Nothing for or against C4, but for what it's worth, Voxelform (the Unity package) will be providing virtually unlimited multi-material support in the upcoming version... theoretical maximum being roughly 65K materials per palette.
I am well aware of the drawbacks of deferred renderers. But the drawbacks are larggely a non-issue nowadays because of the immense processing power of GPU. And also, deferred rendering is nothing new - it was first mentioned in the "GPU Gems" book back in 2004 (Chapter 9 - I still have the book) by non other than S.T.A.L.K.E.R. programmer Oles Shishkovtsov. It is now used in many games such as Killzone, GTA IV, Crysis 2, Dead Space, Metro 2033, Red Dead Redemption, and upcoming Battlefield 3.
@RareVDO Deferred rendering what designed to counter-act the slow processing speeds of console GPUs. It severely limits artistic shader creation (since you have limited buffers) so you're pretty much stuck with diffuse, spec, normal, glow. That's cool if you only want to use those, but eventually that won't work. I'm not saying it's crap - it certainly as its benefits. It's just not the future.
I haven't tried unity, but I know C4. I have been working on a game on C4 well before they banned my license for god knows what reason! I have to warn you this game engine is an experimental engine, it doesn't even support light maps, that's why you have to use dynamic lighting all the time, and then it gives you crappy frame rates like this video.
Unity and C4 both are different concepts, there's no way of comparing both like this. C4, has built-in voxel terrain support, and different ways to implement automatically generated shaders (you don't have to write shader code by yourself anymore).
Both C4 and unity support Winsows, Mac, XBox360 and PS3. Unity also has optional support for iPhone, Android and Wii plus a web player that runs in a browser.
I have checked out the games made with C4. They all look like stinking pile of crap.
Seriously, only retards buys C4. There is just NO COMPARISON. If you are any smarter, you would actually get UDK - since UDK is now free too. Its a bit more advanced than Unity.
UDK is not free, unless you are making games for fun. They want 25% royalty on UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications above $50,000.
If you earn $50,000 with your game, UDK costs $12500! That is a huge chunk, when C4 only costs $280.
Also UDK uses scripts. I hate scripts and doing it their way. I want to use C++ and do it my way. C4 gives you all the source code.
@RareVDO They all "look" right? Artwork inside an engine has no bearing on the quality of the engine, but that of the artists making the artwork. So, retards buy C4 huh?
Its not just the artwork. The C4 engine IS CRAP. It doesn't deferred rendering that other more CONTEMPORARY engines do, and its archaic shader system made the whole game no matter how much good artwork throw in at it, it just SPITS OUT SHIT. Everything in the world looks like its lit by a ghastly fluorescent lamp. The world looks like its without any depth, the shadow looks flat. The Engine is really something out of 1999 tech.
@RareVDO Are you aware of the many drawbacks to deferred rendering? I know it's all 'hip' and new now, but it won't last long.
Your opinions are still about the artwork. Here is a scene I did to test the basic rendering capabilities (fog, diffuse, specular, normal, bloom, and the voxel system).
img21.imageshack.us/img21/7332/c4post.jpg
C4's renderer is immensely efficient and powerful, and your opinion of it's shader system is horrible incorrect. It's incredibly robust.
I am well aware of the drawbacks of deferred renderers. But the drawbacks are larggely a non-issue nowadays because of the immense processing power of GPU. And also, deferred rendering is nothing new - it was first mentioned in the "GPU Gems" book back in 2004 (Chapter 9 - I still have the book) by non other than S.T.A.L.K.E.R. programmer Oles Shishkovtsov. It is now used in many games such as Killzone, GTA IV, Crysis 2, Dead Space, Metro 2033, and upcoming Battlefield 3.
If you think there are any performance drawback to the Differed Rendering, you will be very mistaken. As mentioned in my previous post - majority of FPS shooters such as Crysis 2, Brink, Metro 2033, Battlefield 3 are now using Differed Rendering - where time critical online battle even for nano-second makes a difference, but obviously it doesn't - its THAT FAST.
@RareVDO Performance problems come when you want to branch out beyond your typical diffuse, spec, and normal shader - or when you want more than 8 light points to be shadow casters. If that doesn't matter to you, then cool, deferred rendering it is.
Its really non issue anymore and the advantage it offer - unlimited lights and shadow compare to forward rendering's 8 hardware light limit (anything above 8 lights it automatically moved to CPU thus HUGE performance hit) is really huge.
The ONLY "suppose" disadvantage of Differed Rendering is no "hardware anti-aliasing". But even that is non issue anymore as there are methods to do this such adding weighted blur at rendering stage.
