00 system a desktop workstation. I would also think that the Mac Pro would also fit that category. I say this because the Mac Pro woud not make for a highend server either.
adobePC 2 years ago
You know, i'm thinking more and more you just want to defend the fact you like to buy cheap, which is fine with me. Just accept a Mac Pro isn't in your price range, but don't keep coming with shit like "my 1000 dollar system is equal to a desktop workstation".
Sven88bac 2 years ago
Sven88bac/Asshole.
You doe realize I could build a Xeon based system for $1000.00 don't you? It would not have the RAID system at that price but it would still be just as good as the Mac Pro you idiot.
What good is a Xeon based CPU and ECC RAM if the system drops frames?
Do you finally get it dude??????????
Apple is ripping you off!
adobePC 2 years ago
hahahaha
seriously man, you're asking me if I get it? Go make a video to show me your Xeon based system that's "just as good as the Mac Pro" for 1000 dollars. Now! Show me!
Sven88bac 2 years ago
OK Dude!
adobePC 2 years ago
"You should argue use rather than specs"
Amen to that, by the way.
Perhaps they could have a FB-DDR3? That might be interesting.
apocalypseap 2 years ago
hmmm, well the way ddr3 gets its commands is different but it could use an AMB but the traffic pattern would be different because the signal passes all dimms form one side to the other so the AMB would be on one side of the dimm vs center.
mrbit10 2 years ago
Hi mrbit10,
conceptually, when we want to access the memory @ 0xabcdf89 (logical addressing scheme), how does the memory controller know which dimm to send the commands to? How does it really work? Thanks
nawkwan 2 years ago
on start the controller creates the addressable range, then the OS creates Virtual space, this is what programs have available that correspond to a physical location. The Virtual address sends the appropriate information down, the controller than knows which cells to go to because it already made the range before the OS set its range based on what was left from start up.
mrbit10 2 years ago
"the controller then knows which cells to go to ..." does each cell store a bit or a byte of data?
nawkwan 2 years ago
1 bit, but data requests are made in bytes or even larger so 8 bits or 8 capacitors to fill in memory, a capacitor can only two results on or off thus 1 bit.
mrbit10 2 years ago
I think you meant to say transistor. Well, since we're talking about DRAM, capacitors are involved b/c a DRAM cell is implemented using one transistor and one capacitor. (DRAMs are periodically refreshed). When it comes to this kinda stuff (hardware)I have parts/bits & pieces of the picture.
nawkwan 2 years ago
ok the transistor acts as a switch the capacitor is the "bucket" that holds the electrons. Yes it must constantly refresh because each transistor/capacitor loses its charge constantly, so the controller has a large job in this.
mrbit10 2 years ago
@mrbit10 2 Xeon's ftw imo, dont you agree. They own I7 :)
gatler05 1 year ago
"on start the controller creates the addressable range," that's incredibly fast then. If I understand correctly, the memory controller creates a logically addressable memory table which maps each byte to the corresponding 8 bits.
nawkwan 2 years ago
yep there is a table and the OS must then take which addressable range is left to it or its loader it runs on and then programs use a virtual address from then on.
mrbit10 2 years ago
Okay, you said that the xeon can scale with other physical CPUs, but the one I was talking about does *not* scale with other CPUs, the W3520. You cannot have two W3520s in a dual-socket motherboard and have them both work; that's reserved for the W5XXX series - which, to me, the W3520 doesn't really target that professional workstation audience you're talking about. Maybe a casual workstation audience?
apocalypseap 2 years ago
is this directed to me? I do not recall a vid or comment where you had a specific comment on a xeon.
mrbit10 2 years ago
Yeah I was talking to you :P I commented about it in another vid and I did that as a "just in-case" thing if you read it. Just ignore that part otherwise.
But yeah, all the W3520 really has is the ECC and no dual-processor support, so it seems more casual to me. You'd think the point of a workstation would *be* scalability, but it could be for those just getting into it, perhaps.
apocalypseap 2 years ago
well there are "workstations" sold as such that are not buffered or NECC and such of which i would take issue.
mrbit10 2 years ago
I will never need a workstation. I would like to ask anyone, why you would need one at home? I'm very curious.
and BTW ... about the "mid-tower" Mac idea that's been tossed around for the last few years ... why hasn't Apple made one yet? Are they geared toward the common person, and if you are in to tech, you have to buy a Pro? There is a good market of "mid-towers" ..I just don't get it.
