Romans 1:5 teaches we're given grace for our obedience, which involves actions, to the faith. Sorry protester but what you attack is supported in the Bible.
Since LDS don't pray to Jesus as well as to the Father, they aren't Christians. Jesus receives both worship and prayer, and we are commanded to do so (Mt. 4:10; 28:16-20; Jn. 5:18-23; 14:14, New American Standard Version and in the best Greek manuscripts; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2; and 1 Jn. 5:13-15).
This is from our Guide to the Scriptures, about worship:
"Love, reverence, service, and devotion for God (D&C 20: 19). Worship includes prayer, fasting, church service, participating in gospel ordinances, and other practices that show devotion and love for God."
That's why I cited Jn. 14:14 from the NAS or the Greek text. The King James that you cite doesn't do a good job here as other versions. The Greek literally says, "If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." This is also supported by the other passages I listed. Jesus is God (Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18 & Rom. 9:5), so you should worship Him as you define it. He is just as much God as the Father is, but the Father isn't the Son.
I see Jesus when I pray, so I talk with Him. Again, Jesus tells us to ask Him in the Greek of Jn. 14:14. His apostles tell us to call upon Him in 1 Cor. 1:2 & 1 Jn. 5:13-15. This is another reason why LDS aren't Christians. They have no personal relationship w/ Jesus in which they pray directly to Him.
He never said to pray to Him, He told us, pray to Heavenly Father.
What, pray tell, IS a "personal relationship with Jesus"? They kept telling me about that growing up and I always felt SO left out because I knew I was saved, and I did accept Jesus a my saviour, but I couldn't get that HIGH that they kept talking about. I just don't see Jesus as a drug. And that's what this "personal relationship" was.
You don't know Jesus like you don't know my mom. You don't have a personal relationship w/ either. You don't spend time talking to either. You don't hang out w/ either. You need to repent of the cult your in & live for Jesus. Let Him be your master. BTW, you can't have more than 1 master according to Him (Mt. 6:24).
I know enough of what you said to let your own words condemn you, viz., you don't have a personal relationship w/ Jesus since you don't even talk directly to Him.
And you're more of a credible source than your prophets, particularly Joseph Smith & Lorenzo Snow? All LDS believe there's a Heavenly Mother--they even sing to her in "O My Father." What does God need her for?
It's not scriptural all right. In fact, it goes against scripture, since God's not a man of any sort and has to be exalted by being sealed to a wife (Hos. 11:9 & Ps. 90:2). God's not that needy.
Who said anything about God being needy? or that He is a man? He is not a man, like we are, even tho He does have an exalted body of flesh and bone.
If man doesn't need woman and woman doesn't need man, in the next life, then why did God not only create man and woman, but sanctify marriage? Why does Paul say that man is not without the woman and woman is not without the man IN THE LORD?
Whether God NEEDS to be sealed to a wife, is up to Him.
Your own prophets have said God's needy. Since as Snow said, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be," then God needed things to be exalted. This is blasphemous. God isn't an exalted man. He's always been God, the creator of literally everything outside Himself. There is no marriage (neither ceremony nor a state of being) in the after life either. Jesus was quite clear about that in Mt. 22.
I think you're reading more into this than what's there.
And Jesus never said NO ONE is married in the resurrection, only those who don't believe in the resurrection, like the Saducees. Why would they ask Him which man the woman would be married to, if it was not an accepted belief among other Jews? He told them, she won't be married to any of them because you don't believe in the resurrection, and in the resurrection, she won't get the chance.
What is there is the question of whose husband will this wife have in the resurrection. The obvious answer from the LDS perspective that Jesus should have said was: "It depends on whom she was sealed to in the temple." Since Jesus didn't say that, but said that we'll be like the angels in heaven, then according to D&C 132:17, we'll all be single.
He didn't say that, because, since the Saducees didn't believe in the resurrection, then they would not have had her sealed to any of those brothers. They were counting on it being done in the resurrection IF there was a resurrection. They didn't believe in sealing for all eternity, since they didn't believe in all eternity. Don't you see?
How could they count on it being done in the resurrection if there was a resurrection? They didn't believe in an afterlife, & that's why Jesus tells them they do err in not knowing the scriptures. There is an afterlife & there people are single, not married, since they are as the angels. Jesus could have easily answered this question by saying it depends on whom she was sealed to in the temple. The problem is that they didn't do eternal marriage sealing in the temple.
They knew that they were probably the only ones who did not believe in the resurrection. everyone else did. Jesus did. That's why they asked him that question. They knew he believed in the resurrection and obviously they knew that he believed in marriage after the resurrection. Otherwise, they would never have asked him that question, because they wanted to trip him up, not make him look stupid.
So, if we aren't to be married in the afterlife, then what is the purpose of male and female, marriage, and all that? if we don't need it in heaven, why do we need it in this life?
O most holy lindalds: One of the primary reasons is to raise children. We don't raise children in the next life. Their won't be spirit kids to receive worship from. They are single... as the angels. The woman could have very easily got sealed if that's what they did back then, but Jesus never answered it that way. That would have put an end to the question. Instead, Jesus refutes them by saying there's an afterlife & in it they are as the angels.
And I don't see why marriage is so important in this life if it's not important in the next. You don't need marriage to have kids, people have kids all hte time without being married. Are they going to hell because they aren't married? You don't even think it's a sin, do you?
If you are working to Godhood for your own world like your God did for this world, then you should expect that your spirit-kids will worship you to the exclusion of the God of this world. Since you don't worship your spirit-grandfather, your spirit-kids, if you become a god, won't worship our God either. They'll simply worship you.
You can assUme all you want about what I believe, but you couldn't be more wrong.
And to make fun of something like some little kid on the playground, that's just showing how scared you are that what we believe just might be right after all.
O most holy lindalds: If you don't follow the LDS prophets, then you're not a good Mormon. Did you see the Manti video? Do you believe what that says about the most important thing? You belong to a blasphemous cult that thinks the most important thing is becoming gods like all gods have done before us. Run from false prophets!
O most holy lindalds: Of course you don't need marriage to have kids, but if you want kids raised to their potential best, then you need marriage. It's the bedrock of our society.
Society is going to hell, so why should they be the final say as to what's right? I know that a mother and father in a marriage relation is the best for kids... and btw, the history of western society agrees with me.
See the MORmON See lindalds See LDS run their mouths constanlty about things they say are critical See some one point out LDS folly See the LDS change their tune See MORmONS try to play the game of you can't guess what I really believe ! see MORmONS deny what they were saying 5 minutes ago See how no one takes MORmONS seriously ... except MORmONS See MORmONS flip flopping like a trout landed on a stream bank See How Stupid MORmONS really are!
Like I said. If you call yourself a Christian, you are not representing any god or christ I want anything to do with.
And if you are not a Christian, you prove my theory correct that, if the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is not the true Church of Christ, then said church does not exist.
Jesus DOES find the filthy LDS cult to be offensive, LindaLDS. If you think there is a message in that for you, then it is your matter to deal with, NOT mine. You should be far more concerned with your initial impression on the matter than in following up with your DUMB ASS comments that you thought were clever.
as well you would be far better off to start questioning OTHER "Jesus" messages to you, namely those by liars that dare use the title of "apostle" in modern times.
Jesus taught Be Ye Therefore Perfect. We gladly accept this doctrine that Jesus taught. Why can't the other christian denominations accept this and try His works to do?
Christians do accept Mt. 5:48. Have you ever thought that perhaps they understand something different about it than you do? Christians love to be like their Father in heaven. In contrast to LDS though, they don't think they can do all they can do until they receive the grace of God. This is the peace we have w/ God that LDS don't get. They have no assurance that when they die they'll be with the Father. Christians do, not because they are worthy, but because the Worthy One took our place.
If you understand BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT as something different than I do, than that what is actually said there, can you explain why you want to change the words to mean something else? What else could it mean?
Gen. 6:9 ...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Hmmm.
Gen. 17:1 ...the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Deut. 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
1 Kgs. 8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.
Job 2:3 ...Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity...
mormonanswerman: You don't read very carefully, so continuing this may be a waste of time. Again, Christians agree we should be perfect, but the intention is different from what LDS have in mind. Christians are perfect in Christ. With their devalued Jesus, LDS are in sin & can never please God, & all their righteousness are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6). LDS are unbelievers, & as Pharisees, they think they are worthy before God when they are children of the devil (Jn. 8:44).
As soon as you want to quit the discussion that is your choice, but I will continue until you block me. Here goes.
You say that you are perfect in Christ, then if that were true, why can I not see or experience YOUR perfection (you don't look perfect at all to me, and it looks like you are angry when you speak about frustrating things about mormonism as you see it).
If that's perfection, I don't want any part of it. Can you see that? You are NOT emulating what I think of Christ, but a human.
Me, on the other hand, I don't claim to be perfect now, but I am WORKING on it, one fault at a time. Believe me, I have made progress. You should have seen me in my 20's. There HAS been progress. I expect to be at my most humble perfection in my 90's.
It seems nonsense to say that christians are "perfect in Christ" when we have preachers that engage in homosexual acts, prostitution, drugs and scandal, all while on TV stating how saved and perfect they are, and "righteous." It lends to the cynical view of their so-called perfection in Christ. In fact, it is a stumbling block to all those atheists out there who see bad examples and consider us all hypocrites as a whole. That's sad and frustrating, the wrong impression, wrong example.
Ps. 11:3: "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" You have no foundation to be perfect since you don't believe in the God/Jesus of the Bible. Good luck being perfect without this foundation. Even in your 90s, you'll still be a miserable sinner in need of grace apart from works. 1 Jn. 1:9 says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Heb. 10:14 says, "by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."
Of course that scripture in John 1:9 means that everyone HAS sinned. But it does not mean that you can't overcome sin. You can. I have shown you sciptures of where Abraham, Noah, Job, etc., have overcome sin, and the BIBLE says they were PERFECT.
Its time for christians to STOP making excuses for their sins, and give them up. Be perfect, like Christ commanded in Matt 5:48
Actually, it was 1 Jn. 1:8 that I was referring to which is in the present tense. I *have* been cleansed of all sin (past tense in v. 9), because I have confessed what a lousy sinner I am. It's not because of my works. Christians debase themselves & glory in the cross. LDS and other Pharisees exalt themselves (cf. Jesus' parable in Lk. 18:10ff. You exalt yourselves you'll be abased [v. 14]). The Christian's perfection is in Christ (Heb. 10:14), & He continues to make us more like Himself.
