Bach - PASSACAGLIA & Fugue in C minor, BWV 582 - part 1 of 2

[dsa10]

To hear another interpretation of this piece on a pedal harpsichord, on a richer instrument which is more similar to harpsichords of Bach's time, search on download sites for "Pro Cembalo Pleno"

[MrFuryGuy]

Very interesting! Splendid!

[svaneholmsfilm]

Nice :-)

[VolodiaLukianov]

Why not? It is very interesting!

[martinborgen]

I've read that since a (salaried) person was required to keep the organ running (puping air into the resevoires, etc.), organists usually practised on other instruments - quite possibly a harspichord such as this I can imagine.

[jimamia77]

Getting sick of the organs! In reality, ALL organs are in need of electric power! This harpsichord pedal monster still allows pure human energy to create music! A true orchestral organ must acquire all of it's power from human exercise! Glucose fuel! The true organ is the beast that plays in a blackout!!

[eskatee]

Majestic

[tamiasthechipmunk]

Amazing. I've never seen nor heard a harpsichord that featured a pedal board until now. Beautiful and rich sound.

[cggage]

@tamiasthechipmunk Nor had I! I have seen plenty of harpsichords but never one with pedals. Very interesting sound! I like it. It must take an organist's training to do both the keyboards and pedal-board.

[Owdfolkie]

I've a lot of time for E. Power Biggs - he did a lot to promote the organ as an instrument for the home as well as large halls & churches.

I had the privilege to see him play live many years ago, when he was touring England demonstrating home organs and plugging his 'Anchor Chord' organ tutor series.

I've never heard this piece on pedal harpsichord, but it works very well! Yes, the piece is very different in character, but not in a bad way!

Oh, and EPB was of English birth, too...

[MasterOfPower52]

Voilà une version très intéressante!

[floml]

Organ pipes are quite slow to speak compared to the fast attach of the harpsichord, which leads to the kind of rolling momentum which is the signature of organ versions of this piece. With their fast attacks harpsichords tend towards snappier renditions which makes this performance seem so different to those who know the P&F in C. For me the very essence of this piece is the massive legato quality of the pedal theme which is tough to translate to an inherently staccato instrument.

[Tehinstrumentalist]

everyone is having problems with harpsichord taking over from the organ in this case, just deal with it. bach liked harpsichord too, he just might not have had a pedal harpsichord! he might've been unable to play it on this! his harpsichord works are all manuals only anywhom, so cut out the complaints about the organ sound, i like both versions. i don't have favourites cause it's the same music. at least it's not in a romantic piano style!

[bachinblack94]

@MusicPredominates

Incorrect??

Maybe my explication isn't very technical, but the concept is this...Or, better, my composition teacher taught me so...

[jimamia77]

Registration!!! They stuffed all the pipes in there for a reason!! It don't look like a guitar!! Pull the stops!

[BonjourBit]

I've never heard the piece before, but i think it sounds beautiful with this instrument.

[brtherjohn]

@BonjourBit That's all that really matters!

[rmanzanog1]

@BonjourBit

An old popular song "The House of the Rising Sun" (The Animals) has also a passacaglia tempo. But of course Bach is much better.

[atsaka]

@BonjourBit I know the piece. And it really sounds good with this instrument.

[pobinr]

Bach transcribed organ fugue 539 to violin or was it the other way. The point is Bach had no hangups about playing his works on vastly different instruments. This sounds great on harpsichord. I have his Trio sonatas normally played on organ, played by E. Power Biggs on harpsichord. Bach sounds great on any instrument. It such intrinsically brilliant music.

[drewlink99]

I want one

[plaidbeige]

I've only known the E.Power Biggs version of this on Pipe Organ and love it. So this is a new experiance for me and I love it. I dig the harpsicord just as much so it's awesome to hear it on such a different instrument. I can;t wait to check out Robert Fripp. This is why i come to Youtube. Yo hear so many different versions of thing and new stuff for that matter. So I thank brtherjohn for the input and especially for uploading this version. It's amazing.

[donques]

i have never encountered more opinionated anal-retentives than among early music fans and players. reminds me of the jerks at conservatory who listen outside the practice rooms for mistakes of others. this is a truly wonderful recording!

[hohenbalken]

Not so majestc like on organ, but very interesting.

Excellent player!

[gspaulsson]

I like this. It has more clarity than on the organ.

[MorkaGraven]

@gspaulsson But the organ is infinite times more awesome.

[gspaulsson]

@MorkaGraven I don't know. Some of the organ performances on youtube are just a mess, and nowadays you can get awesome just by cranking up the volume.

