Jordan was a total con man when it came to manipulating friend or foe to win. The only person I've seen that was so good at getting in people's heads was when I watched the "Pumping Iron" documentary and how Arnold messed with Ferrigno. I'm a Bulls fan and Jordan is the greatest but he wasn't really a nice guy when it came to winning.
THE GOAT. When Kobe can score 40 at 40 than we can talk. Kobe scoring 40 at 33 doesnt meat shit. Michael probably AVARAGED almost 40 at age 33. LOL. oh by the way, best defender in the league at 33 and for sure averaged more rebounds and assists. And with hand checking defenders. Not even close.
people just need to stop saying kobe or any of these other fools are better than MJ. When you have Magic, Larry, and the rest of the free world saying MJ is the best basketball player to every play....that's because MJ is the best basketball player to ever play. This dude played at age 40 with destroyed knees against todays "stars" and could still takeover a game whenever he wanted. Dont waste your time comparing him to anyone
yeah.... look at that loser OAKLEY. He practically gave MJ a red carpet to drive to the lane. One time he gave MJ a semi-hard sanitized foul so it wouldn't look to obvious. That's why OAK has ZERO RING. It was 6 vs. 4 when Bulls played against the Knicks. I heard a bell hop in Vegas beat the crap out of OAK. I hope the bell hop's fists are OK.
I would expect such an audacious claim to be supported by a considerable amount of evidence. You see how this works? I can say anything, and if I have no reputable sources for support to what I say, am I really saying anything? Kobe Bryant is white, Kim Kardashian has a small ass, Lebron is good in the clutch; these are examples of your argument, an asinine claim which makes no sense, which obviously is not accompanied by any supporting facts.
@soyfity lol how is that truth ? Not only is it not true, it doesnt even make sense. My BEST friend knows good and well i will do everything in my power to win against him in a basketball game. Just like i know he will do the same. And our game means nothing but bragging rights. Jordan didnt need to try and con anyone, his skills were all he needed. You actually think MJ said to himself " i bet if i act like i care about this guy he will think i wont play as hard against him !" lmao how stupid.
sixers, celtics, lakers, pistons beat champions to win championships. michael beat magic, thats a fact. but just like larry holmes beat ali, you gets no card for whooping an old ass man. in mho, this past decade of champions - spurs, lakers, celtics, pistons - was deeper than the pool of opposition mj had when he was winning.
I'm well aware of them thanks. I was just pointing out to edscottable that Magic Johnson (and the LA Lakers) was FAR from a spent force when they met the Bulls in the 91 Finals.
@edscottable so a team in the pistons who was going for their 3rd title in a row that year and a laker team that had been to their 3rd NBA finals in 4 years werent champions? they had to go up against great new york knicks teams every year to boot.
@WuAgent i know things academic are argued with data, facts, that sort of thing. i thrive at that in real life. sports however has finite intangibles that can be considered or not in a person's argument. the pistons were still tough but lost the upfront depth that allowed them to beat up on the bulls. mahorn's impact has been underappreciated by history. lakers still won because magic willed them, but with no kareem, or coop, an ailing worthy, and scott just not showing up, it wasn't the same.
Maybe in today's NBA where the best players want to be on the same team together i.e. Miami Heat, the NBA forgot that controversy sells. I don't want to watch an NBA where everybody's friends. If they want to label it a thug league then go ahead. Bring back the Bad Boys Pistons-Bulls rivalries and the Knicks-Bulls rivalries. We all want an emotional game and not teams going out there conceding to defeat just because they're up against Kobe and the Lakers
van gundy never one a championship he can't talk shit and his predictions are always wrong. He humors me whenever i watch him on tv talk crap and make shitty predictions .
Van Gundy, isn't too far off base. I've heard Michael say similar things in press conferences. I remember once, he was talking about 'Zo & the joy he took from seeing 'Zo in the summer & telling him who put his team out of the playoffs. It's no con-game. It's Machiavellian professional. Defense lawyers & prosecutors kick it after court. NBA players get traded all the time. Its intuitive to keep a friendly rapport with your opponents 'cause you never know; they might be teammates 1 day.
Jordan always did the talking on the court by his plays and whenever anyone talked bad about him, the opposition would usually get beat by his plays on the court. That's what man is made out of and he is the prime example of NOT running you mouth instead of trash talking back and forth. His compassion of playing and loving the game of basketball is REAL.
@ShirtOffLJay ///// those intros were perfect frames for the upcoming games. it gave the games a certain flair. you waited on games like a weekly television drama.
you could call anyone a con man if thats the case...when i get on the court i LOVE to dominate my friends much more than some random guy at the rec center..best friends make great rivals is the way i look at it
@MrFan32 sorry i have to disagree, it never gets old dominating my friends on the court...however i will say that i would enjoy beating trash talking strangers too...thats equal fun =)
@treezX i dont know, the experience of dominating friends can be easily duplicated, beating a worthy opponent while trash talking like shi is bonerific
@treezX i got to agree with you...i love when players from other neighborhoods come to my park thinking they can run everybody off and once the game gets going the trash talking begin thats when it get real fun and the pressure builds as the game goes on and when u hit that last shot to win i just tell them to get the fuck off my court lol
@treezX I agree. Plus you need someone you know to motivate you. My friends & I all play on the same team in our games we play hard & then let up once we knew we won but against each other in pick up or practice we GO AT EACH OTHER. After we're done playing we go to someone's house to eat or go out to eat.
@CaliHydroponic Fact of life: if you are really, really good at something and especially if you are the so called "greatest", you are probably not the most pleasant chap in your profession. To become that good you have to be willing to destroy some people, and nobody was better at that than MJ.
I realised this again while watching Lakers lose to Dallas, and Kobe stopped shooting. MJ would've shot until his arms fall off, trying to do anything to keep his team in the game.
@75samuel75 dude in case you didn't notice, they double teamed kobe the whole second half of that game. two dallas players chased him off the pick and roll every single time and when he posted up on the wing, 2 and 3 players would crowd around him. in the first half when he was going one on one, he scored 13 points in the first quater alone. the lakers were down and dallas knew that kobe was gonna come out shooting his ass off in the second half to bring his team back so they doubled him
@92plana Yes because doubleteaming has never happened to other stars right? That goes back to what I think is Kobe's biggest weakness: shot selection and moving without the basketball. The best part about the triple-post offense is movement without the ball, so you will get quick shots without having to dribble too much, thus not allowing double teams to set. Yet most of Kobe's shots come from one on one, isolations and a lot of dribbling. And he's played in that offense for ten yrs!
@75samuel75 that's easy for you to say because you haven't played for 15 straight years and been in the nba since the age of 17. at this stage of kobe's career, he's not gonna have the energy to run away from double teams for a whole half by moving without the ball. and besides thats never been his style of play anyway. and to you he has a bad shot selection, but to kobe it's just tough shots that he is capabable of making. kobe is the best shot maker ever. no one has made more tough shots
Has NOTHING to do with age. Do you know anything about basketball? I doubt it. Triple-post is a moving offense, where you set,and get, a lot of picks. Yet Kobe relies, and has always relied, on dribbling a lot and shooting off his dribble. Which is totally against the said system that Jackson has run his whole career. He has never been good at moving without the ball, so he ends up with bad shots and forced jumpers.
Making 45% of shots does not equal the best shotmaker...idiot.
@92plana It is clear you have never played basketball and you know nothing about basketball. Playing in an offensive system is not age-related. It offers certain type of shots (look at Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Scottie Pippen, MJ, Kerr, Longley, Horace Grant) if you work within the system.
In short: Dribbling behind a 3-point line, taking terrible shots against defenders and making a few doesn't mean u are a great shotmaker, it means you have terrible shot selection.This discussion is over.
