Part 5 - Craig Evans vs. Bart Ehrman Debate: Does the New Testament Misquote Jesus?

[krishnamurtidude]

Craig should be embarrassed. I am embarrassed for him and every Christian watching this. Ehman destroys him. Craig talks a bunch of fluff and never answers Ehrmans questions. Sad. Ehrman wins hands down. I discovered these same facts in my studies as a student in Bible college years ago. That is why I am no linger a Christian.

[bentopapa007]

Again, Evans talks about Corinthians. Maybe the good preacher doesn't know that Corinthians is not a gospel.

[sendtoanthony]

This debate is a massacre.

[jesusisisgod1]

TRUE JESUS

i come from China, there is only one thing i know for sure, Lord Jesus truly save me and my friend and family more than 15 people when we were wrongly worshiped buddhah as God.we under evil spirit attack with no reason, even worship more buddhad but still they could not protect us, finally, we met Lord Jesus with his Mighty power drive out all devil. It match what gospel describe in the name of Jesus, all devils have to leave .

if the Gospel fake, who help me drove out the demon ?

[ludogogo]

@jesusisisgod1 You helped yourself overcome your own issues; you do not need a God to help you do this because you have the power to do it yourself.

[jesusisisgod1]

@ludogogo LORD JESUS IS GOD

my dear friend, sorry, i don't get you, isn't the son of the most high God is God ? Lord Jesus get all of the authority from father (matther 28;18)father is God ,son is God as well, Lord Jesus is God become flesh (Isa 7;14)(Isa 9;6-7)(john 1;1-3)(1 tim 3;15-16) (john 20;28)(roman 9;5)(heb 1;8-13)(1 john 5;20)(rev 1;8)

Lord Jesus said "I and the father are one " (john 10;30)

"trust in God;trust also in me " (john 14;1)

he love you :)

[LIGHTRONIX]

@jesusisisgod1 stop wasting your time here

[jesusisisgod1]

@LIGHTRONIX Dear frienf, I am from China, hate no one, this is big shock in my life, when Jesus save me and my family , God also loves you and your family too, give him and yourself a change to tell you the truth . without truth God Jesus christ salvation, we all wasting time o earth , go to died without hopelessness anyway, ask him , Lord Jesus will answer you with his way, may God love you for sure, don't give up your faith , friend, may Lord Jesus bless you and your family :)

[aamandinnn]

haha story goes around.But no story can be believed for long if the fruits aka works don't show. Like answered prayers,further healing and so on, wright? I wouldn't believe in God just because one man told me he is real... I agree the stories and words of Jesus has been changed a lot,but the message has stayed the same, and- where The Holy Spirit came from if Jesus didn't mention it as a sign for his followers ?If Jesus is not working why is the church?I'm sorry for my grammar,I'm an europian

[christofthedead]

It's fine to rely on pre-written material as a reference, but Craig Evans just stands there reading from a piece of paper rather than engaging in an actual debate. From what I learnt in school about debating, he would be lucky to get a D+ for this effort for failing to differentiate between a lecture and a debate.

[TheChapusina]

Ehrman did not mention or quote any other renowned scholar. It is only what you think Ehrman? Go and check your historical facts because whatever you said it is not reliable if it is not cross-referenced. It is only your opinion. You FAIL the test Ehrman.

[ludogogo]

@TheChapusina HE IS A RENOWNED SCHOLAR; MOST HISTORIANS AGREE WITH EHRMAN. You need to check your historical facts and not try and commit an ad hominem attack because you don't like what he has to say.

[androy001]

Craig Evans with all due respect... FAIL! Dr. Ehrman has a more convincing argument!

[smkeller2000]

Wow, this is Bambi meets Godzilla. I feel a little sorry for Evans.

[cyborgninja13]

@idris090 WTF are you smoking? The Koran was written in 622 AD. That's nearly 600 years after the death of Jesus. That's even MORE unreliable of a source of the life of Jesus than the Gospel accounts that were written merely decades after his death. Ehrman is most certainly not wrong, and your ridiculous assertion doesn't so much as make a dent in his argument. The cognitive dissonance of religious people never ceases to amaze me.

[MrMonsuralam]

But Quran hasn't contradiction, like son, human, or father, if than read it, and yes it is the modest for modest people!!! LIKE 20000 AMERICAN are converting every year? What is your reply than. oohhh it is thier perosnal choice??