[jwprice89]

How does he get that pizzicato effect at 6:00?

[Timrath]

@jwprice89 Many harpsichords can do that. It's called the "lute stop". You just have to pull a lever. :-)

[carlosclavisimbalum]

This is fabulous music played by a master of the pedal harpsichord. Great to see the early revival instrument being used here. Anyone know who made it. If you like E Power Biggs try his LP, "Scott Joplin on the pedal harpsichord".

[resultant64]

Quite majestic... nice...

[bachinblack94]

@polkusin >> counterpoint goes beyond every human possibility.

Maybe Bach wasn't human...

[triclops20]

@bachinblack94 Seeing as Bach was a music playing ET from Fugatarias XD...

[polkusin]

also, this is some really, really wonderful stuff. now I want a pedal harpsichord too :D

[resonantdave]

Oooh, not my favorite way to interpret this piece. BACH WAS NOT FRENCH.

[brtherjohn]

@resonantdave A bewildering and amusing comment! What exactly makes this sound "French"? Bach in fact wrote things in a french style, so he had nothing personally against the them. Personally, I think Bach would have adored this playing - and on this instrument - and probably would have liked his works on the Moog synthesizer as well. He wrote in many musical styles and transcribed compositions and works by others for a variety of ensembles. Bach sounds good on everything!

[resonantdave]

@brtherjohn short-long,short-long, short-long... was called the "french" style back then. He did use that in some of his works he labled "french", though not all. His evenness in this composition was distinctly influenced by Buxtehude's Passacaglia-like pieces and Pachelbel's Ciaccona in D minor. This song actually borrows many of it's themes from those two. This would have been recognized at the time. This piece was Bach's way of saying, "I am the next great German master". And he was.

[resonantdave]

I dunno, I think because the moving parts were given their rhythms in a very intentional way he might not have liked this. Again, those seemingly simply moving parts are a direct reference to the other works. Also.... it really just doesn't have the same effect of leading you through.

The pedal harpsichord, I believe, existed in his time.

[Mrababab121212]

@brtherjohn Yes brtherjohn - you are right, I used to play it on my own pedal Clavier und ich have nichts dagegen - well and if you thing this piece sounds well on everything I feel most delighted by your praise - you are far better musicians most of them than I used, I do not admit to this with ease but I liked fairness in my classes - and balance you know in my score ABOVE ALL except G.. your Johann Seb Bach Cantor zzu Leipziger Knaben Schule zur Zeit - leider - im Graben.

[cliveso]

@resonantdave E Power Biggs is a massive buffoon.

[bachinblack94]

D'uh! The sound of the harpsichord lose the majestic effect of the organ sound.. .

[brtherjohn]

@bachinblack94 Nah! Just different. There are several other arrangements of this piece including a full orchestral arrangement by Stokowski. Check it out!

[bvsiness]

@brtherjohn ... not specially an arrangement (actually this one is...) but the very sound that Bach had in his hears all the time. No possibility to practice at a real pipe organ at this time.

[bvsiness]

@bachinblack94 Bach had surely no electric compressor in his organ (like all other organists till partly in the 1950's) and no possibility to pay all the time human bellows'ers to practice in the church. Nothing said about the winter temperatures in Germany. No virtual pipe-organ, no residence-organ (same problem with actionning the bellows).

So he had to practice on a pedal harpsichord, compose on the PH, improvise on the PH, make music for the daily family worship on the PH etc.

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness Yeah, true! But the final execution was on organ! And I bet it was A-MA-ZING!

[bvsiness]

@bachinblack94 The final execution is not the point. For the music lover, theres place for what Bach had in hear and for what he daily heared. Probably 90% pedal-harpsichord and pedal-clavichord, and 10% pipe-organ. Considering that at this time compositions where developped directly at the instrument, without any piece of paper, you get a better idea of the genesis of his organ music and the legacy of harpsichord in his musical thinking.

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness All that you're saying is right. But... how can I say? This piece maybe was composed on a PH, but was evidently thinked for organ... Held notes, powerful chords and some other effects that I can't name in English, are compositional devices tipical of organ music...

[bvsiness]

@bachinblack94 hello, I am just saying, here (on the PH) we hear the genesis sound of this work (and others organ works). The interpretations and rehearsals on the organ was merely "the proof", but not the incubator. That he had the organ as wish-sound makes no doubts. But between inner hear and acoustic reality theres a step. So the PH had an unknown influences on the genesis of organ works - and the other side: what would have been B'organ works if he would have had composed directly 4 organ?