@75samuel75 so age has nothing to do with a player not being as good as they once was and not having as much energy and durability as they once had in their earlier years? when jordan was in his 15th year i didn't see him moving without the ball and running off of screens like a chicken with his head cut off either. you know why? cause he was old and tired and had alot of wear and tear on his body just like kobe is right now. and kobe didn't take two years off and come back like mj did either
@92plana If taking two yrs off to you is the same as playing baseball 6-8 hrs a day then i guess he took "time off". You didn't see MJ move without the ball? What games were you watching? He was 32-35yrs old when they had the 2nd three-peat, and after coming back from baseball he completely changed his game so he could still continue to dominate. Less dunking, more in the post, moving within the system to get himself open. Kobe doesn't posses the skills or have the basketball IQ to do that.
@75samuel75 playing baseball 6-8 hrs a day? get the fuck outta here. that's bullshit. NFL players don't even play football 6-8 hrs a day and their sport is way more intense than baseball. like i said before, jordan had time off. and i'll give you the IQ, but as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player to ever play the game whether you wanna admit it or not.
"as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player to ever play the game"
Then WHERE'S the consistently superior on-court production in the skilled facets of the game, which are the RESULTS of this alleged superior skill to PROVE it?
I keep asking this question, because that comment is 1 of the DUMBEST comments made by U stupid ass kobe homers.
How in the hell can U be more skilled than the next guy at something, that U consistently fair WORSE at than him.
@blackadam06 kareem abdul jabar has thousands of more career points than jordan and he has a higher career field goal percentage than jordan, does that mean kareem was more skilled than jordan was? fuck no. fuck results. results deals with consistency, skills is how well you can do things on the court, not how much you can produce. as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player ever. period
1st of all dumb ass, Kareem played MORE yrs & a different position (center), so he SHOULD have more pts & a higher FG%...SMH
That's a pathetic and AWFUL attempt at a comparison LOL!! Kobe & MJ play the SAME position, and in the SAME offense.
"skills is how well you can do things on the court"
Which is consistently reflected in the RESULTS of their play! Why do U think kobe consistently shoots 80+% in freethrows?!! It's because he's SKILLED at it!
You are, quite clearly, the most fundamentally DUMB Kobe-homer currently operating on YouTube... and that takes some doing considering the wackos who frequent this site spewing their deluded views.
Yet here you are, trying to argue that essentially results, stats and the overall effectiveness of a player is irrelevant and that the ONLY way to judge a player is by their "skills"? Man you are one IDIOTIC guy! :)
@ChaosCat79 i never said overall effectiveness of a player is irrelevant when judging a player. i don't recall myself saying that kobe was the greatest player ever, i only said that kobe had the greatest skills ever. there's a difference. skills does not equal overall. i could say that reggie miller is the greatest 3 point shooter ever, but that doesn't mean i'm saying that reggie miller is the greatest player ever. you're the one who's the retard
"i only said that kobe had the greatest skills ever"
It's IMPOSSIBLE to have the "greatest skills ever" at anything when there are others in your field that consistently produce SUPERIOR results at it than yourself.
You'd have to be galactically STUPID to believe some bullsh*t like that, which is what kobe homers tend to be.
U ALWAYS claim he's so much more skilled at something than the next guy, but can't explain WHY he doesn't excel at superior rate at it than that other guy..
@92plana So where do you see that "skill"? Not in consistency, not in the playoffs, not during regular season, not in defense, not in leadership...so where? Again, if taking god-awful shots that you don't need to take in the first place and disappearing in big playoff games is skill, then Kobe is awesome. Otherwise he's just a very good player who has tremendous flaws in his game, the same flaws he's had from day one.
@92plana KOBE IS THE MOST SKILLED PLAYER EVER MJ IS STILL BETTER THO MJ TOOK WAY BETTER SHOTS THAN KOBE , KOBE HAS A TENDENCY TO TAKE BAD SHOTS. MJ HAD BIGGER HANDS WHICH HELPED IN FINISHING AT THE RIM AND BALL CONTROL MJ WAS ALSO PHYSICALLY BIGGER AND STRONGER. BUT KOBE IS EXTREMELY SKILLED BUT MJ IS BETTER THO NOT MORE SKILLED BUT A BETTER OVERALL PLAYER.
@75samuel75 yeah im amazed on how Kobe drops points and other else, his game during the playoffs, i thought i was like i was bias to say that but really, mj was better during playoffs and even the finlas, he has so many great moments..one may argue those moments are keys to the championships not just simple shots.
@75samuel75 You're pointing out his flaws as if no one else has them. He consistently averages over 20 points, he's led his team to the playoffs nearly 10 straight years, he's led his team to 7 finals appearances, 15 years in the NBA he's been named to the NBA's All Defensive team 10 times, many sports analysts say he's one of the best leaders in the NBA."God-awful shots"? He shoots nearly 50% for his career and is noted as one of the smartest players in the league. He has 5 rings for a reason.
@SupremelyMikey I agree with some stuff you said, but .454 is NOT close to 50%, it's close to 45% which isn't that great. Plus, the last 3 or four all defensive team selections for Kobe have been on reputation, as he is an average defender these days. He has five rings because of great interior play covering his mistakes, first Shaq, then collectively Pau and Andrew. This isn't to say that he didn't do anything to earn the titles
@92plana Look how many years Kareem played...way more than Jordan...Jordan was so nice he could take breaks from the game and come back and 3 peat...Kareem couldnt do that.
@92plana Kobe the most skilled player ever? On what planet? The higher the skill, the higher the consistency, you should know that. If you exel at something, then you can repeat it over and over and over again. What Kobe can repeat is his disappearance at playoff time when things don't go his way, just like he did this year.
If "skill is how well you can do on the court" means shooting terrible threes when you got nothing else, then yes he is the most skilled
@92plana You do realise that a baseball game takes about 3-4 hrs, with warm-ups included. If you ever watch something else outside of cartoons, maybe you should try to check out some documentaries. ESPN even made one of Jordan playing baseball. Dude was hitting and fielding every morning, then played the game, and did the same drills after the game. You think that is "time off"? When most of athletic baseball players are stronger and faster than basketball players? Way to be delusional.
Hey man in can U haven't noticed, 92plana is a moron, and the typical dumb kobe homer.
He bases his opinions on 2 min ESPN segments & 5-7 min youtube vids, but not on the whole 48 min game. A full game reveals the players judgement on offense, how they rotate on defense, their in game decisions, which U DON'T SEE on ESPN or these Youtube highlights.
And I do agree that he was selfish when he was younger. Phil Jackson changed that later in his career. He definitely wasn't the leader or defender that Russell was, although he's the closest, he definitely didn't have the court vision that Magic had. He was clutch like Bird&West, could fly like Dr. J, pull up and hit jumpers like Elgon Baylor. But I'll give it to you he never beat Bird's Celtics but he did beat a great Lakers team in 91... without Kareem... i do the he's the greatest of all time
@moose423 he was only selfish early on because the bulls were terrible..the lottery didnt start til 85 so the bulls had the 3rd worst record when they got him..when he broke his foot and missed 70 games the bulls went 30-52..all he had was charles oakley back then..when he retired he had a real coach and a real team that won 55 games without him..any man that can wake up 3 hrs before a game on 5 hrs sleep and win a title or score 35 and 6 treys in a half plus the 72-10 and 63 pts is good w/ me
@big973e Yea I agree with u. The guy I was talking to said Jordan started winning when the competition became easier. Once Magic, Bird and Isiah retired is when MJ started winning championships. Its the first legitimate argument I've heard against MJ being the greatest. While the guy made a good point... i still think MJ is the greatest of all time.
@TheBDavis13 dude i agree with u someone was trying to tell me jordan had easier competition read a few more comments dumb ass. i think mj is the G.O.A.T.
@moose423 the competition didnt get easier he got better and got phil and scottie...bird and magic both had to retire ealry....he destroyed the pistons and their jordan rules defense, the blazers had already lost the 90 finals, charles barkely was the 93 mvp, the 96 sonics squad was prolly their best ever besides the 95 team, and the jazz destroyed the west until they met chicago...plus the knicks, hawks, magic, pacers, and cavs all got handled by the bulls.....that guy doesnt know his history
@big973e dude i know you're saying the exact same thing i said to this guy. read more of the comments and argue with him. jordan did beat the pistons and i don't think they were past their prime they were the back to back champs going into the 1990-91 season! magic averaged like 19&11 in 1991 and worthy put up 21 a game. they just didn't have kareem. i think jordan's the greatest of all time u don't have to argue with me on that cuz i agree with u.
