Its really sad, whenever the North Hollywood Shootout anniversery comes around, theres usually something on TV about it, but this shoouto I have never heard anything about it tv or the news nothing very tragic event and seems to have been almost forgotten. Very sad
such an inaccuracy. first of all the m16 doesent fire fully auto. second he dident tape 2 magazines together. 3rd the backup fbi were double teaming some waitress in a restraunt and they left there fully auto machine guns in the van unlocked.
Michael Platt used a Ruger Mini-14, not an AR 15 which is the civilian semiauto version of the military's full auto M16, to shoot the FBI agents up. This video also shows him using a Mini 14. I don't know if he taped his magazines together or not, but he used what he had to good effect. He was the creme de la creme of scumbags. He was a murdering lowlife, but he was a badass for sure.
This is why the 10mm and 40 S&W calibers were created as the description states. In addition, most FBI agency's now require their agents to carry, and get proficient with their main gun as well as a back up firearm. (In case it malfunctions, or gets shot). Furthermore, FBI, and Police carry either shotguns, or ar-15's in their vehicles. I'm curious as to whether they were using fmj rounds or hollow points. Another requirement of a lot of agency's is to use the same caliber so they can share ammo
@turayde Actually the 10mm was developed in the late 70's from a shortened .30 cal rifle case. Norma ammo later made much of the test ammo.I think the 10mm was commercially available around 1983/1984. After Miami the FBI toyed with the 10mm & had the "10mm lite" 125gr load created.I've heard that S&W came up with the .40 Super for the FBI? supposedly originated from a cut down 10mm case.S&W mass produced the .40 S&W using small primer brass Fed Premium 10mm HS 180gr JHP has great stopping power.
@70scarrestoguy your probably accurate, I'm not sure where the origins of the 10mm and 40 S&W came from however I know that the FBI predominately use these calibers due to this shootout.
@word688 Believe it or not, neither Matix nor Platt was found to have been running on anything besides natural adrenaline. They were completely clean.
@CthuluDownUnder they may have modified it to shoot on full auto. the guys in the orth hollywood shootout in 1997 made all their bullets hollwpoints by doctoring around with them. also back in the 1970s the IRA recieved about 1000 m16s that were semi auto yet they managed to make them all full auto and used them to great effect against the british army in northern ireland.
@1860george That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I am an expert on the North hollywood shooout. They didn't modify SHIT. It was chinese steel core ammunition. Which means it's armor piercing. They converted the AK's to full auto yes. But Platt did NOT convert his mini to full auto. Hollow points.. lololololo.
if the above scene is true when he shot those two blokes in the car they were not presenting a threat and not holding a gun.....is that called murder or is self defence laws different in the states?
@hardman476 Not presenting a threat? Seriously? Two agents were already dead, five others wounded including Edmundo himself, was he supposed to run over and determine how functional these two killers still were before deciding whether to continue using deadly force?
@10splitter going by the film which i doubt it relistic..........at the end the peice of shit stops shooting and sits down in front seat! he is not pointing the gun at anyone thus not presenting a threat AT THAT MOMENT.....so if the copper shoots him in that moment when the scum ball is not pointing a gun at the said coppper; that would be classed as unlawfull ! thats what i meant and thats whats it looks like in the film! as i said maby us law is different
@hardman476 Legally, if you ever present a deadly threat to a Federal Agent (even so much as pointing a firearm at them), any Federal agent is allowed by law to shoot and kill you.
For a reference to a situation that establishes this right, search in Google: "Cleveland heights: off duty fbi agent shoots teen robber"
First article, should be by WKYC, last two paragraphs tell you what you need to know.
@Bizmark87 i understand that; but what say if the scum ball fires at the federal agent (exchange of gunfire) afterwards the scum ball drops the gun, but is still in the car......he is no posing a threat any more..but i pose if the police cant see the scum ball hands they would still shoot......?? in take they shoot to stop?
over here the police are required if they are forced to fire; they must re asses the situration before firing another shot ie. no double taps !
@gaminghero47 If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Showing mercy is to ask for mercy in return, who knows you just may need it. It's a concept called honor and some people have been known to take pride in it.
@TheOdelayhomes69 There's no honor in a situation like this, you are going in knowing your not gonna give mercy and you wont expect none in return. you are acting like they are the north going up against the south over land rights. These people are just a bunch of thugs that don't care who they hurt.
@gaminghero47 now when you say "these people" I certainly hope you dont mean the agents who gave their life to ensure the fact that more innocent werent hurt by those 2 monsters. You cant be gthat ignorant say they were a "bunch of thugs". please tell me your smarter then that.
@10splitter I know right? I mean I'm a "liberal" who often complains about police causing unnecessary deaths but I don't see anything wrong with what the FBI agent did here.
@hardman476 What sort of a moron are you? These two guys were wanted in connection with a half-dozen different armored car/bank robberies, several murders, and the one (Platt) killed two FBI agents and wounded five more during this firefight. Using lethal force to prevent them from fleeing the scene was not only necessary, it was the only way to stop them.
@hardman476 Not to mention, Platt sustained a non-survivable wound early in the fight, the wound that severed the right brachial and collapsed the right lung. He continued fighting until he sustained a hit to the USC by Edmundo. It was the upper spinal hit that finally caused him to go limp, at which he time he simply finished bleeding to death. However, letting them leave that scene and possibly kill citizens/police was NOT an option.
it was a lot of things...non standard guns between the agents, some not having their guns holstered, so they went flying during the car crash, some lost their eye glasses in the crash, not enough ammo or spare magazines, etc.
Movie isn't accurate. There was no fully-automatic weapons used. The perps used a shotgun, 357mag and mini-14 (223cal) semi-automatic. Of the eight FBI agents involved two were killed and five were seriously wounded. Both perps were killed-- one with six shots and the other with 12. This shoot out resulted in the FBI adopting the 40cal semi-automatice pistol.
