Europeans at this time were not so backwards as one might think. Unfortunately today it seems that we either have one side of the argument that wants to chastise western Europe or on the other side which wants to create some fictional grand society. Neither one of these is accurate.
That part about Salerno is inaccurate. While Muslims were invited to teach in Salerno, they were not the only teachers there, and the REAL first medical school was in Tuscany, while Salerno is in Campania.
Interdiction to icons was in Old Testament for Old Law. In New testament is a NEW LAW that allow icons. Through baptism men become Children of God more above Men of God and allowed to have icons of God. As children of God we can call God as Father. Our Father is the prayer given as example to usYou can not apply Noahide Lawsto old Law or Old Law to New Law
Islam, a Old Law religion without Eucharist for eternal life and baptism, tried to apply old law to Chsitianity and this is wrong and false.
In the time of adam and Eve, before eating the fruit, there was no religion. After eating the fruit the death and expulsion from heaven came and thus religion appeared to bring back eternal life and entrance to heaven.
First book of Adam and Eve , Chapter III explains that Word of God will come in year 5500 to bring back eternal life and entrance to heaven. The only religious leader appearing in year 5500 from creation was Jesus. The only religious leader claiming to be the Word of God was Jesus
He brought to humanity baptism from entarnce to Heaven and Eucharist for immortality, John 6:54. John 6:54 deems islam false showing they don't listen to jesus even as prophet. Protestant West renounced to Eucharist for eternal life and replaced it with nothing, meal, symbols and Catholic West changed the process of obtaining it. In Holy water the change makes water corrupted and this is why we have orthodox Church in a romanian city and not a catholic onesince Catholic Holy water become corrupt
Orthodox keep both Eucharist for eternal life and Baptism the way of Early Church for entrance to heaven. Eternal life is important and this is why the strife to keep them and to not move to Protestantism, that have lost it or to islam, hinduism that never had it is important.
Professor does not understand what worship means. To worship= to consider somebody as God. To kneel in front of a girl or icon is not considered worship because girl or icon is not like God.
Orthodox Christians (Greek and all others) DO NOT WORSHIP ICONS!!! Icons are not worshiped, only God is worshiped. Icons are used for visual aid. Since we cannot see Christ and the saints with our eyes, icons are a visual reminder. They are VENERATED, and every Orthodox Christian who venerates an icon knows that their veneration passes from the icon to the saint, Christ, etc.
This is a video about history, it really did happen and was called 'The Iconoclastic Period' (711-843). The influence of Islam probably helped to spur the controversy, as they strongly condemn any depictions of religious figures.
Sadly the professor speaks, from 3.00 till 4.20, about worship of icons... This is of course not true!!! Orthodox christians do not worship icons, but venerate the saint who is depicted.
Supported by Iconoclastic clergymen the Emperor Leo III made public in 726 his opposition to the veneration of icons. Initially, in a series of speeches he attempted to convince his subjects that the custom was wrong. His speeches were soon followed by actions when a particularly important icon depicting Christ, was brought down by the troops in the neighbourhood of Chalcoprateia, which was situated in the commercial district of the capital.
@HellenicLegend7 An icon or fetish is always a symbol, a representation of something else, be it a deity or some other supernatural entity, a historical figure or even an idea. For that matter then nobody worships icons but what they represent, thus making the whole distinction fuzzy and a little bit pointless imho.
@Wafflepudding See above the answer of ignati123. I 'm glad that you understand (unlike many protestants) that Orthodox Christians are honouring the person which the icon depicts and not the icon itself. I would like to add that my objection was about the word 'worship'. Orthodox Christians make a very clear distinction between 'worship' and 'veneration'! We worship only God, we venerate the saints. That was, and is, the stance of the iconophili. The professor speaks only of worship.
@HellenicLegend7 I suppose you could say it wasn't an accurate representation but I do think if some meaning was muddled it was in the transition between history and theology. The Professor is speaking in a historical context from an academic perspective, personally I don't think that has implications over the rights or wrongs of religious doctrine and I'm not so opinionated as to presume to tell orthodox christians that they're practicing "idolatry".
Organized religion is fucked up
redxar66 1 month ago
Proud to be Arab :-)
justinelhillow 6 months ago
Europeans at this time were not so backwards as one might think. Unfortunately today it seems that we either have one side of the argument that wants to chastise western Europe or on the other side which wants to create some fictional grand society. Neither one of these is accurate.
Sibbot 7 months ago
That part about Salerno is inaccurate. While Muslims were invited to teach in Salerno, they were not the only teachers there, and the REAL first medical school was in Tuscany, while Salerno is in Campania.
