Congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, impost duties and excises. To regulate commerce with foreign nations.
Have you ever closely examined the 1040 instruction book? It says that you must report income from foreign sources. Look in the index on the very last page of the 2008 edition. U.S. citizens and residents living abroad. it's the only entry for citizens. The index tells you who page 7 and page 20 are talking about! There are no instructions for reporting domestic income.
cancell your w4 volantart witholding agreement and they have no conection to keep your money. the tax system as is is fine just learn the scheme the irs uses. no fair tax . losthorizons
There are a dozen monumental flaws in this idiot FT scheme. Here is one. Did you know it charges the government the same high sales tax? If 23% of total sales can replace the income tax - it had to include things the gov buys, and new houses, and medical cost. How the hell can the gov pay itself taxes? They would have to raise the amount they need coming in - to pay those idiotic high sales tax thats going out.
You like the way he explains the fairtax? His math is crap, his logic is worse, and he is bullshitting you. A high national sales tax would be a disaster --how the hell do you expect people to buy new homes, when they get a 23-50% tax on that new home? Who will finance that? Even cash buyers arent going to buy new homes, if they are taxed very high on their purchase. This Fair tax idea is a house of cards, its crap, its stupid, it doesnt hold up.
This guy is terrible at explaining things, but he has a point. The Fair tax doesnt even slow down at stupid -- it goes right to insane. First - it cant be 23% -- thats absurd. It was 23% to replace JUST the income tax - but now, its morphed into replacing Income and Social Security and corporation and gift and estate taxes. Its abosolutely nutty. It would have to be 50% or more.
the 22% embedded taxes also includes compliance cost. This is not a gain to the government. Do I need to explain past this point or does this not immediately become apparent. Hope this helps.
I actually hope Huck gets in and they do this. Who will they blame if this passes -- and the economy goes in the crapper cause of a 40% sales tax on new houses? Or a 40% sales tax on cars? Or a 40% sales tax the military somehow has to pay? This idea doesnt even slow down at stupid. It goes right to insane.
Think about this. Illegal immigrants make up about 12 to 20 million people in this country. That is 4 to 6.6% of the population that is paying no income taxes. Granted there are a few out there that do, most don't. They are now paying as much, if not more taxes than the average citizen and not collecting rebates. Also, all of the country's tourists are now helping to pay taxes. I don't know exact numbers but those two groups are helping neutralize our tax burden.
Remember that the other taxes that you currently have taken out at the register are for state and local funding... so part of the $37K goes to the state and local government. The original $21K that you would have in taxes, assuming you DID spend all $100K would be revenue neutral.
Well from viewing your Subscriptions your a Liberal, so no matter what he says your going to complain... You have no idea what your talking about, do some more research.
What? I like Huckabee, he's in my top 5 candidates of both parties right now. I think a flat tax would be a good idea. I'm not so sure about the FairTax, for many reasons not addressed in this video as well. I simply had a question. And I read the FairTax book. So this is an honest question.
I did. I also posted something in reply that was quite general. Obviously there is something wrong with my analysis. Although I am not sure what. I calculated they are the same at 1.2% for the income tax. Obviously wrong. Most likely the equation is spitting out the rise in prices under the FairTax for some odd reason.
Nanite1018, I'd like to see a video of your calculations with a white board or just a plain large pad of paper with your calculations writ large. Following the calculations from Mr. Huckabee and yourself could well leave the average person to just say, maybe you are right, maybe he is right. When it comes to number juggling a video is a hard method to make your point if you don't have some actual numbers to look at.
A simply answer to your question. Your not doing any math wrong. In the scenario you give you would be giving significantly less, however considering your like the average American it is fair to assume that you will spend more of the money you get from your entire check (what use to be taken out), that adds a good bit.
Answer Cont.... The large part of the "make-up" to bring in the other $17,000 is taxes being brought in on illegal immigrants, drug lords, and all other non-tax payers. They will all pay the tax just like me and you. That's easily over 30 Million people. It will add up quick and most economist say the Fair Tax would actually pull in more money than the current Tax System. I know the math can get a little bit confusing, but it's not anywhere as confusing as our current Tax structure.
Comment: I once met a Republican politition stating that he would shrink the size of the tax code from a 50 foot wide book, to the size of a comic book.
