Huge tax cuts in the budget plans of Rick Santorum would produce the kinds of trillion-dollar-plus deficits that the GOP candidates are blaming on Obama...
...wouldn't make a dent in deficits that are on track to average $800 billion or so a year over the coming decade under current trends and policies _ and could add to them considerably...
...Only Ron Paul, who calls for wrenching budget cuts that dwarf anything proposed by his three rivals, would reduce the flow of red ink...
@jolow2 anything to distract from the fact you have no specifics hunh? My how this discussion has regressed. Again I'm not a liberal, i dont fit in your little mold Re-pube. You are really slow hunh?
He did not threaten the food stamp programs - He did not threaten to not pay foreign aid What about “broke” do they not understand?- He did not threaten to cut back on anything that involves his base voters - The list could go on and on. He is in full political re-election mode! • Why are we allowing this person to destroy this wonderful country with his selfishness, greed,and his lies?
@jolow2 I already addressed and thoroughly refuted your incessant criticisms and the inane solutions you present. Here is a simple mantra you should live by, If you don't have a better solution then don't criticize. I've already pointed out the fact that you don't even understand the what drives the free market as evidenced by you arguing against supporting the foundation of the free market. At this point your criticism hold no weight, just empty nonstop quibblings.
What insane solutions? The free market? The constitution? The rule of law?
When did I argue against the free market? What are you smoking? Did you mix your meds? You are delusional and have obviously internalized leftist ideology to the point where you don't even know who or what you are.
@jolow2 Click on page 2 and start reading from the bottom. Maybe that's why you kept repeating your same arguments over and over as if they weren't already knocked down. I already showed how your solutions were INANE, meaning brainless, on several occasions. Thus, the comments about your belief in MAGIC. You talk about a free market system that you don't fundamentally understand. All of this is pointed out on page 2.
@jolow2 Interesting that to someone as OBVIOUSLY on the Extreme Right that I would be characterized as being a leftist ideologue. Though I am the only voice of reason here presenting objectivity to a person screams "free market solutions" yet argues against TARP money. You're a walking contradiction sir!! Go study what assets are, go study what investment banks do(summary on page 2). Then maybe you will be better equipped for a debate, you are currently lacking sir.
@lilprince4life Capitalism does not permit the bailout of failed institution after failed institution, which is what TARP was. It was the biggest bailout of failed businesses in the history of this country, and it ended up being nothing more than a massive slush fund.
The majority of U.S. banks were perfectly healthy in 2008-2009 and
should have been left free of TARP. Instead they were exploited by
Washington – and unwittingly by U.S. taxpayers – not the other way
around.
The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said makes you not credible as a sparring partner. When did i ever say "magic"? The fact that you use tarp and "free market solutions" together is even less credible. You have got to prove yourself as a serious educator.
@jolow2 My reference to "magic" refers to the fact that you don't understand the fundamentals of what drives the free market. You only know the term "free market" and use it frivolously without knowing what your talking about. It is clear you don't know what your talking about because you have a problem with the cost of TARP, and you think the free market solves everything. Also, you blame President Obama for TARP saying he is responsible for 2 trillion dollars, clearly it was there in 08.
@lilprince4life "You only know the term "free market" and use it frivolously without knowing what your talking about"
Unlike you, I run a very successful business and believe it or not, actually graduated from college with a marketing degree. I have been in the trenches all my life. I know that the free market always does a better job than the government. You can't even understand THAT! Your logic is fundamentally flawed, believing big government is our savior.
@lilprince4life If Obama really were a pragmatist then he would allow the free market to turn the economy around. He is simply using this crisis in order to implement his own "failed solutions of the past" aka socialism. When has he EVER extolled the virtues of the free market? When has he ever done anything to allow the free market to solve the problem...He sometimes mentions it, but he never lets it work - and he will never let it work.
@jolow2 You obviously don't understand...the free market system. Free market system isn't some unexplainable "magic" that waves a wand to resolve everything. Free market is based on trust and confidence. People invest their money TRUSTING that they will get more back. The more CONFIDENT the more they invest. Confidence in the market was at an all time low! ALL of the rating agencies were giving triple A ratings to Garbage for years under Bush.
@jolow2 You are criticizing investment banks. Who do you think give loans to small businesses? Who sets IPO's for when companies start on the stock market? Who finds global investors for new products hitting the market? You argue for a free market, but argue against the cornerstone institutions of that free market? Another inherent contradiction...
@jolow2 I'm going to need you to do better sir, and bring an argument that supports what you are saying. You just posted something with an entirely different argument, and thought it supported yours. It gave no credibility to your argument of TARP money's cost or saying whether TARP money was needed in the first place. Ha it's mostly admonishing Dodd-Frank, which was never part of our discussion. Infact, I don't like Dodd-Frank so I'll concede arguing fervently in favor of that legislation.
@jolow2 That is how to be objective sir. I hope you learn from this how to better argue your point and you learn that merely copying and pasting a portion of an article does not support your claims unless it's DIRECTLY related to what you're saying. I bet you really felt like you really made a point by doing that as well. No sir, not to someone who ACTUALLY READS what you wrote!! You clearly only read portions of mine.
Wow! yOu are amazing! I interject not only my own words but others as well as you STILL don't get it, only criticizing me for not using my own words. I was not trying to trick you, I thought it rather obvious you don't understand anything I am relating to you so I am giving you other translations of the same message.
@jolow2 First off thanks for copying and pasting a statement from someone else. However, let me demonstrate how to be OBJECTIVE. It is obvious that you still don't fundamentally understand what you are trying to argue. Your initial statement was that both the TARP money and Stimulus came up to 2 trillion dollars. So, your argument was with the cost, and "bailing out" failed institutions. The person you posted has a different question of why force TARP funds on already healthy banks.
LOL, You are very dense. That is not my only argument. Haven't you read ANYTHING I've posted? Please READ my posts carefully and stop twisting and turning the argument. You are all over the place
Are you kidding me? He used inner city folks to muster votes and political power. He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers. Anybody go to jail yet? Where did the tarp $ go?...He is the worst US president in history.
jolow2 3 days ago
This was your original argument. It is different and not supported by the article you just copied and pasted. You copied and pasted something that said "bailout" and thought it matched.
@jolow2 Ha "allow the market to adjust on it's own", how clown? Adjust while losing over 900 billion a month?! With ratings agencies giving trash triple A ratings! So you can't even trust what they say is a good investment. Explain SPECIFICALLY how that was going to happen? Explain how this was supposed to happen with everyone GLOBALLY pulling their money from the market. HA, this should be good!!! "Umm...It would just magically happen, I just know it would." Specifics Please!!!?
"he won't allow the market to adjust on its own which is the pragmatic solution."
I'm sorry sir, but that's just plain Stupid. And the fact that you keep reciting it over and over although I clearly refuted this claim with numerous reasons Literally 2 days ago means either you can't Read or there is a disconnect between your brain and reality.
jolow2 talking, "Uhh duhh...the market has went up and down before!"
My Response, "never while losing 900 billion each month"
jolow2 response, "uhhh...but the solution to all our problems is to let it work itself out."
My Response, "Just because you close your eyes and say it 3 times like Dorothy from the wizard of OZ, doesn't mean everything is normal again and you will wake up back in Kansas."
You must have attended The Oblabas Alice in Wonderland event on Halloween. You know, the one were they don't want it known that they spent a lot of money when folks were losing their jobs? I heard the cool aid was a big hit. You must have had a couple of gallons.
@jolow2 Ha you are all corny jokes, and no specifics. Aww and here I was all hopeful that you had an ACTUAL alternative plan. Your weak arguments have been utterly obliterated, and the best you have to retort with are...corny jokes. Even those don't make sense. Mr. Magic-economy-man with a business degree but can't even spell "Kool-aid" right. Honestly I don't care for liberals or you Repukes either!! They're weak and you guys are ridiculous. As you have demonstrated.
lol you oblabla zombies ALWAYS break down in the end calling me names. You FINALLY broke down into the real empty headed useful idiot that I always knew you were! It took longer than usual. (I actually thought you were going to surprise me at one point, oh well)
Anyway, I am writing a book about how to post to liberals via You Tube and you will be in it. Thanks for your participation.
@jolow2 I'm sure it will be laden with misspellings and No specifics. I even have a name for it already, Harry Potter and the Magical Economy!! He wouldn't even have to waive his wand because it just fixes itself!
Yea Right clown, next time just admit when you're wrong. If someone proves what your saying isn't true, then don't just keep repeating it!! It make you look like a joke, thus the moniker of "Clown". Because you make people laugh at you.(like people in my office today)
@jolow2 Just too stupid to know you lost. Yes, working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day. Good job insulting them stupid. Like judges, FBI, firemen, policemen, teachers, probation officers, postal workers, and many other necessities. You debate like an 8 year old just stop.