@moose423 yeah i'm not arguing with you i'm just sayin that other dude doesnt know his history....jordan ended the celtics, pistons, and lakers dominance.....he kept the hawks, cavs, pacers, and knicks from being big in the 90's......and the list of players he can say denied a title(dominique, drexler, barkley, ewing, miller, payton, kemp, malone, stockton, mark price and brad daugherety) its crazy...almost all of these guys are in the HOF with no title mainly because of jordan
@big973e yea i agree. take jordan out of the equation and barkley, stockton, malone, payton and kemp all have rings most likely... maybe more than one.
@Kewlaidez yeah i know and drexler got one in 95 with houston but i'm sayin that there is a nice list of HOF's that have no ring because of one denominator: mj.....in their prime when they went head-to-head with mj, mj won every battle......the only team that really ever stopped mj were the 90 pistons but he got his revenge the next year...the bulls of the 80's were just too young and not talented enough to compete for a title
@big973e he was putting up 6-8 assists a night even when they were terrible, and shooting 50%. If you score 30+ and shoot 50%+ and give that many assists, there are many words I would use but selfish is not one of them.
Actually I'm a Celts fan have been since the 80s. No I don't hate m.j. the argument was Jordan didn't beat the elite teams of his era. Watch ESPN guys say it alot that he had an easier league to win in. I don't lie or make stuff up. I go by what I see and stats.Mike was the greatest Athlete to ever play in the NBA hands down I can admit that. But at least admit that he wasn't the greatest basketball player ever. He didn't have the court vision or smarts like a magic bird Russell.
@jhhead m.j could break peoples knees with his fakes and speed. he was an amazing jumper and great jump shooter. yes. that is a amazing athlete. but he didnt have the leadership skills from day 1 in the league. i dont believe there is a greatest basket ball player ever. because there was things that jordan wasnt the best at. russell was probably the greatest shot blocker/defender ever. magic and larry had the ball handling/court vision and team leadership. kareems inside scoring.
@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had to talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
If you were around in Jordan's early days (before the rings and Championships) people were saying the same thing about Jordan that's being said today about Lebron. He proved them wrong, hopfully Lebron will too
Ha, get real. Lebron is more athletic, but athleticism is only part of what made Jordan great. Lebron doesn't have the mental toughness that Jordan had. He was perhaps the most mentally tough athlete I have ever seen. Lebron has 0 rings, 1 scoring championship, no defensive 1st teams and no defensive player of the year awards. Jerry West said Jordan was even better at defense than he was at offense. Sorry, but Lebron has an enormous way to go before that conversation.
@bohallor Lebron is not more athletic he's just on steroids. Look at his face - its a fucking square... and he keeps getting freakishly bigger the way Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa did by the time they passed Roger Maris single season home run record in 1998. How has nobody even noticed this about Lebron yet? Drug test him... he's on steroids. The league would NEVER nail him on it cuz he makes the NBA a lot of money but seriously... just look at him....
MJ isn't only the leading scorer in the history of the game, not total points just his per game average, he is also one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Nice try though.
@moose423 but jordan won his titles in a talent deficient league. bird,magic,dr.j, kareem and moses malone all retired by 92. by 91 POOF jordan starts winning? he beat barkley? malone? 0 rings there, an old lakers team way past thier prime? here is a history lesson. he never beat bird in the playoffs,it took him 4 tries to beat the pistons who were the second best team in the east . the sixers,pistons, celtics, lakers,and rockets were powerhouses. jordan didnt beat any of em till 91. FACT
@jhhead Thanks for the history lesson. You're right he never beat Bird in the playoffs. He beat Magic and if by old you mean Magic averaging a double double and James Worthy getting better than 21 a game than yeah... they were old. Vlade was young and he was pretty good. Magic was still Magic - old or not he put up a double double 19&12 - Jordan got the Pistons but in 91 they weren't old they were the back to back champs, Barkley, Stockton and Malone are in the HOF. They didn't win cuz of MJ.
@moose423 the pistons werent aging? bill laimbeer , vinnie johnson and isiah thomas were together since 1982. in 91 they were in thier mid 30s, 34- 36 to be exact. the only guys 30 & under was dumars and rodman. detriot beat the bulls 3 yrs in a row 88,89 and 90. you dont mention that. and you compare vlade to kareem? the showtime lakers also had byron scott. a c green was a bench guy,thats how deep the showtime lakers were. showtime would have swept the bulls just like boston did. admit it.
@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
@moose423 the bulls played a few of the top teams in the playoffs from 85 to 91. in 85 they lost to the bucks then they lost to the celtics twice ( swept twice ) then pistons 3 yrs in a row. ok ill even give you the argument that mj didnt have pippen and grant in 85 86. but he had them in all of those losses to the pistons. by 91 jordan was a big fish in a very small fish bowl. and hof's you mentioned werent the type of players to carry a team to a ring like magic,russell,bird or a jordan.
@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
@jhhead@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
@moose423 oh and you are welcome for the history lesson. your homework for next class is to write me a turn paper on the career/playoff success of m.j before the yr 1991. im not sure if you are aware of this or not but,,,he acually played in the nba and and his teams were quite unsuccessfull before the yr mentoned above. that is all for today,,, class dismissed
@jhhead Here's a history lesson for u bud. Jordan didn't have Pippen in Grant until 1987 - how right you are - but Pippen wasn't Pippen until Jordan kicked his ass in practice every day and made him a better player. I'm not talking about the Pippen who sat out cuz of headaches I'm talking about the Pippen who played thru the pain of slipped discs in his back. And yeah - Lambeer, Thomas and Vinnie Johnson were 34-36. Jordan won three straight titles from 96-98... he was 35 in 1998.
@moose423 magic in 79-80 played center in game 7 of the finals. kareem was hurt. his numbers? 42-15-7. playing CENTER. AS A ROOKIE. m.j never came close to what bird and magic did to make thier TEAMS better from day 1 in the nba. the proof is in the numbers as i have shown you. and yes jordan won when he was 35. again who was left in the league to beat them? no one. legends make thier teams better not thier stats or egos at a hof speech. wow this is like pistol whipping a blind kid. lol
@jhhead Yeah that is my defense. Did Pippen average 7.9 points a game when he was winning championships? Let me tear u up a lil bud. My argument isn't that Jordan is a cut above Bird and Magic. They owned the 80's - u want a medal for realizing that? My argument is the fact that u said the 90's was talent deficient. Yeah all the names I mentioned were drafted in the 80's but they played in the 90's. Did Stockton&Malone get to the finals in the 80's? Did Ewing and Barkley get there in the 80's?
@jhhead You can try and argue with me all day. I'm not even sure what your argument is... what is your argument? That Michael Jordan isn't really that good? You're either a fool or a Knicks fan if u think that.
@moose423 there are so many things that make up a full player. jordan was a point scorer from day 1. a unmatched machine. he was a good defender but not the best. he didnt learn how to lead a team until 6-7 yrs later. m.j teammates even said that it took him yrs to realize that he needed to trust and guide his team. and by the time he learned he had easier competition than he did his earlier in his career. thats all im saying.
@jhhead He had easier competition? The Knicks played the Bulls just like Detroit did. They tried to beat the Bulls up. Ewing's Knicks were pretty damn good in the 90s. never won tho cuz of MJ. In 92 the Blazers were another team that was really good. They had made it to the finals a few times in the 80s. Orlando was good in 96 and the Jazz were a very good team. If the talent did drop it didn't drop by much. And certainly not enough to make Jordan's legacy less than what it is.
@jhhead Not to mention the fact that Pippen was 33 and I think Rodman was 36 when they won in 98. The back to back champs were too old in 91? Yeah... they were getting old but Jordan put them out of their misery and pulled the plug on them. Take Jordan out and maybe the pistons three peat in 91. As for the NBA being talentless in the 90's let me run these names by you. Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Kemp, Payton, Mourning, Johnson, Shaq, Penny, Hakeem, Drexler, David Robinson... talentless?
