Baiting the Masses - March for the Alternative

[joinusinsong]

NEXT ANTI CUTS PROTEST 30TH JUNE 11:30 LINCOLNS INN FIELDS TO PARLIAMENT SQ

[internetmale]

Old Holborn = a petulant child, and one who bases his entire image on the flashy hollywood adaption of a work by a man who genuinely despises his ilk.

[SirOllyCromwell]

@cactustactics I disagree, he got a pretty decent reaction there, but we got a mmuch better reaction when we hung the banner from the bridge above the start point. Nt a good reaction but it was HUGE.

[cactustactics]

@SirOllyCromwell Then why not post video of this 'huge reaction'? All we have here is shots of a guy stood on a bridge while a march passes by below, from the noise it doesn't even sound like anyone's noticed him. Hell even the bored-looking spectators on the bridge are barely acknowledging him.

This video makes it look like nothing's happening, is what I'm saying. Nice hat though

[cactustactics]

(not shown: nobody paying attention to him)

[1stmissingsnowman]

Simply awesome :-D

[m1aws]

Anonymous says:

April 1, 2011 at 10:31 am

Biggest laugh of the morning was thanks to a piece about benefit cuts on R4 Today. Without a trace of irony an illiterate single mum on welfare moaned about the miniscule reduction in her £500 benefits by stating :” No one gives me nuffink”.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@UAFNAZIDESTROYER

Tit.

[hals0001]

This is ironic. So you want to go for Anarcho-Capitalism (black and yellow flag) as opposed to the rioters at the weekend Anarcho_comunism (red and black flag). The reasoning being no taxes = no government & then pay privately for: * Education  * Fire service * Health care * Military * Police service * Public transportation * Social housing * Town planning * Waste management * Social services

[TheEnglishViking1]

@hals0001

Paying privately for these things privately would cost a shit load less than it already does.

I assume you don't have a job?

[hals0001]

I have a well paid Private sector job. Having worked previously in the NHS as a haematologist I can assure you of the high standards of care and dedication of service provided by the overwhelming majority of NHS workers. It is those who wipe the bottoms of the sick and dying that deserve respect. The private sector are paid billions of pounds to fund medical supplies and back office support. NHS managers will be looking to make savings here. Private healthcare is more expensive.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@hals0001,

I have never spoken against the 'real workers' in the public sector, although a lot, just like you, seem to think that they are immune from criticism, because they work in health-care.

The reason the private sector rip-off the NHS is because it is a closed market. Open it to competition, and watch the prices fall.

Private health-care is demonstrably cheaper than the NHS, unless you're a tramp, heroin-addict or an alcoholic.

[EllieeBearr]

@TheEnglishViking LOL. OMFG. -.- Im not a fucking 'troll' I dont give two shits about Politics. Now, if you dont mind (: stfu & gtfo.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@EllieeBearr ,

Oooh, such a witty and convincing argument.

[Morrakiu]

win

[EllieeBearr]

@TheEnglishViking Im not getthevolvoval. I have NOTHING to do with this what so ever. So, could you please stop talking about me? My Dad went on to youtube, and I forgot to sign out, so it looked like it was me. Simple. 

[TheEnglishViking1]

@EllieeBearr ,

Funny he says EXACTLY the same things, word for word, as you.

[An0nEeMouse]

Five people love slavery.

[TheEnglishViking1]

BTW,

Readers may wish to know that @Ellieebearr and GetTheVolvoVal are the same person/Labour troll.

I know because he/she was stupid enough to reply to one of my comments, with the exact same comment, using the 2 different tags. He/she has now set about deleting the evidence, as you can see from the missing comments below.

Typical Socialist - when they can't win the argument (they never can), why not just resort to deception?

DOH!

[garymichaelsmith]

@GetTheVolvoVal If you are looking for real non-jobs then have a look at the Guardian jobs pages. Examples such as "Real Nappy Co-ordinators", "Equal Opportunities Officer", ad infinitum.

I have no idea what percentage of goverment spending they account for but even one pound is too much. If something is pointless, being cheap does not make it worthwhile.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@garymichaelsmith

But spending on such jobs is bringing the country to it's knees isn't it? As an expert on the subject keen to hold forth on internet forums, you must have some figures to hand, surely!

I mean if you can't produce the figures it's going to look like you're talking out of your arse, and you wouldn't want that.