Your savior has enacted GREAT socialist programs such as Obamacare which incidentally will allow him to ruin the economy AND have his private army "just as well funded and equipped as your military",40,000 new job-killing business regulations just this year, picks winners and losers in the marketplace, loses billions into "green" companies, disastrous foreign policy, 15% REAL unemployment,
@jolow2 So...you have your own business you "say"...yet your debating skills are so rudimentary. I hope you're not negotiating any contracts, leave that to more capable people.
@jolow2 "just simple enough for a child"- ha yes clown a child does make his arguments just like you!! Just repeat the same thing over, and over, and over. I already said you debate like an 8 year old and you're too stupid to know you agreed with me.
@jolow2 Are you that stupid that "liberal" is the only term you know to describe someone that easily disproves what you believe to be true. Life must suck with that small of a vocabulary hunh? I bet you have difficulties finding the words for alot of things. I bet you describe yourself as American, I would agree if American=troglodyte!
@jolow2 Ha and don't think I haven't noticed your simple self @tagging yourself smart guy! I think you just shine shoes and call yourself a business man. Jo-low's shoe cleaning. You can come shine mine, I think they're a little scuffed from kicking your butt over the past couple days. You have nothing so stop. Everyone that has read this discussion thinks you're an idiot. Save what's left of your dignity, realize you were simply outmatched, and stop. I'll stop destroying you too.
@jolow2 I don't know if I believe you that you even have a degree or business. You're not a very good representation of an intellectual capacity resulting from higher learning (Mr. I spell cool-aid because obama thinks he's cool.) Your discussion skills are lacking, you've shown a lack of creativity even in your attempts at insults. You struggle to understand advanced concepts like the fact that I disagree with you but I'm not for big government nor am I a liberal. You seem rather simplistic.
Well, I was right again, and i do have he utmost respect for the military. You say"working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day" you equate your job, whatever it is like all our soldiers? You really don't work for the military putting your life in danger do you? You imply that you do. Hard too believe
Look, you are giving it a good try but you don't need to boost your ego talking about the imaginary friends laughing a me. You don't have too equate your little job ( if you Do have one) with risking your life like a soldier or fireman. That's PATHETIC. Please stop trying to mock me because you never had any ammunition to start with, and I am tired of how intelligent you are and your "advanced concepts" LOL
@jolow2 I've shown this conversation to 3 people who have all laughed at you and said you're probably one of those mis-informed tea party people. Look shoe shine man, just stop. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about. Just blame Obama for everything making actual conservative people look bad. You are a gimmick sir. Stop making stupid presumptions, and copying and pasting random quotes that have nothing to do with what your talking about Shoe shine man.
@jolow2 Why don't you leave the discussions about government and the appropriate governance to more advanced people that don't copy and paste their opinions but formulate them based on looking at all the evidence. It's obvious whoever GAVE you your opinion didn't give you sufficient enough details to back it up. That's why you can't say how the economy would fix itself, because no one GAVE you that answer. You're too simple minded to debate with.
Well, I tried. I can recommend some good books to educate you and your 3 friends.
One is the "Freedom FairyTale" by Dr. John Rossi. Its basically a children's book with lots of pictures. I'll be reading "The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality" by Ludwig Von Mises. You can post back with any questions as I don't give up on people who know everything.
Well, I was right again, and i do have he utmost respect for the military. You say"working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day" you equate your job, whatever it is like all our soldiers? You really don't work for the military putting your life in danger do you? You imply that you do. Hard too believe
Oh oh, I was afraid this would happen. You weren't satisfied making stuff up about my comments, but now you're actually having pretend conversations with me. This happens sometimes when libtards don't want to know the truth. Don't worry, I am sure there are some half-assed government programs that can help you. You know, the programs that working folks like me pay for when people are grasping at straws to be rational but can't?
He did not threaten to take frivolous benefits such as Internet access away from violent prisoners- He did not offer to fire some of the thousands of unnecessary federal employees that he hired- He did not offer to cut down on his or his wife's frivolous gallivanting around - He did not threaten to not pay the senators and representatives or any of their staff - He did not threaten to take benefits away from welfare recipients.
Did you notice who Obama threatened when he wasn't getting his way on raising the debt ceiling? He threatened to not pay: Social Security Retirees, Military Retirees, Social Security disability and Federal Retirees. This is OUR monies that the government deducted from every single one of our paychecks to hold for safekeeping until we retired!!!! - Now..let this sink in really good - He did not threaten to stop payments to illegal aliens
i am glad Oblabla is our president. Now the seas will recede, he is the one we've been waiting for all our lives, and liberty and justice will triumph, He has singlehandedly saved us from a great depression, the whole world marvels at his intelligence and leadership skills, and the sunrise will still be seen in the east tomorrow and forever. LOL Are you happy now? Go to bed and have wet dreams of Oblabla as usual..
@jolow2 Our debate was never that President Obama was a marvel from heaven and flawless. This debate started by you saying "he is the worst president in history". I simply pointed out fallacies in your criticisms. I further pointed out that your retort of the alternative to Obama being "just let the free market work itself out" is both unrealistic and shows a naive understanding of the mechanisms driving the free market. Simple objectivity was all I ever asked you to apply.
I am the only one being ojective here. You simply want to make lame excuses for a total failure, perhaps because he's black and you desperately want him to do well. I just don't know. I have make ample good rebuttals, but if you choose to cling to your failed liberal and socialist philosophy so you 'd NEVER ever admit that he actually is "the worst president in history". You have about as much insight and education into our constitution as Oblabla - NONE.
He said, “BLIGHT people” not black. Look up the definition if you don't know what it means, the word fits what he is talking about. As in blighted neighborhoods…low income run down areas.
So even if Rick said what they claimed, what's the big deal? Does Jesse Jackson want more tax dollars from "racist" White people to be given to non-Whites? Why take the money of these evil, racist people?
Well, that statement influences unknowingly people! That US blacks receive most of the governments handouts, when in fact US whites receive a great deal more government aide..in the state of Iowa, over 80% of welfare recipients are white compared to 10% black. So that clearly was not the place to say it! But he is trying to get votes by stereotyping black people as "taking all our tax money!"
Rick Santorum was polling around 13%, until a couple of weeks prior to the Iowa Caucus. Then you see this weird spike straight up to around 18%+. Who cares if this guy is racist, he is part of the pro-war/anti-terrorism paradigm and the establishment loves him. The GOP "gave" him second place, just listen to the Karl Rove interview about missing votes and the agreement made between Romney and Santorum's people. Everything they say sounds like the adults in Charlie Brown, wah wah wah wah wah.
I am a HUGE ROn Paul Supporter. I would never encourage anyone to vote against their instinct. However, in my opinion, this kind of "journalism" is more likely to perpetuate and keep ANY "welfare" alive and well. These people just look for fights to pick, then sit back and watch. I think we should DISAVOW these sensationalist "news outlets" immediately. BTW, Rick Santorum is NOT racist!
I hate his politics, but Rick Santorum isn't racist. If he said "black" so what. That's his an opinion, and I happen to agree with it as black man raised in the South. Ron Paul or John King Rapes You!!!!!!!!
@MrGiovanniFlores I think there's already too much else that people should keep their eyes on when it comes to this guy, being in top 3 most corrupt senator if I recall..
If the word 'black' is put in that location of that sentence, it is not out of context... it was a racist remark. I think those were his thoughts, but partway through he realized it was inappropriate which is why the end of the word is slightly slurred. Either way, they are his thoughts.
... finishing my prior post. Then Santorum should stare down the liars at CNN and proudly voice the very real truth that giving money to blacks (whites too) hurts them as a community more than it helps. BTW, notice the little lie there when saying whites are the overwhelming number in poverty and that blacks get 23% of food stamps. 23% is a HUGE number considering they only make up about 12 percent of the population. It means they are taking money from neighbors at a rate 2x everyone else.
Hateful liars at CNN, ABC, NBC, NPR and CBS, anything they can find to keep Marxist Democrats in power while trying to destroy freedom and common sense. My only issue is if Santorum lacks the courage to admit that blacks in America are a wreck, that thanks to the atheist scum in the media and public schools, along with instilling hatred in them for whites by misleading people about history. Folks, black people have OWNED SLAVES too. And blacks were the ones SELLING slaves in Africa.
@randalusa Africans are a diverse group just like Europeans. If an Englishmen enslaved a Scotsmen you wouldn't say white people enslaved white people. Many black Americans are doing quite well and some are not. Some white Americans are doing well but some are not. Santorum is in a state that is 90% or more white. He should talk about his plans to help white welfare communities. Why are Republicans afraid to criticize poor whites the way they criticize poor blacks?
Republicans in general do not criticize poor blacks. Most are too afraid to mention what is going on in America, how the atheist liars at ABC, NBC, NPR and CBS have been injecting hatred into blacks and making excuses for (covering up) the racism FROM blacks themselvces, It is a big mess. And they really aren't so diverse if voting for hateful lying Marxist Democrats at near 90% every election. SOME crap is going on in that community. And it ain't good.