[bvsiness]

@bvsiness BTW: I studied sacred music in Germany and worked there for 20y as church musician. Practice in winter in an non-heated church is just impossible. Your fingers just freeze to death. Not spoken about blower-guys. Today we have electricity and practice organs in our homes. Bach more probably had a pedal-clavichord (than a PH) for his home use. He said clearly his preference for the PC.

[bvsiness]

@bvsiness BTW: I studied sacred music in Germany and worked there for 20y as church musician. Practice in winter in an non-heated church is just impossible. Your fingers just freeze to death. Not spoken about blower-guys. Today we have electricity and practice organs in our homes. Bach more probably had a pedal-clavichord (than a PH) for his home use. He said clearly his preference for the PC.

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness Even Leonardo da Vinci developed his artworks on sketches drawn with red pencil, and there is a big difference between the planning sketch and the work in oil on canvas. But when you go to the Louvre you see the final work, (the Mona Lisa, for example) and you generally dont care about the way Leonardo planned it. So, if you are an art scholar, and you're studying Leonardo, you must to see even the sketch, if you want to understand the artist. So you're right: if I, as a musician, >>

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness >> want to understand the genesis of Bach's music, I must listen his work on a PH... But only for studying purposes, because the final product, the "artwork", is on the organ. And if I want simply to enjoy the musical piece, personally, I prefer it on the organ. What would have been Bach's music if he would have had composed directly on organ? What would have been Leonardo's pictures if he would have had painted directly oil on canvas? I think we'll never know.

[bvsiness]

@bachinblack94 Quite interesting. Theres a point to consider, the composition technic. We imagine mostly people composing with the help of a piano, having an idea, a sketch, all pre-planed. Or even composing at the table like "this-must-be-so" in french composition exams. Now read some of introductories from the hand of Bach, like the one for the inventions. Compose at this time = improvise in our words. Got it? On the other hand, I am sure that improvising on the PH was for Bach music itself >>

[bvsiness]

@bvsiness << so more probably composers (mostly organists at this time) improvised first, refined their impro, improved the plan and then wrote it down when they thought, this could be good for pupils to study that stuff. Honestly, no idea if the instrument does matter. I dont feel I compose differently on the organ that on the piano, but I appreciate my PH on my VPO, this is nice to practice baroque music.

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness The composition at Bach's time was quite more complex than improvising and then refine the impro. Bach wasn't Chopin, probably hadn't an impro-based composition tecnique (the tecnique used by romantics, or, in contemporary times, by jazz or rock musicians), for the simple matter that he wrote counterpoint music, and is impossible to play a counterpoint impro. Though, he also wasn't a simphonic composer, he rarely used an orchestra, and then it's difficult to think Bach as a >>

[polkusin]

@bachinblack94 hm, I seem to remember a number of stories about Bach improvising counterpoint... why should it be impossible? just difficult. :)

[bachinblack94]

@polkusin Bach didn't never improvised counterpoint pieces. The pieces you know Bach improvised are only the toccatas and the fantasias, that are pieces without counterpoint. Do you play any instrument? An human mind, even a genial mind as Bach, can improvise a melody on a progression of chord. Is very difficult to improvise a melody when you haven't a progression, but only another melody. You can maybe improvise a two-part counterpoint, but i think to improvise a three, four or five part >>

[babunolog]

@bachinblack94 You obviously don't know what counterpoint is, despite your education? But don't worry, you are still too young. There is counterpoint in _everything_ Bach wrote. And many others of that time. And they surely improvised all the time. It's not mathematics as you imagine.

[bachinblack94]

@babunolog Are you sure?

Counterpoint (from the latin "punctus contra punctum", i.e. "note against note") means a compositive tecnique largely used in XVI, XVII and early XVIII sec. In counterpoint music there is no difference between melody, chords and background, becase music is developed by different voices playing different melodic lines overlapped on each other, "note against note". There isn't counterpoint, for example, in Bach's cello or lute works, or in some parts of organistical>>

[bachinblack94]

@babunolog >> toccatas (like the famous toccata from "Toccata and Fugue in D minor", where there is only a musical line for both hands.) or preludes (like the famous prelude n.1 from WTC book 1, where there is some arpeggios). Yes, counterpoint isn't a mathematical thing, but I play the piano, and I know that is quite difficult, if not impossible, improvise a counterpoint piece.

Yes, maybe i'm too young... but I study composition ;-)

[bachinblack94]

@bvsiness >> "table composer", like, for example, Mozart, or other orchestra composers (think at the beautiful "confutatis scene" from the film "Amadeus"). So, Bach's composing tecnique is a real riddle for us. I frankly had no idea about it.