@Richi007ish Well they adopted the 10mm, which then resulted them adopting the .40s&w. The FBI found agents had trouble with the 10mm recoil. So Smith and Wesson made the .40cal. Similar ballistics, less felt recoil.
also why is it that the 9mm is sorta not respecful caliber but i think it is a great caliber because it will harm the enemy but not enough to kill the target unless you hit the target in the right spot and the goverment or whoever made the 40 smith and wesson or even suggested it is a douche
@slickmicky54 You've been playing way too many video games. Shots to the head don't necessarily mean instant kills. There was a man who was shot in the head three times at point blank range who survived. I would like to see how you would have done in this shootout. These men were very brave. Have some respect for them.
@thedmundfitz i have a lot of respect for those men.I dont have a lot of respect for the people in charge who send in those men poorly armed and without PROPER back up. I do not play video games as you do,to know what is on them! The british police would not have played about, they would not have allowed them selves to get in that situation. but thats british police not american.
@slickmicky54 The British police? They don't even carry handguns! Look who's talking about not being properly armed! And the backup did eventually come, they can only get there so quickly. I would say they were pretty well armed (they all had larger caliber handguns and one of them had a shotgun), but it could have been better for such dangerous suspects. Then again, they may not have known that the criminals had an assault rifle. It's a misinformed generalization that you made.
I love how the F.B.I. made a new cartridge ".40 s&w" because the 9mm is "underpowered" yet the 9mm is the fatal round that killed platt...it's not the fact that the f.b.i. used 6 shooters like they are in a cowboy western against someone with a mini-14 with two mags taped together...and could not shot for shit.....just blame it on the cartridge......they should of all had full auto mp-5s or ar-15 shortys
At least two agents involved brought 12 gauge shotguns, but only one was used because the other agent left his in the back seat where he couldn't safely reach it. One agent didn't have a weapon at all because he lost his in the vehicle collision and didn't think to bring a back up, two agents had MP5's, and four others had more shotguns and some M16's, but they weren't involved in the firefight because they didn't arrive in time. Only two agents decided to wear body armor.
This really isn't a issue of the FBI being underarmed that additional finances can solve. All that really happened here is that the agents involved were probably just not expecting to run into these guys within the first fifteen minutes on their first day of the stakeout. They simply did not adequately prepare themselves. Which is why six stakeout agents didn't even make it to the firefight and why only two were wearing their body armor.
The caliber they were using did not have enough stopping power (at least that's what an FBI investigation concluded). Seems obvious, since it took multiple hits to take them down. Had they all been using .357 mags from the beginning, the fight would have ended much sooner.
Probably pointless now because I believe most agencies carry an AR or mini 14 in the cruiser now, but I wonder why they don't start carrying slugs for the shotguns? There is a risk of over penetration, but if there is a safe shot they are a one shot stop and extremely accurate. An ounce or more of lead going 1200 fps. Ouch.
Are civilians allowed to help out in a situation like this? Where there is little backup for the officers? I don't know if I'd be brave enough, but I'd like the option.
@uchio First off:How would you know the good guys from the bad guys? Excluding combat veterans, I don't think very many civilians could function effectively under that type of fire.Even experienced hunters claim adrenaline rush gives them the shakes, imagine if the deer were shooting back.A civilian who would volunteer to be thrust into that situation probably has unrealistic expectations or thinks them self invincible.An untrained citizen shooting at criminals from behind my position? No thanks
Of course, the shootout happened at 12201 SW 82 Ave in Pinecrest, FL, which was a house, not an apartment building...and across the street is a commercial building. Today, a plaque and memorial stands to mark the site, and 82 Ave has been named in the Agents' honor. The agent's glasses were thrown off in the collision of the two cars, one other agent had a shotgun but couldn't get to it.
@haghaghaghaag Luck yes definitely. Among with some other factors. Like the fact that the suspects were probably more interested in getting away than killing everyone. Or the fact that AK-47s on full auto are not very accurate. And of course, the LAPD SWAT for killing them before they could cause more harm.
If you read the full report(and watch the interviews of the surviving agents) on the incident, it's far more terrifying that what comes across in this flick. SAs were horribly outgunned, trying to stop a moving, motivated assailant, through barriers w/ .38 & 9mm 115gr HPs... Slingshot marbles at a pissed off grizzly. "Stopping power" is a misnomer. The shot that hit Pratt as he 1st crawled out of the car was killing him... slowly. But 1st he killed 2 SAs, and wounded 5 more.
Not the 10mm! It had already been developed by Jeff Cooper. The FBI considered the 10mm after the shooting. But, found it to have to much operational recoil. Thus the scaled down version the 40sw was developed.
I find this pretty similar to what happened to Babyface Nelson (he was crazier than these guys. He'd shoot you just for cutting him off). Except he was using a semi-automatic rifle and was firing it so fast, witnesses thought it was a machine gun. Look up the Battle of Barrington. True stary, too BTW.
get into their car. All of this with a punctured lung, a half paralyzed and copiously bleeding right arm, some minor wounds and firing his carbine from his left shoulder. Talk about stopping power!
This reenactment has some MAJOR innacuracies, most of which have been already pointed out. The most important thing: Platt, despite his deadly lung wound and his malfunctioning right arm wasn't slowed down in any way and certainly didn't stagger like a zombie. He took cover begind cars, used suppressive fire on agents and waited for the right moment to pop out and shot Grogan and Dove. It must've took him less than three seconds to shoot Grogan, Dove and Hanlon and no more than five seconds to
@profsat5 Actually, there were six other agents who didn't catch up with the men involved, and they had shotguns, MP5s and M16s. Had they shown up sooner, the gunfight would've turned in the FBI's favor, and Grogan and Dove may have lived.
@StAraqiel Hell, if these guys had their shotguns in the front seat, or if that guy hadn't dropped his glasses, this gunfight would have been a pretty quick thing.
@VinnyS914 The movie is totally inaccurate in this regard... Two police officers came to the scene...one of them threw himself over Agent McNeill's paralyzed body to protect him.
I remember that movie,true story,if you want to see a great true story see if this is on DVD.The bad guys were ex special forces and they used mini-14s and 357 mags.They were two that the FBI knew was going to be trouble but the FBI turned down special weapons and stayed with there own side arms.