[m1aws]

Good Old Holby.

Parasitic scum want to steal off those who work and directly contribute to the Nation. This includes the Gov't and the useless eaters.

DON'T FEED THE ANIMALS!

The trouble with the scum on the ground level are the fact there were two factions. Destructive anarchists who want no Gov't, no businesses and don't understand reality/money and the lefties who want the Government to own everything; the ultimate "I own you".

Own me and I will cease to be economically viable too. F*ck'um!

[garymichaelsmith]

@EllieeBearr. I guess you are still at school though; your spelling is poor and your political views are clearly crafted by years of teachers forcing socialist views down your throat. If one day you have a productive job you will realise that over-taxation is wrong...especially when said tax take is wasted on Guardianista nonsense.

[EllieeBearr]

Erm. That wasnt actually me? (: my Dad was on my account by accident becuase i didnt logg out. I really couldent give a shit about all this 'politics' to be honest with you.. and I find it funny that you actually did think you were talking to a 15 year old. get a life? :)

[nz2k2]

@EllieeBearr

1: Neither of your statements require a question mark.

2: A sentence starts with a capital letter.

3: It's "couldn't" not "couldent" and log not logg.

And I mean this quite seriously: If you really are 15, and if @GetTheVolvoVal is your father, then I have to say the cuts are the least of your problems. You need some serious remedial work on your education. Your father should be there to help and support you, not arsing about in Youtube.

Shame on you both.

[favfly]

Excellent :-D

[kalross73]

He's on his own!

[njw3000]

ooh look, someone with more money than sense who has latched onto the self-serving ideology of "fibertarianism" - thus named because it's predicated on lies about the welfare state and the true nature of taxation.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@EllieeBearr ,

I guess he could just pay for his medical treatment, instead of expecting other people to pay for it, or getting self-righteous about it?

[TheEnglishViking1]

@EllieeBearr,

Shame about all the other people who don't though, eh? If you wish to finance everybody else's healthcare, that's fine. Just don't expect others to be compelled to do so.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

But it is the fairest way of ensuring that everyone receives comprehensive health care.

Unfortunately for you it's also extremely popular with the British people and democratically enshrined in law.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal

In what way is forcing people to pay for others fair?

Unfortunately for you, it looks like you'll be needing the psychiatric services of the NHS, if you think we live in a Democracy.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

Define what you mean by "fair".

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal

Either learn the language or get a dictionary.

I guess another definition is 'Stop pretending to be @EllieeBearr' and bigging yourself up, noob.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

Words mean different things to different people.

I know what I mean by "fair", but don't understand your use of the word in this context.

What do *you* mean by the word "fair"?

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal ,

Fair means; just, righteous, correct. Free from bias or injustice. Legitimate, not dishonest.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

OK. Given that taxation is ideally paid in accordance with the law of the land by all citizens, commensurate with their means, in order to provide universal benefits to all members of society according to need (such as health care), in what way can it be described as unjust, wicked, incorrect, biased, illegitimate or dishonest?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal

War is good?

Debt slavery is good?

Taking moneys to pay for things that is not an investment to the taxpayer is good?

The EU bill with only half the grant money returned is good?

The £2.9Bn "global warming" CO2 tax which matches the money students will pay for is good?

They do not serve us the people.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

Of course we can disagree about what we spend our money on, but just because a man spends some of his cash on cigarettes isn't an argument for stopping his wages and letting his kids starve.

There are many good, useful and essential uses of tax revenues.

I am a public servant and my overriding concern at work is the benefit of the people I serve.

Tell me, how would the sick be catered for in your taxless utopia - or do you not see that as your problem?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal There is no taxless utopia. The trouble with setting a price via taxation also makes many big companies gain easy profits.

There are few, if any efficient Gov't businesses. Even if they have a trading registration.

I was "there" with Nationalised industries. The Gov't turned nearly all of them into basket cases. My Dad was a big honcho running one. They stole all profits as tax. Forced over employment, under invested and let Marxist political ideals wreck them totally.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

Of course there is no taxless utopia, but you are arguing against the principle of taxation. How would the sick be catered for in a tax-free society?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal How could I argue such after what I said. Should it be a Gov't based taxation? nah!