Christians aren't advocating making excuses for their sins. They are forgiven & trusting God to make them more into the sort of people He desires. I am perfect... in Christ. He who knew no sin became sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor. 5:21). Now the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God. He lives in me & demonstrates the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 2:20, 5:22ff.). That doesn't mean I don't sin every day. I do. Christians can be authentic.
Noah was perfect in Gen. 6:9, but after the flood he still sinned & got drunk. He still made it in the hall of faith in Heb. 11. Note that this is after Heb. 10:12-14. Paul had a righteousness by faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28, 4:4-6), but still sinned. Read Rom. 7. He said he continued to sin even though he didn't want to in his spirit. Nonetheless, in Rom. 8:1 he confidently declared he wasn't worried about condemnation, since he was "in Christ" & nothing would separate this (vss. 28-39).
We don't do works trying to get what God gives us for free. We do what Jesus commands of us. I don't see how you think we "devalue" Jesus. How can it devalue Him to follow Him and do waht He commands?
We are not like the Pharisees, we are told that humility is one of the most important things we should be.
According to the video "Manti Mormon Pageant Blasphemy 2008," the most important thing in Mormonism is man's exaltation into becoming a god. That's not humility; that's exalting yourself. That's not the way of the cross. Moroni 10:4 also says you don't get God's grace until you deny yourself all ungodliness and love God w/ all your heart. If that's the case, then no one will ever get it. LDS devalue Jesus by making Him not the Creator of everything outside Himself.
The most important thing is to honor and worship God by becoming what He wants us to be. And yes, there is humility involved. Anyone who does this for selfish reasons will not attain exaltation.
Denying all ungodliness does not equate to perfection, but to striving for perfection (completeness). We cannot boast of what we do right because we are not perfect, and bragging is two steps back for every one step forward.
Jesus IS the creator of everything outside Himself.
Since LDS don't know if they have eternal life, they focus on themselves... their works. Have they done enough to make it into the presence of the Father? To claim yes is to boast. To hope they've done enough is to boast. It's all self-centered. Eph. 2:8-10: it's not about boasting. Grace isn't of our merits. LDS don't think Jesus created Lucifer since they teach they're brothers in a pre-earth life. LDS Jesus didn't create matter/intelligences, since they're eternal. Lots He didn't create.
If we know we haven't "done enough", then we probably haven't. But, what is "enough"? Is there such a thing?
Sometimes, what we do is "all we can do", and that has to be enough. God told Nephi that He will not ask us to do anything we can't do. If He asks us to not kill, not commit adultery, not steal, etc., that must mean that it's possible to NOT DO those things.
Knowing that you have eternal life has nothing to do with our being worthy enough. It has everything to do with whether we have the Son or not (1 Jn. 5:10-13). If you have Him, then you ought to know you have it. If you don't, then you don't have eternal death. Most of the world doesn't have the Son, & that's why they go to hell (Mat. 7:13-14). You need to believe in order to get eternal life (Jn. 3:16). LDS don't believe. They want to show how worthy they are, & trust in a weak Jesus.
Yes, you are right, but, what you must remember is, that what Mormons believe, and what some people THINK Mormons believe are sometimes two different things.
1Ne 3:7 "I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."
We do what we can. We don't do more than we can do, than God gives us the means to accomplish.
I don't ask if I prayed enough, but I do ask, did I listen for and to God enough after my prayer.
lindalds: We do what we can isn't good enough. It's we must do all that we can do, and according to 1 Ne. 3:7 we should be able to do everything. So if you don't do everything, according to 2 Ne. 25:23, you don't get God's grace.
Alma 24:11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—
Sometimes, like the anti-Nephi-Lehis, all we can do is repent of our sins, and turn from ungodliness. Will we still sin? Yes, but, we can repent, and we can
lindalds: this doesn't seem to fit w/ D&C 42:18 that says there's no forgiveness in this life nor the life to come for killing. If that's true, then Moses, Saul, David, and all those who have hated their brethren (since Jesus taught that's equivalent to murder) will never have forgiveness. That's not good news, & thus, it's not the gospel.
Nothing in the D&C is meant to pass judgment on anyone in the Bible.
D&C 42:18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.
See, God is speaking to the church of that day (and today), that WE are not to kill, or WE will have no forgiveness. Are you saying, then, that if WE DO kill someone, WE will still be forgiven, even tho God has said WE won't?
Yes, if I have a bad day & kill, then Christ already paid for it. He paid for *all* my sins. The LDS Jesus doesn't. The Book of Mormon passage you gave along with many Bible passages indicates that killing is forgivable (e.g., 2 Sam. 12:13, 2 Cor. 5:14-21). Only the God of the D&C has said that killing is unforgivable. The God of the Bible forgives of all sin, and works in believers lives to make them more like Himself even though they'll have bad days.
Yes, He PAID for those sins, but WE must repent of those sins if we are to be forgiven.
Actually, God said in the D&C that He will forgive whom He will forgive. If He wants to forgive someone for murder, He will. But, WE can't assume that He has done this. We also believe that death is not the end, that once you die, all choice is gone, and all opportunity is gone. That's not the case.
And there ARE sins that cannot be forgiven, such as apostasy, and blasphemy against the HG.
He's already told you that He paid for all sins, so the believer or repenter's confidence is totally in the cross. The D&C may say He will forgive whom He will, but He's clearly told us one group He won't forgive, viz., those who kill. For those, there's no forgiveness in this life or in the life to come (42:18). That's not Christianity. Apostasy or blasphemy of HG are simply instances of those who truly haven't repented. So of course there's no forgiveness if the debt isn't received.
I already said yes to me, since I'm born-again, a child of God. For you, since you're dead in God's eyes, your sins remain w/ you, & will condemn you. 2 Sam. 12:13 makes it clear that David's sin of adultery & murder were forgiven. Your insignificant sin makes you guilty of all the law in God's eyes (James 2:10). D&C 42:18 is a lie from Satan & isn't good news for all the billions who have committed it. Again, God lets everyone know through nature that murder is a sin (Rom. 1:18ff.).
What's the argument for second chance after this life? God's already given a knowledge of Himself in nature, Rom. 1:18ff. says, so that the judgment happens after this life. Again, there's appointed 1 life, and after it, the judgment, not the second chance (Heb. 9:27). Even the Book of Mormon agrees with this (Alma 34:32-35).
So, even if a person never hears the name of Jesus Christ, they can still be saved?
Alma says that IF you know the gospel of Jesus Christ, you must accept it now or be damned. But, if one has never heard the name of Jesus Christ, and there ARE those who have never heard of Him or his gospel, they WLL get that chance. if not in this life, then in the next.
Where does Alma 34:32-35 mention "the gospel of Jesus Christ"? The passage is consistent with Rom. 1:18ff. that speaks of judgment for those who don't repent in this life. That presupposes they *can* repent due to the knowledge God gives of Himself through the "things that are made." The just shall live by faith. Hebrews says that w/out faith, it's impossible to please God, & that if any come to Him, they must believe in Him & that He's a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
What's the argument here? A chance for what? I grant that if someone doesn't hear of Jesus and they repent of their sin & trust God, then they get the chance to know Jesus after this life. But this isn't the same as saying like LDS that they have a chance to get saved or become worthy before God in the next life. Everyone w/ their faculties functioning properly gets that chance in this life. So if you die w/out repenting from Mormonism, you won't get a chance to repent in the next life.
No one is going to burn in hell for joining the wrong denomination or whatever. God isn't that petty.
Many people live the gospel, even tho they don't know anything about it. And despite what many Christians say, those people are not going to hell either. You can say that God is not going to hole it against those who have never heard the gospel but are good people who live the gospel principles, etc. But, 99% of all Christians I talk to will say "Doesn't matter how good they are,
Again, it has nothing to do w/ how good one is, since Jesus said that none are good, except God (Lk. 18:19). It matter whether one repents of their sin & trusts God to change their life based on the info they've got to work w/. & Jesus says, contrary to your belief (minus any evidence), that most people are own the road to destruction (Mt. 7:13-14). Relatively few are on the path that leads to life.
You don't understand. You don't screw it. You trust Christ to work in you & do the work you can't do. You trust Him to pay the debt completely & then you trust Him to change you as He wills. You're too self-centered instead of Christ-centered. That's why the LDS Church isn't appealing to most people. Go to a Christian church, then go to an LDS church. There's a vast contrast on the attention given to Jesus.
O most holy lindalds! Thank you for creating our world. Thank you for our food. Praise your name to the ends of the earth. Help us to be good LDS boys & girls so that we too can have our boys & girls pray to us some day too! This is what you expect to get some day from your spirit kids if you become a god for them, right?! This is what you traded Christianity for.
Oh, that's just wrong. No, that's NOT what I expect, nor is that what I want.
All I want is to be complete and happy like my Heavenly Father is. whatever else there is, that's something we'll find out later.
But, I traded "Christianity" with it's "believe exactly like me or you're gonna burn in hell" crap, the Trinity (which isn't Biblical) and the "rapture"(which isn't Biblical either) or it's "even if you don't know Jesus, God will judge you on what you do know, but
O most holy lindalds! The HF is complete & happy & we are to be perfect like He is according to Jesus. "As man is God once was, as God is man may be" (Lorenzo Snow). Joseph Smith, "We've got to learn to be gods the same as all other gods have done" (Teachings of the Prophet JS). The Gospel Principles, until they recently changed it, said that our spirit kids will have the same relation to us as we have to our HF. So LDS are false, blasphemous prophets.
Mormonism is juvenile. What a joke to think that us humans can be exalted to being gods just like our HF is! This blasphemy deserves to be made fun of!
O most holy lindalds: If the most important thing according to Smith in the "Manti Mormon Pageant Blasphemy 2008" YouTube video is to become gods, since the universe was created for you & your body is of infinite value, then you better have that desire to become just like your HF. If you don't, you aren't following your own prophet & are still a miserable sinner.
you still get thrown in hell cause you didn't accept Jesus as your Saviour" stuff. I mean, how confusing is it? You MUST accept Jesus or be thrown in hell, but if you don't know anything about Jesus, you will be judged on what you DO know, but of course, you didn't know Jesus so you get thrown in hell.."
