Jacque Fresco - Introduction to Sociocyberneering - Larry King Show (1974)

[windposter]

gotta love king's clapping at  38 min ^^

[Awsom38]

At least some sanity in this insane world...

I just hope we see your dream come true in time old man

[Intelrev]

Jacque is a legend and will be a featured intellectual on our website IntellectualRevolution.tv - coming early March 2012. Together We Can Change The World.

[MrBonesoe]

@MsBeisser Can you point to a case where someone has asked a practical question of The Venus Project and been ousted? (Other than Peter Joseph who merely disagrees with the idea of a major motion picture)

[TheCartographer89]

You are a prophet among men sir, I wish you the best.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeisser It happens.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser ...It is as unlikely as people's opiinions. It is as unlikely as people believe it to be. But it's even more unlikely if an organization known as the Venus Project does not try to bring it to fruition. If it is unlikely, then I guess I'm wasting my life. But if it's so unlikely, why are you wasting yours debating me about it?

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Perhaps, however I am not as blunt with my certainty. You may be unaware that you have given your statements as an ideology. Disagreement is fine in safe areas. However much of today's disagreements are in dangerous areas. Furthermore, disagreements should vary to the extent that scientific data varies. However, science is not oriented to supply data for all issues, although it could be. By the way, we agree with you. Consensus is probably unlikely...

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser They are hypothetical because they are what we can build now with today's technology. But the reality may be that the designs turn out differently by the time they are implemented, as variations. It depends upon what designs are most appropriate to the various conditions of the world's environments. To determine appropriateness requires surveys and studies. Fresco's models are precisely models - general conceptual possibilities. The actual goal is the operating principles.

[IAM18YEARSOLDANDOVER]

@MsBeisser I just have to call you out mate. Your capitalist beliefs no longer can stand on its own feet. Don't lie to get around this, I know you've got a blog where you praise Von Mises.

[QuantumCraziness]

i say lets do it. this life is boring and restricts us all from doing things we really want to do, I totally agree with the repetitious and dirty jobs being replaced my machine work, this is terminator we aren't going to go at war with any machines and who wants to be a janitor? That is a perfect example of a job that a robot should be doing. Its time for change and i want to be part of it.

[IAM18YEARSOLDANDOVER]

@MsBeiser Go away troll!

[IAM18YEARSOLDANDOVER]

@MsBeiser Capitalism isn't very scientific lmao.

[spreadawarenessRBE]

Excellent interview. People have to seek this information to evolve and make this world a better place

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Not so simple.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Of course it fits. What was this project for? To develop weapons.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser A politician has no understanding of the potential of technology to provide for human needs. Instead of spending billions on military and police, which is the primitive old world barbaric method, you spend the money on technological infrastructures that better society - not just our society, but all societies - because it is cheaper than war. Technicians and scientists, due to their technical orientation, are more inclined to recognize this.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser It's due to being convinced more than ego.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Jeez, you're so sure.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser His model cities are not what the future will be. It is merely a representation of what it can be with current technology. Here is where confusion begins and it is caused by Fresco's rhetoric and methods. The models are not a goal to work toward. Really, they are merely to give people a picture of what we can have, so that they don't envision whatever their preposterous imagination conjures up.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser That's what we're going to get and what Fresco is trying to avoid.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Technological innovation doesn't create inhuman values. Power relations and scarcity does.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser I've never heard of a scientist or technician working on freedom of speech or democracy.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser People don't decide their own future anyway. It is determined by corporations in private enterprise (a collection of fascistic proto-states). So what's the difference? Once it is official doctrine that decisions are to be assigned to the scientific method, how wide can the range of debate possibly be? Certainly as wide as the resulting data, which is narrow. And who is to blame for the decision derived from the data? Reality?