But if you base GDP and taxation from the value of health care. Britain is an arse. It could save trillions educating people into understanding their medical needs and making their own purchases so saving a taxation fortune. Same with many things, like law! We as a people have little faith in the Police now. Because it's nothing more than a private army.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

But the UK spends comparatively little on health care - still less than OECD average (and half that of the private US health care system) despite a doubling of funding in the last 10 years.

You are advocating a free market in health care - and markets distribute goods according to wealth, so the rich will receive an abundance of expensive quality treatments and tests (whether they need them or not), and the poor will receive bugger all and will be left to suffer and die.

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal I have stopped working. I have a pension. I also invested my money where Gov't robbery will not affect me. My lifetimes NIC payments are complete. Those NIC payments do not reflect the true cost of the NHS which is the Gov'ts single biggest expenditure.

In the past decade the latter Gov't invented millions of NHS jobs. Are we better off? No.

We cannot afford. Even old ppl are opiated to death to save money.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

All very interesting I'm sure, but I'm confused as to your position. *Are* you opposed to taxation on principle, or not? If you are opposed, then how does the society you envisage guarantee comprehensive universal health care for all and not just the well-off?

You are wrong. The NHS has improved dramatically in recent years, despite our continued *low* spending on health.

Just out of interest, what were these "millions of NHS jobs" invented by the government? Give me some examples.

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal I'm not opposed to taxation perse' but I am against the method of collection and implementation.

NHS "managers" did not exist in the slightest back in the '50's. Never mind all the sub-professional part jobs. I thought computers would wipe out buying, stocks and wages jobs. I've flown with top managers who junket themselves together into being clever (plaguerise). Therefore one can do them all.

Look on a dating site at womens job's. They were deemed not needed then, why now?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

So you don't agree with Old Holborn that taxation=slavery, then?

Hmm. The NHS in the 1950s was a far more purely "socialist" system than that now. The NHS as it was originally founded hardly needed managers, it ran itself and clinical staff were in the driving seat.

The vast expansion in managers occured due to the marketising reforms under the Tories and New Labour (Tory Lite). If you create a market you need people to manage contracts, accounts, billing, marketing and invoicing.

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal Actually "welfare" started in the USA.

The torys cynically thought if every one went to work it circulated money faster creating more apparent wealth. Apparent wealth is basically creating debt which we could afford from abundant gas and oil. Free energy without paying miners.

Labour made it worse. Just add foreigners who seek that same bed to lie in that spoilt our people. and more diversity co-ordidators are needed.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

Are you saying that you *can't* tell me what these "millions of jobs" are that the government created in the NHS and why they are a waste of money?

Do you, or do you not disagree with Old Holborn that taxes=slavery?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal Not sure why you want me to run through the ignominious listings of thousands of invented job types. Why do you keep expecting merely the NHS?

Acceptance of taxation without alllowing a personal alternative is a form of slavery. Filling in your census, forcibly is a slavery. Acceptance of thought crime is a slavery. speeding is a slavery because nobody was hurt. hurting someone should make that person fully culpable not the thought it could happen.

Its all so Mafios.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

"Not sure why you want me to run through the ignominious listings of thousands of invented job types."

Because you claimed *millions* existed. In reality you have no idea - you made it up. "Why do you keep expecting merely the NHS?"

Because it is something I understand, and the provision of health care is of supreme importance.

"Acceptance of taxation without alllowing a personal alternative is a form of slavery"

How is healthcare to be provided fairly without taxation?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal If I sent a full boring list, you will attempt to pick one to debunk. Do it yourself.

Just the other day a bunch of Asian thugs were sent to Blackpool on the taxpayers expense to keep them away from an EDL protest march. Most ended up in prison. Nearly killed a man they were racially abused there. Total cost? over £1.5M.

You need to get out and realise an inefficient state machine is one that costs YOU your personal wealth, not creates it.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal

At that time I read a letter in the paper from a woman whose daughter worked in a junior admin role at the NHS. She had no work to do, and was so bored she left the job, telling her boss why and that there was no need to replace her, as there was no work. The boss insisted on replacing her.

Do you really believe that pattern is not repeated through the whole public sector?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

It was in the paper (which one I wonder?) - it must be true!!

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal Errrrmmmmm so you seriously doubt it? Despite the fact that you have no reason to doubt, and the woman has no reason to lie? Despite the fact that this is people's experience of government service all over the world? Despite the fit witht he experience of my friend, who certainly had no reason to lie and is a bug supporter of nationalised healthcare?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

Might be true, might not be. If true, how representative is it of the service as a whole? We don't know, because it's an anecdote. The fact that you don't understand the limitations of anecdote as evidence for a given proposition speaks volumes.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"Do you really believe that pattern is not repeated through the whole public sector?"