@moose423 thats your defense? pippen wasnt pippen yet? lol. let me tear you up again. did you realize that almost every player you named were drafted and played in the 80's besides shaq, penny ( who isnt hof material anyway ) ? stockton-84,malone-85,barkley-84,drexler-83,hakeem-85,robinson-89,kemp-89. you have proven my point again that the talent pool and existing talent in the nba was much better in the 80s.
Jordan: 6 rings & beat Magic in the Finals... and that Lakers team wasn't as old as Jordan's Bulls team in 1998
Magic: 5 rings&lost to Jordan in 1991 cuz he lost Kareem as a teammate
Bird: 3 Rings&good for him he beat Jordan&Orlando Woolridge
Are Magic and Bird better cuz they played in the 80s? ... that's your opinion. The 80s were great but don't tell me the 90s was a talent deficient era in the NBA. You're just a Jordan hater if u say that.
@jhhead or r u just bias cuz u grew up watching the game in the 80's? You brought up some good points. He did win once Bird, Magic and Isiah faded the same way Shaq, Kobe and Duncan started winning once the Bulls were dismantled in the 90s.
@moose423 and your point about the the talent around mj bird and magic? in birds rookie season, the team finnished 61-24 AND went to the ecf. the previous season the celts finnished 29-53. 32 more wins. up to that point it was the greatest single season turnaround in nba history. and guess what? no mchale,no parrish and no d.j. same roster as the previous season. quite a feat for a rookie right? then in his 2nd season celts win it all. so there goes your point of larry had talent around him.
@jhhead Since you seem like a huge basketball fan you know the answer. They all got to the finals in the 90's. So don't sit there and tell me that the NBA was talent deficient in the 90's. Also there's no way Bird's team when 61-24 in his rookie season cuz they have never played 85 games in the regular season. If you think my argument is "Michael Jordan Is God" you're wrong. Forget Bird and Magic for a second. How about Wilt, Kareem, Jerry West, Baylor... the NBA has NEVER been talent deficient.
@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
@jhhead@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
Jordan should have bitch slapped that little ho, Van Gundy, when he walked past him.
jejujohn 2 weeks ago
Jordan was a total con man when it came to manipulating friend or foe to win. The only person I've seen that was so good at getting in people's heads was when I watched the "Pumping Iron" documentary and how Arnold messed with Ferrigno. I'm a Bulls fan and Jordan is the greatest but he wasn't really a nice guy when it came to winning.
ActaNonVerba71 1 month ago
THE GOAT. When Kobe can score 40 at 40 than we can talk. Kobe scoring 40 at 33 doesnt meat shit. Michael probably AVARAGED almost 40 at age 33. LOL. oh by the way, best defender in the league at 33 and for sure averaged more rebounds and assists. And with hand checking defenders. Not even close.
hoochymama 1 month ago
people just need to stop saying kobe or any of these other fools are better than MJ. When you have Magic, Larry, and the rest of the free world saying MJ is the best basketball player to every play....that's because MJ is the best basketball player to ever play. This dude played at age 40 with destroyed knees against todays "stars" and could still takeover a game whenever he wanted. Dont waste your time comparing him to anyone
Silverpatrone15 2 months ago
yeah.... look at that loser OAKLEY. He practically gave MJ a red carpet to drive to the lane. One time he gave MJ a semi-hard sanitized foul so it wouldn't look to obvious. That's why OAK has ZERO RING. It was 6 vs. 4 when Bulls played against the Knicks. I heard a bell hop in Vegas beat the crap out of OAK. I hope the bell hop's fists are OK.
BahoWetpu 3 months ago
I think Jordan plays better when people drive him mad. He get his motivations from these people like Jeff Van Gundy.
s1692914 3 months ago
somebody got schooled!
damezgal 4 months ago
kobe > mj
fenomnx 5 months ago
@fenomnx hahahahaha,man arn't you a stupid dork
SoutheGarden 5 months ago
@fenomnx Kobe doesn't even agree with you.
ChicagoFan32 2 months ago
I would expect such an audacious claim to be supported by a considerable amount of evidence. You see how this works? I can say anything, and if I have no reputable sources for support to what I say, am I really saying anything? Kobe Bryant is white, Kim Kardashian has a small ass, Lebron is good in the clutch; these are examples of your argument, an asinine claim which makes no sense, which obviously is not accompanied by any supporting facts.
ChicagoFan32 1 month ago
jeff probably bet on MJ to score 50+ so he did what he had to do LOL...
wornoutshoes11 5 months ago
what does that even mean!?!
uses friendships to win
JellyFishPuddin 6 months ago
aye is there any way i could get the rodman video?
devinand1fosho 6 months ago
How is be-friending people and then trying to beat them in a sport a con?
When I play pick-up basketball I probably play my friends harder than anyone and vice-versa.
RobertBalto 6 months ago
magic 9 finals appearances in 11 years. let's call that shit that mike got sloppy seconds.
edscottable 7 months ago
Say what you will about Van Gundy and what a dork he is, but he spoke the unadulterated truth about Jordan here. People hate it, but the truth hurts.
soyfity 7 months ago
@soyfity lol how is that truth ? Not only is it not true, it doesnt even make sense. My BEST friend knows good and well i will do everything in my power to win against him in a basketball game. Just like i know he will do the same. And our game means nothing but bragging rights. Jordan didnt need to try and con anyone, his skills were all he needed. You actually think MJ said to himself " i bet if i act like i care about this guy he will think i wont play as hard against him !" lmao how stupid.
ReALiTeeChEkk 5 months ago
Two big personalities in the game: Jordan & Van Gundy
whateverthehellz 7 months ago
sixers, celtics, lakers, pistons beat champions to win championships. michael beat magic, thats a fact. but just like larry holmes beat ali, you gets no card for whooping an old ass man. in mho, this past decade of champions - spurs, lakers, celtics, pistons - was deeper than the pool of opposition mj had when he was winning.
edscottable 8 months ago
@edscottable
Magic's 90-91 regular season stats:
79 games (79 starts): 19.4ppg/47.7fg%/32.0 3p%/7rpg/12.5apg (2nd most that season)/1.3spg/
90-91 playoffs (including the NBA Finals): 21.8ppg/44fg%/29.6 3p%/8.1rpg/12.6apg/
Hmmm, looks like Jordan was whooping an "old ass man" there. (Magic was 31 years old by the way)
ChaosCat79 7 months ago
@ChaosCat79 lol, google mj's stats when he was 31..
yagbadudel17 7 months ago
@yagbadudel17
I'm well aware of them thanks. I was just pointing out to edscottable that Magic Johnson (and the LA Lakers) was FAR from a spent force when they met the Bulls in the 91 Finals.
ChaosCat79 7 months ago
@edscottable so a team in the pistons who was going for their 3rd title in a row that year and a laker team that had been to their 3rd NBA finals in 4 years werent champions? they had to go up against great new york knicks teams every year to boot.
poor argument
WuAgent 7 months ago
@WuAgent i know things academic are argued with data, facts, that sort of thing. i thrive at that in real life. sports however has finite intangibles that can be considered or not in a person's argument. the pistons were still tough but lost the upfront depth that allowed them to beat up on the bulls. mahorn's impact has been underappreciated by history. lakers still won because magic willed them, but with no kareem, or coop, an ailing worthy, and scott just not showing up, it wasn't the same.
edscottable 7 months ago
@WuAgent i'd take the '87 lakers vs any bulls team
edscottable 7 months ago
@edscottable magic was in his 11th year in the league. jordan won 3 more championships in his 11th 12th and 13th years in the league.
WuAgent 7 months ago
Hollywood Hogan and Easy E at 1.01
oldsiamsir24 8 months ago 2
Van Gundy is a tool. Jordan just wants to win, that's his competitive nature.
bulls4life19 8 months ago
JVG and john starks clicked dislike.