@randalusa In an earlier post you said blacks sold blacks into slavery. I was making the point that that isn't true. Africans maybe predominately black but they are as different as Welsh and English people. Maybe Yorubas sold Ibos into slavery. Republicans are not afraid to say the most hateful things about minorities. So, although many minorities are conservative in their views they refuse to vote with a party filled with people that hatred towards them.
UNFKNBELIEVABLE - THE BIAS - IMAGINE WHAT THE CORPORATE MSM WOULD BE DOING IF PAUL SAIUD THIS - MY GOOD LORD - AND SOME PEOPLE (OBVIOSLY NOT AS MUCH AS THE RIGGED VOTES COUNT) BUT SOME PEOPLE VOTE FOR THIS GUY - THEY DESERVE THE FEMA CAMPS THEY DESERVE THE POVERTY
Well, at least Santorum is now in contention for the Deep South, Midwest, and Heartland vote, but it's gonna be hard to top Rick Perry's N-Head Ranch.
So, Ron Paul 2012! Let's not get that mixed up. I'm not a fan of Santorum at all.
But let's be real here, guys. Open your ears with no prejudgement and listen to the audio. He was about to misspeak "I don't want to make lives better..." but while starting to say "lives", he decided that "people's lives" would sound better, so he autocorrected. He may not be the most eloquent speaker, but to be charged a racist for *THAT* is a little much.
Rick Santorum, the only candidate to finally stand up for the socioeconomic freedom of bleeeeaaah people, whoever bleeeeaaah people are supposed to be. Mr. Frothy 2012
I so want this self-righteous, stinking slime to win the Republican nomination. Once he has the nomination, there is no reason to waste time or money having an election. Obama will be in.
@movieklump Right. What party were Blagojevich and Anthony Weiner? How many promises have Obama broken so far? Most politicians are bigots and hypocrites. But keep playing the left-right game by all means.
@tjohn1986 Obama was not able to achieve all of his goals. But this wasn't through lack of effort. You have an effective effort of obstructionism from the Republican party that you can't neglect here as well. They have been effective only through being disingenuous and purposeful misportrayals of events. He was able to acheive a number of his goals though. And despite purposeful misportrayals he did create atleast 2 million jobs. Problem was that we were still losing jobs from the crisis.
@lilprince4life Clinton had both houses stacked against him. Still he achieved more than Obama. Stop making excuses for him. And he didn't create any jobs, jobs aren't created by the govt, but by the private sector. He also spend over $2 trillion in stimulus and bail outs. 2 trillion and 2 million jobs. Do the math.
@tjohn1986 I'm sorry but that's just a lie, and an example of misportrayal that I spoke of earlier. In my office alone there were 4 REAL jobs that were created with stimulus money. They were cut by Repubs in the NC state legislature earlier this year. In your own picture you are wearing National Guard Gear. Sir that is a government job, policement, teachers, firemen, Judges, FBI, probation officers...you're saying those don't count as real jobs? A Disingenuous portrayal.
@tjohn1986 Not only that but if you actually looked at the stimulus, it was in 3 parts. Third of it was money to states to help balance their budgets. Third of it was tax cuts the Republicans said would do the trick. Final third was for construction and infrastructure jobs to start hiring immediately. Those three things are generally pragmatic approaches. Nothing about those three scream Liberal. Those are the simple BASICS that a government SHOULD do a.k.a. common sense stuff.
@tjohn1986 Also your argument for the overall cost of what you call "bailouts" and the stimulus implies that you really didn't understand the complexity of the economic crisis. My brother works on the stock market. Did you know we were losing 900 Billion a month?! A Month!! So you believe that it would be cheap to fix that, restore confidence in the US financial market, and pay for all of the job we were losing in free fall until the stimulus? How much should it have cost then?
@jolow2 you are correct, more people lost their jobs. Doesn't mean Obama didn't deliver on what he said he would do. What it means is that the issue was much more complex than people understood. Who else do you know that created 2 million jobs and it still wasn't enough? Just think about that statement for a minute. You see how much fighting it took to even get 2 million. It should be easy to get 6 million right? I'm sure Repubs would let him get that passed, no matter the COST.
Oblabla delivered on his campaign promise to fundamentally change the USA, except he was not all that specific on how he would do it or what he would change the best country that ever existed into. Well, we all know what he meant now and he has a dismal and despicable track record of deceit and failure. Just imagine what a real president would have accomplished to make us great again. Most of those were GOVERNMENT jobs creating more regulation and strangleholds
@jolow2 I disagree with your assessment. The most tangible jobs that the government created were of course Government jobs, that only makes sense. Obama focuses on the future and long term goals. To bring new jobs you need a NEW market, and one that will carry to future generations and have global appeal. Thus the green energy market, as it becomes more advanced it will have growing appeal. If America innovation focuses on a new green market, then those are sustainable jobs and revenue.
@jolow2 Obama spoke about education to direct the country. Alot of workers from other countries come take our engineering jobs here because we don't have enough qualified workers here. Obama focuses on education and has a program called Race to the Top, unlike any of the other presidents. Incentivising lower functioning schools to get better. Republican candidates have been silent on education.
@jolow2 Furthermore, be specific on what you are calling dismal and despicable. What can point to specifically and give examples of ineptitude? I doubt you are giving appropriate credit because you probably have been listening to disingenuous demagoguery of Obama. I listen to Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and everything else. I think he has actually done a fine job and taken very pragmatic approaches to everything. I doubt there is much else that any other president could do.
Dismal/despicable.. turning America into a 3rd world police state and economic disaster.
Ineptitude... no executive experience, no business experience, never held a real job. I'd feel better if at least once in his life he asked "do you want fries with your big mac, sir?
@jolow2 Ok, I see what the issue is now. I'm basing my opinion on facts and policies that I can directly reference. I ask you for specifics in the same fashion and you retort with empty scurrilous mockery. It's apparent you have no REAL argument, because those require actual SUBSTANCE in your argument.
@jolow2 Mocking Obama's early work as a community organizer doesn't help your argument against his character either. Obama chose to work in his community to help lower income families find resources, housing, and even jobs. He chose to do this over working on Wall Street. Again there is no ACTUAL substance to your derogatory descriptions of him as despicable. That is HIGHLY commendable if you actually look at the facts rather than just believing how Repubs portray him.
Are you kidding me? He used inner city folks to muster votes and political power. He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers. Anybody go to jail yet? Where did the tarp $ go? He will now sign legislation to detain American citizens indefinitely. He nationalized the auto industry, student loan industry, and the healthcare industry. He uses class warfare to separate us. Are you living under a rock? He is the worst US president in history.
@jolow2 Let me break down each of those arguments because you obviously haven't heard much of a rebuttal so far to those.
1. No one can go to jail because even though the economic crisis was spurred by Wall Street, the practice of selling mortgage backed securities is not illegal. You obviously don't understand those interactions very well.
2. Tarp money was put in place by George Bush before Obama got in office. Mechanisms and lack of accountability already there.
@jolow2 Even with the lack of accountability the need for the TARP money to stop the free fall of our Financial Market was undeniable to people who actually understood the complexity of what happened to our stock market.
3. You may have a legitimate criticism regarding the recent legislation about indefinitely detaining people. I'll give credit there.
4. Regarding the auto industry, did you have an alternative better plan? Only other choice was collapse of auto industry.
@jolow2 I'm gonna presume I don't have to argue to you about how stupid it would be to let the American auto industry collapse in the mist of a recession.
5. The student loan money you are referring to are already government funds. If the government chooses not to allocate that money to the banks any longer then it may be something you're not use to but it isn't a radical concept. Especially if the banks can't give a better rate than they can directly.
@jolow2 6. In terms of Obamacare, you can actually call it Republican care. The concepts in Obamacare are based on past Republican proposals that were widely accepted as an alternative to the Clinton proposals for Universal Healthcare. It was their idea for a requirement of everyone having health insurance. Obama modeled concepts in his healthcare law after what Romney did as well.
@jolow2 This argument of class warfare is at best pretentious. You can't argue the inherent contradiction that "He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers" and he engages in class warfare objectively. This is simply a misportrayal. Obama simply points out the REALITY that people who make more money should pay higher taxes. That shouldn't be a radical concept when you look at it objectively and in terms of us paying off a deficit. We have always had a progressive tax system.
@jolow2 I disagree with you saying he is the worst president. Obama has taken a pragmatic approach to each of those things I've highlighted. From not letting the American auto industry fail in the middle of a recession to reallocation of government funding of student loans. I think Obama's mistake is that he simply takes this pragmatic approach then expects over time people will look at the facts and realize he made the right decision. He mistakenly presumes objectivity in people.
@lilprince4life I appreciate you taking the time for rebuttal, but you obviously have no idea what is going on here and the limited powers that confine our government from behaving like a communist dictatorship. I didn't even mention illegal immigration, cash for clunkers, czars, his private army he spoke about, decimating our military, unregulated power grabs, union bias, and much more. Its late, have no time to spar with you tonight.