I can only speak about the NHS.

It's administrative costs are far less than private systems due to their enormous transaction costs (writing and monitoring contracts, marketing and advertising services, paying for capital, insurance, invoicing and accounting).

As I've now stated more than once - the NHS is cheap and costs less than the OECD average.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal I had a friend who was an accountant (and a socialist). Having been self-employed working for small traders, and worked for large businesses she had a job at an NHS trust, one of six accountants in an office. She estimated that a private business would have employed one, maybe two accountants for that office. So the NHS was employing roughly 4 times the accountants it needed. Not the odd extra one, not cheap office admin, but in that ofice alone 4 entirely redundant accountants.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"I had a friend who was an accountant...."

A second hand anecdote, not the best form of evidence on which to base an opinion.

Presumably if I were to inform you that a relative had told me that they had experienced exemplary care from the NHS, you would suddenly abandon your current views and become a socialist.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal No, becaus we that does nothing to prove that the care was efficiently provided, and nothing to change the fact that I am forced to pay for a service I cannot possibly use in most cases. Oh, and I earn below average pay; I earned even less last time I was forced to pay for private care. At least I have evidence, and it is reliable. You have none, you cannot show that the NHS provides services efficiently. Since you are expecting me to pay, the burden of proof is on you.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"you cannot show that the NHS provides services efficiently"

Lower than average costs compared to other rich countries.

Best end of life care (Economist Intelligence Unit)

Best outcomes for heart surgery in Europe (European Society of Cardiothoracic Surgery)

Highest public satisfaction since records began (British Social Attitudes Survey)

Largest fall in death rates from heart attacks in Europe between 1980 and 2006 - will be lower than France by 2012 (Kings Fund)... cont'd.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"you cannot show that the NHS provides services efficiently" ..cont'd.

Cancer survival rates in the UK are improving faster than in any other country in Europe (Cancer Research UK)

NHS scored very highly in equity, ease of access and efficiency, and found that people in the UK were the most satisfied with their health care of the 11 countries studied (Commonwealth Fund).

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal "Cancer survival rates in the UK are improving faster than in any other country" That's because they are some of the lowest in the developed world.  I don't want end-of-life care, I want a long life. I don't want heart surgery; heart disease is largely a matter of lifestyle, and mine is good and I already have my heart checked regularly. Public satisfaction is a matter of propaganda. Terrible rates of in-hospital infection.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"That's because they are some of the lowest in the developed world"

No. Some of them were poorer than average, some were better. Not surprising when you consider the chronic levels of underfunding until very recently (estimated at a cumulative underspend around £ 800 billion between the 70s and 90s compared to European average by the Wanless Report). With increased levels of funding the NHS 's performance has improved dramatically.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal Balls. Across the board cancer survival rates are low. If there is underfunding then why employ so many extra admin staff and accountants? Most importantly why won't you even address the main point - my freedom to choose, and my having to pay taxes for something I cannot use, so I am forced to pay twice. You have to right to decide what I should spend my money on, it is unjust and illiberal. Government shoukld stick to a small core of activity that can only be achieved that way.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"Across the board cancer survival rates are low" Why have you ignored the evidence I have presented showing this not to be the case?

Why can't you use the NHS?

"why won't you even address the main point - my freedom to choose" You have the freedoom to go private, but without funding of universal health care from general taxation you condemn millions to misery and bankruptcy.

Now that is *real* injustice.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

"If there is underfunding then why employ so many extra admin staff and accountants"

But you haven't presented a shred of evidence that there *are* too many extra admin staff, other than a second hand anecdote.

Personally, I feel that the NHS could reduce it's admin burden by getting rid of the internal market and purchaser provider split, which led directly to the huge increases in management. But that would mean a more socialist not less socialist system.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp "I don't want end-of-life care,"

So you don't think that it's important for people to be able to die peacefully, with a minimum of suffering in the place of their choice? Would you not want this for yourself or loved ones when the (hopefully long way off) time comes?

It is something which is quite difficult to achieve, requiring continuity, communication and integration of services - nevertheless the NHS excells in this area.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp "Public satisfaction is a matter of propaganda"

How so? I would have thought it was one of the truest measures of the overall quality of services.