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser This is true. However, their background and methods predisposes them toward more objective decisions.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Do we want an open system? or 1984? If we want it to be an open system, we better start thinking about it now & have it be a collective effort if we want freedom.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Again, Fresco maintains that sociocyberneering will develop as a management system whether we want it or not. This is the next step in social evolution. Fresco is not interested in "DIRECTING" our social evolution because he believes the course towards sociocyberneering is unalterable. Its arrival is a product of evolutionary forces and its arrival is OUTSIDE OF OUR CONTROL. So, seeing this, his interest is in who will have power in the system. The people? or elites?

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser I accuse you of excessive postmodern pessimism, precisely the kind Habermas argues against.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser A mild example: bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-157204­­38

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Regardless of ideology and worthless opinions, when conditions reach a level of desperation, as a last resort, they call upon technocrats to keep the system running, because scientists and technicians concern themselves with factors of the physical world, not human constructions about society. In fact this is a pattern that is already evident in Greece, Italy, Czech Rep., and Hungary in the past. It is because, scientific rationality manages the problems without opinion.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Again we agree. But that should be stated tentatively. And you should check whether such pessimism is warranted and limited to an understanding bound by conditions of our time. To the degree cybernetics is introduced, we gain new controls. However, Fresco is not interested in directing our social evolution. He is interested in in preventing certain power relations as the evolution unfolds. By the way, whether humans are directing their evolution is still a subject of debate.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser The further the phase, the further from current values.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser I don't understand why you jump to the conclusion that environmental damage and social upheaval/chaos will be the only results, without even surveying the methods and techniques of construction.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Indeed it is ambitious. It can be done when the world powers recognize that the current economy will drive humanity into ruin. Biosocial pressures may force the change as a necessary measure. Like I've said, either it will come about as a private fascism, or it can be an open system if scientists recognize what needs to be done. Indeed the former is more likely. But Fresco still tries for the latter.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser We don't disagree here. But we have seen values lost throughout history and most severely over the past few centuries. To generate and eliminate values is where behavioral science steps in. A technology of behavior.

[benjaamin8]

I like this interviewer, and the part when he listed all of Jacque's credentials. :)

[benjaamin8]

@MsBeiser This man knew Albert Einstein, I think he is a bit more informed than yourself.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser It's not about "teaching" ourselves. It's about recognizing how we need to be, then designing an environment that can generate and reinforce healthy behavior. This requires a tabula rasa to work best, and must transpire incrementally in phases. Test after test after test.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Your hasty generalization impairs your point. You have assumed that every person has the same value system and that Fresco wants to eliminate all current values. Fresco seeks to eliminate certain values, and these values happen to be dominant.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Again you are mistaking one aspect as the entirety. Education is not the sole generator of values. Every environment generates values. That is, the conditions to which people are subjected determines their values. This is why Fresco proposes redesigning an environment - to generate new values. This is engineering of the "soul," in classical terms. That is why a test city must be built to test Fresco's hypotheses. This is simply the next step in science.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser It is becoming more and more evident that your are making assumptions about Fresco's position, nearing straw man. These assumptions also lead you to lump Fresco into preexisting categories. In fact, Fresco has no faith in reason at all. In fact, he maintains that humans cannot think or reason at all. By the way, your claims regarding the consequences of building new cities is guilty of False Dilemma.

[MiaCries]

@MsBeiser What do you mean by this?

[MiaCries]

@MsBeiser You mean replace our current value system with another? Is it even necessary to have a value system at all?... Sad how he removed your comments so quickly.

[jacquefresco]

@MiaCries For the record, no comment was removed.

[MiaCries]

@MsBeiser Which 'out of date arguments' are you referring to? Let's hear you 'destroy' them.

[jacquefresco]

@MsBeiser Can you be specific about which arguments?

[Corvandus]

Once we get our shit together and move forward on this, Dr. Fresco will be remembered as our generations Da Vinci.

Dr. Fresco, how are you with drawings? Sign a few and vacuum seal them, they'd be great in a gallery in Beijing in fifteen years, I could ritualistically go to see them before lunch.

[waterspindle]

I have seen this, but it never gets old. I really cannot imagine humanity continuing the way that it does now, and many of the solutions are miles (decades) ahead of what is "consumed" by people today.