@kumadog286 - he really didn't add another mag or reload. It appeared that he simply turned the original mag up onto it's opposite end and starting shooting again. I didn't know a mag was made that way...
@goofydog2 it was just a simple contraption... it was two magazines taped together, one's mouth stiking out further than the others end, so that he could take one magazine out, and just flip it to reload to the next magazine...hope that made sense...
@kumadog286 - Thanks! I never would have figured that out!!! ...Man, that was one bad guy scratching for a way to survive. That's a scary, scary story. This guy seemed motivated to live so he could shoot anyone who had shot at him. Took a lickin' and kept on tickin'!!!
I will take a clean in and out from a 7.62x51mm then a little 55 grain bastard hitting me at 3100 fps outta a 20 inch barrel only to fragment like a hand grenade 8 inchs in my chest....223 is punny MY ASS!!!!
@usmc2076 "Beloved .223...Probably one of the most devestating rounds out there. Penetrates most armor, cruises through the body like a Mexican Jumping Bean! I would not want to get hit by one!
And the wonder nines were born. R.I.P. F.B.I. IT'S A Shame the agency had to learn the hard way. It was just last year that Arizona and other states L.E. agencies wanted to arm their patrolmen with AR's. Of course the higher ups refused.
I know i am a marine...but theres no way i am going into a combat situation with a 6 shot .38 and no armor.....soft armor and a m-16 with 5 mags minimum!
@weaponseducation Amazing that this infamous FBI fiasco was ended by using the oldest technology in the fight: a Smith & Wesson revolver firing 38 Special +P 158 grain lead hollow-points. The Hi-tech firepower, particularly the "Wonder Nines" were marginal at best.
It's not the gun, but the guy behind the gun that matters!
I imagine that even in this era of "Assault Rifles" one of a SWAT teams worst nightmares would be engaging expert riflemen armed with 30-30 Marlin lever actions!
@coltperc Most of the hits were with the automatic pistols, it seems. The inherent issue with this conflict was completely human. One guy doesn't carry enough spare ammo and has to retreat to reload his magazines. Another lost his glasses and didn't have spares. Many left their body armor and long arms in the back seat of their cars, where it was inaccessible.
@John234pwns The hits with the 9mm Autos failed to stop due to over-expansion and shallow penetration. The ammo was based on the 70's era Justice Dept "Relative Incapacitation Index" that emphasized rapid expansion for maximum temporary cavity effect. That theory was totally discredited by many notorious failures to stop. The 38 lead HP's expanded adequately boring large holes, & the bullet is heavy enough to penetrate deep and smash any bones in its path; ammo works well & is still used!
@coltperc The 9mm 125 grain JHP is still one of the most popular defensive calibers. If I recall correctly, that Marshal guy who did the one-shot stop study also noted it had a very high one shot stop.
Also, shot placement. Those .38s hit while the men were stationary in a car. They were hit in the head and chest. Many of the 9mm hits were not to the cardiovascular triangle.
@John234pwns Modern 9mm 125 gr JHP is MUCH better than the FBI rounds that failed to stop in 1986, and had they been used in 1986 may well have ended the fight very early. That being said, for my personal CCW use I now use 357 Mag revolvers exclusively, due to the extreme versatility. Heavy 357 loads approach 30-30 performance from a Marlin/Rossi 357 lever action rifle for a formidable combo punch. A favorite carry load remains the 38 +P 158 gr lead HP in both 900 fps and 1100+ fps loadings!
@coltperc Yeah, I prefer the .38 Spl over .357 Mag too. Out of a short barrel carry piece, a lot more manageable and shootable - and the hits are what count.
this incident led to the production of the 40. cal ammo of today. now alot of law enforement agencies carry a semi auto pistol with .40 cal ammo. .40 cal has more stopping power then the 9mm, and semi auto pistols can be reloaded alot quicker, and possibly reloaded w/ 1 hand if you know how to. things that may have saved the agents their lives. now many law enforcement agencies are carrying semi auto m4 rifles more, due to the north hollywood shootout.
Not saying it would have changed anything or not but the fbi agents had s/w 19s but only carryed .38+p ammo. What would have made a difference for sure is the m16 that one of the other agents was armed with, sadly he didnt get to the shot out.
I believe 1 of the criminals had been an army airborne ranger or some kind of elite-level combat soldier. This event also brought what some call post mortem mobility into law enforcement tactics e.g. "knockdown power" calibers. The FBI exhaustively studied the efficacy of several caliber handguns; the 10mm was shown to be most effective but its heavy recoil & overpenetration gave rise to the .40. Platt&Mattix suffered unsurvivable wounds in the opening seconds of the gunfight.
@synthpathetic Hard to get perfect headshots when you're trying not to get your own ass blasted by a dude with a much bigger gun from just a few feet away.
Its been an interesting debate,and no doubt you are keen to have the last word,but I rest my case and leave it for others to judge.Let us agree to differ.My final point is that its no good going on about past glories,when the present is looking less attractive for you every news bulletin.Rather than reflecting propaganda,energy should be placed in rectifying the enormous problems your country,and its military,have in the present.This is my challenge to you,and my final word in this matter.
@10APC not much of a debate since you clearly have a limited knowledge of the british military and have failed to come up with examples whereby Britain has failed on such a colossal scale as America has in recent years. A better example of true military courage is to be found in our retaking of the Falkland islands in 1982. Grenanda and Panama are nothng compared to that. After all they were in your own backgarden.
@10APC I'm saddened that you've decided to end my seminar to you on the relative merits of the British and US military. But please do feel free to contact me on this subject again, or indeed any other which you feel you need correcting on.
