sin is anything that hurts us that's why God hates sin because he loves us. Our free will is because we are not robots we can choose to fellow him or not..Fellowing him is much better. if we did not use our free will we wil not learn. we do not go to hell because we use our free will we go there because we choose not to be apart of Gods plan..his plan is best for us. Once we except Christ we can never be damned for what we do..we learn from our mistakes and soldier on.
You're certainly a patient one. Did you ever stop to consider that the reason he gave us freewill was because there is a maximum capacity in heaven as ordained by the fire dept.? (Interesting analogy) FIRE dept. haha. Here is my question for you...How is your child going to be brought up? Free to choose? Exposed to both sides without favoring one or the other?
az- Man didn't know God's will while in the garden? God didn't tell them?
Gen.2:16,17 "And Elohim COMMANDED the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: BUT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE."
Well we can see that aleast Adam KNEW the will of God. I wonder if Eve was informed not to eat of that same tree after she was created? cont.
Gen.3:2,3 " And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, Elohim hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."
Well here it doesn't say how she KNEW not to eat from the tree, whether God personally told her as he did Adam or if Adam informed her of the COMMAND not to eat the fruit of that tree, BUT she defintely KNEW that was God's COMMAND.
In the beginning, God gave us a choice to either love him or not, and he did that by giving us free will. He gave Adam and Eve one rule in the beginning; Don't eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. That was mankind choosing sin over God. However, it's not so much HIM punishing US as it is US punishing OURSELVES. Think about it. Being deprived from God is the biggest punishment of all. We chose not to obey him, and therefore we reject him. That is my understanding of it.
God made a New Covenant with Christian believers through the blood of Christ (Luke 22:20).
Those who choose to love and obey God and His Son have their sins forgiven and will not only be blessed in this life, but also receive eternal life (Luke 18:28-30).
They will become the children of God (John 1:12-13).
Those who refuse to accept and believe in Jesus will be condemned (John 3:18).
the high priest who condemned Jesus. Just recently it appears the most spectacular of all archaeological finds relating to Jesus has surfaced.
Another ossuary has come to light, this one bearing the names of Jesus, James and Joseph, three of the most prominent people in the New Testament. The ancient Aramaic words inscribed on the limestone box state that it belonged to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." ...
In late October Andre' Lemaire, a specialist in ancient inscriptions and professor at the Sorbonne in Paris, announced the discovery of the stone container with the extraordinary script. An Israeli collector, Oded Golan, had purchased the box from an Arab antiquities dealer more than a decade ago. Mr. Golan had not thought the artifact important until Professor Lemaire examined it. In fact, although Mr. Golan had read the inscription, he hadn't connected it with the biblical Jesus. ...
The dealer told Mr. Golan that the box had come from a burial site in southern Jerusalem where a bulldozer had accidentally uncovered a site containing tombs and bone boxes dating to the time of Jesus and James.
Before the announcement of the discovery, the limestone box was subjected to rigorous scientific tests to rule out the possibility. A team of experts from the Geological Survey of Israel examined the box and the inscription under a microscope and found no evidence of ...
...modern tools or tampering. Like the rest of the box, the inscription, though wiped clean in parts, has a thin sheen of particulate matter formed on it called a patina. This particular patina shows that it developed in a cave environment and that it is consistent with an age of 2,000 years.
By its very nature the artifact can be dated to within a few decades. Such bone boxes were in use from about 20 B.C. to A.D. 70, when according to Jewish custom the dead were first sealed in caves ...
... or rock-cut tombs, then their bones later transferred to a limestone bone box after the body had decayed.
Professor Lemaire further narrowed the dating by verifying that the inscription was in a cursive style used only in the few decades before A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Thus the inscription fits the style used around A.D. 62, when James, Jesus' half brother, died.
Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review, which announced the discovery, ...
... explained that the inscription was reviewed by Joseph Fitzmyer, one of the world's foremost experts on first-century Aramaic and a preeminent Dead Sea Scrolls editor. Professor Fitzmyer was at first troubled by the spelling of the word for brother, because it was a plural form used centuries later. But further research yielded the same form in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls and on another first-century ossuary. "I stand corrected," Professor Fitzmyer said. ...
A putative forger would have to know Aramaic better than Professor Fitzmyer, which seems rather unlikely. "To my mind," wrote Mr. Shanks, "this is one of the strongest arguments for the authenticity of the James inscription" (Biblical Archaeology Review, November-December 2002, p. 33).
"It seems very probable," Professor Lemaire concludes, "that this is the ossuary of the James in the New Testament".
Although the evidence so far points to the listing of Jesus, James and Joseph on the newfound ossuary as being the same persons mentioned in the New Testament, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty. Perhaps testing methods yet to be developed will be carried out that can further confirm the find.
In the meantime, the find nevertheless appears to be powerful evidence for the accuracy of the Gospel accounts and the literal existence of Jesus of Nazareth, ...
And by no means is this find unique; the existence of many biblical figures has been proven by archaeological finds. So far biblical names that have been positively confirmed include Herod the Great, Herod Agrippa, Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, David, many of the kings of Judah and Israel, and even Jeremiah's scribe, Baruch.
Re: ossuary. I recently got into a pretty bloody argument with an atheist who declared that Jesus was a mystical being whose crucifixion may've been 100s of years before the writing of the Gospels. I believe Jesus was a run-of-the-mill cult leader who got himself killed. IT ACTUALLY HELPS MY CASE if you prove he exists! The James Ossuary, however, is NOT the way to do it. Check Wikipedia - most of the assertions are lies.
"Many Biblical characters have been proven to actually exist"
So what? First off let's leave David off the list, I'm NOT going to accept that ONE piece of pottery that MAYBE mentions a HOUSE of David proves the existence of a legendary king who killed a giant and commanded 1.5 million soldiers!
2nd) This is HA1 again! Finding historical figures or places in a myth, doesn't mean the myth is real! There are MANY historical figures in the Iliad - does that mean Ares and Aphrodites exist?
Are we at the "Bury them in BS" part of the debate where the Christian cuts and pastes WHOLE books and websites into response boxes? Count me out - I don't have time to debate the world!
"Finding historical figures or places in a myth, doesn't mean the myth is real!"
You choose to ignore the fact that most of the people, cities, nations and empires mentioned in the Bible were relegated to mythical status during the "Enlightenment age". Archaeological discoveries KEEP PROVING the biblical accounts were true.
You cannot say the findings are wrong because they contradict YOUR BIASED OPINIONS. ...
@MidnightHustler75 Archaeology also keeps proving other, older stories have truth to them as well. The earth isn't a mere six thousand years old, you know.
To claim that these 40 writers all lied and made up the stories is your vain attempt to discredit people who have never been proven wrong or in error.
Historical and Roman records confirmed the existence of Jesus, His miracles and His death on the Passover. Claiming the historical sources cannot be trusted is yet another vain attempt on your part to discredit anything that proves you wrong. ...
Zeus, Odin and other fictitious gods do not have the mountain of evidence that the Bible has supporting the biblical accounts. To deliberately ignore it all and lumping God with YOUR imaginary leprechauns shows your dishonesty and the extent you will go to conceal your foolish ignorant ideas.
I'm not wasting anymore time on a deceitful, hypocritical liar like you.
"History and archaeology have proven the Bible to be consistently accurate."
I've shown you over and over how it doesn't and you keep asserting the same incorrect statement over and over. Guess what I can do that for Leprechauns too!
"History and archaeology and and biology have PROVEN the HOLY SHAMROCK to be consistently accurate!" There - an incorrect yet passionate assertion JUST like you! Oh and if you bring up evidence contrary to that assertion I'll just drown you in excuses!
Among the challenges to Christianity was the charge that Jews had rejected Jesus and that no Jewish leaders or scholars ever accepted Jesus as the Messiah. But even one of the most revered Jewish texts, the Talmud, a collection of rabbinical writings from 100 B.C. to A.D. 500, suggests otherwise.
In the second century A.D., Rabbi Judah Ha Nasi (A.D. 135-200) purged the Mishnah, part of the Talmud, of many references to Christianity and those who adhered to it. ...
In his classic work, The History of the Talmud, Jewish Talmudic scholar Michael L. Rodkinson wrote: "There were passages in the Mishnayoth concerning Jesus and his teaching...the Messianists...(were) many and considerable persons and in close alliance with their colleagues the Pharisees during the (first) two centuries." ...
Those words from the Mishnah appear to correspond to New Testament accounts that many Jews, including Pharisees and "a great company of priests were obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7).
The Talmud mentions that the Romans hanged Jesus from a tree, while in another text section the Talmud does something done nowhere else but the New Testament -- mentions Jesus' birth.
(Note that "hanged" here means "hanged on a cross " - crucified.) ...
English scholar R. Travers Herford, in his book Christianity in Talmud and Midrash, wrote that rabbinical writings mention that Jesus' mother, Mary, was "descended from princes and rulers."
Despite the noble lineage, Herford noted, the Talmudic text referred to Jesus as "Ben Pandira," roughly translated as "son of a virgin," which was considered an epithet. ...
"While the Jesus Seminar was making radical pronouncements (among them that Jesus was not the Son of God) and courting the media," Blomberg said, "what is less well-known to the public is the study in which scholars have been growing in their appreciation of Jesus' Jewish roots."
He said, "These things have never been presented in any popular forms of consumption to the American public." ...
As a result of the twofold censorship the usual volumes of Rabbinic literature contain only a distorted remnant of supposed allusions to Jesus ..." (Ibid, pp. 58-59)
It seems pretty obvious that the Talmud is discussing Jesus, at least in some instances. A summary of what the most likely passages say about the one I take to be Jesus of Nazareth makes this clear: ...
Before going into that, we need to understand what we are looking for. The Talmudic writers don't say, "O Jesus of Nazareth is who we are talking about." The counch things in language form their world is very different to anything modern Christian would expect to find. They have many nicknames for Jesus, both as derogatory and as part of the self-censoring. Some of these can be translated as "may his name be blotted out" Others are of doubtful origin, ...
but it is asserted strongly by Rabbis over the centuries that they are Talking about Jesus.
---
Neil Altman is a writer who lives in Pennsylvania and specializes in the Dead Sea Scrolls and religion. His others works have appeared The Times of London, the Toronto Star and The Washington Post.
David Crowder, an investigative reporter with the El Paso Times, and Bill Norton, of The Star, contributed to this story.
"The Talmudic writers don't say, "O Jesus of Nazareth "
HOW CONVENIENT! Especially considering that one of his supposed appearance is set in about 100 BC and the other, as Yeshua, is line for line in complete conflict with the Gospels.
You could always do the predictable and REWRITE the Talmud to say what you WANT it to say. "By hanging they meant crucified. By connected to govt, they meant he was of kingly descent. Those 5 were only SOME of his disciples... on and on...."
"The Talmud essentially affirms the New Testament "
The Talmud's portrayal of Yeshua is in complete disagreement with the Gospel accounts and I've stated that 3x NOW! 5 unfamiliar disciples who were executed with him. Yeshua is stoned and then hanged by Jews - NOT crucified by Romans. Yeshua was connected to the govt which Jesus was not. Yeshua had a 40 day trial whereas Jesus was basically lynched. Yeshua was executed for sorcery which the Romans couldn't care less about.
" Summary of what is said about the characters who seem to go by these names:"
I only address what I see on the recent page so don't expect anything before '7'.
Your cut and paste apologetic is a lie and I would like to know which website you took it from. NOWHERE in the Talmud is "Mother Mary", Heli's daughter. There is a Miriam, one of the damned shades, who is the daughter of Heli... She is NOT identified as anyone special, certainly not the mother of Yeshua or Jesus.
I can't believe that in the 21st century people seriosly discuss this nonsensense. If there was a god we would know it with out a dobt. there would'nt be any atheist or dicussion on the bible there would no bible. why would god create such contraversy about his existance if his goal is for everybody to worship him and obey him why play all these fucking little games with us.
