Wrestling Roundtable #56 12/17/11 Part 1 - Character Vs. In-Ring Skill

[Nertrender]

to me wrestling is pretty much all character and story the question is where this is taking place. I believe that the heart or the drama should be portrayed in the match but sometimes the matches are prepared for and strung together with other things. If a match is an entree than the prematch stuff is the aroma whetting your appetite. And, not all entries have strong aromas.

[RandomMindz]

You mention how "they don't sell T-shirts of wrestling moves" 5:07 but what about (alright perhaps bad example...) Morishima's Back Drop Driver?

[hamburgeler84]

In response to the question "Can two guys have a drawing match with no real backstory?" I believe they can completely. To me, I love the story that is told in the ring. The match itself becomes a character when done right and a whole story in and of itself. I think a great example of that is Hart vs Austin in their I quit match. That match is a beast and created a new era in wrestling.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

@hamburgeler84 I actually agree with your premise but not your example, as Austin/Hart was the culmination(though not the end, heh, if that makes sense) of months of great storytelling. My example would be old ROH; back in the day(can't believe there's "old ROH" now!), I wouldn't buy ROH VHS tapes to keep up on their storylines...cause I didn't give a fuck! But, if I found out AJ Styles Vs. Bryan Danielson was the main event of the next show, I was there! No story needed.

-E

[fagbert]

@reh629

Indeed. By way of illustration: Warrior was a great "character" wrestler who gets shit on for his wrestling. Yet if you look at Warrior when he was on the big stages -- against Rick Rude at SummerSlams '89 and '90, against Hogan at WMVI, against Savage at WMVII and Summerslam '92 -- he upped his game and had matches we all still talk about (although Warrior vs. Rude at SS'89 has become a forgotten classic). Clearly he understood that, at the big shows, you must bring it in the ring.

[HanleyIsWatchingYou]

I definitely think that it's the characters that draw more. But the best performers in wrestling history are the wrestlers that could get their character across in the ring without a microphone in their hand.

[reh629]

remember all angles end in a match, not a debate, a pose down, or a skit.

[halose7en1980]

Brock Lesnar was a draw in WWE and UFC and he was an accomplished wrestler as an amateur and professional. You can always make an argument for UFC because it has more of a focus on the wrestling aspect than the character and it draws (even if it is a bit watered down).

[NirvanaRHCPfan]

Delirious would have a great conversation with Boomhauer.

[clipsryan]

For the educated fans, it's all about the moves. Lots of wrestlers had just as entertaining moves as catch phrases so both sell tickets. With regards to MMA alot of hype/character sells tickets but for the educated fans, styles sell tickets and the most famous fighters in MMA (Anderson Silva and GSP) are respectful and let their abilities do the talking. I watch both for the in ring/cage skills.

[Ratmann3684]

delirious should be an auctioneer.

[UzumakiSonic619]

That guy Delirious...he's crazy, I'm assuming?

[hatchetman4206667]

@UzumakiSonic619 luckily enough, no he isn't lol he just really believes in kayfabe

[Ratmann3684]

character/charisma sells tickets, not matches.

[TheJerzeyDragon]

I mark out for Delirious

[DaneFalco]

Slick...One Man Gang!?! Mark out

[Mistertbones]

Will and Martin are trying not to corpse. If they do, SEND FOR THE MAN!

[kingamer19]

Bottomline the shows sell the ppv if the ppv sucks then it wasn't worth any of the stories

[StewartLucrative]

The whole obligatory "in memory of" screen in the beginning has started to become cliche. Its your show and its sad that people die, but when every show has that intro it loses any sort of meaning. I say just stick to prowrestling/mma (wrestling will give you more than enough deaths unfortunatly) but thats just me.

[reefinit]

Great roundtable Eric great to hear some insight from ROH's Delirious he made some interesting points I think.The shows just keep getting better Thanks.