500ncb 8 months ago
2:00
There's Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan in the nWo gear!! lol
puffykilled2pac 9 months ago
NOOOO!!!! They lost the next game!!!!
shaisheshaun 9 months ago
Gotta love Hogan and Bischoff sitting behind Van Gundy rocking NWO gear!
TSmitty3000 9 months ago in playlist Basketball
.....I just got three words to say.....Fuck Van Gundy. Barkley and him should have their own TV show. Bunch of whiners.
TrunkDaPhunk 9 months ago
When did basketball turn into a episode of Survivor?
robinho1979 9 months ago
is tha thibodeau at 0:46 on the right?
Cezer35 9 months ago
Jordan and Pippen will not win championships if coach by the van gundy's
Jemaro671 9 months ago
@Jemaro671 Oh yeah they would because Jordan and Pippen will coach the team theirself on the court
mistanderson 9 months ago
@Jemaro671
so true!
meroavi 9 months ago
Maybe in today's NBA where the best players want to be on the same team together i.e. Miami Heat, the NBA forgot that controversy sells. I don't want to watch an NBA where everybody's friends. If they want to label it a thug league then go ahead. Bring back the Bad Boys Pistons-Bulls rivalries and the Knicks-Bulls rivalries. We all want an emotional game and not teams going out there conceding to defeat just because they're up against Kobe and the Lakers
Summerslam96 10 months ago
van gundy never one a championship he can't talk shit and his predictions are always wrong. He humors me whenever i watch him on tv talk crap and make shitty predictions .
whitesoxWS 10 months ago
@whitesoxWS He's a dickhead but he's allowed to talk shit. Everyone is.
upabittoolate 10 months ago
@upabittoolate True
whitesoxWS 10 months ago
Van Gundy, isn't too far off base. I've heard Michael say similar things in press conferences. I remember once, he was talking about 'Zo & the joy he took from seeing 'Zo in the summer & telling him who put his team out of the playoffs. It's no con-game. It's Machiavellian professional. Defense lawyers & prosecutors kick it after court. NBA players get traded all the time. Its intuitive to keep a friendly rapport with your opponents 'cause you never know; they might be teammates 1 day.
upabittoolate 10 months ago
Jordan always did the talking on the court by his plays and whenever anyone talked bad about him, the opposition would usually get beat by his plays on the court. That's what man is made out of and he is the prime example of NOT running you mouth instead of trash talking back and forth. His compassion of playing and loving the game of basketball is REAL.
dmnapp23 11 months ago
Modern NBA has lost all of its glory.. something D.Rose is bringing back.
PEPEelZAPATISTA 11 months ago 4
@PEPEelZAPATISTA That's what I feel Rose is doing
Summerslam96 10 months ago
Lesson #1 - Don't mess with MJ! Because he will not forget while he scores 51 points
KWCline91 11 months ago
Full-blown Eff You mode
pharcyd00 1 year ago
Jordan Ah MF Beast!!!!!!!
94RetroKiid 1 year ago
in the past we see characters letting out their true feelings. now we see robots playing
500ncb 1 year ago
I miss the intro music for NBA on NBC
wvu212 1 year ago 4
van gundy a douche back then and a douche today...what a shocker.
props for the upload. mj>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
slawschic 1 year ago 2
MJ trying to be the best player he can be and disregarding everyone else in the NBA? no way!
MushaSaint 1 year ago
MJ tried to destroy people on the court Jeff?
no foolin...
PorkFrog 1 year ago
jeff van gundy is the pee wee herman of pro basketball. period.
badjman84 1 year ago
Van Gundy simply took it personal.
likedamaster 1 year ago
if you never saw the NBA on NBC you missed out on greatness that will never be recreated.
ShirtOffLJay 1 year ago 71
@ShirtOffLJay You only say that because it brings out those good old feelings of the olds day, but it's just a network man.
neerrg 1 year ago
@neerrg NO! HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT!!
ShirtOffLJay 1 year ago
@ShirtOffLJay
how so....
Pain5155 1 year ago
@ShirtOffLJay Amen I was raised in the 90's you're preaching to the choir (ha ha ha).
ExodusPessoa 11 months ago
@ShirtOffLJay NEVER recreated.
upabittoolate 10 months ago
@ShirtOffLJay What was so great about it?
la2449lakers 9 months ago
@la2449lakers i can tell youre a young kobe dickrider
ShirtOffLJay 9 months ago
@ShirtOffLJay Ur a faggot I ask u a question and u call me a dickrider. ur a Jordan dick rider.
la2449lakers 9 months ago
@ShirtOffLJay ///// those intros were perfect frames for the upcoming games. it gave the games a certain flair. you waited on games like a weekly television drama.
MrHavok29 8 months ago
@ShirtOffLJay I wouldnt say never. They just need to bring the music back and finally get a new Jordan
jimmybonez1985 7 months ago
you could call anyone a con man if thats the case...when i get on the court i LOVE to dominate my friends much more than some random guy at the rec center..best friends make great rivals is the way i look at it
treezX 1 year ago 27
@treezX Agreed man
evandroferreiradanie 11 months ago
@treezX real shit
sillyflow 9 months ago
@treezX it gets boring dominating friends, when u dominate a bunch of trash talking strangers, it's beauty, that's real animosity
MrFan32 7 months ago
@MrFan32 sorry i have to disagree, it never gets old dominating my friends on the court...however i will say that i would enjoy beating trash talking strangers too...thats equal fun =)
treezX 7 months ago
@treezX i dont know, the experience of dominating friends can be easily duplicated, beating a worthy opponent while trash talking like shi is bonerific
MrFan32 7 months ago
@treezX i got to agree with you...i love when players from other neighborhoods come to my park thinking they can run everybody off and once the game gets going the trash talking begin thats when it get real fun and the pressure builds as the game goes on and when u hit that last shot to win i just tell them to get the fuck off my court lol
CHITOWN1987 7 months ago
@treezX I agree. Plus you need someone you know to motivate you. My friends & I all play on the same team in our games we play hard & then let up once we knew we won but against each other in pick up or practice we GO AT EACH OTHER. After we're done playing we go to someone's house to eat or go out to eat.
exquisitebb 5 months ago
you dont piss off MJ, thats one thing you dont do! cuz he will light ure team up!
prettyafro 1 year ago
You fuck with the GOAT, you get the horns.
Friendships don't exist between sirens.
If anything, most people want to dominate their friends even more.
Or is that just me?
firecrakka 1 year ago
Man I miss the 90's!!!
spidavenom4 1 year ago
haha atleast van gundy realized to never motivate jordan. just dont fuck with the GOAT
optimusman88 1 year ago 2
MJ is the best... End of Discussion...
juggernautjr023 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@juggernautjr023 there was no discussion.
chicagobullsify 1 year ago
van gundy has now Jordan curse for ever
karolw91 1 year ago
Jeff Van Gundy = Major Tool
ThomasJowers0 1 year ago
No question about it hes the best Shooting Guard that has ever played in the NBA but hes a fucking dickhead lol
CaliHydroponic 1 year ago
@CaliHydroponic how is mj a dickhead? please tell me...
kbplaya123 1 year ago
@CaliHydroponic Fact of life: if you are really, really good at something and especially if you are the so called "greatest", you are probably not the most pleasant chap in your profession. To become that good you have to be willing to destroy some people, and nobody was better at that than MJ.
I realised this again while watching Lakers lose to Dallas, and Kobe stopped shooting. MJ would've shot until his arms fall off, trying to do anything to keep his team in the game.
75samuel75 10 months ago
@75samuel75 dude in case you didn't notice, they double teamed kobe the whole second half of that game. two dallas players chased him off the pick and roll every single time and when he posted up on the wing, 2 and 3 players would crowd around him. in the first half when he was going one on one, he scored 13 points in the first quater alone. the lakers were down and dallas knew that kobe was gonna come out shooting his ass off in the second half to bring his team back so they doubled him
92plana 10 months ago
@92plana Yes because doubleteaming has never happened to other stars right? That goes back to what I think is Kobe's biggest weakness: shot selection and moving without the basketball. The best part about the triple-post offense is movement without the ball, so you will get quick shots without having to dribble too much, thus not allowing double teams to set. Yet most of Kobe's shots come from one on one, isolations and a lot of dribbling. And he's played in that offense for ten yrs!
