Carol Anne Duffy....and what we think of her

[JimmiBabi]

I don't like a lot of Duffy's poetry, but I do like this one. There's a lot more to 'Valentine' than you appear to realise, for example, it isn't 'throwing symbolism in your face', it's a conceit. Despite it being written for the radio there's no reason for you to conclude that it isn't based on real feelings - she herself has been quoted saying 'poetry can't lie'. PS. 'To His Coy Mistress' is an ironic parody of courtly love and was probably written satirically instead of to a specific person.

[handbagsatdusk]

What really is the point of this 'rant'?

A poem can be interpreted as one wants - as can a piece of music - irrespective of how a musician intended it.

Put your time to more positive use rather than picking apart nonsense...

[KurdishHypercurve]

You are 20 ? You sound double that !

[smb40]

scottish education's different from english, so you really shouldn't 'british education' :/

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

@smb40 Apart from being called "standard grade" the differences are roughly equivlient to the differences between one county and another. The fundimental structure is basicly the same. The content varies slightly, but there arn't different qualifications etc.

[manthelittleearthgod]

Fuck! How about YOU not shouting at US, "SYMBOLISM! SYMBOLISM!" What you're criticizing her for is precisely what you're doing to us. Isn't there a way to edit your audio or write your thoughts down ahead of time so that you can make a clear, concise point without rattling on. Oh and "To His Coy Mistress" is by Andrew Marvell (which you never give him credit for), and basically it's about a guy who can't get it into his head that this chick really isn't interested in him. Sound familiar?

[osakanone]

The obvious thing is that love is simple yet complex. Moving on, love is bitter.

If you bother comparing it to her other work, it is intentionally manufactured for a radio audience.

It has to be fake so idiots will 'understand' the bitter connotations.

l understand she's doing it to annoy anyone with a brain as an example of what not makes a good poem.

You are SUPPOSED to hate it.

From the sounds of it, it has worked.

Now go read 'The World's Wife'.

Its much better than this drivel.

[stevejah7]

spell her name right !

[MsTilscher]

Thanks for approving my video response :) I would far rather dispute poetry's worth than ignore the work. It's tough doing exams and any new slant is good. I just love Duffy's stuff and just wanted kids I taught to see the joy ... I wish I had had you and your anthology in my classroom ;D x

[phenomenology87]

Did you consider that valentines by their very nature are symbols and that this was a pragmatic subversion of this? It would be quite difficult to illustrate that without the use of symbolism wouldn't you say?

You only really seem to have one argument. Perhaps your AO2 marks let you down and earned you that c. Your main problem seems to centre on the fact that it's just not your cup of tea. (That's symbolism by the way.)

Please tell me it didn't take you 4 years to come up with this?!

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

@phenomenology87 My problem is not with the symbolism itself, its the use of nothing but it that is the problem.

[KeetzMaWeetz]

You have problems.

[RedSeaCoral]

u lost me at 0:34 seconds mate

[ledzeppelin992]

'Onion' rhymes with 'Bunion', and that's a fuckin hilarious word!!

[loveelle94]

my god you sound about 50

[realzoomy]

I was at the same school as Carol Ann Duffy, Stafford Girl's High School. Stafford has tried to airbrush that excellent school out of the annals of history I cannot think why this is so, it's crazy.

I am one of the Staffordshire Pindown victims and Miss Dawson, the headmistress of the school was very kind to me. The local authorities tried to make out I had been expelled, to cover up the abuse.

[broseph127]

the poem is mediochre, but this youtube clip is unnecessary. one tiny, not very good radio show poem does not warrant a bullshit video like this. i get the general notion that you are a loser, not based on any particular evidence other than your characteristics in this sound clip. i feel agrivated that i wandered on to this video and actually listened to it all the way through thinking that you would make a valid, original point.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

@broseph127 Well you really are making a generalisation then. You really can't criticise me for not making a point if your going to insult me using an undefined term based on a exceptionally insignificent piece of evidence.

