Balogna! On some premises he is right, but in the big picture he is completely flawed in his explanation. Certainly, God does not owe anyone anything, but He has offered salvation through repentance and faith. People such as this man somehow think that to give man the opportunity to make a choice, they somehow take away from the supreme sovereignty and authority of God. God has offered salvation to mankind on HIS terms which are repentance and faith as preached by Paul in Acts 20:21
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
Not, "why doesn't God save everybody" but "Why does God save anybody"? Is that right? Your bible teaches that "God" commanded genocide, murder of children, flooded the whole earth and killed almost everyone. All for "God's Glory", right? By torturing people in hell forever? You are a vicious and ignorant moron who should take responsibility for the evil, evil words you speak. Quoting the bible does not get you off the hook. You are just as sociopathic as the vicious "God" you follow
The reason God doesn't save everyone is because not everyone chooses to be saved. Heb. 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL them that obey him. 2 Peter 3:9 tells us that God is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. The only problem is that man has a free will and many more choose to love the world or false doctrine rather than Christ. Rom 8:29 tells us God knows ahead of time who will choose to obey and who will not
there is no percentage involved. the Bible says everyone who receives Jesus Christ as their lord and savior will be saved. we cannot see them now. but they will be revealed when Christ comes.
@mathai11 This is the problem -- the bible does not say this anywhere. You are a victim of hand me down lies. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom so what did Peter preach--Acts 2:38
Also read Romans 6 and many other scriptures that tell you that you must be baptized into Jesus Christ for salvation. Read the bible for yourself and do not follow someone blindly--they may just be leading you to destruction.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
wrong Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Isaiah 10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them. It doesnt mater what your conviction is, all that maters is what the bible says .
Yeah just what i was thinking, more than 50% would go against what Jesus said, "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are MANY. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW."
Many will perish and few will be saved, thats why the few are called the elect
Yeah, I would agree, God saves FEW but MANY, at the same time, but from different perspectives.
Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY."
Christs death was a ranson for MANY.
Millions of people have been saved because of Christ's ransom, which is MANY, but in comparison to the Billions of people perishing, it is FEW. Thats how God saves FEW AND MANY without contradiction between verses
@artistickman Good question. Heres my view. God is the Savior of all men through Christ, yet not all men believe in him because of their hardened hearts. Yet one day, they shall aknowledge the Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. Only Gods elect will come to true repentence and believe in Jesus; in this God is especially the Savior of those who believe in saving them from his wrath. So in this God is Savior of all people but he only saves those who believe in Christ.
@lwc1975 Thanks for the reply. I still don't see how he can be the "savior" of those that are never "saved." What about 1 Cor. 15:22 "as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." Seems to me God's not giving up on anyone. In the end ALL will "bow and confess" and be saved; at least all those who died in Adam.
@artistickman Well theres a huge problem with that if you take that stance in interpreting that verse with verses like this from ephesians 5: 6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these thing the wrath of God comes upon(Q) the sons of disobedience." The Bible makes it clear that there is a place of eternal joy with God and a place of eternal wrath all over (Romans 1:18-21, 9, Ephesians 5:3-6, mark 13:47-50, john 3:18, matthew 25:31-46...)
@artistickman Heres what how i take the verse. Im going to hinge on a dual understanding death. Spiritual death and physical death. The fall brought immediate spiritual death to adam as well as evident literal death as well as all who are in adam. Being in adam we are born to die, just as well we are born dead in our trespasses and sins. But God made his children alive in Christ, so they are spirtually alive, and though they die all shall be resurrected to new life.
@artistickman I enterpret that verse as this. When adam sinned, spiritual death came and with it, literal death. Everyone is born spirtually dead in their sins and will one day die. But God in his mercy, makes his children alive in Christ when they are born again, and though they will die, all of those in Christ will be resurrected to new life for all eternity
Sorry for the space, last comment... I would never believe calvinism ( it doesn't seem to make philosophical sense) except that scripture all over affirms man's choice and resposibility, the free invitation of the gospel of mercy to all men, AND Divine Sovereignty, a God who can choose to love some savingly, for no reason of their lineage, works, or ability to choose, but who adopts men into His family, Sanctifies them in their lives, and initially opened their eyes to see him out of grace.
Now, who is saved? Those who believe. Who believes? Those who God the Father, out of free and unconstrained love, chose before the foundations of the world (Eph. 1:4), predestined to adoption (5), and redeemed by his blood (7). One of your objections to predestination is that it makes God unloving. But God's deepest love is revealed not in a relationship in which we do our part, and he does his, but when he chooses to save us for nothing of ourselves, as scripture shows, but of grace alone
The problem is that people go to hell for their sins. It becomes evident when they die that there remains a debt of death to be paid, and they end up bearing the wrath of God for their sins. if you have faith in Jesus, as i believe from your comments you do, then your sins are paid for by Jesus. When he died, he did something for you that the impenitent sinner must do for himself; pay for sin. Jesus did it at one time on a cross; those who do not believe will do it for eternity in hell.
The reason i pose this question is that when we get into the details of what is happening in salvation, we run into problems if Jesus accomplished the exact same thing for all men. Yes he invites all men to be saved. But, as you have said, the wages of sin is death, and the Father poured out his wrathful anger for your sins on Jesus, so that your debt is canceled. But why then, if Jesus took the wrath for someone who ends up rejecting him, is that man sent to hell?
Great sermon, I agree except for your conviction that 50% or more will be saved.
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
to be honest with you i dont think even 5% of people will be saved... looking at Sodom and Gomorrah and Noah and the flood... we learn the only the righteous people are saved... VERY FEW... thats why we need to REEEEEAlly step up to be saved... its not just about going to church... but it is about being EXTREMELY in love with Jesus, being babtized and receiving the Holy Spirit... but something we tend to forget is we need to have saved people as well...Gaining souls is our job...
i appreciate your input... but i dont agree... if that was the case we wouldnt have free will.. and we wouldnt have a bible to give us instructions... just like stubborn ppl that have maps available but just choose not to use them... if you really think about it... Jesus would have never died for us if that was the case and there wouldnt have been a Jesus to beggin with. He woulda just picked and chosen. that theory has WAY too many holes in it. we have the choice to be saved.
@Ritsaart ... so you're telling me right now... that i dont have a choice to do anything... and that everything i do is what God wants me to do? cuz im really not understanding your theory right now... if we dont have free will then that makes God both good and evil... because that means He makes evil ppl be evil... thats not my God... maybe yours... but not mine...
God is all-knowing. God created adam and Eve with free will but when original sin came in we were unable to love God. Man are born God haters. We cannot accept the Gospel without God changing our hearts first. He knew who He would change and who He wold justify before the foundation of the world because He is absolutely souvereign (predestination).
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
@Ritsaart... so are you going to heaven ritsaart? where do you check if you're saved? or better yet... if your God.. decided for you to be saved... because he doesnt give anybody a chance unless he pre chooses them according to your theory... you are bringing up verses that YOU have interpreted in that way... you're not even a Christian are you? because your theory has a lot of wholes... and when i say a lot.. i mean A LOT... not being mean but your really need to read the rest of the bible
My theory has no holes. It is called scripture. And if you want to know I am a calvinist.
There are lots of ways in scripture to chck if you are saved. 1 John has some tests. I know I am saved because the Holy Spirit dwells within me. I will never be lost because God preserves me for Heaven. My name is written in the book of the Lamb.
Feeren, Have you ever read John 6, Romans 8 and 9? That is the bible. Tell me the holes in scripture. You have given me zero arguments against with scripture.
@Ritsaart... your a Calvinist... now i understand why you're speaking like this... to be honest with you... God Himself as my witness... no lies.. i dont want to type up or copy and paste the whole Bible on here... thats why i have not used scripture... ill tell you what though.. i respect your theology choice... but it just seems like you want to argue about this... so i will make a vid as soon as i get a chance... for now lets agree to disagree.. deal?
@Ritsaart... the way you see predestination is completely different than i see it... you see it as before we were born.. God said... you go to hell... you go to hell... you go to heaven.. you hell, you hell.. and so on... Him being a jerk!... predestination for us is a little different... He gave us free will to choose Him or Satan. thats why He died for us... other than that there would be no need to die for our sins if ppl could not be saved unless God pre picked them...
No He is not a jerk. Man has sinned against God. All are of the seed of Adam so we are all dead in sin. But for His own Glory He sends His Son to die for His people. If God is all-knowing He would surely know if you are going to chose Him or not by your claims. I am not saying you can chose God but you are saying you can. This is against scripture. If you would read John 6 in entirely you will see that God choses who will come to Christ. God is absolutely souvereign.
@Ritsaart... that would defeat the whole purpose of the Bible.. the way i see predestination doesnt have to do with the ending outcome... but here on earth sometimes... not God moving us like pawns... but sometimes steps in and stops us from doing stupid things that otherwise would lead us directly into death... you say you're saved. so in your theory you were predestined to be saved and go to heaven... well what about God hating sin... are you perfect? then were you really predestined?
So God does not know the outcome? Then why are there so many prophecies who He cannot know if that come out or not.
I believe in a different ''free-will'' than you. Sure we can sin. But in the end the Holy Spirit will overcome. The fact is, God already knew which sins we are going to do before we know it.