When I see someone slip an elephant through the eye of a needle, I may beleive that it is possible to shrink the tax codes.
I would also look further into the embedded taxes, instead of making assumptions, and then assuming those assumptions hold true accross a 8 trillion dollar economy.
If you want an example of how soundly the Fair Tax can help a nation's economy, you need look no further than Ireland. Ireland is kicking the arse of the rest of the EU, and a Fair Tax in Ireland is a large component of Irelands success, along with a bold attitude of freedom and courage.
They're corporate taxes and such things. I understand that. What I don't understand is how the FairTax makes up for my money. It doesn't matter what the current tax rate is, nor does it matter what I earn. I'll always be paying less under the FairTax than now. The only explanation is that the FairTax casts a vastly larger net of taxation than our current tax code does. It would have to have a 50% larger tax base than our current system, in order to make up for the loss I pointed out in my video.
x dollars. y percent income tax. 22% embedded. Spend all money in all situations. Revenue for government now: .22(x-(xy/100))+xy/100. Under the FairTax: .23x Now, the point at which these two are = is .88xy=x Or basically, when y=1.2 or so. Sorry, but the income tax rate never equals 1.2%.
Seriously though, it would be less money. But did you know income tax only accounts for 30% or total revenue? If we got rid of just income tax and cut spending to 2000 levels, we would have a balanced budget... crazy huh?
One note about the 20 % tax rate assumption, it is actually lower for very wealth people now, look at Theresa Hines Kerrys disclosures when her husband ran in 2004 for the presidency. The very rich will fight this.
I read the FairTax book and that link paper cphine told me to read. It makes more sense, but I still don't really know where my math went wrong. I am giving 37600 dollars to the government now, and then only 23000. It must have something to do with the loans and debts Americans have. Generally we spend more each year than we earn, including in housing and such. OK, makes some sense now. Still, something seems a little odd, where's the other money come from? Just debts?
I think you're example of spending every penny you earn is a bit out there. Most people have some level of fiscal responsibility and would save it for retirement or invest it in the stock market.
Looking at this politically, most democrats won't tell you that giving money back to people boosts the economy, because they don't believe it. The Republicans spend so much freaking money that their conservative base doesn't agree with them much anymore.
The fact of the matter is, limiting the size of government costs less. When government costs less, we pay less. The fair tax does a few things, it forces government to get smaller and spend wisely. What it also does it put more cash into the peoples wallets, which is either saved, invested or spent. All three of these things benefit the economy, which is the best social service around. It's people driven, not government driven and the fair tax accomplishes that.
I have never read *any* claim by any person or article that says that the Fair Tax forces government to get smaller. The same goes for "spend wisely". If you have a reference for these claims I'd love to get the URL.
If you take home $100,000 a year, you may spend $20-25K in food, in which you'd get a partial rebate from the government, because food is not taxed. Commodities such as alcohol, cigarettes, or flagrant unnecessary foods, would be taxed. The same goes for goods such as TV's or furniture. The perk is, you have an extra 30-sum-thousand to spend on that kind of stuff, which in turn equals a "wash", as the governor put it.
I'd like to see some hard references here as well. In my reading about the Fair Tax I have yet to see any claims that it has any provisions to prevent prebates from being spent on alcohol, cigarettes or <drum roll please> flagrant unnecessary foods in any way shape or form. If you have a reference for this I'd love to see it, then I can start lobbying all beer, wine and tequila drinkin and cigarette smoking Americans in the effort to torpedo this Fair Tax boondoggle.
But, if you don't spend much or any of that "wash" cash, it's free money in the bank, compared to today's taxes. This is a good system; more power to the people! Money is power and those who don't believe that don't have much.
Glad the link helped a bit. We have to remember the FairTax (and our economy for that matter) aren't just static where "this plus that equals this". The FairTax increases the revenue collection base such that many can pay less...but this isn't a tax cut bill.
Plus, the prebate is an equal amount paid to everyone to cover the cost of necessities. It's beauty is that its up to US, not the government, to determine what a necesity is. You get the money, if you waste it on beer, that's your own fault. If you don't tax food, the FairTax rate on everything else goes up.
Also, forgot to mention this, your employer matches what is withdrawn from your paycheck under the current system as well, so the government gets more than your proposed 20% that you pay, because your employer pays taxes on your behalf as well.