Its really sad, whenever the North Hollywood Shootout anniversery comes around, theres usually something on TV about it, but this shoouto I have never heard anything about it tv or the news nothing very tragic event and seems to have been almost forgotten. Very sad
DubSouljah1991 4 days ago
Oh my god i hate last stand. Pretty much everyone was using it.
hifatpeople 1 week ago
@hifatpeople now thats fucking funny! :) god damn noobs
MCBobbyE 1 day ago
such an inaccuracy. first of all the m16 doesent fire fully auto. second he dident tape 2 magazines together. 3rd the backup fbi were double teaming some waitress in a restraunt and they left there fully auto machine guns in the van unlocked.
tanker0wns1 1 month ago
@tanker0wns1
Michael Platt used a Ruger Mini-14, not an AR 15 which is the civilian semiauto version of the military's full auto M16, to shoot the FBI agents up. This video also shows him using a Mini 14. I don't know if he taped his magazines together or not, but he used what he had to good effect. He was the creme de la creme of scumbags. He was a murdering lowlife, but he was a badass for sure.
raymond454 1 month ago
@raymond454 yeah my bad i dident mean to say m16.
tanker0wns1 1 month ago
This is why the 10mm and 40 S&W calibers were created as the description states. In addition, most FBI agency's now require their agents to carry, and get proficient with their main gun as well as a back up firearm. (In case it malfunctions, or gets shot). Furthermore, FBI, and Police carry either shotguns, or ar-15's in their vehicles. I'm curious as to whether they were using fmj rounds or hollow points. Another requirement of a lot of agency's is to use the same caliber so they can share ammo
turayde 1 month ago
@turayde Actually the 10mm was developed in the late 70's from a shortened .30 cal rifle case. Norma ammo later made much of the test ammo.I think the 10mm was commercially available around 1983/1984. After Miami the FBI toyed with the 10mm & had the "10mm lite" 125gr load created.I've heard that S&W came up with the .40 Super for the FBI? supposedly originated from a cut down 10mm case.S&W mass produced the .40 S&W using small primer brass Fed Premium 10mm HS 180gr JHP has great stopping power.
70scarrestoguy 1 month ago
@70scarrestoguy your probably accurate, I'm not sure where the origins of the 10mm and 40 S&W came from however I know that the FBI predominately use these calibers due to this shootout.
turayde 4 weeks ago
@word688 Believe it or not, neither Matix nor Platt was found to have been running on anything besides natural adrenaline. They were completely clean.
StAraqiel 1 month ago
they took good hits because they were high maybe on h
i remember these clowns shootings guards,the swat team was made for this kind of act
word688 1 month ago
Why does the Mini 14 shoot in FA?
CthuluDownUnder 2 months ago
Comment removed
CthuluDownUnder 2 months ago
@CthuluDownUnder It's an ac556 in this movie
HiCapacity 2 months ago
@HiCapacity Do you know if it was an ac556 in real life or a Mini-14?
CthuluDownUnder 2 months ago
@CthuluDownUnder It was a mini 14
HiCapacity 2 months ago
@CthuluDownUnder they may have modified it to shoot on full auto. the guys in the orth hollywood shootout in 1997 made all their bullets hollwpoints by doctoring around with them. also back in the 1970s the IRA recieved about 1000 m16s that were semi auto yet they managed to make them all full auto and used them to great effect against the british army in northern ireland.
1860george 1 month ago
@1860george That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I am an expert on the North hollywood shooout. They didn't modify SHIT. It was chinese steel core ammunition. Which means it's armor piercing. They converted the AK's to full auto yes. But Platt did NOT convert his mini to full auto. Hollow points.. lololololo.
HiCapacity 1 month ago
wasn't the whole shootout supposed to be less than 5 minutes?
iNorman01 2 months ago
Zombie action at 6:29! Ha.
bgomusicco 2 months ago
You can view the official FBI after action report at the Firearms Tactical Institute website.
extantia 2 months ago
If this really happened I'll bet the FBI spent 10 years studying why and making sure all of their agents study it, as well.
TheForwardGaze 3 months ago
@TheForwardGaze
It did happen, you should look it up.
They still probably are dumbfounded on how they could screw up this badly.
Usul573 2 months ago
thumbs up if your watching this vid from watching toms "Birth of the .40 vid :D
good shit tom
jayharo44 3 months ago
I remember watching this when it first came out. Probably the most vicious and violent tv movie of the late 80s.
bhbluebird 3 months ago
if the above scene is true when he shot those two blokes in the car they were not presenting a threat and not holding a gun.....is that called murder or is self defence laws different in the states?
hardman476 3 months ago
@hardman476 Not presenting a threat? Seriously? Two agents were already dead, five others wounded including Edmundo himself, was he supposed to run over and determine how functional these two killers still were before deciding whether to continue using deadly force?
10splitter 3 months ago 11
@10splitter going by the film which i doubt it relistic..........at the end the peice of shit stops shooting and sits down in front seat! he is not pointing the gun at anyone thus not presenting a threat AT THAT MOMENT.....so if the copper shoots him in that moment when the scum ball is not pointing a gun at the said coppper; that would be classed as unlawfull ! thats what i meant and thats whats it looks like in the film! as i said maby us law is different
hardman476 3 months ago
@hardman476 Legally, if you ever present a deadly threat to a Federal Agent (even so much as pointing a firearm at them), any Federal agent is allowed by law to shoot and kill you.
For a reference to a situation that establishes this right, search in Google: "Cleveland heights: off duty fbi agent shoots teen robber"
First article, should be by WKYC, last two paragraphs tell you what you need to know.
Check the last two paragraphs.
Bizmark87 2 months ago 3
@Bizmark87 i understand that; but what say if the scum ball fires at the federal agent (exchange of gunfire) afterwards the scum ball drops the gun, but is still in the car......he is no posing a threat any more..but i pose if the police cant see the scum ball hands they would still shoot......?? in take they shoot to stop?
over here the police are required if they are forced to fire; they must re asses the situration before firing another shot ie. no double taps !
hardman476 2 months ago
@hardman476 most probally they'll stop shooting when they see his gun dropping out of the car, and him having both hands out of the car.. so..
drac00n 2 months ago
@hardman476 After your friends get killed and the guys who did it were still alive tell me if you are gonna be mercifull toward the people who did it
gaminghero47 2 weeks ago
@gaminghero47 If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Showing mercy is to ask for mercy in return, who knows you just may need it. It's a concept called honor and some people have been known to take pride in it.
