Ben Hogan Reverse Pivot

[rw5791]

all well and good but hogan is hitting a tee shot here.The strike will be just after the bottom of the swing,hence the ball position will be off his left heel ,not his left ear.

[phildrummer1]

I don't think anybody would like their swing to be reviewd next to hogans' swing!

[baka86]

Do you think you could edit the title of the video. I clicked on it ready to rage at someone claiming Hogan had a reverse pivot, but decided to watch the video first! Maybe put "Proof Ben Hogan did not reverse pivot". Hahah.

[avidgolfr]

THANK YOU!!! Ben Hogan did NOT have a reverse pivot!! Best ball striker EVER...crackheads. Thanks for your post cquinton.

[stephenperera]

Hi, has anyone noticed this famous footage of Hogan is not taken from directly infront of him. cquitnton could you try this again with him hitting an iron and a better camera angle? One directly face on would be better, the angle is so important and this is not good footage to look at this.

I like Jim Hardy's explanation of Hogan's swing in the Plane Truth For Golfers, Masterclass and his videos. Also, down the line footage will show you the change in his shoulder plane in the downswing

[stephenperera]

this is important as it explains why his lower body movement looks like it does

[DASH1ful]

When a player has a reverse pivot they tilt the shoulders, leaving their weight on their left side, and do not turn the shoulders. Hogan clearly did turn his shoulders; but still moved towards his left side at the top. This was caused by his wide stance. The angle of his right leg resisted against his turn and pushed his hips forwards towards his left side.

[justintimberfake13]

shame on cquinton for confusing the golfers who watch this stuff. The notch in the collarbone (center sternum) is the bottom of the swing. Not the left armpit(RH golfers). Build a swing with the concept that the armpit is the bottom and youll hit it thin, or hit a big fade cuz shoulders are rediculously open at impact...wow. sean clement would pee on you lmao

[avidgolfr]

I think that depends which club you're hitting justin....if you're hitting a 3 wood with the ball even with your sternum you will block it well right because you wont have time to square the face...or u will have to flip your hands at it...and that never works out well.

[fontaine32]

The student on the right is doomed from the start.. Bad Grip, Posture, weight already on left side at address, shoulders open..No chance hell he can pivot properly.. Most, swing problems are rooted from the setup.. Hogan is perfectly balanced at address, which allows him to turn around his center.. Faulty address position=faulty swing..

[filthee1]

@fontaine32

[kellj99]

@fontaine32 pretentious.

[fontaine32]

@kellj99 How so??? Want to play a round of golf for your house? 

[hyperjack12]

BS Title.

No reverse pivot from Hogan...EVER!@

[smartcooky99]

Yes. I think that was the point of Chucks' video, wasn't it, to show that there was no reverse pivot in Ben Hogans swing?

[brown547]

Yes, you are right about the educated hands. What I have found is that if I keep my arms close to my body as Mr. Hogan describes in his book, then my hands will follow the correct path and the club face will square with the rotating of my body

[lakotal]

ha! Hello, a reverse pivot is where yu are on the left side on BS and then you fall back to your right side on the DS. Hogan was the sh!t OK, and never hit off his rt foot

go read VJ Trolio's book

[brown547]

Hey lakotal

You have read VJ Trolio's book, I took lessons from VJ at Old Waverly in April, he's an awesome instructor. Yes, Hogan was the stuff...Ben Hogan never had a reverse pivot...what people don't understand is that he didn't need a lateral move to start his downswing that's why he's says over 40 times in "Five Lesson," turn the hips to start the downswing..What people think is a reverse pivot is actually his center mass being displaced left at the top of his swing

[lakotal]

Yes, I have the book and his Alignment Golf video he did w/ Lynn Blake great stuff.

I'd love to go see VJ, nice guy, talked to me over the phone for about 20 mins.

I like his pivot but you MUST educate the hands or you will never make consistent contact.