[ChiTownMan100]

I agree. You gotta have both. The characters is whar drawls whether these smarks like it or not but they stay for the wrestling. So anyone that says pro-wrestling is about the wrestling first is bullshit because really it all depends. What do ppl love about guys like Hogan, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, and even John Cena? There characters! No so much their wrestling skills. Sure it is pro wrestling and we watch to see these guys wrestle but we also want to care about the guys we do see wrestle.

[punkfan97]

how did you not crack up ? Delirious was cracking me up the whole time i'm amazed that you guys were able to play the straight men to him that's so hard to do. Now then wrestling doesn't draw because you say it doesn't if wrestling didn't matter and it's all about characters then why do we all refer to Savage/Steamboat from WM3 but really you need both i mean if you let Cena wrestle and speak his mind and not read from a script he wouldn't be so hated by all the smarks

[tommo1313]

I think charachter vs in ring skill is a little bit off as part of the way a wrestler expresses his charachter is in the ring. but yeah charachters are the reason people buy tickets but what they do in the ring is a part of who there charachters are. If you have wrestling with no charachter the only fans you have are some smart marks.

[ChiTownMan100]

@tommo1313 Absolutely. lolz

[RandomMindz]

GREAT Work as usual good sirs!!!

And may I say THANK YOU for solidifying my belief that pro wrestling is about the wrestling FIRST. Character, yes, helpful, but I find it ridiculous that this modern era of wrestling in the WWE its becoming a requirement

[Humpzilla21]

Great to have you guys back on Youtube.

[ProWrestlingThinker]

I am not a Orton fan but he is one of the best in the world in the ring today, I agree, horrible comparison. Cena's in ring talent is also very underrated.

[kingabe07]

Curt Henning comes to mind when I see the combination of this. If you watch his AWA stuff focus his singles' run, he had great matches and they focused promoting him on his in-ring work. In WWE, he become Mr. Perfect and people remember his character and vignettes more than his great matches in the WWF. In the 1960s and 1970s, NWA and AWA focused more on being a sport while the WWWF put more time into the characters of the wrestlers.

[BattleBall]

Triple H vs The Undertaker, No promo first Taker comes out and then Triple H comes out and they just stand in the ring looking at each other and the match sold itself

[ChiTownMan100]

@BattleBall That was bc they were already big names.

[BattleBall]

@ChiTownMan100

But it does serve the point of what was they were talking about that you don't always need a good promo to sell a match and when you look back at that was it not a great match that match would have sold tickets even if they were wrestling under their real names

[ChiTownMan100]

@BattleBall Eh? Don't know if I agree with that last part but I degress. ITA with what you are saying but my point is what if it were any two guys that you put in that segment then it wouldn't have been so epic. The reason why it was so huge was because Undertaker and Triple H are two of the biggest names in the WWE today. Both are veterans and have been in the business for a long time. Don't get me wrong there are two of the best wrestlers as well. Not taking anything away from them

[ChiTownMan100]

in that aspect. The same thing sorta applies for Rock/Hogan before WM X8 when they stood in the long for the longest time without saying a word and the fans went absolutely apeshit. Now Hogan is not known for being the best in-ring worker but did they fans really care about that? Absolutely not! They wanted to see Rock vs. Hogan. Two of the biggest names in WWE history going @ it one on one. That is the point I'm trying to get across.

[TheAverageGrunt]

Pro Wrestling: Come for the characters, stay for the action.

[ChiTownMan100]

@TheAverageGrunt Well said.

[MaverickMeyer]

i remember when dragon did an intro for an episode, and he said his name was daniel bryanson

[MaverickMeyer]

slick lost his teeth

[bryanero]

charisma & character draws the crowds, in ring skill & ability keeps the fans interested

[CompoundSolutionsTV]

Martin sold Delirious perfectly

[BrickCity4eva]

$5 wrestling? Slick is funny as shit.