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
3) if you were predestined and chosen by God to go to heaven... then you would be superior to all of us that want to gain our salvation.. so then you being predestined would not sin... ever... because God hates sin... and you are predestined to go to heaven and be with God forever... right?... because according to my Bible the wages of sin is Death... and God is not Death but Life... sooo... then you and all other predestined ppl are just like Jesus.. Perfect. Cuz Jesus was predestined. right?
Again, sinning is still possible and based on your will. However, the will is not completely free because God knows the outcome and because He made you and He is souvereign He also predestined you to make a certain choice. Our fless still battles the Spirit but because God chose you is going to get you no matter what.
Here you have the problem: you say I am superior to ''all of you'' who want to GAIN (!!) salvation. You cannot earn it, brother. It is a gift from God.
So how do you gain salvation? Not by YOUR will but by God's will. You have not been saved by your own will but by God's grace. That is a fact.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
You cannot be saved by works or your own will to be saved. It is His grace only. And for His own Glory only.
@Ritsaart i dont think i ever said you gain your salvation from works of course... i see what you are saying... i know He is all knowing but for him to CHOOSE and use mankind as pawns... contradicts him being love... and contradicts Jesus dying for our sins to have the choice to be saved.. because before... if you werent a jew.. too bad.. yes it is by His grace! thats why we have the opportunity. to see predestination in that way would be almost as if God wrote a screen play...
and we have no relationship what so ever... though thats what we are taught by the word... to have a relationship with God. you cant have a relationship if you have no choice what so ever... in that interpretation of predestination would make Him a jerk... whether we want it or not.. that would make him evil and good. because he would choose ppl to suffer in hell for eternity... no disrespect whatsoever.. i really appreciate your input. i really do.. please adress my comments...
The problem is. It does not matter what you think about God. He is how He is. You have not given me 1 scripture which supports you opinion.
I know what you are going through. A lot of Christians strugle with this. The bible is not about man it is about God. God's will is the only one that counts not the one of man.
You say we all have a choice to chose christ. Read John 6. We were all dead in sin. We all deserve hell but for His own glory He chose to show mercy towards mankind.
We are saved by grace alone. We cannot gain salvation. It was predestined.
How can we chose Jesus if we hate God. All men are born totally depraved. We are born God-haters. How can we chose Him? Only the Holy Spirit can change our hearts. So God choses if He wants to quicken your heart or not because He is in control of His own Spirit.
So does the Spirit quicken everyone's heart? Why are not all saved then? Can the grace alone save man or must we act (works) on it.
I have been reading your conversation with Ritsaart, and i can not but help joining. One of your reoccuring comments is that God's choice of man in salvation would negate the need for a savior in the first place. Now i don't know exactly where Ritsaart stands, but i want to agree with you that when Jesus Christ died he invited all to the choice of salvation. But I also want to pose this question: did Jesus accomplish anything more when he died?
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a FEW find it."
but that's the whole point. without God, you will never be motivated to be saved. man, on his own, does not seek the true God and is bondage to/loves his sin so much, he does not seek to part from it. the evidence that God has elected someone is that the heart that once hated God and felt no true repentance, now believes and is continually under the growth and conviction of the holy spirit that is inside of them. those who are elected, will believe, even if that is not at this moment.
it is controversial... because if he pre elected people for heaven... free will would be pointless... and that would mean that God is a jerk... He is not a jerk if anything He is Love.... He is so wonderful that he gives us free will for us to choose... do not lose motivation cuz of something dumb like that... If people were pre elect there would not be free will and the Bible would not teach us how to Gain Salvation... it just doesnt make sense
"At the end of time, there will be two groups of people, one standing before God's throne adoring HIm, and other standing on the parapets of hell screaming out their hatred for Him"...
AND
"God has a whole range of attributes, and He means to display them all."
Anyone who walks with God, truly, will understand that it is by grace alone that we are saved, and that is the only thing that separates us from the lost.
What kind of place would earth be if we only did that which glorified ourselves? What kind of heaven would it be if God requires continual, eternal praise, and we have to do it without even getting a break now and then? what kind of god would be helpless without continual reinforcement of his shaky ego, like a shy little kid might need from time to time? You got some real kookie ideas here.
I'm not sure how he got to that interpretation. Dr. Cairns is a very good teacher but I disagree with him on this point. Even so, the point of his answer is right-on.
@MikeyTipunama i agree, the supposition comes out of no where and contradicts scripture. if it's dr cairns claims vs jesus claims, i'm going with Jesus.
this is a useless piece of apologetics. even if parts of its are true, it fails to build up those who are suffering.
@MikeyTipunama You are right. He is wrong on that point. The majority of mankind is and forever will be lost. That being said you dont want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". He still gives a good answer.
@MikeyTipunama I agree. For Jesus Himself, the Saviour of the world, has said:
Matthew 7:13- 7:27 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
@MikeyTipunama AGREED!! Where does this guy get this 50%??? He quotes scripture, but i can't see how he can ignore the point you made which is the same how I feel about the issue.
A good book to read reguarding this subject is John Piper's book, Desiring God. It sheds a light on this that opened my eyes. I truly believe that the Holy Spirit works through John Piper in wonderful ways. Everyone should pray and plead for the passion that Piper has.
True. We have the free will to choose to sin or not to sin but we cannot confuse morality with the righteousness imputed to us by God's grace. Before we had done any good or evil, we were still seperated from God due to our nature. Read Romans 9 and then Romans 8 and then 9 again. Thanks and RSVP.
Historically what people call the five points of Calvinism are the actually The Canons of Dort. The fifth point Article 1: Article 1:
The Regenerate Not Entirely Free from Sin
Those people whom God according to his purpose calls into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord and regenerates by the Holy Spirit, he also sets free from the reign and slavery of sin, though in this life not entirely from the flesh and from the body of sin.
But please, cite some examples. SIncerely. Need to kno
You are attempting to corrupt the simplicity of Christianity through vain dissolution. Yet, I give you proof enough: Many are called, but few are chosen.
What you say is correct and can be seen way back in Genesis 4:7 with Cain "If you do well will you not be accepted...sin's desire is for you but you must rule over/master it."
Jesus says in Mathew chapter 7, verses 13 and 14 that only a few will be saved, Where does it say in scripture, as Alan says he can show, that many will be saved?
Well, Saul of Tarsus was a uniquely transformative experience to catalyze the outgrowth of Christianity beyond the Levant. These types of radical conversions from other religions (Judaism, Islam, etc.) aren't exactly inconceivable. However, you're missing the point. Saul of Tarsus, like anyone, could've CHOSEN to thwart Christ's command, remaining obstinately incompliant. Christ would've elected another soul to Christianize the heathen Gentile nations and tribes. Not everything is predetermined.
Gbd- "Saul of Tarsus was a uniquely transformative experience to catalyze the outgrowth of Christianity " that's just silly & speculation on your part. God had chosen appointed apostles he could've used instead of Saul or atleast chose another believer. He chose Saul to show us that it does'nt matter where we stand,it is HIS WILL that will be done,not ours.Each conversion is a uniquely,radical transformative experience for EACH BELIEVER that has become saved.
The reason why God only saved some people is just so he can be glorified (Romans 9:23). He damns the rest so he can show his wrath to them (Rom 9:22). The question should not be, "why doesnt God save everyone?" but it sould be, "why does God save anyone?" No one seserves the love of God. Why is God oligated to save or at least give everyone the aability to be saved? What does God owe you? He owes you nothing! Thats why he has mercy on whom he has mercy, and he hardens w.hom he hardens rom 9:18
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.
Your reasoning is auducious and ludicrous because they proceed from a heart that is void of reason and understanding,how can you know the things of God when you dont even know Him?
He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
My retorts to you have been thusfar unanswered, so you now resort to dismissing my intellect with citations? "How can you know the things of God when you don't even know Him?" - What things of God? Hell? Thusfar you have failed to show me instances where it's acknowledeged in the same book you've just quoted from. Since you want to resort to rhetoric through citations, answer this: How significant is the proclamation of an individual that they know God? Answer Matthew 7:21.
Take for example the prophet Jonah who ran from God,yet even so God's will cannot be thwarted.
For according to his great mercy he recommissioned the disobedient prophet and even used him as an example of the 3 days and 3 nights the Son of man would spend in the heart of the earth.
O so great is the goodness of God to those whom he has called and chosen.
Paul was predestined to become who he became,a bondservant of Messiah.
Not of him who wills or runs,but of GOD who shows mercy.
He says he believes 50 % of people will saved and go to heaven and he believes he can verify this scripturally, yet he stops short of stating these verses. Can anyone out there tell me where this is scripturally? I thought scripture said NARROW is the way and FEW are those who enter. Please comment.
kell- You are correct that FEW will be saved, there is no scriptural basis that show a 50% ratio. We do scripture that says 10% belong to God, 1/3 are saved, 8 souls were saved at flood, 3 spared at Sodom,and 200 million in Rev.9:16 "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them." is 200 million literal or spiritual, I'm not sure.
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9;43,49
Make no mistake hell is eternal once a man goes there,there can be no going back.
