Re: crawlingkiki - Common Knowledge - Creation story Judeo-christianity vs Islam (revised)

[gkraychik]

I'm an agnostic. I hope you are not implying that an evolutionist is necessarily an atheist with your term "atheist/evolutionist". The development of the brain is the result of evolution over millions years of human history (and that resulted from the evolution of previous organisms), if you're curious. I'm not sure what you're trying to get it when you state that we cannot use our senses to detect our minds.

[050996042]

just out of curiosity what do you believe in? are you an atheist/evolutionist? how do you believe everything including the mind was created even though you cannot see touch taste smell hear the mind? just curious man i wanna hear your view thnx

[050996042]

suo dude,

i think you have made a big mistake in recognising what "islamic culture" is you have mixed the culture of different muslims up with what islam is the culture in different countries is not islam e.g how woman are treated in morroco from tunisia is not different because of a different interpretation of islam its because their culture is different and their culture is seperate from what islam is e.g arab christians follow the cullture of their land but thats dnt mean thats christianity

[gkraychik]

Hello. I completely disagree with you. How else do we understand the variations of a religion without examining how the religion is practised? No one individual has ownership over any given religion. No one person is in the supreme position to define what is and is not Jewish/Christian/Islamic. Bear in mind that I am not ignoring commonalities, I am sure there are many religious principles which can characterize various faiths due to their widespread (but rarely absolute) acceptance.

[gkraychik]

For instance, if I receive different answers to a theological question from different Muslims, that's ok! There is no ONE PROPER way to practise Islam. Just as there is no ONE PROPER way to practise other faiths. If a Jewish person or group commit crimes based on their understanding of Judaism, I cannot disavow them from Judaism. I can state that their behavior doesn't represent MY perspective of Judaism, but I cannot pretend that they aren't Jews.

[gkraychik]

You also make this distinction between religion and culture, which are obviously different things (hence they are different words!), but religion and culture are also deeply connected. There are various interpretations of what Islam is between various Muslim groups, and that's ok! That's natural with religion. Regarding the treatment of women in various cultures, I am in no way implying that the different approaches to treating women between various countries is absolutely the product of...

[gkraychik]

....different religions, but that religious traditions and perspectives play a role in shaping gender relations. It is not an entirely meaningless relationship between the poorer status of women in many Arabic countries and the Muslim majorities of those countries. Clearly the religious traditions of Muslims in many of these Arabic countries has an impact on the status of women in those countries. Clearly this isn't a shared perspective among all Muslims worldwise, but it is relevant...

[gkraychik]

...when examining causes for these differences between Arabic countries with Muslim majorities and Western and pluralistic countries with secular societies. Peace.

[crawlingkiki]

You contradict yourself way too much. In your video you said it's over-simplifying gender relations to attribute attitudes towards women in light of their religious texts/traditions, purporting this agricultural theory which is by the way just a theory as all of these things are that we are discussing. We don't happen to care if someone disagrees with our perspective of their religion, but isn't the subjective nature of religion which you keep insisting upon the cause of our understanding?

[gkraychik]

Just because there religion is subjective in nature doesn't make it ok to completely mischaracterize a religion by explaining a non-existent or fringe understanding of the faith. If I find a Muslim who worships idols, it would be misleading for me to use him/her as an example of mainstream Islam. In your video, you describe a non-existent (or at best, fringe) Jewish perspective of creation as respresentative of the faith.

[gkraychik]

The subjective nature of religion doesn't mean one can use exceptions found in the religion as examples of widespread trends of the religion. The theory regarding agriculture's significant impact on gender relations is very solid, and has stood up to a lot of historical research.  There is much more value to the academic examination of broad trends than there is to subjective analysis of religious verses when attempting to increase our knowledge of broad social phenomenons.

[crawlingkiki]

Ok oh pretentious one what exactly have we gotten wrong and why can't you just explain that instead of talking in these pedantic generalities trying to make yourself feel good? Give us some substance to work with.

[gkraychik]

Listen, your perspectives are deeply flawed at a very broad level. You're wrong before you even start talking, in a way. If you can't get broad concepts, why should I even bother going into the details? From your useage of the term "Judaeo-Christian" in a misleading, oversimplified way... to your assertion that Zionism is internally contradicted from a Jewish religious perspective (a fringe perspective of a small group of Jews) eternally imposing exile on us until the return of the messiah.

[gkraychik]

At a very basic level (even simple persons such as yourself should grasp this), even an elementary examination of contemporary societies isn't compatible with your assertion that women are held in a higher status in the Islamic faith than in the Jewish or Christian faiths (both of which you lump together irresponsibly). In all honesty, I view all these three religions are relatively equally patriarchical. I would argue that a more significant factor contributing to the non-debateable...

[gkraychik]

...lower social/economic status of women in Arabic countries with Muslim majorities when compared to western nations is the lack of adoption of liberal democratic political philosophy. In other words, less important to this phenomenon is Islam than the lack of democratic liberal institutions. On the other hand, however, the strong Islamic traditions may be difficult to reconcile with modernity and liberal democratic values.

[gkraychik]

This is clearly a subject broad in scope, and, I would argue, out of your league. You lack both the intellect and objectivity to approach this subject in a meaningful way.