Jesus taught most go to hell (Mt. 7:13-14). The Trinity is biblical even though the word isn't mentioned (neither is the word "Bible"). The Trinity teaches there's 1 Being who Created literally everything outside Himself, & that Being eternally exists in 3 different Persons (Isa. 44:24, Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18, Acts 5:3-4). Not all Christian denominations belief in the rapture, & that's a non-essential of the Faith. I hold to it since 1 Thes. 4:17 has the Latin translation "caught up" as "rapturo".
If you believe that Jesus is working in you, then you must also believe that SATAN is working in you too, because he works hardest against those he is losing. He's working just as hard, if not harder, than Jesus is. Jesus doesn't want you if you don't want Him. You MUST resist Satan, because HE won't resist you or Jesus.
The problem is that LDS aren't Christians since they have a distorted, false, weak, devalued Jesus. Just because others say they believe that Obama is Jesus for example doesn't make them Christians. Similarly just because LDS say they believe in Jesus who is 1 God among many gods (each of whom had to become exalted to godhood) doesn't mean they are Christians either. They are false Christians for such blasphemy. Jesus warned us of false Christs (Mt. 24:24) & LDS certainly have one.
Or, IOW, we don't believe as YOU do, therefore, we aren't Christians.
Besides, you don't even describe Jesus the way we do.
You can say we are or we aren't, but it really doesn't matter, waht you say. We know we are Christians. God knows we are Christians. and if you want to fight us, then you are only fighting against God. That's waht Satan does, he divides the house of God.
The Jesus of the Bible wasn't our, or Lucifer's, elder brother in a pre-earth life. The Jesus of the Bible created all of us (Col. 1:13-18). The Jesus of the Bible didn't have to grow up to become a God since He was God from the beginning (Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18). LDS have a false Jesus & are thus false Christians following their real lord to hell.
And, you aren't taking into account what Nephi was talking about. That they had to follow the LAW of MOSES, because Christ had not yet been born. So, Nephi says, We know that it's by Grace, even after we follow the Law the best we can, trying to BE perfect, knowing that WE can't do it alone, the LAW does not save us, God's GRACE does. That's what he's saying.
Of course we have to follow the law now as then, but we never do it so that we can be worthy enough to get God's grace. Nephi doesn't say what your saying, since he also said that God would never give us something to do that we can't do (1 Ne. 3:7). Alma 5:27-8 says that you must strip yourself of pride and be sufficiently humble in order to be cleansed and prepared to meet God. Since we always have sin, then no one will be prepared to meet God. He can't save them in their sins (Alma 11:37).
Keeping the law isn't a requirement for righteousness despite what D&C 1:32 says. The law is a schoolmaster (Gal. 3:24) to reveal to one that you needs God's grace & be justified by faith, not of the law (3:11). That's why Rom. 4:4-6 says that working gets reward, but justification is instead of grace, not of works. God justifies the ungodly, not the godly despite what mormonanswerman and you say.
D&C 25 says you've got to keep the commandments continually to get the crown of righteousness & be with the Lord. Are you doing that? Will you get that crown & be with the Lord? Have you sinned today? Are your sins forgiven? Do you fear condemnation? D&C 58:42-43 says that we only know if you've repented if you confess & forsake them. Have you forsaken them? Remember that D&C 82:7: if you sin again, then all your former sins return. You're deceiving yourselves if you think you can do this.
D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.
16 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my voice unto all. Amen.
We are not perfect, but we are trying. That's why there is repentance and forgiveness.
There is a difference between committing sin (active) and sinning (passive). There will always be little slip-ups, but one can forsake murder, fornication, stealing, etc.
James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." We're all guilty of all and without Christ, we're under condemnation. In Christ, there is no more condemnation. We are free in Him, & He changes us as we continue to trust Him. We are no longer dead, but have been made alive in Him. This is the peace that only the believer has with God (Rom. 5:1). Since we have the Son, we "know" that we have eternal life (1 Jn. 5:10-13). LDS don't.
Don't you see? You're talking at cross purposes here.
We don't follow the Law of Moses! We follow the Law of the GOSPEL! That means that, if we screw up, and we WILL screw up, we can ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive us, if we repent and try not to sin. We WILL sin, but we can try to NOT sin. And the more we try to NOT sin, the easier it is to repent when we do, and to feel God's forgiveness. But, if we keep sinning the same sin over and over, He might not forgive it over time.
Your prophet Spencer W. Kimball said, "Trying is not sufficient. Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin" (Miracle of Forgiveness, 164). Was he a false prophet or was he just stupid? D&C is clear that you sin again, & all the former sins come back to you (82:7). You still have to forsake them (58:43), not just "try" to. LDS gospel is impossible.
D&C 1:32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;
This verse says nothing about the Law of Moses (Gal. 3:24). It says the COMMANDMENTS of the LORD. For instance, the rich young man in the Bible whom Jesus told, to sell all and give to the poor, to be perfect. He couldn't and Jesus said, the rich man will not enter heaven. There is a difference between following the commandments of the Law and the commandments of Christ.
The commandments were given through Moses as a prophet of the Lord. The rich man couldn't keep all the commandments of the Lord as no one can, since we're all sinners in need of the only 1 who fulfilled all the commandments of the Lord given through all His prophets.
That's the essence. Trust Jesus as God, or trust his wealth. One can't have 2 masters. So once the choice is made for Jesus, then whatever He says goes. The choice is an intellectual movement that naturally results in good works. If the rich guy repented, but died before he was able to sell everything, he would have been in the presence of the Father. BTW, since Jesus is a separate God from the F, & you can't have 2 masters, who's yours?
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28). "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Rom. 11:6). That's why all your own righteousness is filthy rags (Isa. 64:6).
You still fall short of God's glory, and like the rest are a miserable sinner, who doesn't keep the commandments continually. Do you ever speed? The New Testament says that we are to be subject to the government (Rom. 13:1). If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth isn't in us (1 Jn. 1:8). Thus, you aren't going to keep the commandments continually like the D&C advocates, and you won't get the crown of life. The focus is still on your worthiness rather than Christ's.
If I speed all the time, if I don't try to keep it down, then it doesn't matter how much I say Sorry, or whatever, the government isn't going to forgive me.
If I commit adultery, and I repent, God will forgive me.
However, if I go back and do it again, and again, and again, am I really sorry for what I did? Why should God forgive me for doing over and over again waht He has told me not to do? Prt of repenting is to forsake your sin.
Are you sorry you did it, or just sorry you got caught?
You're assuming that D&C 58:43 is true. I know that repentance need not be perfect, & God matures our faith or repentance. God forgives, since the payment of the debt was completely paid for, not because we're so good at overcoming any particular sin.
The way you talk here, you make it sound like, oh, what the hell? I'm a sinner, so I might as well enjoy it.
Or at least, just try not to feel guilt over it, because God forgives me anyway.
Do you really think that, if you steal something from your boss or co-worker, or even a family member, and you repent, but you keep doing it over and over, that God is going to keep forgiving you over and over?
I don't. I'm gonna try NOT to sin. Doesn't mean I will succeed, but I will be trying.
I would never say enjoy your sin. I'd say you'll be miserable in it & you should do whatever it takes to stop it... even plucking your eye out if it causes you to stumble as Jesus said. But I have peace that Jesus is in me & He's at work in me on His time table, not mine. I can trust Him for everything. That's the peace I have that you don't have. Why would I want to give that up? Remember that according to your prophet & scripture, you must forsake & trying is insufficient.
The way you talk, tho, says that we are not responsible for anything we do. You know, "The devil made me do it!" sort of mentality. Doesn't matter if I screw up, even if I screw up bad, God forgives me. Means we don't have to keep ourselves under any sort of self-control.
I don't know what would give you this idea. Just because God forgives all that we've done doesn't entail that we think it's not really our sin & that Satan made us do it. Since He's completely paid our debt & given us life, we have a new heart now. We thus have new desires to please Him. We want to struggle well w/ our sin & trust God to change us. But we simply aren't trusting in our performance so that we can be worthy enough for God's grace. We realize we never can be. Jesus alone is worthy.
So, you still don't even TRY to be without sin? You can, you know. God is not going to hold it against us if we try to be what He wants us to be. It has ntohing to do with SELF-righteousness. And nothing to with humility because if we are like the Pharisees, then we have our reward here, and won't get it in heaven. We try to not sin so that we can be stronger, and feel the spirit more. Not to brag to others, or to ourselves.
I'm not trying to live w/out sin. I'm trusting Christ to mature/perfect me more into His image, knowing that in this life I'll never be sinless in my flesh. My perfection or maturity in this life may only be relative to other sinners. Relative to Christ, I'm a dirt bag. In Christ though I'm counted as perfect & I know He's living in me to make me more like Him even though I'll struggle w/ sin my whole earthly life.
You majorly screw up every day as far as God's concerned, since the smallest infraction makes you guilty of all the law (James 2:10). You don't do a good job with arguing from what God has said in His word. You simply philosophize. My debt is completely paid. I have peace, but you're still wondering if you'll do all that you can do to make it into the presence of the Father.
IF you follow the Law of Moses, THEN you break one, you break them all.
I do NOT wonder if I will do all that I can do, because I KNOW I'm doing all that I can do.
God does NOT require from us MORE than what we are able to give. Or do. He does not ask us to run faster, jump higher or do more than what we can do. So, if we do what we know we can, then what more can we do?
Nothing. We are doing all we can do. We can't do more than what we can do.
You deceive yourself if you say you're doing all that you can do. If that were the case according to 1 Ne. 3:7, then you wouldn't be sinning every day like you do. You're a miserable sinner who is not forsaking sin as D&C 58:43 says & continually keeping the commands as D&C 25:15 says.
I KNOW you are reading more into that verse than what is there. That says NOTHING about being perfect, as in no sinning what so ever.
Forsaking sin is not hard, you just choose not to when you are given a choice.
BUT, if you DO choose wrong, then you CAN repent of your sins and you CAN be forgiven! It's that simple! But, you can't, say, steal money from your brother, then repent, return the money, ask forgiveness, get it, then turn around and steal again! and again! and again! At some point
2 Nephi 25:23 does NOT say that we must do all we can do to get God's grace. This guy needs to read the Book of Mormon. I would hate to shout my ignorance in front of God and everyone.
Good message. We all should pray and read the scriptures more than we do. Perhaps if they knew the Bible more completely they'd see that the Book of Mormon is ANOTHER WITNESS and complements, not detracts. If one can recognize the voice of the Lord in the Bible, they will hear it in each page of the Book of Mormon, too.
