ShockofGod is the typical poorly educated, ignorant Christian. He lives in a protective bubble of his own volition. However, this bubble he has created does not reside in a vacuum. The willful ignorance and lack of cognitive ability he arrogantly displays has repercussions to our world. This bubble of his is revealed most evidently by the fact he censors comments on his channel and blocks others from posting. ShockofGod is a frightened coward who is afraid of reality.
@julzabro Shockofgod is a fake. He's not the first one. There have been many of these types of trolls on youtube. Example- tamtampamela for one. He's an Atheist who is just playing a head-game with other Atheists. I've called him out on this and he's never responded. Which is an indication of his phonyness. Yes, there are Atheists out there who get their kicks in strange ways and he is one of them. I have an uncanny sense for spotting them. Why do you think he never shows his face?
@julzabro Shockofgod is rather benign in his game but their are others who are actually hurting people. Some might say that dumb-asses deserve to be had. I say these faith-healers and snake-oil salesman deserved to be outed because I have worked hard most of my life and I don't like the fact that frauds knowingly take advantage of knuckleheads. Even though they are of a brainwashed variety. It's all a matter of principles and I'm an atheist with a sense of moral character.
He's just a pathetic angry closed minded zealot who completely ignores the message of his religion while obssessing over the fact that there are others who do not believe what he was told to believe.
I can sum up SoG's "proof and evidence" that Christianity is the right religion in six words: He was born into that religion.
Had he been born in a different time and place he would be demanding evidence to disprove Zeus.
I also meant to compliment you on your well-worded criticism of SoG.
Did you ever watch The Kids In The Hall? There was one skit where Bruce was in a restaurant and complaining over and over saying "I wanted my bill five minutes ago", "You're not listening I wanterd my bill FIVE MINUTES AGO!"
He wouldn't pay his bill because he wanted it five minutes earlier. It's funny because he was acting just like ShockofGod and being completely unreasonable and not listening to anyone.
Well said .... People like SOG know they dont have an argument. Thus they block, freeze ratings, creative edit, quote mine ,down right lie. Use vote bots to discredit other opinions.. Its so sad and pathetic.
I really enjoyed this video.I consider myself a man of faith but do not look down on anyone that does not.I dont judge....God does.I have no right to belittle or judge someone because they are unable to see the truth.
This video was 100% right.There is NO proof for either side of this arguement.I trust the bible and do see it as the word of God but I cannot prove anything.No different than proving unicorns or disproving...Its moot point.Thanks for the good vid.Ban Shock.Hes gives us a bad name
@waderp Well, thank u 4 that! U r very open minded and that's very refreshing! It's always good hearing from the very small group of respectful believers....or seemingly small in my experience! :)
I am Christian but everyone has a choice.A choice in what to believe or not to believe.Shockofgod is a complete fundamentalist and even tried to speak to him as a CHRISTIAN!He was unreasonable and now he has banned me from making comments on his videos.
Granted I AM Christian,a creationist, and beleive in Jesus Christ,but I do not feel the need to belittle anyone.This video was well done and VERY true.
Please do not look at Shockofgod as a true Christian.....he is not.
@waderp Oh, man...he's banning other Xtians too??? Wow. Thank u so much for letting us know that u, as a Xtian, do not condone his behavior...I knew u weren't all like that but it's always good to hear from believers who are...more grounded....especially here on YT were there seem to be many fundamentalists who have, possibly, gone off the deep end! I appreciate your input!
@julzabro There is no contradiction, whenever the Bible speaks about astrology, it is done negatively. A person looking up into the heavens to declare God's glory is a far cry from the zodiac. Asking God to be 100% accurate is not unreasonable but should be expected. What happens so often with non believers is that they expect christians to show proof of biblical miracles in order for them to be convinced. Replicating how God parted the Red Sea or duplicating Jesus' walk on water
@julzabro is impossible because these are by their very nature supernatural events and not normaltive. The writings of Josephus and others are considered credible because they are clearly not praising Jesus, just confirming there was a man that some believed to be the king of the jews who was put to death. They accuse his followers of being delusional and attribute any supernatural power he had to magic he learned in Egypt or to demons.
@julzabro In there back handed criticism of Jesus, they also unwittingly confirm a key element of the biblical account of his crucifixion, with their mention of the 3 hours of darkness and how it couldn't be explained by a solar eclipse because there was a full moon. Even if we didn't have their surviving letters, we know that a lot of christians were slaughtered by the romans in the years after Christ's crucifixion, many of whom were eyewitnesses to his life.
@julzabro People are not sent to hell for what they believe, they are sent to hell because of sin. Man didn't create anything in this universe but are ourselves creations. God allows us to believe what we want, but that doesn't make it true. You can believe the sky is blue and I can believe it's purple, both of us can't be right. George Carlin and even Judas Iscariot could be in heaven right now, if they would have just asked for forgiveness.
@julzabro The Bible may contain astrology but it is condemned. Deuteronomy 18:9-13 tells us that the Lord finds such occultic activity detestable. This is precisely why God drove the previous inhabitants out of the land, because they engaged in such practices and he warned the israelites not to adopt their customs.
@theabiotictheory I agree and find this as a major contradiction. Why would God's message be infiltrated with astrology if HE condemns it? And this is done in a metaphorical way...it's intertwined and underlying the text.
@julzabro Your insistence that the Bible be proven 100% accurate to be considered divine is unreasonable. In science, the standard level of proof is only 95%, so requiring that the Bible produce 100% certainty is just an excuse for unbelief. An example of just how irrational your standard is, is highlighted by the fact that there are many prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled at various times in the future.
@theabiotictheory I don't insist that it b proven 100% accurate but that the so-called proofs that it IS divine r factual in that they r highly contested by scholars. Even if I were expecting 100% accuracy, how is that unreasonable? Science admits that it can be wrong and is wrong in many instances but science is NOT a god! Expecting science 2 b 100% accurate is an excuse to BELIEVE as well, right? My standard is not irrational nor can it b deemed so due to unfullfilled prophecies!
@julzabro it was a book written with 3rd hand information, and translated numerous times... its impossible to be the same as it was originally written let alone 100% perfect...
in not athiest... in catholic... and i know priests that think the bible is full of bull...
@julzabro The writings of Josephus and others are excellent extrabiblical sources for the existence of Christ. It used to be that atheist would say they believed Jesus could have existed but rejected any claims of his divinity. Atheists have become so unhinged in recent decades, that many have even boldly asserted that he didn't exist period, which of course is absurd. These early writings are strong testimony to the veracity of the NT.
@theabiotictheory "The writings of Josephus and others are excellent extrabiblical sources for the existence of Christ." Yes, depending on whether or not 1 believes them to be authentic. I don't think Jesus never existed but His divinity or any divinity remains questionable whether Jesus the man lived or not.
@julzabro The beauty in all this, is that God doesn't need you to believe in him, in order for him to exist. George Carlin also didn't think there was a God. He said some of the most profane things about God and made quite a bit of money along the way. Carlin is in hell as we speak suffering through eternal and unrelenting torment. The real tragedy is even on his deathbed despite a career of blasphemy, all he had to do was to ask God for forgiveness and it would have been granted.
@theabiotictheory Carlin didn't make as much as the Vatican thou did he!? And, no, the real tragedy is that u and others who believe in this god r OKAY with anyone being in a place called simply due to what they believe!
@julzabro I accepted his challenge and he banned me.I tried to point out that the question was wrong and he told me i had santa syndrome and banned me :(
The comments he left on the Carlin video where disgusting.
@julzabro No, I'm using the NT to affirm the OT, which is perfectly logical. Jesus quoted from 24 OT books, while the remainder of the NT writers quoted from 34 of them. My sources are biased and yours aren't? Mine are based on sound observable evidence and solid facts. You're suggesting I exchange proven reasoning for wild, irresponsible allegations, tossed out there like hand grenades for the sole purpose of shaking things up? To paraphrase one of your videos "show me your proof".
@theabiotictheory I'm sure my sources could be biased as well and any that I present, u will say that about. There IS NO way to prove that the Bible is 100% accurate...if that were true we would all KNOW that God exists...but so far we don't! I could get u better resources but it's so easier to just refer u 2 a YT video or 2 where THEY present resources cuz I know where this debate goes and it truly doesn't affect my what I think regarding ur god! This is y I keep saying we can do this all day.
@julzabro As much as you want to believe that a group of men cutting deals in a smoke filled room are the arbiters of the Bible, that just isn't the case. Exodus 17:14 and Deuteronomy 31:24-6, make it clear that emphasis was placed early on to preserve the material as a memorial and as a witness. In Luke 24:44, Jesus refers to "the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms", showing the concept of delineation of scripture into distinct sections had been in existence.
@julzabro Josephus, a non christian first century historian, mentions that the jewish OT had 22 books. The reason he used 22 instead of 39 is because the 12 minor prophets were grouped into one book, and the Books of Kings and Chronicles were not separated. Even though you don't accept my so called claims, despite their being rooted in historical facts, doesn't change the equation one bit. Digging in your heels in the light of truth is counterproductive.
@theabiotictheory Who's digging in their heels? I don't accept ur claim that GOD is real and exists! I already told u that I do believe there are historical aspects to the Bible that r true!! But I've also repeated that it DOESN'T matter if u think ur Bible is 100% accurate and Divine....I still do not AGREE with ur god! What part of that do u not get?
@theabiotictheory Who's digging in their heels? I don't accept ur claim that GOD is real and exists! I already told u that I do believe that there R some historical aspects to the Bible that r true!! But I've also repeated that it DOESN'T matter if u think ur Bible is 100% accurate and Divine....I still do not AGREE with ur god! What part of that do u not get? Watch this one...chalk full of archeaologists n scientists and THEN deny it... The Bible Unearthed Part 1- 1
@julzabro What good would it do to prove my claim to you, since you have already stated you won't accept it regardless even if it were to be demonstrated to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. If someone showed me incontrovertible evidence that Christianity is just folklore, I would abandon it and seek the truth. Who is the more reasonable one here, me or you? You will have no excuse whatsoever when you stand before the Lord. You can't plead ignorance.
@theabiotictheory It wouldn't do any good to attempt to prove the Bible becuz YOU CAN'T! The majority of what ur Bible is, is astrologyy....I saw this early on the first time I read the Bible! Ever watch Zeitgeist? This shows the connections between the Bible and astrology. I highly recommend it! So prove the Bible to be divine if u can but by reason and understanding of its message, it is false!
@julzabro You made the specific allegation that the Bible has been altered. That charge is inherently different than asking you to prove God does not exist. If you cannot provide the proof to support your claim, then it's all rhetoric. God is the only perfectly moral being. Compared to God's impeccable morality, even the most moral man who has ever existed (with the exception of Jesus Christ of course) is complete filth. How you can say you have higher morals than God is absurd.
@theabiotictheory The Bible HAS been altered and the Books choosen by men! What proof did YOU have? Your proof is telling me that there are scholars and archeological finds that claim the Bible's authenticity and, as I've said already, we can do this ALL day. I can point that your sources are biased and that the claims u speak of r controversial. And I've already told u that none of that matters. If ur kid doesn't believe in u, u think it would be moral to lock him in a fiery basement 4ever?