[RPFS2008]

@MrMonsuralam

lol the Quran takes stuff from the Bible centuries later, so if the Bible is unreliable what the hell does that make the Quran?

I'll tell you: not worth consideration.

[MrMonsuralam]

@cyborgninja13 contradiction?, like son, human, or father, if than read it, and yes it is the modest for modest people!!! LIKE 20000 AMERICAN are converting every year? What is your reply than. oohhh it is thier perosnal choice?. You can see no question of Bart have been replied by cray. ISN'T IT shame?? BUT you are the one who can follow the blind person showing the taste of colours!!!? However your comment was most likely Cray read his notes rather understanding what was asked.

[cyborgninja13]

@MrMonsuralam congratulations on making no sense and responding to my on topic comment with an irrelevant rant. You're a fucking moron. Please kill yourself.

[esiosan]

8:57 right after Ehrman ends his point, I sense a certain urgency for changing the subject. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive =)~~~

[andrewlgm]

Whoever said the Koran and Hadith are reliable? They were written 7 centuries after jesus's apparent life. Of all the Jewish and roman historians present during jesus' life, the lack of writing about his magnificent life is absurd. Compare it to Augustus. Writers all over the middle east n further east write about the guy. Jesus? Nowhere to be found. His life is based on the bible. Not fact

[jawatroxion]

@idris090 maybe if people try to go and read those two literatures (where the first one is believed to be the inerrant words of God), they'd get a better understanding?

[55k3v1n]

Paul was the apostle to the gentiles. The apostles in Judea gave testimony to other Jews and gentiles who were present in Judea at the beginning of the book of Acts. After Paul is converted he learns all there was to know about the gospel stories from the original witnesses. Paul then begins his journeys to different areas in Europe and establishes churches there. His main purpose after that is to give guidance through the writing of epistles. It wasn't necessary for him to repeat the Gospels.

[55k3v1n]

No one seems to notice that Ehrman is making things fit his predetermined position. For example, Mark not mentioning Jesus saying anything from the time he began to bear the cross to the point of cricifixion right up to just before He dies, does not mean He didn't say anything. Another gospel has Jesus saying things from the cross and speaking to the thief on the cross. Why can't that just be a case of one adding detail that the other omits. Happens all the time with witnesses.

[illegalbrain]

Craig Evans is an embarrassment to his profession and to evangelical Christians, especially because he knows better. I keep expecting Bart Ehrman to give an altar call.

[kaiyeem]

Bart Ehrman is whooping Craig Evans big time lmao. I wish more so called Christians would read their bibles completely and study the origins of their religion and the earlier ones that came before theirs sheesh.

[COLDB33R]

Notice that all of Dr. Ehrman's arguments are based directly on the text of the New Testament as we have it. Anybody can check out his facts simply by reading the passages he refers to. Mr. Evans takes a completely different tack. Each of his statements begins by citing some obscure academician who says that 'it must be true.' These are just opinions no matter what you think of the authority cited, and generally can't be fact checked by a layman.

[owchywawa]

@COLDB33R Jesus and the Eyewitnesses is available on amazon. It's not inaccessible. Real scholarship can't be done by laymen. If it could, then there would be no point of having scholars.

[ShadeCanopy]

"a substantial core of eyewitness tradition?" This isn't saying much. Is Mr. Evans saying that it is thought that, at the time when the early Christian church, people who had been eyewitnesses to Jesus were, in fact, still living? That does not assure me that those persons were directly consulted to give testimony that was then incorporated into the Bible. I'd like to know if they were, rather than a supposition that it 'might be that way.'

[MrTruthAddict]

5:22 is the crucial point. Pliny mentions a Christ but that was just a title. There were many other fakirs roaming the countryside claiming to be a messiah back then. Jews were expecting a messiah and were clinging to any bozo that came along claiming to be heaven sent. Josephus' Testimonium Flavinium has been proven to be a forgery and Christians have admitted that it was the historian Eusebius who interpolated that writing that mentioned Jesus as a man who did miracles. It's a total fake

[Newf2islam]

Thank God I was guided to Islam

[MrTruthAddict]

@Newf2islam You spelled 'misguided' incorrectly...

[Newf2islam]

@MrTruthAddict

Sorry, did you say you were brainwashed?