TheOdelayhomes69 1 week ago
@TheOdelayhomes69 There's no honor in a situation like this, you are going in knowing your not gonna give mercy and you wont expect none in return. you are acting like they are the north going up against the south over land rights. These people are just a bunch of thugs that don't care who they hurt.
gaminghero47 1 week ago
@gaminghero47 now when you say "these people" I certainly hope you dont mean the agents who gave their life to ensure the fact that more innocent werent hurt by those 2 monsters. You cant be gthat ignorant say they were a "bunch of thugs". please tell me your smarter then that.
DubSouljah1991 5 days ago
@DubSouljah1991 Of course Im on the side of the FBI and when I say thugs I mean the people trying to kill the FBI.
gaminghero47 5 days ago
@gaminghero47 ok for a second It looked like you were referring to the agents
DubSouljah1991 5 days ago
@10splitter I know right? I mean I'm a "liberal" who often complains about police causing unnecessary deaths but I don't see anything wrong with what the FBI agent did here.
ummonk 2 months ago
@hardman476 What sort of a moron are you? These two guys were wanted in connection with a half-dozen different armored car/bank robberies, several murders, and the one (Platt) killed two FBI agents and wounded five more during this firefight. Using lethal force to prevent them from fleeing the scene was not only necessary, it was the only way to stop them.
OhioGuy19 2 months ago
@hardman476 Not to mention, Platt sustained a non-survivable wound early in the fight, the wound that severed the right brachial and collapsed the right lung. He continued fighting until he sustained a hit to the USC by Edmundo. It was the upper spinal hit that finally caused him to go limp, at which he time he simply finished bleeding to death. However, letting them leave that scene and possibly kill citizens/police was NOT an option.
OhioGuy19 2 months ago
And the FBI blamed the bullets.
Sometimes shootouts don't go as planned.
Migs4000 3 months ago
it was a lot of things...non standard guns between the agents, some not having their guns holstered, so they went flying during the car crash, some lost their eye glasses in the crash, not enough ammo or spare magazines, etc.
labartic 3 months ago
"I'm outta here. AHHHHH!"
*crawls out slowly and gets shot*
SecretService80 3 months ago
I wish I could see actual footage of this shootout. I highly doubt there is any out there but if it was, I doubt it would be released.
AdmiralGST 3 months ago
Awesome. ANd based on a true event which makes the scene more horiffic.
codename617 3 months ago
Movie isn't accurate. There was no fully-automatic weapons used. The perps used a shotgun, 357mag and mini-14 (223cal) semi-automatic. Of the eight FBI agents involved two were killed and five were seriously wounded. Both perps were killed-- one with six shots and the other with 12. This shoot out resulted in the FBI adopting the 40cal semi-automatice pistol.
Richi007ish 4 months ago
@Richi007ish Well they adopted the 10mm, which then resulted them adopting the .40s&w. The FBI found agents had trouble with the 10mm recoil. So Smith and Wesson made the .40cal. Similar ballistics, less felt recoil.
DesertPrepper 4 months ago
Patrol rifles are a great idea. I have a Bushmaster and I love it.
tru7hmnb 4 months ago
Watch 3:00, that was perfect how that agent covered the other!
Agent1W 4 months ago
also why is it that the 9mm is sorta not respecful caliber but i think it is a great caliber because it will harm the enemy but not enough to kill the target unless you hit the target in the right spot and the goverment or whoever made the 40 smith and wesson or even suggested it is a douche
l85a1user 4 months ago
@l85a1user The suspects both took serious hits early in the fight the problem is that they were both beasts.
DEP717 2 months ago
the 9mm is and always will be the greatest firearm caliber but of course just the people think it's underpowered typical
l85a1user 4 months ago
All those cops and not one head shot! If you have a gun you should learn how to use it.
slickmicky54 4 months ago
@slickmicky54 You've been playing way too many video games. Shots to the head don't necessarily mean instant kills. There was a man who was shot in the head three times at point blank range who survived. I would like to see how you would have done in this shootout. These men were very brave. Have some respect for them.
thedmundfitz 4 months ago
@thedmundfitz i have a lot of respect for those men.I dont have a lot of respect for the people in charge who send in those men poorly armed and without PROPER back up. I do not play video games as you do,to know what is on them! The british police would not have played about, they would not have allowed them selves to get in that situation. but thats british police not american.
slickmicky54 4 months ago
@slickmicky54 The British police? They don't even carry handguns! Look who's talking about not being properly armed! And the backup did eventually come, they can only get there so quickly. I would say they were pretty well armed (they all had larger caliber handguns and one of them had a shotgun), but it could have been better for such dangerous suspects. Then again, they may not have known that the criminals had an assault rifle. It's a misinformed generalization that you made.
thedmundfitz 4 months ago
@slickmicky54 don't be a douche i've would have shot him in his heart so shut the fuck up
l85a1user 4 months ago
which are the cops? lol
spartacon5267 4 months ago
@shootcentermass lol
meldon100 4 months ago
damn thats some crazy shit, glad the feds were able to get them in the end!!
elw619 4 months ago
I love how the F.B.I. made a new cartridge ".40 s&w" because the 9mm is "underpowered" yet the 9mm is the fatal round that killed platt...it's not the fact that the f.b.i. used 6 shooters like they are in a cowboy western against someone with a mini-14 with two mags taped together...and could not shot for shit.....just blame it on the cartridge......they should of all had full auto mp-5s or ar-15 shortys
usmc2076 5 months ago
@usmc2076
"they should of all had full auto mp-5s or ar-15 shortys"
Do you like high tax rates?
ZombieLincoln666 5 months ago
@ZombieLincoln666
Are you assuming that the Fed's lack that kind of firepower?