(P.S. the discussion is very interesting. may we continue it on private messages? I think we are clogging a chat ;-) )

[MusicPredominates]

@bachinblack94 : Incorrect !

[SexyMusik1]

I am no scholar here; I actually listen to a lot of punk rock, but I studied cello for a few years, so I was explicitly exposed to classical music. 1. Baroque is still my favorite of the four major time periods. 2. Awesome that this is a vinyl rip! Vinyls forever!! 3. Pedal Harpsichord?! This is my favorite J.S. Bach organ work, but then I have not heard every one. I love it on the harpsichord. 5:31 is my favorite part of the piece, no matter the arrangement or instrument.

[brtherjohn]

@SexyMusik1 You might want to check out Robert Fripp's California Guitar Trio and his League of Crafty Guitarists albums for some fascinating guitar note-for-note reproductions of some of Bach's works - including this Passacaglia.

[contraposaune]

Just reminded me that i need to learn this on the organ! Excellent playing! I love the pedal harpsichord, genius. seen them but never played them, as with pedal piano's, a great alternative for an organist who is interested in harpsichords!

[irinayugiohfan]

Beautiful music...

[l000kin]

WOW! I want to have such an instrument! :-D I'm organist, pipe organ with pedal is for me obvious, I played also harmonium with pedal, but harpsichord with pedal is for me really new think. And it sound awesome.

It is also interesting, that baroque music (Bach, Buxtehude, ...) you can play on almost every instrument and it sounds always great. Baroque music is simple essence of genius.

[brtherjohn]

@l000kin From marimba to moog synthesizer, Baroque music sounds best on virtually anything!

(Be sure to check out my entire upload of the rest of this Biggs album!)

[l000kin]

@brtherjohn Yes! All this album is full of incredibly great music! Thank you much for uploading. Are there any other recordings of pedal harpsichord with mr. Biggs?

[brtherjohn]

@l000kin There are only a few. At the top of my head, he also did an album of Bach Trio Sonatas on pedal harpsichord. And a double LP of various classical composers, and a well-known disc of Scott Joplin samplings!

[JupiterIV]

@l000kin Check out the Borgato Piano Company. They're doing the same concept, but with the Piano

[MrSkyHarbor]

@brthrjohn: You know, I think you're RIGHT! Forgive me... working from memory as many CD's lost in the last war! ;-} But clearly, you are familiar... ya can't snow a snowstorm!

But regardless, a great 2 minutes of music!

Do you listen to any 20th century+ stuff? I'd be interested.

[brtherjohn]

@MrSkyHarbor 20th Century music - but of course! That incorporates a wide range of styles...

[MrSkyHarbor]

@brthrjohn: don't mean to pester... Bernstein's NY Phil. version (YT doesn't allow URLS... just search on Eroica and Bernstein...

Copies Bruno Walter rather closely. Worth a listen!

[brtherjohn]

@MrSkyHarbor Certainly! Now did you mean Walter and the Columbia SO instead of Chicago?

[MrSkyHarbor]

@brtherjohn: I must admit that it is the Passacaglia which grabbed me on this work! You want to hear a great fugue? Listen to Bruno Walter & Chicago Sym. Orch. version of Ludwig Van's 3rd ('Eroica') movement 2 ('Marcia funebre': marked 'Adagio Assai')... probably NOT coincidentally ALSO in C minor! In less than 2 minutes, Beethoven takes the fugue to a NEW place. Amazing!... A little past the 3:00 mark it BEGINS... simply stunning! Thanks again for THIS!

[MrSkyHarbor]

@brtherjohn: I would welcome hearing the whole thing again. BTW, the suggested clip time limit is now 15 minutes. So BWV 582 could be posted all in one piece (you broke it up at the right spot though!). Thanks again!

[brtherjohn]

@MrSkyHarbor I wholeheartedly agree to do this - as it's a shame that the corresponding Fugue's views is somewhat neglected here by comparison.

[MrSkyHarbor]

@brtherjohn: Thanks so much for uploading this! I've searched for this LP ever since I first heard it way back in the early '70's. It was a revelation! Still IS!

[brtherjohn]

@MrSkyHarbor You're welcome! I guess I should just post the entire LP!

[DarkwingScooter]

This is like porn for harpsichord lovers. It is hard to express in words just how awesome a noise this instrument makes.

[tjames44444]

RIP



[BigOrganPipes]

I have this LP

bravo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alastairjmnewman]

Does anyone know where this available on CD? I've been scouring the internet for it, but no luck...

[brtherjohn]

@alastairjmnewman The only Biggs/pedal harspichord CD I've seen to date is the Trio Sonatas. Nothing else, not even the Joplin recordings can be found currently on CD...