@jolow2 I would like to take a moment to point out that for all of the criticisms you have leveled so far I have demonstrated the pragmaticism repeatedly. Not only that but I have offered a chance for you to give an alternative proposal in most instances. Let me point out that you have yet to give one alternative to the criticisms you levy, or answer any of the questions I've asked you in retort about what you could have done better.
@lilprince4life If Obama really were a pragmatist then he would allow the free market to turn the economy around. He is simply using this crisis in order to implement his own "failed solutions of the past" aka socialism. When has he EVER extolled the virtues of the free market? When has he ever done anything to allow the free market to solve the problem. The answer is NEVER. He sometimes mentions it, but he never lets it work - and he will never let it work.
@jolow2 So I want to get this straight. I ask for BETTER alternatives to what Obama has put into place and we can now see have actually WORKED. And the best you could come up with is empty rhetoric of "allow the free market to solve the problem". In PRACTICAL terms that means twiddle our thumbs and hope for the best. That would be your big solution to our economic, housing, and jobs crisis. We were losing 900 billion a month, and your solution is just "Hey hope for the best!!". WOW
@lilprince4life Pragmatism = rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles. They do whatever is deemed as practical, no morality concerns.. Politicians are examples of Pragmatism,doing whatever it takes to get reelected. Principles are generalized knowledge that allow you to predict the outcome of certain kinds of actions. By rejecting principles, you have no means of determining what might be practical.
@jolow2 I'm sorry, but did you just equate being pragmatic to being immoral? Again you stretch things to come to your conclusions. "Politicians are examples of Pragmatism", wow...you have really stretched the definition of practical if you equate that term with politicians. The fact that most are willing to go to whatever extent to get re-elected is the ANTITHESIS of pragmatism. I presumed that you understood what being practical was, and maybe that was my mistake.
@jolow2 You are making it clear that you refuse to give any objective credit where it is due. Even things that should easily be conceded, you refuse to conceded in this debate. It's like trying to argue the concept of the slope of Y when you are denying that 2x2=4. If the basics can't even be conceded then then how can the discussion ever progress to more complex concepts?
@jolow2 Again I see more reaches for criticism. For example, illegal immigration was there well before Obama and will be there well after. You argue against policies like "Clash for Clunkers" clearly without any alternative that would have the same effects of spurring the auto industry or providing immediate growth in our financial market. Just pedantic empty criticisms against LITERALLY everything he does. He is criticized for taking helpful action, he is criticized when he steps back.
@lilprince4life "You argue against policies like "Clash for Clunkers" clearly without any alternative"
You see your problem? No? The "alternative" is to allow the free market to sort things out as it has always done. You try to make me believe Oblabla HAD to do this and other measures because he's "pragmatic". I have been giving you answers but you are not capable of understanding the premise. Your logic is based on falsehoods.
@jolow2 You obviously don't understand the mechanisms behind the free market system. Free market system isn't some unexplainable "magic" that waves a wand to resolve everything. Free market is based on trust and confidence. People invest their money TRUSTING that they will get more back. The more CONFIDENT the more they invest. Confidence in the market was at an all time low! ALL of the rating agencies were giving triple A ratings to Garbage for years under Bush. Years!!
@jolow2 Trust in our financial market was almost GONE. If you don't know that then you simply don't understand what happened during the crisis. My younger brother works on Wall St. Other countries that invested in our markets were devestated and it spurred a World Wide recession. Retirement hedge fund managers are required to invest in triple A rated items on the stock market. 401K's and retirements disappeared, and entire networks of companies bankrupt.
@jolow2 Not to mention all of the millions of jobs that were lost. When one company goes bankrupt, the companies that manufactured goods for them or that the company bought from goes bankrupt as well. Hundreds of companies, thousands across the world. And your solution for all of this is "Let's all just hope for the best, the magic of the market will save us." Well no, I'm glad that we have a practical president no matter how much you didn't appreciate his efforts.
@jolow2 Rather than moving on to drudging up more empty criticisms I would like to see you go back through and acknowledge some of the responses I have already pointed out. Look back over some of the apparent contradictions in rhetoric used against Obama, such as that he is using class warfare but that "He is owned by wall street and bankers." Take a moment to be objective, and give credit where it is due as I have.
@lilprince4life Obama has tried to present himself as a deep thinker, a cautious, intellectual president who moves carefully - in other words, a political pragmatist. However, his ruthless rush to pass a health care bill - damn the consequences or the methods used - exposed him as an opportunist who will trash the Constitution if necessary to gain a legacy for himself and remake America as we’ve known it. If we let him, Obama - rooted as he is in the beliefs of the old radical
@lilprince4life con't Saul Alinsky - would have America resemble a European-style social democracy, not the nation that rose to greatness based on individual liberty and free market capitalism.
@lilprince4life "apparent contradictions in rhetoric used against Obama, such as that he is using class warfare"
No contradictions at all! You can't see the game he is playing? The bankers are one of his biggest campaign contributors. Doesn't that strike even you as a little odd? The tarp $ went too who? Oh yeah, the bankers. He constantly picks winners (party favorites) and losers which is the job of the free market which he trys to destroy with regulations, unions,czars, etc.
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NEWS:
Huge tax cuts in the budget plans of Rick Santorum would produce the kinds of trillion-dollar-plus deficits that the GOP candidates are blaming on Obama...
...wouldn't make a dent in deficits that are on track to average $800 billion or so a year over the coming decade under current trends and policies _ and could add to them considerably...
...Only Ron Paul, who calls for wrenching budget cuts that dwarf anything proposed by his three rivals, would reduce the flow of red ink...
Zoobiesnot 2 weeks ago in playlist santorum
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AlrightThen15 3 weeks ago
i very much dislike him and i think he will say anything!
kenneyp1 1 month ago
@jolow2 anything to distract from the fact you have no specifics hunh? My how this discussion has regressed. Again I'm not a liberal, i dont fit in your little mold Re-pube. You are really slow hunh?
lilprince4life 2 months ago
He did not threaten the food stamp programs - He did not threaten to not pay foreign aid What about “broke” do they not understand?- He did not threaten to cut back on anything that involves his base voters - The list could go on and on. He is in full political re-election mode! • Why are we allowing this person to destroy this wonderful country with his selfishness, greed,and his lies?
Ah Yes, he is so pragmatic and logical.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 I already addressed and thoroughly refuted your incessant criticisms and the inane solutions you present. Here is a simple mantra you should live by, If you don't have a better solution then don't criticize. I've already pointed out the fact that you don't even understand the what drives the free market as evidenced by you arguing against supporting the foundation of the free market. At this point your criticism hold no weight, just empty nonstop quibblings.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
What insane solutions? The free market? The constitution? The rule of law?
When did I argue against the free market? What are you smoking? Did you mix your meds? You are delusional and have obviously internalized leftist ideology to the point where you don't even know who or what you are.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 Click on page 2 and start reading from the bottom. Maybe that's why you kept repeating your same arguments over and over as if they weren't already knocked down. I already showed how your solutions were INANE, meaning brainless, on several occasions. Thus, the comments about your belief in MAGIC. You talk about a free market system that you don't fundamentally understand. All of this is pointed out on page 2.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Interesting that to someone as OBVIOUSLY on the Extreme Right that I would be characterized as being a leftist ideologue. Though I am the only voice of reason here presenting objectivity to a person screams "free market solutions" yet argues against TARP money. You're a walking contradiction sir!! Go study what assets are, go study what investment banks do(summary on page 2). Then maybe you will be better equipped for a debate, you are currently lacking sir.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life Capitalism does not permit the bailout of failed institution after failed institution, which is what TARP was. It was the biggest bailout of failed businesses in the history of this country, and it ended up being nothing more than a massive slush fund.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 The critics of bank bailouts are right to oppose bailouts per se,
but most of them ignore the irrefutable fact that in 2008-2009 most
U.S. banks were forced to take TARP funds, coerced into paying
above-market rates on preferred dividends, and compelled to run their
operations as Washington prefers (the source of the financial crisis in
the first place). Yes, most banks by now have repaid TARP funds, but the
Dodd-Frank “reform” bill (enacted July 2010) continues
jolow2 2 months ago
or intensifies its evils while further institutionalizing government interference in
banking. Even though U.S. bank profits have rebounded in recent years,
bank stocks today remain 47% below where they traded when TARP was
enacted in October 2008, and 23% below where they traded when the
Dodd-Frank bill was enacted in July 2010. It is politically unsafe to
invest in the banks.
jolow2 2 months ago
The majority of U.S. banks were perfectly healthy in 2008-2009 and
should have been left free of TARP. Instead they were exploited by
Washington – and unwittingly by U.S. taxpayers – not the other way
around.