[MICKLEFIELDRUSS]

you guys faces when Delirious is talking is comedy gold...btw Eric...you are an fantastic anchor man/presenter for this program...unlike so many others today in tv/internet....funny, informative, knowledgable, likable and upbeat.....keep up the great work guys...love ya work ...cheers and regards Russ from England :D

[WrestlingRoundtable]

@MICKLEFIELDRUSS Thank you very much for everything.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[bryanero]

@WrestlingRoundtable likewise



[katamari84]

Delirious is hilarious

[blackmegaman]

Once again great episode , and I hope in the future Delirious because at least a somewhat recurring guest.

[MattWoosh]

I personally watch wrestling for the characters and storylines, wrestling is just an extra bonus. This is why I love superstars with a great mixture of both like CM Punk and Cody Rhodes.

[THEBrandonBrownson]

As far as Talent VS Ability- One will never draw in all the people. You have people who come in for one or the other, you have people who come in for both, but you'll never fill a house based on just one or the other.

[ZodiacBryan]

Road Dogg vs the rock for the wwe title was an AWESOME match

[RollandDynasty]

I agree with everything Delirious said.

[BrickCity4eva]

@RollandDynasty I actually understood him

[RollandDynasty]

@BrickCity4eva As did I. He's not hard to understand. You just have to pay attention.

[BrickCity4eva]

@RollandDynasty coming from a family that has strong country accents, understanding him isn't that bad. lol

[RollandDynasty]

@BrickCity4eva Trust me, as a North Carolinian with little-to-no accent, I too deal with Boomhowers every day that make less sense than Delirious

[BrickCity4eva]

@RollandDynasty Oh yeah and that can be painfully annoying

[Thatdeal79]

How bout Hacksaw Jim Duggan? Fans loved him for his gimmick but his wrestling skills were horrible. People loved Bobby Lashley but he barely spoke.

[TheMizark89]

Character brings people into the arena and in-ring ability keeps them there. AKA WCW 1997

[fitzgerald434]

One of the reasons I barely watch WWE is the fact they put to much into the characters then wrestling ability like for example The Miz the character was alright but his wrestling ability sucks. and WTF Delirious can talk?!?!?!

[TheMizark89]

Slickster FTW!!!! The Jive Soul Bro offering $5 Wrestling with his main man Akeem. Epic Win

[Metallica4life1977]

holy shit i understood what Delirious said 

[MrPerfect2000Z]

2 things i find cool:There's a new Wrestling Roundtable episode and i was able to catch most of what Delirious said!

[CadillacL]

If our Vince or Dixie its about character. Unfortunately, that's all we'll ever see on tv.

[Hulkling93]

I enjoy build up for matches and promos, which shows the character, but I care for to see how the actual match and ring psychology plays out. There were and are wrestlers who did well in clashing their character and wrestling skill well when it came time to perform in a match; using it to tell great stories in the ring. I feel Grizzly is right on there should be a 'good balance of both'.

[TheyCallMeTheSwede]

I got to admire Delirious for actually staying in character the whole time.

[Pecker6914]

if i buy one of those $5 dvd, does it comd sith slick delivering it to me; singing jive hive bro at the same time?

[superrobz]

See this is the thing, WWE have ALWAYS gone for the "character" & entertainment aspect over in ring skill. That's why guys like Hogan, Warrior, Cena, Jeff Hardy and so on all got major pushes yet legit "wrestlers" like Curt Hennig, William Regal, Davey Boy Smith, Owen Hart, Jerry Lynn and so on never made it past midcard.

Also speaking of ECW... The one thing that they always did well better than WWE was the fact that they did the opposite, they didn't care about how you looked.

[CadillacL]

@superrobz That's why I loved ECW. They cared about the ring-work.

[superrobz]

@CadillacL Exactly! Give me RVD vs Jerry Lynn & Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka over John Cena & Randy Orton vs the entire roster any night of the week!

[CadillacL]

@superrobz Awesome Vs Tanaka! Now THAT was a battle wasn't it?!

[superrobz]

@CadillacL That feud was easily the best ECW had.