[daneshjoo2011]

@Newf2islam

Alhamduillilah

[bernlin2000]

This is the best question asked so far, because Ehrman's argument is absolutely devastating: no non-christian sources for EIGHTY years after Jesus' death? How could someone that (according to some Gospels) was followed throughout the area, some coming from remote provinces, never be mentioned by Greek or Roman historians? Would they be so blind to events the Gospels described as major and city-wide? It is beyond baffling...it's ridiculous.

[rahatkhan]

if you guys are SINCERE christians , then plz study some islamic videos , from scholars such as zakir naik, shabir ally, ahmed deedat, amongst others. We as muslims know that bible has errorsGod sent Muhammad as a prophet for all mankind,wheras Jesus was for the lost sheep of isreal."7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

" Jesus

And who is this comforter?

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan What a silly thing to say. How can a book based on myth contain errors? How does YOUR myth correct the Christian myth? And they were BOTH based on the same abrahamic myth. Any evidence to the contrary?

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution bible = scientifc errors and mathematical contradictions. quran= scientific miracles and mathematical wonders

[bernlin2000]

@rahatkhan Yes the quran says that the Sun and Moon "float, each in an orbit" around the Earth (21:33) and I've barely begun reading the book. It was written by men over 1000 years ago...it's not going to fare much better than the NT, but I would expect it to be more scientifically accurate than the OT, where the Pentateuch was likely written over 3000 years ago. This has nothing to do with the truth-value of Allah, but the fact that the Muslim texts were written much later.

[rahatkhan]

@bernlin2000 the truth value of the quran= containing scientific truths which is impossible to be contained at that point, i.e out of natures capacity to provide that kind of information at that time. for example: quran revealed 1500 years ago,before dsicovery of electricity or even the microscope, yet the quran details the formation of the fetus , the embryo. how is this possible when there is not even microscopes? plz check up on this. if you want more details, let me know.

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan Absolutely wrong. The Quran not only contains BAD science, but it has not produced a single scientific revelation. People are NOT made of dust, nor semen, nor slime, nor water, nor is the earth flat, nor is semenal fluid produced from behind the ribcage etc... You are merely taking phrases and trying to fit them to current science in retrospect. Sorry. The Quran is just as evil, immoral, misogynistic, inaccurate, & just as awful an example of how to live a good life as the bible

[daneshjoo2011]

@AtheistEvolution

1. Sorry but wrong. People ARE created from minerals, semen, the slime quote you just completely made up, we are 90% water, the Quran does not say the earth is flat (thats what the Bible seems to claim) whereas "dahaha" used in the Quran in arabic means slight egg shaped which and surprise surprise the earth is NOT a complete sphere. The ribcage thing is always mistranslated as in arabic it also means from the loin/groin area. Bye.

[AtheistEvolution]

@daneshjoo2011 It is not made up. Although I am not surprised that you don't know the contents of your own book. The Quran says that the earth is flat in more than one place. I am surprised that you don't know that. Well done reading your own book! Guess what? The earth is NOT egg shaped. Bad science. Guess what? the ribcage translation is accurate, and many imams defend it because the seminal fluid is partially from that area. Not all of it. Read up my friend!

[daneshjoo2011]

@AtheistEvolution

BS. You dont know arabic. Indeed seminal fluid IS actually formed (and my field is dentistry so i studied medicine and my bro is a doctor) from the glands located there. EVEN THEN the verse doesnt say semen is PRODUCED in the kidneys or ribcage (Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back). And it refers to where semen SPRINGS from , which IS that area (i.e the abdomen and pelvic cavity which is the area included and where the semen is stored in the seminal vesicles to be ejaculated.

[daneshjoo2011]

@AtheistEvolution

And again BS about the Quran saying the earth is flat. IT DOES NOT. You are referring to places where it refers to the earth followed by the term "Dahaha". "Dah" in arabic" refers to, An egg or spherical shape., A squatted, dumpy, pushed down or pressed spherical object or A circular motion. That is NOT a "chicken egg" The earth IS a pushed down sphere. it is a scientific LIE to say it is a perfect sphere. So the Quran would have been WRONG to call it a sphere.

[daneshjoo2011]

@AtheistEvolution

Furthermore when the earth is refered to as "sutihat" or "Wa Al-ard maddadnaha" which literally means "we stretched it out. So what. Does that say the the earth is flat? Thats what the Bible says when it talks about the earth having pillars. And the "Dahaha" or squashed spherical shape occurs after God expanded it. I have read the Quran, but i dont think you want to believe in anything guessing by your name. Take Care!.