The fact that you put words in my mouth that I never said makes you not credible as a sparring partner. When did i ever say "magic"? The fact that you use tarp and "free market solutions" together is even less credible. You have got to prove yourself as a serious educator.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 My reference to "magic" refers to the fact that you don't understand the fundamentals of what drives the free market. You only know the term "free market" and use it frivolously without knowing what your talking about. It is clear you don't know what your talking about because you have a problem with the cost of TARP, and you think the free market solves everything. Also, you blame President Obama for TARP saying he is responsible for 2 trillion dollars, clearly it was there in 08.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life "You only know the term "free market" and use it frivolously without knowing what your talking about"
Unlike you, I run a very successful business and believe it or not, actually graduated from college with a marketing degree. I have been in the trenches all my life. I know that the free market always does a better job than the government. You can't even understand THAT! Your logic is fundamentally flawed, believing big government is our savior.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2
@lilprince4life If Obama really were a pragmatist then he would allow the free market to turn the economy around. He is simply using this crisis in order to implement his own "failed solutions of the past" aka socialism. When has he EVER extolled the virtues of the free market? When has he ever done anything to allow the free market to solve the problem...He sometimes mentions it, but he never lets it work - and he will never let it work.
jolow2 2 days ago
lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2
@jolow2 You obviously don't understand...the free market system. Free market system isn't some unexplainable "magic" that waves a wand to resolve everything. Free market is based on trust and confidence. People invest their money TRUSTING that they will get more back. The more CONFIDENT the more they invest. Confidence in the market was at an all time low! ALL of the rating agencies were giving triple A ratings to Garbage for years under Bush.
lilprince4life 2 days ago
lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2
@jolow2 You are criticizing investment banks. Who do you think give loans to small businesses? Who sets IPO's for when companies start on the stock market? Who finds global investors for new products hitting the market? You argue for a free market, but argue against the cornerstone institutions of that free market? Another inherent contradiction...
lilprince4life 2 days ago
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 I'm going to need you to do better sir, and bring an argument that supports what you are saying. You just posted something with an entirely different argument, and thought it supported yours. It gave no credibility to your argument of TARP money's cost or saying whether TARP money was needed in the first place. Ha it's mostly admonishing Dodd-Frank, which was never part of our discussion. Infact, I don't like Dodd-Frank so I'll concede arguing fervently in favor of that legislation.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 That is how to be objective sir. I hope you learn from this how to better argue your point and you learn that merely copying and pasting a portion of an article does not support your claims unless it's DIRECTLY related to what you're saying. I bet you really felt like you really made a point by doing that as well. No sir, not to someone who ACTUALLY READS what you wrote!! You clearly only read portions of mine.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
Wow! yOu are amazing! I interject not only my own words but others as well as you STILL don't get it, only criticizing me for not using my own words. I was not trying to trick you, I thought it rather obvious you don't understand anything I am relating to you so I am giving you other translations of the same message.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 First off thanks for copying and pasting a statement from someone else. However, let me demonstrate how to be OBJECTIVE. It is obvious that you still don't fundamentally understand what you are trying to argue. Your initial statement was that both the TARP money and Stimulus came up to 2 trillion dollars. So, your argument was with the cost, and "bailing out" failed institutions. The person you posted has a different question of why force TARP funds on already healthy banks.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life "So, your argument was with the cost"
LOL, You are very dense. That is not my only argument. Haven't you read ANYTHING I've posted? Please READ my posts carefully and stop twisting and turning the argument. You are all over the place
jolow2 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2
@lilprince4life "no ACTUAL substance"?
Are you kidding me? He used inner city folks to muster votes and political power. He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers. Anybody go to jail yet? Where did the tarp $ go?...He is the worst US president in history.
jolow2 3 days ago
This was your original argument. It is different and not supported by the article you just copied and pasted. You copied and pasted something that said "bailout" and thought it matched.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Just wanted to show you what was ACTUALLY SAID!
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
Thats exactly what I said! He is NOT a pragmatist because he won't allow the market to adjust on its own which is the pragmatic solution. Thanks!
jolow2 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2 Ha "allow the market to adjust on it's own", how clown? Adjust while losing over 900 billion a month?! With ratings agencies giving trash triple A ratings! So you can't even trust what they say is a good investment. Explain SPECIFICALLY how that was going to happen? Explain how this was supposed to happen with everyone GLOBALLY pulling their money from the market. HA, this should be good!!! "Umm...It would just magically happen, I just know it would." Specifics Please!!!?
lilprince4life 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2
"he won't allow the market to adjust on its own which is the pragmatic solution."
I'm sorry sir, but that's just plain Stupid. And the fact that you keep reciting it over and over although I clearly refuted this claim with numerous reasons Literally 2 days ago means either you can't Read or there is a disconnect between your brain and reality.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2
jolow2 talking, "Uhh duhh...the market has went up and down before!"
My Response, "never while losing 900 billion each month"
jolow2 response, "uhhh...but the solution to all our problems is to let it work itself out."
My Response, "Just because you close your eyes and say it 3 times like Dorothy from the wizard of OZ, doesn't mean everything is normal again and you will wake up back in Kansas."
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
You must have attended The Oblabas Alice in Wonderland event on Halloween. You know, the one were they don't want it known that they spent a lot of money when folks were losing their jobs? I heard the cool aid was a big hit. You must have had a couple of gallons.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 Ha you are all corny jokes, and no specifics. Aww and here I was all hopeful that you had an ACTUAL alternative plan. Your weak arguments have been utterly obliterated, and the best you have to retort with are...corny jokes. Even those don't make sense. Mr. Magic-economy-man with a business degree but can't even spell "Kool-aid" right. Honestly I don't care for liberals or you Repukes either!! They're weak and you guys are ridiculous. As you have demonstrated.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
lol you oblabla zombies ALWAYS break down in the end calling me names. You FINALLY broke down into the real empty headed useful idiot that I always knew you were! It took longer than usual. (I actually thought you were going to surprise me at one point, oh well)
Anyway, I am writing a book about how to post to liberals via You Tube and you will be in it. Thanks for your participation.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 I'm sure it will be laden with misspellings and No specifics. I even have a name for it already, Harry Potter and the Magical Economy!! He wouldn't even have to waive his wand because it just fixes itself!
Yea Right clown, next time just admit when you're wrong. If someone proves what your saying isn't true, then don't just keep repeating it!! It make you look like a joke, thus the moniker of "Clown". Because you make people laugh at you.(like people in my office today)
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
Guess what? They were laughing at YOU!
If not, you probably all work for the government sucking up taxpayer dollars.
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 Just too stupid to know you lost. Yes, working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day. Good job insulting them stupid. Like judges, FBI, firemen, policemen, teachers, probation officers, postal workers, and many other necessities. You debate like an 8 year old just stop.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
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jolow2 1 month ago
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@lilprince4life You're right, I lost.
Your savior has enacted GREAT socialist programs such as Obamacare which incidentally will allow him to ruin the economy AND have his private army "just as well funded and equipped as your military",40,000 new job-killing business regulations just this year, picks winners and losers in the marketplace, loses billions into "green" companies, disastrous foreign policy, 15% REAL unemployment,
Sleep well lil' prince, your job is secured
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 So...you have your own business you "say"...yet your debating skills are so rudimentary. I hope you're not negotiating any contracts, leave that to more capable people.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
No, not rudimentary, just simple enough for a child to understand. Any kids around to explain any of this to you?
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 "just simple enough for a child"- ha yes clown a child does make his arguments just like you!! Just repeat the same thing over, and over, and over. I already said you debate like an 8 year old and you're too stupid to know you agreed with me.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
You never ran a successful business in your life did you? Stick with your government job--its safer for you.
jolow2 1 month ago
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lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
The message is very simple. Are you that dumbed down you don't realize how liberal you are?
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 Are you that stupid that "liberal" is the only term you know to describe someone that easily disproves what you believe to be true. Life must suck with that small of a vocabulary hunh? I bet you have difficulties finding the words for alot of things. I bet you describe yourself as American, I would agree if American=troglodyte!
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@jolow2 Ha and don't think I haven't noticed your simple self @tagging yourself smart guy! I think you just shine shoes and call yourself a business man. Jo-low's shoe cleaning. You can come shine mine, I think they're a little scuffed from kicking your butt over the past couple days. You have nothing so stop. Everyone that has read this discussion thinks you're an idiot. Save what's left of your dignity, realize you were simply outmatched, and stop. I'll stop destroying you too.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@jolow2 I don't know if I believe you that you even have a degree or business. You're not a very good representation of an intellectual capacity resulting from higher learning (Mr. I spell cool-aid because obama thinks he's cool.) Your discussion skills are lacking, you've shown a lack of creativity even in your attempts at insults. You struggle to understand advanced concepts like the fact that I disagree with you but I'm not for big government nor am I a liberal. You seem rather simplistic.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
"tagging" myself? What are you talking about?
jolow2 1 month ago
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@jolow2 Good job smart guy, and you've done it several times
@jolow2
Well, I was right again, and i do have he utmost respect for the military. You say"working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day" you equate your job, whatever it is like all our soldiers? You really don't work for the military putting your life in danger do you? You imply that you do. Hard too believe
jolow2 4 hours ago
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
Look, you are giving it a good try but you don't need to boost your ego talking about the imaginary friends laughing a me. You don't have too equate your little job ( if you Do have one) with risking your life like a soldier or fireman. That's PATHETIC. Please stop trying to mock me because you never had any ammunition to start with, and I am tired of how intelligent you are and your "advanced concepts" LOL
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 I've shown this conversation to 3 people who have all laughed at you and said you're probably one of those mis-informed tea party people. Look shoe shine man, just stop. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about. Just blame Obama for everything making actual conservative people look bad. You are a gimmick sir. Stop making stupid presumptions, and copying and pasting random quotes that have nothing to do with what your talking about Shoe shine man.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@jolow2 Why don't you leave the discussions about government and the appropriate governance to more advanced people that don't copy and paste their opinions but formulate them based on looking at all the evidence. It's obvious whoever GAVE you your opinion didn't give you sufficient enough details to back it up. That's why you can't say how the economy would fix itself, because no one GAVE you that answer. You're too simple minded to debate with.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
Well, I tried. I can recommend some good books to educate you and your 3 friends.