"IF the snake WAS Satan then we should find copious references throughout the Bible of Satan deceiving Eve... NOWHERE!"
The Bible was not written for ignorant retards like you who need everything spelled out constantly.
Psalm 85:8 I want to hear what God the LORD says, because he promises peace to his people, to his godly ones. But they must not GO BACK TO THEIR STUPIDITY. ...
Isaiah 28:12-13 He offered rest and comfort to all of you, BUT YOU REFUSED TO LISTEN TO HIM.
And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, LINE UPON LINE, HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LITTLE, that they might go, AND STUMBLE, and be broken, and snared, and taken. ...
And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?
He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, BUT IT IS NOT GIVEN TO THEM.
For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance. But whoever does not have, from him shall be taken away even that which he has.
Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "BY HEARING YOU SHALL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND SEEING YOU SHALL SEE AND SHALL NOT PERCEIVE;
for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.
Isaiah 28:12-13 He offered rest and comfort to all of you, BUT YOU REFUSED TO LISTEN TO HIM.
And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, LINE UPON LINE, HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LITTLE, that they might go, AND STUMBLE, and be broken, and snared, and taken. ...
Psalm 14:1 ONLY A FOOL would say, "There is no God!" People like that are worthless; they are heartless and cruel and never do right.
The Bible is written in such a way that you reprobate atheists cannot understand. It keeps you corrupt liars from deceiving people by manipulating the truth of God.
This way, when God opens the eyes of those He is calling, they can distinguish between you deluded fools and the true servants of God. ...
You know it's really odd for a religion to call all those who are skeptical of the religion blind, stupid or evil.... Yeah, never happens... really! Scientology, Islam, Moonism etc can only say good things about their critics!
Dudly 4:21 "And the Leprechaun priests saith 'Evil, stupid, blind men will tell you that Leprechauns aren't real and these devils will tell you not to obey us or give us money. They are evil, vile, blind and stupid."
A lot of your "You can't understand the Bible" crap sounds exaclty like when I was a Catholic reading the Bible and discovered how badly it contradicted the Catholic Church. Priests would tell me that I don't understand it and I needed them to "interpret" it for me. Really? Is this what you mean... the Bible ISN'T clear, it ISN'T obvious? I THOUGHT God wasn't the author of confusion but right there you said that he IS the author of confusion... well just another contradiction, np.
"You know it's really odd for a religion to call all those who are skeptical of the religion blind, stupid or evil.... "
As stated before, but can't get thru your thick skull, I am not in any religion nor do I attend any church.
The Bible does say bad company corrupts, but I prefer to be honest in my opinion of you reprobates. Being insulting and condescending in a hypocritical fashion is not my style. I leave that to you atheist losers.
" I am not in any religion nor do I attend any church"
You're a Christian. You are a HUGE Christian. You've defended Biblical inerrancy and fundamentalist yet unbiblical church doctrine in ways that would make the most rabid Baptist smile in appreciation.
Let's get past this smoke screen... You're a Christian... Now:
The only evidence you've provided that Jehovah is any more real than Odin, Zeus, Ra, Baal etc is that Jehovah doesn't allow the making of idols.
This is a "distinction without a difference" - all you've done is point out a unique doctrine... EVERY religion has SOME unique doctrines. ONLY Norse Mythology has Valkyries. Does that prove Norse Mythology?
A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide, prayers would work, miracles would be common and documented, the holy book would have an accurate creation story and its laws, medicine and govt wouldn't be savage and primitive. Also, the god wouldn't be a childish, brutal monster.
I can defend it better than most people I know. However, it doesn't help any that those I defend it to are closed-minded, blind and deceitful.
"The only evidence you've provided that Jehovah is any more real ... is that Jehovah doesn't allow the making of idols"
Wrong! Human nature is evident in all manmade gods. Human nature is hostile to the God of the Bible. Jews, Christians and Muslims claim they believe in that God, but only pay lip service. ...
"You, an atheist, believe a REAL God would be YOUR personal servant "
Of course I didn't say that but so what.. huh? I want you to try this: Invent the perfect god that you can use to control and cash in on the gullible.
Since this god doesn't exist you'll have to explain why he's invisible, why he doesn't answer prayer, why his adherents die of disease and famine as readily as sinners, why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions... Whammo Christianity!
MH: "You, an atheist, believe a REAL God would be YOUR personal servant "
Temp: Of course I didn't say that but so what.. huh?
Temp: "A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide, prayers would work, miracles would be common and documented, the holy book would have an accurate creation story and its laws, medicine and govt wouldn't be savage and primitive. Also, the god wouldn't be a childish, brutal monster."
Matt 21:21-22 Jesus answered them, "Truly I tell you, IF YOU HAVE FAITH AND DO NOT DOUBT, ... you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer, IF YOU BELIEVE."
Mark 9:29 He told them, "This kind can come out only by prayer AND FASTING."
James 5:15 And the prayer OFFERED IN FAITH will save the person who is sick.
1Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord ARE ON THE RIGHTEOUS, and his ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO WRONG."
Because God does not hear the prayers of SINNERS, you think that means there is no God. ...
"why his adherents die of disease and famine as readily as sinners"
If they were adherents, they would follow the health and dietary laws provided in the Bible. Also, most famines are manmade due to was, mismanagement by corrupt governments and as tools of war.
"why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions"
It is not wrong. You are just too stupid to understand it.
"If they were adherents, they would follow the health and dietary laws provided in the Bible."
Wow. Did you miss that part of the New Testament where Paul repeals the dietary laws? Besides, Jews died of plagues as much as any other civilization and just like other civilizations blamed it on an angry god.
"why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions"
"Creation story is not wrong. You are just too stupid..."
"Jews died of plagues as much as any other civilization"
WRONG!
When the Black Plague was ravaging Europe, people noticed the Jews were not suffering like the rest of Europeans. People concluded the Jews were responsible, which provided another reason to persecute them.
Like you, people ignored the obvious.
Jews followed health and quarantine laws from the Bible. Jewish communities were cleaner; they buried their waste and burned their garbage. Flies and rats went elsewhere to feed.
"Why don't you show me where Paul repeals the dietary laws"
Romans 14:13-21 examples: "I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself"..."Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean"
1 Timothy 4:1-6. 6 verses summarized: Liars will forbid people to marry and abstain from certain foods. Everything God created is good and nothing to be rejected.
Eliminating kosher laws and circumcision is how Paul won the pagans to his religion. I thought everyone knew that.
"Romans 14:13-21 I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself"
First of all, the beginning of the chapter gives the context. It concerns vegetarians who believe it is wrong to eat any meat whatsoever. Paul is telling Christians not to offend new converts, who are still weak in the faith, by eating foods the vegetarians find offensive in front of them.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats only vegetables. ...
You also quoted a verse that added the word FOOD, which was not in the original texts.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemed any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
There is no mention of food.
Also, the Greek word Paul uses is KOINOS, which is the same word used for unwashed hands and dirty dishes. ...
In the Greek translation, Leviticus uses the word AKATHARTOS to describe animals unfit for human consumption.
Verse 21 also mentions wine. We know the Bible never forbids drinking wine. It only forbids drunkenness. However, Christians should not drink alcohol in front of those who feel it is sinful. They should not cause somebody to lose faith because of the Christian's freedoms. ...
1 Timothy 4:1-6. 6 is discussing false teachers who forbid people to marry when they have a right to do so, and also "to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving.
The biblical dietary laws had to do with animals that were not made for human consumption.
"Because God does not hear the prayers of SINNERS, you think that means there is no God. ..."
You defend your points well, but God is not tied down or limited to rules.
He sacrificed His SON for sinners, for all the people who hate them, despise them and curse their names. Answering their prayers is not as big a deal.
Exo 33:19 The LORD answered, "I will make all my splendor pass before you and in your presence I will pronounce my sacred name. I am the LORD, and I show compassion and pity on those I choose.
I know of devout Catholics and Anglicans who are part of mainstream Christianity and have had their prayers answered. As a church going Christian, I have had many answered prayers and miraculous healing the moment I was anointed and prayed for by the minister.
In addition, in the early days of WWII, the miracle at Dunkirk showed God is still willing to answer the collective prayers of people. The British are not know for being religious or God-fearing.
There are a TON of miracle stories from all religions and cults found all over the world. Add on top of that "Strange but True" style stories and you come to one good conclusion. People may not be good witnesses but they're great storytellers. In reality if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders of witnesses the great miracles that caused the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc etc.
"There are a TON of miracle stories from all religions and cults found all over the world"
The miracle at Dunkirk did not come from religion. You are also comparing stories that have nothing to do with God, religion and miracles to reject miracles and answered prayers.
"if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc"
"if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc"
"Why would God interfere if people don't want Him?"
Are you SERIOUSLY implying that NO ONE in Thailand or in the 9/11 jets or in the towers thought to pray? REALLY?! That's what Christians do under these circumstances. YET the planes hit, the towers came down and the tsunami killed! There are no miracles because there is no God!
"I have had many answered prayers and miraculous healing the moment"
That's pretty common anecdotal, placebo information provided by every religion and every pseudoscience on the planet. This is why the video "Why doesn't God heal amputees." was created. You can feel better from one day to the next, cancer goes into remission, legs stop hurting but NO REAL miracle has ever been documented. If an amputee grew his legs back or someone without optical nerves could see - THAT would be different.
"James 5:15 And the prayer OFFERED IN FAITH will save the person who is sick."
Right! So if prayers for the sick worked that would prove the existence of the Christian god right? Well then if we saw NO results from prayer then that would FALSIFY the Christian god. Well guess what? Study after study proves that prayer has NO statistical advantage over doing nothing. Google: prayer study. Jehovah is as nonexistent as Zeus!
"Well then if we saw NO results from prayer then that would FALSIFY the Christian god"
Are you so incapable of logic and reason that you cannot comprehend a simple answer?
I said "a prayer offered in faith" is one of the conditions for answered prayer.
God deals with people individually.
YOU don't believe God exists and malign Him every chance you get. Do you think you have the faith to pray to such a God you don't believe in and are contemptuous toward?
Ahhhh faith, the conman's best friend. Does anything REAL require faith? No! Does a fire extinguisher or penicillin or life boat require faith to work? No, because they're real. When a conman promises some phony remedy and it doesn't work - what happens? "You didn't have enough faith!"
So no one in any of the 9/11 jets or twin towers or at the shores of Thailand had enough faith for God to answer any of their prayers? RIDICULOUS!
"Does a fire extinguisher or penicillin or life boat require faith to work?"
Are YOU real?
Why didn't YOU prevent 9/11?
Why didn't YOU stop the tsunami?
It is typically dishonest and hypocritical of you to take one bit of information, ignore everything else you were told, just to prove your FALSE opinion.
Jesus taught His disciples - Christians - how to pray so that God would respond. ...
In our modern world, if there were a true Christian whose life would have been in danger on 9/11, it would have been easy for God to make him late for work or miss his flight.
People today justify everything they do no matter how irresponsible, immoral or evil. They like to think they are good people, but they don't measure up to God's standards.
"Noah was the only righteous man in his generation"
WHAT A CRAPPY GOD!! Let's say you had a bunch of kids and only 1 turned out good. You're a LOUSY parent. Let's say you built a bunch of cars and only 1 was any good. You're a LOUSY car designer. Let's say you teach 2nd Grade and only 1 student graduates. You're a LOUSY teacher.
OH... AND people would NOT behave like that if there was a real god - look at how many people openly rebel against Kim Jong Il of North Korea. NOT human nature!
