The Art of Pwnage: Elisha and the Bears, A Final Read Part 3 of 5

[TruthSurge]

good vid.

[TruthSurge]

And does anyone really believe that 42 (or more) boys/youths with rocks and bats would just let Elisha (1 man) walk by unharmed merely yelling "Go up, baldhead!" ???

The story is clearly painted as if it was just a large group of roudy kids who were laughing at his baldness as kids always are doing. The looking back part, the fact that he wasn't planning to go to that city in particular, all of this TURKEL has to ignore and paint his own fantasy narrative. Turkel is an e-begging leech.

[TruthSurge]

James Patrick Holding (real name: Robert Turkel) is a piece of shit. I'm TruthSurge and I approve of this comment.

[alachabre]

Why 42? Well, of course we all know the answer to that one.

[HorrorIllogium]

42 people armed with cudgels and rocks would maul the living hell out of two she bears.

[RyuDarragh]

@HorrorIllogium: Considering the bears of the region are fairly small (smaller than the North American Common Bear), only kids of 6 or 8 years would have been in any real danger.

[odiewan58]

@ brettppalmer..Great video and timely too. I was just "discussing" this very story with my mother (fundie Christian) who told me the "children" were really demons sent by Satan to harass his holy baldness. I got tired of "discussing"....So I sent her this video......Mom is praying for my soul. Anyway, great work....Again.

[ZephZhang]

I'm impressed by the clarity and perspicacity of the thinking in this video. Either you're a very clear thinker, or completely anal obsessive-compulsive to catch some of the detail. Either way, you've caused me to fire off a couple neurons or so. Thanks.

[NotoriousElderly0]

Haha, I loved that you put Linus in there dancing in the background.

[EmpiricalTruth]

OUCH! This series is going to leave a mark on J.P Holding's giant ego.

[thefusilier1000]

Very well done.

[BillKiernan]

moral of the story: She-Bears are a bitch.

[Naked4Jesus]

This is proof positive that The Hair Club for Men is a sacred institution, covertly operating to spare humankind from the cruel hand of Yaweh!!!!

[Halflifefan54]

220 Likes and 0 Dislikes? That's got to be a record!

[stevehayes13]

Arguing with apologists is an exercise in futility. They care nothing for evidence, accuracy, and honesty.

[TBTabby]

How much more will it take before Holding gets off his high horse and admits that he, too, finds his supposed moral guide to be thoroughly immoral?

[yourfullofsheite]

God removed his hair with magic,then told the kids not to make fun.....God would still be an asshole

[krissyeh]

Apologists should apologise for their stupidity.

[cruelbusiness1984]

holding has gone far above and beyond faulty translating, he's exaggerated 2 the point of lying about what the text said in the story. y must the truth b lied about unless the truth is so disgusting people would throw the book out because it's full of disgusting crap?

[hoopersghost]

In a sick way, it's at least consistent that the same deity who commands parents to have rebellious children stoned to death...would have younger children mauled to death for telling his prophet "Hey, baldy--scram!" :-) With out-of-proportion punishments like those, Yahweh's followers have to promise out-of-proportion rewards for obedience just to keep the religion alive. That still doesn't make Yahweh's sense of justice any saner, let alone fairer!

[bcm010]

You must have hit a nerve........... JP has taken down his video. LOL. Apologists are all the same

[JJPHILLYLG]

Is there a verse in the bible that says you are not suppose to ad to the bible?

[100PercentGreen]

@12:40 Hey, that looks like a Charlie Brown character

[Jonstern1983]

I don't think you should blame the bears.  I'm just saying that if you get too near to a she bear's cubs, she goes apeshit,

[mccabe1958]

The recording at 10:14 is Dr. Smith from Lost in Space right? What do I win?

Great video, thanks.

[TheAnimeAtheist]

what a lovely disassembling of your opponents position! I can only see blood in the next video as anyone who tries to justify bear maulings of children can only be pulling straws from their ass.