[broseph127]

@SFRobertsDickClarke

you basically just repeated what I said

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

@broseph127 You called me a loser based on this video. That's a generalisation. I called CAD's poem bad based on an argument. Not the same. You're making a very wide generalisation based on nothing at all. I'm making a very narrow specific comment based on a single piece of evidence.

[broseph127]

@SFRobertsDickClarke

ffffffrrrrt really top show, sir. really very well done. you are very scientific. all this talk of arguements and generalisations and narrow specifics, singularities and iotas, quantums and squantums and poos and tards, it is really going to get us somewhere. let's continue this conversaion, really we should.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

@broseph127 Right, because you can't make a point, you act foolishly. Well done.

[NewMoonIV]

Tomorrow I will be sitting an A-level English Lit exam and my modern poet is Duffy. In my class many have often complained about Duffy being "preachey" and really hammering home a point, however I think that Valentine is not really an example of this and that you're taking the poem a little too seriously. Like you said, the poem is being realistic about love, but I think the aspects of love over-shadow the fact it's like an onion so you should focus on the reductive qualities of love more.

[27amzywamzy10]

Why are you even arguing about whether theres the word 'poetess' about?? If there is, there is. Just cos YOU haven't heard it.

[BetaComplex]

I see the points you're making

entertaining

:)

thats how i feel like in my AS lessons when reading through some poetry in world's wife....

XD

well done

[Mahoney8T7]

i did her stuff in year 12 sixth form and i found it weird but fascinating

[brunsk123]

Ooops - Typical teacher...goes on too much!! Or as one of the kids said today, "yap yap yap Miss".. That put me in my place!!

[andgadoline]

Lol this is great, really funny....thanx for posting

[LIFEISACAB]

Exactly brunsk123... that, or just plain ignorance!!

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

I don't think its an assult on my credability because I don't see it as a personal attack. It is an image that represents my opinion of her poetic skills. And I couldn't say exactly how many I have met, but it is a v large number. At least I would say fifty or sixty.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Because all the ones I've met who studied it share a simmilar opinion. And I'm sorry you didn't like the image ridicule, but if you looked, it had an onion thought bubble. the point was a ridicule of her piece. Its easier to do it with images, rather than a picture of the poem.

[soemo1993]

Haha, first "alphaspecie224" Id love to see you write a poem anything like hers, also you obviously arnt intelectual enough to understand the mature realitys in these poems! I personally think its pathetic to post such immature poems grow up!

[AjoseRow]

I wnet to a poetry reading, she was there and Im pretty sire that she was drunk becuase ehr words were slurred and she paused for a logn time inbetween poems. Rumor has it that she had a bottle of wiskey before, but then again she may just naturally talk like a boring old person!

[alphaspecie224]

Carol Ann Duffy, is a BIG, FAT, BORING, ANNOYING VOICED, LESBIAN! and her poems are shit!

[LIFEISACAB]

N.B. Her name is Carol Ann Duffy.

[LIFEISACAB]

"She didn't feel a genuine love, she was just being elitist about symbolism."

CAD told me (and can be referenced in many other texts) on many occasions, that she wrote this about love, in all it's forms (see comments below regarding one's own interpretation too). If you think she is being elitist in any way, you don't know CAD, or her work.

I'll pass this on... she'll think this is languid!

[guttershark09]

I can't stand CAD. I was writing poetry at her standard aged 12. Feminism is stupid.

[DemisePSC]

I'm seeing Carol Ann Duffy at PoetryLive as well on Wednesday, and now I'm convinced she's gonna be beating the shit out of the word sybolism ;) aha, this made me lol, good job :)

[floboto]

Dude your speaking would be way more awesome if you... umm.. scripted! :P

[bluebananacupcakes]

Did it ever occur to you that you could enjoy the poem in whatever way you wanted? The origins of the piece are irrelevant to your personal experiences of it, and you seem unable to see past the technical aspect of symbolism to the message of honesty and love that are at the centre of the poem. Alternatively at least you have an opinion, which was both sincere and funny!