"How do you know they weren't just "Christians" in name only "
Yadda yadda yadda. With hundreds or thousands of affected individuals it is statistically impossible for there not to have been ONE (1) Christian who knew how to pray to this fussy god and get him to enact a miracle. All you're doing - is making excuses for the inactions of a god that obviously doesn't exist. A superfussy or uncaring god is just as bad or worse.
"The apostles ... taught them how to have effective prayers."
Wow what a CRAPPY god!!! Seriously, if I fold my hands and talk to him he'll pull out a list of rules and procedures to check if I'm following them? I could give this god some lessons.. you see no one had to teach my children how to talk to me. If you're god isn't busy I can provide him with some tips.
I said that nothing real requires faith to work - I didn't say that everything real had godlike powers. You could put as much faith in me as you want but I still couldn't stop a 9/11. You could have NO faith whatsoever in a light bulb working but since the light bulb is real, your faith doesn't matter. The light will come on or not completely independent on your level of faith. Only frauds appeal to faith.
wind and gravity both effect the real world in provable, measurable ways. Gods, spirits, ghosts, leprechauns, demons, angels, titans, elves, valkyrie are all the same... invisible, no effect on the real world...nonexistent.
"why he doesn't answer prayer"
blah blah... He doesn't answer prayer because he doesn't exist. Statistically Chrisitians prayed for by family members have the same % chance to survive as nonChristians. There WOULD be a statistical difference somewhere if it worked!
"I threw it back at you asking why the wind, air and gravity are invisible."
Give me an example of something REAL that's invisible and has no effect on the physical world.
I can give you copious examples of nonexistent things that're invisible and have no measurable effect on the real world... Odin, Zeus, Psychic Powers, Dowsing, Leprechauns, Medium spirits, Raamtha, Ley Lines, Chakras, Ananasi, Baal etc
I can't think of ANYTHING real that is invisible and doesn't effect the physical world.
"I know of someone who is real, invisible and controls the entire universe - GOD"
Wow you know making empty, baseless assertions is easy. I know the Leprechauns control the universe. I know that Odin controls the universe. I know that the Egyptian gods control the universe. Making assertions is easy - the problem is... PROVING THEM! There is NO MORE proof for Jehovah then there is for Leprechauns. They do have 1 thing in common - passionate assertions and nonexistence.
"Temp: "A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide..."
Right, I NEVER said he would be MY personal servant anywhere! I said that a REAL being would behave like a REAL being. .. THAT'S all! Jehovah behaves like every other nonexistent god. They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies, no better idea of the world then anyone else in the iron age. They all behave in the SAME way so logically they all ARE the SAME... nonexistent.
"They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies"
That is where you are wrong. It was Adam and Eve who first hid from God.
The Israelites became afraid of God when He spoke the Ten Commandments to all of them, so they asked Moses to speak with God and relate to them what God said.
When God came in the flesh, the Jews killed Him.
Christians have always experienced miracles and answered prayers.
"They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies"
You reference Bible stories but so what.. your god hides as much as Zeus and Odin - they're not real, neither is your god.
Christians experience miracles and answered prayers? Well surprise! EVERYONE CLAIMS that their religion has miracles and answered prayer yet NO ONE can demonstrate it. The PBMA cult CLAIMS that Ruben Ecleo has performed all the miracles of Jesus - are YOU impressed?
Only very generic Jeanne Dixon style predictions. NO detailed prophecy can be shown to have been fulfilled after the book was written. There are several prophecies that have failed as well.
Would a REAL god hide? No.
Would a REAL god that SAID he would answer prayer - demonstrably answer prayer and perform miracles? Yes.
Would a REAL god prophesy things like Hitler? Yes.
Jehovah behaves in every way like all the other nonexistent gods behave.
"Only very generic Jeanne Dixon style predictions"
That is completely false.
Artefacts that were discovered thru archaeology were dated to the reign of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. The inscriptions included the names of low ranking officials mentioned by the prophet Daniel. It proved that Daniel lived during that king's reign and that the long detailed prophecy (from Nebuchadnezzars dream) was written long before the prophecy came to pass.
Liberal scholars claimed the prophecy had to have been written after the events because of the accuracy of all its details.
They had no proof or evidence to claim it was written much later. Being atheists, they automatically reject revelation from God as an explanation. Atheism is the ONLY reason they had for dating the prophecy after the events.
It appears that your whole reason for not believing in God is that He doesn't act as you feel He should.
"It appears that your whole reason for not believing in God is that He doesn't act as you feel He should."
He doesn't act at all - he non-acts EXACTLY how I would expect a hoax to non-act! He behaves like every other god that you are certain doesn't exist. He behaves in NO WAY like anything that really exists. Do you not believe in Odin because he doesn't act the way you want him to - or because he DOESN'T ACT AT ALL... ERGO THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE IN ODIN!f? Be consistent.
How can someone who was healed prove he was sick or injured?
Miracles are not planned or scheduled. It is up to God.
You refuse to acknowledge any miracles.
You imply all Christians are liars.
If an amputee did get his limb restored, you would claim it was a hoax, that he never did lose an arm or leg. You would come up with all kinds of scenarios, without proof or evidence, to dispute or discredit the miracle and insist it was a hoax.
"How can someone who was healed prove he was sick or injured?"
By having a documented medical case! Some examples: We can prove an amputee growing his legs back, a beheaded man restored, a smoker growing back a destroyed lung, someone born blind suddenly able to see... etc . etc. The ONLY "healings" that happen are the sort of thing ANYONE can take credit for... someone feeling better, spontaneous remission, less pain... ALL placebo and anecdotal. Realize psychic frauds rely on this.
It's called being consistent. Do you believe that Mohamed split the moon or Krishna fought ogres or the miracles of Fatima? Do you believe the Buddha who floated before his disciples or the cult who claimed their leader replicated all of Jesus' miracles? NO! Stories like these are a dime a dozen. You have to choose: Either say "I Only believe stories that prove MY god is real." or "We can't trust ANY of these stories."
"What arrogance you have to think you know better than God does"
How ARROGANT you are for not believing in Odin. Why don't you tell your boss how to run his business? You're just making Odin in your own image, Sure he's invisible, doesn't speak, doesn't answer prayer, no miracles, no effect on the real world, no more reason to believe in than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny but you are SO STUPID and SO ARROGANT for not believing that he exists!
I'm kinda tired of these empty insults - is this how you THINK you're refuting me? Seriously? What you said is absolutely NO different from what I said. Claiming that not believing in Jehovah is different from not believing in Odin is as silly as saying... "Batman, Green Arrow, Spiderman are obviously not real but Superman... he's real. If you say he's the same as the others then you're an idiot... HAHA I refuted you!"
"They all rejected God's laws and teachings, only to set up their own laws and traditions CONTRARY to those God commanded."
I've said this a THOUSAND times but you'll never understand! It is NOT human nature to abandon behavior that works for behavior that doesn't work just to rebel and be bad! THAT'S IDIOTIC! The reason people leave a religion is because there's NO REASON to believe that one is more real than any other! They are all frauds meant to control and cash in on the gullible!
"It is NOT human nature to abandon behavior that works for behavior that doesn't work just to rebel and be bad!"
You really have no clue.
Rom 8:6-7 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace.
And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it. (GNB)
Rom 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be. (MKJV)
"Rom 8:6-7 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace."
..and WHO created human nature? What this incredibly silly pile of mindbending crap says is that God gave us a nature that is BAD and not only does NOT obey the being that created it but CANNOT?!?!! AND..AND... WE are PUNISHED for it!!! HOW INCREDIBLY, MONUMENTALLY STUPID! I'd believe in Decepticon Robots before I'd believe in that crap!!!
"They were sinless until they ate from the forbidden tree."
Where did they get this slimy, disgusting, human nature then? Remember that Eve HAD that sickening "human nature" before she plucked the fruit. She chose to follow the snake over Elohim - what was THAT nature called?
I have to post on this for awhile... Christianity is an anti-human religion. It has nothing but contempt for humans and LOVES the god Jehovah. This is GREAT for Kings and Cult leaders because...
...people can slave and sacrifice and lay on their faces before priests, showering the church with money and offering them their children to be brainwashed tools.
Although this makes the religion a PERFECT TOOL to control and cash in on the gullible - it MAKES NO SENSE! WHO MADE HUMANS? If I make a car and the car is a disgusting, nauseating, worm-like piece of garbage... don't I get the credit for that? You CAN'T call humans worthless garbage without insulting God as a terrible creator.
"Where did they get this slimy, disgusting, human nature then?"
Your reasoning is flawed.
Satan had deceived her into making a bad decision. By taking from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their eyes were opened. They only knew the righteousness of God prior to that.
False religions are like counterfeit money, they are worthless. The original true church brought people closer to God and made them better human beings.
It does not make sense to reject God and the Bible because conmen use religion for personal profit. We don't abolish government because some politicians are crooked.
You HAVE to step back and just TRY to see this from an objective perspective. You just referred to the talking snake (NOT Satan) that beguiled the first woman (6,000 years ago) to eat magical fruit and then when the god in the story got afraid that they would eat OTHER magical fruit he got scared that they'd live forever and threw them out!
OTHER religions are obviously wrong huh?
ALL religions are absurd, superstitious mythology!
You are repeating your same MONUMENTALLY STUPID comments.
I'll repeat myself one more time.
If God wanted to program us to do everything exactly as He wants, we would not be human, we would be exactly like animals that do what they do because it is how they are programmed.
To develop holy righteous character, we need to make the free choice between good and evil and CHOOSE to do good.
So instead of making us in such a way that we wouldn't sin he decided on the far better method of giving us choice and then torturing us for eternity if we DON'T ACT LIKE ROBOTS!
That's like giving someone a million dollars and then telling them that if they touch even one dollar of it you'll come back and shoot them. That's a WORTHLESS gift! No one would even want it!
It's like telling them NOT to spend it on CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, but they are free to spend it on anything else."
You missed the analogy. The million dollars represents the choice to act in a way other than a robot. IF you use that choice, God will torture you forever! It's like pointing a gun at your girlfriend's face and saying that she has free will to love you or not to love you but if she chooses not to love you - you'll shoot her in the face. That's not REALLY free will.
I made it clear that the teachings of the Bible have nothing to do with modern Christianity. I also proved that the Bible indicates the earth existed long before Gen 1:2 described its destroyed state.
"HOW can you claim that the "vast majority" reject a god they worship"
As I mentioned before, THEY PAY LIP SERVICE TO GOD. They make every excuse TO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S COMMANDS AND TEACHINGS. You cannot find any of your Catholic doctrines in the Bible. ...
"Jehovah is a childish tyrant with human emotions"
You are just an ignorant atheist fool who know nothing of God or the Bible.
"The majority of religions right now are Abrahamic. HOW can you claim that the "vast majority" reject a god they worship!"
Using God's name on their own pagan beliefs and traditions IS NOT WORSHIPPING GOD. That is like breaking every law in the country and then claiming to be a law-abiding citizen. ...
Jesus ignored Jewish traditions and laws, but obeyed God's laws faithfully. The Jews killed Him because they regarded their own laws and traditions above those of God.
"Jesus ignored Jewish traditions and laws, but obeyed God's laws faithfully."
Jesus violated Sabbath laws.
"The Jews killed Him because..."
The Jews DISMISSED him because (like David Koresh) he was a fraud who matched absolutely NONE of the Messianic prophecies and there was no reason to believe he was a Messiah.
The Romans probably killed him because he claimed to be a Messiah and the Jews were waiting for a Messiah to drive the Romans out of Israel.
So although he violated the Sabbath he didn't sinned because then the Bible would be wrong.
"Jesus proved who He was by fulfilling Old Testament prophecies such as healing the sick and preaching the gospel as confirmed by John the Baptist."
The Messiah was NOT to be a sorcerer and nowhere does the Bible say that the Messiah would have magical powers. Lots of Rabbis promoted the Torah - that didn't make them Messiah - ruling Israel would.