[AtheistEvolution]

@daneshjoo2011 Look it up, the slime quote is NOT made up my friend. I got it straight from My quran. And a PORTION of the seminal fluid is made in that area, but not all of it. So it is incorrect. Sorry my friend. Even if the Koran. How about God having created a man and a woman and all men are descended from them? That is also false that we are descended from a single human couple.

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan Wrong on one count. THey are BOTH full of errors. How about semen being found behind the rib cage? Koran was wrong on that one!

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution "The ovaries are situated like the testicles, in the lumber region, near the kidneys, and descend from thence, gradually into the pelvis." (Sir Erasmus Wilson - The Anatomist's Vade Mecum: A System of Human Anatomy - John Churchill, 1851 - Pg. 639)

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan About 5% of the seminal fluid originates from the Testes. Are you saying that your testes are behind your ribs? You might want to see someone about that. :)

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal.

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan Pretty sure that in embryonic stages a male can't make seminal fluid. Therefor your analogy is still false. The PARTS that eventually will make the fluid once came from behind the ribcage, but not the fluid itself. YOu have strengthened my point. Thank you

Peace

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the back bone(spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area.

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution regardless of what you say, the Quran remains true, so your weak ass arguments are shattered. but nice try, actually it was a weak try as well

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan Perfect argument, and very religious of you.

"Regardless of the evidence you place before me, my belief is true!"

Hard to argue with blind faith.

Peace

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution lol look how dumb you are, i said regardless of what youve said, my evidence trumps your mere words -- bring forth evidence against the SCIENCE i rbrought you , if you cant then keep quiet lil one

[AtheistEvolution]

@rahatkhan When you can't defend yourself, you resort to insults. Well done. I brought you a bit of evidence and you didn't respond.

[rahatkhan]

@AtheistEvolution In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads(ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads(testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal.

[ludogogo]

@rahatkhan I have a book that says the Quran is wrong... It is true, because it says it's true.

[rahatkhan]

In embryonic stages, the reproductive organs of the male and female, i.e. the testicles and the ovaries, begin their development near the kidney between the spinal column and the eleventh and twelfth ribs. Later they descend; the female gonads (ovaries) stop in the pelvis while the male gonads (testicles) continue their descent before birth to reach the scrotum through the inguinal canal.

[rahatkhan]

Even in the adult after the descent of the reproductive organ, these organs receive their nerve supply and blood supply from the Abdominal Aorta, which is in the area between the backbone (spinal column) and the ribs. Even the lymphatic drainage and the venous return goes to the same area.

[rahatkhan]

"Therefore the seminal tubules, tubuli seminiferi, originate from the germinal epithelium, while the tubuli recti and rete testis originate from the primary kidney or Wolffian body." (Karl Abel - Gynecological Pathology - W. Wood & Company, 1901 - Pg. 184).

[wadejared5]

At this point I'm just skipping the Craig Evans part since I can read the same crap anywhere else.

[jimmo42]

It seems that every time Evans answers he is quoting some *other* scholar and rarely makes reference to the Bible itself. Why doesn't he simply point to the places in the Bible that support his position. His arguments are simply the logical fallacy "appeal to authority". Ehrman, on the other hand, using the Bible itself and points out that the Bible is self contradictory.

[HuckMeHard]

Evans: "In a recent book..."..."In this book written by..."..."In a book..."

This guy has no debating skills at all.

[mrplainclothesman]

@amayan80east i am aware of Ehrmann's ministerial experience and where he studied...and who said anything about hallucinations or visions? Encountering Jesus is a heart matter. not a brain matter. and this is what Ehrmann's miserably fails to understand. you can't deny the fruit of how Jesus has transformed people.

[Englishdosser86]

Wow. Evans really doesn't deviate from the script.

[mrplainclothesman]

poor Bart, it seems to me that he's not yet experienced the love and forgiveness of Christ. Lord give that man a Saul Experience.

[Lightmane321]

@mrplainclothesman So despite all the IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Ehrman clearly shows, do you still believe that the bible is inerrant & contains no errors of any kind?

If so, there's no point in talking with you then... is there?