[bigboy45454545]

I really like this series don't get me wrong. Couldn't you have cut it down a bit and still retained all the meaning. As a qatan na'ar what do I know anyways :-)

[TempleofInanna]

I'm not sure where the apologist's get the idea that they were a gang of youths armed with weapons, with the intent of hurting Elisha. The Bible does not say that at all. All it says is that is a group of boys teasing Elisha about being bald. Talk about reading extra stuff into the story that isn't even there, damn.

[MrElliotpaige]

As much as I love your comprehensive video's Brett, I do have to remind myself at times that I am watching an indepth analysis of why and how a fictional bald man became bald and why a group of fictional children were slaughtered at the hands of a group of fictional bears by the whim of a fictional deity in a fairy tale book written by savages 1500 years ago.

I wonder if in 1000+ years a contempary Brett Palmer will painstakingly break down the details of Dumbledore's death in such a fashion?

[jimthepleb]

@MrElliotpaige dumbledore is dead? did he not rise again on the third day or thursday or something like that?

[mysterioso2006]

*Sees Bretppalmer in sub box*

TIME FOR SOME LOGIC, BITCH

[bjam89]

wait where is the white dressed Emperor Palpatine from?

[jay666KJ]

Perfect title "The Art of Pwnage" perfectly accurate. Also, I 100% agree with the more you learn and listen to christian apologetics the more laughable they become. Even christians laugh at these people.

[JamesThWilliams]

If it was a band of 42 armed thugs there would have been two dead she bears and one dead bald head.

[EdwardHowton]

Hey Holding, you dishonest lying prick! The bible says, in 1 Thessalonians 5:18 "give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus."

Instead of making up bits of the story that simply aren't there and fly in the face of the words written in YOUR holy book, you should be saying "Thank You LORD for sending she-bears to slaughter those 42 children! Truly You are wise beyond the wisdom of man!"

You'd be just as morally repugnant, but at least you'd be honest.

[hollyhoodjoe123]

It amazes me the degree some apologetics would go to defend or make this seem less horrific. This myth of that the apologists push have been debunked before. Yet, they still push their version of Elisha and the 42 bears. Why? The answer is simple. They are being dishonest. And they hope that others are uninformed on the topic.

[derek24hudson]

I was wondering if you could redo this series, this time actually giving some detailed evidence to support your claims.....only joking! Boy, when you go to town, you go to town. I am amazed at the breadth and depth of your research, and your presentation of your findings. THIS is the way to argue with superstitionalists; with clear, logical reasoning and indisputable evidence. a magnificent achievement.

[0gods]

Great series. It is sad that you have to completely paint every wall in the room of an argument to make even a basic point with an arrogant dolt like JP Holding. Setting aside the use of allegory, it strains credulity, as Holding often asserts, that you have to be a career disciple of the bible to properly understand its plain meaning. Isn't the measure of the quality of an allegory is its ability to wrap hidden meaning in a clear, unambiguous main line poem or story?

[KylieTasticUK]

If apologetics can take 2 verses of less than 100 words and still miss key words, and imagine a ton of extra details..... then no wonder they can imagine so much that isn't there in the rest of the Bible!

[themsfightinwoids]

The 2nd Kings child-mauling bears story is just one of several in the bible that PROVE that the Judao-Christian god is IMPOSSIBLE--a perfect god does not commit atrocity for trivial reasons. This alone should be enough for a rational person to know the bible is not "God's Word". The same can be said of most religious canon's (the Qu'ran, etc).

Sadly, religious indoctrination is so pernicious as to often be immune to rational reflection and reason. Religion is a psyco-social virus. 

[bjam89]

@themsfightinwoids should you not remove perfect and putt in all loving, i mean look at the greek gods they did some things that would be seen as "evil" but as they are more human it makes sense and to me they are more perfect gods then the thing in the bible

[ctastrophe]

Is it possible that the age of the "young boys" is important to Christians like JPH because of the whole "age of accountability" doctrine/hypothesis? The Tim LaHaye's of the world think that children who are below a certain age go to heaven when they die 'cause they are too young to know about Jesus, so they say. Given this "age of innocence" it would follow that when the rapture comes the children of the world go with Jesus instead of being left behind. Could this play into the Elisha issue?