Mark the key word that is being used here 6 times,that there might be no mistakening the permanency of it.
The greek "ou" being an absolute negative proves nothing about the eternal element of hell because the word hell is erroneously translated as such; why can't you accept this? The phrases of "where the worm dieth not" & "the fire is not quenched" were the provoking of the imagery of gehenna (the valley of the Sons of Hinnom). Your claim that the occasions of "ou" denotes the permanency of hell is very audacious.
That which is flesh is flesh,and that which is spirit is spirit,it is the Spirit that gives life,the flesh ptofits nothing.
The prophet Isaiah wrote,
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. 66:24
This allusion to hell is picked up in the new testament by Yahshua to speak of eternal damnation on the part of the wicked and
"This allusion to hell..." - There is no evidence that the words of Isaiah were an allusion to hell. Gehenna (i.e. the valley of the Sons of Hinnom) - Yes; hell - No: there was no such concept recognized then.
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
My statement as to vainity and assuming to much,especially where the word of God is concerned was a general statement,more directed at the speaker who 'believes' that God will save more than 50% of mankind and yet offers no scriptural evidence.
Therefore your assumption that my remark was aimed at you was also in error.
Men offered their own children to demons in this place,which would later became associated with the place where all the wicked would suffer under the just punishmsnt of God as a result of their rebellion against the truth.
It is written,Thou art of purer eyes then to behold evil and you cannot look upon iniquity. Habakkuk 1:13
Yahshua experienced hell when he cried out"My God,my God,why hast thou forsaken me!"
Because GOD is Spirit,the absence of his Spirit is death,thus when he spoke unto Adam and his wife he said,'in the day ye eat thereof in dying you shall surely die.'
Thus the promise of eternal separation from God is hell.
Sheol is naked in his sight and abaddon/hell has no covering.
Job 26:6
They/men built the high places of tophet/place of fire,which is in the valley of the son of hinnom(from which we get
[P6a] "Yahshua experienced hell when he cried out 'My God my God why hast thou forsaken me'" - Please explain to me the logic behind your inference that Jesus experienced hell based on this quote? It seems simply ludicrous.
"Because GOD is Spirit, the absence of his Spirit is death" - Explain this one too.
It is written that the prophets of old searched their own scriptures diligently as to the time and manner the Spirit of Messiah spoke through them of his sufferings and the glory that was to follow.
If the writers of scripture wrestled with these things,how much more vain men that assume to much.
The doctrine of hell is replete throughout scripture.
It must be noted that hell not only speaks of Gods hatred of sin,but also his absence from sinners
[P3a] "The doctrine of hell is replete throughout scipture." - This statement is no different from that of Unw0rthy0fn0te who said "Jesus taught Hell". & so I will reiterate the theme of my response to his statement unto you: Can you show me an instance of the knowledge of hell in the Bible & would this instance be reliant on an english translation where the word hell is already (& erroneously) present? It is not enough to contradict what I said, with a statement of no vindicating quality.
[P4a] "It must be noted that hell not only speaks of Gods hatred of sin, but also his absence from sinners." - That was funny. As I said in my first post to you, you may be able to come up with a convenient explanation. You sure did so there. I don't know where you got that view from but the discussion of its validity can only take place after it can be established CONCLUSIVELY that hell is an acknowledged reality in the Bible; so you're jumping ahead of things aren't you?
[P5a] Since it was I who begun the discussion of hell & the latter part of your post relates to it, am I correct in assuming that the former part is an allusion to me as uttering assumptions & in vain? If I'm correct then it is a poor attempt to dismiss my discourse in favour of maintaining the belief in hell, especially when you can't seem to vindicate its biblical acknowledgement. It's like a man with his eyes closed dismissing as speculative, a seeing man's report of what he sees.
[P1a] "Hell was appointed for the devil and his angels, not for men." This is another contentious belief that quite interestingly has NO basis in the OT. In Genesis 6 the "Sons of God" appear to have been cast to the EARTH with no mention of hell. The well-known passages in Isaiah & Ezekiel that has been deemed to express the "fall" of Satan, describes him as being cast into SHEOL: hell is not mentioned.
[P2a] Now you may be able to come up with a convenient explanation as to the absence of hell in these instances concerning Satan but may I advance my suggestive explanation, in that hell was not mentioned because the Jews held to no such concept, explaining why their scriptures also contains its non-existence.
It's hard to respond, as I don't really know what you believe and what point you are trying to prove. Could you perhaps extrapolate on your personal beliefs on the issue?
You don't know what I am trying to prove? I already stated my argument in my 1st post here to dwaynesweatman1988. I said "...the existence of hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible." So why are we expressing our belief in it & telling "unbelievers" that their eternity is there, considering how grave such information is & the fact that it's not even undeniable? Isn't it then a gross evil to tell "unbelievers" this?
No Biblical scholar outside of the WAY liberal fringe would back you on your statements here. Looking at the Christian Bible as a whole, an eternal realm of punishment for the reprobate is a clear teaching. If you are asking for a clear statement that "Hell" exists in every book of the Bible in order for it to be "incontrovertibly acknowledged" then simply we do not have that, nor do we need it. The New Testament as a whole teaches the doctrine of an eternal damnation and punishment.
[P1b] "...WAY liberal fringe..." - You lost me there, but whatever you meant, I'll ask you to prove your statement. In fact let me demonstrate how futile your statement is by directing its theme to you: No MUSLIM biblical scholar would back your hold that Jesus is God &/or saves us from our sins. Would you then concede that the muslim biblical scholar is right concerning Jesus? No you would not. A scholar is not immune from error & delusion.
[P2b] "Looking at the Christian Bible as a whole, an eternal realm of punishment for the reprobate is a clear teaching." - This is getting tedious; 8Anya8 already said such a comment. I'll reiterate the same theme again: Can you show me where in the Bible & would such instances rely on an english translation where the word hell is ALREADY & ERRONEOUSLY present?
[P3b] "If you are asking for a clear statement that "Hell" exists in every book of the Bible..." - I'm not asking for it to be in every book; I'm asking: is the concept of hell (a location of perpetual torment as punishment for sins) undeniably acknowledged in the Bible? The answer is no. It is not acknowledged in neither the OT nor the NT. It seems that you can only contend with me by using an english translation.
[P3b response] You have no basis for this assertion. The Greek says the same thing, actually. If you want to contend with hundreds of translators by claiming that the numerous "Hell" references in the NT are all grossly mistranslated then that is your decision.
I have no basis for what assertion? - You've lost me. & what does the greek say that is the same? The same as what? As for your last statement, the fact that 100's of translators translated the hell in place of sheol, gehenna, hades, abadon & tartarus, does not seal the correctness of translating such words as hell. Why did these translators translate the words as hell in 1 place & the grave (or pit) in another? The latter is argubly the correct rendition.
[P2b response]Revelation 20:10-15 is a clear example; the lake of fire where the devil is tormented forever is clearly the same that the lost are thrown into, for eternal torment under the wrath of God. Jesus consistently refers to a "casting into the fire", to the place where there is "gnashing of teeth", etc. In addition, historically Christians have always believed in eternal damnation, long before the "erroneous" English translation.
The lake of fire mentioned in Revelation throws this discussion into a more complicated level. Also I wouldn't be too swift to equate the theme of fire in the phrase "lake of fire" with all other themes with the word fire. As I said to 8Anya8, some references to fire were the provoking of the imagery of the valley of the Sons of Hinnom (i.e. gehenna).
Currently & admittedly I cannot say. I do not want to give an answer simply to preserve my doubt of hell, for I am not stubborn nor I am I arguing against the existence of hell subjectively: My doubt concerning hell was only provoked recently.
Alright; well, I suppose I can understand that. Honestly though without a hell much of Christian theology means nothing; there are really only two meaningful alternatives, annihilationism and universalism. Both I think can be debunked by any meaningful study and exegesis of the Bible. If you believe that the Bible gives us a consistent theology then there are a myriad of questions you would need to answer. And if you do not believe that, then I'd rather discuss the Gospel ; )
[p1b response] Muslims have been refuted in numerous debates on that subject. Telling me that people can misinterpret the Bible in a completely different area of discussion hardly proves your point. The majority of scholars and the massive majority of theologians have ALWAYS recognized that the Bible teaches an eternal damnation.
The fact that Muslims have been refuted is actually a reiteration & support of what I said: A scholar is not immune from error. That was the point of me making the example. It was to refute your appeal to scholars as though they supercede the arguments of others purely because they are scholars. Nevertheless, it would be nice to converse with a scholar & test your claim that they always have recognized an eternal damnation.
i am leaning towards the reformed view (still studying and praying) but i'm curious as to this gentleman's opinion that more than 50% of men will be saved. doesn't the bible state that narrow is the way and few will find it? please someone give me perspective if you can :)
2 samuel 12:23. If this is saying infants and children who die young are saved, I could see a majority in heaven. Are zygotes in cyrogenic chambers included also?
the Bible does not tell us with clarity whether or not infants are saved; all though it seems consistent with His character to do so. However, He certainly isn't obligated to do so, as we know that infants too are evil, according to the book of Psalms. Rather than debate it it seems better to me to put that in God's hands and trust Him to do what is right.