@julzabro I just watched that Atheist Experience episode you recommended, and I'm left scratching my head. We know from the discovery of DSS that 38 of the 39 books in OT were already in the canon. Also Jesus Christ affirmed the canon of the OT when he says in Luke 11:51 "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah". Jesus quotes extensively from the OT, and in some cases virtually verbatim. Jesus said several times to ones who were puzzled by his teachings "have you not read"
@theabiotictheory You can't affirm a book using the book ur seeking to affirm!!! That's like trying to proove someone's innocence by simply asking THEM if they committed the crime or not! Yes, when Jesus or whomever wrote of HIm lived...there WAS the Old Testament....synagogues and the LAW existed. they weren't puzzled by Him saying "have u not read" but by His new intrepreatation of what they THOUGHT they knew!
@julzabro meaning have you not read what is written in the OT. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve, Jonah, and the flood as real people and real historical events. NT writers like Paul and Peter and in Hebrews quote numerous times from the OT, so for anyone to claim these books were not considered as God's word is laughable. Atheists are notorious for making charges, but not very good at substantiating them.
@theabiotictheory When did Jesus refer to Adam n Eve...Jonah maybe but I don't think that was HIm...nonetheless, of course, someone who believes in the OT, will mention these figures. So what? Quoting the past from the present is very simple! not sure how that proves the Bible...? I'm not making charge...I'm saying I don't belive YOUR CLAIM! If u can prove it to me, go right ahead!
@julzabro Here is an example of a so called mistake in the copied text:
1. Jesus is the light the world of
2. Jesus the light of the world is
3. Jesu is the light of the world
4. Jesus is the light of the wold
Can you figure out what that verse meant to say? Jesus is the light of the world. My point is, scribes may make a mistake, but they all don't make the same mistake, and even though 4 may have gotten this verse wrong 50 others got it right.
@theabiotictheory Even if the scribes got most right, and I don't doubt that, it doesn't change the fact that there r ongoing debates over when certain Books were written, WHO wrote them and authenticity. In other words, we aren't 100% sure of all of it. Not to mention, we're still finding pieces here n there AND much of what we've HAD was picked by men! All of these things and religion's motives tell me that its been tampered with! What we have is enuff 4 me 2 c that I do not blieve in any god!
@julzabro This is the point where atheists need to produce some evidence. You are absolutely certain that the Bible has been tampered with, yet you can supply no proof for your claims. All evidence indicates that the Bible we have today is the same as the one being used at least from the 6th century B.C. (minus the NT of course). Ironically it's the atheists who want to alter the Bible, by attempting to have absurd forgeries like the Gospels of Thomas or Judas included in the canon.
@theabiotictheory How and y should I "produce evidence" 4 something that U believe 2 b true? Furthermore, I don't DISbelieve ur god or ur Bible SIMPLY cuz there is, imho, not enuff evidence 2 prove them but ALSO cuz I do NOT agree that a god can have less morality than His people. I do not agree that a god can b loving, merciful but allow His children 2 fall 4 His own purposes. I don't agree with much of what ur God DID or ALLOWED! Proving the Bible 2 b 100% accurate only emboldens my disbelief!
@julzabro When a biblical scholar interprets a passage of scripture, he is not merely stating his opinion, but arrives at his conclusion after a careful and exhaustive analysis of the situation. Often times if a scholar or group of scholars can't definitively ascertain a meaning, they may conclude on alternate interpretations. I don't worship christianity, but God. I believe in God because he revealed himself through his word and has kept his promise in preserving it.
@julzabro If God didn't expect learned and righteous men to protect and interpret his word, then why did he need the high priests in the OT. Judges 21:25 sums it up perfectly: "In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes". We would have everyone interpreting scripture according to his or her only morals. The most dangerous god is the one that always agrees with you.
@theabiotictheory Right, and in UR mind this God "agrees with U"! God didn't always use "learned and righteous men 2 protect His word". He used people that couldn't speak well or were mute even! He did away with the interpreters. Heb 4:10 ...I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts...11 None of them shall teach his neighbor..his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
@theabiotictheory You said, "We would have everyone interpreting scripture according to his or her only morals. The most dangerous god is the one that always agrees with you." and THAT is EXACTLY what we have!!!! Everyone's chosen god is the one that agrees with THEM! Everyone's chosen god is the 1 that either allows them to hate, makes them feel special/comforted or gives them a false hope.
@theabiotictheory This is a good video including some reasons similar to my own AND some references regarding the Bible's so-called authenticity. The Bible Is Not the Word of God - The Atheist Experience #483
@julzabro Regardless of what Hitler's religious leanings were, his primary motivation for making war was not to spread his religious beliefs. Christians chose to serve God in a coherent state. A person doesn't become a zombie or walk around in a trance after yielding his life to the will of the Lord. A person can walk away at any time. Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go out and force people to accept his Gospel, but to proclaim it.
@theabiotictheory Hitler's primary reason was to create a Superhuman race. I never said a person can't walk away at any time but being gullible enuff 2 blieve something based mostly in faith leaves u open 2 any other superstitions. Many who believe actually think; God speaks to them, they r special, it's ok 2 hate others/the world, that without God in their lives they'r powerless and/or they can or have been healed of handicaps or health problems. Much of that borders on pyscho!
@theabiotictheory Believers don't walk around in a trance? MANY seperate from families/spouses if they do not share their beliefs, they lose the capacity to speak to any1 with different beliefs with ANY respect and don't feel like they r required to give any respect, some have been so forceful with their kids about following in their beliefs that they become abusive about it. Watch...
Crazy Christian Mom Steals Christmas From Son
Crazy Christian Lady, Marguerite Perrin on Trading Spouses.
@muckquomp I don't see how God granting us free will but knowing the outcome ahead of time is problematic. Often times God will send people into our lives to give us wise counsel who we ignore, or allow situations to develop to strengthen us, yet we don't seem to learn from them. God gives us the freedom to make our own decisions, but encourages us along the way to make the right ones.
@muckquomp People want to blame God for allowing a Hitler, but my question is, why did man permit such a man to exercise power over him? Hitler was granted dictator status by the German parliament and few german citizens intervened to prevent the Holocaust. If you want God to eliminate all evil in the world then he would have to wipe out mankind in the process.
@theabiotictheory People allowed Hitler to have power over them for the SAME reason people believe in varying gods! They don't rely on logic or evidence but simply...have faith! Watch the movie God on Trial...I think u can find it here on Youtube. It's excellent! And remember that those people who "permitted" Hitler this power as you put it WERE Jewish (God's Chosen) and they believed ferverently in YOUR God!!!!
@julzabro A person misunderstanding or misinterpreting a verse or passage in the Bible is not proof that it is too mysterious to decipher, but more of a reflection on the person not doing more research and consulting prior to arriving at his conclusion. This just underscores the importance for biblical scholars to have a working knowledge of ancient hebrew, aramaic, and greek. They can study the etymology of a word along with its nuances and how best to translate it into english.
@theabiotictheory Yes, cause SOME people are chosen and therefore THEY understand while the rest are just screwed I spose!..? So only scholars truly get God's message? Nothing like being partial, eh? So much for those lacking genius or money for school, books and computers!
@julzabro This is why we have different Bible translations like the NIV, the American Standard, the New King James etc. They're all saying the same thing, just not in exactly the same way. Better translations are made possible as scholars gain more insight into these ancient languages as more manuscripts are discovered. This is precisely how critics attack scripture by accusing it of containing contradictions and discrepancies, they level their charges without a proper knowledge
@theabiotictheory I don't need to be a scholar to SEE the conradictions in the Bible! And there are MANY translations that the scholars argue about and can't agree on!!!!
@julzabro of the language they're assaulting as well what the intent and message the Bible was attempting to convey. To call something a contradiction is one thing, but to demonstrate one is quite another. A book published in 1953 by a member of Hitler's inner circle says that Hitler renounced his christianity. Even if he hadn't, it would not have made a bit of difference anyway. WWII was not a religious conflict. Hitler didn't launch the war to "christianize" Europe.
@theabiotictheory Again, Hitler had a religious type of ideaology. He started getting into the Thule society. Hitler thought he was better than God and was trying to prove it. I wouldn't call him an atheist by any means but I don't think he was Xtian either. He was a sick man but still yet another fanatic weilding religion's superstition nonethe less!!!!
@julzabro He did if for world conquest. I'm not a muslim so I see no need for me as a christian to try and rationalize their ideology. It's true, some of the founding fathers were not christians. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine all were not christians. I was simply pointing out that the vast majority of them were, but you'd never know that by listening to revisionist historians.
@theabiotictheory "...you'd never know that by listening to revisionist historians" So let me understand this u believe wholeheartedly that the ancient Bible is 100% accurate even after thousands of years yet you are ALSO 100% sure that recent history was tampered with? I guess you believe what you want to believe! You seem like you worship Xtianity moreso than God becuz u defend it so vehemently. U seem to give more reasons for your Xtianity than for why u believe in god!
@theabiotictheory I didn't ask u to rationalize Muslims but we were talking about RELIGION IN GENERAL and how I THINK it's more harmful than good not JUST Xtianity!
I know believers who would include your apparent smoking addiction as leverage that Atheist are against good health too. Or that you really aren't following natural selection because, YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO SURVIVE BY SMOKING!
This screams at believers subconscious watching this video. They are heavy into "Live what you believe!".
Read a disclaimer saying, "I come from a long line of smokers who lived past the age of 80!" if true.
@muckquomp They can use my smoking as leverage all they want. Some atheists are known to always have a beer in hand while making videos just for that reason! I don't smoke in my house so I go outside or in the garage to smoke and because I feel as though I think better when I smoke, this is why u see me doing that in most of my videos....plus I'm nervous...;) I dunno...I really do hate that I smoke!
@julzabro There is no question the christian religion has had a positive impact on our society. When's the last time you heard someone say I became an atheist and now I don't drink anymore, or curse anymore, or do drugs anymore. It doesn't happen. Christianity has cared for the sick, fed the hungry, housed the homeless, spoke out against injustice, consoled the grieving, but most importantly preached the gospel of Christ's love and salvation.
@theabiotictheory The reason u "never" hear an atheist say that they don't do (insert addiction here) and u DO ALOT with new Xtians is cuz religion IS a drug...it simply replaces the old drug with a new one! Yeah, and the government has done all those caring things too does that make them 100% honest? I'm not nor have I said that religion hasn't done some good things.....but it does NOT outweigh the bad!
@julzabro The first thing non believers often point out are the wars, crusades, and persecution launched by christian fanaticism. The crusades by the way were defensive actions, they were christians taking back holy land and sites seized by muslims. I'll be the first to admit, these actions were reprehensible. They are also misrepresented on two fronts. First, the people responsible for these atrocities were not using the Bible but misusing it. Second
@theabiotictheory Of course, THEY misunderstood the Bible that was perfectly preserved, translated and conveyed by a omniscient/omnipotent God who, ONE WOULD THINK, would be able to BE CLEAR. This also being a supposed god of love and mercy would make one think that He would've intervened seeing how bady His message was MISintrepreted and seeing so many die BECAUSE of HIM! You're, again, making excuses!