That is why I am saying C4 is last generation Engine. Its still using the forward rendering which is really last gen by any standard. And if you are happy to use last gen, its all fine by me :)
@RareVDO If you're saying that is it a last generation engine because the technology it has was developed and proven before deferred rendering then you're correct, but that isn't a fair statement. Once consoles refreshed with more powerful GPUs - deferred rendering will say bye-bye due to the material shading reasons I listed earlier.
Btw, rendering engines don't define the engine as a whole. There is a lot more to C4 than it's graphics system.
@RareVDO That's cool! It doesn't appear to have a working LOD system (which is the hard part about voxels), or advanced material shaders, so if you're comparing - C4's is better.
@RareVDO I'm sorry,but after reading your other replies, i've come to the conclusions that you either don't know what you're talking about or you do but you're a troll. Deferred rendering systems are not the future, in fact they've been around for a very long time (late 80's/early 90's). A lot of games now are simply using it because cross-platform development has become more prevalent, and the rendering pipeline is streamlined, but it is used only for performance, not for it's capabilities.
@RareVDO Along with this, you made the rather noobish mistake of comparing various game graphics between engines and judging the capabilities from there. That is obviously a very flawed method, since artwork has no correlation to technology. In fact, you could probably take a pretty old school engine and produce something very cool looking. Artwork is terrible thing to use for judging engine tech.
@RareVDO And i probably should give the disclaimer that i do use the C4 engine, though i am not really a fanboy, so don't think that clouds my judgement. I looked at unity and was actually pretty tempted to use it, but i found C4's overall offerings to be better suited for my project. Though i'll probably still mess with the free version of unity for fun.
Some of you are either blind or complete idiots. If anyone believes nikkoid, I can guarantee you don't work in the games industry -- just some try hard kid. It is easy to see that the C4 test is using real time shadows and motion blur while Unity is not de facto the test is bull shit and not fair. I bet he tried to test it at first in a fair way but C4 won; however nikkoid either can't program in C++ therefore can't use C4 or just likes Unity better. Either way it still isn't a fair test
@7footballfanatic7 What are you saying, If YOU are the core developer of a game/game company with a small team, and you make a huge successful game. (Notch did this and has made millions, of course hes probably spent a million on more employees, bigger office, and more servers) Anything in the computer/games industry is a high chance of success opposed to many other industries such as the movie industry. So, really the gaming industry doesn't suck, it is frustrating at times, but not suck.
@BaronDewy your comment gave me a feeling you were trying to impress us with how much you know, like when you said 'just some try hard kid', by telling how much we don't know.
Not very objective at all. Different engines handle meshes and rendering differently. You can't just lob a gigantic mesh into a pair of game engines and call it a test of rendering quality or speed. Did you do any research into how these engines are optimized to run? Some game engines simply don't handle large meshes very well and the simple solution is to break your mesh into several pieces.
no it doesn't, when you download it it says you have 30 day but that's cause they give u a 30day trial of the pro version that u have to pay for but after that u get free version forever :D
Nothing for or against C4, but for what it's worth, Voxelform (the Unity package) will be providing virtually unlimited multi-material support in the upcoming version... theoretical maximum being roughly 65K materials per palette.
d4m42 3 months ago
I am well aware of the drawbacks of deferred renderers. But the drawbacks are larggely a non-issue nowadays because of the immense processing power of GPU. And also, deferred rendering is nothing new - it was first mentioned in the "GPU Gems" book back in 2004 (Chapter 9 - I still have the book) by non other than S.T.A.L.K.E.R. programmer Oles Shishkovtsov. It is now used in many games such as Killzone, GTA IV, Crysis 2, Dead Space, Metro 2033, Red Dead Redemption, and upcoming Battlefield 3.
RareVDO 8 months ago
@RareVDO Deferred rendering what designed to counter-act the slow processing speeds of console GPUs. It severely limits artistic shader creation (since you have limited buffers) so you're pretty much stuck with diffuse, spec, normal, glow. That's cool if you only want to use those, but eventually that won't work. I'm not saying it's crap - it certainly as its benefits. It's just not the future.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
I haven't tried unity, but I know C4. I have been working on a game on C4 well before they banned my license for god knows what reason! I have to warn you this game engine is an experimental engine, it doesn't even support light maps, that's why you have to use dynamic lighting all the time, and then it gives you crappy frame rates like this video.
kazvah 1 year ago
Unity and C4 both are different concepts, there's no way of comparing both like this. C4, has built-in voxel terrain support, and different ways to implement automatically generated shaders (you don't have to write shader code by yourself anymore).
Both C4 and unity support Winsows, Mac, XBox360 and PS3. Unity also has optional support for iPhone, Android and Wii plus a web player that runs in a browser.
