Religious Freedom in America

[dutchbb1979]

To me it's very strange to have something about a religion printed on money. Especially the "we" part is ridiculous. Who is "we"? It's not the 15% atheists in the US, so do these people not count? And to hear a president say "God bless America" is also strange. The USA should change this, money should be secular, presidents should speak neutral. This should be obvious to anyone, but apparently it's not.

[TheKilgoretrout]

If the tax form said any thing about god(s), I would do the same thing that I do with the motto "in god we trust" on the paper money and cross it out.

[MystryBox]

And they're probably be some sort of fine for tampering with official IRS forms, heh.

[TheKilgoretrout]

People think that about writing on the currency but that only applies if it is commercial in nature. I would be willing to take my chances with the IRS about tampering with the form. I don't think that the IRS would be that concerned as long as I paid all the taxes they say I owed.

[sgprailfan]

I am surprised you brought this up, however, I can see why.

I thought about it, and if the pledge said something "One Government without God" it would not be terrible because that would mean that our government is without God, and that seems to be what we think the 1st amendment requests.

In the video you say that the pledge should give people unity (I agree with that for a few reasons). In the 1950s people turned to their religion and this gave the country unity.

[acfacf4321]

MystryBox-- I noticed you sort of used your "index card" approach to making this argument. Well done.

[marketwatch101]

Judges are making the laws now, not the people. We just think we live in a republic.

[RecycleElf]

hmmm... I wish there was a way that all religius people in the whole world could see and understand this viceo and understand your point and what you are saying.

Thank you for being you!

[MystryBox]

Yeah it's really tough to get these points across. One day I'll have to try to redo this video in a way that gets more views.

[nkrej]

Hey Mr. Box. I must say this video is much ado about nothing. My question on the other video was what laws are passed that restrict your liberties and you send me here? You don't have to say the pledge and you can use checks or credit cards if you are opposed to our currency. You must have something more than this right? Oh, and you can lobby your representatives for change...you do have that freedom in this country.

[MystryBox]

So then you'd have no problems if we changed the money to say "In no gods we trust"? You'd have no problems have the pledge of the country say "under no gods"?

[nkrej]

This is all you have isn't it? I've asked 3 or 4 times and this is it. As I said...much ado about nothing. I've been in other countries and used their currency and didn't notice what it said. Maybe I was offended and didn't know it! It would be a bit rediculous to make a declaration of trust in nothing. I mean you might want to say "In the mighty arm of Man" or "In the power of the U.S. Military" but to say that we trust in nothing? Trust requires something to be trusted. No?

[MystryBox]

What it's not enough laws have been passed to make it so our money, pledge, and motto break the constitution and go against my beliefs? How about all the blue laws across the country? How about public funding going for groups that discriminate against atheists (e.g. boy scounts)? How about George Bush Sr publicly saying atheists shouldn't be citizens? How about christians attacking science theories and having them modified or removed from classrooms?

[nkrej]

Again, it would be silly to say "under nothing". I mean, we are under something. Maybe we could say "One nation under...the clear blue sky" No that wouldn't work because sometimes it's cloudy. Hmmmm....well, idk. I would just leave it the way it is or leave it blank. I'd be happy either way. You?

[MystryBox]

Learn your history, the original pledge didn't have the "under god" phrase in it! It was changed in the 50's because of Christian pressure. So I say we leave it alone too... or rather go back to how it was originally written! It's the same thing with our money--the "in god we trust" was added during the cold war.

[nkrej]

uuh....I didn't realise this was a response to me until I checked my email. I didn't say the original pledge did have "under god" in it. Or the money thing. As I said, I'm happy either way. Don't worry...Be happy! I love that song :)

[MystryBox]

You haven't answered the question. Would you be ok if the pledge said "under no gods". Not under nothing, but specifically a religious, atheistic statement. Would you appreciate that change being made so that you couldn't say the pledge any more? Do you think I appreciate the change that was made in the 50's to change our pledge so it has a religious phrase that I don't agree with and don't want to say? You try to brush this off, but how would you feel?!?

[nkrej]

First of all, you weren't around in the 50's. Secondly, you were a Christian for the first part of your life so you were bound to be offended one way or the other. Thirdly, if you don't want to say it DON'T! It's a free country you know.

[MystryBox]

I'll answer for you since you don't have the guts to admit the obvious truth. You wouldn't like it. You would speak against those that push their religion into the laws of the country, just like I am doing.