HiciacetKolas 4 months ago
@HiciacetKolas
They apparently did
ZombieLincoln666 4 months ago
Comment removed
HiciacetKolas 4 months ago
Comment removed
HiciacetKolas 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ZombieLincoln666
At least two agents involved brought 12 gauge shotguns, but only one was used because the other agent left his in the back seat where he couldn't safely reach it. One agent didn't have a weapon at all because he lost his in the vehicle collision and didn't think to bring a back up, two agents had MP5's, and four others had more shotguns and some M16's, but they weren't involved in the firefight because they didn't arrive in time. Only two agents decided to wear body armor.
HiciacetKolas 4 months ago
@ZombieLincoln666
This really isn't a issue of the FBI being underarmed that additional finances can solve. All that really happened here is that the agents involved were probably just not expecting to run into these guys within the first fifteen minutes on their first day of the stakeout. They simply did not adequately prepare themselves. Which is why six stakeout agents didn't even make it to the firefight and why only two were wearing their body armor.
HiciacetKolas 4 months ago
@HiciacetKolas
The caliber they were using did not have enough stopping power (at least that's what an FBI investigation concluded). Seems obvious, since it took multiple hits to take them down. Had they all been using .357 mags from the beginning, the fight would have ended much sooner.
ZombieLincoln666 4 months ago
i remember seeing this on tv that year
str8sick 5 months ago
Probably pointless now because I believe most agencies carry an AR or mini 14 in the cruiser now, but I wonder why they don't start carrying slugs for the shotguns? There is a risk of over penetration, but if there is a safe shot they are a one shot stop and extremely accurate. An ounce or more of lead going 1200 fps. Ouch.
remogaggi82 5 months ago
@synthpathetic - why didn;'t they play tiddlywinks with them? idiot.
uninformedluddite 5 months ago
Are civilians allowed to help out in a situation like this? Where there is little backup for the officers? I don't know if I'd be brave enough, but I'd like the option.
uchio 5 months ago
@uchio First off:How would you know the good guys from the bad guys? Excluding combat veterans, I don't think very many civilians could function effectively under that type of fire.Even experienced hunters claim adrenaline rush gives them the shakes, imagine if the deer were shooting back.A civilian who would volunteer to be thrust into that situation probably has unrealistic expectations or thinks them self invincible.An untrained citizen shooting at criminals from behind my position? No thanks
70scarrestoguy 1 month ago
No wonder it took the FBI so long to kill the suspects, they kept closing their eyes as they shot.
Kvjavs 5 months ago
Shosanna Dreyfus could have done a better job.
Ethanaxelrod 5 months ago
Of course, the shootout happened at 12201 SW 82 Ave in Pinecrest, FL, which was a house, not an apartment building...and across the street is a commercial building. Today, a plaque and memorial stands to mark the site, and 82 Ave has been named in the Agents' honor. The agent's glasses were thrown off in the collision of the two cars, one other agent had a shotgun but couldn't get to it.
varadarcop 5 months ago
how about North Hollywood Shoot out in 1997? I thought that was pretty violent.
tien714 5 months ago
@tien714 yes but no one was killed. Well except for the suspects.
uchio 5 months ago
@uchio By sheer luck, what are the odds of over 1700 bullets killing only the 2 suspects?
If luck wasn't heavily on LAPD side i guess at least 10 officers would've been killed along with a lot more civilians.
haghaghaghaag 5 months ago
@haghaghaghaag Luck yes definitely. Among with some other factors. Like the fact that the suspects were probably more interested in getting away than killing everyone. Or the fact that AK-47s on full auto are not very accurate. And of course, the LAPD SWAT for killing them before they could cause more harm.
uchio 5 months ago
looks like the A Team except for people got hurt
nathanial41 6 months ago
If you read the full report(and watch the interviews of the surviving agents) on the incident, it's far more terrifying that what comes across in this flick. SAs were horribly outgunned, trying to stop a moving, motivated assailant, through barriers w/ .38 & 9mm 115gr HPs... Slingshot marbles at a pissed off grizzly. "Stopping power" is a misnomer. The shot that hit Pratt as he 1st crawled out of the car was killing him... slowly. But 1st he killed 2 SAs, and wounded 5 more.
Hour13GT 6 months ago
Not the 10mm! It had already been developed by Jeff Cooper. The FBI considered the 10mm after the shooting. But, found it to have to much operational recoil. Thus the scaled down version the 40sw was developed.
ejones721 6 months ago
1:38 i never knew the dodge diplomat came with that roof option
dodgedip123 6 months ago
@dodgedip123 Could be a Fury,
MrAmphicar770 6 months ago
@MrAmphicar770 its a dodge for sure! the grill is black and says dodge and its taillights are silver
dodgedip123 6 months ago
Neat that most of the police cars, and FBI Cruisers are Diplomats,
MrAmphicar770 6 months ago
I find this pretty similar to what happened to Babyface Nelson (he was crazier than these guys. He'd shoot you just for cutting him off). Except he was using a semi-automatic rifle and was firing it so fast, witnesses thought it was a machine gun. Look up the Battle of Barrington. True stary, too BTW.
ShadyWillKilBieberXD 7 months ago
get into their car. All of this with a punctured lung, a half paralyzed and copiously bleeding right arm, some minor wounds and firing his carbine from his left shoulder. Talk about stopping power!
ColonelKostman 7 months ago
This reenactment has some MAJOR innacuracies, most of which have been already pointed out. The most important thing: Platt, despite his deadly lung wound and his malfunctioning right arm wasn't slowed down in any way and certainly didn't stagger like a zombie. He took cover begind cars, used suppressive fire on agents and waited for the right moment to pop out and shot Grogan and Dove. It must've took him less than three seconds to shoot Grogan, Dove and Hanlon and no more than five seconds to
ColonelKostman 7 months ago
@profsat5 Actually, there were six other agents who didn't catch up with the men involved, and they had shotguns, MP5s and M16s. Had they shown up sooner, the gunfight would've turned in the FBI's favor, and Grogan and Dove may have lived.
StAraqiel 7 months ago
@StAraqiel Hell, if these guys had their shotguns in the front seat, or if that guy hadn't dropped his glasses, this gunfight would have been a pretty quick thing.
