Hi Mike, after all my research into HHO, you provide the best info. I really appreciate it. Just to confirm are you saying any voltage under 2.2 volts is best. My question is that on a 31 plate generator are you still using 12Volts?...or are they designed to use greater voltage??
@marshyman66 Yes, on a 31 plate cell you still use 12v. I can't post a link here but look for my video called "neutral plates explained". It's all about getting your volts/plate gap down to around 2 volts.
Dear! What if we have plates configurations (-nn+nn-nn+nn-). Which Gas will produce on ‘n’ plates (Oxygen or Hydrogen)? #Gas on 1st Active - Plate = H #Gas on 1st ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 2nd ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 2nd Active + Plate = O #Gas on 3rd ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 4th ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 3rd Active - Plate = H #Gas on 5th ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 6th ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 4th Active + Plate = O #Gas on 7th ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 8th ‘n’ Plate = ? #Gas on 5th Active - Plate = H appreciate
@thghho You are over-thinking it. If the first plate is negative, it produces Hydrogen. The opposing face on the first neutral plate produces Oxygen. The opposite side of the first neutral plate produces Hydrogen (this is why neutral plates are called bi-polar). The next plate face (second neutral plate) produces Oxygen and so on.
Excellent info. Will save my thousand questions until I've watched all your vids on HHO. Thanks for explaining a basic heat problem & how it's resolved. Now back to vid 1.
Hmm i was watching these videos lately about HHO, i never made any cell because i want to learn more. What material is the best for plate? I mean i didn't saw yet anyone uses copper or aluminum plates only stainless steal why ?
Due to budgit constraints; {i.e..if it aint free i cant afford it] i am working with wet jars. To help with leakage i am considering using progressively wider spacing , e.g.[ + n n - ] Using 2 seperate jars wired in series. Any thoughts? Yea or Nay? Before i waste a lot of time? btw, excellent videos
@hhoconnection Using instant ice tea jars, scrap SS sinks for +&n ,Cu for negative. Thinking of making a sacrifical plate system of flatened AL cans, deliberatly comsuming the AL. just need a quick convient way to change out used up cans.
Actually mike lets think outside the box a little. The electrolyte conducts, however not nearly as well as the plates. So the the electrolyte is more resistive than the plates, and we know that resistance will cause power to be wasted. This wasted power becomes heat.
So by placing the plates between the electrodes we are creating two things:
@dgomezMentec I made a unit with 12 plates with a (+)(n)(-) connection, they heat up very fast seems like the wires were starting to burn, but producing a lot of hydrogen. I tried to make only 3 (-) and 2 (+) and the rest is neutral, the heat is tolerable and acceptable but the hydrogen production is compromized. What can you suggest? My power source is from a car battery with running alternator. Thank you very much.
@Melvinizel Not to sound like a jerk, but did you watch this video? You need to use 5 neutral plates between each + and -. Make a 13 plate cell and configure it like this: -NNNNN+NNNNN-.
@Melvinizel Add more neutral plates for each + and - stack. With the engine running there is actually about 13.8 volts to consider. Based on an operational amount of 13.8 volts, having 7 neutral plates per stack gives you 1.97 volts per plate which is excellent for HHO production. Whether using 6 or 7 neutrals, be sure to use a PWM as a control measure.
The one I had built was setup like this: -nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn-
Hi, back to bother you again, assuming I have my voltage down to 2v per plate I notice in you comments that their seems to be a maximum amperage related to the surface area of ss plate. I also believe I can controll the amps by the electrolite. Is their a fomula to determin the correct draw of amps ? Hate to sound so green but this is very new to me.
@TheJimmax Take the total exposed surface area of one plate (lets say 4"x4" = 16 square in). Multiply that number by .5 (or half). We now have 8, so the maximum amount of amps that you would want to throw at one series (7 plates if running 5 neutrals) is 8 amps. Now say you have a 19 plate cell, that would be three stacks of a 7 plate series, so take 8 amps and multiply it by the number of stacks (8 x 3 = 24 amps max for a 19 plate cell ). Make sense?