@julzabro there have been estimates made on how many people have died as a result of christian zealots. The figure has been placed between 5 and 6 million people over a 2000 year period. That is tragic but a tiny percentage of the total number killed in general warfare and mass murders over the same time period. The 20th century alone saw well over 100 million people die. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc were anything but christians and even a couple were atheists.
@theabiotictheory Many make the argument that Hitler WAS Catholic Let's add Muslim zealout deaths to the Xtians too! Hitler et al was not "anything BUT Xtian" they had their own twisted idealogies which are NO BETTER than twisted interpretations of old mythologies!
@julzabro There were 250 founding fathers, and 239 were Bible believing christians. Of the 55 who signed the Constitution 24 had degrees from seminaries or majors in biblical studies. The separation of powers with its 3 branches, the requirement the POTUS be native born, the stipulation for the testimony of at least 2 witnesses for treason, and the idea of inalienable rights were all lifted directly from the pages of the Bible. Christianity has been a positive influence in America.
@theabiotictheory It CAN and HAS been argued that many of the founding Fathers wer NOT Xtian but REGARDLESS of that they wanted and cherishes and valued the idea of seperation between church n state and the freedom of religion ALL OF THEM OR NONE>>>FREEEE DOM! SO, as make them as Xtian as u like.
@julzabro What God meant by preserving his word was to protect it from corruption over time so christians can be assured that we are studying the true word of God. Even if the DSS had not been discovered, the copies that we had at the time were as close to the originals as it gets. The DSS confirmed just how virtually identical the newer copies were. I've never read the book of Enoch, but if I ever do, I'll will go into it fully aware that Enoch could not have possibly been the author.
@theabiotictheory The point is God's Word was NOT perfectly preserved...It, as u said, hasn't even been FULLY gathered! So, ur believing in a Book that is unfinished and sorry has been intrepreted so many times in so many various ways that you nor anyone else can claim it 100% authentic! Thus, u have to have faith! If you could prove God or His Word or His miracles or even how He works in your life then you wouldn't need faith!
@julzabro The story of Adam and Eve is a tragic one, but it illustrates the free will God grants us all, despite the circumstances our actions may lead to. God loves us and wants a personal relationship with each of us, but he doesn't force himself on us. For a person to purposely spend his entire life apart from God, and then upon death be dragged into his presence for all of eternity, that wouldn't be heaven but hell. God grants us free will and will respect whatever choice we make.
@theabiotictheory. This "Choice" thing gives me the Willies! It keeps pointing out to my human mind that, this All Knowing God must be either so mysterious (never can be understood) or a psychotic, omnipotent cheap-thrills seeker to obviously be feared.
The problem is giving us choice and knowing the outcome beforehand. Even if not knowing the outcome until say age 8 yet allowing a "Hitler" to be nurtured by some God fearing believers, is so "The Willies" to me.
@julzabro I am simply following God's command to contend for the faith. When anyone levels false charges against Christianity, it is our duty as christians to defend it. I do believe however that anyone who does that which is shameful under the guise of Christianity should be rebuked. There certainly is no shortage of televangelist charlatans and snake oil salesman in the culture today, and these people need to be exposed and their deeds publicized.
@julzabro What non believers often do is point to these con artists and then falsely conclude "if that's what christians are like, I don't want anything to do with them". The Bible tells us, there will be false teachers who will deceive many, so it shouldn't come as a shock to see a few bad apples from time to time. Many non believers will use this as an excuse not to trust religion period, completely ignoring all the good it has accomplished.
@theabiotictheory As far as religion goes the bad FAR outweighs the good and you're deluding yourself if u think anything different. No one needs "an excuse not to trust religion"!!! Did u ever suspect that maybe the false teachers ARE those that teach religion? You're "contending for the faith" by trusting men and r under the same spell as the charlatans! Going to hell for eternity is not free and is NOT God showing respect! God had a personal relationship with us B4 the apple!
@julzabro Human beings cannot decide what is truth, we can only discover the truth, and then choose whether to accept it or not. Do I trust the authoritative views of biblical scholars throughout the ages, who have consecrated their lives to the word of God. Absolutely, because I believe they too were inspired by God. Scripture tells us that heaven and earth shall pass away, but the word of God shall never pass away, and God is using them to safeguard and protect it.
@theabiotictheory Why do u trust men? Ur god tells u not to do this! it HASN'T been safe guarded and protected!!!! it hasn't even been intrepreted clearly...not that it was truly written to be tho!
@julzabro Modern literary historians and archivists have evaluated works from antiquity and the middle ages for quite some time. Purported manuscripts from Shakespeare, Bacon, and others have all been rigorously scrutinized using very sound methods, yet when these same techniques are applied to analyze manuscripts pertaining to scripture, all hell breaks loose, and suddenly those same procedures become anything but reliable. The double standard that atheists use is striking.
@theabiotictheory All ur looking at is from Xtian or religious based sites. Ur not seeing the whole picture. Ur thinking that u're a victim and every1's out 2 destroy Xtianity. Cuz of that, ur NOT being logical! Is there not a motive 4 religion 2 remain? Can u not c in history the connection between religion and politics and MONEY!? If u were really a believer u wouldn't be gathering all this biased anectodotal evidence but would have REASON 2 believe in this god! Ur defending Xtianity not god!
@julzabro The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls just further strengthened the Bible's case. Prior to their discovery, the oldest surviving manuscript copies of the Bible dated to only the 9th and 10th century A.D. The Dead Sea Scrolls pre-dated those manuscripts by over a thousand years to the first century B.C. Upon examination and comparison of the two texts, there was found to be no difference in the substance of the text whatsoever , only in the writing style.
@theabiotictheory Have u ever read the Book of Enoch? There's all kinds of things in there alone that DO change the story and its meaning quite a bit! You can see JUST how stupid Adam n Eve were and how OFTEN Satan tried to fool them and in what ways. They wanted to kill themselves! Much of this affects how we see God and, one can see, why it would be left out or "unfound" for so long!
@julzabro Since then even older biblical manuscripts have been discovered, with the oldest dated to the 6th century B.C. The same result, no changes in the substance, further dispelling the myth that the Bible has been altered and rewritten numerous times. Having the DSS discovered in a broken and fragmented state have given future archaeologists valuable knowledge and insight on how to deal with and piece together any future finds they come across in likewise condition.
@julzabro Correction the Book of Enoch is dated at 300 B.C., but regardless still a thousand years after the fact. For a book to be considered inspired by God, the person writing it was either someone obviously raised up by God (Moses) an OT prophet (Isaiah) a disciple or an apostle (John and Paul), or someone very, very close to the situation. When I say the Bible is 100%, correct, I am referring to its original manuscripts, not the copies. There are some copyists errors and typos in
@theabiotictheory You're trusting the dating method, the authorative views of scholars and claiming a defintion for "inspired by God" or, more commonly used, "divine". God can inspire even those who were NOT 'Close to the situation" or Him....one would think. I made recent video which is reference our debate called SHoe Me the Evidence...Says the Faithful.
@julzabro the copies over the years due to a slip of the pen. We recognize these due to the tremendous amount of manuscripts available, over 5,600. If a scribe made a error he or the next copying scribe would note it on the margins of the page but never make a correction in the text itself, that was forbidden. The overwhelming majority of these errors were numerical in nature or by confusing two similarly spelled words.
@julzabro Archaeology is continuously finding older and older manuscript copies, bringing us that much closer to the originals. What we are finding is just how well God has preserved his word over time. Even though there may be some "errors" in the copies, no major tenet or doctrine has ever been overturned, or monumental historical event been called into question because of a copyist error. Often times the discrepancy is cleared up by another verse as well.
@theabiotictheory Like the Dead Sea Scrolls or that last 1 they found The Book of Judas? I can't remeber. And I dunno if I would say God preserved His word well. Most r in milions of pieces that have 2 go thru a pain staking process 2 put back together....as well as how scattered they r AND how long it's taken 2 find them! A lot was overturned AT the Council and there have been Scriptures debated and omitted. A Catholic Bible includes the Book of Wisdom...my Bibles don't.
@julzabro The books in question were simply excluded, not destroyed. If a person wants to read and derive inspiration from them, I say have at it, no one's stopping them. The catholic church has several apocryphal books included in their canon that we protestants do not use. It is not etched in stone that every christian sect agree on every point, just the core fundamental ones. There isn't even universal agreement among atheists on every issue.
@theabiotictheory Whether excluded or destroyed, it's likely not to ALL be examined prior to belief. Right, as I mentioned Catholics include stuff others don't. The point is Gid's message is hardly clear and not conveyed in a way that you would think a god could convey it. And even fundamnetal messages r fought over! There doesn't have to be universal agreement with atheists, we're not getting any message of TRUTH from any SUPERnatural God!
@julzabro Again I stand by my earlier statement as to why these apocryphal books were excluded. The book of Enoch for examples was written about the third century A.D. well over a thousand years after his ascension into heaven, and besides there may be as many as 6 different Enochs mentioned in the Bible, so which one? You are asking the Bible to adopt narratives that you personally would never accept in your own life. If I wrote a history book that claimed George
@theabiotictheory The point is why exclude ANY of them? And who has the authority to say what was divine and what wasn't? Maybe Enoch being written, if true, AFTER he ascended is yet another miracle...?! Why not? More imprtantly, how do YOU decide! I'm not asking the Bible to adopt anything...I'm asking u to look at this reasonable is all. Or to, at least, have your own reasoning.
@julzabro Washington was president during the Civil War and liked to listen to rock & roll, no one would take such a history book seriously, but yet you criticize christians for not accepting these obvious frauds as inspired works. Like I've been asserting from the beginning, with each turn of the archaeologist's spade, the case for the Bible becomes that much stronger. Jesus tells us in Luke 19:40 "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out".
@theabiotictheory I am simply questioning y anyone would believe wholeheartedly that Books hand picked by OTHER MEN are divinely inspired and not question that. U r trusting their so-called authority to decide ur beliefs 4 u. How can u believe in god when u MAY NOT have all the information OR may have been GIVEN certain Books for man's purposes!? Every supposed archaelogical find that coincides with the Bible is either highly scrutinized OR COULD go with the Bible cuz it does have some history!
@julzabro If there was a coordinated effort over the centuries to "sanitize" scripture, then the conspirators did a poor job in carrying out their mission. There is plenty of objectionable content in the OT the censors could have edited out, but yet it's still there. All the bloody battles, pillaging, subjugation of women, animal sacrifice you name it. Like it or not it is the word of God and is included for a reason. The scribes were meticulous in copying it to preserve for future generations.
@theabiotictheory Maybe the "bloody battles, pillaging, subjugation of women, animal sacrifice " WERE included for a reason.....fear for mind control/power! And no I don't like it....it contradicts with Jesus Christ and contradicts with my morals!
@julzabro Again the concept of the Trinity is made crystal clear in Mathew 28:19, and was not some latter day creation of the Council of Nicea. Arguably it's taught in Genesis with the creation of man "Let us make man in our own image". And yes the Bible has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt, not because it's been shown to be generally right on the things we can test so it deserves a pass on some minor details it got wrong, but because it's been 100% correct.