John234pwns 6 months ago
Weapons education sent me
TheIronicBanana 7 months ago
I love who courageous the local cops were hiding behind their squad cars.
VinnyS914 7 months ago
@VinnyS914 The movie is totally inaccurate in this regard... Two police officers came to the scene...one of them threw himself over Agent McNeill's paralyzed body to protect him.
varadarcop 5 months ago
I remember that movie,true story,if you want to see a great true story see if this is on DVD.The bad guys were ex special forces and they used mini-14s and 357 mags.They were two that the FBI knew was going to be trouble but the FBI turned down special weapons and stayed with there own side arms.
profsat5 7 months ago
I didn't see the "bad guys" reload once.
AnthonyTotheRescue 7 months ago
@AnthonyTotheRescue I saw the one bad guy reload his mini 14 once but that was it.
kumadog286 7 months ago
@kumadog286 - he really didn't add another mag or reload. It appeared that he simply turned the original mag up onto it's opposite end and starting shooting again. I didn't know a mag was made that way...
goofydog2 7 months ago
@goofydog2 it was just a simple contraption... it was two magazines taped together, one's mouth stiking out further than the others end, so that he could take one magazine out, and just flip it to reload to the next magazine...hope that made sense...
kumadog286 7 months ago
@kumadog286 - Thanks! I never would have figured that out!!! ...Man, that was one bad guy scratching for a way to survive. That's a scary, scary story. This guy seemed motivated to live so he could shoot anyone who had shot at him. Took a lickin' and kept on tickin'!!!
goofydog2 7 months ago
Adrenaline will keep u moving
njflavag 7 months ago
I have a hard time believing that a man could be shot about 10 times and still be walking
tioscha0 7 months ago
@tioscha0 that truly happened. Check out the miami shoutout on wikipedia.
By the way, only in "hollywood" movies a gunfire shot project oneself 3 meters behind letting it instantly killed. Every hunter knows that.
Specifically when the calibers involved are small.
niksarass 7 months ago
@tioscha0 V for Vandetta!!!
gr8Sweetfox 7 months ago
Goes like a robot at 6:27
mrsierraleone007 8 months ago
Comment removed
MrCaribbean 8 months ago
I will take a clean in and out from a 7.62x51mm then a little 55 grain bastard hitting me at 3100 fps outta a 20 inch barrel only to fragment like a hand grenade 8 inchs in my chest....223 is punny MY ASS!!!!
usmc2076 8 months ago
@usmc2076 And if you're using 82 grain bullets that don't penetrate in the least and pass through the target?
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns ok?
usmc2076 8 months ago
@usmc2076 Point is the .223 only fragments in very specific conditions.
John234pwns 8 months ago
@usmc2076 Also, I meant "not fragment but overpenetrate."
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns sounds good.
usmc2076 8 months ago
and people frown upon my beloved little .223 round :(
usmc2076 8 months ago
@usmc2076 "Beloved .223...Probably one of the most devestating rounds out there. Penetrates most armor, cruises through the body like a Mexican Jumping Bean! I would not want to get hit by one!
jimmymac63 8 months ago in playlist Hollywood Shootout
@jimmymac63 try and tell that to most people....thier always stuck on bigger is better.
usmc2076 8 months ago
My Criminal Justice Professor show us this video to discuss what went wrong and how things could of be avoided and how the fbi change their training
andrewm211 8 months ago
@andrewm211 Great comment, thanks for your input!
weaponseducation 8 months ago
Damn.i guess the badguys had a huge heart to lkeep going shitty
4legalize20 8 months ago
@4legalize20 Thanks for watching!
weaponseducation 8 months ago
damn
Kclaybond 8 months ago
THE 80S WERE PRETTY CRAZY
lilmarwanrock 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'm curious as to why it took the cops so long to show up to the scene.
asoka2000 8 months ago
Comment removed
asoka2000 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is a movie u retard
ExorFILMS 8 months ago
More cop terminator than robohutch
manipool 8 months ago
And the wonder nines were born. R.I.P. F.B.I. IT'S A Shame the agency had to learn the hard way. It was just last year that Arizona and other states L.E. agencies wanted to arm their patrolmen with AR's. Of course the higher ups refused.
thatguy66ish 8 months ago
I know i am a marine...but theres no way i am going into a combat situation with a 6 shot .38 and no armor.....soft armor and a m-16 with 5 mags minimum!
usmc2076 8 months ago
@usmc2076 Thanks for watching & THANK YOU for your service!
weaponseducation 8 months ago
@weaponseducation welcome sir.
usmc2076 8 months ago
I wish the FBI would of settled on the 10mm then my ammo would be alot cheaper.
BSRadar100 8 months ago
isn't that burt from tremors
DRprofessorBOOTY 8 months ago
@DRprofessorBOOTY yes it is..to bad he did not bring all of his guns from tremors or he would still be alive in this one XD...i kill myself
usmc2076 8 months ago
David Soul - "Starsky & Hutch" .....
dcselwitz 8 months ago
checkout out my video on this shootout at weaponseducation on you tube. The birth of the .40 caliber.
weaponseducation 8 months ago 28
@weaponseducation Amazing that this infamous FBI fiasco was ended by using the oldest technology in the fight: a Smith & Wesson revolver firing 38 Special +P 158 grain lead hollow-points. The Hi-tech firepower, particularly the "Wonder Nines" were marginal at best.
It's not the gun, but the guy behind the gun that matters!
I imagine that even in this era of "Assault Rifles" one of a SWAT teams worst nightmares would be engaging expert riflemen armed with 30-30 Marlin lever actions!
coltperc 8 months ago
@coltperc Most of the hits were with the automatic pistols, it seems. The inherent issue with this conflict was completely human. One guy doesn't carry enough spare ammo and has to retreat to reload his magazines. Another lost his glasses and didn't have spares. Many left their body armor and long arms in the back seat of their cars, where it was inaccessible.