@hhoconnection Yes thank you, that seems quite straight forward I was expecting something much more complicated. Just one thing I would like to clarify It seems to be the surface area of one side of a plate is this the case? Last question have you ever exported to the UK. Im about to get involved and would be very glad to give you my business.
@TheJimmax Yes for this calculation you only use one side of one plate to come up with the initial number that gets divided by two. Also, yes, I have shipped products to the UK but it gets expensive. A typical dry cell or kit is $45.50 - $58.00 to ship overseas. On top of that different products get shipped from different vendors so it can add up.
assuming the plates aren't connected and they are "neutral" they act this way, is that the same case if you deliberately connect each plate to the original source? would it be any less efficient one way or the other? would less be produced?
@ragekeptin I think the whole point of this video was to explain how to get the voltage down. If you connected the neutral plates to the power source it would defeat the purpose and you would have a good water heater.
So, I do understand that the dry cell is bipolar and also that each neutral plate is bipolar. But how do you know which plates will be positive and which plates will be negative so you know up to which point O2 is produced and when the H2 producing plates begin?
Thank you again for the very clear information you have an exellent channel whitch cuts through all the hype and mistery surrounding hho. I have looked at other channels and found lots of information missing or wrong and im not sure if they are just misinformed or trying to hide stuff. Keep up the good work I will be watching for new vids. Thanks Jim Allen . Scotland.
Thank you for the very clear video, neutral plates made sense for the firsr time but it does raise another question do the neutral plates produce any gas?
@hhoconnection How are the neutral plates bipolar? And how is whether they are negative or positive determined if they aren't directly connected to either the positive or negative end?
Great clips packed with info for novices, thank you! 1 issue I've discovered even thru my research EFI engines need O2 & MAS tuners. Wish I'd seen that earlier in my attempts to build HHO devices. I'm a bit discouraged now knowing I'll need to spend more for those devices. Also, noone seems to show or do "sloshing" test. ie: if the unit is operating on a vehicle while driving around and the solution is sloshing inside the containers, how that effects the HHO production.
@Me102288 Just focus on 2 volts/plate gap. You are only running 4 neutrals which means 5 plate gaps. 13 volts / 5 = 2.6 volts/plate gap (too high) You should add one more neutral plate -nnnnn+nnnnn-. Too many volts/plate gap causes heat. Too many amps will also cause a cell to overheat. By this I mean too many amps for the total plate surface of the cell. That's a whole different video!
@hhoconnection Im running 8 neutrals, 12 volts across 10 plate = 1.2 volts. there really shold only be 1 positive plate for these cells or you have to double the plates for the same voltage example - n n n n + n n n n - distributes no higher then 1.2 volt per plate, putting a second + it would drive voltage per plate gap up almost 2x on the plates nearest the second positive.. be some pretty long drycell to take that kinda heat lol
@Me102288 WTF? You are totally confused. Take a voltmeter and test the voltage between your + plate and either of the two - plates and you will see that you get 12 volts. Take the reading between any two plates that are side by side and you will get 2.6 volts. I give up, have someone else explain it to you.
thanks very much, this helped alot with me understanding the concept, one thing tho is if i do -NNNNNNN+ instead of -NNNNN+ it wont produce as much gas correct so it would be better to do -NNNNN+
@shortyjk95 Glad to help. You are correct, 7 neutrals would be too many. Try 5 and if the cell gets too hot consider using 6. Remember you will need to add more electrolyte when you add neutral plates.
Hi Mike, this is probably not a clever question but would having 6 separate cells in series be more efficient and provide better cooling? Although this would cost more in some parts such as pvc & connections it would mean less gaskets and less stainless. Sorry i've only learned about dry cells earlier today, it makes so much sense, i'm glad i didn't start out with the wet style cells.
@izzzzzz6 You are correct in that the cell would probably be more efficient, but like you said it would be much more bulky of costly for the non stainless parts. As for saving money on plates, the less plate surface you have, the less gas you will get. Even though it would be more efficient than a 7 plate single stack dry cell, you still are limited on how many amps you can throw at it by the total plate surface area. Hope this makes sense.