ThingsontheWeb 2 years ago
Other than developers of course.
ThingsontheWeb 2 years ago
I think mrbit is hinting that the XEON with ECC is not needed for most of us viewing this video.I agree. This includes emeek, macward and sven88bac.
Keep in mind the Mac Pro is second class compared to the Blade system. The Mac Pro is no competion for the rackmountable Single Board Computers but who needs a sinlge board computer system? The Mac Pro does not even have hardware RAID or a hot swappable power supply. Do any of us need a hot swappable power supply?
adobePC 2 years ago
This is why I like your videos. You actually show us something in the whole, but don't condemn us every two minutes for not using a certain product (a mac usually). Also, cool Razer mouse over there. >:)
RPCJerkobi 2 years ago
Not all Xeon processors are able to scale with others. The 3500-series only works in single processor configurations. (The series used in the Mac Pro quad-core).
manjyoumethunder 2 years ago
lol Emeek owned!
ReeshTV 2 years ago
Then there was Mrbit and he OWNED them All. :)
garethhallnz 2 years ago
wow! i actually learned something! xD very nicely explained! i really like this video, unlike someone else's vids *cough* applesoldier *cough*
you really should post videos more often :)
xoANONiMUSox 2 years ago
no one ever mentions the fact that the mac pro is using 2 CPUs so the heat is spread out more, and also the fact that the mac pro's heat sink is massive as well has the fan, great video.
aussie114 2 years ago
not all pros have two cpus, what do you mean more spread out? As in the load gets balanced?
mrbit10 2 years ago
Mactard66's mac pro has 2 dual core CPUs, a true quad core will run hotter naturally, I'm agreeing with you that the temperature challenge people do is pointless and that your computers OWN all, one man should not have so much power. A decent temp challenge for people to do is how much lower then the maximum operating temperature does a CPU run.
aussie114 2 years ago
I live in Australian the worlds biggest BBQ on the menu humans, I can't do temp challenges :(
aussie114 2 years ago
I think some type of line in that sand should be drawn to say you computer is a "workstation" if you have at least the following:
Xeon CPU, ECC memory/upgradeable to at least 16GB, Tool less internal case, RAID 0,1,5 (10 & JBOD optional), HDD's are SATA or SAS and lastly the optical drive is DVDRW.
Any video card is fine as long as it has dual video ports(for dual monitors), HDMI port, OpenGL 2.0, Direct X 10 and 512MB on the card.
vwbond 2 years ago
I agree. I think we need the terminology desktop workstation Vs. server workstation. In my opinion the Mac Pro is a desktop work station.
adobePC 2 years ago
Good vid mrbit.
Ive got the skulltrail setup in my workstation, (dual Core2 Quad's, FBDIMM's).
I suppose its the best of both worlds. (EEC FB RAM with a mainboard and CPU's that are unlocked.)
And I agree, a lot of these arguments are ridiculous.
ShepperdOneill 2 years ago
wait, I thought you had Dual Nehalem?
So you have Dual Harpertown?
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Yes, Dual QX9775's (Harpertown)
ShepperdOneill 2 years ago
Cool.
Weren't skulltrail rigs expensive tho?
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Yes. Big time expensive!
I only have this one because I entered a animation contest and won it.
ShepperdOneill 2 years ago
Yeah, like i said, i like your animation, so i can see how you won.
I always think it's cool when i meet people that won awesome stuff. One guy I know entered a game dev contest and won a Unity Pro license ($1500) when he was like 15 or something. There's also a rumor that the developers of unity offered him a job and he turned them down flat.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Turned them down?? Thats crazy.
ShepperdOneill 2 years ago
That's the story. I heard about it from a friend of mine that is part of the Unity DEV community. The guy is some kind of a genius.
I mean, he taught himself how to program and his first ever pencil drawings are freaking mind blowing for a first try. He's on youtube. his username is Youngmaker.