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

I see what she's trying to express about honesty and love, but she uses this one technique so repeadly and so repeatively that it seems more to me like she's trying to venerate symbolisim as something deep and meaningful. Although I'm glad you enjoyed it

[LIFEISACAB]

'repeatively' is not a word I'm afraid. Try 'repetitively'. That may explain your C grade...

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Of course, because I do my very best with my spelling on Youtube, and its reflective of what I do when in an exam room...

[LIFEISACAB]

What.. spell incorrectly?

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Do you understand the concept of sarcasm or are you just being delibrately obtuse.

[LIFEISACAB]

I'm just not sure I, or the English language for that matter, can equate sarcasm with incorrect spelling- oh dear. That was me being sarcastic.

You have typed 'simmlilar' below; I would learn how to spell if I were you...

And you've made another mistake above.....

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Wow. You're mocking spelling over the internet. Truely, you are a paradon of wit and intellegence.

[24thingstodo]

lol, you're pretty funny, but valentine is not about the oninon, it's about love, the onion is the scope . . . yes it was a challenge to compare love to something unlike love, i bet you could't do it. I enjoy your frustration, but you sincerely remind me of the jock in my class who waa]s like 'yuck, how unromantic' i think you're just struck by her awesomeness, and the moon wrapped in brown paper;love is different from averyone

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

No, you missed the point. I know the poem was about love, that wasn't what I was getting at. My point was however that it just seemed such an overuse of symbolism. She didn't feel a genuine love, she was just being elitist about symbolism.

[24thingstodo]

else, and fuck to his coy mistress . . . that flea that was not love that was wanton sexual gratification! Maybe it's b/c I'm a girl; and speak of symbolism, the flea was used as a marriage and wedding chamber . . . you and your dainty little head . . .

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

I think you have to remember that at the time of the writing of THCM, life span was significently lower than it is now, so actually, sexual gratification and love were simmilarly expressed.

[24thingstodo]

you mean poetess

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Poet = Person who writes poetry. Why does it need specification if they are a man or a women.

[67hob]

No, Poet = man who writes poetry

Poetess = woman who writes poetry

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

I would have just said "Poet = Person who writes pomes". Doesnt seem something very male or female about that.

[67hob]

Wrong. Poet is masculine. You wouldn't say that an emperor can be male or female would you?

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Also, what about teacher, doctor, laywer, firefighter, police offcier, soldier, writer etc. All these things do not have feminised forms for women because that is better. They don't define the person, they define what they do.

[67hob]

They are only 'better' in your opinion. Arguably they just make the word clearer. You can say 'I have a child' but it is clearer to say 'I have a girl' or 'boy'. Similarly you can say this video is about 'someone who writes poetry' or about a 'poet' or 'poetess'. The reason why the examples you've given don't have a feminine form is because (up untill very recently) they were all jobs practised solely by men (except writer, for which we have author and authoress).

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Surely its better to have no differenciation, as that only encourages the idea that the people doing the job are somehow diffrent. IE isnt it better to just have the words "male" and "female" and then all the diffrent words for the jobs, rather than invent a new word for every female varient.

[67hob]

Nobody's inventing new words. They are part of the English language, created over many years, many years ago. The 'idea that the people doing the job are somehow different' is true: they are different! Male or female. I really don't see what's wrong with making yourself clearer by utilising a very good English word which has been in existence for many years.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

How does being male or being female make your work as an actor any diffrent? They are diffrent gender, but that has no affect on the fact they are performing etc

[67hob]

Well (in general) men tend to play male characters, while women tend to play female characters. I'm not necessarily advocating the use of gender distinction, I was just pointing out that it exists, should you care to use it.

[mamaf1]

very, very boring critique, worse even than the poetry.

as for the word poet, it isn't a gender-specific noun; "poetess" is an archaic word no longer used by anyone who has any real connection with contemporary culture.