[dexterityhunter]

Hogan did not need a lateral move to start his downswing? That is not true at all! Hogan is known for one of the largest (lateral) transitions ever seen in golf. He also points out in his book that there must be enough lateral movement in the hip turn! Why does he emphasize on the hip turn so many times? Because amateur players tend to start their downswing with either a movement of the upper body or the arms!

[brown547]

The reason he says more than forty times, in his book "Five Lesson," to turn the hips to start the downswing, is because Mr. Hogan made the lateral move to left in his backswing, so at the top of his swing he was already into his left side with the majority his center of mass setting on top of his left femoral head. This why his right leg straightens out on the backswing. he repeated states "TURN THE HIPS TO START THE DOWNSWING" because the lateral shift was already done.

[dexterityhunter]

That is a good point, indeed! But I think in any good swing there is a point ("transition") when the upper body and arms complete the backswing while the lower body is starting the downswing already. Just have a look at Villegas, Harrington or Els. Actually, it is kind of misleading to think: 1. backswing, 2. downswing.

[brown547]

Yes, you are correct; it's kind of misleading to think 1. backswing, 2. downswing. Mr. Hogan refered to golf swing in two parts, the first part of the swing and the second part of the swing. Yes, Mr. Hogan does mention of moving the hips right before reaching the top of the swing. Hogan did this becasur his hip action was really fluid and fast.

[andypatnou]

reminds me of this one time at bacon.

[Cervicconstruction]

What is perceived to be a reverse pivot is a misconception.Neither is the statement that Hogan"Hung" on his left side.Hogan set up with his weight balanced somewhat biased to his left side.This is very evident and quite clear in the video that that man made of his swing at the 67 masters.What is also quite evident from that vid is that his weight starts to transfer well before the transition of his swing starts from the top.Hogan was driven by poverty and had an iron will.

[TREEZACIDE]

i don't speak english but i think that " reverse pivot " is composing by two words REVERSE (the hands of the clock on reverse side) and PIVOT (movement around one axis) so..

If a righted Golfer's playing with a REVERSE PIVOT, he must do is swing in reverse (so left), he is now a righ handed player who is playing in left side..

[TREEZACIDE]

Sometime at the top position of back swing, before translation, some player use to put more weight of their body on the forward side, IT IS NOT REVERSE PIVOT only a bad distribution of the weight of the body, that sometime could disturb some player.. Ended if someone or some golf teacher tell you some about reverse pivot RUN AWAY..

[Evafan133]

If Hogan had a reverse pivot, his head would go over the ball and he wouldn't be able to hit the ball square.

[Mastiff230]

Hogan always had a problem with hooking the ball. The cupped hands where to negate the tendancy to hit the ball left

[devosooner]

hogan never reverse pivoted...check the hogan collection videos "downswing"

[fnlost]

hogan had the right knee kicked in big time at address, and loaded big time

unlike the cat on the right

[1969theo]

hogan never reversed pivot he coiled behind,great separation,looking at these two swings here at address if hogan simply picked his arms up from his address with a bit of force he would look like the guy on the right,my point being people try to get height into the arms in the backswing without pivoting properly and it throws your swing out of whack reverse pivot hip slide etc,so to the guy on the right pay attention to this! and coil on the backswing dont lift up,

[youthbus]

he didnt pick his arms up he took them backwards. it looks like a reverse pivot cuz his change of direction for his lower body is faster than usual. thats how he coils his upper body. If u can keep this tension then its extra distance. but then only hogan can do this.i dont think i saw any tour pros do hogans move. tiger tried to copy hogans finish lol:P. but johnathon bryd was pretty close :p

[ssgolf37]

the man on the right tilts alot like sergio garcia, very nice!!!

[shillbaby]

The camera angle is way off for Mr. Hogan's swing. Hogan never hit a wood from just past center of his body. This gives you wrong images with the swing.

