EBN Dry Cell - Efficiency Map (w/data)

[MrWagnerHenrique]

Hello! 'm from Brazil. I am trying to mount a cell but I am having difficulty level. between the plates is a blur of brown mass, and corrodes the plates between them, do not know where I am wrong can you help me (316 L stainless steel passivation) visionmachine@bol.com.br

[Me102288]

just short of the water boiling is optimum temp for electrolysis. I found -nnnn+nnnn- config to work best with mine (3/4mm gaps). Also found the lower the voltage to each plate seems to produce more hydroxy.. odd so I'm running a tiny 4" cube dry cell with 11 plates 1.5 litre a min @12volt just under 15 amps.

[2H1O1]

Hi lutherp40 I would like to know if you have info on a 5N5? I have ben working on a 4N5 (4x6) and it looks good.

[lutherp40]

Yes I do. See my "Gap Voltage - Between a Rock and a Hard Place" video.

[NEON271156]

hi luther.

sorry took me time to get back to you but im useing name ...fuelban now... check out ....video.....

FuelBan video 4 EMISSIVITY & Infrared Thermometers HHo Hydr

this shows the problem luther, and when low and high temps have grater and lesser degrees of being wrong, the materials of the units have a lot to do with it to,.... check the vido luther its intresting stuff and quite enlightening....

thanks luther

thom.

[lutherp40]

I have considered the fact that that IR thermometers are not necessarily accurate, but that really wasn't the point. Every measuring device will have inaccuracies. What I needed was a device that read the same way every time i used it. (the error remained consistent each use) and could act as a point of reference to the actual temperature.

[NEON271156]

hi luther P40, where can i get the PDF file donwnload please luther, i would be intrested to look at it.

thanks luther.

thom in scotland.

[lutherp40]

Thats a very good question indeed. The link to it over in the more description is not currently working.

I will need to investigate.

[lutherp40]

The link should be working now.

[birdsnest69]

Have you tryed connecting one positive to one end and negative to the other end, so to speak - with all the plates inbetween being neutral? If so what is the difference between a simple set up as above compared to the other variables in terms of BG production?

[Davehho1]

Also: Temp and lyte concentrations half to be considered too. A lot of varibles to play with.

I'm doubling the size of my cell and going with a bridge and 110vdc next.. Big Fun !

[Davehho1]

Hey Luther,

Ive ran a 26p configuration with 20 to 30A, 12vdc for a couple of weeks now, the shower pan gaskets are holding up well. Ive ran 30 plus plates at 1/8th spacing and could see no other benifits other then if I was going to jack the voltage up. I'm back to 1/16th and loving it, never heats up at less then 35Amps. No sweat getting 5 to 6 L/Ms with just a whisp of steam, bubbler/dryer takes care of that.

Also: Got a really rich blue flame, then blew the crap out of bubbler ! lol

[Me102288]

@Davehho1 lol had same prob, I use a blow off top for me bubbler now, at about 30 psi it triggers a blow off valve with a rod that unlatch's the retainer clip. Seen one that used a spring to hold down the top... worked excellent.

[Davehho1]

Lutherp40 "(2 months ago) Where are you finding PVC gasket material?"

Ive been testing the 1/16th showerpan as gasket material, seems to hold up well after weeks of testing. I'm in the process of maxing my plate gap, I'll post up what max plate gap I come up with, I'm on 1/8 now (2, 1/16th gaskets)

[lutherp40]

I would be interested in seeing your results whenever you are ready to post them.

Plate spacing has a lot to do with how effient a call can be. Its just hard to keep reconfiguring your cell to try out every conceivable combination. :)

[David7900]

great stuff! I have switched to a 5 neutral design now too. I am loving it. I have not noticed a drop in production. and I am getting more consistent mmw's. But the great thing is that it does not seem to heat up nearly as fast! I have a new power supply coming and can't wait to see how many amps i can run in it before it gets to hot! right now I start out at 60 degrees F and after 1.5 hours at 9 amps it only goes up to 71 degrees.

I think that is good. went up one or two amps.

[David7900]

also after talking with d3 I am only doing mmw tests at a cold start up. so that i can take out the possibility of steam or thermal expansion of the hho. Though at 60 F it may be condensing it? i am not sure.

[lutherp40]

Think of it like this.

If water was not able to evaporate and be contained in air that is less than 32 degrees F, we would never have snow.

What that really says is that the gas produced at any temperature will contain at least some water vapor in it.

How much water vapor is the issue.

[lutherp40]

Very nice results!

I am glad something useful came out of this video. :)

[David7900]

I enjoy all your videos! Thank you.

[hhoguru232004]

could you tell me straight up how many liters per minute at 10-15 amps at peak temps. Also how hot does the cell get. I'm thinking of giving a few at christmas because there compact but I would like some date please send it to me if you have it thanks

[lutherp40]

At 10 to 15 amps your going to get about 0.8 to 1.0 LPM, but there are a myriad of variables that affect production and efficiency.

Anybody that promises you a particular rate either has all of the variables specifically defined for you or is trying to snow you. :)

Here I am just trying to figure out what you might expect to achieve expect under varying conditions.

YMWV.

[john29302]

uh...faraday made lots of charts...he didnt need a pwm. heat is generated due to decreased resistance. hho will not be generated after 1.35 volts (actually 1.65 volts) due to additional drop in plate drop, yes there is a slight drop there...all this itchin to use a pwm cuz you can jive (man wants to control) and pwm is the pathology. not a tool needed in efficient hho production. if you really want the king of efficiency (Tesla) roll over, just show him you produce heat in the design

[lutherp40]

The purpose of doing these charts is to figure out how "this" cell will perform under different conditions.