And, one of the big reasons I joined the LDS church is because I find it to be the most Biblical church.
It's interesting how so many anti-Mormons seem to think that, if we would JUST read our Bible we would see how wrong we are. But, the more I read my Bible (AND the Book of Mormon) I know that I am right where God wants me.
lindalds: The God of the Bible isn't a man (Hos. 11:9) who had to grow up to become a God for simply this world or set of worlds. The God of the Bible didn't have to get a wife to become God. He didn't have to follow some other God before Him before He could become a god. The God of the Bible doesn't know of any God beside Him, since He's always been God, the Creator of literally everything outside Himself (Ps. 90:2, Isa. 40:12-28, 43:10, 44:6-8, 24, Jn. 17:3).
God's first commandment was, thou shalt have no OTHER GODS before me. He could not have been speaking of idols, because the second specifically mentions Graven images.
The Israelites were taken captive many times. It's reasonable that they assimilated, and some ended up worshipipng "other gods". God said that He knows of no other god besides Him. If He had said, there are other gods, not yours, tho, but don't worship any others, how confusing is that? So, He just says, There's only me.
I don't see the difference between idols and graven images. The fact is that LDS have a different God, viz., one who's not big enough to create literally everything outside Himself. Joseph Smith taught God had a God before Him. LDS scripture teaches that Gods helped each other out in laying out the heavens and the earth (Abraham 4-5), but God said He did it alone & by Himself (Isa. 44:24). LDS worship a man who became exalted for us. That's blasphemous & certainly not the God of the Bible.
Ok, I'm confused now. (non-LDS) Christians say that God is three persons. Three in One in three, whatever.
But then, you say, ONLY GOD created the world and everything, all by HIMself. Shouldn't you be saying soemthing like God created the world all by THEMselves? or soemthing like that? If GOD is three persons, then it should be a THEMselves, not a HIMself, right?
lindalds: Either way is fine by me. If you want to emphasize the 1 being who created everything, then you speak in terms of "Him." If you want to emphasize the plurality of Persons within this Being, then you can say "them." What is fundamental is that they aren't 3 separate Gods who are 1 simply in purpose & nature. The Bible is clearly against this. They are also 1 in the being they eternally share.
The problem w/ referring to this being as a committee or some other sort of team is that the term "Him" is used of this being. Teams are "they" or "it," not "Him." If you only pray to the HF, then you do worship them separately, & for LDS they are separate personages and Gods as your former apostle McConkie referred to them in Mormon Doctrine 576-7. LDS view them as independent just as their 1st presidency is made of independent human who function in 1 purpose.
Further for LDS, God hasn't always been God. He became exalted to that position. Further, the HF hasn't always been the F, since He had to impregnate a wife before He could have a son. Further, since LDS believe we were all intelligence prior to being born of heavenly parents, the Son hasn't always been the Son. This is certainly not the Christian God.
Well it sure seems to have captivated you! Check out the various outreach events we've done to various groups on the Pictures page of CourageousChristiansUnited[dot]org. You may also want to Google us and read some articles of what we've done with different groups. Nonetheless, just as doctors specialize in various fields, we specialize and have a passion for the sick suffering from Mormonism the most! Paul was an "apostle to the Gentiles" after all.
I think this is the only way you can have a 'captive audience'.
I seriously would like to see you do the same thing in front of a Muslim Synogogue or Jewish Mosque, because according to you they are just as "lost:" as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Why not treat all people equally and not display such bigoted behaviour only to one group? Just saying...
After salvation/justification, God works in us to bring us more into the image of His Son Jesus. This is called sanctification and this process of sanctification is very difficult because it involves our repentance and submission to God's will. But, whether or not we do well or not in sanctification, it does not affect our justification. We are made right in God's eyes by faith in Christ (justification) and made more like Jesus in our lives afterwards (sanctification).
After we are then made right before God, we are changed in our hearts and then desire to do that which is right before God from within because we are new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We then are able to freely serve God, love Him, and keep His commandments out of appreciation and gratitude to God, not to please God so we can be saved.
It is truly good news to know that we do not have to keep the Law, don't have to do all we can do, etc. All we need to do is accept that Jesus alone is our only hope and that we must, by faith, accept His work on the cross for the complete forgiveness of our sins. We must receive the righteousness of Jesus and not seek to achieve our own because we simply can't do it.
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith," (Romans 9:30). This is the true gospel, that righteousness is received by faith in Christ and that we are not obligated to keep the law in order to be saved...(or exalted, if you are LDS).
Real Christians know what the real gospel is and they know that they cannot keep the Law, can't do all they can do, can't be perfect, and can't triumph over sin. They can only trust in the righteousness of Jesus and receive Him by faith .
John 1:12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name"
I would like to add here, that if anyone says that the gospel is anything other than what it is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, they are blinded by the devil.
"and even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God," (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
But, praise be to God that "...while we were sinners, Christ died for us," (Romans 5:8). You see, Jesus became sin on our behalf so that we, by faith, might become the righteousness of God, (2 Corinthians 5:21). This leads us to precisely what the gospel is.
The real gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, not the Laws and Ordinances of the Mormon Church.
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures," (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Justification is the legal declaration by God where God declares the sinner righteous in His sight. Notice that this justification is by faith, not by keeping the Law in any way; that is, not by doing all you can do, not by triumphing over sin, and not by being perfect. The reason for this is because no one (except Jesus) can keep the whole Law, triumph over sin, and be perfect.
unless you can be absolutely perfect in all things pertaining to the Law, you will be cast into outer darkness.
Galatians 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Does the gospel of the Bible really teach that forgiveness of sins is based, even in part, upon our obedience to the Law's and Ordinances of any church and that we are to be perfect? No it does not.
Romans 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
I sincerely sympathize with the LDS who are seeking to please God, honor Him, and bring glory to Him by trying to obey His commandments. However, when all is said and done and in the quite of there own heart, when they face the reality of God and his lack of holiness and perfection, can anyone say he has done all he can do, has triumphed over sin, and is perfect? Of course not.
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all," (James 2:10).
"For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them, (Gal. 3:10).
it is not after all we can do. we are saved through Jesus and Jesus alone we are saved.not by works least any man can boast. that is a slap in the face to all Christians and god to think we can work or way one inch closer to salvation the blood of Jesus alone gets us to heaven.you better get your priorities strait and put Jesus first and forget the lie of works.Jesus is the way the truth and the light anyone who tries to come any other way is as a thief in the night.
We do not need to be perfect. No one will ever be during this mortal probation. It is after all we can possibly do that the Lord fills in the rest for us.
You are skewed in your perceptions of the book of mormon, my dear brothers and sisters.
"You must do all you can do"
Romans 1:5 teaches we're given grace for our obedience, which involves actions, to the faith. Sorry protester but what you attack is supported in the Bible.
majinish 6 months ago
This guy forgot that Jesus said to be perfect as the Father in the book of Matthew.
majinish 9 months ago
Seems prideful to want to film yourself preaching... but maybe its more for show and less about being Christ-like.
troybank 1 year ago
@troybank My thoughts as well. I always wonder why these guys seem to really enjoy filming themselves.
myway43 1 year ago
Since LDS don't pray to Jesus as well as to the Father, they aren't Christians. Jesus receives both worship and prayer, and we are commanded to do so (Mt. 4:10; 28:16-20; Jn. 5:18-23; 14:14, New American Standard Version and in the best Greek manuscripts; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2; and 1 Jn. 5:13-15).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Mt. 4:10, no, says worship the Lord thy God.
This is from our Guide to the Scriptures, about worship:
"Love, reverence, service, and devotion for God (D&C 20: 19). Worship includes prayer, fasting, church service, participating in gospel ordinances, and other practices that show devotion and love for God."
John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name,
That's what we do, we pray to Heavenly Father, IN THE NAME OF CHRIST.
Nothing said PRAY to Jesus. JESUS said, pray to the FATHER.
lindalds 2 years ago
That's why I cited Jn. 14:14 from the NAS or the Greek text. The King James that you cite doesn't do a good job here as other versions. The Greek literally says, "If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." This is also supported by the other passages I listed. Jesus is God (Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18 & Rom. 9:5), so you should worship Him as you define it. He is just as much God as the Father is, but the Father isn't the Son.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
And we do ask IN HIS NAME. When we pray, we pray to the Father, in the name of the Son.
lindalds 2 years ago
So do we, but we also pray directly to Jesus as Jesus told us too & as Stephen demonstrated in Acts 7:59.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Stephen didn't pray so much as called out to what he saw.
lindalds 2 years ago
I see Jesus when I pray, so I talk with Him. Again, Jesus tells us to ask Him in the Greek of Jn. 14:14. His apostles tell us to call upon Him in 1 Cor. 1:2 & 1 Jn. 5:13-15. This is another reason why LDS aren't Christians. They have no personal relationship w/ Jesus in which they pray directly to Him.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
He never said to pray to Him, He told us, pray to Heavenly Father.
What, pray tell, IS a "personal relationship with Jesus"? They kept telling me about that growing up and I always felt SO left out because I knew I was saved, and I did accept Jesus a my saviour, but I couldn't get that HIGH that they kept talking about. I just don't see Jesus as a drug. And that's what this "personal relationship" was.
lindalds 2 years ago
You don't know Jesus like you don't know my mom. You don't have a personal relationship w/ either. You don't spend time talking to either. You don't hang out w/ either. You need to repent of the cult your in & live for Jesus. Let Him be your master. BTW, you can't have more than 1 master according to Him (Mt. 6:24).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Well, YOU don't know me, or whatever relationship i have with God or jesus or anyone else. So, don't judge me.
lindalds 2 years ago
I know enough of what you said to let your own words condemn you, viz., you don't have a personal relationship w/ Jesus since you don't even talk directly to Him.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
And you're more of a credible source than your prophets, particularly Joseph Smith & Lorenzo Snow? All LDS believe there's a Heavenly Mother--they even sing to her in "O My Father." What does God need her for?
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
What we believe, and what THE CHURCH teaches and believes as doctrine and precept, are sometimes two different things.
We believe we have a Heavenly Mother because logically, if we have a Father, we have a Mother, too. But it's not scriptural.
lindalds 2 years ago
It's not scriptural all right. In fact, it goes against scripture, since God's not a man of any sort and has to be exalted by being sealed to a wife (Hos. 11:9 & Ps. 90:2). God's not that needy.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Who said anything about God being needy? or that He is a man? He is not a man, like we are, even tho He does have an exalted body of flesh and bone.