Nanite1018, the best source of answers for Fair Tax questions is "The Fair Tax Book" by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder, who authored the fair tax bill. The tax revenues would remain neutral if not increased. Your individual situation will be offset by others who will be on the opposite spectrum. Hope this helps, and check out fairtax . org
Another key strength of the fair tax is the elimination of capital gains taxes. This will further increase investments and stimulate the economy even more.
the tax base is expanded, you bring in money from tax dodgers, illegal immigrants, foreign visitors, and the underground economy. When you expand the tax base this much it allows for lower levels of taxation, but i will say that it is a lot more complicated and thats why there is $22 million in research done by economists that gets more specific.
Is that enough to make up for the 14.6 percent difference here? I mean, this is a huge problem. Plus, FairTax would encourage a black market to develop completely outside of the normal retail market. In any case, it doesn't seem like there is a 3 or 4 trillion dollar black market we're not taxing. And that's what would be required to make up for the problem I pointed out in my video.
If you go to the FairTax website (it's dot org) and click on "about the FairTax" and then "Beyond the basics" and then the fourth position paper "what rate works" it explains the answer to your question.
Congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, impost duties and excises. To regulate commerce with foreign nations.
Have you ever closely examined the 1040 instruction book? It says that you must report income from foreign sources. Look in the index on the very last page of the 2008 edition. U.S. citizens and residents living abroad. it's the only entry for citizens. The index tells you who page 7 and page 20 are talking about! There are no instructions for reporting domestic income.
almartin77 3 years ago
cancell your w4 volantart witholding agreement and they have no conection to keep your money. the tax system as is is fine just learn the scheme the irs uses. no fair tax . losthorizons
passitkitdotcom 3 years ago
There are a dozen monumental flaws in this idiot FT scheme. Here is one. Did you know it charges the government the same high sales tax? If 23% of total sales can replace the income tax - it had to include things the gov buys, and new houses, and medical cost. How the hell can the gov pay itself taxes? They would have to raise the amount they need coming in - to pay those idiotic high sales tax thats going out.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
You like the way he explains the fairtax? His math is crap, his logic is worse, and he is bullshitting you. A high national sales tax would be a disaster --how the hell do you expect people to buy new homes, when they get a 23-50% tax on that new home? Who will finance that? Even cash buyers arent going to buy new homes, if they are taxed very high on their purchase. This Fair tax idea is a house of cards, its crap, its stupid, it doesnt hold up.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
This guy is terrible at explaining things, but he has a point. The Fair tax doesnt even slow down at stupid -- it goes right to insane. First - it cant be 23% -- thats absurd. It was 23% to replace JUST the income tax - but now, its morphed into replacing Income and Social Security and corporation and gift and estate taxes. Its abosolutely nutty. It would have to be 50% or more.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
the 22% embedded taxes also includes compliance cost. This is not a gain to the government. Do I need to explain past this point or does this not immediately become apparent. Hope this helps.
Bpack9381 4 years ago
You have no idea what your talking about. Why would you spend 100% of your money. I guess you don't know how to save, or pay bills.
ShaunJohnson1982 4 years ago
You're an idiot. 20% Income tax, plua 15% Social Security, 2.5% Medicare/Medicade tax.
You Bozos in America don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about when it comes to taxes.
Nothing like leading the flock of sheep to be sheered.
One other thing. Corporations don't pay taxes. Consumers pay taxes by increased taxes.
Eye Rolls
ILuvUMan7 4 years ago
I actually hope Huck gets in and they do this. Who will they blame if this passes -- and the economy goes in the crapper cause of a 40% sales tax on new houses? Or a 40% sales tax on cars? Or a 40% sales tax the military somehow has to pay? This idea doesnt even slow down at stupid. It goes right to insane.
MarkDouglasC 4 years ago
Change needs to happen! this sounds like a good idea!
ratedrica 4 years ago
Ron Paul is the answer.
ZeNiteOwl 4 years ago
What is to stop people from just buying everything online to avoid the national sales tax...
presidentialpolls 4 years ago
Good, then maybe Presidents want have billions to blow on things like WAR for their own agendas, maybe only millions.
chrisrobha 4 years ago
Think about this. Illegal immigrants make up about 12 to 20 million people in this country. That is 4 to 6.6% of the population that is paying no income taxes. Granted there are a few out there that do, most don't. They are now paying as much, if not more taxes than the average citizen and not collecting rebates. Also, all of the country's tourists are now helping to pay taxes. I don't know exact numbers but those two groups are helping neutralize our tax burden.