If you're making the case that the Bible is a contradicting, confusing mess of conflicting scripture... Yeah, you're right. If you're saying the OT laws were cruel, superstitious garbage! Yeah, you're right again. BUT if you believe the Bible is the Word of God then you have some 'spaining to do!...
Num 15:32-36 the LORD instructis Moses to stone a man to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath. Matt 12 shows the disciples gathering food on the Sabbath. What's the difference? NOTHING!
It's a cruel law: DUhhhhhhhh! The OT is filled with absurd, cruel, superstitious garbage. The Bible, however supports it and claims that the Lord stated that a man should be KILLED over it.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath: Is he Lord of ALL sins? Could he kill someone and say he is the Lord of life? If he doesn't have to follow the law then the term "sinless" is moot. If he does then he committed a sin!
"The Messiah was NOT to be a sorcerer and nowhere does the Bible say that the Messiah would have magical powers"
Luke 7:22 And he answered them, "Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them.
Nobody else but Jesus, the Messiah had fulfilled these prophecies. Preaching the gospel to the poor is also evidence He would be human. Jesus was ACCUSED of being a sorcerer because of the miracles He performed. Jesus said the miracles were done by the Father thru the power of the Holy Spirit, not sorcery.
Jesus' second coming will be as the all-powerful God and King of kings.
"Using God's name on their own pagan beliefs and traditions IS NOT WORSHIPPING GOD. "
...so YOU and ONLY YOU with your basic and mistaken Sunday School level understanding of the Bible can dictate to everyone what the REAL Christianity is supposed to be.
Look, the Bible is a MESS and many good people who have WANTED to follow it have fought each other over conflicting ideas. Why? Because the Bible is just a confusing pile of contradictions, brutality and absurdities.
It's very basic Sunday school level where Jesus is Jehovah, there is a trinity, the genealogy in Luke is Mary's, the snake is Satan, Isaiah 14 refers to Satan, Ezekiel 28 refers to Satan. All of this is the kind of transparent, childish pap fed to Christians but any level of objective research will falsify all these claims.
"very basic Sunday school level ... any level of objective research will falsify all these claims"
And yet, I have proven YOU wrong repeatedly. YOU have been unable to refute any of my "basic Sunday school level" arguments. That does not say much about YOU.
For the record, there is no Trinity; Luke's genealogy IS of Mary; Bible STATES that the serpent WAS Satan; Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 do describe an angelic being who rebelled against God and was cast back to earth, Satan.
"And yet, I have proven YOU wrong repeatedly. YOU have been unable to refute any of my "basic Sunday school level" arguments."
I've refuted absolutely EVERYTHING you've tried to use. I've debated Christians for over a decade - don't you think I've seen these crappy arguments about a 1000x?
For example: I've refuted in DETAIL how INSANE it is to attribute Luke's genealogy to Mary and you had NOTHING to offer in defense because there is NOTHING to offer - it's a silly, baseless assertion!
"For example: I've refuted in DETAIL how INSANE it is to attribute Luke's genealogy to Mary and you had NOTHING to offer in defense because there is NOTHING to offer - it's a silly, baseless assertion!"
Joseph of Arimathea and the Line of Nathan
Mark says that Joseph went boldly to Pilate to request the body of Jesus (Mark 15:43)—and just in time. ...
sin is anything that hurts us that's why God hates sin because he loves us. Our free will is because we are not robots we can choose to fellow him or not..Fellowing him is much better. if we did not use our free will we wil not learn. we do not go to hell because we use our free will we go there because we choose not to be apart of Gods plan..his plan is best for us. Once we except Christ we can never be damned for what we do..we learn from our mistakes and soldier on.
MissChaceurz 8 months ago
Comment removed
TheCountrySquire 1 year ago
You're certainly a patient one. Did you ever stop to consider that the reason he gave us freewill was because there is a maximum capacity in heaven as ordained by the fire dept.? (Interesting analogy) FIRE dept. haha. Here is my question for you...How is your child going to be brought up? Free to choose? Exposed to both sides without favoring one or the other?
joshjcarlson 2 years ago
/watch?v=fFH0khjgA0U
TheHonestTheist 2 years ago
az- Man didn't know God's will while in the garden? God didn't tell them?
Gen.2:16,17 "And Elohim COMMANDED the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: BUT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely DIE."
Well we can see that aleast Adam KNEW the will of God. I wonder if Eve was informed not to eat of that same tree after she was created? cont.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
Gen.3:2,3 " And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, Elohim hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."
Well here it doesn't say how she KNEW not to eat from the tree, whether God personally told her as he did Adam or if Adam informed her of the COMMAND not to eat the fruit of that tree, BUT she defintely KNEW that was God's COMMAND.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
In the beginning, God gave us a choice to either love him or not, and he did that by giving us free will. He gave Adam and Eve one rule in the beginning; Don't eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. That was mankind choosing sin over God. However, it's not so much HIM punishing US as it is US punishing OURSELVES. Think about it. Being deprived from God is the biggest punishment of all. We chose not to obey him, and therefore we reject him. That is my understanding of it.
thesteelerjoe 2 years ago
thesteelerjoe
"God gave us a choice to either love him or not, and he did that by giving us free will"
And God hasn't change.
He made a Covenant with ancient Israel promising national blessings IF they loved and obeyed God (Deut 30:5-16).
He warned Israel of the consequences that would result if they turned away from God (Deut 30:17-18).
He told the Israelites to CHOOSE between life and death, blessings or curses (Deut 30:19-20). ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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God made a New Covenant with Christian believers through the blood of Christ (Luke 22:20).
Those who choose to love and obey God and His Son have their sins forgiven and will not only be blessed in this life, but also receive eternal life (Luke 18:28-30).
They will become the children of God (John 1:12-13).
Those who refuse to accept and believe in Jesus will be condemned (John 3:18).
People still have their free will to choose.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
Surprising Archaeological Find: Proof of Jesus' Existence
Scholars found firm evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ, His earthly father and one of His half brothers. An intriguing find bears their names.
by Mario Seiglie
First it was the name of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate found in a monument in Caesarea, Israel, in 1961.
Then came the discovery in 1990 in Jerusalem of an ossuary, a burial box for bones, bearing the name of Caiaphas, ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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the high priest who condemned Jesus. Just recently it appears the most spectacular of all archaeological finds relating to Jesus has surfaced.
Another ossuary has come to light, this one bearing the names of Jesus, James and Joseph, three of the most prominent people in the New Testament. The ancient Aramaic words inscribed on the limestone box state that it belonged to "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus." ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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In late October Andre' Lemaire, a specialist in ancient inscriptions and professor at the Sorbonne in Paris, announced the discovery of the stone container with the extraordinary script. An Israeli collector, Oded Golan, had purchased the box from an Arab antiquities dealer more than a decade ago. Mr. Golan had not thought the artifact important until Professor Lemaire examined it. In fact, although Mr. Golan had read the inscription, he hadn't connected it with the biblical Jesus. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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The dealer told Mr. Golan that the box had come from a burial site in southern Jerusalem where a bulldozer had accidentally uncovered a site containing tombs and bone boxes dating to the time of Jesus and James.
Before the announcement of the discovery, the limestone box was subjected to rigorous scientific tests to rule out the possibility. A team of experts from the Geological Survey of Israel examined the box and the inscription under a microscope and found no evidence of ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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...modern tools or tampering. Like the rest of the box, the inscription, though wiped clean in parts, has a thin sheen of particulate matter formed on it called a patina. This particular patina shows that it developed in a cave environment and that it is consistent with an age of 2,000 years.
By its very nature the artifact can be dated to within a few decades. Such bone boxes were in use from about 20 B.C. to A.D. 70, when according to Jewish custom the dead were first sealed in caves ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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... or rock-cut tombs, then their bones later transferred to a limestone bone box after the body had decayed.
Professor Lemaire further narrowed the dating by verifying that the inscription was in a cursive style used only in the few decades before A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Thus the inscription fits the style used around A.D. 62, when James, Jesus' half brother, died.
Hershel Shanks, editor of Biblical Archaeology Review, which announced the discovery, ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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... explained that the inscription was reviewed by Joseph Fitzmyer, one of the world's foremost experts on first-century Aramaic and a preeminent Dead Sea Scrolls editor. Professor Fitzmyer was at first troubled by the spelling of the word for brother, because it was a plural form used centuries later. But further research yielded the same form in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls and on another first-century ossuary. "I stand corrected," Professor Fitzmyer said. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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A putative forger would have to know Aramaic better than Professor Fitzmyer, which seems rather unlikely. "To my mind," wrote Mr. Shanks, "this is one of the strongest arguments for the authenticity of the James inscription" (Biblical Archaeology Review, November-December 2002, p. 33).
"It seems very probable," Professor Lemaire concludes, "that this is the ossuary of the James in the New Testament".
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
9
Although the evidence so far points to the listing of Jesus, James and Joseph on the newfound ossuary as being the same persons mentioned in the New Testament, it cannot be proven with absolute certainty. Perhaps testing methods yet to be developed will be carried out that can further confirm the find.
In the meantime, the find nevertheless appears to be powerful evidence for the accuracy of the Gospel accounts and the literal existence of Jesus of Nazareth, ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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... the Son of God, and His earthly family.
And by no means is this find unique; the existence of many biblical figures has been proven by archaeological finds. So far biblical names that have been positively confirmed include Herod the Great, Herod Agrippa, Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, David, many of the kings of Judah and Israel, and even Jeremiah's scribe, Baruch.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I got bored and I need to do my work.
Re: ossuary. I recently got into a pretty bloody argument with an atheist who declared that Jesus was a mystical being whose crucifixion may've been 100s of years before the writing of the Gospels. I believe Jesus was a run-of-the-mill cult leader who got himself killed. IT ACTUALLY HELPS MY CASE if you prove he exists! The James Ossuary, however, is NOT the way to do it. Check Wikipedia - most of the assertions are lies.
templarart 2 years ago
"Many Biblical characters have been proven to actually exist"
So what? First off let's leave David off the list, I'm NOT going to accept that ONE piece of pottery that MAYBE mentions a HOUSE of David proves the existence of a legendary king who killed a giant and commanded 1.5 million soldiers!
2nd) This is HA1 again! Finding historical figures or places in a myth, doesn't mean the myth is real! There are MANY historical figures in the Iliad - does that mean Ares and Aphrodites exist?
templarart 2 years ago
Are we at the "Bury them in BS" part of the debate where the Christian cuts and pastes WHOLE books and websites into response boxes? Count me out - I don't have time to debate the world!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"The James Ossuary, however, is NOT the way to do it"
I do research.
I present FACTS and PROOF from legitimate EXPERTS.
YOU CLAIM you proved me wrong, but all you have produced were YOUR BIASED OPINIONS without evidence or proof. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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"Finding historical figures or places in a myth, doesn't mean the myth is real!"
You choose to ignore the fact that most of the people, cities, nations and empires mentioned in the Bible were relegated to mythical status during the "Enlightenment age". Archaeological discoveries KEEP PROVING the biblical accounts were true.
You cannot say the findings are wrong because they contradict YOUR BIASED OPINIONS. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
3
Refusing to recognize what scientific experts have confirmed and acknowledge as historical facts, is not proof that I'm wrong.
"Are we at the "Bury them in BS""
You can say whatever you want about MY OPINIONS, but you cannot refute scientific facts without looking like a fool.
"Count me out - I don't have time to debate the world!"
You just don't want to admit you are wrong about the Bible, and you don't want to make your prejudice and deceitfulness obvious.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
@MidnightHustler75 Archaeology also keeps proving other, older stories have truth to them as well. The earth isn't a mere six thousand years old, you know.
YrNhanioArnaYMor 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@YrNhanioArnaYMor
> "The earth isn't a mere six thousand years old, you know"
I never said the earth was only 6,000-years-old. But mankind has been on earth only 6,000 years.