If man doesn't need woman and woman doesn't need man, in the next life, then why did God not only create man and woman, but sanctify marriage? Why does Paul say that man is not without the woman and woman is not without the man IN THE LORD?
Whether God NEEDS to be sealed to a wife, is up to Him.
lindalds 2 years ago
Your own prophets have said God's needy. Since as Snow said, "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be," then God needed things to be exalted. This is blasphemous. God isn't an exalted man. He's always been God, the creator of literally everything outside Himself. There is no marriage (neither ceremony nor a state of being) in the after life either. Jesus was quite clear about that in Mt. 22.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
I think you're reading more into this than what's there.
And Jesus never said NO ONE is married in the resurrection, only those who don't believe in the resurrection, like the Saducees. Why would they ask Him which man the woman would be married to, if it was not an accepted belief among other Jews? He told them, she won't be married to any of them because you don't believe in the resurrection, and in the resurrection, she won't get the chance.
lindalds 2 years ago
What is there is the question of whose husband will this wife have in the resurrection. The obvious answer from the LDS perspective that Jesus should have said was: "It depends on whom she was sealed to in the temple." Since Jesus didn't say that, but said that we'll be like the angels in heaven, then according to D&C 132:17, we'll all be single.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
He didn't say that, because, since the Saducees didn't believe in the resurrection, then they would not have had her sealed to any of those brothers. They were counting on it being done in the resurrection IF there was a resurrection. They didn't believe in sealing for all eternity, since they didn't believe in all eternity. Don't you see?
lindalds 2 years ago
How could they count on it being done in the resurrection if there was a resurrection? They didn't believe in an afterlife, & that's why Jesus tells them they do err in not knowing the scriptures. There is an afterlife & there people are single, not married, since they are as the angels. Jesus could have easily answered this question by saying it depends on whom she was sealed to in the temple. The problem is that they didn't do eternal marriage sealing in the temple.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
They knew that they were probably the only ones who did not believe in the resurrection. everyone else did. Jesus did. That's why they asked him that question. They knew he believed in the resurrection and obviously they knew that he believed in marriage after the resurrection. Otherwise, they would never have asked him that question, because they wanted to trip him up, not make him look stupid.
lindalds 2 years ago
So, if we aren't to be married in the afterlife, then what is the purpose of male and female, marriage, and all that? if we don't need it in heaven, why do we need it in this life?
lindalds 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds: One of the primary reasons is to raise children. We don't raise children in the next life. Their won't be spirit kids to receive worship from. They are single... as the angels. The woman could have very easily got sealed if that's what they did back then, but Jesus never answered it that way. That would have put an end to the question. Instead, Jesus refutes them by saying there's an afterlife & in it they are as the angels.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
I don't expect worship from any of my kids.
And I don't see why marriage is so important in this life if it's not important in the next. You don't need marriage to have kids, people have kids all hte time without being married. Are they going to hell because they aren't married? You don't even think it's a sin, do you?
lindalds 2 years ago
If you are working to Godhood for your own world like your God did for this world, then you should expect that your spirit-kids will worship you to the exclusion of the God of this world. Since you don't worship your spirit-grandfather, your spirit-kids, if you become a god, won't worship our God either. They'll simply worship you.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
You can assUme all you want about what I believe, but you couldn't be more wrong.
And to make fun of something like some little kid on the playground, that's just showing how scared you are that what we believe just might be right after all.
I guess we just consider the source.
lindalds 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds: If you don't follow the LDS prophets, then you're not a good Mormon. Did you see the Manti video? Do you believe what that says about the most important thing? You belong to a blasphemous cult that thinks the most important thing is becoming gods like all gods have done before us. Run from false prophets!
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
a MORmON telling someone else that they could not be more wrong ...........
genexrollins 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds: Of course you don't need marriage to have kids, but if you want kids raised to their potential best, then you need marriage. It's the bedrock of our society.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
In theory, yes.
But, if society says it's not necessary (and society today IS starting to say that it's not necessary), then your theory goes out the door.
Society says that marriage is not necessary. But, you know who the ones are that are fighting hardest FOR marriage?
Homosexuals.
Do you know what's wrong with this picture?
itsrachelbreh 2 years ago
Society is going to hell, so why should they be the final say as to what's right? I know that a mother and father in a marriage relation is the best for kids... and btw, the history of western society agrees with me.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
genexrollins 2 years ago
Are you a Christian?
Do you think that this sort of attitude is going to make me see the error of my ways?
Do you honestly think that calling me names is the best way to show the Love of Christ?
lindalds 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
genexrollins 2 years ago
Like I said. If you call yourself a Christian, you are not representing any god or christ I want anything to do with.
And if you are not a Christian, you prove my theory correct that, if the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is not the true Church of Christ, then said church does not exist.
lindalds 2 years ago
A MORmON using the word "proof"
Very Funny!
So top yourself ! NOW do that thing where LDSs bring up bigotry as a defense of your church. That is even better/more whacky.
genexrollins 2 years ago
Why do you think I'm going to be impressed or whatever, by calling me stupid names? It's really rather juvenile.
lindalds 2 years ago
the part where you talk about Chirstian, or not, is very funny, as you pretend to be Christian. Sorry that does not work here!
We know all about your temple blood oaths & secret handshakes.
"Pay! Lay! Ale!" & "Health in the Navel" !
Jesus is very offended by your nasty LDS cult corporation posing as his church.
genexrollins 2 years ago
I never took any oaths in the temple, blood or otherwise.
James 5:12
Oh, and when did Jesus use you to speak for Him to me? I never got that memo.
lindalds 2 years ago
Jesus DOES find the filthy LDS cult to be offensive, LindaLDS. If you think there is a message in that for you, then it is your matter to deal with, NOT mine. You should be far more concerned with your initial impression on the matter than in following up with your DUMB ASS comments that you thought were clever.
as well you would be far better off to start questioning OTHER "Jesus" messages to you, namely those by liars that dare use the title of "apostle" in modern times.
genexrollins 2 years ago
Jesus taught Be Ye Therefore Perfect. We gladly accept this doctrine that Jesus taught. Why can't the other christian denominations accept this and try His works to do?
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Christians do accept Mt. 5:48. Have you ever thought that perhaps they understand something different about it than you do? Christians love to be like their Father in heaven. In contrast to LDS though, they don't think they can do all they can do until they receive the grace of God. This is the peace we have w/ God that LDS don't get. They have no assurance that when they die they'll be with the Father. Christians do, not because they are worthy, but because the Worthy One took our place.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
If you understand BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT as something different than I do, than that what is actually said there, can you explain why you want to change the words to mean something else? What else could it mean?
Gen. 6:9 ...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
Hmmm.
Gen. 17:1 ...the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Hmmm. Not a new idea here.
POSSIBLE: Yes!
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Deut. 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord thy God.
1 Kgs. 8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the Lord our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.
Job 2:3 ...Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity...
THAT's the definition of perfect in the Lord.
DO THAT. Its possible.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
mormonanswerman: You don't read very carefully, so continuing this may be a waste of time. Again, Christians agree we should be perfect, but the intention is different from what LDS have in mind. Christians are perfect in Christ. With their devalued Jesus, LDS are in sin & can never please God, & all their righteousness are as filthy rags (Isa. 64:6). LDS are unbelievers, & as Pharisees, they think they are worthy before God when they are children of the devil (Jn. 8:44).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
As soon as you want to quit the discussion that is your choice, but I will continue until you block me. Here goes.
You say that you are perfect in Christ, then if that were true, why can I not see or experience YOUR perfection (you don't look perfect at all to me, and it looks like you are angry when you speak about frustrating things about mormonism as you see it).
If that's perfection, I don't want any part of it. Can you see that? You are NOT emulating what I think of Christ, but a human.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Me, on the other hand, I don't claim to be perfect now, but I am WORKING on it, one fault at a time. Believe me, I have made progress. You should have seen me in my 20's. There HAS been progress. I expect to be at my most humble perfection in my 90's.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
It seems nonsense to say that christians are "perfect in Christ" when we have preachers that engage in homosexual acts, prostitution, drugs and scandal, all while on TV stating how saved and perfect they are, and "righteous." It lends to the cynical view of their so-called perfection in Christ. In fact, it is a stumbling block to all those atheists out there who see bad examples and consider us all hypocrites as a whole. That's sad and frustrating, the wrong impression, wrong example.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Ps. 11:3: "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" You have no foundation to be perfect since you don't believe in the God/Jesus of the Bible. Good luck being perfect without this foundation. Even in your 90s, you'll still be a miserable sinner in need of grace apart from works. 1 Jn. 1:9 says, "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Heb. 10:14 says, "by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Of course that scripture in John 1:9 means that everyone HAS sinned. But it does not mean that you can't overcome sin. You can. I have shown you sciptures of where Abraham, Noah, Job, etc., have overcome sin, and the BIBLE says they were PERFECT.
Its time for christians to STOP making excuses for their sins, and give them up. Be perfect, like Christ commanded in Matt 5:48
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Actually, it was 1 Jn. 1:8 that I was referring to which is in the present tense. I *have* been cleansed of all sin (past tense in v. 9), because I have confessed what a lousy sinner I am. It's not because of my works. Christians debase themselves & glory in the cross. LDS and other Pharisees exalt themselves (cf. Jesus' parable in Lk. 18:10ff. You exalt yourselves you'll be abased [v. 14]). The Christian's perfection is in Christ (Heb. 10:14), & He continues to make us more like Himself.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Christians aren't advocating making excuses for their sins. They are forgiven & trusting God to make them more into the sort of people He desires. I am perfect... in Christ. He who knew no sin became sin for us that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor. 5:21). Now the life I live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God. He lives in me & demonstrates the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 2:20, 5:22ff.). That doesn't mean I don't sin every day. I do. Christians can be authentic.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Noah was perfect in Gen. 6:9, but after the flood he still sinned & got drunk. He still made it in the hall of faith in Heb. 11. Note that this is after Heb. 10:12-14. Paul had a righteousness by faith apart from works (Rom. 3:28, 4:4-6), but still sinned. Read Rom. 7. He said he continued to sin even though he didn't want to in his spirit. Nonetheless, in Rom. 8:1 he confidently declared he wasn't worried about condemnation, since he was "in Christ" & nothing would separate this (vss. 28-39).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
We don't do works trying to get what God gives us for free. We do what Jesus commands of us. I don't see how you think we "devalue" Jesus. How can it devalue Him to follow Him and do waht He commands?