[67hob]

That is an entirely subjective opinion, so please don't present it as fact.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Do you see the word "Poetess" used in ANY mainstream literature today about poetry. I regullarly read writer's magazines and I don't see it there talking about female poets.

[67hob]

Yes, I do see that word actually.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Give me an example of a book or other in print form, in the last 10 years that has used the phrase "poetess" seriously.

[67hob]

I'd love to, but I really don't care enough about this pointless argument to go and find one. I do have a life you know. It sounds to me like you just disagree with the word 'poetess' on principle. All I'm saying is that technically it is the correct word for a female poet. That's all!

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

You're quite right I disagree on principle. IE the principle being that there is no need for seperation where none should exist.

[67hob]

You're going round in circles! 'There is no need for separation' - it's not separation it's making a distinction to clarify one's meaning. 'Where none should exist' - who's to say where it should or should not exist?

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

You are making an unnessecary clarification though. Why should it matter if the person writing a poem is a man or a woman. That should be commuincated by the persons name, not their title.

[67hob]

Nobody's saying it matters! Who decides whether something is necessary or unecessary? In some languages every single adjective adapts to agree with the noun (whether it's masculine or feminine). Whether it's 'necessary' or not is irrelevant - that's just how the language works!

[Allmaxxxx]

im in my first yr of As levels and im taking the same subjects as u. my english GCSE were based on CAD work and so is half of my As course and in my last lesson we were looking at this poem. and we discussed hw she came up with the poem and assumed it was based on her own mishaps in love as it doesnt portray the positive side of love. i agree the radio station being the base of this poem does effect it's meaning.

[jcrj995]

who is narrating?

[mariomaster386]

ur so gayyyyyyyyyyyy

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

I can see what mark you got in GCSE English literature...

[H20isbrill]

no carol duffy is gay

[andydsmith]

what a bore. you don't know shit. i suppose you did make a good point in that poets are definitely worth taking a pop at on youtube, and that nostalgically glancing at your grade C, with a secret mischievous pride of course, and recording the following epiphany, wasn't a complete waste of several hours.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

The point I was making was that the poem seemed to have far too much symbolism in it and not enough actual content. Some people on here have made the point that she was being ironic, which I suppose is fair although she could have been clearer. If you have a specific objection, could you clarify, rather than just being generally insulting

[Grazo22]

i hate carol ann duffy so much

[raven1708]

This poem is not only contradicting the usual commercialism of Valentine's day and, reading it, it's apparent that there is really no romanticism in the metaphor. It seems to highlight the negatives of love.

As for it having no structure, the structure is in the actions. "I give you" and "Here." Think about it.

Regardless, I can almost see where you're coming from, even though I like the poem. Although, you really could have cut five minutes from that video if you didn't repeat yourself so much.

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Hence you can see the reletively unplanned nature of things! Also, I think I was just feeling especially emphatic, hence the repetition. But yes, it would be good if I planned better.

[jrthomas27]

That's really interesting to see someone NOT liking Carol Ann Duffy for once. As for the source- she could have refused, I think 'Valentine' was her 'protest' to their stupidity asking her, of all people, to make an addition to a valentine themed collection. I don't think you can condemn her for 'Valentine'; 'selling manhattan' is far worse; but 'Psychopath' definately redeems her. That's a contribution to my poetry revision; and yes, she is still on A-level syllabus. :)

[SFRobertsDickClarke]

Cant say I've encounterd those two, do you have any links?

[jrthomas27]

Nope, sorry. I'm sure with enough time they could be found on the internet, especially 'Selling Manhattan' which is about a native american chief. Which is just ridiculous, I'm sure she knows nothing about them. I had the Duffy exam last week and they allways choose her tame poems/themes which are generally the worst. That's quite impressive 'Valentine' had such an effect on you, you still remember it 2 years on, well done Duffy!

[ihavefangstoo]

It's supposed to be IRONIC! All of it. The subject, the parallels, the symbolism. I'm not sure either why the fact that it was written for a radio show would bother you - idealistic view of poets perhaps?