@julzabro You are entirely correct about early books being omitted from the Bible. It was because they were shown to be fakes by the obvious geographical, chronological, and doctrinal errors they contained. There were instances where the names of apostles were attached to writings that were clearly written years and in some cases decades after the person had died. Such fraudulent writings had no business being included in the canon of scripture.
@julzabro Despite the wealth of outside evidence that supports the Bible, by far the strongest confirmation is found within. In the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the rich man while suffering in hell, asks Abraham to send someone from the grave to warn his six brothers so they don't end up there as well. Abraham gives this famous unenigmatic reply "they have Moses and the prophets, if they don't believe them then they won't believe even if someone were to come from the grave.
@julzabro Jimmy Wales, the Wikipedia co-founder is an admitted atheist and his biases are quite obvious. The Bible cannot be definitively proven because much of it is untestable by man. We can't prove the events of the creation week or show conclusively the parting of the Red Sea, so we test what is available to us through archaeology and extrabiblical historical sources. If the testable data came back negative, then the naysayers would be using the results as ammunition.
@theabiotictheory K, he's an atheist. What makes his comments biased? Is it cause he's not PRO Xtian? We CAN prove and, in many cases, have disproved the much of the Bible's authenticity. If anything, by showing the contradictions within. Even if you prove the age of the Bible, u still have to prove that IT unlike other sacred writings is THEE truth. The naysayers DO use the data as ammunition!
@julzabro The Bible is too specific to be considered mostly mythical with a little truth sprinkled in here and there. When cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were discovered, evidence confirms the fires that destroyed the buildings began on the rooftops. The walls of the city of Jerico were found to have fallen inward, just as the Bible describes. Joseph is mentioned as a high official in the egyptian records and even the amount he was sold into slavery for was the going rate at the time.
@theabiotictheory The Bible is "too specific"? Are u kidding me? It calls ITSELF a mystery!!! God, Himself, CLAIMS to lay stumbling blocks in It! Yes, I heard about Sodom & Gommorah's evidence of fire and I don't doubt that a fire occured. There are many natural phenomenons that can explain this but simply cuz something in history correlates with something in the Bible does make it's HERO nor it's story true! And how do u deny ALL the other religions with old texts that we see evidence 4 2day?
@julzabro The OT is filled with hundreds of instances such as these, and the NT is even more impressive. William Ramsay, a renowned critic, set out to disprove Luke and the book of Acts. He began his archaeological digs fully expecting to easily find discrepancies to expose Luke's account as a fabrication. What he found was the exact opposite. After years of digging, Luke was proven right down to the smallest detail. At that point Ramsay became a christian and an apologist.
@julzabro This whole business of the Council of Nicea is incorrect as well. The canon of scripture had already been set and accepted for hundreds of years prior to the Nicea. We know this by the surviving letters of the early church. Nicea merely reaffirmed what everyone knew to be true, and was called to counter a myriad of false teachings that had begun to crop up. If the Bible is shown to be true in the items we can test, then shouldn't it be given the benefit of the doubt for the untestable.
@theabiotictheory The council was basically trying to make everyone happy. The did, imho, create the idea of the trinity. And how is it that a council of "men" decided what was true and what was not about divine documents? The Bible HAS gotten the benefit of the doubt for centuries! What I disbelieve about it is it's message based on the story itself not it's historocity.
@julzabro Jesus Christ tells us Moses was the author of the first five books of the Bible. I agree no one can prove the Bible. What am aiming to do is prove that christianity is an historical faith based on real people, places, and events, in other words it is not something some just cooked up as the critics claim. People say all the time they don't believe the Bible, which is their right. It is also within their right to say the Bible has no supporting evidence but they are wrong.
@theabiotictheory U don't need to argue that Xtianity is a "historical based faith"! That's obvious! We do know, however, that in many instances it was "cooked up". Things were left out and things were added. The whole idea of MONOtheism didn't happen until Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicene decided to have it so in order to prevent the falling of Rome. This Trinity was decided upon for political reasons! Jesus hasn't even been proved to exist! watch?v=CB4zYq4DmLo&feature=related
@theabiotictheory If no one can prove the Bible, AS YOU SAY, how can you THEN SAY that those who claim It has no supporting evidence are wrong? If the Bible WAS supporting evidence, the Bible would BE provable. Thus far, it is NOT proven as being anything other than mythos sprinkled with SOME cultural and historical flavor.
@julzabro Wikipedia (co-founded by an atheist) has a transitional fossils page. On that page, they go out of their way to trash creationists. They include a list of transitional fossils but this is how they preface it: "this is a very tentative list of transitional fossils". They go on to say: "An ideal list would only recursively include 'true' transitionals". There is a very good reason why evolutionists take this approach, they know at any time, any one on this list can be proven a fraud.
@theabiotictheory An objective essay from worsleyschool called "Evolution" says, "The misconception about the lack of transitional fossils is aggravated by the way we think about species. When people think about a category like "dog" or "ant," they often subconsciously believe that there is a well-defined boundary around the category. Actually, categories are man-made and artificial. Nature is not constrained to follow them, and doesn't."
@theabiotictheory It also says, "Lack of proof isn't a weakness, either...Nothing in the real world has ever been rigorously proved, or ever will...The more and better evidence we have for something, the more certainty we assign to it...creationists use it as an argument against the 'theory' of evolution, which is ridiculous ... you might as well argue that gravity is a theory (it is far from being completely understood), and that we can't assume objects will always fall to the ground..."
@theabiotictheory The fact that Wikipedia TELLS US that these are tentavive examples and not TRUE transitional fossils SHOWS that they're NOT being biased and are being truthful!!!
@julzabro The list of evolutionary frauds is quite impressive or shameful depending on your perspective. There have been the Piltdown Man, Java Man, Nebraska Man, and Peking Man, all complete hoaxes. In 1999 some guy glued feathers on a dinosaur and fooled paleontologists for a year. If you notice every time a so called "missing link" is discovered, it causes quite a stir (prior to being debunked) If science had so many of these things, then why should each new discovery make news.
@theabiotictheory There has been fraud, dishonesty and misrepresentation from creationists as well. I gathered a whole slew of sites showcasing the OTHER side but you're going to believe what u wanna believe. As I said, we can do this all day.
@julzabro The Bible was written prior to the invention of the microscope, cat scan, quantum mechanics, satellite imaging, and even the english language. The text was addressing an audience at a different epoch of time using language and terms they could readily understand. Again we would have to go back to God explaining how he makes a drop of dew to Job. God is aware of scientific principles and physical properties that man won't discover for hundreds of years.
@theabiotictheory So God wrote the Bible specifically for the people of THAT day and not for us? And if, as you've pointed out, they DID get SO MUCH right scientifically...why did God feel the need to candy-coat or confuse the details about creation. It's not as if a 5 year old can't understand these things! And the whole god-has-his-reasons answer is and excuse without rationale.
@theabiotictheory Again, my disbelief/atheism is not based on evolution. Atheism is not a worldview and offers no explanations, proof, comfort...it is simply a disbelief of any gods. You could prove that evolution is wrong and it STILL does not make your God true and/or accurate. There is no logic in using evidence to prove the Bible and using evidence to disprove science as a means to conclude that a god who is UNprovable exists!
@julzabro The Bible does not address the 160 million year dinosaur period because its unbiblical. The Bible is clear, the earth was created in 6 days a few thousand years ago. Science needs billions of years of time to explain there theories. The fossil record disproves evolution, so why should I trust man's assertion that the universe originated from an explosion emanating from an area smaller than the head of a pin and stretched out billions of light years.
@theabiotictheory UNbiblical? Many scientists would disagree with you that the fossil record disproves evolution! And there are many evolutionists who ALSO believe in God! How is the creation of the universe biblical but dinosaurs which WE DO HAVE PROOF OF is UNbiblical?
@julzabro There is a lot of geological evidence for a worldwide flood, so even though most of these flood myths are embellished, they each contain some truth. Since about 1980 geologists have began accepting the idea of neo-catastrophism, meaning the earth's geological column, or sedimentary rock layers, were created by a combination of long time periods and short term massive catastrophic events. The worldwide flood fits perfectly into this equation.
@julzabro There are like 300 flood legends from ancient civilizations all over the world. The Epic of Gilgamesh
however has by far the most similarities to the Genesis account and many differences, one being the dimensions of the hero's ship, not sea worthy, and only 6 days of rain. It is true that the Gilgamesh story predates the biblical narrative by about 650 years, but it does not predate the Bible. Moses didn't write the 1st 5 books until over 1400 years after the flood.
@julzabro Ecc 1:5 simply says the sun rises, sets, and quickly rises again. Those are the terms we use today as metaphors. The Bible is full of metaphors. Also the moon is called the lesser light not that it generates its own light. It reflects the sun's light. Again another metaphor. Have you ever taken a walk in the "moonlight"? How could the Bible mean the earth doesn't move when in Genesis it describes the seasons and in Luke it implies the earth rotates on its axis?
@theabiotictheory Yes, the moon REFLECTS light, so why would an Omniscient God not SAY that? Isn't the point to teach us about His creation? And even if one author gets something wrong but others get it right...it still shows that an Omniscient mind was NOT operating here.
@julzabro The book of Isaiah tells us the earth is a circle, and in Job we are told the earth is suspended in space hanging on nothing. As far as all those stars crashing down to earth in the book of Revelation, the apostle John is clearly using apocalyptic language taken from the Old Testament. The Bible uses many genres to convey it's message literal, metaphorical, figure of speech, prophetic, apocryphal, apocalyptic, etc.
@theabiotictheory As far as Psalms one cannot argue the use of metahpor but Josh 10 having the sun orbit an unmoving earth? And what about no mention of the 160-million yr reign of dinosaurs? The bible is God's way of explaining creation, right? So why, if it's divine, does it only give a primitive/ambiguous description of the world? To me, that, in part, damages it's credibility.
@julzabro There are a number of scientific principles contained in the Bible that man initially got wrong. The fact that the universe had a beginning and is expanding, the number of stars being innumerable, pathogens cause disease, blood being the life of the body, etc.
ShockofGod is the typical poorly educated, ignorant Christian. He lives in a protective bubble of his own volition. However, this bubble he has created does not reside in a vacuum. The willful ignorance and lack of cognitive ability he arrogantly displays has repercussions to our world. This bubble of his is revealed most evidently by the fact he censors comments on his channel and blocks others from posting. ShockofGod is a frightened coward who is afraid of reality.
scotttebben 1 month ago
@scotttebben Well said!
julzabro 1 month ago
Great points. Very well said!
demoskunk 2 months ago
@demoskunk Thanx! ;)
julzabro 2 months ago
@julzabro Shockofgod is a fake. He's not the first one. There have been many of these types of trolls on youtube. Example- tamtampamela for one. He's an Atheist who is just playing a head-game with other Atheists. I've called him out on this and he's never responded. Which is an indication of his phonyness. Yes, there are Atheists out there who get their kicks in strange ways and he is one of them. I have an uncanny sense for spotting them. Why do you think he never shows his face?
somethingdiffereable 2 months ago
@somethingdiffereable Yup! There's also MegaSage007 and a REALLY werid one.....