Great video, but I noticed something you mentioned.. You first say that heat is generated by over voltage and is waste. At the end of the video you also mention that the addition of neutral plates also reduces current..
So my question is, aren't the neutral plates acting on limiting current? thus reducing heat ? If you take a specific sell and add neutral plates, how much current is reduced over that of 2 single plates? What si the difference in HHO production? Need to make one of these. :D
Many thanks 4 explanation-get it in my head at last!
I am building my project and you can watch it on youtube: BMW 7 HHO car running on water :]
I am going to use Voltage to Current Converter (instead of PWM) and at last waiting for another cell coming in 1 week Without Neutral Plates...as far I remember it gonna be about 4V per cell...hmmm...propobly I will need 1 Neutral Plate between every + and - to get around 2V per cell?
Cool, that helps. How do the poles work when your working with more then 7 plates, i.e. the EBN cells with 19 plates. How do the neutrals work then and where are the negative and positive terminals?
So if 7 plates is +NNNNN- is 19 going to be +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN- or would you have the positives on the edges and then two negatives in the middle? (Which I guess would render the central 5 neutrals pointless...)
Thanks Mike, I always wondered on the forums what the +nnnnnn- meant and I couldn't get it in my mind how they could get to 2 volts. Great video. Keep up the good work.
Hi Mike, after all my research into HHO, you provide the best info. I really appreciate it. Just to confirm are you saying any voltage under 2.2 volts is best. My question is that on a 31 plate generator are you still using 12Volts?...or are they designed to use greater voltage??
Thanks again MM
marshyman66 3 days ago
@marshyman66 Yes, on a 31 plate cell you still use 12v. I can't post a link here but look for my video called "neutral plates explained". It's all about getting your volts/plate gap down to around 2 volts.
hhoconnection 2 days ago
this is very serious and informative, thank´s a lot man...you do a gret effort explaining the procces,and it is aprecciated..
chavoya123 2 weeks ago
Thanks sir, its pretty clear now....
thghho 4 weeks ago
thghho 1 month ago
@thghho You are over-thinking it. If the first plate is negative, it produces Hydrogen. The opposing face on the first neutral plate produces Oxygen. The opposite side of the first neutral plate produces Hydrogen (this is why neutral plates are called bi-polar). The next plate face (second neutral plate) produces Oxygen and so on.
hhoconnection 1 month ago
Excellent info. Will save my thousand questions until I've watched all your vids on HHO. Thanks for explaining a basic heat problem & how it's resolved. Now back to vid 1.
Cloudy2Clear 1 month ago
Hmm i was watching these videos lately about HHO, i never made any cell because i want to learn more. What material is the best for plate? I mean i didn't saw yet anyone uses copper or aluminum plates only stainless steal why ?
MaReBSC 1 month ago
Thank you i learn so much from you
TEO7682 1 month ago
Due to budgit constraints; {i.e..if it aint free i cant afford it] i am working with wet jars. To help with leakage i am considering using progressively wider spacing , e.g.[ + n n - ] Using 2 seperate jars wired in series. Any thoughts? Yea or Nay? Before i waste a lot of time? btw, excellent videos
marklmansfield 1 month ago
@marklmansfield Anything involving wires and mason jars is a waste of time, period.
hhoconnection 1 month ago
@hhoconnection Using instant ice tea jars, scrap SS sinks for +&n ,Cu for negative. Thinking of making a sacrifical plate system of flatened AL cans, deliberatly comsuming the AL. just need a quick convient way to change out used up cans.
marklmansfield 1 month ago
Hi I'm wanting to build a generator that produces enough hho to run my Bunsen burner on any ideas would be most appreciated
MrPeacerocker 1 month ago
what do neutral plates make hh or o2
quicksilverphil 1 month ago
Do the neutral plates make gas? what type?
quicksilverphil 1 month ago
@quicksilverphil Yes, they are bi-polar plates meaning they make H on one side and O on the other.
hhoconnection 1 month ago
Thank you, You just cleared up a big question for me. This should be elementary for anyone who understands series/parrallel. Much appreciated!!!
robbygill1 1 month ago
Have tested the efficiency of each type of cell? In terms of watt hours to gram? You should make a video for that. You seem to be good at it.