Nonamearisto 9 months ago
Exactly, changing the Eucharist for Eternal Life thorugh changing bread by Catholics is an important issue since is about ETERNAL LIFE.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
Interdiction to icons was in Old Testament for Old Law. In New testament is a NEW LAW that allow icons. Through baptism men become Children of God more above Men of God and allowed to have icons of God. As children of God we can call God as Father. Our Father is the prayer given as example to usYou can not apply Noahide Lawsto old Law or Old Law to New Law
Islam, a Old Law religion without Eucharist for eternal life and baptism, tried to apply old law to Chsitianity and this is wrong and false.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
In the time of adam and Eve, before eating the fruit, there was no religion. After eating the fruit the death and expulsion from heaven came and thus religion appeared to bring back eternal life and entrance to heaven.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
First book of Adam and Eve , Chapter III explains that Word of God will come in year 5500 to bring back eternal life and entrance to heaven. The only religious leader appearing in year 5500 from creation was Jesus. The only religious leader claiming to be the Word of God was Jesus
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
He brought to humanity baptism from entarnce to Heaven and Eucharist for immortality, John 6:54. John 6:54 deems islam false showing they don't listen to jesus even as prophet. Protestant West renounced to Eucharist for eternal life and replaced it with nothing, meal, symbols and Catholic West changed the process of obtaining it. In Holy water the change makes water corrupted and this is why we have orthodox Church in a romanian city and not a catholic onesince Catholic Holy water become corrupt
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
Orthodox keep both Eucharist for eternal life and Baptism the way of Early Church for entrance to heaven. Eternal life is important and this is why the strife to keep them and to not move to Protestantism, that have lost it or to islam, hinduism that never had it is important.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
Professor does not understand what worship means. To worship= to consider somebody as God. To kneel in front of a girl or icon is not considered worship because girl or icon is not like God.
IoanIlieMinaGheorghe 1 year ago
4:24 . i think ive seen that in real life
sshenanigans95 1 year ago
Comment removed
Lotusflowerism 1 year ago
Orthodox Christians (Greek and all others) DO NOT WORSHIP ICONS!!! Icons are not worshiped, only God is worshiped. Icons are used for visual aid. Since we cannot see Christ and the saints with our eyes, icons are a visual reminder. They are VENERATED, and every Orthodox Christian who venerates an icon knows that their veneration passes from the icon to the saint, Christ, etc.
ignati123 2 years ago
@ignati123
This is a video about history, it really did happen and was called 'The Iconoclastic Period' (711-843). The influence of Islam probably helped to spur the controversy, as they strongly condemn any depictions of religious figures.
Lotusflowerism 1 year ago
o it pains me to see the arabs in spain...
mongoose100989 2 years ago
ditto that.
doctorsartorius 2 years ago
Sadly the professor speaks, from 3.00 till 4.20, about worship of icons... This is of course not true!!! Orthodox christians do not worship icons, but venerate the saint who is depicted.
HellenicLegend7 2 years ago 2
wat.
mongoose100989 2 years ago
@HellenicLegend7
Supported by Iconoclastic clergymen the Emperor Leo III made public in 726 his opposition to the veneration of icons. Initially, in a series of speeches he attempted to convince his subjects that the custom was wrong. His speeches were soon followed by actions when a particularly important icon depicting Christ, was brought down by the troops in the neighbourhood of Chalcoprateia, which was situated in the commercial district of the capital.
Lotusflowerism 1 year ago
@HellenicLegend7 An icon or fetish is always a symbol, a representation of something else, be it a deity or some other supernatural entity, a historical figure or even an idea. For that matter then nobody worships icons but what they represent, thus making the whole distinction fuzzy and a little bit pointless imho.
Wafflepudding 1 year ago
@Wafflepudding See above the answer of ignati123. I 'm glad that you understand (unlike many protestants) that Orthodox Christians are honouring the person which the icon depicts and not the icon itself. I would like to add that my objection was about the word 'worship'. Orthodox Christians make a very clear distinction between 'worship' and 'veneration'! We worship only God, we venerate the saints. That was, and is, the stance of the iconophili. The professor speaks only of worship.
HellenicLegend7 1 year ago
@HellenicLegend7 I suppose you could say it wasn't an accurate representation but I do think if some meaning was muddled it was in the transition between history and theology. The Professor is speaking in a historical context from an academic perspective, personally I don't think that has implications over the rights or wrongs of religious doctrine and I'm not so opinionated as to presume to tell orthodox christians that they're practicing "idolatry".
Wafflepudding 1 year ago
@HellenicLegend7 ur hella cool broshki
thebuttcheek 1 year ago
@Wafflepudding (continues...) So he doesn 't make a good representation of both parties.
HellenicLegend7 1 year ago
Comment removed
Wafflepudding 1 year ago
@HellenicLegend7 worship, venerate, it's all the same religious silliness.
saburoemon 1 year ago
@HellenicLegend7 worship, venerate, potato, potah-to
saburoemon 1 year ago
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The Byzantines were NOT Greeks
RozSatyros 2 years ago