MidnightHustler75 1 year ago
templarart
You keep comparing God, Jesus and the Bible to your stupid leprechauns because you have nothing intelligent to say or evidence to prove them false.
History and archaeology have proven the Bible to be consistently accurate.
All you can do is deny it without proof.
The Bible was written in a span of 1,600 years by 40 writers who have been consistent in relating the history of man's interactions with God. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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To claim that these 40 writers all lied and made up the stories is your vain attempt to discredit people who have never been proven wrong or in error.
Historical and Roman records confirmed the existence of Jesus, His miracles and His death on the Passover. Claiming the historical sources cannot be trusted is yet another vain attempt on your part to discredit anything that proves you wrong. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
3
Zeus, Odin and other fictitious gods do not have the mountain of evidence that the Bible has supporting the biblical accounts. To deliberately ignore it all and lumping God with YOUR imaginary leprechauns shows your dishonesty and the extent you will go to conceal your foolish ignorant ideas.
I'm not wasting anymore time on a deceitful, hypocritical liar like you.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"History and archaeology have proven the Bible to be consistently accurate."
I've shown you over and over how it doesn't and you keep asserting the same incorrect statement over and over. Guess what I can do that for Leprechauns too!
"History and archaeology and and biology have PROVEN the HOLY SHAMROCK to be consistently accurate!" There - an incorrect yet passionate assertion JUST like you! Oh and if you bring up evidence contrary to that assertion I'll just drown you in excuses!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"I've refuted in DETAIL how INSANE it is to attribute Luke's genealogy to Mary"
That is a lie.
You disregarded two separate independent sources that confirmed the Bible's account.
Jesus also warned that there would be false prophets coming in His name to deceive people.
You pointed to one of those false prophets in the Talmud to discredit the other passages that confirmed the true Jesus of the Bible. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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Among the challenges to Christianity was the charge that Jews had rejected Jesus and that no Jewish leaders or scholars ever accepted Jesus as the Messiah. But even one of the most revered Jewish texts, the Talmud, a collection of rabbinical writings from 100 B.C. to A.D. 500, suggests otherwise.
In the second century A.D., Rabbi Judah Ha Nasi (A.D. 135-200) purged the Mishnah, part of the Talmud, of many references to Christianity and those who adhered to it. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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But not everything was edited out.
In his classic work, The History of the Talmud, Jewish Talmudic scholar Michael L. Rodkinson wrote: "There were passages in the Mishnayoth concerning Jesus and his teaching...the Messianists...(were) many and considerable persons and in close alliance with their colleagues the Pharisees during the (first) two centuries." ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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Those words from the Mishnah appear to correspond to New Testament accounts that many Jews, including Pharisees and "a great company of priests were obedient to the faith" (Acts 6:7).
The Talmud mentions that the Romans hanged Jesus from a tree, while in another text section the Talmud does something done nowhere else but the New Testament -- mentions Jesus' birth.
(Note that "hanged" here means "hanged on a cross " - crucified.) ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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English scholar R. Travers Herford, in his book Christianity in Talmud and Midrash, wrote that rabbinical writings mention that Jesus' mother, Mary, was "descended from princes and rulers."
Despite the noble lineage, Herford noted, the Talmudic text referred to Jesus as "Ben Pandira," roughly translated as "son of a virgin," which was considered an epithet. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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"While the Jesus Seminar was making radical pronouncements (among them that Jesus was not the Son of God) and courting the media," Blomberg said, "what is less well-known to the public is the study in which scholars have been growing in their appreciation of Jesus' Jewish roots."
He said, "These things have never been presented in any popular forms of consumption to the American public." ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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As a result of the twofold censorship the usual volumes of Rabbinic literature contain only a distorted remnant of supposed allusions to Jesus ..." (Ibid, pp. 58-59)
It seems pretty obvious that the Talmud is discussing Jesus, at least in some instances. A summary of what the most likely passages say about the one I take to be Jesus of Nazareth makes this clear: ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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A Summary of what is said about the characters who seem to go by these names:
* He was born under unusual circumstances, leading some rabbis to address him as ben Pandira and " a bastard of an adulteress."
* Mother Mary was Heli's daughter.
* Was crucified on the eve of Passover.
* Made himself alive by the name of God.
* Was a son of a woman. (cf. Galatians 4:4)
* Claimed to be God, the son of God, the son of man.
* Ascended and claimed that he would return again. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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* Was near to the kingdom and near to kingship.
* Had at least five disciples.
* Performed miracles, i.e. practiced "sorcery".
* Name has healing power.
* Teaching impressed one rabbi.
The Talmud essentially affirms the New Testament teaching on the life and person of Jesus Christ, God's unique Son and Savior of the world. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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Before going into that, we need to understand what we are looking for. The Talmudic writers don't say, "O Jesus of Nazareth is who we are talking about." The counch things in language form their world is very different to anything modern Christian would expect to find. They have many nicknames for Jesus, both as derogatory and as part of the self-censoring. Some of these can be translated as "may his name be blotted out" Others are of doubtful origin, ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
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but it is asserted strongly by Rabbis over the centuries that they are Talking about Jesus.
---
Neil Altman is a writer who lives in Pennsylvania and specializes in the Dead Sea Scrolls and religion. His others works have appeared The Times of London, the Toronto Star and The Washington Post.
David Crowder, an investigative reporter with the El Paso Times, and Bill Norton, of The Star, contributed to this story.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
10
"The Talmudic writers don't say, "O Jesus of Nazareth "
HOW CONVENIENT! Especially considering that one of his supposed appearance is set in about 100 BC and the other, as Yeshua, is line for line in complete conflict with the Gospels.
You could always do the predictable and REWRITE the Talmud to say what you WANT it to say. "By hanging they meant crucified. By connected to govt, they meant he was of kingly descent. Those 5 were only SOME of his disciples... on and on...."
templarart 2 years ago
9
"The Talmud essentially affirms the New Testament "
The Talmud's portrayal of Yeshua is in complete disagreement with the Gospel accounts and I've stated that 3x NOW! 5 unfamiliar disciples who were executed with him. Yeshua is stoned and then hanged by Jews - NOT crucified by Romans. Yeshua was connected to the govt which Jesus was not. Yeshua had a 40 day trial whereas Jesus was basically lynched. Yeshua was executed for sorcery which the Romans couldn't care less about.
templarart 2 years ago
" Summary of what is said about the characters who seem to go by these names:"
I only address what I see on the recent page so don't expect anything before '7'.
Your cut and paste apologetic is a lie and I would like to know which website you took it from. NOWHERE in the Talmud is "Mother Mary", Heli's daughter. There is a Miriam, one of the damned shades, who is the daughter of Heli... She is NOT identified as anyone special, certainly not the mother of Yeshua or Jesus.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
Since there are others willing to waste their time on you, I can tell you to get lost.
Besides, not all the facts, truth and proof in the world can make a dent in that stubborn hate and bigotry of yours that defies all logic and reason.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
I can't believe that in the 21st century people seriosly discuss this nonsensense. If there was a god we would know it with out a dobt. there would'nt be any atheist or dicussion on the bible there would no bible. why would god create such contraversy about his existance if his goal is for everybody to worship him and obey him why play all these fucking little games with us.
celine111333 2 years ago
We have freedom and free will in our society. But if you break the law, you either pay a fine or go to prison.
Free will does not mean we have the right to victimize people.
For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people.
Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God.
Respect everyone, love other believers, honor God, and respect the Emperor (1Peter 2:15-17).
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
templarart
"IF the snake WAS Satan then we should find copious references throughout the Bible of Satan deceiving Eve... NOWHERE!"
The Bible was not written for ignorant retards like you who need everything spelled out constantly.
Psalm 85:8 I want to hear what God the LORD says, because he promises peace to his people, to his godly ones. But they must not GO BACK TO THEIR STUPIDITY. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
2
Isaiah 28:12-13 He offered rest and comfort to all of you, BUT YOU REFUSED TO LISTEN TO HIM.
And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, LINE UPON LINE, HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LITTLE, that they might go, AND STUMBLE, and be broken, and snared, and taken. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
3
Matt 13:10-16
And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?
He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, BUT IT IS NOT GIVEN TO THEM.
For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance. But whoever does not have, from him shall be taken away even that which he has.
Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
4
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "BY HEARING YOU SHALL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND; AND SEEING YOU SHALL SEE AND SHALL NOT PERCEIVE;
for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
5
But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.
Isaiah 28:12-13 He offered rest and comfort to all of you, BUT YOU REFUSED TO LISTEN TO HIM.
And the word of the LORD will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, LINE UPON LINE, HERE A LITTLE, THERE A LITTLE, that they might go, AND STUMBLE, and be broken, and snared, and taken. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
6
Psalm 14:1 ONLY A FOOL would say, "There is no God!" People like that are worthless; they are heartless and cruel and never do right.
The Bible is written in such a way that you reprobate atheists cannot understand. It keeps you corrupt liars from deceiving people by manipulating the truth of God.
This way, when God opens the eyes of those He is calling, they can distinguish between you deluded fools and the true servants of God. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
7
Now you know why you are incapable of understanding the Bible. You are simply a morally bankrupt ignorant fool.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
You know it's really odd for a religion to call all those who are skeptical of the religion blind, stupid or evil.... Yeah, never happens... really! Scientology, Islam, Moonism etc can only say good things about their critics!
Dudly 4:21 "And the Leprechaun priests saith 'Evil, stupid, blind men will tell you that Leprechauns aren't real and these devils will tell you not to obey us or give us money. They are evil, vile, blind and stupid."
Are you impressed?
Should I post 6 more quotes?
templarart 2 years ago
2
A lot of your "You can't understand the Bible" crap sounds exaclty like when I was a Catholic reading the Bible and discovered how badly it contradicted the Catholic Church. Priests would tell me that I don't understand it and I needed them to "interpret" it for me. Really? Is this what you mean... the Bible ISN'T clear, it ISN'T obvious? I THOUGHT God wasn't the author of confusion but right there you said that he IS the author of confusion... well just another contradiction, np.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"I THOUGHT God wasn't the author of confusion"
He isn't! Police will tell you how dumb and stupid criminals can be.
Sinners are the same.
You proved you jump to conclusions without getting all the facts on a matter.
It takes a fool to do that.
Wise men don't act like that.
However, I did prove a lot, which you chose not to mention, ignore or distort.
That shows how deceitful and dishonest you are. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
2
Also, you never read anything from me claiming to be a Christian. I mentioned this to you before, but you still ignore it.
True Christians would never waste their time with people like you on YouTube.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
templarart
"You know it's really odd for a religion to call all those who are skeptical of the religion blind, stupid or evil.... "
As stated before, but can't get thru your thick skull, I am not in any religion nor do I attend any church.
The Bible does say bad company corrupts, but I prefer to be honest in my opinion of you reprobates. Being insulting and condescending in a hypocritical fashion is not my style. I leave that to you atheist losers.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
" I am not in any religion nor do I attend any church"
You're a Christian. You are a HUGE Christian. You've defended Biblical inerrancy and fundamentalist yet unbiblical church doctrine in ways that would make the most rabid Baptist smile in appreciation.
Let's get past this smoke screen... You're a Christian... Now:
The only evidence you've provided that Jehovah is any more real than Odin, Zeus, Ra, Baal etc is that Jehovah doesn't allow the making of idols.
(cont)
templarart 2 years ago
2
This is a "distinction without a difference" - all you've done is point out a unique doctrine... EVERY religion has SOME unique doctrines. ONLY Norse Mythology has Valkyries. Does that prove Norse Mythology?
A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide, prayers would work, miracles would be common and documented, the holy book would have an accurate creation story and its laws, medicine and govt wouldn't be savage and primitive. Also, the god wouldn't be a childish, brutal monster.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"You are a HUGE Christian"
Satan knows Jesus is the Christ and can quote the Bible better than most people. Does that make him a Christian also?