We are not like the Pharisees, we are told that humility is one of the most important things we should be.
lindalds 2 years ago
According to the video "Manti Mormon Pageant Blasphemy 2008," the most important thing in Mormonism is man's exaltation into becoming a god. That's not humility; that's exalting yourself. That's not the way of the cross. Moroni 10:4 also says you don't get God's grace until you deny yourself all ungodliness and love God w/ all your heart. If that's the case, then no one will ever get it. LDS devalue Jesus by making Him not the Creator of everything outside Himself.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Correction: it's Moroni 10:32, not 10:4.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
The most important thing is to honor and worship God by becoming what He wants us to be. And yes, there is humility involved. Anyone who does this for selfish reasons will not attain exaltation.
Denying all ungodliness does not equate to perfection, but to striving for perfection (completeness). We cannot boast of what we do right because we are not perfect, and bragging is two steps back for every one step forward.
Jesus IS the creator of everything outside Himself.
lindalds 2 years ago
Since LDS don't know if they have eternal life, they focus on themselves... their works. Have they done enough to make it into the presence of the Father? To claim yes is to boast. To hope they've done enough is to boast. It's all self-centered. Eph. 2:8-10: it's not about boasting. Grace isn't of our merits. LDS don't think Jesus created Lucifer since they teach they're brothers in a pre-earth life. LDS Jesus didn't create matter/intelligences, since they're eternal. Lots He didn't create.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
We know we have eternal life.
If we know we haven't "done enough", then we probably haven't. But, what is "enough"? Is there such a thing?
Sometimes, what we do is "all we can do", and that has to be enough. God told Nephi that He will not ask us to do anything we can't do. If He asks us to not kill, not commit adultery, not steal, etc., that must mean that it's possible to NOT DO those things.
lindalds 2 years ago
Knowing that you have eternal life has nothing to do with our being worthy enough. It has everything to do with whether we have the Son or not (1 Jn. 5:10-13). If you have Him, then you ought to know you have it. If you don't, then you don't have eternal death. Most of the world doesn't have the Son, & that's why they go to hell (Mat. 7:13-14). You need to believe in order to get eternal life (Jn. 3:16). LDS don't believe. They want to show how worthy they are, & trust in a weak Jesus.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Correction:
We don't believe as you do.
lindalds 2 years ago
could you have learned more about what Mormons really believe?
Absolutely! WAY more.
lindalds 2 years ago
lindals: Couldn't everyone learn more about what LDS believe? Even LDS can learn more about their own doctrine.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Yes, you are right, but, what you must remember is, that what Mormons believe, and what some people THINK Mormons believe are sometimes two different things.
lindalds 2 years ago
1Ne 3:7 "I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."
We do what we can. We don't do more than we can do, than God gives us the means to accomplish.
I don't ask if I prayed enough, but I do ask, did I listen for and to God enough after my prayer.
lindalds 2 years ago
lindalds: We do what we can isn't good enough. It's we must do all that we can do, and according to 1 Ne. 3:7 we should be able to do everything. So if you don't do everything, according to 2 Ne. 25:23, you don't get God's grace.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Alma 24:11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—
Sometimes, like the anti-Nephi-Lehis, all we can do is repent of our sins, and turn from ungodliness. Will we still sin? Yes, but, we can repent, and we can
lindalds 2 years ago
lindalds: this doesn't seem to fit w/ D&C 42:18 that says there's no forgiveness in this life nor the life to come for killing. If that's true, then Moses, Saul, David, and all those who have hated their brethren (since Jesus taught that's equivalent to murder) will never have forgiveness. That's not good news, & thus, it's not the gospel.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Nothing in the D&C is meant to pass judgment on anyone in the Bible.
D&C 42:18 And now, behold, I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come.
See, God is speaking to the church of that day (and today), that WE are not to kill, or WE will have no forgiveness. Are you saying, then, that if WE DO kill someone, WE will still be forgiven, even tho God has said WE won't?
lindalds 2 years ago
Yes, if I have a bad day & kill, then Christ already paid for it. He paid for *all* my sins. The LDS Jesus doesn't. The Book of Mormon passage you gave along with many Bible passages indicates that killing is forgivable (e.g., 2 Sam. 12:13, 2 Cor. 5:14-21). Only the God of the D&C has said that killing is unforgivable. The God of the Bible forgives of all sin, and works in believers lives to make them more like Himself even though they'll have bad days.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Ah, I C.
Yes, He PAID for those sins, but WE must repent of those sins if we are to be forgiven.
Actually, God said in the D&C that He will forgive whom He will forgive. If He wants to forgive someone for murder, He will. But, WE can't assume that He has done this. We also believe that death is not the end, that once you die, all choice is gone, and all opportunity is gone. That's not the case.
And there ARE sins that cannot be forgiven, such as apostasy, and blasphemy against the HG.
lindalds 2 years ago
He's already told you that He paid for all sins, so the believer or repenter's confidence is totally in the cross. The D&C may say He will forgive whom He will, but He's clearly told us one group He won't forgive, viz., those who kill. For those, there's no forgiveness in this life or in the life to come (42:18). That's not Christianity. Apostasy or blasphemy of HG are simply instances of those who truly haven't repented. So of course there's no forgiveness if the debt isn't received.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
So, if you, or I, goes out today, and just shoots someone dead, for some stupid reason. Knowing what we know.
God will forgive that? Just like that?
lindalds 2 years ago
I already said yes to me, since I'm born-again, a child of God. For you, since you're dead in God's eyes, your sins remain w/ you, & will condemn you. 2 Sam. 12:13 makes it clear that David's sin of adultery & murder were forgiven. Your insignificant sin makes you guilty of all the law in God's eyes (James 2:10). D&C 42:18 is a lie from Satan & isn't good news for all the billions who have committed it. Again, God lets everyone know through nature that murder is a sin (Rom. 1:18ff.).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Further, Heb. 9:27 says that after this life is judgment. It's not the opportunity for a second chance. Further, Alma 34:32-35 agrees with this.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Those who did not get a chance in life, get that chance after death.
lindalds 2 years ago
What's the argument for second chance after this life? God's already given a knowledge of Himself in nature, Rom. 1:18ff. says, so that the judgment happens after this life. Again, there's appointed 1 life, and after it, the judgment, not the second chance (Heb. 9:27). Even the Book of Mormon agrees with this (Alma 34:32-35).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
So, even if a person never hears the name of Jesus Christ, they can still be saved?
Alma says that IF you know the gospel of Jesus Christ, you must accept it now or be damned. But, if one has never heard the name of Jesus Christ, and there ARE those who have never heard of Him or his gospel, they WLL get that chance. if not in this life, then in the next.
lindalds 2 years ago
Where does Alma 34:32-35 mention "the gospel of Jesus Christ"? The passage is consistent with Rom. 1:18ff. that speaks of judgment for those who don't repent in this life. That presupposes they *can* repent due to the knowledge God gives of Himself through the "things that are made." The just shall live by faith. Hebrews says that w/out faith, it's impossible to please God, & that if any come to Him, they must believe in Him & that He's a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
What's the argument here? A chance for what? I grant that if someone doesn't hear of Jesus and they repent of their sin & trust God, then they get the chance to know Jesus after this life. But this isn't the same as saying like LDS that they have a chance to get saved or become worthy before God in the next life. Everyone w/ their faculties functioning properly gets that chance in this life. So if you die w/out repenting from Mormonism, you won't get a chance to repent in the next life.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
No one is going to burn in hell for joining the wrong denomination or whatever. God isn't that petty.
Many people live the gospel, even tho they don't know anything about it. And despite what many Christians say, those people are not going to hell either. You can say that God is not going to hole it against those who have never heard the gospel but are good people who live the gospel principles, etc. But, 99% of all Christians I talk to will say "Doesn't matter how good they are,
lindalds 2 years ago
Again, it has nothing to do w/ how good one is, since Jesus said that none are good, except God (Lk. 18:19). It matter whether one repents of their sin & trusts God to change their life based on the info they've got to work w/. & Jesus says, contrary to your belief (minus any evidence), that most people are own the road to destruction (Mt. 7:13-14). Relatively few are on the path that leads to life.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
So, then, what? Screw it, let's live for today, cause tomorrow, we're dust?
You make no sense.
lindalds 2 years ago
You don't understand. You don't screw it. You trust Christ to work in you & do the work you can't do. You trust Him to pay the debt completely & then you trust Him to change you as He wills. You're too self-centered instead of Christ-centered. That's why the LDS Church isn't appealing to most people. Go to a Christian church, then go to an LDS church. There's a vast contrast on the attention given to Jesus.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
I grew up in a (non-LDS) christian church. what more do I need from them?
yes, there is a vast contrast. They follow teh creeds in what God and jesus are, and they are not Biblical.
God has told me, over and over, in many ways, that I am right where HE wants me to be, in HIS church.
lindalds 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds! Thank you for creating our world. Thank you for our food. Praise your name to the ends of the earth. Help us to be good LDS boys & girls so that we too can have our boys & girls pray to us some day too! This is what you expect to get some day from your spirit kids if you become a god for them, right?! This is what you traded Christianity for.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Oh, that's just wrong. No, that's NOT what I expect, nor is that what I want.
All I want is to be complete and happy like my Heavenly Father is. whatever else there is, that's something we'll find out later.
But, I traded "Christianity" with it's "believe exactly like me or you're gonna burn in hell" crap, the Trinity (which isn't Biblical) and the "rapture"(which isn't Biblical either) or it's "even if you don't know Jesus, God will judge you on what you do know, but
lindalds 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds! The HF is complete & happy & we are to be perfect like He is according to Jesus. "As man is God once was, as God is man may be" (Lorenzo Snow). Joseph Smith, "We've got to learn to be gods the same as all other gods have done" (Teachings of the Prophet JS). The Gospel Principles, until they recently changed it, said that our spirit kids will have the same relation to us as we have to our HF. So LDS are false, blasphemous prophets.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
well, if you WANT to HAVE POWER, or get others to worship you, then you are not EVEN going to get to BE a god.
And if you don't stop with the making fun, I'm not going to respond to you at all. don't be so juvenile.
lindalds 2 years ago
Mormonism is juvenile. What a joke to think that us humans can be exalted to being gods just like our HF is! This blasphemy deserves to be made fun of!