You can play his game, a FPS called Megapixel, on shockwave. Also, he made a short demo with the help of an artist called Avert Fate, which is available on Unity's website.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
ShepprdOneill,
The animation I viewed for Snapple was very good.
adobePC 2 years ago
Thanks!
ShepperdOneill 2 years ago
I do like FB tech, they just need to make better AMBs
mrbit10 2 years ago
Mr Bit has, unequivocally, delineated desktop vs. workstation/server platforms in this video. Good job.
nawkwan 2 years ago
Not by HP standards. I have a new video that should be up Thursday.
adobePC 2 years ago
what do you mean not by HP standards?
mrbit10 2 years ago
My video could only be ten minutes long. I will show the HP xw 4600 system based of the X38 chipset. They are indeed basic Core 2 Quads with standard DDR2. In an nut shell it is only slightly better than my MOBO yet HP considers it a Workstaion. You can go to HP website and see for yourself.
Mrbit,
I am not arguig with you. I am saying that the word workstation is a marketing tool.
My next video will just be a little bit more information that I think you will agree with.
adobePC 2 years ago
Mrbit too mentioned that "there are workstation that are sold, with the name "workstation", we all agree that companies are trying to use it as a marketing tool.
nawkwan 2 years ago
I know but there will be more to my video than the xw 6400 systems.
adobePC 2 years ago
the xw4600 uses ECC DDR2 but no xeon, so this if maxed to 16 gig, the ECC would be a benefit, if only left at 4 gigs, then it is a waste. The chip is not going to scale but it seems to be entry level, as the next one up is a xeon. ECC is not end all be all, i prefer it also have Registered or Buffered especially for DDR2
mrbit10 2 years ago
I agree with most of the video, right up until you started talking about a midtower Mac.
Pretty good video all the same.
dragonballjiujitsu 2 years ago
:P this is not like the set osx free issue, its more of an Intel issue, only using ECC non buffered to me is wasting a perfectly good Xeon chip. no buffers and no other friend CPUs to talk to, just use a standard i7, you do not have to call it a mid-tower.
mrbit10 2 years ago
Would they not then put themselves in direct competition with every other OEM?
dragonballjiujitsu 2 years ago
well they are now, but i see your point and its still an apple.
mrbit10 2 years ago
i still cant believe, the new mac pros dont use FB RAM !
DRBUK 2 years ago
they can't, because of a limit set by Intel. Don't blame Apple.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
oh im not blaming anyone i just said i cant beleive it.lol. ye i wonder why intel did that, be interesting to see the case for that.
DRBUK 2 years ago
They don't use FB RAM because the memory controler on the CPU itself does that task now, making it more efficient (in theory) as it doesn't have as far to travel down the data pipes. They still use ECC though, that's yet to be implemented onto the memory controler itself, maybe next generation? Who knows.
TalesOfWar 2 years ago
actually any memory controller would appreciate an assist, using AMBs is the way to go but expensive. Remember there is a memory controller on all computers whether it is located on the CPU or NB is moot to the point of having serialized intelligent routing on FBs
mrbit10 2 years ago
good vid, VERY well explained :)
AmH032uTuBe 2 years ago
Thank you Mrbit. I really AdobePC will eventually understand this, and admit that his 1000 dollar custom PC does not equal a 2500 dollar workstation.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
@Sven88bac
You missed the point of Mr. Bits video entirely didn't you?
zoulkyud 2 years ago
What did I miss zoul? Please explain.
adobePC thinks his desktop is equal to a workstation. He's wrong. I hope he ever understand, but I doubt it.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
Actually adobePC said he could build a workstation as good or better than the Mac pro for around $600.
dragonballjiujitsu 2 years ago
lol, hes an idiot
macward66 2 years ago
@Sven88bac
Emeek thinks he can build a custom PC equivalent to the all in one. They are different form factors entirely. Does adobe PC need a workstation? Thats really the question. Who does need a workstation. In all honesty I don't think its fair to compare a workstations to a custom build or a custom build to an imac. They have advantages to each of them and disadvantages as well, they are too unique to really compare.