AtariPixel 4 years ago
Remember that the other taxes that you currently have taken out at the register are for state and local funding... so part of the $37K goes to the state and local government. The original $21K that you would have in taxes, assuming you DID spend all $100K would be revenue neutral.
Eisenmond 4 years ago
Well from viewing your Subscriptions your a Liberal, so no matter what he says your going to complain... You have no idea what your talking about, do some more research.
bbbbbb33 4 years ago
What? I like Huckabee, he's in my top 5 candidates of both parties right now. I think a flat tax would be a good idea. I'm not so sure about the FairTax, for many reasons not addressed in this video as well. I simply had a question. And I read the FairTax book. So this is an honest question.
nanite1018 4 years ago
I did. I also posted something in reply that was quite general. Obviously there is something wrong with my analysis. Although I am not sure what. I calculated they are the same at 1.2% for the income tax. Obviously wrong. Most likely the equation is spitting out the rise in prices under the FairTax for some odd reason.
nanite1018 4 years ago
Nanite1018, I'd like to see a video of your calculations with a white board or just a plain large pad of paper with your calculations writ large. Following the calculations from Mr. Huckabee and yourself could well leave the average person to just say, maybe you are right, maybe he is right. When it comes to number juggling a video is a hard method to make your point if you don't have some actual numbers to look at.
cyrano3000 4 years ago
A simply answer to your question. Your not doing any math wrong. In the scenario you give you would be giving significantly less, however considering your like the average American it is fair to assume that you will spend more of the money you get from your entire check (what use to be taken out), that adds a good bit.
bridgeproductions 4 years ago
Answer Cont.... The large part of the "make-up" to bring in the other $17,000 is taxes being brought in on illegal immigrants, drug lords, and all other non-tax payers. They will all pay the tax just like me and you. That's easily over 30 Million people. It will add up quick and most economist say the Fair Tax would actually pull in more money than the current Tax System. I know the math can get a little bit confusing, but it's not anywhere as confusing as our current Tax structure.
bridgeproductions 4 years ago
Comment: I once met a Republican politition stating that he would shrink the size of the tax code from a 50 foot wide book, to the size of a comic book.
When I see someone slip an elephant through the eye of a needle, I may beleive that it is possible to shrink the tax codes.
ondlevel 4 years ago
I would also look further into the embedded taxes, instead of making assumptions, and then assuming those assumptions hold true accross a 8 trillion dollar economy.
If you want an example of how soundly the Fair Tax can help a nation's economy, you need look no further than Ireland. Ireland is kicking the arse of the rest of the EU, and a Fair Tax in Ireland is a large component of Irelands success, along with a bold attitude of freedom and courage.
benjonesweasel 4 years ago
They're corporate taxes and such things. I understand that. What I don't understand is how the FairTax makes up for my money. It doesn't matter what the current tax rate is, nor does it matter what I earn. I'll always be paying less under the FairTax than now. The only explanation is that the FairTax casts a vastly larger net of taxation than our current tax code does. It would have to have a 50% larger tax base than our current system, in order to make up for the loss I pointed out in my video.
nanite1018 4 years ago
your math only accounts for one type of income (100K), which by the way, they take more than 20%.
travisestes 4 years ago
x dollars. y percent income tax. 22% embedded. Spend all money in all situations. Revenue for government now: .22(x-(xy/100))+xy/100. Under the FairTax: .23x Now, the point at which these two are = is .88xy=x Or basically, when y=1.2 or so. Sorry, but the income tax rate never equals 1.2%.
nanite1018 4 years ago
i does if you're really poor or a student ;b
travisestes 4 years ago
Seriously though, it would be less money. But did you know income tax only accounts for 30% or total revenue? If we got rid of just income tax and cut spending to 2000 levels, we would have a balanced budget... crazy huh?
travisestes 4 years ago
Where do you come up with your assumptions?