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
O most holy lindalds: If the most important thing according to Smith in the "Manti Mormon Pageant Blasphemy 2008" YouTube video is to become gods, since the universe was created for you & your body is of infinite value, then you better have that desire to become just like your HF. If you don't, you aren't following your own prophet & are still a miserable sinner.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Well, you are not my judge, as you are not God.
thank God.
lindalds 2 years ago
you still get thrown in hell cause you didn't accept Jesus as your Saviour" stuff. I mean, how confusing is it? You MUST accept Jesus or be thrown in hell, but if you don't know anything about Jesus, you will be judged on what you DO know, but of course, you didn't know Jesus so you get thrown in hell.."
WHAT??
lindalds 2 years ago
Jesus taught most go to hell (Mt. 7:13-14). The Trinity is biblical even though the word isn't mentioned (neither is the word "Bible"). The Trinity teaches there's 1 Being who Created literally everything outside Himself, & that Being eternally exists in 3 different Persons (Isa. 44:24, Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18, Acts 5:3-4). Not all Christian denominations belief in the rapture, & that's a non-essential of the Faith. I hold to it since 1 Thes. 4:17 has the Latin translation "caught up" as "rapturo".
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Hell is not necessarily eternal in that it's never ending. I just don't see God being so petty.
And all the others, it's your interpretation, and I don't see it myself. It's not there.
lindalds 2 years ago
If you believe that Jesus is working in you, then you must also believe that SATAN is working in you too, because he works hardest against those he is losing. He's working just as hard, if not harder, than Jesus is. Jesus doesn't want you if you don't want Him. You MUST resist Satan, because HE won't resist you or Jesus.
lindalds 2 years ago
If they don't accept Jesus as their Saviour, they're gonna burn in hell!"
And many Christians who say that other Christians are gonna burn in hell because they don't accept THEIR version of Christianity.
God isn't petty. He's just AND merciful. And HE is our final judge, not others who presume to judge for Him.
I don't believe that non-Mormons are going to hell.
lindalds 2 years ago
The problem is that LDS aren't Christians since they have a distorted, false, weak, devalued Jesus. Just because others say they believe that Obama is Jesus for example doesn't make them Christians. Similarly just because LDS say they believe in Jesus who is 1 God among many gods (each of whom had to become exalted to godhood) doesn't mean they are Christians either. They are false Christians for such blasphemy. Jesus warned us of false Christs (Mt. 24:24) & LDS certainly have one.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Or, IOW, we don't believe as YOU do, therefore, we aren't Christians.
Besides, you don't even describe Jesus the way we do.
You can say we are or we aren't, but it really doesn't matter, waht you say. We know we are Christians. God knows we are Christians. and if you want to fight us, then you are only fighting against God. That's waht Satan does, he divides the house of God.
lindalds 2 years ago
The Jesus of the Bible wasn't our, or Lucifer's, elder brother in a pre-earth life. The Jesus of the Bible created all of us (Col. 1:13-18). The Jesus of the Bible didn't have to grow up to become a God since He was God from the beginning (Jn. 1:1-3, 14, 18). LDS have a false Jesus & are thus false Christians following their real lord to hell.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
IOW, you don't interpret the Bible the same way we do, so we are wrong and you are right.
doesn't work that way, tho.
lindalds 2 years ago
And, you aren't taking into account what Nephi was talking about. That they had to follow the LAW of MOSES, because Christ had not yet been born. So, Nephi says, We know that it's by Grace, even after we follow the Law the best we can, trying to BE perfect, knowing that WE can't do it alone, the LAW does not save us, God's GRACE does. That's what he's saying.
lindalds 2 years ago
Of course we have to follow the law now as then, but we never do it so that we can be worthy enough to get God's grace. Nephi doesn't say what your saying, since he also said that God would never give us something to do that we can't do (1 Ne. 3:7). Alma 5:27-8 says that you must strip yourself of pride and be sufficiently humble in order to be cleansed and prepared to meet God. Since we always have sin, then no one will be prepared to meet God. He can't save them in their sins (Alma 11:37).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Keeping the law isn't a requirement for righteousness despite what D&C 1:32 says. The law is a schoolmaster (Gal. 3:24) to reveal to one that you needs God's grace & be justified by faith, not of the law (3:11). That's why Rom. 4:4-6 says that working gets reward, but justification is instead of grace, not of works. God justifies the ungodly, not the godly despite what mormonanswerman and you say.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
D&C 25 says you've got to keep the commandments continually to get the crown of righteousness & be with the Lord. Are you doing that? Will you get that crown & be with the Lord? Have you sinned today? Are your sins forgiven? Do you fear condemnation? D&C 58:42-43 says that we only know if you've repented if you confess & forsake them. Have you forsaken them? Remember that D&C 82:7: if you sin again, then all your former sins return. You're deceiving yourselves if you think you can do this.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
D&C 25:15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.
16 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my voice unto all. Amen.
We are not perfect, but we are trying. That's why there is repentance and forgiveness.
There is a difference between committing sin (active) and sinning (passive). There will always be little slip-ups, but one can forsake murder, fornication, stealing, etc.
lindalds 2 years ago
James 2:10: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." We're all guilty of all and without Christ, we're under condemnation. In Christ, there is no more condemnation. We are free in Him, & He changes us as we continue to trust Him. We are no longer dead, but have been made alive in Him. This is the peace that only the believer has with God (Rom. 5:1). Since we have the Son, we "know" that we have eternal life (1 Jn. 5:10-13). LDS don't.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Don't you see? You're talking at cross purposes here.
We don't follow the Law of Moses! We follow the Law of the GOSPEL! That means that, if we screw up, and we WILL screw up, we can ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive us, if we repent and try not to sin. We WILL sin, but we can try to NOT sin. And the more we try to NOT sin, the easier it is to repent when we do, and to feel God's forgiveness. But, if we keep sinning the same sin over and over, He might not forgive it over time.
lindalds 2 years ago
Your prophet Spencer W. Kimball said, "Trying is not sufficient. Nor is repentance complete when one merely tries to abandon sin" (Miracle of Forgiveness, 164). Was he a false prophet or was he just stupid? D&C is clear that you sin again, & all the former sins come back to you (82:7). You still have to forsake them (58:43), not just "try" to. LDS gospel is impossible.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
D&C 1:32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;
This verse says nothing about the Law of Moses (Gal. 3:24). It says the COMMANDMENTS of the LORD. For instance, the rich young man in the Bible whom Jesus told, to sell all and give to the poor, to be perfect. He couldn't and Jesus said, the rich man will not enter heaven. There is a difference between following the commandments of the Law and the commandments of Christ.
lindalds 2 years ago
The commandments were given through Moses as a prophet of the Lord. The rich man couldn't keep all the commandments of the Lord as no one can, since we're all sinners in need of the only 1 who fulfilled all the commandments of the Lord given through all His prophets.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
However, IF that young man HAD done what Christ asked, he would have been saved. He had to choose, which god did he want.
lindalds 2 years ago
That's the essence. Trust Jesus as God, or trust his wealth. One can't have 2 masters. So once the choice is made for Jesus, then whatever He says goes. The choice is an intellectual movement that naturally results in good works. If the rich guy repented, but died before he was able to sell everything, he would have been in the presence of the Father. BTW, since Jesus is a separate God from the F, & you can't have 2 masters, who's yours?
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28). "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work" (Rom. 11:6). That's why all your own righteousness is filthy rags (Isa. 64:6).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
We don't live according to the Law of Moses.
lindalds 2 years ago
You still fall short of God's glory, and like the rest are a miserable sinner, who doesn't keep the commandments continually. Do you ever speed? The New Testament says that we are to be subject to the government (Rom. 13:1). If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth isn't in us (1 Jn. 1:8). Thus, you aren't going to keep the commandments continually like the D&C advocates, and you won't get the crown of life. The focus is still on your worthiness rather than Christ's.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
If I speed all the time, if I don't try to keep it down, then it doesn't matter how much I say Sorry, or whatever, the government isn't going to forgive me.
If I commit adultery, and I repent, God will forgive me.
However, if I go back and do it again, and again, and again, am I really sorry for what I did? Why should God forgive me for doing over and over again waht He has told me not to do? Prt of repenting is to forsake your sin.
Are you sorry you did it, or just sorry you got caught?
lindalds 2 years ago
You're assuming that D&C 58:43 is true. I know that repentance need not be perfect, & God matures our faith or repentance. God forgives, since the payment of the debt was completely paid for, not because we're so good at overcoming any particular sin.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
The way you talk here, you make it sound like, oh, what the hell? I'm a sinner, so I might as well enjoy it.
Or at least, just try not to feel guilt over it, because God forgives me anyway.
Do you really think that, if you steal something from your boss or co-worker, or even a family member, and you repent, but you keep doing it over and over, that God is going to keep forgiving you over and over?
I don't. I'm gonna try NOT to sin. Doesn't mean I will succeed, but I will be trying.
lindalds 2 years ago
I would never say enjoy your sin. I'd say you'll be miserable in it & you should do whatever it takes to stop it... even plucking your eye out if it causes you to stumble as Jesus said. But I have peace that Jesus is in me & He's at work in me on His time table, not mine. I can trust Him for everything. That's the peace I have that you don't have. Why would I want to give that up? Remember that according to your prophet & scripture, you must forsake & trying is insufficient.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
The way you talk, tho, says that we are not responsible for anything we do. You know, "The devil made me do it!" sort of mentality. Doesn't matter if I screw up, even if I screw up bad, God forgives me. Means we don't have to keep ourselves under any sort of self-control.
lindalds 2 years ago
I don't know what would give you this idea. Just because God forgives all that we've done doesn't entail that we think it's not really our sin & that Satan made us do it. Since He's completely paid our debt & given us life, we have a new heart now. We thus have new desires to please Him. We want to struggle well w/ our sin & trust God to change us. But we simply aren't trusting in our performance so that we can be worthy enough for God's grace. We realize we never can be. Jesus alone is worthy.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
So, you still don't even TRY to be without sin? You can, you know. God is not going to hold it against us if we try to be what He wants us to be. It has ntohing to do with SELF-righteousness. And nothing to with humility because if we are like the Pharisees, then we have our reward here, and won't get it in heaven. We try to not sin so that we can be stronger, and feel the spirit more. Not to brag to others, or to ourselves.
lindalds 2 years ago
I'm not trying to live w/out sin. I'm trusting Christ to mature/perfect me more into His image, knowing that in this life I'll never be sinless in my flesh. My perfection or maturity in this life may only be relative to other sinners. Relative to Christ, I'm a dirt bag. In Christ though I'm counted as perfect & I know He's living in me to make me more like Him even though I'll struggle w/ sin my whole earthly life.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
What happens, then, if you majorly screw up? Jesus wasn't diligent enough with you?