TPOTTHEPOETOFTRUTH ;) Thanx
julzabro 2 months ago
@julzabro Shockofgod is rather benign in his game but their are others who are actually hurting people. Some might say that dumb-asses deserve to be had. I say these faith-healers and snake-oil salesman deserved to be outed because I have worked hard most of my life and I don't like the fact that frauds knowingly take advantage of knuckleheads. Even though they are of a brainwashed variety. It's all a matter of principles and I'm an atheist with a sense of moral character.
somethingdiffereable 1 month ago
Not true that atheists aren't making a claim. They don't just say "I don't believe you." They claim there is no God.
unowhatireallysaid 6 months ago
@unowhatireallysaid Well, that depends on the Atheist but, by definition, Atheism is a position of nonbelief and it doesn't make a claim.
julzabro 6 months ago 6
S: "What's the proof and evidence that atheism is correct and accurate?"
A: "To start with, the..."
S: "What's the proof and evidence that atheism is correct and accurate?"
A: "Well, I am trying to tell y..."
S: "WHAT'S THE PROOF AND EVIDENCE THAT ATHEISM IS CORRECT AND ACCURATE??"
A: "If you'll just let me ta..."
S: "WHAT'S THE PROOF AND EVIDENCE THAT ATHEISM IS CORRECT AND ACCURATE!?!"
A: "Dude, you need to let me..."
S: "Pathetic, you can't even answer the question!!"
jimbrown257 7 months ago 5
@jimbrown257
Cont:
That's my impersonation of ShockofGod.
He's just a pathetic angry closed minded zealot who completely ignores the message of his religion while obssessing over the fact that there are others who do not believe what he was told to believe.
I can sum up SoG's "proof and evidence" that Christianity is the right religion in six words: He was born into that religion.
Had he been born in a different time and place he would be demanding evidence to disprove Zeus.
jimbrown257 7 months ago
@jimbrown257 I agree 100%!
julzabro 7 months ago
@jimbrown257 Lol! That sounds about right!
julzabro 7 months ago
@julzabro
I also meant to compliment you on your well-worded criticism of SoG.
Did you ever watch The Kids In The Hall? There was one skit where Bruce was in a restaurant and complaining over and over saying "I wanted my bill five minutes ago", "You're not listening I wanterd my bill FIVE MINUTES AGO!"
He wouldn't pay his bill because he wanted it five minutes earlier. It's funny because he was acting just like ShockofGod and being completely unreasonable and not listening to anyone.
jimbrown257 7 months ago
@jimbrown257 Thanx for that and no I never saw that show but will look for it. And that DOES sound like SOG! ;)
julzabro 7 months ago
Well said .... People like SOG know they dont have an argument. Thus they block, freeze ratings, creative edit, quote mine ,down right lie. Use vote bots to discredit other opinions.. Its so sad and pathetic.
seeker6789 1 year ago
I really enjoyed this video.I consider myself a man of faith but do not look down on anyone that does not.I dont judge....God does.I have no right to belittle or judge someone because they are unable to see the truth.
This video was 100% right.There is NO proof for either side of this arguement.I trust the bible and do see it as the word of God but I cannot prove anything.No different than proving unicorns or disproving...Its moot point.Thanks for the good vid.Ban Shock.Hes gives us a bad name
waderp 1 year ago
@waderp Well, thank u 4 that! U r very open minded and that's very refreshing! It's always good hearing from the very small group of respectful believers....or seemingly small in my experience! :)
julzabro 1 year ago
I am Christian but everyone has a choice.A choice in what to believe or not to believe.Shockofgod is a complete fundamentalist and even tried to speak to him as a CHRISTIAN!He was unreasonable and now he has banned me from making comments on his videos.
Granted I AM Christian,a creationist, and beleive in Jesus Christ,but I do not feel the need to belittle anyone.This video was well done and VERY true.
Please do not look at Shockofgod as a true Christian.....he is not.
waderp 1 year ago
@waderp Oh, man...he's banning other Xtians too??? Wow. Thank u so much for letting us know that u, as a Xtian, do not condone his behavior...I knew u weren't all like that but it's always good to hear from believers who are...more grounded....especially here on YT were there seem to be many fundamentalists who have, possibly, gone off the deep end! I appreciate your input!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There is no contradiction, whenever the Bible speaks about astrology, it is done negatively. A person looking up into the heavens to declare God's glory is a far cry from the zodiac. Asking God to be 100% accurate is not unreasonable but should be expected. What happens so often with non believers is that they expect christians to show proof of biblical miracles in order for them to be convinced. Replicating how God parted the Red Sea or duplicating Jesus' walk on water
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro is impossible because these are by their very nature supernatural events and not normaltive. The writings of Josephus and others are considered credible because they are clearly not praising Jesus, just confirming there was a man that some believed to be the king of the jews who was put to death. They accuse his followers of being delusional and attribute any supernatural power he had to magic he learned in Egypt or to demons.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro In there back handed criticism of Jesus, they also unwittingly confirm a key element of the biblical account of his crucifixion, with their mention of the 3 hours of darkness and how it couldn't be explained by a solar eclipse because there was a full moon. Even if we didn't have their surviving letters, we know that a lot of christians were slaughtered by the romans in the years after Christ's crucifixion, many of whom were eyewitnesses to his life.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro People are not sent to hell for what they believe, they are sent to hell because of sin. Man didn't create anything in this universe but are ourselves creations. God allows us to believe what we want, but that doesn't make it true. You can believe the sky is blue and I can believe it's purple, both of us can't be right. George Carlin and even Judas Iscariot could be in heaven right now, if they would have just asked for forgiveness.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro The Bible may contain astrology but it is condemned. Deuteronomy 18:9-13 tells us that the Lord finds such occultic activity detestable. This is precisely why God drove the previous inhabitants out of the land, because they engaged in such practices and he warned the israelites not to adopt their customs.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I agree and find this as a major contradiction. Why would God's message be infiltrated with astrology if HE condemns it? And this is done in a metaphorical way...it's intertwined and underlying the text.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Your insistence that the Bible be proven 100% accurate to be considered divine is unreasonable. In science, the standard level of proof is only 95%, so requiring that the Bible produce 100% certainty is just an excuse for unbelief. An example of just how irrational your standard is, is highlighted by the fact that there are many prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled at various times in the future.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I don't insist that it b proven 100% accurate but that the so-called proofs that it IS divine r factual in that they r highly contested by scholars. Even if I were expecting 100% accuracy, how is that unreasonable? Science admits that it can be wrong and is wrong in many instances but science is NOT a god! Expecting science 2 b 100% accurate is an excuse to BELIEVE as well, right? My standard is not irrational nor can it b deemed so due to unfullfilled prophecies!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro it was a book written with 3rd hand information, and translated numerous times... its impossible to be the same as it was originally written let alone 100% perfect...
in not athiest... in catholic... and i know priests that think the bible is full of bull...
mageac 1 year ago
@julzabro The writings of Josephus and others are excellent extrabiblical sources for the existence of Christ. It used to be that atheist would say they believed Jesus could have existed but rejected any claims of his divinity. Atheists have become so unhinged in recent decades, that many have even boldly asserted that he didn't exist period, which of course is absurd. These early writings are strong testimony to the veracity of the NT.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory "The writings of Josephus and others are excellent extrabiblical sources for the existence of Christ." Yes, depending on whether or not 1 believes them to be authentic. I don't think Jesus never existed but His divinity or any divinity remains questionable whether Jesus the man lived or not.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The beauty in all this, is that God doesn't need you to believe in him, in order for him to exist. George Carlin also didn't think there was a God. He said some of the most profane things about God and made quite a bit of money along the way. Carlin is in hell as we speak suffering through eternal and unrelenting torment. The real tragedy is even on his deathbed despite a career of blasphemy, all he had to do was to ask God for forgiveness and it would have been granted.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Carlin didn't make as much as the Vatican thou did he!? And, no, the real tragedy is that u and others who believe in this god r OKAY with anyone being in a place called simply due to what they believe!
julzabro 1 year ago
Briliant but prob over his head.
pandorachild 1 year ago
@pandorachild Thanx! Lol! Yeah, probably! ;)
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro I accepted his challenge and he banned me.I tried to point out that the question was wrong and he told me i had santa syndrome and banned me :(
The comments he left on the Carlin video where disgusting.
pandorachild 1 year ago
@julzabro No, I'm using the NT to affirm the OT, which is perfectly logical. Jesus quoted from 24 OT books, while the remainder of the NT writers quoted from 34 of them. My sources are biased and yours aren't? Mine are based on sound observable evidence and solid facts. You're suggesting I exchange proven reasoning for wild, irresponsible allegations, tossed out there like hand grenades for the sole purpose of shaking things up? To paraphrase one of your videos "show me your proof".
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I'm sure my sources could be biased as well and any that I present, u will say that about. There IS NO way to prove that the Bible is 100% accurate...if that were true we would all KNOW that God exists...but so far we don't! I could get u better resources but it's so easier to just refer u 2 a YT video or 2 where THEY present resources cuz I know where this debate goes and it truly doesn't affect my what I think regarding ur god! This is y I keep saying we can do this all day.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro As much as you want to believe that a group of men cutting deals in a smoke filled room are the arbiters of the Bible, that just isn't the case. Exodus 17:14 and Deuteronomy 31:24-6, make it clear that emphasis was placed early on to preserve the material as a memorial and as a witness. In Luke 24:44, Jesus refers to "the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms", showing the concept of delineation of scripture into distinct sections had been in existence.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro Josephus, a non christian first century historian, mentions that the jewish OT had 22 books. The reason he used 22 instead of 39 is because the 12 minor prophets were grouped into one book, and the Books of Kings and Chronicles were not separated. Even though you don't accept my so called claims, despite their being rooted in historical facts, doesn't change the equation one bit. Digging in your heels in the light of truth is counterproductive.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Who's digging in their heels? I don't accept ur claim that GOD is real and exists! I already told u that I do believe there are historical aspects to the Bible that r true!! But I've also repeated that it DOESN'T matter if u think ur Bible is 100% accurate and Divine....I still do not AGREE with ur god! What part of that do u not get?
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Who's digging in their heels? I don't accept ur claim that GOD is real and exists! I already told u that I do believe that there R some historical aspects to the Bible that r true!! But I've also repeated that it DOESN'T matter if u think ur Bible is 100% accurate and Divine....I still do not AGREE with ur god! What part of that do u not get? Watch this one...chalk full of archeaologists n scientists and THEN deny it... The Bible Unearthed Part 1- 1
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Regarding Josephus....
The Christ Files - Josephus
Historical Jesus? - Josephus
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro What good would it do to prove my claim to you, since you have already stated you won't accept it regardless even if it were to be demonstrated to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt. If someone showed me incontrovertible evidence that Christianity is just folklore, I would abandon it and seek the truth. Who is the more reasonable one here, me or you? You will have no excuse whatsoever when you stand before the Lord. You can't plead ignorance.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory It wouldn't do any good to attempt to prove the Bible becuz YOU CAN'T! The majority of what ur Bible is, is astrologyy....I saw this early on the first time I read the Bible! Ever watch Zeitgeist? This shows the connections between the Bible and astrology. I highly recommend it! So prove the Bible to be divine if u can but by reason and understanding of its message, it is false!
zeitgeist religion
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro You made the specific allegation that the Bible has been altered. That charge is inherently different than asking you to prove God does not exist. If you cannot provide the proof to support your claim, then it's all rhetoric. God is the only perfectly moral being. Compared to God's impeccable morality, even the most moral man who has ever existed (with the exception of Jesus Christ of course) is complete filth. How you can say you have higher morals than God is absurd.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The Bible HAS been altered and the Books choosen by men! What proof did YOU have? Your proof is telling me that there are scholars and archeological finds that claim the Bible's authenticity and, as I've said already, we can do this ALL day. I can point that your sources are biased and that the claims u speak of r controversial. And I've already told u that none of that matters. If ur kid doesn't believe in u, u think it would be moral to lock him in a fiery basement 4ever?