"Terrible rates of in-hospital infection."

Due to the outsourcing of cleaning services by the Tories. To increase profits private firms cut staffing levels resulting in a deterioration in the service. This is not an argument for privatisation.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal to continue ... Lower than average costs, and terrible service. I don't want any cost for a service so terrible I cannot possibly afford to use it! In most cases I have to pay. In the case of dental I use NHS, but I had to delay treatment for 5 years as I coul not get an NHS dentist. I lost two teeth to that, and had to have extra treatment elsewhere. And that is the best side ofthe NHS for me! So why should I pay for things you want the NHS to give? It should be my choice

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

Don't blame the NHS model - blame the Tories. They made the political ideological decision in the late 80s to stop funding dental work and so the numbers of dentists contracted to the NHS shrank dramatically. With adequate funding of NHS dentistry you'd have got your treatment in a timely fashion, free at the point of use.

[randomxnp]

@m1aws If everyone goes to work in the private sector then real wealth is created. If they were not creating value no-one woul pay them. It is workers in the govenrment who often create apparent rather than real wealth. Very basic economics (and the basis of one of the fundamental flaws of communism; Karl Marx missed it entirely, which is largely why his philosophy makes no sense).

[m1aws]

@randomxnp Correct! you have hit the nail on the head and driven it right home perfectly.

At this minute, 53% of the British working population derives their income from the state.

MARCH 31ST, 2011 Rally Against Debt "order-order. com". just been reading the fascinating responses.

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal What is the government doing involved in the provision of healthcare at all?

[m1aws]

@randomxnp Nothing to fix it. By design. Wet Dave is a Marxist. He's hell bent on dissolving this nation. Throwing away billions on other nations to serve his Fabian/Bilderburg cause.

Volv. I bet you know many ways the NHS could be more efficient.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp

What is the alternative?

[randomxnp]

@GetTheVolvoVal The alternative was to leave healthcare alone, provided by private concerns. Now, far more difficut; that is the only success of socialists, to make it hard to undo the damage they cause. Privatisation is the obvious course, but not only is that itself a tricky prospect but the arogant, freedom-hating unions will do everything to make it more painful, regardless of the interest of patients. So what is your alternative to a system that has failed, and forces people to pay twice?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@randomxnp "The alternative was to leave healthcare alone, provided by private concerns"

But health care in a free market, as I've already stated, is distributed unfairly. Markets follow the money and the rich get lots of care whether they actually need it or not, and the poor get crap. See the USA, whose system costs twice as much as ours, where a quarter of the population are completely uncovered, and most of those who *are* covered live in fear that the insurance company won't pay up.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal ,

You use the word 'ideally' in your premise, because your premise does not fit with the reality we experience.

Tax is not collected commensurate to means, it's collected by force, with threats of imprisonment, house repossessions, fines, etc.

Tax is not paid by all 'citizens' (we're 'subjects' in the UK, but never mind). EVERY single person in the public sector pays not one penny of tax. How can they, they are ENTIRELY funded from the taxes of the private sector?

Unjust.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

"Tax is not collected commensurate to means, it's collected by force, with threats of imprisonment, house repossessions, fines, etc."

A non-sequitor. The *amount* of tax levied (according to a person's means) is completely unrelated to the *sanctions* imposed for not paying that tax.

And of course there *are* sanctions since to not pay your tax is to break the law.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal,

I can see the taxes I paid for your education were wasted. It's non sequitUr, and my statement wasn't one anyway. Just argue your point, without trying to be seem clever, because it's not working.

I would say you are looking at the argument the wrong way around. The punishments inflicted by the state for non-payment of tax are totally unrelated to the person's ability to pay. Just like the Mafia.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

"Tax is not paid by all 'citizens' (we're 'subjects' in the UK, but never mind). EVERY single person in the public sector pays not one penny of tax. How can they, they are ENTIRELY funded from the taxes of the private sector?

Unjust."

Funny.

So taxation is unjust because it goes to fund the public sector which you disapprove of because it is funded by tax?

Are you familiar with the term "circular argument"?

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal,

No, taxation is unjust when the persons producing the wealth (exclusively the private sector) have a large portion stolen from them, by threat of force, to fund others who do not create wealth. In many of these case, but no means all, the public sector do very little real work for a great deal more pay and pension rights.