What about mmo as electrodes? Have you tried that?
TheSolarmike 2 months ago
Actually mike lets think outside the box a little. The electrolyte conducts, however not nearly as well as the plates. So the the electrolyte is more resistive than the plates, and we know that resistance will cause power to be wasted. This wasted power becomes heat.
So by placing the plates between the electrodes we are creating two things:
1). Less resistance.
2). More electrode surface area for gas to form.
crazynutzzz 2 months ago
I have a question, that electrolyte is composed of water and sulfuric acid as the car battery or something else.thank you
AQFearfullMage 2 months ago
@AQFearfullMage The electrolyte is distilled water and Potassium Hydroxide (KOH). You can use that or Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH).
hhoconnection 2 months ago
Thank you I have been looking for this answer.
dgomezMentec 3 months ago
@dgomezMentec I made a unit with 12 plates with a (+)(n)(-) connection, they heat up very fast seems like the wires were starting to burn, but producing a lot of hydrogen. I tried to make only 3 (-) and 2 (+) and the rest is neutral, the heat is tolerable and acceptable but the hydrogen production is compromized. What can you suggest? My power source is from a car battery with running alternator. Thank you very much.
Melvinizel 2 months ago
@Melvinizel Not to sound like a jerk, but did you watch this video? You need to use 5 neutral plates between each + and -. Make a 13 plate cell and configure it like this: -NNNNN+NNNNN-.
hhoconnection 2 months ago
@hhoconnection That's why I am asking some suggestions. I am just new to this hydrogen cell. Yes I have watched your video.
Melvinizel 2 months ago
@Melvinizel Add more neutral plates for each + and - stack. With the engine running there is actually about 13.8 volts to consider. Based on an operational amount of 13.8 volts, having 7 neutral plates per stack gives you 1.97 volts per plate which is excellent for HHO production. Whether using 6 or 7 neutrals, be sure to use a PWM as a control measure.
The one I had built was setup like this: -nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+nnnnnnn-
EisBlade 2 months ago
@EisBlade Actually, 13.8 volts with 7 neutrals would give you 1.725 volts/plate gap.
hhoconnection 2 months ago
thank you
akkurt027 3 months ago
Awsome!!! you are the best :)
rikgonther1 3 months ago in playlist More videos from hhoconnection
WOW! I'm kinda new to dry cell HHO generators. Thank you SO much for making this video!
Steve042176 3 months ago
Hi, back to bother you again, assuming I have my voltage down to 2v per plate I notice in you comments that their seems to be a maximum amperage related to the surface area of ss plate. I also believe I can controll the amps by the electrolite. Is their a fomula to determin the correct draw of amps ? Hate to sound so green but this is very new to me.
TheJimmax 3 months ago
@TheJimmax Take the total exposed surface area of one plate (lets say 4"x4" = 16 square in). Multiply that number by .5 (or half). We now have 8, so the maximum amount of amps that you would want to throw at one series (7 plates if running 5 neutrals) is 8 amps. Now say you have a 19 plate cell, that would be three stacks of a 7 plate series, so take 8 amps and multiply it by the number of stacks (8 x 3 = 24 amps max for a 19 plate cell ). Make sense?
hhoconnection 3 months ago
@hhoconnection Yes thank you, that seems quite straight forward I was expecting something much more complicated. Just one thing I would like to clarify It seems to be the surface area of one side of a plate is this the case? Last question have you ever exported to the UK. Im about to get involved and would be very glad to give you my business.
TheJimmax 3 months ago
@TheJimmax Yes for this calculation you only use one side of one plate to come up with the initial number that gets divided by two. Also, yes, I have shipped products to the UK but it gets expensive. A typical dry cell or kit is $45.50 - $58.00 to ship overseas. On top of that different products get shipped from different vendors so it can add up.
hhoconnection 3 months ago
assuming the plates aren't connected and they are "neutral" they act this way, is that the same case if you deliberately connect each plate to the original source? would it be any less efficient one way or the other? would less be produced?
ragekeptin 3 months ago
@ragekeptin I think the whole point of this video was to explain how to get the voltage down. If you connected the neutral plates to the power source it would defeat the purpose and you would have a good water heater.