zoulkyud 2 years ago 4
What you say here zoul is correct, but the fact remains that AdobePC stated HIMSELF that he could build a Mac Pro (workstation) for less than 1000 dollars. It's that statement I keep repeating until adobePC admits that he was wrong.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
I wont disagree with you on this as I do not think someone should be comparing a workstation to a custom PC. However emeek has done so several times in his videos. To say adobepc is wrong here is incorrect. Emeek has at least 2 videos comparing systems to each other. One in which he compares a mac pro to a gaming rig.
zoulkyud 2 years ago
Both are wrong. Emeek should not be comparing a mac pro to a gaming rig, and adobe pc should not be saying he can build a Mac Pro for $600 bucks.
dragonballjiujitsu 2 years ago 3
Listen zoul, i don't care what Emeek said or did. I'm talking about adobePC. Let's stick to the subject, will you.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
@zoulkyud
Exactly. So why does almost every PC fan I have ran into try to compare a mid tower PC to the iMac?
dragonballjiujitsu 2 years ago
I can build a graphics workstaion for $1000.00 to compete aganist the Mac Pro hands down. I am not building a server workstaion for youtube. The Mac Pro would not be a wise choice for that task either.
There a reasons to get the Xeon. I have stated if you need to support multiple CPUs then the Xeon is needed. Using a Xeon for the single Quad Mac and ECC RAM is a waste of money for most people. Mrbit did not say it but he is kind of implying it. Will Apple offer a $950.00 AMD desktop system?
adobePC 2 years ago
No, you can't. The display alone will cost the best part of if not all and more of that budget. Never underestimate the importance of a good monitor. That's as important if not more important than the rest of the system. You could have a slow peice of crap that just about runs Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign and whatever else you need, but if your display shows the wrong colours then you're quality of work is going to suffer greatly because of it.
TalesOfWar 2 years ago
talesofwar,
Dude, you are preaching at me for no reason so please stop it!
I use an NTSC monitor with my workstation if you had watched my vidoes you would now this. The workstation is usually just the computer system although you can include the decks and audio gear. My editing suite does have a dedicated NTSC monitor along with some studio grade audio equipment.
My system is not the best but it works OK for now.
adobePC 2 years ago
That NTSC monitor does not equal a professional graphics level monitor. You need an IPS display, PVA at least for proper accurate colour reproduction, plus the extra resolution. Your set up may be fine for audio work, obviously colour accuracy isn't really important there, or some basic level video work, but professional graphics (and video) work requires a proper monitor that can produce real to life colours as accurately as possible.
TalesOfWar 2 years ago
talesofwar,
For video editing you neeed the NTSC monitor. Even a computer monitor with IPS is not wise. Why? Your computer monitor is RGB. Also your computer monitor can not interlace either. The VGA previews for Avid, FCP and even Premiere only play about 15 FPS on the VGA monitor as oppose to 60 fields per second for NTSC. Your colors will be accurate if you use an NTSC monitor but also your speed changes like slow motion and fast forward will be much better on the NTSC monitor.
adobePC 2 years ago
because there is no mid-tower between the iMac and the Mac pro. There is no choice from apple that equals that of a Custom PC. it goes from "all in one" to "Workstation". So comparing to the iMac is as close to accurate as you can get.
Remoth000 2 years ago
@dragonballjiujitsu
Both are wrong in all honesty. Even in my early videos I never compared an standard custom PC to a mac pro. All custom builds had the exact same specs if possible.
zoulkyud 2 years ago
Sven88bac,
I do understand everything mrbit stated you do not.
Mrbit is admiting in this video the a Xeon CPU and ECC RAM may not be wise for a sinlge Quad Core system. Do you need ECC RAM and a XEON CPU or would your money be better invested in an i7?
I think it woud depend on what you're using the system for. If I was building a dedicated server workstation Vs. a graphics workstation my shopping list at newegg would change. Would yours? If not why?
adobePC 2 years ago
I understand your choice to build your own desktop, but realise you've built a desktop and thus not a workstation. It seems to me you see your desktop as a graphics workstation? I hope you don't because you don't own a workstation.
If you don't need Xeon CPU and ECC RAM, that's fine with me, but don't talk crap to everybody about your desktop being EQUAL to a 2500 dollar WORKSTATION.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
Actually mrbit is admitting that the hardware is getting better and the lines are getting blurred. I have indeed let my Celeron CPU render for 3 days straight. Once the rendering was done I could start to edit again with out rebooting the system. Some one mentioned in another forum thread that some servres are running with out ECC RAM.