75samuel75 10 months ago
@75samuel75 that's easy for you to say because you haven't played for 15 straight years and been in the nba since the age of 17. at this stage of kobe's career, he's not gonna have the energy to run away from double teams for a whole half by moving without the ball. and besides thats never been his style of play anyway. and to you he has a bad shot selection, but to kobe it's just tough shots that he is capabable of making. kobe is the best shot maker ever. no one has made more tough shots
92plana 10 months ago
@92plana *sigh*
Has NOTHING to do with age. Do you know anything about basketball? I doubt it. Triple-post is a moving offense, where you set,and get, a lot of picks. Yet Kobe relies, and has always relied, on dribbling a lot and shooting off his dribble. Which is totally against the said system that Jackson has run his whole career. He has never been good at moving without the ball, so he ends up with bad shots and forced jumpers.
Making 45% of shots does not equal the best shotmaker...idiot.
75samuel75 10 months ago
@92plana It is clear you have never played basketball and you know nothing about basketball. Playing in an offensive system is not age-related. It offers certain type of shots (look at Ron Harper, Rick Fox, Scottie Pippen, MJ, Kerr, Longley, Horace Grant) if you work within the system.
In short: Dribbling behind a 3-point line, taking terrible shots against defenders and making a few doesn't mean u are a great shotmaker, it means you have terrible shot selection.This discussion is over.
75samuel75 10 months ago 2
@75samuel75 so age has nothing to do with a player not being as good as they once was and not having as much energy and durability as they once had in their earlier years? when jordan was in his 15th year i didn't see him moving without the ball and running off of screens like a chicken with his head cut off either. you know why? cause he was old and tired and had alot of wear and tear on his body just like kobe is right now. and kobe didn't take two years off and come back like mj did either
92plana 10 months ago
@92plana If taking two yrs off to you is the same as playing baseball 6-8 hrs a day then i guess he took "time off". You didn't see MJ move without the ball? What games were you watching? He was 32-35yrs old when they had the 2nd three-peat, and after coming back from baseball he completely changed his game so he could still continue to dominate. Less dunking, more in the post, moving within the system to get himself open. Kobe doesn't posses the skills or have the basketball IQ to do that.
75samuel75 9 months ago
@75samuel75 playing baseball 6-8 hrs a day? get the fuck outta here. that's bullshit. NFL players don't even play football 6-8 hrs a day and their sport is way more intense than baseball. like i said before, jordan had time off. and i'll give you the IQ, but as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player to ever play the game whether you wanna admit it or not.
92plana 9 months ago
@92plana
"as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player to ever play the game"
Then WHERE'S the consistently superior on-court production in the skilled facets of the game, which are the RESULTS of this alleged superior skill to PROVE it?
I keep asking this question, because that comment is 1 of the DUMBEST comments made by U stupid ass kobe homers.
How in the hell can U be more skilled than the next guy at something, that U consistently fair WORSE at than him.
92plana = idiot
blackadam06 9 months ago 8
@92plana
For once, just answer this simple question: what's he more skilled at?
Offense? Yeah right..
3pt shooting? Maybe
Assists? MJ consistently avg'd more apg than him, despite kobe having a higher usage rate, which means he has the ball in his hands more than MJ.
Rebounding? MJ consistently avg'd more rpg, and is #3 All Time in total rebs for guards & #1 in offensive rebs for guards
Steals & blocks..hell defense? C'mon man..MJ's resume speaks for itself.
So what's he more skilled at?
blackadam06 9 months ago
@blackadam06 AS FAR AS SKILLS, KOBE IS THE MOST SKILLED PLAYER TO EVER PLAY THE GAME
92plana 9 months ago
@92plana
Then where's the RESULTS of this alleged superior skill?
Why can't answer the question? It's because U & I BOTH know it's a bullshit statement.
U dumb kobe homers like to claim that, well..let's see the results of his superior skill....just show us the "on-court" proof of it..
blackadam06 9 months ago 3
@blackadam06 kareem abdul jabar has thousands of more career points than jordan and he has a higher career field goal percentage than jordan, does that mean kareem was more skilled than jordan was? fuck no. fuck results. results deals with consistency, skills is how well you can do things on the court, not how much you can produce. as far as skills, kobe is the most skilled player ever. period
92plana 9 months ago
@92plana
1st of all dumb ass, Kareem played MORE yrs & a different position (center), so he SHOULD have more pts & a higher FG%...SMH
That's a pathetic and AWFUL attempt at a comparison LOL!! Kobe & MJ play the SAME position, and in the SAME offense.
"skills is how well you can do things on the court"
Which is consistently reflected in the RESULTS of their play! Why do U think kobe consistently shoots 80+% in freethrows?!! It's because he's SKILLED at it!
You're an idiot..SMH
blackadam06 9 months ago
@92plana
You are, quite clearly, the most fundamentally DUMB Kobe-homer currently operating on YouTube... and that takes some doing considering the wackos who frequent this site spewing their deluded views.
Yet here you are, trying to argue that essentially results, stats and the overall effectiveness of a player is irrelevant and that the ONLY way to judge a player is by their "skills"? Man you are one IDIOTIC guy! :)
ChaosCat79 9 months ago
@ChaosCat79 i never said overall effectiveness of a player is irrelevant when judging a player. i don't recall myself saying that kobe was the greatest player ever, i only said that kobe had the greatest skills ever. there's a difference. skills does not equal overall. i could say that reggie miller is the greatest 3 point shooter ever, but that doesn't mean i'm saying that reggie miller is the greatest player ever. you're the one who's the retard
92plana 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@92plana
"i only said that kobe had the greatest skills ever"
It's IMPOSSIBLE to have the "greatest skills ever" at anything when there are others in your field that consistently produce SUPERIOR results at it than yourself.
You'd have to be galactically STUPID to believe some bullsh*t like that, which is what kobe homers tend to be.
U ALWAYS claim he's so much more skilled at something than the next guy, but can't explain WHY he doesn't excel at superior rate at it than that other guy..
blackadam06 9 months ago
@92plana So where do you see that "skill"? Not in consistency, not in the playoffs, not during regular season, not in defense, not in leadership...so where? Again, if taking god-awful shots that you don't need to take in the first place and disappearing in big playoff games is skill, then Kobe is awesome. Otherwise he's just a very good player who has tremendous flaws in his game, the same flaws he's had from day one.
75samuel75 8 months ago 6
@75samuel75 KOBE IS THE MOST SKILLED PLAYER EVER
92plana 8 months ago
@92plana KOBE IS THE MOST SKILLED PLAYER EVER MJ IS STILL BETTER THO MJ TOOK WAY BETTER SHOTS THAN KOBE , KOBE HAS A TENDENCY TO TAKE BAD SHOTS. MJ HAD BIGGER HANDS WHICH HELPED IN FINISHING AT THE RIM AND BALL CONTROL MJ WAS ALSO PHYSICALLY BIGGER AND STRONGER. BUT KOBE IS EXTREMELY SKILLED BUT MJ IS BETTER THO NOT MORE SKILLED BUT A BETTER OVERALL PLAYER.
amunrahII 8 months ago
@amunrahII i agree. finally someone who is not bias
92plana 8 months ago
@75samuel75 yeah im amazed on how Kobe drops points and other else, his game during the playoffs, i thought i was like i was bias to say that but really, mj was better during playoffs and even the finlas, he has so many great moments..one may argue those moments are keys to the championships not just simple shots.
iluvrei 8 months ago 2
@75samuel75 You're pointing out his flaws as if no one else has them. He consistently averages over 20 points, he's led his team to the playoffs nearly 10 straight years, he's led his team to 7 finals appearances, 15 years in the NBA he's been named to the NBA's All Defensive team 10 times, many sports analysts say he's one of the best leaders in the NBA."God-awful shots"? He shoots nearly 50% for his career and is noted as one of the smartest players in the league. He has 5 rings for a reason.