[nkrej]

You are so conflicted you probably offend yourself, an atheist who doesn't believe in God and doesn't not believe in God! No wonder you are freaking out. As I said, I wouldn't care if we left it as is or put it back to pre '50's. You can believe what you want although I admit it will require a bit of "faith" on your part to believe me. So be it. (cont.)

[MystryBox]

I don't believe you with good evidence. You're here hassling me for talking about my atheism and I'm just an individual using his rights of free speech to talk about issues he cares about. I'm supposed to believe you wouldn't care if the government put atheistic phrases in the pledge, motto and money when you can't even stand to see me talking about such issues? You're a liar.

[nkrej]

(cont.) Furthermore, the pledge and currency don't push my religion into the laws. "Under God" and "In God we Trust" are non-specific and therefore don't support or discount any religion. And, the pledge isn't a law...you don't have to say it.

[MystryBox]

The phrases are against MY beliefs and were put in my Christian organizations. I don't care if you think they're nonspecific to your religion they are religious in nature and against MY beliefs!

[nkrej]

The first amendment doesn't protect "any" belief, it protects "religious" belief. Atheism isn't a "religious" belief and is therefore not protected by the first amendment.

[MystryBox]

That is a disgraceful argument. You deserve to be slapped for suggesting my rights are not protected under the Constitution while yours are. This is EXACTLY the sort of reprehensible attitude that just makes my point about Christians. That's the most offensive thing I've read in a long time and now I'm blocking your arrogant, rude, offensive, posts from my videos. Go away, you're a waste of oxygen and don't deserve to be in this country with civilized people.

[MystryBox]

How DARE you make such an argument!

[nkrej]

Fourthly, your pledge "under no gods", wouldn't necessarily be true for all atheists, you included. You have said in other posts that you don't deny there is a God...you simply don't know. So, in your mind there may be a God so your pledge may conflict with what is. And I did answer the question. You may not like the answer but an answer it is.

[nkrej]

btw, there is no such thing as a "religious, atheistic statement". I'm sorry if this offends you but I am going to use the dictionary again. RELIGIOUS: of, pertaining to, or concerned with religion. Religious is a general word, applying to whatever pertains to faith. ATHEIST: a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. Atheist refers to persons not inclined toward religious belief. I'm sure you will want the dictionary banned along with the Bible.

[MystryBox]

You're right that atheism isn't a religion. However it is a position on religious issues. I don't believe in any gods and it's not the government's place to force to me recite religious phrases that go against my religious positions.

Besides if the gov't put in atheist statements into the pledge you'd be very quick to call them religious and that they should be removed because they are unconstitutional.

[bizzee1]

So true, MystryBox. I do have a point of contention, though. We have a fine tradition of hypocrisy in America, so being an American and a hypocrite are not mutually exclusive. ;D

[MystryBox]

Heh, true.

[conman2317]

I live in Canada, and in our national anthem, we say "God keep our land, glorious and free", when we are suppose to be accepting everyone of all faiths and origins, immigrants can come to Canada from anywhere, if there was an Islamic Canadian, they have to say the national anthem and go against their religion this is ridiculous.

[Finiras]

Not that I agree that it should be in your national anthem, but muslims also have a god, so unless it says something specific about the christian god, he isn't going against his religion by saying it.

[jester5709]

America's pledge says one nation under god so don't cry

[poiliopizzuy]

the pledge was amended to differentiate us from the commies. It was added to the paper money to help unify the county around the time of the civil war, by my hero Salmon P Chase, I was quite disappointed when I found out he was the culprit.

[MystryBox]

Times of stress are when we allow the standards of the country to fall. Just like these days...

[AlmightyFRACTA]

BEAUTIFUL

[InfoJunkieHolland]

yeah, it's always funny to hear theists bash secularism while that same secularism provides them safety from persecution.

i like your thinking.

[DanReborn]

haha.

im glad that hjere in the uk, god nor religion plays no part in our everyday lives, we do not see it anywhere, not hear of it. untill christmas of course.

[PMorphy65]

Why did it take around 1500 years after the death of Jesus for Christianity to spread throughout Europe, then later America? I think the Constitution also has a phrase saying "...if there is a God..."

[snasxs]

You know what, I hear some Christians claim Ghod is not religious, and *He is a fact* ;-) I bet you agree with him. Talking to you, I witness again close-minded and stanch suppression of Religious Freedom. I call for you to respect diversity and religious freedom of all people. Obviously, there is neither tolerance, nor accommodation for religious freedom in the US - only Christian domination.