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns The hits with the 9mm Autos failed to stop due to over-expansion and shallow penetration. The ammo was based on the 70's era Justice Dept "Relative Incapacitation Index" that emphasized rapid expansion for maximum temporary cavity effect. That theory was totally discredited by many notorious failures to stop. The 38 lead HP's expanded adequately boring large holes, & the bullet is heavy enough to penetrate deep and smash any bones in its path; ammo works well & is still used!
coltperc 8 months ago
@coltperc The 9mm 125 grain JHP is still one of the most popular defensive calibers. If I recall correctly, that Marshal guy who did the one-shot stop study also noted it had a very high one shot stop.
Also, shot placement. Those .38s hit while the men were stationary in a car. They were hit in the head and chest. Many of the 9mm hits were not to the cardiovascular triangle.
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns Modern 9mm 125 gr JHP is MUCH better than the FBI rounds that failed to stop in 1986, and had they been used in 1986 may well have ended the fight very early. That being said, for my personal CCW use I now use 357 Mag revolvers exclusively, due to the extreme versatility. Heavy 357 loads approach 30-30 performance from a Marlin/Rossi 357 lever action rifle for a formidable combo punch. A favorite carry load remains the 38 +P 158 gr lead HP in both 900 fps and 1100+ fps loadings!
coltperc 8 months ago
@coltperc Yeah, I prefer the .38 Spl over .357 Mag too. Out of a short barrel carry piece, a lot more manageable and shootable - and the hits are what count.
John234pwns 8 months ago
This is why i have TWO guns on me at all times them basterds!!!!!
5sranch 8 months ago
man this guy was pretty tough to take that many hits and still be standing. But better training of the FBI would have helped.
TaZ101SAGA 9 months ago
He fires best that fires last!
MCneun 9 months ago
this incident led to the production of the 40. cal ammo of today. now alot of law enforement agencies carry a semi auto pistol with .40 cal ammo. .40 cal has more stopping power then the 9mm, and semi auto pistols can be reloaded alot quicker, and possibly reloaded w/ 1 hand if you know how to. things that may have saved the agents their lives. now many law enforcement agencies are carrying semi auto m4 rifles more, due to the north hollywood shootout.
TheGixxxer750 9 months ago
@Pill88Dickle Good one.
mjm4222 9 months ago
damn I wish this could have been caught on camera!
aaronrocs 9 months ago
@6:16 Zombie with a gun
Bencook9139 9 months ago
@Bencook9139 First thought that came to my mind instead was Robo-Hutch (instead of RoboCop)
sed1228 9 months ago
25 years ago today. to bad the good guys didn't do so well. RIP Ben and Jerry.
mjm4222 9 months ago
not the fbi's finest hour.
neoconsnightmare3 9 months ago
Comment removed
xQuIkSiLVeRMDx 9 months ago
mike platt was one mean son of a bitch
booterie 9 months ago
Not saying it would have changed anything or not but the fbi agents had s/w 19s but only carryed .38+p ammo. What would have made a difference for sure is the m16 that one of the other agents was armed with, sadly he didnt get to the shot out.
fn1046 9 months ago
By the way, Platt's Mini-14 was only semi-auto.
255nwa 10 months ago
So the FBI went from a round they didn't trust (the 9mm) to a round they couldn't hit anything with (the 10mm).
WinchesterRanger 10 months ago
I got me a mini 14.
MrAppleseed88 10 months ago
They're using Smith & Wesson 459's in 9mm, and Smith & Wesson Model 10's in .38 Special...This is why they started packin' the 10mm's.
SecretService80 10 months ago
@SecretService80 Which ended up causing more issues than they solved anyway.
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns Now they got .40 Glocks...
SecretService80 8 months ago
@SecretService80 Didn't they go back to 1911s recently?
John234pwns 8 months ago
@John234pwns I don't believe so. I think they still carry the Glock 22.
SecretService80 8 months ago
hey isn't one of the shooters the dad from family ties?
michaeldavis678 10 months ago
@michaeldavis678 yes he did play the dad on family ties
bluebirds40 9 months ago 3
What a great gun the Mini 14 is, but too bad it took part of this tragic event.
atatkfighter 10 months ago
and hes a zombie
TheHouseMafia53 10 months ago
this guy has got a 400 tousand round mag
TheHouseMafia53 10 months ago
sick video
tamatopoterskywalker 10 months ago
Jesus their Kevlar vests were huge back then.
engine173351 10 months ago
@engine173351 they are just in 80s cutting.
RaptureandZune 10 months ago
I believe 1 of the criminals had been an army airborne ranger or some kind of elite-level combat soldier. This event also brought what some call post mortem mobility into law enforcement tactics e.g. "knockdown power" calibers. The FBI exhaustively studied the efficacy of several caliber handguns; the 10mm was shown to be most effective but its heavy recoil & overpenetration gave rise to the .40. Platt&Mattix suffered unsurvivable wounds in the opening seconds of the gunfight.
oeyesea 10 months ago
Comment removed
John234pwns 11 months ago
@synthpathetic Hard to get perfect headshots when you're trying not to get your own ass blasted by a dude with a much bigger gun from just a few feet away.
John234pwns 11 months ago
Its been an interesting debate,and no doubt you are keen to have the last word,but I rest my case and leave it for others to judge.Let us agree to differ.My final point is that its no good going on about past glories,when the present is looking less attractive for you every news bulletin.Rather than reflecting propaganda,energy should be placed in rectifying the enormous problems your country,and its military,have in the present.This is my challenge to you,and my final word in this matter.
10APC 11 months ago
@10APC not much of a debate since you clearly have a limited knowledge of the british military and have failed to come up with examples whereby Britain has failed on such a colossal scale as America has in recent years. A better example of true military courage is to be found in our retaking of the Falkland islands in 1982. Grenanda and Panama are nothng compared to that. After all they were in your own backgarden.
JFDA5458 11 months ago
@10APC I'm saddened that you've decided to end my seminar to you on the relative merits of the British and US military. But please do feel free to contact me on this subject again, or indeed any other which you feel you need correcting on.
JFDA5458 11 months ago