[ctastrophe]

@ctastrophe ...continued: If the characters in question are of the "age of innocence" then they shouldn't have been the victims of divine judgment. To make the story consistent with the rest of the Rapture Theology these "children" have to be old enough to know better in order to be on the ass end of god's ass-kicking; hence all the hoop jumping to turn a simple 3-verse story into a complicated exercise in Hebrew and cultural studies. They have to be older and evil to warrant the punishment.

[TheAtheistSwede]

"...has baldly claimed" =D

[Einsteinium007]

Now I see what you have been doing for all this time :P

[8WholeThing]

Forty is used similarly to forty-two but without so much ominous portent. "Forty days and forty nights" and "He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God." (Acts 1:3). Moses' story involves periods of 40 years. There's also "Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves" and "catching forty winks".

[doulos1981]

Great commentary, it is interesting how a passage that says so little can be so specific about the age of the children. One almost thinks that God is playing some sort of cosmic joke.

[George4943]

So.. they say, phonetically, ah-lah ah-lah (in Hebrew) "Go up. Go up" (in Hebrew). Of course they could have said, then, "Go up. Allah!" Justification: Remember that Hebrew poetry often says the same thing twice; the second to have identical meaning to the first.

When it is just a story, then any interpretation is as good  as any other.

[George4943]

Dead Horse

thoroughly

Re-Beaten.

As for the number 42, do you mean that its use in HGG was a Christian reference? Somehow I don't think so.

[KnownNoMore]

12:33 "apologetics: when ANY answer will do"

I cant think of a better way to describe apologetics.

[Zemed87]

So I went on that guy's YouTube channel and watched his latest video, where he apparently creates a caricature of an atheist and then beats it down.

It was an incredibly drastic drop of quality from Brett's videos. I'm in shock. He didn't even bother being polite, instead choosing to get an extremely condescending tone. Maybe he's feeling cornered?

[TheAnMish]

Thanks for this series. Always looking forward to more of your content :)

[TheLizardLass]

So the answer to life, the universe, and everything is death and unpleasantness. Now I'm sad :(

great video as always, I'm looking forward to the next installment :)

[steffenml]

@TheLizardLass No, no, it's still 42. You just have to ask the right question.

[TheLizardLass]

@steffenml -- but 42 means death and unpleasantness -- the bible says so! and everything in the bible is 110% true ;)

[8WholeThing]

@TheLizardLass "So the answer to life, the universe, and everything is death and unpleasantness."

Isn't that the foundation of Buddhism - life is suffereng?

[Nilsy1975]

The more I learn about Christian apologetics, the worse those apologists appear to be!

[brettppalmer]

@Nilsy1975 PERFECT!!! That is exactly the point of a series like this. The text as translated by professional scholars is plain. It doesn't, in and of itself, require explanation. But, because the morality on display is so repugnant, and the disharmony it displays regarding the god of the OT as opposed to the NT, apologists feel called upon by demands of their audience to rewrite the tale. In so doing, they wind up in more trouble. They make it worse, not better.

[cruelbusiness1984]

@brettppalmer beautifully spoken video and well written words. it truly is so repugnant and the disharmony of the god of the old and the god of the new that they have 2 lie and exaggerate. well done :)

[Joerexia]

You know, all of this analysis makes me wonder: why they were specifically "she-bears"?

[KnownNoMore]

@Joerexia

Because YHWH only goes for the most vicious bears. So he chose two that were on their period...

Not exactly in the text, but surely the most er... well... logical explanation given she-bears.... right?

[sporkincarnate]

@Joerexia 42 is clearly an indication that the Old Testament is supportive of the historical truth of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

[ebilly99]

@sporkincarnate And boy is the old Testament some sort of question.... Oh no the universe is becoming more complex again LOL

[tipoomaster]

@sporkincarnate

HGttG is the newest testament, then. Sweet!

[mitenzouki]

@sporkincarnate Clearly Douglas Adams was the second coming.

[Sines314]

@sporkincarnate It shows biblical foreknowledge!

Seriously, that makes as much sense as most apologetics. At least this one directs you to a much better book.

[Gekkibi]

Third part? brb, going to make more coffee!