Dawkins Forum taken down

[akkafietje]

Is this nervous person a fighter against the almighty God ?? Good luck man

[JustOneMoreChild]

Ahh... the RD board is self immolating. Crud. Well at least everyone still has Rationalia and Rational Skepticism, right?

In other news, Timonen has recently been sued by the RDF and Richard Dawkins for, embezzlement, I believe.

[andy765gtr]

its a crazy decision to pull the messageboard, it was a great community and the most interesting feature of the site. although i fully support RD, i probably wont bother going there much until he puts it back on (maybe they have,and i havnt found it). arguments between believers and rationals are always most entertaining and enlightening, and RD forum was the best place for it

[notreason]

dawkins can dish it out but can't take it. wasn't he just in australia this week name calling?

[Stringprodigy]

Josh T has surely gone stark raving mad. Can't believe they are doing this. There are many truly great, epic threads over there. I have no interest in supporting the new forum whatsoever.

[LHMcalindon]

I is lozzer. This gets my approval ratings.

[cursuswalker1]

As a forum admin myself I cannot believe how many people are taking the "he has the right" line.

A forum IS its members. Treat them like shit at your peril. A forum is, indeed, not a democracy, but it should, at the very least, be a consultancy.

[Manceinion]

@lastchancetattoo

I still don't see what the big deal is. You're using someone else's website and treating it like a democracy.

[cursuswalker1]

Yeah yeah. Heard it before.

To use a parallel: If someone owned a bookshop that was very popular, they would, of course, have the right to turn it into a Starbucks.

But those who loved the shop would still be entitled to express their disgust, especially if the owner started burning all the stock AND prosecuting anyone who tried to save it.

[CorndogMaker]

Looks to me like they want something more user friendly and quality oriented and less social network. You can just go somewhere else for your forum. You cant kill a community by shutting down a forum. aside from minor inconvenience, I don't see what the big deal is.

[NescioQuidErgoDeus]

They don't seem to want us to go somewhere else. Mods and members were banned when they announced where most of us were heading.

Also, lastchancetattoo makes a good point.

[CorndogMaker]

It looked to me like the moderators were told privately that they should not advertise for some other forum because they are representatives of the RDF forums. Understandable. then a moderator posted the private massage publicly and forum members misread it and thought it somehow applied to them! No one website can stop people form using one of the dozens of different communication methods anyone with an Internet connection has access to, that would be silly and futile.

[hackenbollox]

All lines of communication were cut off, and users who attempted to get any word out had their entire posting histories deleted (somewhere around 40,000 posts). This isn't some social networking forum, but a valuable resource in the public undertanding of science and critical thinking.

[CorndogMaker]

When you post something to any forum you go into it knowing that your posts could be deleted at any moment and for any reason. I cant feel sympathy for those that did not back up their valued work and thought it would be 100% secure on someone else's website.

[cursuswalker1]

All very well, but we have been given no chance to save, or search for, our work on the forum.

[CorndogMaker]

Online forums are insecure by their very nature. It happens to all of us at least once (more than once in my case) and then we remember, if it is important, write it in a word document, save, and then paste it to the forum.

[hackenbollox]

It isn't about saving one's own posts, it's about the loss of a massive resource for critical thinking and science. I really love the way people keep trying to rationalise this with 'words of wisdom' that are anything but wise.

[CorndogMaker]

I'm not trying to rationalize. I actually don't think the other side has a legitimate grievance to make. That position sounds like entitlement, hyperbole and grandstanding. It is as if they are saying "Because we know better than the creators and keepers of the website, its ours now. They cant change it without collaborating with us." And that sounds bezarro backward to me. If I've misrepresented their position I'm sorry but that seems like what they are saying.

[hackenbollox]

Then I misunderstood. My apologies. In my defence, there has been a great deal of exactly that sort of rationalisation over the last few days, and it wears thin.

[thegalwegian]

I had now idea what was going on until today, noticed yesterday ev. that I couldn´t post reply or new topic and just thought it was a temporary problem. I wonder how many more will think the same.

[AbbeyNormal]

I hope we can get a comment from Prof. Dawkins on this soon, I like to think he had no idea what was going on. Hopefully he was misled about this whole thing.

[NescioQuidErgoDeus]

Go to the forum on the site and read the announcements. He basically agrees with Josh.

[karadan100]

The way this was handled was a fucking disgrace. This Josh Timonen guy is an absolute idiot. The damage this debacle has done to the Richard Dawkins foundation is enormous and probably irreparable.

[deBeuk]

Well, I can forget about archiving the site. During the night/early this morning the script I was running was suddenly redirected to yougotrickrolled dot c o m (something only the webadmin of the rd forum could have done). I can't even retrieve pages anymore now if I change the user-agent.

I was able to download about 800MB in total, I'll see if there's anything worthwhile in there later on today.

[hackenbollox]

No worries. At least three other people are running archives, and one person has volunteered major web space and unlimited bandwidth, so it may be that we can migrate the archive into a new forum.

I myself have nearly 5 Gb archived, and going strong. Thanks anyway. Worth a try, but I think we've got it covered.