There's a joke about the luck of the Irish... a guy step in a pile of sh#t and said I'm lucky I didn't have my new shoes .. . Just change lucky to miracle. He apparently can get away with the very minimum .The bible does say he took a day off .
But I agree with you, Dr. Cairns. It is incredible amazing grace that God should save one. God's glory in His grace is incredible beyond all praise. Amazing grace... how sweet the sound.
I can see and feel and taste the Glory of Heaven... right now. Grace and peace to you. Laura
The WORD is true. Isaiah 51: 11 The ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.
1 Timothy 2:6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL men - and ALL the ransomed of the Lord shall return and enter ZION. Time of punishment misunderstood
I reckon God only saves people who are worth it i.e. people who are poor, retarded or black are most likely going to hell. God wants Doctors, Lawyers, and business men in heaven with him - after all that would be good business sense.
I think maybe there should be like a draft or something. God and Jesus both get their own franchise and get to pick guys. Jesus - being the young kid - would be more edgey with his picks i.e. Michael Jackson is going with JC, while Ed McMahon is God's first pick!
Thats your problem, you have decided to believe in a God you "prefer". That's not how salvation works, God is Lord, and God actually saves who his wishes for the praise of his Grace, b/c all have sinned and DESERVE hell. If God saved no one he would be Just.
So what, aTrueHybrid, you would rather believe in a God who "loves" people he is going to eternally burn in hell fire in his WRATH? What kind of Love is that?
"b/c all have sinned and DESERVE hell" - Isn't it amazing how most of Christendom believes in hell & warns unbelievers that its abode is our deserved destination as punishment for our sins. It's amazing because the existence of hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible. A location of perpertual torment as punishment for sins? What about the parable of Lazarus & the rich man? It is certainly more congruent to the Jewish concept of sheol, not hell - an erroneous english translation.
[P1] Did you actually appreciate my post? I said hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible (i.e. the knowledge of its concept in the Bible is not undeniable). "Jesus taught hell" - Did he? Can you show me where he did so & would your proof be restricted to an english translation where the word hell is already (& erroneously) present?
[P2] "Most of our doctrine on Hell comes from His sermons." - Yes, but this does not necessarily mean that his sermons contained any expression of the doctrine. For example, most of Christendom would cite excerpts of Mark 13/Matt 24/Luke 21 when expounding on the 2nd coming of Christ & The Tribulation. However, the passages express no such events - they are erroneous interpretations. Those passages were a prophecy pertaining to the destruction of Jerusalem, & hence have been fulfilled.
[P3] The words of "This generation shall not pass till ALL these things be fulfilled" are a serious blow to the interpretation of the 2nd coming of Christ/Tribulation events that present Christendom believes is yet to happen. The promise that the contemporaneous peoples would witness the events is confirmed in Matt 26:64, where Jesus promised the high priest that even he would see the Son of man sit on the right hand of power, coming in the clouds of heaven (see 24:30).
[P4] So please show me an instance where Jesus taught of a location where "unbelievers" would be tormented perpetually as the punishment for their sins?
I acknowledge the fact that based on the OT alone there is very little to be said of the afterlife at all; indeed, throughout history different Jews took different stances on the issue, although at the time of Jesus almost unanimously the Jews believed in an afterlife. When I said Hell I was referring to the "lake of fire", not the OT correct usage of the word. My point was that Jesus taught that there was an afterlife punishment for the reprobate that was eternal.
I would have to disagree with this man's opinion about the majority of people being saved, the Bible says in Matthew 7:14 that few will find salvation.
If you were told you were going to have 6 children and 5 were going to hell, would you still have the children?
According to this absurd doctrine of eternal damnation thats about the % of the population going there and God foreknew it.You honestly think this is Gods will?
Balogna! On some premises he is right, but in the big picture he is completely flawed in his explanation. Certainly, God does not owe anyone anything, but He has offered salvation through repentance and faith. People such as this man somehow think that to give man the opportunity to make a choice, they somehow take away from the supreme sovereignty and authority of God. God has offered salvation to mankind on HIS terms which are repentance and faith as preached by Paul in Acts 20:21
jasonrichardsykes 4 months ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 5 months ago
I like allot of what he says and agree with much of it but I question his view on this; So then what does "many are called but few are chosen" mean?
1NationUnder1God3in1 6 months ago
Wishful thinking but it is not scriptural. Millions in the old testament & God saved 144,000 !! Remember these scriptures?
Matthew 7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets..
People choose the easy way & follow the crowd that have all been lied to.
wilby1414 6 months ago
Not, "why doesn't God save everybody" but "Why does God save anybody"? Is that right? Your bible teaches that "God" commanded genocide, murder of children, flooded the whole earth and killed almost everyone. All for "God's Glory", right? By torturing people in hell forever? You are a vicious and ignorant moron who should take responsibility for the evil, evil words you speak. Quoting the bible does not get you off the hook. You are just as sociopathic as the vicious "God" you follow
jmbates5179 6 months ago
The reason that God doesn't save everybody is the same reason that Darth Vader doesn't work at my local gas station
leej70 8 months ago
Why do you believe in angels? Do you have any evidence besides the Bible that angels exist?
SamWiseGingy 9 months ago
The reason God doesn't save everyone is because not everyone chooses to be saved. Heb. 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL them that obey him. 2 Peter 3:9 tells us that God is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. The only problem is that man has a free will and many more choose to love the world or false doctrine rather than Christ. Rom 8:29 tells us God knows ahead of time who will choose to obey and who will not
horseman528 11 months ago
there is no percentage involved. the Bible says everyone who receives Jesus Christ as their lord and savior will be saved. we cannot see them now. but they will be revealed when Christ comes.
mathai11 11 months ago
@mathai11 This is the problem -- the bible does not say this anywhere. You are a victim of hand me down lies. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom so what did Peter preach--Acts 2:38
Also read Romans 6 and many other scriptures that tell you that you must be baptized into Jesus Christ for salvation. Read the bible for yourself and do not follow someone blindly--they may just be leading you to destruction.
Good-Luck!
wilby1414 6 months ago
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@mathai11
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. matt 7 v14
Yeeeooo000 3 months ago
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
This is a very good and solidly Biblical answer.
Tyronethe24th 1 year ago
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If anyone sees this comment and loves Jesus
then can you please pray for me ?
can you pray that God will save me from ALL confusion and bless me with wisdom, purpose, and salvation or assurance
my name is David
I also fill depressed tired and worthless all the time
can someone pray for God to give me energy
I fill like God might not hear me when I pray so I'm trying to get as many people to pray for me, hoping that he might hear one of you guys
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
I really want to see your proof from the scripture. I believe in Jesus Christ and this is what I believe:
Jesus Christ (Matt 19:17): If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.
John 14:15 If you love me keep my commandments.
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD.
If you want to know the true Jesus Christ, see my video: A Message to Christians-Jesus Christ first Miracle
helasmoh 1 year ago
wrong Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Isaiah 10:19 And the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them. It doesnt mater what your conviction is, all that maters is what the bible says .
1onlineeagle 1 year ago
agreed :), but over 50%?
why does he believe over 50% will be saved? where is his support?
ReformedTheology5 1 year ago
Yeah just what i was thinking, more than 50% would go against what Jesus said, "Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are MANY. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are FEW."
Many will perish and few will be saved, thats why the few are called the elect
lwc1975 1 year ago
lwc1975 i wonder cuz ..
God saves FEW. but MANY. not a contradiction.
search it. maybe depends compared to WHAT...overall MANY? MANY in what sense?
ReformedTheology5 1 year ago
Yeah, I would agree, God saves FEW but MANY, at the same time, but from different perspectives.
Mark 10:45 "For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for MANY."
Christs death was a ranson for MANY.
Millions of people have been saved because of Christ's ransom, which is MANY, but in comparison to the Billions of people perishing, it is FEW. Thats how God saves FEW AND MANY without contradiction between verses
lwc1975 1 year ago
@lwc1975 Please help me to understand 1 Tim 4:10...who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe." Is God not the saviour of ALL men?
artistickman 1 year ago
@artistickman Good question. Heres my view. God is the Savior of all men through Christ, yet not all men believe in him because of their hardened hearts. Yet one day, they shall aknowledge the Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. Only Gods elect will come to true repentence and believe in Jesus; in this God is especially the Savior of those who believe in saving them from his wrath. So in this God is Savior of all people but he only saves those who believe in Christ.
lwc1975 1 year ago
@lwc1975 Thanks for the reply. I still don't see how he can be the "savior" of those that are never "saved." What about 1 Cor. 15:22 "as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." Seems to me God's not giving up on anyone. In the end ALL will "bow and confess" and be saved; at least all those who died in Adam.
artistickman 1 year ago
@artistickman Well theres a huge problem with that if you take that stance in interpreting that verse with verses like this from ephesians 5: 6 "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these thing the wrath of God comes upon(Q) the sons of disobedience." The Bible makes it clear that there is a place of eternal joy with God and a place of eternal wrath all over (Romans 1:18-21, 9, Ephesians 5:3-6, mark 13:47-50, john 3:18, matthew 25:31-46...)