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro I just watched that Atheist Experience episode you recommended, and I'm left scratching my head. We know from the discovery of DSS that 38 of the 39 books in OT were already in the canon. Also Jesus Christ affirmed the canon of the OT when he says in Luke 11:51 "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah". Jesus quotes extensively from the OT, and in some cases virtually verbatim. Jesus said several times to ones who were puzzled by his teachings "have you not read"
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory You can't affirm a book using the book ur seeking to affirm!!! That's like trying to proove someone's innocence by simply asking THEM if they committed the crime or not! Yes, when Jesus or whomever wrote of HIm lived...there WAS the Old Testament....synagogues and the LAW existed. they weren't puzzled by Him saying "have u not read" but by His new intrepreatation of what they THOUGHT they knew!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro meaning have you not read what is written in the OT. Jesus referred to Adam and Eve, Jonah, and the flood as real people and real historical events. NT writers like Paul and Peter and in Hebrews quote numerous times from the OT, so for anyone to claim these books were not considered as God's word is laughable. Atheists are notorious for making charges, but not very good at substantiating them.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory When did Jesus refer to Adam n Eve...Jonah maybe but I don't think that was HIm...nonetheless, of course, someone who believes in the OT, will mention these figures. So what? Quoting the past from the present is very simple! not sure how that proves the Bible...? I'm not making charge...I'm saying I don't belive YOUR CLAIM! If u can prove it to me, go right ahead!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Here is an example of a so called mistake in the copied text:
1. Jesus is the light the world of
2. Jesus the light of the world is
3. Jesu is the light of the world
4. Jesus is the light of the wold
Can you figure out what that verse meant to say? Jesus is the light of the world. My point is, scribes may make a mistake, but they all don't make the same mistake, and even though 4 may have gotten this verse wrong 50 others got it right.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Even if the scribes got most right, and I don't doubt that, it doesn't change the fact that there r ongoing debates over when certain Books were written, WHO wrote them and authenticity. In other words, we aren't 100% sure of all of it. Not to mention, we're still finding pieces here n there AND much of what we've HAD was picked by men! All of these things and religion's motives tell me that its been tampered with! What we have is enuff 4 me 2 c that I do not blieve in any god!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro This is the point where atheists need to produce some evidence. You are absolutely certain that the Bible has been tampered with, yet you can supply no proof for your claims. All evidence indicates that the Bible we have today is the same as the one being used at least from the 6th century B.C. (minus the NT of course). Ironically it's the atheists who want to alter the Bible, by attempting to have absurd forgeries like the Gospels of Thomas or Judas included in the canon.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory How and y should I "produce evidence" 4 something that U believe 2 b true? Furthermore, I don't DISbelieve ur god or ur Bible SIMPLY cuz there is, imho, not enuff evidence 2 prove them but ALSO cuz I do NOT agree that a god can have less morality than His people. I do not agree that a god can b loving, merciful but allow His children 2 fall 4 His own purposes. I don't agree with much of what ur God DID or ALLOWED! Proving the Bible 2 b 100% accurate only emboldens my disbelief!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro When a biblical scholar interprets a passage of scripture, he is not merely stating his opinion, but arrives at his conclusion after a careful and exhaustive analysis of the situation. Often times if a scholar or group of scholars can't definitively ascertain a meaning, they may conclude on alternate interpretations. I don't worship christianity, but God. I believe in God because he revealed himself through his word and has kept his promise in preserving it.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory If God revealed Himself through His word then we would ALL be believers!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro If God didn't expect learned and righteous men to protect and interpret his word, then why did he need the high priests in the OT. Judges 21:25 sums it up perfectly: "In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes". We would have everyone interpreting scripture according to his or her only morals. The most dangerous god is the one that always agrees with you.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Right, and in UR mind this God "agrees with U"! God didn't always use "learned and righteous men 2 protect His word". He used people that couldn't speak well or were mute even! He did away with the interpreters. Heb 4:10 ...I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts...11 None of them shall teach his neighbor..his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory You said, "We would have everyone interpreting scripture according to his or her only morals. The most dangerous god is the one that always agrees with you." and THAT is EXACTLY what we have!!!! Everyone's chosen god is the one that agrees with THEM! Everyone's chosen god is the 1 that either allows them to hate, makes them feel special/comforted or gives them a false hope.
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory This is a good video including some reasons similar to my own AND some references regarding the Bible's so-called authenticity. The Bible Is Not the Word of God - The Atheist Experience #483
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Regardless of what Hitler's religious leanings were, his primary motivation for making war was not to spread his religious beliefs. Christians chose to serve God in a coherent state. A person doesn't become a zombie or walk around in a trance after yielding his life to the will of the Lord. A person can walk away at any time. Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go out and force people to accept his Gospel, but to proclaim it.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Hitler's primary reason was to create a Superhuman race. I never said a person can't walk away at any time but being gullible enuff 2 blieve something based mostly in faith leaves u open 2 any other superstitions. Many who believe actually think; God speaks to them, they r special, it's ok 2 hate others/the world, that without God in their lives they'r powerless and/or they can or have been healed of handicaps or health problems. Much of that borders on pyscho!
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Believers don't walk around in a trance? MANY seperate from families/spouses if they do not share their beliefs, they lose the capacity to speak to any1 with different beliefs with ANY respect and don't feel like they r required to give any respect, some have been so forceful with their kids about following in their beliefs that they become abusive about it. Watch...
Crazy Christian Mom Steals Christmas From Son
Crazy Christian Lady, Marguerite Perrin on Trading Spouses.
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I gotta tell u those crazy Xtian people scare THE HELL outta me!!!!
julzabro 1 year ago
@muckquomp I don't see how God granting us free will but knowing the outcome ahead of time is problematic. Often times God will send people into our lives to give us wise counsel who we ignore, or allow situations to develop to strengthen us, yet we don't seem to learn from them. God gives us the freedom to make our own decisions, but encourages us along the way to make the right ones.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@muckquomp People want to blame God for allowing a Hitler, but my question is, why did man permit such a man to exercise power over him? Hitler was granted dictator status by the German parliament and few german citizens intervened to prevent the Holocaust. If you want God to eliminate all evil in the world then he would have to wipe out mankind in the process.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory People allowed Hitler to have power over them for the SAME reason people believe in varying gods! They don't rely on logic or evidence but simply...have faith! Watch the movie God on Trial...I think u can find it here on Youtube. It's excellent! And remember that those people who "permitted" Hitler this power as you put it WERE Jewish (God's Chosen) and they believed ferverently in YOUR God!!!!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro A person misunderstanding or misinterpreting a verse or passage in the Bible is not proof that it is too mysterious to decipher, but more of a reflection on the person not doing more research and consulting prior to arriving at his conclusion. This just underscores the importance for biblical scholars to have a working knowledge of ancient hebrew, aramaic, and greek. They can study the etymology of a word along with its nuances and how best to translate it into english.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Yes, cause SOME people are chosen and therefore THEY understand while the rest are just screwed I spose!..? So only scholars truly get God's message? Nothing like being partial, eh? So much for those lacking genius or money for school, books and computers!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro This is why we have different Bible translations like the NIV, the American Standard, the New King James etc. They're all saying the same thing, just not in exactly the same way. Better translations are made possible as scholars gain more insight into these ancient languages as more manuscripts are discovered. This is precisely how critics attack scripture by accusing it of containing contradictions and discrepancies, they level their charges without a proper knowledge
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I don't need to be a scholar to SEE the conradictions in the Bible! And there are MANY translations that the scholars argue about and can't agree on!!!!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro of the language they're assaulting as well what the intent and message the Bible was attempting to convey. To call something a contradiction is one thing, but to demonstrate one is quite another. A book published in 1953 by a member of Hitler's inner circle says that Hitler renounced his christianity. Even if he hadn't, it would not have made a bit of difference anyway. WWII was not a religious conflict. Hitler didn't launch the war to "christianize" Europe.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Again, Hitler had a religious type of ideaology. He started getting into the Thule society. Hitler thought he was better than God and was trying to prove it. I wouldn't call him an atheist by any means but I don't think he was Xtian either. He was a sick man but still yet another fanatic weilding religion's superstition nonethe less!!!!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro He did if for world conquest. I'm not a muslim so I see no need for me as a christian to try and rationalize their ideology. It's true, some of the founding fathers were not christians. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine all were not christians. I was simply pointing out that the vast majority of them were, but you'd never know that by listening to revisionist historians.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory "...you'd never know that by listening to revisionist historians" So let me understand this u believe wholeheartedly that the ancient Bible is 100% accurate even after thousands of years yet you are ALSO 100% sure that recent history was tampered with? I guess you believe what you want to believe! You seem like you worship Xtianity moreso than God becuz u defend it so vehemently. U seem to give more reasons for your Xtianity than for why u believe in god!
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I didn't ask u to rationalize Muslims but we were talking about RELIGION IN GENERAL and how I THINK it's more harmful than good not JUST Xtianity!
julzabro 1 year ago
I know believers who would include your apparent smoking addiction as leverage that Atheist are against good health too. Or that you really aren't following natural selection because, YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO SURVIVE BY SMOKING!
This screams at believers subconscious watching this video. They are heavy into "Live what you believe!".