Your definition of a Christian is not the same as Christ's.
I know God exists. I proved it to myself long ago.
I have also read the Bible many times and studied it thoroughly.
The advantage of having concordances is that you can find every verse on a subject that is spread throughout the Bible to get the FULL PICTURE. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
2
I can defend it better than most people I know. However, it doesn't help any that those I defend it to are closed-minded, blind and deceitful.
"The only evidence you've provided that Jehovah is any more real ... is that Jehovah doesn't allow the making of idols"
Wrong! Human nature is evident in all manmade gods. Human nature is hostile to the God of the Bible. Jews, Christians and Muslims claim they believe in that God, but only pay lip service. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
3
They all rejected God's laws and teachings, only to set up their own laws and traditions CONTRARY to those God commanded.
Who would create a God that everyone rejects, refuse to follow or worship?
How could such a God survive for thousands of years?
What other God has inspired a Bible written in the span of 1,600 years, in which its author is recognized in each of its 66 books?
What other God revealed prophecies that came to pass and others that ARE being fulfilled today? ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
4
"A REAL god would ..."
You, an atheist, believe a REAL God would be YOUR personal servant giving you whatever you want and be at your disposal 24 hrs a day.
All you've done is create a god in your image, a god that is acceptable to you and other selfish, self-absorbed opportunists like you.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 2
"You, an atheist, believe a REAL God would be YOUR personal servant "
Of course I didn't say that but so what.. huh? I want you to try this: Invent the perfect god that you can use to control and cash in on the gullible.
Since this god doesn't exist you'll have to explain why he's invisible, why he doesn't answer prayer, why his adherents die of disease and famine as readily as sinners, why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions... Whammo Christianity!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
MH: "You, an atheist, believe a REAL God would be YOUR personal servant "
Temp: Of course I didn't say that but so what.. huh?
Temp: "A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide, prayers would work, miracles would be common and documented, the holy book would have an accurate creation story and its laws, medicine and govt wouldn't be savage and primitive. Also, the god wouldn't be a childish, brutal monster."
---
You want God to act and do as you see fit. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
2
"Since this god doesn't exist you'll have to explain why he's invisible"
Now that's a stupid question.
Wouldn't you rather want to know why the wind is invisible? Or why gravity is invisible? Or how about why air is invisible?
"why he doesn't answer prayer"
James 4:3 Yet even when you do pray, your prayers are not answered, because you want them for the wrong reason-for your own pleasure.
Selfishness is not something God wants to reward and encourage. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
3
Matt 21:21-22 Jesus answered them, "Truly I tell you, IF YOU HAVE FAITH AND DO NOT DOUBT, ... you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer, IF YOU BELIEVE."
Mark 9:29 He told them, "This kind can come out only by prayer AND FASTING."
James 5:15 And the prayer OFFERED IN FAITH will save the person who is sick.
How much faith does an atheist have? ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
4
1Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord ARE ON THE RIGHTEOUS, and his ears are attentive to their prayer. But the face of the Lord IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO WRONG."
Because God does not hear the prayers of SINNERS, you think that means there is no God. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
5
"why his adherents die of disease and famine as readily as sinners"
If they were adherents, they would follow the health and dietary laws provided in the Bible. Also, most famines are manmade due to was, mismanagement by corrupt governments and as tools of war.
"why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions"
It is not wrong. You are just too stupid to understand it.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
"If they were adherents, they would follow the health and dietary laws provided in the Bible."
Wow. Did you miss that part of the New Testament where Paul repeals the dietary laws? Besides, Jews died of plagues as much as any other civilization and just like other civilizations blamed it on an angry god.
"why his creation story is wrong and make up excuses for all the contradictions"
"Creation story is not wrong. You are just too stupid..."
You're too brainwashed to see any problems.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Wow. Did you miss that part of the New Testament where Paul repeals the dietary laws?"
More ignorance.
Why don't you show me where Paul repeals the dietary laws, as if he had the authority to do so? And don't come back until you find it.
"You're too brainwashed to see any problems"
You can't read plain English to understand anything.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
2
"Jews died of plagues as much as any other civilization"
WRONG!
When the Black Plague was ravaging Europe, people noticed the Jews were not suffering like the rest of Europeans. People concluded the Jews were responsible, which provided another reason to persecute them.
Like you, people ignored the obvious.
Jews followed health and quarantine laws from the Bible. Jewish communities were cleaner; they buried their waste and burned their garbage. Flies and rats went elsewhere to feed.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"Why don't you show me where Paul repeals the dietary laws"
Romans 14:13-21 examples: "I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself"..."Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean"
1 Timothy 4:1-6. 6 verses summarized: Liars will forbid people to marry and abstain from certain foods. Everything God created is good and nothing to be rejected.
Eliminating kosher laws and circumcision is how Paul won the pagans to his religion. I thought everyone knew that.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Romans 14:13-21 I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself"
First of all, the beginning of the chapter gives the context. It concerns vegetarians who believe it is wrong to eat any meat whatsoever. Paul is telling Christians not to offend new converts, who are still weak in the faith, by eating foods the vegetarians find offensive in front of them.
Rom 14:2 For indeed one believes to eat all things; but being weak, another eats only vegetables. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
2
You also quoted a verse that added the word FOOD, which was not in the original texts.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemed any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
There is no mention of food.
Also, the Greek word Paul uses is KOINOS, which is the same word used for unwashed hands and dirty dishes. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
3
In the Greek translation, Leviticus uses the word AKATHARTOS to describe animals unfit for human consumption.
Verse 21 also mentions wine. We know the Bible never forbids drinking wine. It only forbids drunkenness. However, Christians should not drink alcohol in front of those who feel it is sinful. They should not cause somebody to lose faith because of the Christian's freedoms. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
4
1 Timothy 4:1-6. 6 is discussing false teachers who forbid people to marry when they have a right to do so, and also "to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving.
The biblical dietary laws had to do with animals that were not made for human consumption.
So much for YOUR very basic Sunday school level.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
MidnightHustler75
"Because God does not hear the prayers of SINNERS, you think that means there is no God. ..."
You defend your points well, but God is not tied down or limited to rules.
He sacrificed His SON for sinners, for all the people who hate them, despise them and curse their names. Answering their prayers is not as big a deal.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago 2
Exo 33:19 The LORD answered, "I will make all my splendor pass before you and in your presence I will pronounce my sacred name. I am the LORD, and I show compassion and pity on those I choose.
I know of devout Catholics and Anglicans who are part of mainstream Christianity and have had their prayers answered. As a church going Christian, I have had many answered prayers and miraculous healing the moment I was anointed and prayed for by the minister.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago 2
In addition, in the early days of WWII, the miracle at Dunkirk showed God is still willing to answer the collective prayers of people. The British are not know for being religious or God-fearing.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago 2
"the miracle at Dunkirk"
There are a TON of miracle stories from all religions and cults found all over the world. Add on top of that "Strange but True" style stories and you come to one good conclusion. People may not be good witnesses but they're great storytellers. In reality if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders of witnesses the great miracles that caused the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc etc.
templarart 2 years ago
"There are a TON of miracle stories from all religions and cults found all over the world"
The miracle at Dunkirk did not come from religion. You are also comparing stories that have nothing to do with God, religion and miracles to reject miracles and answered prayers.
"if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc"
Why would God interfere if people don't want Him?
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
"if there were REAL miracles we would see through the camcorders the Thai tsunami to stop in midair or the pillar of flame that stopped the planes during 9/11 etc"
"Why would God interfere if people don't want Him?"
Are you SERIOUSLY implying that NO ONE in Thailand or in the 9/11 jets or in the towers thought to pray? REALLY?! That's what Christians do under these circumstances. YET the planes hit, the towers came down and the tsunami killed! There are no miracles because there is no God!
templarart 2 years ago
"I have had many answered prayers and miraculous healing the moment"
That's pretty common anecdotal, placebo information provided by every religion and every pseudoscience on the planet. This is why the video "Why doesn't God heal amputees." was created. You can feel better from one day to the next, cancer goes into remission, legs stop hurting but NO REAL miracle has ever been documented. If an amputee grew his legs back or someone without optical nerves could see - THAT would be different.
templarart 2 years ago
"James 5:15 And the prayer OFFERED IN FAITH will save the person who is sick."
Right! So if prayers for the sick worked that would prove the existence of the Christian god right? Well then if we saw NO results from prayer then that would FALSIFY the Christian god. Well guess what? Study after study proves that prayer has NO statistical advantage over doing nothing. Google: prayer study. Jehovah is as nonexistent as Zeus!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Well then if we saw NO results from prayer then that would FALSIFY the Christian god"
Are you so incapable of logic and reason that you cannot comprehend a simple answer?
I said "a prayer offered in faith" is one of the conditions for answered prayer.
God deals with people individually.
YOU don't believe God exists and malign Him every chance you get. Do you think you have the faith to pray to such a God you don't believe in and are contemptuous toward?
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
'I said "a prayer offered in faith" '
Ahhhh faith, the conman's best friend. Does anything REAL require faith? No! Does a fire extinguisher or penicillin or life boat require faith to work? No, because they're real. When a conman promises some phony remedy and it doesn't work - what happens? "You didn't have enough faith!"
So no one in any of the 9/11 jets or twin towers or at the shores of Thailand had enough faith for God to answer any of their prayers? RIDICULOUS!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Does a fire extinguisher or penicillin or life boat require faith to work?"
Are YOU real?
Why didn't YOU prevent 9/11?
Why didn't YOU stop the tsunami?
It is typically dishonest and hypocritical of you to take one bit of information, ignore everything else you were told, just to prove your FALSE opinion.
Jesus taught His disciples - Christians - how to pray so that God would respond. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
2
The apostles wrote their epistles and letters to the Christian congregations - not atheists or pagans - and taught them how to have effective prayers.
People who don't want God in their lives, ignore Him or will only worship God on THEIR terms should not be surprised if He ignores them also.
What makes you think anyone was praying?
How do you know they weren't all told at one time or another that there is no God or that they are fools if they believe in God? ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
3
How do you know they weren't just "Christians" in name only and want nothing to do with God except when THEY need Him?
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. For whatever a man may sow, that he also will reap (Gal 6:7).
Noah was the only righteous man in his generation. God spared him and his family from the flood.
Lot was the only one in the region of Sodom and Gomorrah who did not join in the wickedness of the people. God spared him and his family. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
4
In our modern world, if there were a true Christian whose life would have been in danger on 9/11, it would have been easy for God to make him late for work or miss his flight.
People today justify everything they do no matter how irresponsible, immoral or evil. They like to think they are good people, but they don't measure up to God's standards.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"Noah was the only righteous man in his generation"
WHAT A CRAPPY GOD!! Let's say you had a bunch of kids and only 1 turned out good. You're a LOUSY parent. Let's say you built a bunch of cars and only 1 was any good. You're a LOUSY car designer. Let's say you teach 2nd Grade and only 1 student graduates. You're a LOUSY teacher.
OH... AND people would NOT behave like that if there was a real god - look at how many people openly rebel against Kim Jong Il of North Korea. NOT human nature!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"WHAT A CRAPPY GOD!! Let's say you had a bunch of kids and only 1 turned out good. You're a LOUSY parent."
More deceit on your part.
God was not the one who raised him, you idiot.
Noah was the only one because he made the right choices in his life.
You already showed YOUR parents and teachers FAILED with you. Your morally bankrupt character shows you are hardly qualified to criticize anyone.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"God was not the one who raised him,"
Elohim designed the people.
He was the ONLY source of morality, knowledge and laws for the first people.
He either did NOT teach parenting or DID teach parenting - either way he is culpable for the result.
He COULD'VE appeared and corrected mistakes as a good parent would.