lwc1975 1 year ago
@artistickman Heres what how i take the verse. Im going to hinge on a dual understanding death. Spiritual death and physical death. The fall brought immediate spiritual death to adam as well as evident literal death as well as all who are in adam. Being in adam we are born to die, just as well we are born dead in our trespasses and sins. But God made his children alive in Christ, so they are spirtually alive, and though they die all shall be resurrected to new life.
lwc1975 1 year ago
@artistickman I enterpret that verse as this. When adam sinned, spiritual death came and with it, literal death. Everyone is born spirtually dead in their sins and will one day die. But God in his mercy, makes his children alive in Christ when they are born again, and though they will die, all of those in Christ will be resurrected to new life for all eternity
lwc1975 1 year ago
oh, and comments appreciated, especially feedback from feeren1909
squareman777 2 years ago
Pt5
Sorry for the space, last comment... I would never believe calvinism ( it doesn't seem to make philosophical sense) except that scripture all over affirms man's choice and resposibility, the free invitation of the gospel of mercy to all men, AND Divine Sovereignty, a God who can choose to love some savingly, for no reason of their lineage, works, or ability to choose, but who adopts men into His family, Sanctifies them in their lives, and initially opened their eyes to see him out of grace.
squareman777 2 years ago
Pt. 4
Now, who is saved? Those who believe. Who believes? Those who God the Father, out of free and unconstrained love, chose before the foundations of the world (Eph. 1:4), predestined to adoption (5), and redeemed by his blood (7). One of your objections to predestination is that it makes God unloving. But God's deepest love is revealed not in a relationship in which we do our part, and he does his, but when he chooses to save us for nothing of ourselves, as scripture shows, but of grace alone
squareman777 2 years ago
Pt.3
The problem is that people go to hell for their sins. It becomes evident when they die that there remains a debt of death to be paid, and they end up bearing the wrath of God for their sins. if you have faith in Jesus, as i believe from your comments you do, then your sins are paid for by Jesus. When he died, he did something for you that the impenitent sinner must do for himself; pay for sin. Jesus did it at one time on a cross; those who do not believe will do it for eternity in hell.
squareman777 2 years ago
Pt2
The reason i pose this question is that when we get into the details of what is happening in salvation, we run into problems if Jesus accomplished the exact same thing for all men. Yes he invites all men to be saved. But, as you have said, the wages of sin is death, and the Father poured out his wrathful anger for your sins on Jesus, so that your debt is canceled. But why then, if Jesus took the wrath for someone who ends up rejecting him, is that man sent to hell?
squareman777 2 years ago
Great sermon, I agree except for your conviction that 50% or more will be saved.
13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.
Matt 7:13-14 (ASV)
I consider you to be a brother and enjoy most of your sermons. :)
yendelwendal 2 years ago
to be honest with you i dont think even 5% of people will be saved... looking at Sodom and Gomorrah and Noah and the flood... we learn the only the righteous people are saved... VERY FEW... thats why we need to REEEEEAlly step up to be saved... its not just about going to church... but it is about being EXTREMELY in love with Jesus, being babtized and receiving the Holy Spirit... but something we tend to forget is we need to have saved people as well...Gaining souls is our job...
feeren1909 2 years ago
It is all up to God. We don't gain souls, God does.
If God choses 50%, That is how it will be. If He choses that only 1% will be saved, it will be that way.
So ''we need to do this or that'' is irrelevant. God predestines. The bible says few will find it. It never says very few.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart
i appreciate your input... but i dont agree... if that was the case we wouldnt have free will.. and we wouldnt have a bible to give us instructions... just like stubborn ppl that have maps available but just choose not to use them... if you really think about it... Jesus would have never died for us if that was the case and there wouldnt have been a Jesus to beggin with. He woulda just picked and chosen. that theory has WAY too many holes in it. we have the choice to be saved.
feeren1909 2 years ago
NO.
We don't have free will. Only (IMO) Adam and Eve had and then the brought in sin into mankind. So now we are enslaved to sin. We have no free will.
You have been saved by the work of the Holy Spirit in your heart not because you were more sensitive.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ritsaart
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart ... so you're telling me right now... that i dont have a choice to do anything... and that everything i do is what God wants me to do? cuz im really not understanding your theory right now... if we dont have free will then that makes God both good and evil... because that means He makes evil ppl be evil... thats not my God... maybe yours... but not mine...
feeren1909 2 years ago
God is all-knowing. God created adam and Eve with free will but when original sin came in we were unable to love God. Man are born God haters. We cannot accept the Gospel without God changing our hearts first. He knew who He would change and who He wold justify before the foundation of the world because He is absolutely souvereign (predestination).
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart... so are you going to heaven ritsaart? where do you check if you're saved? or better yet... if your God.. decided for you to be saved... because he doesnt give anybody a chance unless he pre chooses them according to your theory... you are bringing up verses that YOU have interpreted in that way... you're not even a Christian are you? because your theory has a lot of wholes... and when i say a lot.. i mean A LOT... not being mean but your really need to read the rest of the bible
feeren1909 2 years ago
My theory has no holes. It is called scripture. And if you want to know I am a calvinist.
There are lots of ways in scripture to chck if you are saved. 1 John has some tests. I know I am saved because the Holy Spirit dwells within me. I will never be lost because God preserves me for Heaven. My name is written in the book of the Lamb.
Feeren, Have you ever read John 6, Romans 8 and 9? That is the bible. Tell me the holes in scripture. You have given me zero arguments against with scripture.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart... your a Calvinist... now i understand why you're speaking like this... to be honest with you... God Himself as my witness... no lies.. i dont want to type up or copy and paste the whole Bible on here... thats why i have not used scripture... ill tell you what though.. i respect your theology choice... but it just seems like you want to argue about this... so i will make a vid as soon as i get a chance... for now lets agree to disagree.. deal?
feeren1909 2 years ago
@Ritsaart... the way you see predestination is completely different than i see it... you see it as before we were born.. God said... you go to hell... you go to hell... you go to heaven.. you hell, you hell.. and so on... Him being a jerk!... predestination for us is a little different... He gave us free will to choose Him or Satan. thats why He died for us... other than that there would be no need to die for our sins if ppl could not be saved unless God pre picked them...
feeren1909 2 years ago
No He is not a jerk. Man has sinned against God. All are of the seed of Adam so we are all dead in sin. But for His own Glory He sends His Son to die for His people. If God is all-knowing He would surely know if you are going to chose Him or not by your claims. I am not saying you can chose God but you are saying you can. This is against scripture. If you would read John 6 in entirely you will see that God choses who will come to Christ. God is absolutely souvereign.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart... that would defeat the whole purpose of the Bible.. the way i see predestination doesnt have to do with the ending outcome... but here on earth sometimes... not God moving us like pawns... but sometimes steps in and stops us from doing stupid things that otherwise would lead us directly into death... you say you're saved. so in your theory you were predestined to be saved and go to heaven... well what about God hating sin... are you perfect? then were you really predestined?
feeren1909 2 years ago
So God does not know the outcome? Then why are there so many prophecies who He cannot know if that come out or not.
I believe in a different ''free-will'' than you. Sure we can sin. But in the end the Holy Spirit will overcome. The fact is, God already knew which sins we are going to do before we know it.
Luk 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
3) if you were predestined and chosen by God to go to heaven... then you would be superior to all of us that want to gain our salvation.. so then you being predestined would not sin... ever... because God hates sin... and you are predestined to go to heaven and be with God forever... right?... because according to my Bible the wages of sin is Death... and God is not Death but Life... sooo... then you and all other predestined ppl are just like Jesus.. Perfect. Cuz Jesus was predestined. right?
feeren1909 2 years ago
Again, sinning is still possible and based on your will. However, the will is not completely free because God knows the outcome and because He made you and He is souvereign He also predestined you to make a certain choice. Our fless still battles the Spirit but because God chose you is going to get you no matter what.
Here you have the problem: you say I am superior to ''all of you'' who want to GAIN (!!) salvation. You cannot earn it, brother. It is a gift from God.
Con't
Ritsaart 2 years ago
Pt2.
So how do you gain salvation? Not by YOUR will but by God's will. You have not been saved by your own will but by God's grace. That is a fact.
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
You cannot be saved by works or your own will to be saved. It is His grace only. And for His own Glory only.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
@Ritsaart i dont think i ever said you gain your salvation from works of course... i see what you are saying... i know He is all knowing but for him to CHOOSE and use mankind as pawns... contradicts him being love... and contradicts Jesus dying for our sins to have the choice to be saved.. because before... if you werent a jew.. too bad.. yes it is by His grace! thats why we have the opportunity. to see predestination in that way would be almost as if God wrote a screen play...
feeren1909 2 years ago
@Ritsaart part2
and we have no relationship what so ever... though thats what we are taught by the word... to have a relationship with God. you cant have a relationship if you have no choice what so ever... in that interpretation of predestination would make Him a jerk... whether we want it or not.. that would make him evil and good. because he would choose ppl to suffer in hell for eternity... no disrespect whatsoever.. i really appreciate your input. i really do.. please adress my comments...
feeren1909 2 years ago
The problem is. It does not matter what you think about God. He is how He is. You have not given me 1 scripture which supports you opinion.