[deBeuk]

@hackenbollox That's good to hear, hack.

I think the redir to a rickroll site just adds MORE insult to injury and conclusively proves that Josh (or whoever caused it) is nothing more than a power-hungry douchebag sociopath.

[hackenbollox]

I got a rickroll on my first attempt, but my second attempt went better. Unfortunately, my server crashed at 5.5 Gb, and I can't resume with the particular package I'm using. No matter, others have the means, and there are at least three at it, so everything will be saved. I'm concentrating on saving my boilerplate.

[Eikinkloster]

Any idea of where this archive will be availble? At Rational Skepticism?

I've read Pharyngula's PZ Meyers take on the incident, and even though he is supportive of Dawkins, he clearly has a stance in line with the disgruntled RDF members. Apparently Dawkins reinstating the forum as an archive was result of PZ Meyers intercession.

I think Dawkins is a powerful catalyst, but obviously not leader material. We'll have to wait for a better successor. Dawkins is done.

[hackenbollox]

I have a copy of the archive now, and I will be seeding a torrent when I get a moment.

As for the rest, why do we need a leader?

[TheSpearthrower]

I have also been summarily banned without notice by The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science group on Facebook, apparently for expressing my opinion at the RD forum admin's behaviour. It seems Josh can't bear criticism anywhere - it all must be stamped out!

[GowanBray]

Wow, but what is the underlying reason for this ? Is Josh T just getting too arrogant, or does he have some pecuniary advantage to push ? Why do such a stupid thing ?

[RobRobertsGunworks]

Theropod here, cannot believe what has happened. Science writing contest, HA! :-(

Sad.

Will see you at talkrat and rationalia!

Suppose I'll spend a few days ripping my stuff off to disk.

[hackenbollox]

I have the writing competition archived offline already, and we are planning to run it anyway when the dust settles. We have to get that badge back off the bloody theist! lol

[Kaleid7]

Nice one Hack. I learned so much, lurking around the Science/Evolution threads; it's sad that it's ending, and even sadder that it's ending on such a nasty, ungrateful, condescending note from the admin. The wonderful mods at RDF deserved much, much more.

[cypherknot]

Thanks Hack.

Gallstones

[pietzsche]

Protest on Josh's company web site. Web design is PR whether he knows it or not, would you hire a PR guy who could alienate 85000 people in an hour or two? Me neither.

(ps I'm shh)

[hackenbollox]

Not an entirely bad plan, but possibly a more subversive approach is more apposite here. Rest assured that we are marshalling our forces.

See you at rationalia or league of reason.

[MsDawk]

Josh & co's attitude has been arrogant and ignorant of other's feelings....reminiscent of the Catholic Church!!!

[QuarkyGideon]

Cheers bud! Mirroring.

[menckenplus]

Sad. Thanks for the explanation. If someone could mirror the "Philosophy Resources for All" thread, i'd appreciate. Have sent a lot of people there. Hate to lose that resource amongst all the other wonderful assets there for free thought. Will get the word out to my compatriots.-- menckenplus

[hackenbollox]

WIll do. I think I have it intact.

[DoctorE0]

Hey protest by unsubscribing Dawkins youtube channel; Hey the channel is handled by Josh.. :)

[TheOnlyPraxis]

Cheers Hack (I'm Aesthetic Atheist).

I've got a post running at the AFA forum (Atheist Foundation of Australia) and have also set up a group on Atheist Nexus which is awaiting approval (should be soon), so that will be another central place for people to gather. 'Tis a sad day indeed for what was once a lion of a forum 0(

[hackenbollox]

Indeed. I'm betting that the cretinists are all laughing their bollocks off.

[GowanBray]

Please let us know if there will be a meeting of ex RDFers at Melbourne. Why not try to arrange a meeting with RD while he is there ?

[DerkaSherpaDerka]

Yep, head over to rationalia for more. I'm thinking of wearing a 'Not Happy Josh' T-shirt to the Atheist Convention in MEL.

Witticism

[rozeboosje]

I wonder whether RD actually even knows about this. And how badly the shit will hit the fan when he does find out.

[hackenbollox]

He knows, though I doubt he knows the precise history of what's happened. He was online last night for quite a while, and I know he read the announcement.

[rozeboosje]

Cheers. Did he indicate what he thought about the whole situation?

[hackenbollox]

No, because posting has been disabled, so he couldn't post anything.

[rozeboosje]

ZOMG - if it wasn't so tragic it would have me in stitches

[cypherknot]

Not only that, but the thread with all our comments is gone. How's he to know what we thought. His handlers have circled the wagons to protect him from all the nastiness.

Gallstones

[ficklefiend]

BOO RDF!! I hope I see all you guys around, I will most likely register to the new discussion boards, but I rarely use the front page which they seem to be based on, so I can't see I'll be around much. Makes me sad, I have made some real friends through RDF. :(

[TheSpearthrower]

Mazille - that's truly disgusting treatment! I think Richard has a right to know about all this deception, back-stabbing, and authoritarianism being done in his name.