You need $1000 to pay bills, or you get your car taken away or something.
VOILA! You find a wallet with, wow! $1000 in it! There's also a driver's license.
Do you take the money and run? Return the wallet with the money intact?
Who's choosing? You or Jesus?
You REALLY need that money. Jesus knows this, Perhaps HE put that wallet there with that money for you to use!
Or, perhaps He's testing you?
Never know!
lindalds 2 years ago
You majorly screw up every day as far as God's concerned, since the smallest infraction makes you guilty of all the law (James 2:10). You don't do a good job with arguing from what God has said in His word. You simply philosophize. My debt is completely paid. I have peace, but you're still wondering if you'll do all that you can do to make it into the presence of the Father.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
IF you follow the Law of Moses, THEN you break one, you break them all.
I do NOT wonder if I will do all that I can do, because I KNOW I'm doing all that I can do.
God does NOT require from us MORE than what we are able to give. Or do. He does not ask us to run faster, jump higher or do more than what we can do. So, if we do what we know we can, then what more can we do?
Nothing. We are doing all we can do. We can't do more than what we can do.
lindalds 2 years ago
You deceive yourself if you say you're doing all that you can do. If that were the case according to 1 Ne. 3:7, then you wouldn't be sinning every day like you do. You're a miserable sinner who is not forsaking sin as D&C 58:43 says & continually keeping the commands as D&C 25:15 says.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
I KNOW you are reading more into that verse than what is there. That says NOTHING about being perfect, as in no sinning what so ever.
Forsaking sin is not hard, you just choose not to when you are given a choice.
BUT, if you DO choose wrong, then you CAN repent of your sins and you CAN be forgiven! It's that simple! But, you can't, say, steal money from your brother, then repent, return the money, ask forgiveness, get it, then turn around and steal again! and again! and again! At some point
lindalds 2 years ago
at some point, you MUST stop stealing! otherwise, you aren't doing all you can do, because you CAN STOP STEALING!
lindalds 2 years ago
2 Nephi 25:23 does NOT say that we must do all we can do to get God's grace. This guy needs to read the Book of Mormon. I would hate to shout my ignorance in front of God and everyone.
lindalds 2 years ago
Good message. We all should pray and read the scriptures more than we do. Perhaps if they knew the Bible more completely they'd see that the Book of Mormon is ANOTHER WITNESS and complements, not detracts. If one can recognize the voice of the Lord in the Bible, they will hear it in each page of the Book of Mormon, too.
kristy1776 2 years ago
And, one of the big reasons I joined the LDS church is because I find it to be the most Biblical church.
It's interesting how so many anti-Mormons seem to think that, if we would JUST read our Bible we would see how wrong we are. But, the more I read my Bible (AND the Book of Mormon) I know that I am right where God wants me.
lindalds 2 years ago
lindalds: The God of the Bible isn't a man (Hos. 11:9) who had to grow up to become a God for simply this world or set of worlds. The God of the Bible didn't have to get a wife to become God. He didn't have to follow some other God before Him before He could become a god. The God of the Bible doesn't know of any God beside Him, since He's always been God, the Creator of literally everything outside Himself (Ps. 90:2, Isa. 40:12-28, 43:10, 44:6-8, 24, Jn. 17:3).
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
turn from sin, so that we are not COMMITTING sin. (where to sin is passive, to commit sin is active)
God wants us to be like He is. What that entails, really, no one knows for sure. If they say they do, they are either lying, or speculating.
lindalds 2 years ago
God's first commandment was, thou shalt have no OTHER GODS before me. He could not have been speaking of idols, because the second specifically mentions Graven images.
The Israelites were taken captive many times. It's reasonable that they assimilated, and some ended up worshipipng "other gods". God said that He knows of no other god besides Him. If He had said, there are other gods, not yours, tho, but don't worship any others, how confusing is that? So, He just says, There's only me.
lindalds 2 years ago
I don't see the difference between idols and graven images. The fact is that LDS have a different God, viz., one who's not big enough to create literally everything outside Himself. Joseph Smith taught God had a God before Him. LDS scripture teaches that Gods helped each other out in laying out the heavens and the earth (Abraham 4-5), but God said He did it alone & by Himself (Isa. 44:24). LDS worship a man who became exalted for us. That's blasphemous & certainly not the God of the Bible.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Ok, I'm confused now. (non-LDS) Christians say that God is three persons. Three in One in three, whatever.
But then, you say, ONLY GOD created the world and everything, all by HIMself. Shouldn't you be saying soemthing like God created the world all by THEMselves? or soemthing like that? If GOD is three persons, then it should be a THEMselves, not a HIMself, right?
lindalds 2 years ago
lindalds: Either way is fine by me. If you want to emphasize the 1 being who created everything, then you speak in terms of "Him." If you want to emphasize the plurality of Persons within this Being, then you can say "them." What is fundamental is that they aren't 3 separate Gods who are 1 simply in purpose & nature. The Bible is clearly against this. They are also 1 in the being they eternally share.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Unless said "being" is like a committee or something, it's just impossible for me to reconcile the whole thing. It's just not Biblical.
No, they are not three INDEPENDANT Gods, that can or must be worshipped separately. We pray ONLY to Heavenly Father.
lindalds 2 years ago
The problem w/ referring to this being as a committee or some other sort of team is that the term "Him" is used of this being. Teams are "they" or "it," not "Him." If you only pray to the HF, then you do worship them separately, & for LDS they are separate personages and Gods as your former apostle McConkie referred to them in Mormon Doctrine 576-7. LDS view them as independent just as their 1st presidency is made of independent human who function in 1 purpose.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Further for LDS, God hasn't always been God. He became exalted to that position. Further, the HF hasn't always been the F, since He had to impregnate a wife before He could have a son. Further, since LDS believe we were all intelligence prior to being born of heavenly parents, the Son hasn't always been the Son. This is certainly not the Christian God.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
Could you shut your face more?
road1n 2 years ago
Well it sure seems to have captivated you! Check out the various outreach events we've done to various groups on the Pictures page of CourageousChristiansUnited[dot]org. You may also want to Google us and read some articles of what we've done with different groups. Nonetheless, just as doctors specialize in various fields, we specialize and have a passion for the sick suffering from Mormonism the most! Paul was an "apostle to the Gentiles" after all.
MormonInfoDotOrg 2 years ago
I think this is the only way you can have a 'captive audience'.
I seriously would like to see you do the same thing in front of a Muslim Synogogue or Jewish Mosque, because according to you they are just as "lost:" as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Why not treat all people equally and not display such bigoted behaviour only to one group? Just saying...
AequitasVeritas7777 2 years ago
After salvation/justification, God works in us to bring us more into the image of His Son Jesus. This is called sanctification and this process of sanctification is very difficult because it involves our repentance and submission to God's will. But, whether or not we do well or not in sanctification, it does not affect our justification. We are made right in God's eyes by faith in Christ (justification) and made more like Jesus in our lives afterwards (sanctification).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
After we are then made right before God, we are changed in our hearts and then desire to do that which is right before God from within because we are new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We then are able to freely serve God, love Him, and keep His commandments out of appreciation and gratitude to God, not to please God so we can be saved.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
It is truly good news to know that we do not have to keep the Law, don't have to do all we can do, etc. All we need to do is accept that Jesus alone is our only hope and that we must, by faith, accept His work on the cross for the complete forgiveness of our sins. We must receive the righteousness of Jesus and not seek to achieve our own because we simply can't do it.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith," (Romans 9:30). This is the true gospel, that righteousness is received by faith in Christ and that we are not obligated to keep the law in order to be saved...(or exalted, if you are LDS).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Real Christians know what the real gospel is and they know that they cannot keep the Law, can't do all they can do, can't be perfect, and can't triumph over sin. They can only trust in the righteousness of Jesus and receive Him by faith .
John 1:12, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name"
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
I would like to add here, that if anyone says that the gospel is anything other than what it is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, they are blinded by the devil.
"and even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God," (2 Corinthians 4:3-4).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Good, then Mormons have nothing to worry about.
lindalds 2 years ago
But, praise be to God that "...while we were sinners, Christ died for us," (Romans 5:8). You see, Jesus became sin on our behalf so that we, by faith, might become the righteousness of God, (2 Corinthians 5:21). This leads us to precisely what the gospel is.
The real gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, not the Laws and Ordinances of the Mormon Church.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures," (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Justification is the legal declaration by God where God declares the sinner righteous in His sight. Notice that this justification is by faith, not by keeping the Law in any way; that is, not by doing all you can do, not by triumphing over sin, and not by being perfect. The reason for this is because no one (except Jesus) can keep the whole Law, triumph over sin, and be perfect.
unless you can be absolutely perfect in all things pertaining to the Law, you will be cast into outer darkness.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Romans 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Romans 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Galatians 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Does the gospel of the Bible really teach that forgiveness of sins is based, even in part, upon our obedience to the Law's and Ordinances of any church and that we are to be perfect? No it does not.
Romans 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
So you are to be perfect so you can become a god?
I sincerely sympathize with the LDS who are seeking to please God, honor Him, and bring glory to Him by trying to obey His commandments. However, when all is said and done and in the quite of there own heart, when they face the reality of God and his lack of holiness and perfection, can anyone say he has done all he can do, has triumphed over sin, and is perfect? Of course not.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all," (James 2:10).
"For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them, (Gal. 3:10).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
it is not after all we can do. we are saved through Jesus and Jesus alone we are saved.not by works least any man can boast. that is a slap in the face to all Christians and god to think we can work or way one inch closer to salvation the blood of Jesus alone gets us to heaven.you better get your priorities strait and put Jesus first and forget the lie of works.Jesus is the way the truth and the light anyone who tries to come any other way is as a thief in the night.
rockhound362002 2 years ago
Good on ya mate! Keep up the fight.
apologiamixer 2 years ago
We do not need to be perfect. No one will ever be during this mortal probation. It is after all we can possibly do that the Lord fills in the rest for us.
You are skewed in your perceptions of the book of mormon, my dear brothers and sisters.