Read a disclaimer saying, "I come from a long line of smokers who lived past the age of 80!" if true.
muckquomp 1 year ago
@muckquomp They can use my smoking as leverage all they want. Some atheists are known to always have a beer in hand while making videos just for that reason! I don't smoke in my house so I go outside or in the garage to smoke and because I feel as though I think better when I smoke, this is why u see me doing that in most of my videos....plus I'm nervous...;) I dunno...I really do hate that I smoke!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There is no question the christian religion has had a positive impact on our society. When's the last time you heard someone say I became an atheist and now I don't drink anymore, or curse anymore, or do drugs anymore. It doesn't happen. Christianity has cared for the sick, fed the hungry, housed the homeless, spoke out against injustice, consoled the grieving, but most importantly preached the gospel of Christ's love and salvation.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The reason u "never" hear an atheist say that they don't do (insert addiction here) and u DO ALOT with new Xtians is cuz religion IS a drug...it simply replaces the old drug with a new one! Yeah, and the government has done all those caring things too does that make them 100% honest? I'm not nor have I said that religion hasn't done some good things.....but it does NOT outweigh the bad!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The first thing non believers often point out are the wars, crusades, and persecution launched by christian fanaticism. The crusades by the way were defensive actions, they were christians taking back holy land and sites seized by muslims. I'll be the first to admit, these actions were reprehensible. They are also misrepresented on two fronts. First, the people responsible for these atrocities were not using the Bible but misusing it. Second
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Of course, THEY misunderstood the Bible that was perfectly preserved, translated and conveyed by a omniscient/omnipotent God who, ONE WOULD THINK, would be able to BE CLEAR. This also being a supposed god of love and mercy would make one think that He would've intervened seeing how bady His message was MISintrepreted and seeing so many die BECAUSE of HIM! You're, again, making excuses!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro there have been estimates made on how many people have died as a result of christian zealots. The figure has been placed between 5 and 6 million people over a 2000 year period. That is tragic but a tiny percentage of the total number killed in general warfare and mass murders over the same time period. The 20th century alone saw well over 100 million people die. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc were anything but christians and even a couple were atheists.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Many make the argument that Hitler WAS Catholic Let's add Muslim zealout deaths to the Xtians too! Hitler et al was not "anything BUT Xtian" they had their own twisted idealogies which are NO BETTER than twisted interpretations of old mythologies!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There were 250 founding fathers, and 239 were Bible believing christians. Of the 55 who signed the Constitution 24 had degrees from seminaries or majors in biblical studies. The separation of powers with its 3 branches, the requirement the POTUS be native born, the stipulation for the testimony of at least 2 witnesses for treason, and the idea of inalienable rights were all lifted directly from the pages of the Bible. Christianity has been a positive influence in America.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory It CAN and HAS been argued that many of the founding Fathers wer NOT Xtian but REGARDLESS of that they wanted and cherishes and valued the idea of seperation between church n state and the freedom of religion ALL OF THEM OR NONE>>>FREEEE DOM! SO, as make them as Xtian as u like.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro What God meant by preserving his word was to protect it from corruption over time so christians can be assured that we are studying the true word of God. Even if the DSS had not been discovered, the copies that we had at the time were as close to the originals as it gets. The DSS confirmed just how virtually identical the newer copies were. I've never read the book of Enoch, but if I ever do, I'll will go into it fully aware that Enoch could not have possibly been the author.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The point is God's Word was NOT perfectly preserved...It, as u said, hasn't even been FULLY gathered! So, ur believing in a Book that is unfinished and sorry has been intrepreted so many times in so many various ways that you nor anyone else can claim it 100% authentic! Thus, u have to have faith! If you could prove God or His Word or His miracles or even how He works in your life then you wouldn't need faith!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The story of Adam and Eve is a tragic one, but it illustrates the free will God grants us all, despite the circumstances our actions may lead to. God loves us and wants a personal relationship with each of us, but he doesn't force himself on us. For a person to purposely spend his entire life apart from God, and then upon death be dragged into his presence for all of eternity, that wouldn't be heaven but hell. God grants us free will and will respect whatever choice we make.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory. This "Choice" thing gives me the Willies! It keeps pointing out to my human mind that, this All Knowing God must be either so mysterious (never can be understood) or a psychotic, omnipotent cheap-thrills seeker to obviously be feared.
The problem is giving us choice and knowing the outcome beforehand. Even if not knowing the outcome until say age 8 yet allowing a "Hitler" to be nurtured by some God fearing believers, is so "The Willies" to me.
muckquomp 1 year ago
@julzabro I am simply following God's command to contend for the faith. When anyone levels false charges against Christianity, it is our duty as christians to defend it. I do believe however that anyone who does that which is shameful under the guise of Christianity should be rebuked. There certainly is no shortage of televangelist charlatans and snake oil salesman in the culture today, and these people need to be exposed and their deeds publicized.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@julzabro What non believers often do is point to these con artists and then falsely conclude "if that's what christians are like, I don't want anything to do with them". The Bible tells us, there will be false teachers who will deceive many, so it shouldn't come as a shock to see a few bad apples from time to time. Many non believers will use this as an excuse not to trust religion period, completely ignoring all the good it has accomplished.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory As far as religion goes the bad FAR outweighs the good and you're deluding yourself if u think anything different. No one needs "an excuse not to trust religion"!!! Did u ever suspect that maybe the false teachers ARE those that teach religion? You're "contending for the faith" by trusting men and r under the same spell as the charlatans! Going to hell for eternity is not free and is NOT God showing respect! God had a personal relationship with us B4 the apple!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Human beings cannot decide what is truth, we can only discover the truth, and then choose whether to accept it or not. Do I trust the authoritative views of biblical scholars throughout the ages, who have consecrated their lives to the word of God. Absolutely, because I believe they too were inspired by God. Scripture tells us that heaven and earth shall pass away, but the word of God shall never pass away, and God is using them to safeguard and protect it.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Why do u trust men? Ur god tells u not to do this! it HASN'T been safe guarded and protected!!!! it hasn't even been intrepreted clearly...not that it was truly written to be tho!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Modern literary historians and archivists have evaluated works from antiquity and the middle ages for quite some time. Purported manuscripts from Shakespeare, Bacon, and others have all been rigorously scrutinized using very sound methods, yet when these same techniques are applied to analyze manuscripts pertaining to scripture, all hell breaks loose, and suddenly those same procedures become anything but reliable. The double standard that atheists use is striking.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory All ur looking at is from Xtian or religious based sites. Ur not seeing the whole picture. Ur thinking that u're a victim and every1's out 2 destroy Xtianity. Cuz of that, ur NOT being logical! Is there not a motive 4 religion 2 remain? Can u not c in history the connection between religion and politics and MONEY!? If u were really a believer u wouldn't be gathering all this biased anectodotal evidence but would have REASON 2 believe in this god! Ur defending Xtianity not god!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls just further strengthened the Bible's case. Prior to their discovery, the oldest surviving manuscript copies of the Bible dated to only the 9th and 10th century A.D. The Dead Sea Scrolls pre-dated those manuscripts by over a thousand years to the first century B.C. Upon examination and comparison of the two texts, there was found to be no difference in the substance of the text whatsoever , only in the writing style.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Have u ever read the Book of Enoch? There's all kinds of things in there alone that DO change the story and its meaning quite a bit! You can see JUST how stupid Adam n Eve were and how OFTEN Satan tried to fool them and in what ways. They wanted to kill themselves! Much of this affects how we see God and, one can see, why it would be left out or "unfound" for so long!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Since then even older biblical manuscripts have been discovered, with the oldest dated to the 6th century B.C. The same result, no changes in the substance, further dispelling the myth that the Bible has been altered and rewritten numerous times. Having the DSS discovered in a broken and fragmented state have given future archaeologists valuable knowledge and insight on how to deal with and piece together any future finds they come across in likewise condition.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The point is they weren't perfectly preserved and thus this doesn't go with what u said about God preserving His word.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Correction the Book of Enoch is dated at 300 B.C., but regardless still a thousand years after the fact. For a book to be considered inspired by God, the person writing it was either someone obviously raised up by God (Moses) an OT prophet (Isaiah) a disciple or an apostle (John and Paul), or someone very, very close to the situation. When I say the Bible is 100%, correct, I am referring to its original manuscripts, not the copies. There are some copyists errors and typos in
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory You're trusting the dating method, the authorative views of scholars and claiming a defintion for "inspired by God" or, more commonly used, "divine". God can inspire even those who were NOT 'Close to the situation" or Him....one would think. I made recent video which is reference our debate called SHoe Me the Evidence...Says the Faithful.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro the copies over the years due to a slip of the pen. We recognize these due to the tremendous amount of manuscripts available, over 5,600. If a scribe made a error he or the next copying scribe would note it on the margins of the page but never make a correction in the text itself, that was forbidden. The overwhelming majority of these errors were numerical in nature or by confusing two similarly spelled words.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Humans make mistakes. We have 2 decide for ourselves what is true and we only have logic AND reason 2 go on.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Archaeology is continuously finding older and older manuscript copies, bringing us that much closer to the originals. What we are finding is just how well God has preserved his word over time. Even though there may be some "errors" in the copies, no major tenet or doctrine has ever been overturned, or monumental historical event been called into question because of a copyist error. Often times the discrepancy is cleared up by another verse as well.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Like the Dead Sea Scrolls or that last 1 they found The Book of Judas? I can't remeber. And I dunno if I would say God preserved His word well. Most r in milions of pieces that have 2 go thru a pain staking process 2 put back together....as well as how scattered they r AND how long it's taken 2 find them! A lot was overturned AT the Council and there have been Scriptures debated and omitted. A Catholic Bible includes the Book of Wisdom...my Bibles don't.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The books in question were simply excluded, not destroyed. If a person wants to read and derive inspiration from them, I say have at it, no one's stopping them. The catholic church has several apocryphal books included in their canon that we protestants do not use. It is not etched in stone that every christian sect agree on every point, just the core fundamental ones. There isn't even universal agreement among atheists on every issue.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Whether excluded or destroyed, it's likely not to ALL be examined prior to belief. Right, as I mentioned Catholics include stuff others don't. The point is Gid's message is hardly clear and not conveyed in a way that you would think a god could convey it. And even fundamnetal messages r fought over! There doesn't have to be universal agreement with atheists, we're not getting any message of TRUTH from any SUPERnatural God!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Again I stand by my earlier statement as to why these apocryphal books were excluded. The book of Enoch for examples was written about the third century A.D. well over a thousand years after his ascension into heaven, and besides there may be as many as 6 different Enochs mentioned in the Bible, so which one? You are asking the Bible to adopt narratives that you personally would never accept in your own life. If I wrote a history book that claimed George
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The point is why exclude ANY of them? And who has the authority to say what was divine and what wasn't? Maybe Enoch being written, if true, AFTER he ascended is yet another miracle...?! Why not? More imprtantly, how do YOU decide! I'm not asking the Bible to adopt anything...I'm asking u to look at this reasonable is all. Or to, at least, have your own reasoning.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Washington was president during the Civil War and liked to listen to rock & roll, no one would take such a history book seriously, but yet you criticize christians for not accepting these obvious frauds as inspired works. Like I've been asserting from the beginning, with each turn of the archaeologist's spade, the case for the Bible becomes that much stronger. Jesus tells us in Luke 19:40 "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out".