Unity uses JavaScript and C#, C4 uses C++.
Which one to choose ? Matter of taste.
illadamien 1 year ago
Nikkoid is just making c4 engine look bad. Check out some of the games that other people have made.
northrend99 1 year ago 11
@northrend99
@BaronDewy
I have checked out the games made with C4. They all look like stinking pile of crap.
Seriously, only retards buys C4. There is just NO COMPARISON. If you are any smarter, you would actually get UDK - since UDK is now free too. Its a bit more advanced than Unity.
RareVDO 11 months ago
@RareVDO
UDK is not free, unless you are making games for fun. They want 25% royalty on UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications above $50,000.
If you earn $50,000 with your game, UDK costs $12500! That is a huge chunk, when C4 only costs $280.
Also UDK uses scripts. I hate scripts and doing it their way. I want to use C++ and do it my way. C4 gives you all the source code.
FeelyGood 9 months ago
@RareVDO They all "look" right? Artwork inside an engine has no bearing on the quality of the engine, but that of the artists making the artwork. So, retards buy C4 huh?
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
@JesseRMeyer
Its not just the artwork. The C4 engine IS CRAP. It doesn't deferred rendering that other more CONTEMPORARY engines do, and its archaic shader system made the whole game no matter how much good artwork throw in at it, it just SPITS OUT SHIT. Everything in the world looks like its lit by a ghastly fluorescent lamp. The world looks like its without any depth, the shadow looks flat. The Engine is really something out of 1999 tech.
RareVDO 8 months ago
@RareVDO Are you aware of the many drawbacks to deferred rendering? I know it's all 'hip' and new now, but it won't last long.
Your opinions are still about the artwork. Here is a scene I did to test the basic rendering capabilities (fog, diffuse, specular, normal, bloom, and the voxel system).
img21.imageshack.us/img21/7332/c4post.jpg
C4's renderer is immensely efficient and powerful, and your opinion of it's shader system is horrible incorrect. It's incredibly robust.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
@RareVDO Youtube prevents links to be posted in the comments (it seems), so add h t t p :/ / to the beginning of the link, otherwise it'll error out.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@JesseRMeyer
I am well aware of the drawbacks of deferred renderers. But the drawbacks are larggely a non-issue nowadays because of the immense processing power of GPU. And also, deferred rendering is nothing new - it was first mentioned in the "GPU Gems" book back in 2004 (Chapter 9 - I still have the book) by non other than S.T.A.L.K.E.R. programmer Oles Shishkovtsov. It is now used in many games such as Killzone, GTA IV, Crysis 2, Dead Space, Metro 2033, and upcoming Battlefield 3.
RareVDO 8 months ago
@JesseRMeyer
If you think there are any performance drawback to the Differed Rendering, you will be very mistaken. As mentioned in my previous post - majority of FPS shooters such as Crysis 2, Brink, Metro 2033, Battlefield 3 are now using Differed Rendering - where time critical online battle even for nano-second makes a difference, but obviously it doesn't - its THAT FAST.
RareVDO 8 months ago
@RareVDO Performance problems come when you want to branch out beyond your typical diffuse, spec, and normal shader - or when you want more than 8 light points to be shadow casters. If that doesn't matter to you, then cool, deferred rendering it is.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
@JesseRMeyer
Its really non issue anymore and the advantage it offer - unlimited lights and shadow compare to forward rendering's 8 hardware light limit (anything above 8 lights it automatically moved to CPU thus HUGE performance hit) is really huge.
The ONLY "suppose" disadvantage of Differed Rendering is no "hardware anti-aliasing". But even that is non issue anymore as there are methods to do this such adding weighted blur at rendering stage.
RareVDO 8 months ago
@JesseRMeyer
That is why I am saying C4 is last generation Engine. Its still using the forward rendering which is really last gen by any standard. And if you are happy to use last gen, its all fine by me :)
RareVDO 8 months ago
Comment removed
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@RareVDO If you're saying that is it a last generation engine because the technology it has was developed and proven before deferred rendering then you're correct, but that isn't a fair statement. Once consoles refreshed with more powerful GPUs - deferred rendering will say bye-bye due to the material shading reasons I listed earlier.
Btw, rendering engines don't define the engine as a whole. There is a lot more to C4 than it's graphics system.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
@JesseRMeyer
Since you showcase Voxel, I will up you one with a working VOXEL implementation in UNITY! (add h t t p :/ / and get rid of spaces between letters)
Realtime Voxel Demo (require Unity web plugin) c y c l o p s f r a m e w o r k . o r g / v o x e l f o r m
If you have problem with above demo use this c y c l o p s f r a m e w o r k . o r g / v o x e l f o r m / l i t e
RareVDO 8 months ago
@RareVDO That's cool! It doesn't appear to have a working LOD system (which is the hard part about voxels), or advanced material shaders, so if you're comparing - C4's is better.