I know what you are going through. A lot of Christians strugle with this. The bible is not about man it is about God. God's will is the only one that counts not the one of man.
You say we all have a choice to chose christ. Read John 6. We were all dead in sin. We all deserve hell but for His own glory He chose to show mercy towards mankind.
Ritsaart 2 years ago
Pt2.
We are saved by grace alone. We cannot gain salvation. It was predestined.
How can we chose Jesus if we hate God. All men are born totally depraved. We are born God-haters. How can we chose Him? Only the Holy Spirit can change our hearts. So God choses if He wants to quicken your heart or not because He is in control of His own Spirit.
So does the Spirit quicken everyone's heart? Why are not all saved then? Can the grace alone save man or must we act (works) on it.
Ritsaart
Ritsaart 2 years ago
I have been reading your conversation with Ritsaart, and i can not but help joining. One of your reoccuring comments is that God's choice of man in salvation would negate the need for a savior in the first place. Now i don't know exactly where Ritsaart stands, but i want to agree with you that when Jesus Christ died he invited all to the choice of salvation. But I also want to pose this question: did Jesus accomplish anything more when he died?
squareman777 2 years ago
How can he claim to give a number scripturally?
dd090304 2 years ago
Good answer, but I don't think anywhere near 50 percent of people will be saved. It's just not Biblical.
Many are called but few are chosen
Matthew 22:14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a FEW find it."
Matthew 7:13-14
I encourage you guys to watch a video or two by Paul Washer perhaps... He'll explain some of these things.
clint25n 2 years ago
ho can be saved then?? with men it is impossible but with God all things are possible
jesuslivesinjoyce 2 years ago 3
I can't locate it, I don't know if I'm still motivated to be saved now, maybe I'm not one of the elect.
BOOTLICKER44 2 years ago
but that's the whole point. without God, you will never be motivated to be saved. man, on his own, does not seek the true God and is bondage to/loves his sin so much, he does not seek to part from it. the evidence that God has elected someone is that the heart that once hated God and felt no true repentance, now believes and is continually under the growth and conviction of the holy spirit that is inside of them. those who are elected, will believe, even if that is not at this moment.
shockingalternative 2 years ago
it is controversial... because if he pre elected people for heaven... free will would be pointless... and that would mean that God is a jerk... He is not a jerk if anything He is Love.... He is so wonderful that he gives us free will for us to choose... do not lose motivation cuz of something dumb like that... If people were pre elect there would not be free will and the Bible would not teach us how to Gain Salvation... it just doesnt make sense
feeren1909 2 years ago
Obviously homosexuals like myself can't be saved.
BOOTLICKER44 2 years ago
Hello BOOTLICKER44,
watch?v=hNowG5ktW8U and please check out the link attached to it.
~ Ephesians 2
greensatva 2 years ago
...And you're right, its a wonder that He saves ANYONE, seeing as we are all depraved from birth.
Yet He told Abraham that from Him will come a nation greater than the number of stars in the sky.
(Not children of His loins, but children of the Spirit)
silmalila 2 years ago
As Dr. White said:
"At the end of time, there will be two groups of people, one standing before God's throne adoring HIm, and other standing on the parapets of hell screaming out their hatred for Him"...
AND
"God has a whole range of attributes, and He means to display them all."
Anyone who walks with God, truly, will understand that it is by grace alone that we are saved, and that is the only thing that separates us from the lost.
We cannot 'earn' a gift!
(Eph 2: 8,9)
silmalila 2 years ago 2
HURR DURR DUH BIBLE SAYS IT SO I BELIEVES IT DUH DUH RHURR DURR wtf
nekftw 2 years ago
What kind of place would earth be if we only did that which glorified ourselves? What kind of heaven would it be if God requires continual, eternal praise, and we have to do it without even getting a break now and then? what kind of god would be helpless without continual reinforcement of his shaky ego, like a shy little kid might need from time to time? You got some real kookie ideas here.
whyitsfunny 2 years ago
How is it that at least 50% will get into heaven? How did he get that interpretation? I thought the road to destruction was broad?
MikeyTipunama 2 years ago 11
I'm not sure how he got to that interpretation. Dr. Cairns is a very good teacher but I disagree with him on this point. Even so, the point of his answer is right-on.
coblackmagus 2 years ago
Amen brother! "Narrow is the way and FEW are they that find it."
Cairns's reply to the question proposed is basically, "Mind your own business!"
Calvinist tosh.
cgvtv 2 years ago
what is your reply then?
ferrisscott 2 years ago
@MikeyTipunama i agree, the supposition comes out of no where and contradicts scripture. if it's dr cairns claims vs jesus claims, i'm going with Jesus.
this is a useless piece of apologetics. even if parts of its are true, it fails to build up those who are suffering.
MarkHolgate 1 year ago
@MikeyTipunama You are right. He is wrong on that point. The majority of mankind is and forever will be lost. That being said you dont want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". He still gives a good answer.
all4Hisgloryalone 1 year ago
@MikeyTipunama I agree. For Jesus Himself, the Saviour of the world, has said:
Matthew 7:13- 7:27 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
FollowerofChrist900 1 year ago
@MikeyTipunama AGREED!! Where does this guy get this 50%??? He quotes scripture, but i can't see how he can ignore the point you made which is the same how I feel about the issue.
mikeseattlewa 1 year ago
A good book to read reguarding this subject is John Piper's book, Desiring God. It sheds a light on this that opened my eyes. I truly believe that the Holy Spirit works through John Piper in wonderful ways. Everyone should pray and plead for the passion that Piper has.
spellbiff 2 years ago
Good video! God does what He wants to do!
truthabounds 2 years ago 2
I was asking Gabeedman how he substantiates his claim that Saul could've or would've rejected The Lord's call and election.
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
The same way parents with underage children can commit suicide.
Gabeedmann 2 years ago
Okay. I'll bite. What does that mean?
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
It means man is endowed with conscience to choose between good and evil.
Gabeedmann 2 years ago 2
Hey Gabee,
True. We have the free will to choose to sin or not to sin but we cannot confuse morality with the righteousness imputed to us by God's grace. Before we had done any good or evil, we were still seperated from God due to our nature. Read Romans 9 and then Romans 8 and then 9 again. Thanks and RSVP.
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
"We have the free will to choose to sin or not to sin"
According to Calvinism, you do NOT have such an innate free will. You're either hopelessly enslaved to sin, or irreversibly graced by God.
I believe that's what we would call cognitive dissonance.
Gabeedmann 2 years ago
Historically what people call the five points of Calvinism are the actually The Canons of Dort. The fifth point Article 1: Article 1:
The Regenerate Not Entirely Free from Sin
Those people whom God according to his purpose calls into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord and regenerates by the Holy Spirit, he also sets free from the reign and slavery of sin, though in this life not entirely from the flesh and from the body of sin.
But please, cite some examples. SIncerely. Need to kno
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
You are attempting to corrupt the simplicity of Christianity through vain dissolution. Yet, I give you proof enough: Many are called, but few are chosen.
Gabeedmann 2 years ago
What you say is correct and can be seen way back in Genesis 4:7 with Cain "If you do well will you not be accepted...sin's desire is for you but you must rule over/master it."
cgvtv 2 years ago
Jesus says in Mathew chapter 7, verses 13 and 14 that only a few will be saved, Where does it say in scripture, as Alan says he can show, that many will be saved?
chrispeldon 2 years ago
Chrispeldon,
I had the same question. We should ask him. I am going to.
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
This is a great video. Spoken with Christ like humility.
onesisinnc 2 years ago
Well, Saul of Tarsus was a uniquely transformative experience to catalyze the outgrowth of Christianity beyond the Levant. These types of radical conversions from other religions (Judaism, Islam, etc.) aren't exactly inconceivable. However, you're missing the point. Saul of Tarsus, like anyone, could've CHOSEN to thwart Christ's command, remaining obstinately incompliant. Christ would've elected another soul to Christianize the heathen Gentile nations and tribes. Not everything is predetermined.
Gabeedmann 2 years ago
Gbd- "Saul of Tarsus was a uniquely transformative experience to catalyze the outgrowth of Christianity " that's just silly & speculation on your part. God had chosen appointed apostles he could've used instead of Saul or atleast chose another believer. He chose Saul to show us that it does'nt matter where we stand,it is HIS WILL that will be done,not ours.Each conversion is a uniquely,radical transformative experience for EACH BELIEVER that has become saved.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
I'm sorry but how can you substantiate your claim?
daddysapp1111 2 years ago
The reason why God only saved some people is just so he can be glorified (Romans 9:23). He damns the rest so he can show his wrath to them (Rom 9:22). The question should not be, "why doesnt God save everyone?" but it sould be, "why does God save anyone?" No one seserves the love of God. Why is God oligated to save or at least give everyone the aability to be saved? What does God owe you? He owes you nothing! Thats why he has mercy on whom he has mercy, and he hardens w.hom he hardens rom 9:18
CASSMAN777 2 years ago
The scripture is fullfilled that says,
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.
Your reasoning is auducious and ludicrous because they proceed from a heart that is void of reason and understanding,how can you know the things of God when you dont even know Him?
He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Men judge themselves guilty.