TheJimmax 3 months ago
So, I do understand that the dry cell is bipolar and also that each neutral plate is bipolar. But how do you know which plates will be positive and which plates will be negative so you know up to which point O2 is produced and when the H2 producing plates begin?
Akanoro 3 months ago
BIG THANKS!!!
hotpapayasalad 3 months ago
Thank you again for the very clear information you have an exellent channel whitch cuts through all the hype and mistery surrounding hho. I have looked at other channels and found lots of information missing or wrong and im not sure if they are just misinformed or trying to hide stuff. Keep up the good work I will be watching for new vids. Thanks Jim Allen . Scotland.
TheJimmax 3 months ago
Hate to be a pest but does bi- polar mean one side will produce hydrogen and the other oxygen
TheJimmax 3 months ago
@TheJimmax Yes, one side is positive and the other side is negative. Therefore one side produces Hydrogen and the other side produces Oxygen.
hhoconnection 3 months ago
@hhoconnection are you positive about that statement?
ragekeptin 3 months ago
Thank you for the very clear video, neutral plates made sense for the firsr time but it does raise another question do the neutral plates produce any gas?
TheJimmax 3 months ago
@TheJimmax Yes, neutral plates are bi-polar and produce gas.
hhoconnection 3 months ago
@hhoconnection How are the neutral plates bipolar? And how is whether they are negative or positive determined if they aren't directly connected to either the positive or negative end?
Akanoro 3 months ago
Great clips packed with info for novices, thank you! 1 issue I've discovered even thru my research EFI engines need O2 & MAS tuners. Wish I'd seen that earlier in my attempts to build HHO devices. I'm a bit discouraged now knowing I'll need to spend more for those devices. Also, noone seems to show or do "sloshing" test. ie: if the unit is operating on a vehicle while driving around and the solution is sloshing inside the containers, how that effects the HHO production.
David45Abq 3 months ago
I'm so mixed up now, is it voltage or amperage which causes heat?
for example which setup would put more heat into the water.
6 volts at 5 amps or 12 volts at 2.5 ?? I'm running a - n n n n + n n n n - configured drycell
Me102288 3 months ago
@Me102288 Just focus on 2 volts/plate gap. You are only running 4 neutrals which means 5 plate gaps. 13 volts / 5 = 2.6 volts/plate gap (too high) You should add one more neutral plate -nnnnn+nnnnn-. Too many volts/plate gap causes heat. Too many amps will also cause a cell to overheat. By this I mean too many amps for the total plate surface of the cell. That's a whole different video!
hhoconnection 3 months ago
@hhoconnection Im running 8 neutrals, 12 volts across 10 plate = 1.2 volts. there really shold only be 1 positive plate for these cells or you have to double the plates for the same voltage example - n n n n + n n n n - distributes no higher then 1.2 volt per plate, putting a second + it would drive voltage per plate gap up almost 2x on the plates nearest the second positive.. be some pretty long drycell to take that kinda heat lol
Me102288 3 months ago
@Me102288 WTF? You are totally confused. Take a voltmeter and test the voltage between your + plate and either of the two - plates and you will see that you get 12 volts. Take the reading between any two plates that are side by side and you will get 2.6 volts. I give up, have someone else explain it to you.
hhoconnection 3 months ago
@hhoconnection my config is - n n n n + n n n n - both at same time with 2 ampmeters it reads 6 volt to each.
using 1 ampmeter its 12 volt on both sides wtf voltage doesnt split its amperage.. ok ran this by father, he electronics engineer, were both confused.
Im using the 12 volt off a computer switching power supply. , might try 24 volt and take another reading.. this cant be happening
Me102288 3 months ago
Thank you very, very much!!!!
adamal93 4 months ago
Thank you, very helpful video.