If you want to keep your head poked in the sand assuming everything that everybody else told you was true, be my guest.

The PWM is for "my" convenience so I can control voltages and currents being fed into the cell.

I don't know where you got the idea that adding a PWM will increase efficiencies. Not from me, that's for sure.

I have never seen a PWM increase MMW or LPM over DC.

[beginerhydro]

Good work are you doing a study on electrolyte counteraction's as well as time frames? just asking!

[lutherp40]

I hadn't considered it so far, but only because my current experience with the electrolyte solutions thus far have not indicated that there maybe a breakdown over time.

Perhaps I should counter with a question as to what you mean by "counteractions"?

[sovereignenergy]

Great data !! keep up the good work

[lutherp40]

Thank you for the kudos.

This boring testing part is what I believe a lot of people forget to do.

Most people only know how their cell will perform under one set of circumstances and get blind-sided when conditions change once the cell has been installed in a vehicle.

You need to know all its operating parameters, so you know what to avoid and what to strive for.

That is why I do this anyway. :)

[Energermany]

Nice work, nice Hardware.

Thanks for sharing.

[lutherp40]

You are most certainly welcome.

If I do not accomplish anything else from this video, Perhaps I can show people how they might test their own cells under a wide variation of conditions so they can identify the strong and weak points in their system designs.

[jdcmusicman]

Luther , user name kayleeasbey is using your video to premote the water for gas crap, just thought I'd let you know...

watch?v=p5FXqEMUlcg

[lutherp40]

Thank you very much for the heads up on that.

I just turned in a copyright infringement complaint on that remastered copy.

I can see I need to add watermarking to all of my posted videos from now on.

[guitarmasters33]

just would like to know......how much was the kit?

[lutherp40]

$249 plus shipping.

Not a bad price at all when you consider how much 316L stainless you get.

[RadGenH2O]

Good work Luther,

I personally like the 5n4 configuration just for the reasons you have stated. With 5n4 the heat rise is minimal 103f. Production drops a little, but the energy used is stable and not used to heat water.

I have just gone back to my homemade 40mil gaskets (down from .0625). At 40mil with 4n4 the reaction was too hot and hard to control, however at 5n4 it stablizes nicely.

If I can get some made in pvc I would like to try an even thinner gasket just to compare reactions.

[lutherp40]

Where are you finding PVC gasket material?

[RadGenH2O]

home depot sells pvc shower pan gasket material on rolls 60" wide by the foot

[lutherp40]

Thank you

[SmartScarecrow]

one other comment to answer one of your questions ... my understanding is that in the next run of product, we may put together an "expansion pack" of some sort or at the very least, offer folks individual plates and gaskets ... the first run we concentrated all of our availble resources on the kits ... now that we have built a little bit of a war chest, we will try to mix it up a bit to offer folks more choices ... stay tuned ... we are listening and hope to become known as a responsive vendor .

[lutherp40]

Let me know if they ever begin to offer any sort of expansion packs.

I really want to add more plates to my cell asap.

[SmartScarecrow]

very nice. thank you very much for taking the time to validate the capabilities of our device.

for a kit intended for anyone to "assemble it yourself", the numbers you are turning are outstanding. high 5's and low 6's for mmw right out of the box. wow.

we thought about a 5N config as we knew it would be more efficient and run cooler. but we were concerned that the lower production would turn some folks off. its a tough choice. 4N seemed a good compromise between production and efficiency.

[lutherp40]

I can understand. a 5N config would also be more costly.

I am looking at 2 primary concerns.

The need to get as much production out of the cell for least amount of watts so I do not need to be overly concerned with overtaxing an unmodified automotive charging system.

And probably more importantly, I am not prepared to address the cooling requirements of a 4N4 configuration that might be required for any long duration runs.

[superbee1970]

Hi Luther,

LOVE the data! You the MAN! DO YOU KNOW how many hours/days/weeks you've saved a LOTTA peop? !?! WOW!

I'd REALLY like to see your 6n5 configuration and data! Get the extra plates and JUST DO IT! To sustain the heat, you can use the exhaust heat to maintain it! Plenty a that hangin around, right? Even the ambient heat of the engine compartment could generate and maintain quite a bit of heat in your cell! I bet you could make a formula based on your cell data, ey? Thnx! Todd...

[lutherp40]

I probably need to do this test all over again now that I can push a continuous 40 amps or more though my cell and still keep 13.8VDC to 15VDC at the cell.

At least I should be able to replicate being installed in a vehicle better now than I could before.

[leakfree]

Very good work Luther. This is time consuming work but very important. Great data gathering. High 5's and 6's are extremely good mmw's. Onward!

[lutherp40]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[d3adp001]

nice work luther, now you have an idea of what i ahve been doing for months now. pages and pages of data logging. those results are very nice, 6.mmw is a very nice mmw. I can't think of any other cell hitting it. heck I have tested every other cell, so I kinda know :)

[lutherp40]

:)

I am of the opinion that one needs to know the limitations and strengths of their cell designs.

I mean, if you don't know where you've been, how can you tell if you are moving in the correct direction?

[shamansays]

If the stars are to rate "HHO video homework" you get a A+. Youve been at it all day!Take five, and reflect on the day.Nice work.

[lutherp40]

I appreciate that compliment. Thank you.

[higherpoweredh2o]

good approach to data collection. very organized. kepp it flowin.

good job

[lutherp40]

I appreciate that. Thank you.