One is the "Freedom FairyTale" by Dr. John Rossi. Its basically a children's book with lots of pictures. I'll be reading "The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality" by Ludwig Von Mises. You can post back with any questions as I don't give up on people who know everything.
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 As you prove my point...AGAIN.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@jolow2
Well, I was right again, and i do have he utmost respect for the military. You say"working for the government like all of our soldiers in the military that put their life on the line every day" you equate your job, whatever it is like all our soldiers? You really don't work for the military putting your life in danger do you? You imply that you do. Hard too believe
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 There you go half reading again. Simple Simon
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
lol
I have a book suggestion for you:
Lil' Pee Wee Herman Prince and the Emperor Defeats America. ---big government rules.
jolow2 1 month ago
@jolow2 primitive
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@jolow2 tawdry, outdated, and corny all at the same time.
lilprince4life 1 month ago
@lilprince4life
Oh oh, I was afraid this would happen. You weren't satisfied making stuff up about my comments, but now you're actually having pretend conversations with me. This happens sometimes when libtards don't want to know the truth. Don't worry, I am sure there are some half-assed government programs that can help you. You know, the programs that working folks like me pay for when people are grasping at straws to be rational but can't?
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 P.S.- I was making fun of you clown!! You're just mad that was actually what your response would have been. You predictable Repuke clown!
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
OMG! You have had a total breakdown!! You're lying, anyway. Your "cool" has been blown.
Sorry, I destroyed your little, comfortable Obommie world.
Oblabla Kool-aid is spelled "cool" aid, because he thinks he is so cool. The joke is on you!
jolow2 2 months ago
He did not threaten to take frivolous benefits such as Internet access away from violent prisoners- He did not offer to fire some of the thousands of unnecessary federal employees that he hired- He did not offer to cut down on his or his wife's frivolous gallivanting around - He did not threaten to not pay the senators and representatives or any of their staff - He did not threaten to take benefits away from welfare recipients.
jolow2 2 months ago
Did you notice who Obama threatened when he wasn't getting his way on raising the debt ceiling? He threatened to not pay: Social Security Retirees, Military Retirees, Social Security disability and Federal Retirees. This is OUR monies that the government deducted from every single one of our paychecks to hold for safekeeping until we retired!!!! - Now..let this sink in really good - He did not threaten to stop payments to illegal aliens
jolow2 2 months ago
i am glad Oblabla is our president. Now the seas will recede, he is the one we've been waiting for all our lives, and liberty and justice will triumph, He has singlehandedly saved us from a great depression, the whole world marvels at his intelligence and leadership skills, and the sunrise will still be seen in the east tomorrow and forever. LOL Are you happy now? Go to bed and have wet dreams of Oblabla as usual..
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 Our debate was never that President Obama was a marvel from heaven and flawless. This debate started by you saying "he is the worst president in history". I simply pointed out fallacies in your criticisms. I further pointed out that your retort of the alternative to Obama being "just let the free market work itself out" is both unrealistic and shows a naive understanding of the mechanisms driving the free market. Simple objectivity was all I ever asked you to apply.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
I am the only one being ojective here. You simply want to make lame excuses for a total failure, perhaps because he's black and you desperately want him to do well. I just don't know. I have make ample good rebuttals, but if you choose to cling to your failed liberal and socialist philosophy so you 'd NEVER ever admit that he actually is "the worst president in history". You have about as much insight and education into our constitution as Oblabla - NONE.
jolow2 2 months ago
Cant take it back now Rick....Once you go Black you never go Blah...
505alicious 2 months ago
He said, “BLIGHT people” not black. Look up the definition if you don't know what it means, the word fits what he is talking about. As in blighted neighborhoods…low income run down areas.
spybug51 2 months ago
why the fuck is this racist?
not that i'm supporting him, gary johnson 2012
gamerneek 2 months ago
Wow Rick Santorum's campaign has 11 youtube accounts. Vote Ron Paul 2012!!!!
Trolling4RonPaul2012 2 months ago
Easy question. Yes.
/watch?v=JAtgQZxZSo4
ScreamingHeadAffairs 2 months ago
So even if Rick said what they claimed, what's the big deal? Does Jesse Jackson want more tax dollars from "racist" White people to be given to non-Whites? Why take the money of these evil, racist people?
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago
OH MY GOD RICK SANTORUM IS RACIST, SEND HIM TO THE ELECTRIC CHAIR IMMEDIATELY.
FitnessByMatt 2 months ago 3
Red and yellow, bleh and white, we're all special in Ricks sight.
505alicious 2 months ago in playlist Rick Santorum President 2012
OH goodness! Then what was he going to say then? One lie to cover another. Not good.
SharonLDavis 2 months ago
BLOCK peoples lives???
Really, Block people?
PacificCircle1 2 months ago
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the real reason behind the Santorum push?
google Rick-santorums-islamophobia-problem/
quickv40 2 months ago
EVERYBODY outside the Democratic Party and their Marxist masters at ABC, NBC, NPR and CBS is a racist according to, well, according to them.
randalusa 2 months ago
@TinyMcLarge Don't lump me in with those democrat cronies please. In my opinion it all stinks. Dumb and dumber if you ask me.
movieklump 2 months ago
Rick Santorum is a racist, and is unelectable!
LazyOtaku 2 months ago
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Well, that statement influences unknowingly people! That US blacks receive most of the governments handouts, when in fact US whites receive a great deal more government aide..in the state of Iowa, over 80% of welfare recipients are white compared to 10% black. So that clearly was not the place to say it! But he is trying to get votes by stereotyping black people as "taking all our tax money!"
nitussi 2 months ago
Rick Santorum is never going to get the nomination. But what scares me is that people are actually considering him.
bluepikachuu 2 months ago
Rick Santorum was polling around 13%, until a couple of weeks prior to the Iowa Caucus. Then you see this weird spike straight up to around 18%+. Who cares if this guy is racist, he is part of the pro-war/anti-terrorism paradigm and the establishment loves him. The GOP "gave" him second place, just listen to the Karl Rove interview about missing votes and the agreement made between Romney and Santorum's people. Everything they say sounds like the adults in Charlie Brown, wah wah wah wah wah.
Jeckhart02 2 months ago
Santorum is obv really stupid but I doubt he is racist. PC MSM is out of control.
frkelsa 2 months ago
I am a HUGE ROn Paul Supporter. I would never encourage anyone to vote against their instinct. However, in my opinion, this kind of "journalism" is more likely to perpetuate and keep ANY "welfare" alive and well. These people just look for fights to pick, then sit back and watch. I think we should DISAVOW these sensationalist "news outlets" immediately. BTW, Rick Santorum is NOT racist!
opengee 2 months ago
So stupid. Why is this on the news?
kathryndelong 2 months ago
I hate his politics, but Rick Santorum isn't racist. If he said "black" so what. That's his an opinion, and I happen to agree with it as black man raised in the South. Ron Paul or John King Rapes You!!!!!!!!
exiquio 2 months ago
If you look at some of the people nodding their heads in the audience, they certainly heard "black" and not blahhh.
Nosaltypeanut 2 months ago
@Nosaltypeanut There was no "B" sound. Listen to it again. Don't buy into this bullshit.
MrGiovanniFlores 2 months ago
@MrGiovanniFlores I've listened to it several times.
Nosaltypeanut 2 months ago
@Nosaltypeanut What he actually said was "I don't want to make li - people's lives better..."
You can hear he's nervous and his speach is choppy. This is a rediculous distortion of the truth by so many people, and it's kinda annoying.
He still sucks. Ron Paul 2012!
MrGiovanniFlores 2 months ago
@MrGiovanniFlores I think there's already too much else that people should keep their eyes on when it comes to this guy, being in top 3 most corrupt senator if I recall..
trapedd 2 months ago
No worries, the msm love's Santorum!
Silver3xterior 2 months ago
If the word 'black' is put in that location of that sentence, it is not out of context... it was a racist remark. I think those were his thoughts, but partway through he realized it was inappropriate which is why the end of the word is slightly slurred. Either way, they are his thoughts.