[fisimazille]

@TheSpearthrower: Thanks, I appreciate it

. CJ, Valden, kiki all share my fate. Getting liquidated for speaking up... That reminds me of something, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

[DerkaSherpaDerka]

Is Josh a double agent for answeringenisis?

Thanks for the post Hack

So much for the 'Clear thinking Oasis' :rolls eyes:

Cheers

The Witti one ;)

[Squawkerd]

Load of shite, someone needs a head-wall moment.

This smacks far too much of censorship from an organisation that I always considered to be an oasis of free thought and expression.

err, Squawk, if ya can't tell

[neoprose]

Thanks for the video Hack. This is Skylarking, from the RDF... waiting on my rationalia registration to be approved.

I'm seriously going to miss the old forum... even the fundies.

[lulipaints]

hi this is fredbear. what appalling management decisions by josh/andrew/richard. can't say i've ever experience totalitarianism before.

good on you hackenslash for taking this initiative. cheers to all former members.

[Tenebra98]

Thank you hack for this. Darkchilde from RDF

[DoctorE0]

I'm so fucking angry.. !

[niallosullivan]

I'm former RDF admin Ilovelucy. Josh is just shutting down all dissenting opinions at the moment. If anything, he's trying to stop RD himself from finding out how pissed off the membership are, hence why whole accounts are being deleted and there is just one post acknowledging the closure while at the same time expressing the "excitement" about the new site ( where new topics will have to be approved). Excitement that no-one else has actually expressed. Don't forget to tweet #timonenfail

[rozeboosje]

@niallosullivan I haven't been very active on the forum, so please forgive me my ignorance for asking who Josh is.

[hackenbollox]

Josh is the site admin, composer, producer and cameraman for all Dawkis' minidocs, and creator of the crocoduck tie.

[rozeboosje]

Thanks for the explanation

[nleonard49]

Hi, Hack! I was thinking this might actually prove to be good publicity for your book, assuming that you've managed to salvage enough from the forum. Publicity along the lines of "this is what Josh flushed down the toilet!" Or am I being harsh. Nora

[cypherknot]

Harsh? Not harsh enough AFAIC. I can do harsh, but I won't.

[nleonard49]

Hi, Gallstones! I was actually being sarcastic. Glad to see you're as spitting angry as I am! ;-)

[fisimazille]

Not to play the martyr here, but I feel like I should inform you people:

Until yesterday I was a moderator at RDF going by the name of Mazille. Since I voiced my discontent in a very clear manner (Along with all the other mods and users, but especially CJ, who received the same treatment I did) my account was completely deleted from the forum, along with all my posts and everything I have ever done in the almost two years I spent there. There is no trace left of me (or CJ, I hear). A sad day...

[nleonard49]

@fisimazille This is dreadful! Just appalling, Mazille. This is going to leave one huge black mark against Richard if he doesn't do something to put things right.

All in the name of 'reason', yeah! Nora

[TheSpearthrower]

Oh and...

"We will leave the current forum up for 30 days, giving regular users an opportunity to locally archive any content they value. When the new website goes live, you are welcome to submit these posts as new discussions. The forum will then be taken down from the web."

So I go to search my posts and what do we have?

"Sorry but you are not permitted to use the search system."

Basically, the information is locked away and will next be discarded by bureaucrats.

[TheSpearthrower]

Had to sign up to Youtube just to say:

"Buggerance!" - just who does Josh think he is? Letter of complaint sent to admins. Letter expressing my shock and disbelief at this desecration of collected knowledge to Richard Dawkins. Comments on FB RDnet foundation asking how they can justify this betrayal of reason and transparency.

It's disgusting behaviour and has irrevocably damaged the foundation's reputation. Sad day for reason! :(

[mumtrader]

Hi Hack

Damnit! Time difference means I'm just catching up on the carnage. What a sad sad day. I just can't see how the new proposal will give anything like what we've known for these past years. It's been a pleasure mate! I'll look for you on the interweebz.

Riddlemethis.

[PrinceofGonzo]

star this up!

[sotatophsam]

Looks like you will have to come back to UP  :)

[hackenbollox]

Hello sweetie. WOn't be happening, although I did log in earlier to let everybody know.

[sotatophsam]

@hackenbollox I missed you :( Good luck T

[Nocterro42]

Is there any info on WHY they thought it was a good idea to close a forum with 5000 members, especially on such short notice?

[hackenbollox]

Err, 85,000!

And no. They just wanted to change it.

BTW, the forum is now open on a read-only basis, so that some material can be archived.

[TheSpearthrower]

99% of the material will never be archived thanks to the non-functioning search feature.

[hackenbollox]

That's OK. I am archiving the whole forum automatically, as is at least one other person. Don't worry, dude, we've got it covered.

[TheSpearthrower]

Thankfully someone with integrity steps up to the plate! Good one Hack.

[deBeuk]

I'll be archiving the forum too (using wget).

[TheSpearthrower]

deBeuk - I'd really appreciate a link to it when you've got it.

[deBeuk]

@TheSpearthrower No problem, depending on how big it is I'll either PM you a direct link to a zip file or create a torrent.

[ShakaVahn]

Thanks for the video! (Valden here)