One note about the 20 % tax rate assumption, it is actually lower for very wealth people now, look at Theresa Hines Kerrys disclosures when her husband ran in 2004 for the presidency. The very rich will fight this.
benjonesweasel 4 years ago
I read the FairTax book and that link paper cphine told me to read. It makes more sense, but I still don't really know where my math went wrong. I am giving 37600 dollars to the government now, and then only 23000. It must have something to do with the loans and debts Americans have. Generally we spend more each year than we earn, including in housing and such. OK, makes some sense now. Still, something seems a little odd, where's the other money come from? Just debts?
nanite1018 4 years ago
I think you're example of spending every penny you earn is a bit out there. Most people have some level of fiscal responsibility and would save it for retirement or invest it in the stock market.
Looking at this politically, most democrats won't tell you that giving money back to people boosts the economy, because they don't believe it. The Republicans spend so much freaking money that their conservative base doesn't agree with them much anymore.
optweb2k 4 years ago
The fact of the matter is, limiting the size of government costs less. When government costs less, we pay less. The fair tax does a few things, it forces government to get smaller and spend wisely. What it also does it put more cash into the peoples wallets, which is either saved, invested or spent. All three of these things benefit the economy, which is the best social service around. It's people driven, not government driven and the fair tax accomplishes that.
optweb2k 4 years ago
I have never read *any* claim by any person or article that says that the Fair Tax forces government to get smaller. The same goes for "spend wisely". If you have a reference for these claims I'd love to get the URL.
cyrano3000 4 years ago
If you take home $100,000 a year, you may spend $20-25K in food, in which you'd get a partial rebate from the government, because food is not taxed. Commodities such as alcohol, cigarettes, or flagrant unnecessary foods, would be taxed. The same goes for goods such as TV's or furniture. The perk is, you have an extra 30-sum-thousand to spend on that kind of stuff, which in turn equals a "wash", as the governor put it.
optweb2k 4 years ago
I'd like to see some hard references here as well. In my reading about the Fair Tax I have yet to see any claims that it has any provisions to prevent prebates from being spent on alcohol, cigarettes or <drum roll please> flagrant unnecessary foods in any way shape or form. If you have a reference for this I'd love to see it, then I can start lobbying all beer, wine and tequila drinkin and cigarette smoking Americans in the effort to torpedo this Fair Tax boondoggle.
cyrano3000 4 years ago
But, if you don't spend much or any of that "wash" cash, it's free money in the bank, compared to today's taxes. This is a good system; more power to the people! Money is power and those who don't believe that don't have much.
Hope that helps!
optweb2k 4 years ago
Glad the link helped a bit. We have to remember the FairTax (and our economy for that matter) aren't just static where "this plus that equals this". The FairTax increases the revenue collection base such that many can pay less...but this isn't a tax cut bill.
cphine 4 years ago
Plus, the prebate is an equal amount paid to everyone to cover the cost of necessities. It's beauty is that its up to US, not the government, to determine what a necesity is. You get the money, if you waste it on beer, that's your own fault. If you don't tax food, the FairTax rate on everything else goes up.
cphine 4 years ago
Also, forgot to mention this, your employer matches what is withdrawn from your paycheck under the current system as well, so the government gets more than your proposed 20% that you pay, because your employer pays taxes on your behalf as well.
atrain3067 4 years ago
Nanite1018, the best source of answers for Fair Tax questions is "The Fair Tax Book" by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder, who authored the fair tax bill. The tax revenues would remain neutral if not increased. Your individual situation will be offset by others who will be on the opposite spectrum. Hope this helps, and check out fairtax . org
atrain3067 4 years ago
Another key strength of the fair tax is the elimination of capital gains taxes. This will further increase investments and stimulate the economy even more.
csesilver2 4 years ago
the tax base is expanded, you bring in money from tax dodgers, illegal immigrants, foreign visitors, and the underground economy. When you expand the tax base this much it allows for lower levels of taxation, but i will say that it is a lot more complicated and thats why there is $22 million in research done by economists that gets more specific.
noth98 4 years ago
Is that enough to make up for the 14.6 percent difference here? I mean, this is a huge problem. Plus, FairTax would encourage a black market to develop completely outside of the normal retail market. In any case, it doesn't seem like there is a 3 or 4 trillion dollar black market we're not taxing. And that's what would be required to make up for the problem I pointed out in my video.
nanite1018 4 years ago
If you go to the FairTax website (it's dot org) and click on "about the FairTax" and then "Beyond the basics" and then the fourth position paper "what rate works" it explains the answer to your question.
cphine 4 years ago