R3AktoRMacedonia 4 months ago
it helped me sir thank u sir
Mr71seventyone1 4 months ago
thanks very much, this helped alot with me understanding the concept, one thing tho is if i do -NNNNNNN+ instead of -NNNNN+ it wont produce as much gas correct so it would be better to do -NNNNN+
shortyjk95 4 months ago
@shortyjk95 Glad to help. You are correct, 7 neutrals would be too many. Try 5 and if the cell gets too hot consider using 6. Remember you will need to add more electrolyte when you add neutral plates.
hhoconnection 4 months ago
this has given me a lot of insight and filled in some of the gaps (no pun intended)
jawbraeka 5 months ago
thank you for making this series of videos
Animeabe 5 months ago
Thank You for your Very Clear and Very Understandable Video! You do an awesome job of explaining it!
AngPatGV 5 months ago
Hi Mike, this is probably not a clever question but would having 6 separate cells in series be more efficient and provide better cooling? Although this would cost more in some parts such as pvc & connections it would mean less gaskets and less stainless. Sorry i've only learned about dry cells earlier today, it makes so much sense, i'm glad i didn't start out with the wet style cells.
izzzzzz6 5 months ago
@izzzzzz6 You are correct in that the cell would probably be more efficient, but like you said it would be much more bulky of costly for the non stainless parts. As for saving money on plates, the less plate surface you have, the less gas you will get. Even though it would be more efficient than a 7 plate single stack dry cell, you still are limited on how many amps you can throw at it by the total plate surface area. Hope this makes sense.
hhoconnection 5 months ago
Excellent presentation! Thanks!
I was just posting on HHOForums about using a -N+N- configuration with a PWM to control amps/heat.
My dry cell is -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+ using a 30A PWM.
In your opinion, is this good for a 2.2L gasoline engine?
jerrymc777 6 months ago
@jerrymc777 I would add one more neutral plate and use the PWM. -NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+
hhoconnection 6 months ago
Great video, but I noticed something you mentioned.. You first say that heat is generated by over voltage and is waste. At the end of the video you also mention that the addition of neutral plates also reduces current..
So my question is, aren't the neutral plates acting on limiting current? thus reducing heat ? If you take a specific sell and add neutral plates, how much current is reduced over that of 2 single plates? What si the difference in HHO production? Need to make one of these. :D
TunedCavityLasers 6 months ago
hello, which is better to use neoprene or pvc gasket? thanks
mr240kevin 8 months ago
@mr240kevin neoprene
hhoconnection 6 months ago
hello, which is better to use neoprene or pvc gasket? thanks
mr240kevin 8 months ago
@mr240kevin neoprene
hhoconnection 5 months ago
Good stuff! Well laid out and explained.
ThePresidentialTouch 8 months ago
this is a very good video for explaining how to understand neutrals. thanks much.
b101aa2 9 months ago
Hello!
Many thanks 4 explanation-get it in my head at last!
I am building my project and you can watch it on youtube: BMW 7 HHO car running on water :]
I am going to use Voltage to Current Converter (instead of PWM) and at last waiting for another cell coming in 1 week Without Neutral Plates...as far I remember it gonna be about 4V per cell...hmmm...propobly I will need 1 Neutral Plate between every + and - to get around 2V per cell?
Regards!
tattoostudio666 9 months ago
Cool, that helps. How do the poles work when your working with more then 7 plates, i.e. the EBN cells with 19 plates. How do the neutrals work then and where are the negative and positive terminals?
So if 7 plates is +NNNNN- is 19 going to be +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN- or would you have the positives on the edges and then two negatives in the middle? (Which I guess would render the central 5 neutrals pointless...)
Dooobs 9 months ago
@Dooobs You are correct, with 19 plates the configuration is +NNNNN-NNNN+NNNNN-. You have learned well young Jedi!
hhoconnection 9 months ago
thankyou
Mr123bohemian 9 months ago
Thanks Mike, I always wondered on the forums what the +nnnnnn- meant and I couldn't get it in my mind how they could get to 2 volts. Great video. Keep up the good work.
steve10391 9 months ago
Very nice explenation Mike. Perfect to send HHO newbies to.
Larry
HHOPWR 9 months ago
@HHOPWR Thanks Larry, I figured these videos would save us a lot of keystrokes on the forums when the newbies show up.
hhoconnection 9 months ago