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory I am simply questioning y anyone would believe wholeheartedly that Books hand picked by OTHER MEN are divinely inspired and not question that. U r trusting their so-called authority to decide ur beliefs 4 u. How can u believe in god when u MAY NOT have all the information OR may have been GIVEN certain Books for man's purposes!? Every supposed archaelogical find that coincides with the Bible is either highly scrutinized OR COULD go with the Bible cuz it does have some history!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro If there was a coordinated effort over the centuries to "sanitize" scripture, then the conspirators did a poor job in carrying out their mission. There is plenty of objectionable content in the OT the censors could have edited out, but yet it's still there. All the bloody battles, pillaging, subjugation of women, animal sacrifice you name it. Like it or not it is the word of God and is included for a reason. The scribes were meticulous in copying it to preserve for future generations.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Maybe the "bloody battles, pillaging, subjugation of women, animal sacrifice " WERE included for a reason.....fear for mind control/power! And no I don't like it....it contradicts with Jesus Christ and contradicts with my morals!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Again the concept of the Trinity is made crystal clear in Mathew 28:19, and was not some latter day creation of the Council of Nicea. Arguably it's taught in Genesis with the creation of man "Let us make man in our own image". And yes the Bible has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt, not because it's been shown to be generally right on the things we can test so it deserves a pass on some minor details it got wrong, but because it's been 100% correct.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The Bible is NOT and is never going to be 100% correct! That's what you WANT not what IS.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro You are entirely correct about early books being omitted from the Bible. It was because they were shown to be fakes by the obvious geographical, chronological, and doctrinal errors they contained. There were instances where the names of apostles were attached to writings that were clearly written years and in some cases decades after the person had died. Such fraudulent writings had no business being included in the canon of scripture.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Some Books were omitted because they didn't go along with the idea that Xtians wanted conveyed.
watch?v=phyN5tWUIUI&feature=related
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Despite the wealth of outside evidence that supports the Bible, by far the strongest confirmation is found within. In the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the rich man while suffering in hell, asks Abraham to send someone from the grave to warn his six brothers so they don't end up there as well. Abraham gives this famous unenigmatic reply "they have Moses and the prophets, if they don't believe them then they won't believe even if someone were to come from the grave.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory How does Abraham mentioning Moses prove anything? How can we even believe a story about a conversation from Hell?
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Jimmy Wales, the Wikipedia co-founder is an admitted atheist and his biases are quite obvious. The Bible cannot be definitively proven because much of it is untestable by man. We can't prove the events of the creation week or show conclusively the parting of the Red Sea, so we test what is available to us through archaeology and extrabiblical historical sources. If the testable data came back negative, then the naysayers would be using the results as ammunition.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory K, he's an atheist. What makes his comments biased? Is it cause he's not PRO Xtian? We CAN prove and, in many cases, have disproved the much of the Bible's authenticity. If anything, by showing the contradictions within. Even if you prove the age of the Bible, u still have to prove that IT unlike other sacred writings is THEE truth. The naysayers DO use the data as ammunition!
watch?v=qNcgh15Aa24
watch?v=rFDwK5ko7sI&feature=related
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The Bible is too specific to be considered mostly mythical with a little truth sprinkled in here and there. When cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were discovered, evidence confirms the fires that destroyed the buildings began on the rooftops. The walls of the city of Jerico were found to have fallen inward, just as the Bible describes. Joseph is mentioned as a high official in the egyptian records and even the amount he was sold into slavery for was the going rate at the time.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The Bible is "too specific"? Are u kidding me? It calls ITSELF a mystery!!! God, Himself, CLAIMS to lay stumbling blocks in It! Yes, I heard about Sodom & Gommorah's evidence of fire and I don't doubt that a fire occured. There are many natural phenomenons that can explain this but simply cuz something in history correlates with something in the Bible does make it's HERO nor it's story true! And how do u deny ALL the other religions with old texts that we see evidence 4 2day?
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The OT is filled with hundreds of instances such as these, and the NT is even more impressive. William Ramsay, a renowned critic, set out to disprove Luke and the book of Acts. He began his archaeological digs fully expecting to easily find discrepancies to expose Luke's account as a fabrication. What he found was the exact opposite. After years of digging, Luke was proven right down to the smallest detail. At that point Ramsay became a christian and an apologist.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory
freethought.mbdojo.com/authenticityoldtest.html
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro This whole business of the Council of Nicea is incorrect as well. The canon of scripture had already been set and accepted for hundreds of years prior to the Nicea. We know this by the surviving letters of the early church. Nicea merely reaffirmed what everyone knew to be true, and was called to counter a myriad of false teachings that had begun to crop up. If the Bible is shown to be true in the items we can test, then shouldn't it be given the benefit of the doubt for the untestable.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The council was basically trying to make everyone happy. The did, imho, create the idea of the trinity. And how is it that a council of "men" decided what was true and what was not about divine documents? The Bible HAS gotten the benefit of the doubt for centuries! What I disbelieve about it is it's message based on the story itself not it's historocity.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Jesus Christ tells us Moses was the author of the first five books of the Bible. I agree no one can prove the Bible. What am aiming to do is prove that christianity is an historical faith based on real people, places, and events, in other words it is not something some just cooked up as the critics claim. People say all the time they don't believe the Bible, which is their right. It is also within their right to say the Bible has no supporting evidence but they are wrong.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory U don't need to argue that Xtianity is a "historical based faith"! That's obvious! We do know, however, that in many instances it was "cooked up". Things were left out and things were added. The whole idea of MONOtheism didn't happen until Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicene decided to have it so in order to prevent the falling of Rome. This Trinity was decided upon for political reasons! Jesus hasn't even been proved to exist! watch?v=CB4zYq4DmLo&feature=related
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory If no one can prove the Bible, AS YOU SAY, how can you THEN SAY that those who claim It has no supporting evidence are wrong? If the Bible WAS supporting evidence, the Bible would BE provable. Thus far, it is NOT proven as being anything other than mythos sprinkled with SOME cultural and historical flavor.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Wikipedia (co-founded by an atheist) has a transitional fossils page. On that page, they go out of their way to trash creationists. They include a list of transitional fossils but this is how they preface it: "this is a very tentative list of transitional fossils". They go on to say: "An ideal list would only recursively include 'true' transitionals". There is a very good reason why evolutionists take this approach, they know at any time, any one on this list can be proven a fraud.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Well what u call a "fraud" could be that the term transitional fossil is being skewed by creationists in order to claim fraud!
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory An objective essay from worsleyschool called "Evolution" says, "The misconception about the lack of transitional fossils is aggravated by the way we think about species. When people think about a category like "dog" or "ant," they often subconsciously believe that there is a well-defined boundary around the category. Actually, categories are man-made and artificial. Nature is not constrained to follow them, and doesn't."
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory It also says, "Lack of proof isn't a weakness, either...Nothing in the real world has ever been rigorously proved, or ever will...The more and better evidence we have for something, the more certainty we assign to it...creationists use it as an argument against the 'theory' of evolution, which is ridiculous ... you might as well argue that gravity is a theory (it is far from being completely understood), and that we can't assume objects will always fall to the ground..."
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Wikipedia was co-founde by atheists or secularists? There IS a difference.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The definition of tentative:
1.of the nature of or made or done as a trial, experiment, or attempt; experimental: a tentative report on her findings.
2.unsure; uncertain; not definite or positive; hesitant: a tentative smile on his face.
Excuse me Wikipedia! You label creationists as kooks, but when it's time to destroy their arguments with sound science, you can't produce the goods.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory The fact that Wikipedia TELLS US that these are tentavive examples and not TRUE transitional fossils SHOWS that they're NOT being biased and are being truthful!!!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The list of evolutionary frauds is quite impressive or shameful depending on your perspective. There have been the Piltdown Man, Java Man, Nebraska Man, and Peking Man, all complete hoaxes. In 1999 some guy glued feathers on a dinosaur and fooled paleontologists for a year. If you notice every time a so called "missing link" is discovered, it causes quite a stir (prior to being debunked) If science had so many of these things, then why should each new discovery make news.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory There has been fraud, dishonesty and misrepresentation from creationists as well. I gathered a whole slew of sites showcasing the OTHER side but you're going to believe what u wanna believe. As I said, we can do this all day.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The Bible was written prior to the invention of the microscope, cat scan, quantum mechanics, satellite imaging, and even the english language. The text was addressing an audience at a different epoch of time using language and terms they could readily understand. Again we would have to go back to God explaining how he makes a drop of dew to Job. God is aware of scientific principles and physical properties that man won't discover for hundreds of years.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory So God wrote the Bible specifically for the people of THAT day and not for us? And if, as you've pointed out, they DID get SO MUCH right scientifically...why did God feel the need to candy-coat or confuse the details about creation. It's not as if a 5 year old can't understand these things! And the whole god-has-his-reasons answer is and excuse without rationale.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro youtube.com/watch?v=QWVoXZPOCGk
julzabro 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Again, my disbelief/atheism is not based on evolution. Atheism is not a worldview and offers no explanations, proof, comfort...it is simply a disbelief of any gods. You could prove that evolution is wrong and it STILL does not make your God true and/or accurate. There is no logic in using evidence to prove the Bible and using evidence to disprove science as a means to conclude that a god who is UNprovable exists!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The Bible does not address the 160 million year dinosaur period because its unbiblical. The Bible is clear, the earth was created in 6 days a few thousand years ago. Science needs billions of years of time to explain there theories. The fossil record disproves evolution, so why should I trust man's assertion that the universe originated from an explosion emanating from an area smaller than the head of a pin and stretched out billions of light years.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory UNbiblical? Many scientists would disagree with you that the fossil record disproves evolution! And there are many evolutionists who ALSO believe in God! How is the creation of the universe biblical but dinosaurs which WE DO HAVE PROOF OF is UNbiblical?
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There is a lot of geological evidence for a worldwide flood, so even though most of these flood myths are embellished, they each contain some truth. Since about 1980 geologists have began accepting the idea of neo-catastrophism, meaning the earth's geological column, or sedimentary rock layers, were created by a combination of long time periods and short term massive catastrophic events. The worldwide flood fits perfectly into this equation.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Yes, science agrees there was a flood...so what!
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There are like 300 flood legends from ancient civilizations all over the world. The Epic of Gilgamesh
however has by far the most similarities to the Genesis account and many differences, one being the dimensions of the hero's ship, not sea worthy, and only 6 days of rain. It is true that the Gilgamesh story predates the biblical narrative by about 650 years, but it does not predate the Bible. Moses didn't write the 1st 5 books until over 1400 years after the flood.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory How can you predate biblical narrative but not the Bible? And where are you getting your information?
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro Ecc 1:5 simply says the sun rises, sets, and quickly rises again. Those are the terms we use today as metaphors. The Bible is full of metaphors. Also the moon is called the lesser light not that it generates its own light. It reflects the sun's light. Again another metaphor. Have you ever taken a walk in the "moonlight"? How could the Bible mean the earth doesn't move when in Genesis it describes the seasons and in Luke it implies the earth rotates on its axis?
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory Yes, the moon REFLECTS light, so why would an Omniscient God not SAY that? Isn't the point to teach us about His creation? And even if one author gets something wrong but others get it right...it still shows that an Omniscient mind was NOT operating here.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro The book of Isaiah tells us the earth is a circle, and in Job we are told the earth is suspended in space hanging on nothing. As far as all those stars crashing down to earth in the book of Revelation, the apostle John is clearly using apocalyptic language taken from the Old Testament. The Bible uses many genres to convey it's message literal, metaphorical, figure of speech, prophetic, apocryphal, apocalyptic, etc.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago
@theabiotictheory As far as Psalms one cannot argue the use of metahpor but Josh 10 having the sun orbit an unmoving earth? And what about no mention of the 160-million yr reign of dinosaurs? The bible is God's way of explaining creation, right? So why, if it's divine, does it only give a primitive/ambiguous description of the world? To me, that, in part, damages it's credibility.
julzabro 1 year ago
@julzabro There are a number of scientific principles contained in the Bible that man initially got wrong. The fact that the universe had a beginning and is expanding, the number of stars being innumerable, pathogens cause disease, blood being the life of the body, etc.
theabiotictheory 1 year ago