As I said, unjust.

I guess when you've paid enough tax to have bought your own house three times over, but still have a mortgage, you'll understand.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

It depends what you mean by "wealth".

Isn't the knoweldge that you will receive care and support when you are in need of it a kind of wealth?

To speak to you in a language you understand : It's in the interests of a businessman for his employees to receive universal free at the point of use health care, otherwise to keep them healthy and productive he would have to fork out for expensive private healthcare premiums, thus damaging his profits.

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal ,

Free at the point of use? It's the bit that comes before that that costs all the money.

An employer not only has to cover the cost of business, but also his employees. He pays their wages, taxes and NI. Then he pays the Employer's NI contribution.

I suggest to you that the Employer's NI contribution is considerably higher than a monthly DD to Bupa.

If you want things to cost far more than they are worth and be super ineffective, nationalise them.

If not, privatise them.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

But the NHS is cheap.

Less than OECD average spending (private and public) on health as % of GDP: UK 8.7 % (was c 6% in 1997), France 11.2%, Germany 10.5%, Switzerland 10.7%, US 16 %.

"If you want things to cost far more than they are worth and be super ineffective, nationalise them.

If not, privatise them"

Like the railways you mean? Now hugely more costly to run, astronomical fares, hideously complex labyrinthine ticketing system, and appalling safety record.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@TheEnglishViking1

Bupa would cost the employer more than NI. The NHS pools the risk of very sick, complex, and expensive patients and spreads it throughout the entire population. Insurance co has a much smaller risk pool, plus the need to make profits, advertise etc. Therefore much more costly.

Plus BUPA refuse to cover people with a massive range of pre-existing conditions including *any* chronic disease, and do not cover emergencies or accidents. Not profitable, see?

[TheEnglishViking1]

@GetTheVolvoVal

See the reply at the top of the page, I don't know why it isn't here.

[lcpdesign]

A real anarchist! Shame the BBC didn't interview HIM!

[garymichaelsmith]

Well done. Good effort but I think your message should have been clearer. A picture paints a thoasand words so a few "Diversity Outreach Co-ordinators" swinging from nooses next to your sign would have done the trick.

[nz2k2]

@EllieeBearr Then your spelling must be very poor. I'm on results page 3 of jobs and positions before I get to the bloggers talking about it. In fact, one advert currently in Guardian jobs mentioned that the applicant must "facilitate diversity workshops"/

Unless... perhaps you're one of those people who like to pretend positions like this don't exist? Like some people like to pretend SureStart didn't ban Baa Baa Black Sheep in 2004 or Birmingham Council never celebrated "Winterval"?

Oh dear.

[garymichaelsmith]

@EllieeBearr I think most people would have realised that I was not being specific in talking about "Diversity Outreach Co-ordinators" rather the whole raft of non-jobs that were created under the last government. They add no value to the state as a whole yet cost tax payers more of their hard earned money. Such non-jobs, loved by Guardianistas, are one of the legacies of a profligate Labour regime. Their other legacy is a huge national debt and deficit.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@garymichaelsmith

So your evidence for the existence of various non-jobs is to invent a straw man non-job which doesn't actually exist?

Please, could you cite, then, a few examples of *real* non-jobs, explain why they are non-jobs, and then tell me what % of tax-payers money is spent on them as opposed to that spent on proper jobs.

[garymichaelsmith]

@EllieeBearr Right minded and economically competent people realise that cutting the deficit is critical. If it is not tackled then hello IMF bailout. We cannot deny the deficit (unless you're Ed Balls) nor can we fail to act. We simply cannot borrow our way out of debt. Cuts are needed if the country is ever to have a chance to grow. Money is best left in peoples' pockets not given to the state to fritter away on non-essential services.

[garymichaelsmith]

@EllieeBearr From your shrill responces I guess you are firmly on the left and as such cannot see that socialism always leads to financail ruin. I am no BNP fan and you will also find they are actually a party of the left. Look at their policies and you will see plenty of left-wing ideas. Afterall, the Nazis were socialists.

Massive fail on your thinking and dogmatic Brownian view.

Maybe you will be able to argue when you pass your student politics days.

[nz2k2]

@garymichaelsmith I see that @EllieeBearr has removed all her comments.