SupremelyMikey 1 month ago
@SupremelyMikey I agree with some stuff you said, but .454 is NOT close to 50%, it's close to 45% which isn't that great. Plus, the last 3 or four all defensive team selections for Kobe have been on reputation, as he is an average defender these days. He has five rings because of great interior play covering his mistakes, first Shaq, then collectively Pau and Andrew. This isn't to say that he didn't do anything to earn the titles
estalling 2 weeks ago
@92plana Look how many years Kareem played...way more than Jordan...Jordan was so nice he could take breaks from the game and come back and 3 peat...Kareem couldnt do that.
MrSlik25 8 months ago
@92plana Kobe the most skilled player ever? On what planet? The higher the skill, the higher the consistency, you should know that. If you exel at something, then you can repeat it over and over and over again. What Kobe can repeat is his disappearance at playoff time when things don't go his way, just like he did this year.
If "skill is how well you can do on the court" means shooting terrible threes when you got nothing else, then yes he is the most skilled
75samuel75 8 months ago
@92plana You do realise that a baseball game takes about 3-4 hrs, with warm-ups included. If you ever watch something else outside of cartoons, maybe you should try to check out some documentaries. ESPN even made one of Jordan playing baseball. Dude was hitting and fielding every morning, then played the game, and did the same drills after the game. You think that is "time off"? When most of athletic baseball players are stronger and faster than basketball players? Way to be delusional.
75samuel75 7 months ago
@75samuel75
Hey man in can U haven't noticed, 92plana is a moron, and the typical dumb kobe homer.
He bases his opinions on 2 min ESPN segments & 5-7 min youtube vids, but not on the whole 48 min game. A full game reveals the players judgement on offense, how they rotate on defense, their in game decisions, which U DON'T SEE on ESPN or these Youtube highlights.
He's completely pathetic, and is an utter moron..
blackadam06 9 months ago
And I do agree that he was selfish when he was younger. Phil Jackson changed that later in his career. He definitely wasn't the leader or defender that Russell was, although he's the closest, he definitely didn't have the court vision that Magic had. He was clutch like Bird&West, could fly like Dr. J, pull up and hit jumpers like Elgon Baylor. But I'll give it to you he never beat Bird's Celtics but he did beat a great Lakers team in 91... without Kareem... i do the he's the greatest of all time
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 he was only selfish early on because the bulls were terrible..the lottery didnt start til 85 so the bulls had the 3rd worst record when they got him..when he broke his foot and missed 70 games the bulls went 30-52..all he had was charles oakley back then..when he retired he had a real coach and a real team that won 55 games without him..any man that can wake up 3 hrs before a game on 5 hrs sleep and win a title or score 35 and 6 treys in a half plus the 72-10 and 63 pts is good w/ me
big973e 1 year ago
@big973e Yea I agree with u. The guy I was talking to said Jordan started winning when the competition became easier. Once Magic, Bird and Isiah retired is when MJ started winning championships. Its the first legitimate argument I've heard against MJ being the greatest. While the guy made a good point... i still think MJ is the greatest of all time.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 When MJ won his first Chip all three of those guys were still in the League. He beat Magic for #1. . .
TheBDavis13 1 year ago
@TheBDavis13 dude i agree with u someone was trying to tell me jordan had easier competition read a few more comments dumb ass. i think mj is the G.O.A.T.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 the competition didnt get easier he got better and got phil and scottie...bird and magic both had to retire ealry....he destroyed the pistons and their jordan rules defense, the blazers had already lost the 90 finals, charles barkely was the 93 mvp, the 96 sonics squad was prolly their best ever besides the 95 team, and the jazz destroyed the west until they met chicago...plus the knicks, hawks, magic, pacers, and cavs all got handled by the bulls.....that guy doesnt know his history
big973e 1 year ago
@big973e dude i know you're saying the exact same thing i said to this guy. read more of the comments and argue with him. jordan did beat the pistons and i don't think they were past their prime they were the back to back champs going into the 1990-91 season! magic averaged like 19&11 in 1991 and worthy put up 21 a game. they just didn't have kareem. i think jordan's the greatest of all time u don't have to argue with me on that cuz i agree with u.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 yeah i'm not arguing with you i'm just sayin that other dude doesnt know his history....jordan ended the celtics, pistons, and lakers dominance.....he kept the hawks, cavs, pacers, and knicks from being big in the 90's......and the list of players he can say denied a title(dominique, drexler, barkley, ewing, miller, payton, kemp, malone, stockton, mark price and brad daugherety) its crazy...almost all of these guys are in the HOF with no title mainly because of jordan
big973e 1 year ago 2
@big973e yea i agree. take jordan out of the equation and barkley, stockton, malone, payton and kemp all have rings most likely... maybe more than one.
moose423 1 year ago
@big973e Payton got one with heats.
Kewlaidez 1 year ago
@Kewlaidez yeah i know and drexler got one in 95 with houston but i'm sayin that there is a nice list of HOF's that have no ring because of one denominator: mj.....in their prime when they went head-to-head with mj, mj won every battle......the only team that really ever stopped mj were the 90 pistons but he got his revenge the next year...the bulls of the 80's were just too young and not talented enough to compete for a title
big973e 1 year ago
@big973e he was putting up 6-8 assists a night even when they were terrible, and shooting 50%. If you score 30+ and shoot 50%+ and give that many assists, there are many words I would use but selfish is not one of them.
75samuel75 10 months ago
Actually I'm a Celts fan have been since the 80s. No I don't hate m.j. the argument was Jordan didn't beat the elite teams of his era. Watch ESPN guys say it alot that he had an easier league to win in. I don't lie or make stuff up. I go by what I see and stats.Mike was the greatest Athlete to ever play in the NBA hands down I can admit that. But at least admit that he wasn't the greatest basketball player ever. He didn't have the court vision or smarts like a magic bird Russell.
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead m.j could break peoples knees with his fakes and speed. he was an amazing jumper and great jump shooter. yes. that is a amazing athlete. but he didnt have the leadership skills from day 1 in the league. i dont believe there is a greatest basket ball player ever. because there was things that jordan wasnt the best at. russell was probably the greatest shot blocker/defender ever. magic and larry had the ball handling/court vision and team leadership. kareems inside scoring.
jhhead 1 year ago
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@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had to talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
man im a cavs fan and man jordan is a lot better then lebron
bearmatrix1 1 year ago
@mrsupremo13 guys like you are stuck in the past and cant accept that kobe and lebron will be better than mj
tothebeaty0 1 year ago
If you were around in Jordan's early days (before the rings and Championships) people were saying the same thing about Jordan that's being said today about Lebron. He proved them wrong, hopfully Lebron will too
marqshaw 1 year ago
I love this, man!!! This is when basketball was at its best!!! Love it!! Thanks for posting.
metavoice 1 year ago
Sorry Guys, LeBron Raymone James > Michael Jeffrey Jordan
tothebeaty0 1 year ago
@tothebeaty0
Ha, get real. Lebron is more athletic, but athleticism is only part of what made Jordan great. Lebron doesn't have the mental toughness that Jordan had. He was perhaps the most mentally tough athlete I have ever seen. Lebron has 0 rings, 1 scoring championship, no defensive 1st teams and no defensive player of the year awards. Jerry West said Jordan was even better at defense than he was at offense. Sorry, but Lebron has an enormous way to go before that conversation.
bohallor 1 year ago
@bohallor Lebron is not more athletic he's just on steroids. Look at his face - its a fucking square... and he keeps getting freakishly bigger the way Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa did by the time they passed Roger Maris single season home run record in 1998. How has nobody even noticed this about Lebron yet? Drug test him... he's on steroids. The league would NEVER nail him on it cuz he makes the NBA a lot of money but seriously... just look at him....
moose423 1 year ago
@tothebeaty0 sorry dude you've never been more wrong in your life. MJ has more MVPs, rings, scoring titles, and finals MVPs. Check out the numbers.