[tmwood82]

@alastairjmnewman If you ever find out, please let me know! I can't find it either. I've got mp3s of the Trio Sonatas and the Joplin recordings, but I can't find any of EPB's other pedal harpsichord stuff...

[alastairjmnewman]

Does anyone know where this is available on CD? I've scoured the internet and can't find it anywhere...

[kasyapa]

i wonder where this instrument is now? it should be studied to learn challis' secrets.

[rollsroyce59]

Pedal Harpsichord ..next best thing to a 4000+ pipe organ. Thanks for saving this recording!

[TheJackHarkness]

I meant *stop

[TheJackHarkness]

What is that soft spot?? Is he plucking the strings himself??

[brtherjohn]

@TheJackHarkness I'm not an expert on keyboards but I think it's a pedal that mutes or dampens the strings.

[TheJackHarkness]

@brtherjohn I meant 'stop' btw.

And that might work on a piano but I doubt that any harpsichord has a dampening pedal lol.

[BenMcCormack91]

@brtherjohn Harpsichords sometimes have two manuals or more, like in the picture on this video. These manuals are for the purpose of having what are called "terraced" dynamics. The keys on one manual are set to pluck their strings more softly, the keys on the other more loudly. So you can't really have a growing or receding sound; you can just have as many volume levels as there are manuals.

[MICHKAC]

@TheJackHarkness

It's done with what's called a buff stop, a device which partially damps the strings with small pieces of leather or felt. They're on a rail which can be moved laterally either by hand or by means of a pedal, though many harpsichordists today refuse to have anything to do with the latter.

[TheJackHarkness]

@MICHKAC Thank you for this! Is there any video demonstrating this?

[kasyapa]

TheJackHarkness - it's the lute stop.

[minasgekos]

@TheJackHarkness lol I think this sound comes from the mechanism of the pedal.

[canadianRadio]

This is very beautiful. Thumbs up for You-tube suggesting this to me. For being a vinyl rip, it has incredible audio quality.

[brtherjohn]

@canadianRadio I believe some of Biggs' pedal harpsichord recordings are now available on CD, and I trust they probably sound smoother than this upload.

[mtr369]

Thanks for sharing this recording! I used to have it LP; I may still have a copy on tape.

I believe we can thank John Challis for building the instruments that are used.

In Bigg's interview in Harpsichord Magazine (concurrent with the recordings)

Biggs mentioned that he loves to practice Bach on the pedal harpsichord.

(Of course he even recorded Scott Joplin, but I really like the Bach!)

Now if only someone would record it on a pedal clavichord....

[brtherjohn]

@mtr369

Is there such a thing as the pedal clavichord? That would be interesting to hear!

[mtr369]

Guess what? Right after I listened to your Biggs recording, I found Trinitrotolaissance you-tube channel which has a number of pedal clavichord recordings!!

(I just searched you-tube for "pedal clavichord".)

[brtherjohn]

@mtr369 Fantastic. I'll check it out!

[fagottist]

@brtherjohn aye there is, organists used ot use them to practice

[vajramonkey]

I agree completely. Listening to this is like taking cotton out of my ears.

[MegaThucydides]

it's so much clearer on the pedal harpsichord

[brtherjohn]

@MegaThucydides I've always enjoyed Biggs' own organ recording of the work, but now I can only listen to this version. Slightly faster and clearer. Going back to the organ it sounds relatively smudgy by comparison.

[MegaThucydides]

@brtherjohn agree. imo Helmut Walcha is the clearest organist

[vajramonkey]

@brtherjohn I agree completely. Listening to this is like taking cotton out of my ears.

[vajramonkey]

@brtherjohn I agree completely. Listening to this is like taking cotton out of my ears.

[JupiterIV]

@MegaThucydides Compare the pedal-harpsichord edition to the one on the new Doppio Borgato (piano with organ-style pedalboard) also available on YouTube.

[kasyapa]

one of the greats. it deserves to be better known.

[chriswales19]

Oh my goodness. Thanks ever so for sharing this!

[brtherjohn]

@chriswales19  Again, this is quite wonderful to hear this on the pedal harpsichord. Someone else has already posted the famous Toccata and Fugue from this same album. Seek that out as well.

Cheers!

[YuriShedyenko]

I got this LP when I was in high school in the 60's and absolutely loved it. This and Absolutely Free by the Mothers of Invention were my favorite albums, and I could still listen to both endlessly.

[phillipstosberg]

Absolutely sublime music! I have this LP and it has always been one of my favorites!

[brtherjohn]

@phillipstosberg I must say that I really prefer some of these pieces on the pedal harpsichord to the organ!