Doesn't sound like she liked arguing with grown-ups. But bless the little poppet for trying, well done her.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@nz2k2

But from my perpective you didn't respond to any of her points..

I don't know. Outwitted by a lass with Bieber fever!

[nz2k2]

@GetTheVolvoVal

"Outwitted" by someone who removes all their comments as soon as they are proven to be without foundation?

Incidentally, youtube tells me you joined about 5 minutes before posting this.

Of course, the two wouldn't be linked now, would they?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@nz2k2

Yes they are. She removed them because I had unwittingly used her account and she understandably didn't want the comments on there.

Now, could you tell me which comments of *mine* were without foundation?

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@garymichaelsmith

You're "no fan of the BNP". And yet your pal nz2k2 is more than happy to promulgate the same lazy myths about nursery rhymes and "winterval" as peddled by those fascists in their attempts to whip up ill-feeling towards minorities.

Funny that.

Oh, and you spelt "financial" wrong. You'll have that nz2k2 on your case if you don't watch it - or is it just young girls about whom he knows nothing that he feels free to insult on the internet?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal

What do you do for a living. Engineer. Architect, Manufacturer, business owner?

I want to know if your efforts have contributed to the taxpaying public in any way.

p.s.

Why do you repeat ad-verbatim every Fabian line? Is it because you think it makes you right or is it working on you? "happy to promulgate", "same lazy myths", "peddled by those fascists", "attempts to whip up ill-feeling towards minorities".

You are obviously a stuck record. Try attacking the person instead.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

My occupation is "feckless dole-scum".

Happy?

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal awww, thats so sad :(

Your Labour Fabian friends will call you to task in a few years and ask what you have done to contribute to society. If you haven't, they will introduce you to a friendly gas that will end your life.

/watch?v=WgpaKkrZex4

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

Nah, only joking. I'm not really on the Lemon Sole.

I was just keen to get your reaction - I predicted a sneering, smug, satisfaction - I was spot on!

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal I felt complete pity for you. I suggest you re-read it.

Obviously you are blinded by a veil of sneering expectation and bigotry.

The Labour party re-introduced doctors rights to over prescribe opiates to old people in homes so they die of "dehydration" and "won't eat" and families are told they died by natural causes. Same with chopping up and storing dead babies... They removed our law of Habeus Corpus.

So yes, expect "big society" to assess the value of your life.

[GetTheVolvoVal]

@m1aws

I'm sorry - got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

You just sounded really, really, sarcastic.

[m1aws]

@GetTheVolvoVal No worries my good man. Your back will be against the wall here, Expecting to be attacked by the "far right". A lot of my friends have their hearts on the left like I used to.

Then we found out who the "left" really were and what they stood for. :(

[nz2k2]

@EllieeBearr

1: You directed me to a website which backed up everything I said, proving that both winterval and baa baa black sheep weren't a myth.

2: Who was "spouting fascist propaganda designed to demonize ethnic minorities"?

Do you even know what fascist means? Let's check your profile:

Heyy i'm Ellie I live for the colour purple, and im scared of the noise the bathtub makes when it drains,

i want to be an artist when im older, and.. I LOVE JUSTIN BIEBER

Occupation:.justin bieber.

[nz2k2]

@EllieeBearr Keep on digging. Wrong AGAIN! Check my profile for the video titled "baa baa black sheep cotton vs wool" in which I play a clip, recorded from Radio 4, of an interview, in which Elena O'Connel from SureStart says:

"One of the parents voiced her concern over the song baa baa black sheep, referring to the slave trade which was cotton picking in Virginia years ago, and it's derogatory to some families, so we don't sing it now".

Now, you were saying?

[ManlytearsUK]

Only faggots and little kids wear these masks.

[dotdavid]

Excellent

[HexReinette]

Never mind what he's saying, he must have balls of steel XD

[ThePandaDiscoParty]

haha i saw him catch the tube :P

[ImEuanAndIGotsSkeelz]

goes to show the stupidity of the average protester here that he didnt get jumped as im sure they didnt fully understand his message

[THRIPS101]

@ImEuanAndIGotsSkeelz

Yes, because attacking people always demonstrates that you're right. Fists and boots are the best rhetorical tools.

[express375]

They are cutting and not lowering taxes.It's all to keep the great banking ponzi scheme going.

I'm all for any protest at the moment.

[mwangolatrue]

Way to show the Welfare Queen we mean business !