Keep in mnd mrbit stated some of the money goes to the fancy case. I agree. The Mac Pro is not $2499.00 worth of computing hardware.
adobePC 2 years ago
those that do run non-buffered, NECC, or not registered are not true servers. If they buy a xeon or server chip without some sort of buffer/control on memory, they are shooting themselves in the foot. yes the fancy case and tooless ability to upgrade memory is worth it in a big roll out, i remember big rollout i was part of with continental airlines.
mrbit10 2 years ago
The Mac Pro offers more than just $2499 of specs. It offers premium quality case (strong aluminum), an unmatched airflow, Mac OS X and all the awesome software you get when buying a Mac.
If you build a PC yourself, you'll have to buy all that software yourself. Windows alone will cost you like 300 to 400 dollars.
Those little things do matter.
Sven88bac 2 years ago
Windows does not cost 300 to 400 dollars dude. You loose.
adobePC 2 years ago
windows 7 does...
TheF1PinkVoltaDream 2 years ago 2
We hardcore PC users buy OEM not retail. You folks know that right?
adobePC 2 years ago
A full version of Windows 7 Ultimate costs $320, OEM versions are specifically for resale to a consumer on a custom built machine.
manjyoumethunder 2 years ago
where do you come up with that number? it being less than 300dollars.
gundambob646 2 years ago
Got to newegg dude. I buy OEM not retail you nit wit.
adobePC 2 years ago
@Sven88bac:
You can buy good PC-towers. Haven't seen one as well-built as the Mac Pro, but you can get pretty good towers.
And many PC-towers have excellent airflow.
And if you build a Custom i7, for about $1000, it will perform as good as the Mac Pro. But without the "Workstation" hardware.
It will even be more scalable than the Quad Mac Pro.
(More than 16GB's of RAM).
Windows?
Just buy Snow Leopard and iLife (total of around $100) and voilá.
You have built your own consumer Mac Pro. ;)
sn0le 2 years ago
I agree.
adobePC 2 years ago
its about time you did this video mrbit.lol. thanks !
DRBUK 2 years ago 2
Water cooling is so OLD SKOOL!
ASCII808 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
good job, I knew this all along
macward66 2 years ago
Macward66
You do not know shit. Quit pretending that you do. Everyone knows that you do not.
themacninja 2 years ago 7
In essence a workstation is similar to a server. A server does a specific job/task or various jobs/tasks without very little down time. It's a workhorse rather than a speeding rabbit. You add enough horses and you trample the rabbit.
blacksteel25 2 years ago
I remember the SGI Octanes selling for like 15/20 Gs.
nawkwan 2 years ago
Mr.Bit,
It's interesting that you mentioned SGI. SGI is w/o a doubt a pioneer. For the last 4-5 years (roughly), the company is not doing too good and I believe it has do with their prices and their competition. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, hollywood block busters all used sgi 3d workstations (MIPS).
nawkwan 2 years ago
That was do to Alisaswavefront/Power Animator/MAYA. It works with PCs now so of coures a lot of peope will opt not to get a Silicon Graphics systems.
adobePC 2 years ago
That's impossible!!!! How can your cpu be cooler than Macward's Mac Pro???
You can't do that with old School Water cooling! lol
commodore256 2 years ago 4
Next time If youre going to make a 19 minutes video make sure you drink a bottle of gin before making a vid :D
Just kidding
oOADROo 2 years ago
yeah, that way he would start talking about how much guatemala has improved since the 80´s
TheF1PinkVoltaDream 2 years ago
lmao!!!!!! no worries a new channel is on the way mrbit1010 ;D ;P
mrbit10 2 years ago
Uh the new channel should be called the the curry killer 1010 or the salsa spice 1010... LOL!
losslesscodecs 2 years ago
what about bit cracker 101010101?
TheF1PinkVoltaDream 2 years ago
i will have to do a vid for a vote!!!
mrbit10 2 years ago
I like the impressions ... I wonder if he can do emeek
ThingsontheWeb 2 years ago