[mrplainclothesman]

@Lightmane321 the word that proceeds from the mouth of God is inerrant; however the recorded written bible is errant as ehrman points out. nevertheless, the resurrection of Jesus Christ is irrefutably true. over 500 witnesses. that's what the christian faith is based on. w/o resurrection as Paul says, "our faith is in vain"

[Lightmane321]

@mrplainclothesman We DON'T HAVE 500 witnesses. We have a book that SAYS that there was 500 witnesses. We have no documentation that proves that this is so. We have no first hand accounts. Christianity is lying about this.

Many, who studied the evidence, became atheists.

But I DO agree with you that w/o resurrection, our faith IS in vain

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Faith in our creator is not in vain just because the messiah did not die for sins, and raise from the dead 3 days later. That was never his job. Read Ezekial 18:20-22, it shows you how to be forgiven, read in the gospels what the messiah reportedly says to two different men when they ask him how to get to paradise and BOTH times he ONLY says to "follow the commandments" no menion in believing he would die for sins. We are all responsible for ouselves, deeds n faith is it.

[Lightmane321]

@Dabo614 So Paul was wrong then? Sorry, but if Jesus didn't die for our sins, then Jesus died in vain. What a waste. If there's any other way to be saved then through faith in Jesus, then again... Jesus died in vain.

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Im saying he didnt die on the cross, and when he did die, it wasnt for the sin of man. The bible contradicts that notion. Really, so pagans didnt hold a belief like this? How bout the trinity with nimrod and his mother? How bout horus, or mithra? Thats just 3 of over a dozen similar stories. Im not an atheist by the way.

[Dabo614]

@Dabo614 Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

ur book says it

[Dabo614]

@mrplainclothesman What you have is 500 witnesses who seen a "live" messiah. He never actually died on the cross, our creator answered his prayer from the night before and saved him from a cursed, shameful death. He hid himself as a gardner, still bore the wounds, asked for food, had to convince people that it was him in the flesh and not a spirit. That was an alive man that never died, the concept of a man/god dying for sins and resurrecting comes from pagans (babylon/nimrod)

[Lightmane321]

@Dabo614 On what basis do you claim to know that this is true? What evidence do you have? Jesus dying & rising did not come from pagans. That's also a lie. They didn't "borrow" this from pagan religions. Sorry. The atheists are lying too. So typical of humans, isn't it?

If you think you can attain eternal life through keeping the commandments, good luck.

You can't. You break them every single day of your life. Try reading the NT. It might help you out.

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Really? Cant uphold the commandments to obtain life?

Matthew 19:16Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

17Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 ezekial 18:20The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them

21But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.

There is your proof

[Lightmane321]

@Dabo614 That's your proof? You offered zero proof. What a joke. and Horus??? Horus has nothing in common with Jesus. NOTHING.

No one keeps the law. No one. You couldn't keep the law for 24 hours, if your life depended on it.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Still waiting for proof that Jesus didn't die on a cross. Are you a muslim?

I'm quite familiar with these verses you're quoting & I'm familiar with the pagan gods that are supposedly "similar" to Jesus. They aren't.

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Proof was given, if you want to pass over much of your scripture that is on you not me. And yes i am a muslim. I did not say the messiah pbuh, has anything to do with horus, im saying that some of the falsehood spoken of him has to do with pagan accounts of other humans. We have free will, are you saying its impossible for one to exercise that will and keep all 10 commandments for 24 hours? Believe what you want, and so will i. On judgment all will learn the truth. Peace

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Read your book, when your done reading all 4 gospels, ask yourself, why the messiah needed the stone rolled away. Why did he hide himself as a gardner, why did he still bare the wounds,,why did he ask for food,,why did he have to convince them that he was not a spirit but was flesh n blood? Did you forget that paul teaches we are resurrected in spirit? Human bodies cannot go to heaven. Again believe what you want, your only responsible for yourself.

[Lightmane321]

@Dabo614 So you're a muslim. Well that explains why you believe what you believe, yet you have no proof that you're right, because you're simply not. But that's okay. I admire that you desire to do what is right & follow God to the best of your ability. So do I. I hope that Muslims & Christians & others can come together more & stop dividing, despite our obvious differences. God bless you.

by the way, I love your last sentence. On judgment all will learn the truth. Yep. They sure will

[Dabo614]

@Lightmane321 Make no mistake, i do not seek to divide people, or claim i am better than others. Im not here to say "my book is better, your book is false" I am simply telling you not to pass over much of your book,,,,read it,,,study it,,,ponder it,,,pray on it. Your book still contains the truth, but will you pay heed? Or will you listen to the man at the pulpit? Only our creator can guide,,not man.

peace

[bonnie43uk]

Bart Ehrman speaks with such clarity and open-ness, wheras Craig Evans seems a lot more incoherant. I wonder if this came across in the auditurium. The audience was obviously on Evans side, yet surely they must have felt uncomfortable with Ehrmans logic.