He COULD'VE dictated laws and set up law enforcement like our society does.
Any way you look at it... Elohim is ABSOLUTELY, THE being to blame for this!
templarart 2 years ago
"What makes you think anyone was praying?"
"How do you know they weren't just "Christians" in name only "
Yadda yadda yadda. With hundreds or thousands of affected individuals it is statistically impossible for there not to have been ONE (1) Christian who knew how to pray to this fussy god and get him to enact a miracle. All you're doing - is making excuses for the inactions of a god that obviously doesn't exist. A superfussy or uncaring god is just as bad or worse.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Yadda yadda yadda. With hundreds or thousands of affected individuals it is statistically impossible for there not to have been ONE (1) Christian"
I already answered that, but you are too pig-headed to accept anything that proves you wrong.
In the time of Noah, there was only one righteous man in the whole world.
In the entire region of Sodom and Gomorrah, there was only one righteous man.
I noticed you chose not to quote my comment about atheists' influence on people.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"In the time of Noah, there was only one righteous man in the whole world."
As a Christian you cannot understand this and you'll dismiss all the valid analogies because OF COURSE your god can't be to blame!
See if you can understand:
Humans were designed by Elohim.
Humans always behave badly and are wicked all the time.
A good human is a ridiculous rarity.
THEREFORE: Elohim screwed up designing humans!
Would you buy a car from a manufacturer who had a 99.999% failure rate?
templarart 2 years ago
"The apostles ... taught them how to have effective prayers."
Wow what a CRAPPY god!!! Seriously, if I fold my hands and talk to him he'll pull out a list of rules and procedures to check if I'm following them? I could give this god some lessons.. you see no one had to teach my children how to talk to me. If you're god isn't busy I can provide him with some tips.
templarart 2 years ago
"Are YOU real? Why didn't YOU prevent 9/11?"
Gee... I don't have godlike powers.
I said that nothing real requires faith to work - I didn't say that everything real had godlike powers. You could put as much faith in me as you want but I still couldn't stop a 9/11. You could have NO faith whatsoever in a light bulb working but since the light bulb is real, your faith doesn't matter. The light will come on or not completely independent on your level of faith. Only frauds appeal to faith.
templarart 2 years ago
wind and gravity both effect the real world in provable, measurable ways. Gods, spirits, ghosts, leprechauns, demons, angels, titans, elves, valkyrie are all the same... invisible, no effect on the real world...nonexistent.
"why he doesn't answer prayer"
blah blah... He doesn't answer prayer because he doesn't exist. Statistically Chrisitians prayed for by family members have the same % chance to survive as nonChristians. There WOULD be a statistical difference somewhere if it worked!
templarart 2 years ago
"Statistically Christians prayed for by family members have the same % chance to survive as nonChristians"
That is false. I have read published reports in newspapers and magazines to the contrary.
TheCountrySquire 2 years ago 2
templarart
"wind and gravity both effect the real world in provable, measurable ways"
Is this how you are deflecting your stupid question?
I threw it back at you asking why the wind, air and gravity are invisible.
Well, what's your answer?
I guess you don't want to admit that invisibility exists.
"blah blah... He doesn't answer prayer because he doesn't exist"
I gave numerous answers directly from the Bible, the Word of God, which proved you wrong. Your only come back is "blah blah"
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"I threw it back at you asking why the wind, air and gravity are invisible."
Give me an example of something REAL that's invisible and has no effect on the physical world.
I can give you copious examples of nonexistent things that're invisible and have no measurable effect on the real world... Odin, Zeus, Psychic Powers, Dowsing, Leprechauns, Medium spirits, Raamtha, Ley Lines, Chakras, Ananasi, Baal etc
I can't think of ANYTHING real that is invisible and doesn't effect the physical world.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Give me an example of something REAL that's invisible and has no effect on the physical world"
Why? I never made any such claim.
"I can't think of ANYTHING real that is invisible and doesn't effect the physical world"
Well, that is a step in the right direction.
I know of someone who is real, invisible and controls the entire universe - GOD.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"I know of someone who is real, invisible and controls the entire universe - GOD"
Wow you know making empty, baseless assertions is easy. I know the Leprechauns control the universe. I know that Odin controls the universe. I know that the Egyptian gods control the universe. Making assertions is easy - the problem is... PROVING THEM! There is NO MORE proof for Jehovah then there is for Leprechauns. They do have 1 thing in common - passionate assertions and nonexistence.
templarart 2 years ago
"Temp: "A REAL god would just be there! He wouldn't hide..."
Right, I NEVER said he would be MY personal servant anywhere! I said that a REAL being would behave like a REAL being. .. THAT'S all! Jehovah behaves like every other nonexistent god. They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies, no better idea of the world then anyone else in the iron age. They all behave in the SAME way so logically they all ARE the SAME... nonexistent.
templarart 2 years ago
"They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies"
That is where you are wrong. It was Adam and Eve who first hid from God.
The Israelites became afraid of God when He spoke the Ten Commandments to all of them, so they asked Moses to speak with God and relate to them what God said.
When God came in the flesh, the Jews killed Him.
Christians have always experienced miracles and answered prayers.
Prophecies have been fulfilled.
TheCountrySquire 2 years ago 2
"They all hide, don't answer prayer, no miracles, no REAL prophecies"
You reference Bible stories but so what.. your god hides as much as Zeus and Odin - they're not real, neither is your god.
Christians experience miracles and answered prayers? Well surprise! EVERYONE CLAIMS that their religion has miracles and answered prayer yet NO ONE can demonstrate it. The PBMA cult CLAIMS that Ruben Ecleo has performed all the miracles of Jesus - are YOU impressed?
templarart 2 years ago
"Prophecies have been fulfilled."
Only very generic Jeanne Dixon style predictions. NO detailed prophecy can be shown to have been fulfilled after the book was written. There are several prophecies that have failed as well.
Would a REAL god hide? No.
Would a REAL god that SAID he would answer prayer - demonstrably answer prayer and perform miracles? Yes.
Would a REAL god prophesy things like Hitler? Yes.
Jehovah behaves in every way like all the other nonexistent gods behave.
templarart 2 years ago
"Only very generic Jeanne Dixon style predictions"
That is completely false.
Artefacts that were discovered thru archaeology were dated to the reign of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. The inscriptions included the names of low ranking officials mentioned by the prophet Daniel. It proved that Daniel lived during that king's reign and that the long detailed prophecy (from Nebuchadnezzars dream) was written long before the prophecy came to pass.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago 2
Liberal scholars claimed the prophecy had to have been written after the events because of the accuracy of all its details.
They had no proof or evidence to claim it was written much later. Being atheists, they automatically reject revelation from God as an explanation. Atheism is the ONLY reason they had for dating the prophecy after the events.
It appears that your whole reason for not believing in God is that He doesn't act as you feel He should.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
"It appears that your whole reason for not believing in God is that He doesn't act as you feel He should."
He doesn't act at all - he non-acts EXACTLY how I would expect a hoax to non-act! He behaves like every other god that you are certain doesn't exist. He behaves in NO WAY like anything that really exists. Do you not believe in Odin because he doesn't act the way you want him to - or because he DOESN'T ACT AT ALL... ERGO THERE'S NO REASON TO BELIEVE IN ODIN!f? Be consistent.
templarart 2 years ago
"Daniel"
Daniel is definitely a 1st century forgery. It's funny that it gets so much right in it's "prophecy" but completely fails at history.
1) There was NO Darius the Mede. There never was! Babylon was conquered by Cyrus the Persian and EVERY Jew (except Daniel) knows this.
2) The number of Satraps is wrong.
3) The description of the Persian conquest is incorrect.
This is a GOOD example of a blatant forgery.
templarart 2 years ago
"1st Century Forgery"
I MEANT to say 1st Century BCE forgery.
templarart 2 years ago
"NO ONE can demonstrate it"
How can someone who was healed prove he was sick or injured?
Miracles are not planned or scheduled. It is up to God.
You refuse to acknowledge any miracles.
You imply all Christians are liars.
If an amputee did get his limb restored, you would claim it was a hoax, that he never did lose an arm or leg. You would come up with all kinds of scenarios, without proof or evidence, to dispute or discredit the miracle and insist it was a hoax.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
"How can someone who was healed prove he was sick or injured?"
By having a documented medical case! Some examples: We can prove an amputee growing his legs back, a beheaded man restored, a smoker growing back a destroyed lung, someone born blind suddenly able to see... etc . etc. The ONLY "healings" that happen are the sort of thing ANYONE can take credit for... someone feeling better, spontaneous remission, less pain... ALL placebo and anecdotal. Realize psychic frauds rely on this.
templarart 2 years ago
"You refuse to acknowledge any miracles."
It's called being consistent. Do you believe that Mohamed split the moon or Krishna fought ogres or the miracles of Fatima? Do you believe the Buddha who floated before his disciples or the cult who claimed their leader replicated all of Jesus' miracles? NO! Stories like these are a dime a dozen. You have to choose: Either say "I Only believe stories that prove MY god is real." or "We can't trust ANY of these stories."
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"I said that a REAL being would behave like a REAL being"
What arrogance you have to think you know better than God does and that YOU could tell HIM how to run the world.
You don't believe in any god, so how do you know how a REAL God should behave? Again, you are creating God in YOUR image.
Because He doesn't fit YOUR image, you say He doesn't exist.
Why don't you tell your boss how to run his business and see how that goes?
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"What arrogance you have to think you know better than God does"
How ARROGANT you are for not believing in Odin. Why don't you tell your boss how to run his business? You're just making Odin in your own image, Sure he's invisible, doesn't speak, doesn't answer prayer, no miracles, no effect on the real world, no more reason to believe in than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny but you are SO STUPID and SO ARROGANT for not believing that he exists!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"How ARROGANT you are for not believing in Odin"
Unable to dispute my statement so you revert to Richard Dawkins' idiocy.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"How ARROGANT you are for not believing in Odin"
I'm kinda tired of these empty insults - is this how you THINK you're refuting me? Seriously? What you said is absolutely NO different from what I said. Claiming that not believing in Jehovah is different from not believing in Odin is as silly as saying... "Batman, Green Arrow, Spiderman are obviously not real but Superman... he's real. If you say he's the same as the others then you're an idiot... HAHA I refuted you!"
templarart 2 years ago
"They all rejected God's laws and teachings, only to set up their own laws and traditions CONTRARY to those God commanded."
I've said this a THOUSAND times but you'll never understand! It is NOT human nature to abandon behavior that works for behavior that doesn't work just to rebel and be bad! THAT'S IDIOTIC! The reason people leave a religion is because there's NO REASON to believe that one is more real than any other! They are all frauds meant to control and cash in on the gullible!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"I've said this a THOUSAND times"
LIAR!
"It is NOT human nature to abandon behavior that works for behavior that doesn't work just to rebel and be bad!"
You really have no clue.
Rom 8:6-7 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace.
And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it. (GNB)
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
2
Rom 8:6-7 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be. (MKJV)
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
"Rom 8:6-7 To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by the Spirit results in life and peace."
..and WHO created human nature? What this incredibly silly pile of mindbending crap says is that God gave us a nature that is BAD and not only does NOT obey the being that created it but CANNOT?!?!! AND..AND... WE are PUNISHED for it!!! HOW INCREDIBLY, MONUMENTALLY STUPID! I'd believe in Decepticon Robots before I'd believe in that crap!!!
templarart 2 years ago
"WHO created human nature?"
They were sinless until they ate from the forbidden tree.
I doubt your irrational hostility to a God you don't believe exist can allow you to understand or follow scripture.
Blaming others is typical of people, especially criminals.
TheCountrySquire 2 years ago 2
"They were sinless until they ate from the forbidden tree."