[luthien373]

Regarding a cupped left wrist. Gary Player once asked Hogan if his (Gary's) swing was "too flat." Hogan replied that your swing is never too flat as long as your thumbs are under the grip. In other words, Hogan was flat, but didn't take the club behind him. Hogan's swing was in center. Why? Because he was 5 foot 7 inches tall and he swung on plane. Byron Nelson's swing is very similar to Hogan's, but Nelson was 6 foot 1 and had a different plane. Hogan didn't cup his left wrist. Grow up

[youthbus]

luthien373 hogan wasnt flat. the correct swing plane is when the left arm is across the right shoulder and thats exactly where he was. :P

[tenillechristine]

the left wrist wasn't ever intentionally "cupped" in Hogan's swing. Regarding "flat", people have to understand how "relative" terms like these are in golf swing analysis... again you are right- flat is simply "on plane" in the case of Hogan... Look at another immaculate swinger of similar height - Trevino... a very similar move to Hogan's in regards to the mechanics of the move... alignment and grip aside . I guess Trevino did learn some stuff watching Hogan at the range at Fort Worth...

[trapsmv9]

He cupped to fade it. A little less rotation of the arms in the backswing, IMO. Most of the shots he played in the post-Secret era that I've heard, seen, and read of were played with a flat left wrist... Straight shots or draws.

Of course, everything I've heard could be BS, but... lol. You decide.

[luthien373]

Hogan is coiled and is not reverse pivoting. If you think otherwise then you do not know what a reverse pivot is. The guy on the right is reverse pivoting. Go read Hogan's 5 Lessons (not power golf) and also read any book by Jimmy Ballard. Similar to what Arthur Jones accomplished with strength training, Ballard used logic to back up ideas and analysis.

[youthbus]

yep hes coiling up by shifting his weight to the left while his arms are going back. but only the great hogan can do that move :P

[luthien373]

If you draw a line from Hogan's sternum, it ends at the instep of his right foot. If you draw a line from the guy on the right's sternum, it ends in the middle of his feet. The sternum is Hogan's center. By looking at where the position of the sternum is and where Hogan's left shoulder is, you can see that he is coiled into his right side in an athletic hitting position. The left shoulder of the guy on the right is hanging on the ball and he is reverse pivoting.

[benk72]

The one thing that really saved Hogan from a reverse pivot with his driver is his ball position. Being a great player, Hogan knows his head needed to stay behind the ball so he faught like hell to keep it back there at the top.

[benk72]

If it were off his left heel, you would most likely see his spine tilt towards the target due to his hip tilt. Your average tour pro tilts there hips 11 degrees to the left with a 5 iron and Hogans were about 19 or 20. When the left hip drops the spine usually wants to balance the body out by moving over the left hip resulting in a reverse pivot. Hogan faught that by keeping his head behind a ball that was further back in his stance.

[huronmountain]

The ball is off his left heel. The camera is not positioned at 90 degrees in this shot giving the appearance that it is further back in his stance than it really is. Your analysis is based on a false observation.

[progolfer40]

he never had a reverse pivot,was he aslicer??NO!!! he hooekd it alot in his early days and correct it but cupping his left wrist at top of backswing.

He rotated around two pivots,can't you see that??

[CarpoMcDivot]

Please direct me to a video where Hogan uses a cupped left wrist at the top.

[davesporty]

Why dont you look at his wrist angle at top of backswing,this is how he conquered his hooks early in his professional career.

He even explains this in his books, and I am surprised you don't know what cupped means.

Try studying his swing from all angles for once.

[jelqer]

Hogan obviously straightens his right leg, but it isn't completely straight or a reverse pivot. Hogan's swing is easy, but you won't learn it from OPS'ers or Rotational Swing models...

[progolfer40]

How can you said that you can't learn from a player like Hogan? His grip,posture,address position,takeaway is what ever club golfer can learn from as to Players of lesser stature.

[itubeutude]

good video.

[emncaity]

Nice analysis, Chuck, and dead right. I've always thought the reverse-pivot many teachers--even people who otherwise know what they're talking about--attribute to Hogan is at least partially due to 1) the distance his right foot is dropped back (width of stance, in other words) and 2) the resultant inward angle of the right leg at the top. But as you say, and as I've always thought, functionally speaking it is _not_ a reverse pivot.