Of course, I'm an atheist, so, maybe I am biased, but i am trying to listen to, and understand Evan's points, but, to me, he's getting his ass kicked here. No offence Mr Evans.

[ClumsyRoot]

Nice little strawman you made there, Dr. Evans. Way to avoid addressing Dr. Ehrman's points!

[Canbuhay]

Again format sucks. When the moderator has to interject, it shows the format does not induce debate! For those of you criticizing Evans, remember he's probably been given the questions and then given a specific amount of time. Evans prepares his response and no time to directly respond to Ehrman, thus making it look like he is avoiding Ehrman. In fact, Evans does answer the original question posed not the ones Ehrman throws out.

[RCRhythm]

Is this Evans guy gunna debate or just read to us?

[derhammerman]

Bart Ehrman is AMAZING! We need more people like him out there!

[inkillerxyz1]

@derhammerman

Crazy people who yell at you? No thank you. He only backs up less then half of his claims, and those are his own views. Never does he give sources, and he makes an outright lie in the previos video by saying most scholars agree on only 8 general facts of Jesus and can't agree on any specifics. I am shocked, considering books I have read from both Christians and non-Christian historians of the NT say otherwise. E.P. Sanders that Evans quotes so much is a sound skeptic after all.

[hwk1969]

I wish this were a real debate and not just a preaching/reading from Craig Evans.

[mrplainclothesman]

@hwk1969 perhaps because this is not a discussion, it's a debate.

[hwk1969]

@mrplainclothesman you need to watch more debates then...this is not one. Evans could have just handed out his replies to the audience and when Ehrman was done...Evans would just tell you where to read. Reading some of the follow up comments on this vid...I am not a lone wolf on this one. Or I could agree and say it is a debate, just a real crappy one.

[Sammygirl7466]

Why did the moderator give Craig more preparatory information before asking question #5? Any fair debate should have neutral monitors. These two are ridiculously biased. And why do they stand on the platform the whole time?

[felixobu04]

To continue with your example we can say that, 20 years ago, Barack Obama existed because he achieved something important that made him famous: he became the first black editor of the Harvard law review

[pretoshohmoofc]

@felixobu04

"Barack Obama being the first black editor of the Harvard law review"

Ok, then I'll just back up my date then from 4 years ago to 21 years ago.

My point was, before Obama came into the public eye, and we didn't talk about him, was he just a myth?

[felixobu04]

to answer "pretoshohmoofc" point: first, the problem is that when Jesus died he was, supposedly, already famous so there should be accounts of him after his death. The point is that if you become famous, as jesus did, there should be accounts of you AFTER you become famous. To take your example, if president Obama, and may god protect him, died tomorrow, there will be historical accounts of him one year from now, 2 years from now and so on. There seems to be an 80 year gap in the case of Jesus.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@felixobu04 There are accounts of him after his death. All this guy did was say that no Roman or Greek talked about him until 80 years after his resurrection. Well, you are using todays worldwide information availability and comparing it to 2,000 year Palistine. Romans didn't talk about the Wang Mang dynasty either, does this disprove him?

[pretoshohmoofc]

@felixobu04 The Christian sect took years to grow. it wouldn't have been until 80 AD that the Christian faith even started to gain any amount of converts to even turn the head of the Roman Empire. You are dealing with a very polytheistic region of the world. gods in the Roman Empire would have been in the hundreds, if not thousands. Acts 17. In the early days, this sect would have just been another group.

[DoubtingThomas666]

Jesus=Mithra.  Both myth.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@DoubtingThomas666 whether you believe the christian faith or not is not the point. The works of Flavius Josephus; Tacitus and many many more talked about the historical Jesus. There is no question about it. Jesus was an historical person.

[DoubtingThomas666]

"The works of Flavius Josephus; Tacitus" Not many others!!!

Some of their works surrounding Jesus are considered forgeries. Mirror the story and life of Mithras the Persian god and Jesus. You may be surprised.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@DoubtingThomas666

If the myth of Mithra is linked with Jesus Christ, can you please give me any first century account of an historical person who made this claim? If you can't, can you please give me any historical person who first made this claim?