Where did they get this slimy, disgusting, human nature then? Remember that Eve HAD that sickening "human nature" before she plucked the fruit. She chose to follow the snake over Elohim - what was THAT nature called?
I have to post on this for awhile... Christianity is an anti-human religion. It has nothing but contempt for humans and LOVES the god Jehovah. This is GREAT for Kings and Cult leaders because...
templarart 2 years ago
2
...people can slave and sacrifice and lay on their faces before priests, showering the church with money and offering them their children to be brainwashed tools.
Although this makes the religion a PERFECT TOOL to control and cash in on the gullible - it MAKES NO SENSE! WHO MADE HUMANS? If I make a car and the car is a disgusting, nauseating, worm-like piece of garbage... don't I get the credit for that? You CAN'T call humans worthless garbage without insulting God as a terrible creator.
templarart 2 years ago
"Where did they get this slimy, disgusting, human nature then?"
Your reasoning is flawed.
Satan had deceived her into making a bad decision. By taking from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, their eyes were opened. They only knew the righteousness of God prior to that.
False religions are like counterfeit money, they are worthless. The original true church brought people closer to God and made them better human beings.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
It does not make sense to reject God and the Bible because conmen use religion for personal profit. We don't abolish government because some politicians are crooked.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
'False religions are like counterfeit money"
You HAVE to step back and just TRY to see this from an objective perspective. You just referred to the talking snake (NOT Satan) that beguiled the first woman (6,000 years ago) to eat magical fruit and then when the god in the story got afraid that they would eat OTHER magical fruit he got scared that they'd live forever and threw them out!
OTHER religions are obviously wrong huh?
ALL religions are absurd, superstitious mythology!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"HOW INCREDIBLY, MONUMENTALLY STUPID!"
You are repeating your same MONUMENTALLY STUPID comments.
I'll repeat myself one more time.
If God wanted to program us to do everything exactly as He wants, we would not be human, we would be exactly like animals that do what they do because it is how they are programmed.
To develop holy righteous character, we need to make the free choice between good and evil and CHOOSE to do good.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"If God wanted to program us to do everything exactly as He wants, "
Blah blah, free will, blah blah he doesn't want robots.
So instead of making us in such a way that we wouldn't sin he decided on the far better method of giving us choice and then torturing us for eternity if we DON'T ACT LIKE ROBOTS!
That's like giving someone a million dollars and then telling them that if they touch even one dollar of it you'll come back and shoot them. That's a WORTHLESS gift! No one would even want it!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Blah blah, free will, blah blah he doesn't want robots"
And you don't want to hear the truth because it does not support your bigotry.
"That's like giving someone a million dollars and then telling them that if they touch even one dollar of it you'll come back and shoot them"
Wrong again!
It's like telling them NOT to spend it on CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, but they are free to spend it on anything else.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"Wrong again!
It's like telling them NOT to spend it on CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, but they are free to spend it on anything else."
You missed the analogy. The million dollars represents the choice to act in a way other than a robot. IF you use that choice, God will torture you forever! It's like pointing a gun at your girlfriend's face and saying that she has free will to love you or not to love you but if she chooses not to love you - you'll shoot her in the face. That's not REALLY free will.
templarart 2 years ago
"Who would create a God that everyone rejects, refuse to follow or worship?"
Asinine! The majority of religions right now are Abrahamic. HOW can you claim that the "vast majority" reject a god they worship! SERIOUSLY!
"Human nature is evident in all manmade gods. "
EXACTLY! Jehovah is a childish tyrant with human emotions - made by men to enforce the rules of kings!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"And using the same "evidence" the followers of Odin, Zeus, Balaam, Mithra, Osiris would say exactly the same thing"
You have to be a complete ignorant moron to even compare the evidence of God to Roman, Greek and pagan gods.
"Your comprehension of the Bible is standard Sunday school fare with some 80's 'new earth' theology sprinkled in"
That confirms it. You are an ignorant moron and a deceitful liar on top of it. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
2
I made it clear that the teachings of the Bible have nothing to do with modern Christianity. I also proved that the Bible indicates the earth existed long before Gen 1:2 described its destroyed state.
"HOW can you claim that the "vast majority" reject a god they worship"
As I mentioned before, THEY PAY LIP SERVICE TO GOD. They make every excuse TO NOT FOLLOW GOD'S COMMANDS AND TEACHINGS. You cannot find any of your Catholic doctrines in the Bible. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
3
"Jehovah is a childish tyrant with human emotions"
You are just an ignorant atheist fool who know nothing of God or the Bible.
"The majority of religions right now are Abrahamic. HOW can you claim that the "vast majority" reject a god they worship!"
Using God's name on their own pagan beliefs and traditions IS NOT WORSHIPPING GOD. That is like breaking every law in the country and then claiming to be a law-abiding citizen. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
4
Jesus ignored Jewish traditions and laws, but obeyed God's laws faithfully. The Jews killed Him because they regarded their own laws and traditions above those of God.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago 3
"Jesus ignored Jewish traditions and laws, but obeyed God's laws faithfully."
Jesus violated Sabbath laws.
"The Jews killed Him because..."
The Jews DISMISSED him because (like David Koresh) he was a fraud who matched absolutely NONE of the Messianic prophecies and there was no reason to believe he was a Messiah.
The Romans probably killed him because he claimed to be a Messiah and the Jews were waiting for a Messiah to drive the Romans out of Israel.
templarart 2 years ago
"Jesus violated Sabbath laws"
If Jesus violated the Sabbath, then He sinned. His death could only cover His own sins.
"The Jews DISMISSED him because (like David Koresh) he was a fraud"
Jesus proved who He was by fulfilling Old Testament prophecies such as healing the sick and preaching the gospel as confirmed by John the Baptist.
"The Romans probably killed him because he claimed to be a Messiah"
Pontius Pilate was going to free Him, but the Jews threatened to complain to Caesar.
TheCountrySquire 2 years ago 2
"If Jesus violated the Sabbath, then He sinned. "
So although he violated the Sabbath he didn't sinned because then the Bible would be wrong.
"Jesus proved who He was by fulfilling Old Testament prophecies such as healing the sick and preaching the gospel as confirmed by John the Baptist."
The Messiah was NOT to be a sorcerer and nowhere does the Bible say that the Messiah would have magical powers. Lots of Rabbis promoted the Torah - that didn't make them Messiah - ruling Israel would.
templarart 2 years ago
"So although he violated the Sabbath he didn't sinned because then the Bible would be wrong"
Jesus did not break the Sabbath any more than emergency vehicles break traffic laws when they go thru a red light.
Jesus and His disciples were only ACCUSED by Pharisees of breaking the Sabbath, because they disregarded Jewish laws and traditions.
The Jews had added hundreds of laws that were not part of the Bible. Those Jewish laws left no room for mercy or compassion.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
Jesus gave the example of when David and his men were on the run and starving. The priests gave them food that only priests were allowed to eat.
Jesus reminded the Pharisees that if they had understood that God desired mercy, not sacrifice, they would not have condemned THE INNOCENT.
People ignore the entire context and say Jesus disregarded the Sabbath, which was false.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
If you're making the case that the Bible is a contradicting, confusing mess of conflicting scripture... Yeah, you're right. If you're saying the OT laws were cruel, superstitious garbage! Yeah, you're right again. BUT if you believe the Bible is the Word of God then you have some 'spaining to do!...
Num 15:32-36 the LORD instructis Moses to stone a man to death for gathering wood on the Sabbath. Matt 12 shows the disciples gathering food on the Sabbath. What's the difference? NOTHING!
templarart 2 years ago
So let's address the excuses:
It's a cruel law: DUhhhhhhhh! The OT is filled with absurd, cruel, superstitious garbage. The Bible, however supports it and claims that the Lord stated that a man should be KILLED over it.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath: Is he Lord of ALL sins? Could he kill someone and say he is the Lord of life? If he doesn't have to follow the law then the term "sinless" is moot. If he does then he committed a sin!
templarart 2 years ago
"The Messiah was NOT to be a sorcerer and nowhere does the Bible say that the Messiah would have magical powers"
Luke 7:22 And he answered them, "Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have the gospel preached to them.
From Isaiah 29:18-21; 35:5-6; 61:1;
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
Nobody else but Jesus, the Messiah had fulfilled these prophecies. Preaching the gospel to the poor is also evidence He would be human. Jesus was ACCUSED of being a sorcerer because of the miracles He performed. Jesus said the miracles were done by the Father thru the power of the Holy Spirit, not sorcery.
Jesus' second coming will be as the all-powerful God and King of kings.
CheckMateKing3 2 years ago
"From Isaiah 29..."
You're not quoting Messianic prophecies but Israel-as-a-Utopia prophecies. Jesus does not match Messianic prophecies.
1) Messianic prophecies are clearly labeled as such.
2) Utopian prophecies are invalid as Israel was NOT a utopia during the life of Christ..
3) ACTUAL Messianic prophecies show a king that rules over most of the Middle East, judges the Gentiles and creates the Utopia you quoted.
There is NO prophecy of virgin birth, resurrection or 2nd coming.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"Jesus violated Sabbath laws"
"The Jews DISMISSED him because (like David Koresh) he was a fraud"
"The Romans PROBABLY killed him because he claimed to be a Messiah"
Do you really believe YOUR unfounded OPINIONS can trump the written facts straight from the source?
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"Using God's name on their own pagan beliefs and traditions IS NOT WORSHIPPING GOD. "
...so YOU and ONLY YOU with your basic and mistaken Sunday School level understanding of the Bible can dictate to everyone what the REAL Christianity is supposed to be.
Look, the Bible is a MESS and many good people who have WANTED to follow it have fought each other over conflicting ideas. Why? Because the Bible is just a confusing pile of contradictions, brutality and absurdities.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"with your basic and mistaken Sunday School level understanding of the Bible"
I consistently prove you wrong FROM the Bible, but to save face, YOU refer to my vast knowledge as Sunday school level. So lame.
"so YOU and ONLY YOU"
Unlike YOU, I don't make things up, especially to cover up stupidity.
NONE of it came from ME. ALL my information and proof were quoted directly from the Bible, which GOD inspired. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
2
The Bible is not a mess.
However, unbiblical doctrines and beliefs do create problems between religions that do not follow the doctrines and teachings of the Bible.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"my vast knowledge as Sunday school level."
It's very basic Sunday school level where Jesus is Jehovah, there is a trinity, the genealogy in Luke is Mary's, the snake is Satan, Isaiah 14 refers to Satan, Ezekiel 28 refers to Satan. All of this is the kind of transparent, childish pap fed to Christians but any level of objective research will falsify all these claims.
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"very basic Sunday school level ... any level of objective research will falsify all these claims"
And yet, I have proven YOU wrong repeatedly. YOU have been unable to refute any of my "basic Sunday school level" arguments. That does not say much about YOU.
For the record, there is no Trinity; Luke's genealogy IS of Mary; Bible STATES that the serpent WAS Satan; Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 do describe an angelic being who rebelled against God and was cast back to earth, Satan.
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago
"And yet, I have proven YOU wrong repeatedly. YOU have been unable to refute any of my "basic Sunday school level" arguments."
I've refuted absolutely EVERYTHING you've tried to use. I've debated Christians for over a decade - don't you think I've seen these crappy arguments about a 1000x?
For example: I've refuted in DETAIL how INSANE it is to attribute Luke's genealogy to Mary and you had NOTHING to offer in defense because there is NOTHING to offer - it's a silly, baseless assertion!
templarart 2 years ago
templarart
"For example: I've refuted in DETAIL how INSANE it is to attribute Luke's genealogy to Mary and you had NOTHING to offer in defense because there is NOTHING to offer - it's a silly, baseless assertion!"
Joseph of Arimathea and the Line of Nathan
Mark says that Joseph went boldly to Pilate to request the body of Jesus (Mark 15:43)—and just in time. ...
MidnightHustler75 2 years ago