LBJ: 27.8PPG, 7.1RPG, 7.0APG, 3.3TOPG ,1.7SPG, and... 0 RINGS=a proven LOSER.
MJ: 30.1PPG, 6.2RPG, 5.3APG, 2.7TOPG, 2.4SPG and.......6 Rings & 6 NBA Finals MVPs....
MJ isn't only the leading scorer in the history of the game, not total points just his per game average, he is also one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Nice try though.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 but jordan won his titles in a talent deficient league. bird,magic,dr.j, kareem and moses malone all retired by 92. by 91 POOF jordan starts winning? he beat barkley? malone? 0 rings there, an old lakers team way past thier prime? here is a history lesson. he never beat bird in the playoffs,it took him 4 tries to beat the pistons who were the second best team in the east . the sixers,pistons, celtics, lakers,and rockets were powerhouses. jordan didnt beat any of em till 91. FACT
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead Thanks for the history lesson. You're right he never beat Bird in the playoffs. He beat Magic and if by old you mean Magic averaging a double double and James Worthy getting better than 21 a game than yeah... they were old. Vlade was young and he was pretty good. Magic was still Magic - old or not he put up a double double 19&12 - Jordan got the Pistons but in 91 they weren't old they were the back to back champs, Barkley, Stockton and Malone are in the HOF. They didn't win cuz of MJ.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 the pistons werent aging? bill laimbeer , vinnie johnson and isiah thomas were together since 1982. in 91 they were in thier mid 30s, 34- 36 to be exact. the only guys 30 & under was dumars and rodman. detriot beat the bulls 3 yrs in a row 88,89 and 90. you dont mention that. and you compare vlade to kareem? the showtime lakers also had byron scott. a c green was a bench guy,thats how deep the showtime lakers were. showtime would have swept the bulls just like boston did. admit it.
jhhead 1 year ago
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@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
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@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 the bulls played a few of the top teams in the playoffs from 85 to 91. in 85 they lost to the bucks then they lost to the celtics twice ( swept twice ) then pistons 3 yrs in a row. ok ill even give you the argument that mj didnt have pippen and grant in 85 86. but he had them in all of those losses to the pistons. by 91 jordan was a big fish in a very small fish bowl. and hof's you mentioned werent the type of players to carry a team to a ring like magic,russell,bird or a jordan.
jhhead 1 year ago
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moose423 1 year ago
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@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
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@jhhead @jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
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jhhead 1 year ago
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jhhead 1 year ago
@moose423 oh and you are welcome for the history lesson. your homework for next class is to write me a turn paper on the career/playoff success of m.j before the yr 1991. im not sure if you are aware of this or not but,,,he acually played in the nba and and his teams were quite unsuccessfull before the yr mentoned above. that is all for today,,, class dismissed
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead Here's a history lesson for u bud. Jordan didn't have Pippen in Grant until 1987 - how right you are - but Pippen wasn't Pippen until Jordan kicked his ass in practice every day and made him a better player. I'm not talking about the Pippen who sat out cuz of headaches I'm talking about the Pippen who played thru the pain of slipped discs in his back. And yeah - Lambeer, Thomas and Vinnie Johnson were 34-36. Jordan won three straight titles from 96-98... he was 35 in 1998.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 magic in 79-80 played center in game 7 of the finals. kareem was hurt. his numbers? 42-15-7. playing CENTER. AS A ROOKIE. m.j never came close to what bird and magic did to make thier TEAMS better from day 1 in the nba. the proof is in the numbers as i have shown you. and yes jordan won when he was 35. again who was left in the league to beat them? no one. legends make thier teams better not thier stats or egos at a hof speech. wow this is like pistol whipping a blind kid. lol
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead Yeah that is my defense. Did Pippen average 7.9 points a game when he was winning championships? Let me tear u up a lil bud. My argument isn't that Jordan is a cut above Bird and Magic. They owned the 80's - u want a medal for realizing that? My argument is the fact that u said the 90's was talent deficient. Yeah all the names I mentioned were drafted in the 80's but they played in the 90's. Did Stockton&Malone get to the finals in the 80's? Did Ewing and Barkley get there in the 80's?
moose423 1 year ago
@jhhead You can try and argue with me all day. I'm not even sure what your argument is... what is your argument? That Michael Jordan isn't really that good? You're either a fool or a Knicks fan if u think that.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 there are so many things that make up a full player. jordan was a point scorer from day 1. a unmatched machine. he was a good defender but not the best. he didnt learn how to lead a team until 6-7 yrs later. m.j teammates even said that it took him yrs to realize that he needed to trust and guide his team. and by the time he learned he had easier competition than he did his earlier in his career. thats all im saying.
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead He had easier competition? The Knicks played the Bulls just like Detroit did. They tried to beat the Bulls up. Ewing's Knicks were pretty damn good in the 90s. never won tho cuz of MJ. In 92 the Blazers were another team that was really good. They had made it to the finals a few times in the 80s. Orlando was good in 96 and the Jazz were a very good team. If the talent did drop it didn't drop by much. And certainly not enough to make Jordan's legacy less than what it is.
moose423 1 year ago
@jhhead Not to mention the fact that Pippen was 33 and I think Rodman was 36 when they won in 98. The back to back champs were too old in 91? Yeah... they were getting old but Jordan put them out of their misery and pulled the plug on them. Take Jordan out and maybe the pistons three peat in 91. As for the NBA being talentless in the 90's let me run these names by you. Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Kemp, Payton, Mourning, Johnson, Shaq, Penny, Hakeem, Drexler, David Robinson... talentless?
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 thats your defense? pippen wasnt pippen yet? lol. let me tear you up again. did you realize that almost every player you named were drafted and played in the 80's besides shaq, penny ( who isnt hof material anyway ) ? stockton-84,malone-85,barkley-84,drexler-83,hakeem-85,robinson-89,kemp-89. you have proven my point again that the talent pool and existing talent in the nba was much better in the 80s.
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead Let me give you another history lesson.
Jordan: 6 rings & beat Magic in the Finals... and that Lakers team wasn't as old as Jordan's Bulls team in 1998
Magic: 5 rings&lost to Jordan in 1991 cuz he lost Kareem as a teammate
Bird: 3 Rings&good for him he beat Jordan&Orlando Woolridge
Are Magic and Bird better cuz they played in the 80s? ... that's your opinion. The 80s were great but don't tell me the 90s was a talent deficient era in the NBA. You're just a Jordan hater if u say that.
moose423 1 year ago
@jhhead or r u just bias cuz u grew up watching the game in the 80's? You brought up some good points. He did win once Bird, Magic and Isiah faded the same way Shaq, Kobe and Duncan started winning once the Bulls were dismantled in the 90s.
moose423 1 year ago
@moose423 and your point about the the talent around mj bird and magic? in birds rookie season, the team finnished 61-24 AND went to the ecf. the previous season the celts finnished 29-53. 32 more wins. up to that point it was the greatest single season turnaround in nba history. and guess what? no mchale,no parrish and no d.j. same roster as the previous season. quite a feat for a rookie right? then in his 2nd season celts win it all. so there goes your point of larry had talent around him.
jhhead 1 year ago
@jhhead Since you seem like a huge basketball fan you know the answer. They all got to the finals in the 90's. So don't sit there and tell me that the NBA was talent deficient in the 90's. Also there's no way Bird's team when 61-24 in his rookie season cuz they have never played 85 games in the regular season. If you think my argument is "Michael Jordan Is God" you're wrong. Forget Bird and Magic for a second. How about Wilt, Kareem, Jerry West, Baylor... the NBA has NEVER been talent deficient.
moose423 1 year ago
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@jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago
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@jhhead @jhhead One last thing. Jordan had no talent on his team in the 80's. Put Bird with Orlando Woolridge and Steve Colter. Does Bird win championships? Put Jordan with Mc Hale, Parish and DJ... than Jordan wins in the 80's. Put Magic with Charles Oakley and Jon Corzine... does Magic win championships? Ok now put Jodran with Worhty, Kareem, Scott and AC Green... yeah how about that?
moose423 1 year ago