MrJasonMBurns 2 months ago
... finishing my prior post. Then Santorum should stare down the liars at CNN and proudly voice the very real truth that giving money to blacks (whites too) hurts them as a community more than it helps. BTW, notice the little lie there when saying whites are the overwhelming number in poverty and that blacks get 23% of food stamps. 23% is a HUGE number considering they only make up about 12 percent of the population. It means they are taking money from neighbors at a rate 2x everyone else.
randalusa 2 months ago
Hateful liars at CNN, ABC, NBC, NPR and CBS, anything they can find to keep Marxist Democrats in power while trying to destroy freedom and common sense. My only issue is if Santorum lacks the courage to admit that blacks in America are a wreck, that thanks to the atheist scum in the media and public schools, along with instilling hatred in them for whites by misleading people about history. Folks, black people have OWNED SLAVES too. And blacks were the ones SELLING slaves in Africa.
randalusa 2 months ago
@randalusa Africans are a diverse group just like Europeans. If an Englishmen enslaved a Scotsmen you wouldn't say white people enslaved white people. Many black Americans are doing quite well and some are not. Some white Americans are doing well but some are not. Santorum is in a state that is 90% or more white. He should talk about his plans to help white welfare communities. Why are Republicans afraid to criticize poor whites the way they criticize poor blacks?
Nosaltypeanut 2 months ago
@Nosaltypeanut
Republicans in general do not criticize poor blacks. Most are too afraid to mention what is going on in America, how the atheist liars at ABC, NBC, NPR and CBS have been injecting hatred into blacks and making excuses for (covering up) the racism FROM blacks themselvces, It is a big mess. And they really aren't so diverse if voting for hateful lying Marxist Democrats at near 90% every election. SOME crap is going on in that community. And it ain't good.
randalusa 2 months ago
@randalusa In an earlier post you said blacks sold blacks into slavery. I was making the point that that isn't true. Africans maybe predominately black but they are as different as Welsh and English people. Maybe Yorubas sold Ibos into slavery. Republicans are not afraid to say the most hateful things about minorities. So, although many minorities are conservative in their views they refuse to vote with a party filled with people that hatred towards them.
Nosaltypeanut 2 months ago
UNFKNBELIEVABLE - THE BIAS - IMAGINE WHAT THE CORPORATE MSM WOULD BE DOING IF PAUL SAIUD THIS - MY GOOD LORD - AND SOME PEOPLE (OBVIOSLY NOT AS MUCH AS THE RIGGED VOTES COUNT) BUT SOME PEOPLE VOTE FOR THIS GUY - THEY DESERVE THE FEMA CAMPS THEY DESERVE THE POVERTY
PHONEYPOLITICS 2 months ago
Well, at least Santorum is now in contention for the Deep South, Midwest, and Heartland vote, but it's gonna be hard to top Rick Perry's N-Head Ranch.
thefairfaxian 2 months ago
So, Ron Paul 2012! Let's not get that mixed up. I'm not a fan of Santorum at all.
But let's be real here, guys. Open your ears with no prejudgement and listen to the audio. He was about to misspeak "I don't want to make lives better..." but while starting to say "lives", he decided that "people's lives" would sound better, so he autocorrected. He may not be the most eloquent speaker, but to be charged a racist for *THAT* is a little much.
"I don't want to make li - people's lives better"
MrGiovanniFlores 2 months ago
so Santorum got a free ticket out of Iowa. who are the MSM going to push between Romney and they dare not speak his name in New Hampshire?
SuperRicecrackers 2 months ago
baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
icheet 2 months ago
He was talking about "Blaque" people. not Black people.. Most idiotic thing Ive heard in a while. Beats "Ubeki beki stan stan"
Friedstuffsable 2 months ago
Rick Santorum, the only candidate to finally stand up for the socioeconomic freedom of bleeeeaaah people, whoever bleeeeaaah people are supposed to be. Mr. Frothy 2012
AKSBSU 2 months ago
Rick Santorum: Papist-Zionist-Fascist knight of Malta piece of shit, whose execrable race will be erased from the face of the earth
AramDaniel1 2 months ago
what a disgraceful and vile primate
jeremyshambles 2 months ago
He said it ...very clear actually ...Black !!
sattanhellsing 2 months ago
fuck the transitions, and fuck the by-product of anal sex lol haha lol
bairdey84 2 months ago
The Bla people are going to be offended by this.
Jack194343 2 months ago
I so want this self-righteous, stinking slime to win the Republican nomination. Once he has the nomination, there is no reason to waste time or money having an election. Obama will be in.
Jack194343 2 months ago
HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT OF ALL AMERICANS. ASK ANY GAY MAN OR WOMEN.
JESUStheATHEIST1 2 months ago
Santorum was vetted for less than a week and someone has videotaped him stereotyping people. Where is a video of Ron Paul doing the same thing.
babyjustwin1 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MOXNEWSd0tC0M
Thank GOD for CNN. Really good stuff guise.
zedsdeadz 2 months ago
A bigot republican, gee, that's something new.
movieklump 2 months ago
@movieklump Right. What party were Blagojevich and Anthony Weiner? How many promises have Obama broken so far? Most politicians are bigots and hypocrites. But keep playing the left-right game by all means.
tjohn1986 2 months ago in playlist More videos from MOXNEWSd0tC0M 5
@tjohn1986 Obama was not able to achieve all of his goals. But this wasn't through lack of effort. You have an effective effort of obstructionism from the Republican party that you can't neglect here as well. They have been effective only through being disingenuous and purposeful misportrayals of events. He was able to acheive a number of his goals though. And despite purposeful misportrayals he did create atleast 2 million jobs. Problem was that we were still losing jobs from the crisis.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life Clinton had both houses stacked against him. Still he achieved more than Obama. Stop making excuses for him. And he didn't create any jobs, jobs aren't created by the govt, but by the private sector. He also spend over $2 trillion in stimulus and bail outs. 2 trillion and 2 million jobs. Do the math.
tjohn1986 2 months ago
@tjohn1986 I'm sorry but that's just a lie, and an example of misportrayal that I spoke of earlier. In my office alone there were 4 REAL jobs that were created with stimulus money. They were cut by Repubs in the NC state legislature earlier this year. In your own picture you are wearing National Guard Gear. Sir that is a government job, policement, teachers, firemen, Judges, FBI, probation officers...you're saying those don't count as real jobs? A Disingenuous portrayal.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@tjohn1986 Not only that but if you actually looked at the stimulus, it was in 3 parts. Third of it was money to states to help balance their budgets. Third of it was tax cuts the Republicans said would do the trick. Final third was for construction and infrastructure jobs to start hiring immediately. Those three things are generally pragmatic approaches. Nothing about those three scream Liberal. Those are the simple BASICS that a government SHOULD do a.k.a. common sense stuff.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@tjohn1986 Also your argument for the overall cost of what you call "bailouts" and the stimulus implies that you really didn't understand the complexity of the economic crisis. My brother works on the stock market. Did you know we were losing 900 Billion a month?! A Month!! So you believe that it would be cheap to fix that, restore confidence in the US financial market, and pay for all of the job we were losing in free fall until the stimulus? How much should it have cost then?
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
LOL "he did create atleast 2 million jobs" LOL
Tell that to to the 4 million folks that LOSt jobs
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 you are correct, more people lost their jobs. Doesn't mean Obama didn't deliver on what he said he would do. What it means is that the issue was much more complex than people understood. Who else do you know that created 2 million jobs and it still wasn't enough? Just think about that statement for a minute. You see how much fighting it took to even get 2 million. It should be easy to get 6 million right? I'm sure Repubs would let him get that passed, no matter the COST.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
Oblabla delivered on his campaign promise to fundamentally change the USA, except he was not all that specific on how he would do it or what he would change the best country that ever existed into. Well, we all know what he meant now and he has a dismal and despicable track record of deceit and failure. Just imagine what a real president would have accomplished to make us great again. Most of those were GOVERNMENT jobs creating more regulation and strangleholds
jolow2 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2 I disagree with your assessment. The most tangible jobs that the government created were of course Government jobs, that only makes sense. Obama focuses on the future and long term goals. To bring new jobs you need a NEW market, and one that will carry to future generations and have global appeal. Thus the green energy market, as it becomes more advanced it will have growing appeal. If America innovation focuses on a new green market, then those are sustainable jobs and revenue.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Obama spoke about education to direct the country. Alot of workers from other countries come take our engineering jobs here because we don't have enough qualified workers here. Obama focuses on education and has a program called Race to the Top, unlike any of the other presidents. Incentivising lower functioning schools to get better. Republican candidates have been silent on education.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Furthermore, be specific on what you are calling dismal and despicable. What can point to specifically and give examples of ineptitude? I doubt you are giving appropriate credit because you probably have been listening to disingenuous demagoguery of Obama. I listen to Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, and everything else. I think he has actually done a fine job and taken very pragmatic approaches to everything. I doubt there is much else that any other president could do.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life
OK
Dismal/despicable.. turning America into a 3rd world police state and economic disaster.