8Anya8 2 years ago
My retorts to you have been thusfar unanswered, so you now resort to dismissing my intellect with citations? "How can you know the things of God when you don't even know Him?" - What things of God? Hell? Thusfar you have failed to show me instances where it's acknowledeged in the same book you've just quoted from. Since you want to resort to rhetoric through citations, answer this: How significant is the proclamation of an individual that they know God? Answer Matthew 7:21.
Diaramay 2 years ago
You cannot see nor hear therefore you do not know the things that are true.
8Anya8 2 years ago
Take for example the prophet Jonah who ran from God,yet even so God's will cannot be thwarted.
For according to his great mercy he recommissioned the disobedient prophet and even used him as an example of the 3 days and 3 nights the Son of man would spend in the heart of the earth.
O so great is the goodness of God to those whom he has called and chosen.
Paul was predestined to become who he became,a bondservant of Messiah.
Not of him who wills or runs,but of GOD who shows mercy.
8Anya8 2 years ago
He says he believes 50 % of people will saved and go to heaven and he believes he can verify this scripturally, yet he stops short of stating these verses. Can anyone out there tell me where this is scripturally? I thought scripture said NARROW is the way and FEW are those who enter. Please comment.
kellitowhiting 2 years ago
kell- You are correct that FEW will be saved, there is no scriptural basis that show a 50% ratio. We do scripture that says 10% belong to God, 1/3 are saved, 8 souls were saved at flood, 3 spared at Sodom,and 200 million in Rev.9:16 "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them." is 200 million literal or spiritual, I'm not sure.
WIzDum82 2 years ago
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SteamyStats 2 years ago
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9;43,49
Make no mistake hell is eternal once a man goes there,there can be no going back.
Mark the key word that is being used here 6 times,that there might be no mistakening the permanency of it.
"not"
"ou" in the Greek,an absolute negative adverb.
8Anya8 2 years ago
The greek "ou" being an absolute negative proves nothing about the eternal element of hell because the word hell is erroneously translated as such; why can't you accept this? The phrases of "where the worm dieth not" & "the fire is not quenched" were the provoking of the imagery of gehenna (the valley of the Sons of Hinnom). Your claim that the occasions of "ou" denotes the permanency of hell is very audacious.
Diaramay 2 years ago
That which is flesh is flesh,and that which is spirit is spirit,it is the Spirit that gives life,the flesh ptofits nothing.
The prophet Isaiah wrote,
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. 66:24
This allusion to hell is picked up in the new testament by Yahshua to speak of eternal damnation on the part of the wicked and
8Anya8 2 years ago
"This allusion to hell..." - There is no evidence that the words of Isaiah were an allusion to hell. Gehenna (i.e. the valley of the Sons of Hinnom) - Yes; hell - No: there was no such concept recognized then.
Diaramay 2 years ago
sinner alike.
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
8Anya8 2 years ago
My statement as to vainity and assuming to much,especially where the word of God is concerned was a general statement,more directed at the speaker who 'believes' that God will save more than 50% of mankind and yet offers no scriptural evidence.
Therefore your assumption that my remark was aimed at you was also in error.
8Anya8 2 years ago
Everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.
Do you believe this?
John 11:26
8Anya8 2 years ago
Wow. Cairns gave a very, very, good answer; yet again!
Studier101 2 years ago
the name Gehinnom/hell) to burn their sons and daughters in the fire,which I commanded them not,neither came it into my heart.
Jeremiah 7:31
Men offered their own children to demons in this place,which would later became associated with the place where all the wicked would suffer under the just punishmsnt of God as a result of their rebellion against the truth.
It is written,Thou art of purer eyes then to behold evil and you cannot look upon iniquity. Habakkuk 1:13
8Anya8 2 years ago
Yahshua experienced hell when he cried out"My God,my God,why hast thou forsaken me!"
Because GOD is Spirit,the absence of his Spirit is death,thus when he spoke unto Adam and his wife he said,'in the day ye eat thereof in dying you shall surely die.'
Thus the promise of eternal separation from God is hell.
Sheol is naked in his sight and abaddon/hell has no covering.
Job 26:6
They/men built the high places of tophet/place of fire,which is in the valley of the son of hinnom(from which we get
8Anya8 2 years ago
[P6a] "Yahshua experienced hell when he cried out 'My God my God why hast thou forsaken me'" - Please explain to me the logic behind your inference that Jesus experienced hell based on this quote? It seems simply ludicrous.
"Because GOD is Spirit, the absence of his Spirit is death" - Explain this one too.
Diaramay 2 years ago
Trust not in man who assumes to much.
It is written that the prophets of old searched their own scriptures diligently as to the time and manner the Spirit of Messiah spoke through them of his sufferings and the glory that was to follow.
If the writers of scripture wrestled with these things,how much more vain men that assume to much.
The doctrine of hell is replete throughout scripture.
It must be noted that hell not only speaks of Gods hatred of sin,but also his absence from sinners
8Anya8 2 years ago
[P3a] "The doctrine of hell is replete throughout scipture." - This statement is no different from that of Unw0rthy0fn0te who said "Jesus taught Hell". & so I will reiterate the theme of my response to his statement unto you: Can you show me an instance of the knowledge of hell in the Bible & would this instance be reliant on an english translation where the word hell is already (& erroneously) present? It is not enough to contradict what I said, with a statement of no vindicating quality.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P4a] "It must be noted that hell not only speaks of Gods hatred of sin, but also his absence from sinners." - That was funny. As I said in my first post to you, you may be able to come up with a convenient explanation. You sure did so there. I don't know where you got that view from but the discussion of its validity can only take place after it can be established CONCLUSIVELY that hell is an acknowledged reality in the Bible; so you're jumping ahead of things aren't you?
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P5a] Since it was I who begun the discussion of hell & the latter part of your post relates to it, am I correct in assuming that the former part is an allusion to me as uttering assumptions & in vain? If I'm correct then it is a poor attempt to dismiss my discourse in favour of maintaining the belief in hell, especially when you can't seem to vindicate its biblical acknowledgement. It's like a man with his eyes closed dismissing as speculative, a seeing man's report of what he sees.
Diaramay 2 years ago
Hell was appointed for the devil and his angels,not for men.
Eternity will bear witness to the saving grace of God on behalf of his elect,whom he predestined for salvation before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4
It will also bear witness to the wicked sinful heart of men who set themselves up as gods by choosing evil over what is good.
Never trust what men say unless it is in accordance with scripture,few men will be saved,the majority will slip into hell.
8Anya8 2 years ago
[P1a] "Hell was appointed for the devil and his angels, not for men." This is another contentious belief that quite interestingly has NO basis in the OT. In Genesis 6 the "Sons of God" appear to have been cast to the EARTH with no mention of hell. The well-known passages in Isaiah & Ezekiel that has been deemed to express the "fall" of Satan, describes him as being cast into SHEOL: hell is not mentioned.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P2a] Now you may be able to come up with a convenient explanation as to the absence of hell in these instances concerning Satan but may I advance my suggestive explanation, in that hell was not mentioned because the Jews held to no such concept, explaining why their scriptures also contains its non-existence.
Diaramay 2 years ago
It's hard to respond, as I don't really know what you believe and what point you are trying to prove. Could you perhaps extrapolate on your personal beliefs on the issue?
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
You don't know what I am trying to prove? I already stated my argument in my 1st post here to dwaynesweatman1988. I said "...the existence of hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible." So why are we expressing our belief in it & telling "unbelievers" that their eternity is there, considering how grave such information is & the fact that it's not even undeniable? Isn't it then a gross evil to tell "unbelievers" this?
Diaramay 2 years ago
No Biblical scholar outside of the WAY liberal fringe would back you on your statements here. Looking at the Christian Bible as a whole, an eternal realm of punishment for the reprobate is a clear teaching. If you are asking for a clear statement that "Hell" exists in every book of the Bible in order for it to be "incontrovertibly acknowledged" then simply we do not have that, nor do we need it. The New Testament as a whole teaches the doctrine of an eternal damnation and punishment.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
[P1b] "...WAY liberal fringe..." - You lost me there, but whatever you meant, I'll ask you to prove your statement. In fact let me demonstrate how futile your statement is by directing its theme to you: No MUSLIM biblical scholar would back your hold that Jesus is God &/or saves us from our sins. Would you then concede that the muslim biblical scholar is right concerning Jesus? No you would not. A scholar is not immune from error & delusion.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P2b] "Looking at the Christian Bible as a whole, an eternal realm of punishment for the reprobate is a clear teaching." - This is getting tedious; 8Anya8 already said such a comment. I'll reiterate the same theme again: Can you show me where in the Bible & would such instances rely on an english translation where the word hell is ALREADY & ERRONEOUSLY present?