We do have systemic problems, architecturally flawed systems that control production and other means of trade.

The tunnel-vision/myopic society ... It's just hard to watch... And better ways to live just sit.... bums me out... I hope people can learn to see new ways one day..

[papadioup8]

My word! I agree with most of what Fresco dictates and I met him last year. I had spent many months seeking worthwhile critical questions enhancing his positions. I came up with nothing. After this introduction one question is clear. Why cyclical cities when the hexagonal honeycomb is optimal?

[mrmatters8448]

But Mr. Fresco, quantum mechanics is full of examples where things cannot be tested empirically, but they are still held in high regard. What about the double slit theory? Sub-atomic particles?

[jacquefresco]

@mrmatters8448 Right now much of that is nothing more than high flying mathematics. However, someday maybe we will be able to test in empirically.

[Corvandus]

@jacquefresco Certainly, if we had the quantity and diversity of minds free to explore physics. Mortgage and student fees makes them a biochemical engineer instead to find some ridiculous new plastic we can replace credit card materials with, made from 98% of the crude oil we use. That's still kind of exciting, and they have chips in them now.

[DoS37]

"But there always gonna be a large group of people that have trouble handling it" - Larry

"Yes, we agree" - Jacque

"Look at the changes someone 60 years old, has seen unbelivable change..." - Larry

Jacque were 58 at this point. :D

[RLAFTW]

Jacque, I want to meet you. Is this possible? I'm a 20 year old dreamer please contact me.

[jacquefresco]

@RLAFTW If you visit the Venus Project website you can find information about tours. They occur nearly every Saturday.

[RLAFTW]

@jacquefresco Thank you very much. Right now I'm caught in the middle of my studies, but I will visit (and hopefully meet you) as soon as possible!

[mrmatters8448]

Jacque, what is your opinion on the psuedoscientific belief that life and reality as we know it, is in actuality, a type of simulation? (Serious question btw)

[jacquefresco]

@mrmatters8448 Fresco doesn't deal with those kinds of claim, because there in no way to test it empirically.

[kossossk]

I really wish i had the opinion of the 1974's person that watched this live . I would love to compare from then and now .wow this is blowing my mind .. I just really get it . I have so many references to what hes saying its reall giving me identity ..

[jacquefresco]

@kossossk People back then thought he was nuts.

[liquidrum7]

I can't believe he said this in 1974! He is talking about Internet, flat screen TV, streaming, TV on demand and environmental/economic issues that we are experiencing today! Epic

[FarahWonderland7]

Jacque is a modern-day prophet.

[questionsleadtotruth]

This was in 1974. :( What has changed since then?

[questionsleadtotruth]

Thank you. :)

[helpvidz]

Truly a brilliant man.

[Jerbell247]

hi Jauque, have you heard of earthships?

[horn1955]

This man is visionary and creative. Your ideas to create a society based at sustainability and a new economy "free" of monetary system of today are the way of revolution in conscience around world.

[selvmordspilot]

I love this interview. I'm so happy Jacque were caught on camera during the peak of his understanding. He is truly on fire for the duration of this interview. Very articulate and sharp

[JadeCat74]

The man is speaking of flat screens and streemed media when I was not even born! What a visionary! I hope he lives long egnouth to see the first circular city come through!

[ghj234]

Jacque is one of the smartest people to ever live.

[CylenthVision]

I love the way Jacque thinks, he speaks of the same subjects that I've been speaking to some people - though mostly keeping those thoughts inside my head. But I feel like I need to do more, something real, something big that will remain for several years to come. I feel like the people around me are afraid of these new ideas and big changes and thus they're not willing to learn more about this subject. I've been ready for these changes for years and am willing to do anything to make a difference

[DoS37]

Finally the whole interview on youtube, thank you so very much! I like this video because you can clearly see how jacque and TVP has changed in the advent of new technology.

[J95X3RNVY]

Is there going to be any new interviews with Jacque or lectures soon?

[jacquefresco]

@J95X3RNVY There are certainly more, however I cannot guarantee they will be put out.