[PMorphy65]

I think you misunderstand my point. You can believe in whatever you'd like, that's none of my business. As you can see in my writings, I only talking about facts. If you believe in a mystical being, good for you. Kids believe in Santa Claus and that makes them happy; Who am I to take that away? I think the last part about Christian dominance is wrong, it just seems that way. Don't get offended man, you obviously don't live in America, so what's it matter to you?

[southpawprof]

People get so wrapped up in religion, they lose their mind. I was a christian for almost 20 years, but thank god I finally saw the light. (pun fully intended.)

[mwamba007]

you joined scientology

[smartz100]

Yes, even religous people must understand that opening the door to one God opens it to others. Imagine if the Amish (for example only) ran the country. They outlaw, planes, cars, alcahol, makeup- zippers, telephones, and computers. How would you like their standard of values imposed upon you? And you can fill in any religion for the same conclusion.

Let the outside world know that we are Americans first, and Atheists will fight alongside the Christain for our freedom.

[MystryBox]

Atheists are already fighting alongside Christians for our freedoms. Unfortunately most of the time we're fighting against other Christians.

[xyzgenericid]

I am a Christian and this is the rationality I like to hear. YOU are so right and the fear that anyones religion was imposed on us would be GAWD awful.. our founding fathers we very intelligent and wise men! We can all ask for blessings for our country in our own way or er...say best of luck, or peace and prosperity, na-noo nan-noo ..

[xyzgenericid]

Oh btw, I have been telling people this for years.. in a yeah but kinda way in response to someone angry over money and prayer in public schools.. talk about a blank face and silence... it seem harmless on the surface, but what if the pendulum swung another way and the majority religion belonged to the Hail Bop cult or some type of Jim Jones cult... Very good video post!

[xyzgenericid]

Now how to stop the teaching of religion under the guise of cultural sensitivity and understanding in public schools or how 'bout the religious accomodations in schools and the workplace? hmmmmm ..... that is a mess right now.

[xyzgenericid]

Someone has a million dollar challege up to find the exact phrase division of church and state in the US constitution...and I posted one of my yeah but comments about what if...... The entire idea scares me ...

[mwamba007]

Interesting view point.But experience has it the other way.Churches grow very rapidly whe outlawed.A shocking situation indeed.

[docrufus]

Are you familiar with the Libertarian politic of 'Freedomain Radio'? It employs a similar logic & educational approah to the middle ground, as you.

[MystryBox]

I'll have to check it out, thanks.

[TXatheist]

David,

I think Missouri does have a tax form that asks for your signature and it states just above that line that you acknowledge statements on this form are true so help me God.  It may have changed but it was like that just a few years back at the latest.

[MystryBox]

Sad.

[docrufus]

Education and awareness are key - by dispelling the underlying fear of committing a social taboo by openly questioning commonly held beliefs - beliefs & ideologies need to be open for honest public debate, especially in democracies. Public policy & politics will be the final frontier in the on-going evolution of thought, methinks.

[docrufus]

Also, how many politicians running for national office of any kind in America would openly claim to be an atheist/agnostic? (rehtorical)

You would agree the 'culture of belief' must be overcome, but how do you envision this paradigm shift in practice - first in the populace, politically or some combination?

[MystryBox]

Polls show most Americans will not vote for an atheist, so you can bet non-believing politicians fake it.

Society is evolving. I think we are becoming more reasonable and rational over time--because those are the things that work. There will be bad cycles but generally I think we keep marching ahead leaving superstition and ignorance behind. Education and awareness are key though.

[docrufus]

You are correct - to clarify, 'America is the hypocrite' by allowing theology to enter politics at the highest level as Islamic states.

America by allowing theology to become politicized is 'in this sense on par' with Islamic states.

(I should've been more specific, sorry).

[docrufus]

Isn't it troubling & frightening when religious belief & dogma rise to the political level.

America is a perfect example of hypocrisy on the highest level, on par with Islamic states.

[MystryBox]

A bit of nit-picking... Islamic states are theocracies so when they treat Islam as special they aren't being hypocritical... but they don't claim freedom of religion either. Given that, America, though not perfect is far from on par with the Islamic world.

[Pronghorn22]

Excellent points, another great video.

[MystryBox]

Thanks for your support here and on the other videos you've commented on :-)

[KasparHauser4]

Creative Great video. Thank you.