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P3b] "If you are asking for a clear statement that "Hell" exists in every book of the Bible..." - I'm not asking for it to be in every book; I'm asking: is the concept of hell (a location of perpetual torment as punishment for sins) undeniably acknowledged in the Bible? The answer is no. It is not acknowledged in neither the OT nor the NT. It seems that you can only contend with me by using an english translation.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P3b response] You have no basis for this assertion. The Greek says the same thing, actually. If you want to contend with hundreds of translators by claiming that the numerous "Hell" references in the NT are all grossly mistranslated then that is your decision.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
I have no basis for what assertion? - You've lost me. & what does the greek say that is the same? The same as what? As for your last statement, the fact that 100's of translators translated the hell in place of sheol, gehenna, hades, abadon & tartarus, does not seal the correctness of translating such words as hell. Why did these translators translate the words as hell in 1 place & the grave (or pit) in another? The latter is argubly the correct rendition.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P2b response]Revelation 20:10-15 is a clear example; the lake of fire where the devil is tormented forever is clearly the same that the lost are thrown into, for eternal torment under the wrath of God. Jesus consistently refers to a "casting into the fire", to the place where there is "gnashing of teeth", etc. In addition, historically Christians have always believed in eternal damnation, long before the "erroneous" English translation.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
The lake of fire mentioned in Revelation throws this discussion into a more complicated level. Also I wouldn't be too swift to equate the theme of fire in the phrase "lake of fire" with all other themes with the word fire. As I said to 8Anya8, some references to fire were the provoking of the imagery of the valley of the Sons of Hinnom (i.e. gehenna).
Diaramay 2 years ago
What then would be your interpretation of that passage in Revelation? What exactly is John telling us?
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
Currently & admittedly I cannot say. I do not want to give an answer simply to preserve my doubt of hell, for I am not stubborn nor I am I arguing against the existence of hell subjectively: My doubt concerning hell was only provoked recently.
Diaramay 2 years ago
Alright; well, I suppose I can understand that. Honestly though without a hell much of Christian theology means nothing; there are really only two meaningful alternatives, annihilationism and universalism. Both I think can be debunked by any meaningful study and exegesis of the Bible. If you believe that the Bible gives us a consistent theology then there are a myriad of questions you would need to answer. And if you do not believe that, then I'd rather discuss the Gospel ; )
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
[p1b response] Muslims have been refuted in numerous debates on that subject. Telling me that people can misinterpret the Bible in a completely different area of discussion hardly proves your point. The majority of scholars and the massive majority of theologians have ALWAYS recognized that the Bible teaches an eternal damnation.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
The fact that Muslims have been refuted is actually a reiteration & support of what I said: A scholar is not immune from error. That was the point of me making the example. It was to refute your appeal to scholars as though they supercede the arguments of others purely because they are scholars. Nevertheless, it would be nice to converse with a scholar & test your claim that they always have recognized an eternal damnation.
Diaramay 2 years ago
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KyleVonMour 2 years ago
i am leaning towards the reformed view (still studying and praying) but i'm curious as to this gentleman's opinion that more than 50% of men will be saved. doesn't the bible state that narrow is the way and few will find it? please someone give me perspective if you can :)
shockingalternative 2 years ago
my question is why create us knowing the majority of us will burn
ooohpie 2 years ago
2 samuel 12:23. If this is saying infants and children who die young are saved, I could see a majority in heaven. Are zygotes in cyrogenic chambers included also?
rlcain 2 years ago
the Bible does not tell us with clarity whether or not infants are saved; all though it seems consistent with His character to do so. However, He certainly isn't obligated to do so, as we know that infants too are evil, according to the book of Psalms. Rather than debate it it seems better to me to put that in God's hands and trust Him to do what is right.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
I don't think a majority would be saved... Give me some scriptures on that, chum.
therealdrag0 2 years ago
I agree with you.
"narrow is the gate and straight the way, and few be there that find it."
yeshua4U 2 years ago
There's a joke about the luck of the Irish... a guy step in a pile of sh#t and said I'm lucky I didn't have my new shoes .. . Just change lucky to miracle. He apparently can get away with the very minimum .The bible does say he took a day off .
misterwrightjos 2 years ago
But I agree with you, Dr. Cairns. It is incredible amazing grace that God should save one. God's glory in His grace is incredible beyond all praise. Amazing grace... how sweet the sound.
I can see and feel and taste the Glory of Heaven... right now. Grace and peace to you. Laura
graceexplosion 2 years ago
The WORD is true. Isaiah 51: 11 The ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.
1 Timothy 2:6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
Jesus gave Himself as a ransom for ALL men - and ALL the ransomed of the Lord shall return and enter ZION. Time of punishment misunderstood
graceexplosion 2 years ago
I reckon God only saves people who are worth it i.e. people who are poor, retarded or black are most likely going to hell. God wants Doctors, Lawyers, and business men in heaven with him - after all that would be good business sense.
YourBroAlan 2 years ago
I think maybe there should be like a draft or something. God and Jesus both get their own franchise and get to pick guys. Jesus - being the young kid - would be more edgey with his picks i.e. Michael Jackson is going with JC, while Ed McMahon is God's first pick!
YourBroAlan 2 years ago
I have listened to this man before but I would have to say he hit the theological crackpipe at 0:57 seconds! Where does he get that from?
Matthew 7:12-14.
dwaynesweatman1988 2 years ago
This guy is totally whack.... he's from Nothern Ireland so clearly he isn't all there.
YourBroAlan 2 years ago
That 's a metaphore I have never heard before, but it's probably appropriate,.
DrJTG 2 years ago
"I would perfer a God who is love"
Thats your problem, you have decided to believe in a God you "prefer". That's not how salvation works, God is Lord, and God actually saves who his wishes for the praise of his Grace, b/c all have sinned and DESERVE hell. If God saved no one he would be Just.
So what, aTrueHybrid, you would rather believe in a God who "loves" people he is going to eternally burn in hell fire in his WRATH? What kind of Love is that?
Belive the Bible, not what you prefer.
dwaynesweatman1988 2 years ago
"b/c all have sinned and DESERVE hell" - Isn't it amazing how most of Christendom believes in hell & warns unbelievers that its abode is our deserved destination as punishment for our sins. It's amazing because the existence of hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible. A location of perpertual torment as punishment for sins? What about the parable of Lazarus & the rich man? It is certainly more congruent to the Jewish concept of sheol, not hell - an erroneous english translation.
Diaramay 2 years ago
Jesus taught Hell. Most of our doctrine on Hell comes from His sermons.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
[P1] Did you actually appreciate my post? I said hell is not incontrovertibly acknowledged in the Bible (i.e. the knowledge of its concept in the Bible is not undeniable). "Jesus taught hell" - Did he? Can you show me where he did so & would your proof be restricted to an english translation where the word hell is already (& erroneously) present?
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P2] "Most of our doctrine on Hell comes from His sermons." - Yes, but this does not necessarily mean that his sermons contained any expression of the doctrine. For example, most of Christendom would cite excerpts of Mark 13/Matt 24/Luke 21 when expounding on the 2nd coming of Christ & The Tribulation. However, the passages express no such events - they are erroneous interpretations. Those passages were a prophecy pertaining to the destruction of Jerusalem, & hence have been fulfilled.
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P3] The words of "This generation shall not pass till ALL these things be fulfilled" are a serious blow to the interpretation of the 2nd coming of Christ/Tribulation events that present Christendom believes is yet to happen. The promise that the contemporaneous peoples would witness the events is confirmed in Matt 26:64, where Jesus promised the high priest that even he would see the Son of man sit on the right hand of power, coming in the clouds of heaven (see 24:30).
Diaramay 2 years ago
[P4] So please show me an instance where Jesus taught of a location where "unbelievers" would be tormented perpetually as the punishment for their sins?
Diaramay 2 years ago
I acknowledge the fact that based on the OT alone there is very little to be said of the afterlife at all; indeed, throughout history different Jews took different stances on the issue, although at the time of Jesus almost unanimously the Jews believed in an afterlife. When I said Hell I was referring to the "lake of fire", not the OT correct usage of the word. My point was that Jesus taught that there was an afterlife punishment for the reprobate that was eternal.
Unw0rthy0fn0te 2 years ago
Amazing video. 5 *s
skalapunk 2 years ago
Can you give me any verses where the Apostles urged us not to debate our faith.
Christus94 2 years ago
I would have to disagree with this man's opinion about the majority of people being saved, the Bible says in Matthew 7:14 that few will find salvation.
Christus94 2 years ago
"I will not debate, since debating always leads to sin."
How convenient for you. That way you never have to examine your beliefs to see if they are in keeping with scripture.
BTW, if that's a true statement, the Apostle Paul, Peter and others the New Testament, including Christ Himself, have a lot to answer for.
lgfarlow 2 years ago
"He (Paul) talked and debated with the Grecian Jews, but they tried to kill him. " - Acts 9:29
"For he (Paul) vigorously refuted the Jews in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ." - Acts 18:28
lgfarlow 2 years ago
Bible says that there are few that find salvation and many who go to destruction.
Plain and simple, nothing to be questioned. Who cares about mens opinions?
jmhjmh5 2 years ago
haha this guy was born in the wrong era!! he reminds me of the puritans lol
and cmon read john 6:40
LICD2S 2 years ago
because they hear The TruTh
naomidavelaar 2 years ago
If you were told you were going to have 6 children and 5 were going to hell, would you still have the children?
According to this absurd doctrine of eternal damnation thats about the % of the population going there and God foreknew it.You honestly think this is Gods will?
ThirdProverb 2 years ago