[pretoshohmoofc]

Again, this guy is giving an argument from silence. (6:40 min) No where in the Bible does it say that jesus ever smiled either. So if I use this logic; then Jesus COULD NOT smile? He was incapable of smiling? What he is doing in the debating world can be considered a fallacy. Example: Jesus never said that he wasn't an alien. So if I use his logic, he must have been an alien.

[venya4life]

@pretoshohmoofc ....are you really that stupid?

[pretoshohmoofc]

@venya4life Do you know what an Ad Hominem attack is? That is when you can't refute me, so you insult me.

[Sammygirl7466]

@pretoshohmoofc You're actually arguing Ehrman's point, here, that we cannot rely on the gospels to completely accurate in all the details of the life of Jesus.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Sammygirl7466 No i am not arguing Ehrman's point. He is inserting a false argument that the original manuscripts don't support the manuscripts that the church has from the first century. BUT,...He has never seen the manuscripts that he is insisting has been changed. They no longer exist. He is hoping that you will ASSUME that what he is saying is true.

[Dzonrid]

@pretoshohmoofc Maybe you should read Misquoting Jesus by Ehrman or stop making comments like that.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Dzonrid Maybe you should read Slandering Jesus by Dr. Erwin Lutzer or stop making comments like that.

[Dzonrid]

@pretoshohmoofc Dr. Lutzer teaches at Moody BI. I doubt if he has anything to offer for the scholarly world.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Dzonrid Isn't that silly. Dr Craig Evans is a scholar. And it is him who is debating very well with Ehrman. But if you want scholars try Dethroning Jesus by Darrell L. Bock, PHD, Reasearch Professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and Daniel B. Wallace, PHD, Professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary as well.

[Dzonrid]

@pretoshohmoofc I think he is dodging the questions. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice contradictions in the Bible. There are many christian scholars who admit this.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Dzonrid Look, you asked for scholars, I gave you scholars. Now you are just going to ignore this, and move on to another argument? This is why I don't bother with guys like you. If I did take the time to answer your objections; you'll just do to me what you just did,-shut your mind down, ignore, and go on to another objection. Please go an waist someone elses time please.

[Dzonrid]

@pretoshohmoofc Yes, there are also scholars who think that the earth is 6000 years old. Are they right? I don't think so. If you study Bible I think it should be examined by same criteria as other texts of the same era. If the starting point is: This is work of supernatural being, you are letting your faith influence the result and that doesn't make you a good historian.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Dzonrid Infact, Craig Evans is the Payzant Distinguished Professor of New Testament at Acadia Divinity College of Acadia University.

[Sammygirl7466]

@pretoshohmoofc It's frustrating that the comments list doesn't allow threads. When I said you're arguing Ehrman's point, i'm referring to your post about Jesus smiling or not smiling.

[pretoshohmoofc]

This guy is giving a very clever argument against Christianity. Saying that there is no evidence that no Roman historian talked about Jesus in the first thirty to fifty years or so, would be like me saying, that President Obama didn't exist ten years ago, because no historical peson talked about him either. So If I use his logic, then, we all made the story of Pres Obama up.

[venya4life]

@pretoshohmoofc ...stop making yourself look stupid , or not w/e

[pretoshohmoofc]

@venya4life What, are you like 12 years old? Next you'll tell me that your dad can beat my dad up. GO AWAY you little child!

[Sammygirl7466]

@pretoshohmoofc Actually it would be like no one talking about Obama until decades after his DEATH, even though he is one of the most influential and newsworthy people of his day.

[pretoshohmoofc]

@Sammygirl7466 That is not true, You are confusing today's ability to record people's activities with those of a time when any kind of writting was limited to a region. Infact, The Bible talked about pontius pilate thousands of years before the first physical evidence relating to Pilate was discovered in 1961, when a block of limestone was found in the Roman theatre at Caesarea Maritima, the capital of the province of Iudaea, bearing a damaged dedication by Pilate of a Tiberieum.

[pretoshohmoofc]

We witness this in the police force all the time. We will get 4 different eyewitnesses saying the same story in 4 different ways. Some will give testimony to one thing that the others won't include. Yet there is no question that all 4 witnesses were present to this event. Infact, if it were anyother way, I then would question it.

[venya4life]

@pretoshohmoofc ...god your stupid

[pretoshohmoofc]

@venya4life You call me god? and you call me stupid.