JesseRMeyer 8 months ago
@RareVDO I'm sorry,but after reading your other replies, i've come to the conclusions that you either don't know what you're talking about or you do but you're a troll. Deferred rendering systems are not the future, in fact they've been around for a very long time (late 80's/early 90's). A lot of games now are simply using it because cross-platform development has become more prevalent, and the rendering pipeline is streamlined, but it is used only for performance, not for it's capabilities.
jarrod1937 7 months ago
@RareVDO Along with this, you made the rather noobish mistake of comparing various game graphics between engines and judging the capabilities from there. That is obviously a very flawed method, since artwork has no correlation to technology. In fact, you could probably take a pretty old school engine and produce something very cool looking. Artwork is terrible thing to use for judging engine tech.
jarrod1937 7 months ago
@RareVDO And i probably should give the disclaimer that i do use the C4 engine, though i am not really a fanboy, so don't think that clouds my judgement. I looked at unity and was actually pretty tempted to use it, but i found C4's overall offerings to be better suited for my project. Though i'll probably still mess with the free version of unity for fun.
jarrod1937 7 months ago
16mb RAM? LOOL
NetBlaster123 1 year ago
Comment removed
BaronDewy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BaronDewy same goes for you
7footballfanatic7 1 year ago
u kiding me? everryone say that unity3d is the best engine !!! maybe not in physics but in everrything else yes!
dranoel1963 1 year ago
Some of you are either blind or complete idiots. If anyone believes nikkoid, I can guarantee you don't work in the games industry -- just some try hard kid. It is easy to see that the C4 test is using real time shadows and motion blur while Unity is not de facto the test is bull shit and not fair. I bet he tried to test it at first in a fair way but C4 won; however nikkoid either can't program in C++ therefore can't use C4 or just likes Unity better. Either way it still isn't a fair test
BaronDewy 1 year ago 26
@BaronDewy you work in the game industry that sucks
I hear it is a very stressful and crappy paying job
7footballfanatic7 1 year ago
@7footballfanatic7
nope its awesome,i work there too
godfather12m 1 year ago
@7footballfanatic7 What are you saying, If YOU are the core developer of a game/game company with a small team, and you make a huge successful game. (Notch did this and has made millions, of course hes probably spent a million on more employees, bigger office, and more servers) Anything in the computer/games industry is a high chance of success opposed to many other industries such as the movie industry. So, really the gaming industry doesn't suck, it is frustrating at times, but not suck.
rocknroll980 1 year ago
@BaronDewy your comment gave me a feeling you were trying to impress us with how much you know, like when you said 'just some try hard kid', by telling how much we don't know.
I despise your ego.
Maaarteh 8 months ago
Comment removed
BaronDewy 1 year ago
CREATE A DEATH STAR!
Kajifleik 1 year ago
Not very objective at all. Different engines handle meshes and rendering differently. You can't just lob a gigantic mesh into a pair of game engines and call it a test of rendering quality or speed. Did you do any research into how these engines are optimized to run? Some game engines simply don't handle large meshes very well and the simple solution is to break your mesh into several pieces.
thetubeaccount 1 year ago 4
16MB...? you mean 1.6GB..
hobbang2 1 year ago
where is the unity demo?
petradog409 2 years ago
u dont need a demo, there is a pro version of unity u pay for that has some extra features and a free version that can do almost anything :)
Drathgore 1 year ago
UNITY faster render!!!
UNITY greater quality!!!
SaigoMember 2 years ago
UNITY need registration!!! (Sucks)
freak19930 2 years ago
no it doesn't, when you download it it says you have 30 day but that's cause they give u a 30day trial of the pro version that u have to pay for but after that u get free version forever :D
Drathgore 1 year ago
@freak19930 its free, continue the installation steps, you wont need any serial number, it just registers that version with your computer
samm565 1 year ago
unity better
SaigoMember 2 years ago
Finally Unity has faster render?... nice model btw.
digimikeh 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
thats not vista you ....
thats xp!
you can see the background...
gzklgg 2 years ago
@gzklgg of course it's vista your can tell by how the close and maximise looks like
TheMrJDeezy 1 year ago
i wonder how long it took to model that ship
vrshowdown 2 years ago
@vrshowdown from 20 hours to 2 weeks maybe faster
worderr 2 years ago
thats amazing, thnx fro that, I now know what engine to use
115296 2 years ago
he he he c4 sucks unity rules
@115296
fhmm10 11 months ago