Ineptitude... no executive experience, no business experience, never held a real job. I'd feel better if at least once in his life he asked "do you want fries with your big mac, sir?
That would be above his pay grade.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 Ok, I see what the issue is now. I'm basing my opinion on facts and policies that I can directly reference. I ask you for specifics in the same fashion and you retort with empty scurrilous mockery. It's apparent you have no REAL argument, because those require actual SUBSTANCE in your argument.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Mocking Obama's early work as a community organizer doesn't help your argument against his character either. Obama chose to work in his community to help lower income families find resources, housing, and even jobs. He chose to do this over working on Wall Street. Again there is no ACTUAL substance to your derogatory descriptions of him as despicable. That is HIGHLY commendable if you actually look at the facts rather than just believing how Repubs portray him.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life "no ACTUAL substance"?
Are you kidding me? He used inner city folks to muster votes and political power. He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers. Anybody go to jail yet? Where did the tarp $ go? He will now sign legislation to detain American citizens indefinitely. He nationalized the auto industry, student loan industry, and the healthcare industry. He uses class warfare to separate us. Are you living under a rock? He is the worst US president in history.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 Let me break down each of those arguments because you obviously haven't heard much of a rebuttal so far to those.
1. No one can go to jail because even though the economic crisis was spurred by Wall Street, the practice of selling mortgage backed securities is not illegal. You obviously don't understand those interactions very well.
2. Tarp money was put in place by George Bush before Obama got in office. Mechanisms and lack of accountability already there.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Even with the lack of accountability the need for the TARP money to stop the free fall of our Financial Market was undeniable to people who actually understood the complexity of what happened to our stock market.
3. You may have a legitimate criticism regarding the recent legislation about indefinitely detaining people. I'll give credit there.
4. Regarding the auto industry, did you have an alternative better plan? Only other choice was collapse of auto industry.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 I'm gonna presume I don't have to argue to you about how stupid it would be to let the American auto industry collapse in the mist of a recession.
5. The student loan money you are referring to are already government funds. If the government chooses not to allocate that money to the banks any longer then it may be something you're not use to but it isn't a radical concept. Especially if the banks can't give a better rate than they can directly.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 6. In terms of Obamacare, you can actually call it Republican care. The concepts in Obamacare are based on past Republican proposals that were widely accepted as an alternative to the Clinton proposals for Universal Healthcare. It was their idea for a requirement of everyone having health insurance. Obama modeled concepts in his healthcare law after what Romney did as well.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
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lilprince4life 2 months ago
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@jolow2 This argument of class warfare is at best pretentious. You can't argue the inherent contradiction that "He is OWNED by wall street and international bankers" and he engages in class warfare objectively. This is simply a misportrayal. Obama simply points out the REALITY that people who make more money should pay higher taxes. That shouldn't be a radical concept when you look at it objectively and in terms of us paying off a deficit. We have always had a progressive tax system.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 I disagree with you saying he is the worst president. Obama has taken a pragmatic approach to each of those things I've highlighted. From not letting the American auto industry fail in the middle of a recession to reallocation of government funding of student loans. I think Obama's mistake is that he simply takes this pragmatic approach then expects over time people will look at the facts and realize he made the right decision. He mistakenly presumes objectivity in people.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life I appreciate you taking the time for rebuttal, but you obviously have no idea what is going on here and the limited powers that confine our government from behaving like a communist dictatorship. I didn't even mention illegal immigration, cash for clunkers, czars, his private army he spoke about, decimating our military, unregulated power grabs, union bias, and much more. Its late, have no time to spar with you tonight.
Looking forward to posting again. I am not done.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 I would like to take a moment to point out that for all of the criticisms you have leveled so far I have demonstrated the pragmaticism repeatedly. Not only that but I have offered a chance for you to give an alternative proposal in most instances. Let me point out that you have yet to give one alternative to the criticisms you levy, or answer any of the questions I've asked you in retort about what you could have done better.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
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jolow2 2 months ago
@lilprince4life If Obama really were a pragmatist then he would allow the free market to turn the economy around. He is simply using this crisis in order to implement his own "failed solutions of the past" aka socialism. When has he EVER extolled the virtues of the free market? When has he ever done anything to allow the free market to solve the problem. The answer is NEVER. He sometimes mentions it, but he never lets it work - and he will never let it work.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 So I want to get this straight. I ask for BETTER alternatives to what Obama has put into place and we can now see have actually WORKED. And the best you could come up with is empty rhetoric of "allow the free market to solve the problem". In PRACTICAL terms that means twiddle our thumbs and hope for the best. That would be your big solution to our economic, housing, and jobs crisis. We were losing 900 billion a month, and your solution is just "Hey hope for the best!!". WOW
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life Pragmatism = rejection of Idealism. If the Idealists principles get in the way, the Pragmatist solves it by rejecting moral principles. They do whatever is deemed as practical, no morality concerns.. Politicians are examples of Pragmatism,doing whatever it takes to get reelected. Principles are generalized knowledge that allow you to predict the outcome of certain kinds of actions. By rejecting principles, you have no means of determining what might be practical.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 I'm sorry, but did you just equate being pragmatic to being immoral? Again you stretch things to come to your conclusions. "Politicians are examples of Pragmatism", wow...you have really stretched the definition of practical if you equate that term with politicians. The fact that most are willing to go to whatever extent to get re-elected is the ANTITHESIS of pragmatism. I presumed that you understood what being practical was, and maybe that was my mistake.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 You are making it clear that you refuse to give any objective credit where it is due. Even things that should easily be conceded, you refuse to conceded in this debate. It's like trying to argue the concept of the slope of Y when you are denying that 2x2=4. If the basics can't even be conceded then then how can the discussion ever progress to more complex concepts?
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Again I see more reaches for criticism. For example, illegal immigration was there well before Obama and will be there well after. You argue against policies like "Clash for Clunkers" clearly without any alternative that would have the same effects of spurring the auto industry or providing immediate growth in our financial market. Just pedantic empty criticisms against LITERALLY everything he does. He is criticized for taking helpful action, he is criticized when he steps back.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life "You argue against policies like "Clash for Clunkers" clearly without any alternative"
You see your problem? No? The "alternative" is to allow the free market to sort things out as it has always done. You try to make me believe Oblabla HAD to do this and other measures because he's "pragmatic". I have been giving you answers but you are not capable of understanding the premise. Your logic is based on falsehoods.
jolow2 2 months ago
@jolow2 You obviously don't understand the mechanisms behind the free market system. Free market system isn't some unexplainable "magic" that waves a wand to resolve everything. Free market is based on trust and confidence. People invest their money TRUSTING that they will get more back. The more CONFIDENT the more they invest. Confidence in the market was at an all time low! ALL of the rating agencies were giving triple A ratings to Garbage for years under Bush. Years!!
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Trust in our financial market was almost GONE. If you don't know that then you simply don't understand what happened during the crisis. My younger brother works on Wall St. Other countries that invested in our markets were devestated and it spurred a World Wide recession. Retirement hedge fund managers are required to invest in triple A rated items on the stock market. 401K's and retirements disappeared, and entire networks of companies bankrupt.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Not to mention all of the millions of jobs that were lost. When one company goes bankrupt, the companies that manufactured goods for them or that the company bought from goes bankrupt as well. Hundreds of companies, thousands across the world. And your solution for all of this is "Let's all just hope for the best, the magic of the market will save us." Well no, I'm glad that we have a practical president no matter how much you didn't appreciate his efforts.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@jolow2 Rather than moving on to drudging up more empty criticisms I would like to see you go back through and acknowledge some of the responses I have already pointed out. Look back over some of the apparent contradictions in rhetoric used against Obama, such as that he is using class warfare but that "He is owned by wall street and bankers." Take a moment to be objective, and give credit where it is due as I have.
lilprince4life 2 months ago
@lilprince4life Obama has tried to present himself as a deep thinker, a cautious, intellectual president who moves carefully - in other words, a political pragmatist. However, his ruthless rush to pass a health care bill - damn the consequences or the methods used - exposed him as an opportunist who will trash the Constitution if necessary to gain a legacy for himself and remake America as we’ve known it. If we let him, Obama - rooted as he is in the beliefs of the old radical
jolow2 2 months ago
@lilprince4life con't Saul Alinsky - would have America resemble a European-style social democracy, not the nation that rose to greatness based on individual liberty and free market capitalism.
jolow2 2 months ago
@lilprince4life "apparent contradictions in rhetoric used against Obama, such as that he is using class warfare"
No contradictions at all! You can't see the game he is playing? The bankers are one of his biggest campaign contributors. Doesn't that strike even you as a little odd? The tarp $ went too who? Oh yeah, the bankers. He constantly picks winners (party favorites) and losers which is the job of the free market which he trys to destroy with regulations, unions,czars, etc.
jolow2 2 months ago