Starcraft 2 - Maphack or Paranoia? You decide.

[Preevailer]

how are you not a betting man? aren't you a professional poker player?

[TheZoonib]

He was map hacking. A zerg always wants to be one base up on Terran. He didn't scout your second and double expanded. No good zerg would do that on Terran without knowing he was safe. He moved exactly to where your attack was coming. He moved to where your orbital was moving twice. No one is that lucky.

[Bobbles8714]

Everything else was kinda... meh in terms of proof. For one thing, it's not uncommon for lower level zerg players to get roaches to defend and go straight into mutas. That I understand.

However, as you noticed, that muta move from attack to defense was the biggest give away. There was no way he knew you even had a starport (of course, he can assume at that timing), but the straight bee line motion and lack of OL scouts is pretty much sure thing that he's maphacking.

[Globulerougeetblanc]

Maphack is the only way to scout for zerg :)

[hitmanjake]

BTW it can be hard to detect a good Terran map hacker....

A good Terran map hacker will check out your base/units with cam lock enabled, if he sees things interesting, he'll drop a scan, then start building hard counter units, just so you won't get suspicious in the replay.

[hitmanjake]

Map Hacker~~ So obvious~~

Did you know that latest maphacks come with cam lock function?

Before you take a peek at your enemy's base, leave your camera on your own base, enable camera lock, then go examine the enemy's base/units, disable camera lock when you are done....

Go through the replay again, look for moments in the game where his camera focuses in an area for 10~20 game seconds without doing anything, 100% he's checking out your base...

[hobowithagrenade]

Lol he was obv hacking. And you still dominated him!! Nice bro

[Lbolting005]

I just watch the First game, & u were just unloading ur laundry--it differently wasn't map hack, I've seen maphack, & this wasn't even close.

[U238Shells]

hes hacking its the new hack that shows where ur units are going

[JadeSune]

I'm paranoid

[ADRockstroh]

The thumbs up tip of the day, I've got an extra tip for it. If you look at the nexus they've got these 4 duck beak shaped thingys sticking out of the sides of it. If you look closely, they've got these kind of lines on the edge of them, kinda like if someone stabbed them with a knife. (It's hard to see on this replay) If you place the center of the nuke there, it's almost impossible to see it on certain maps, and very hard to spot in on other maps.

[AzNightmare]

Maphacker for sure. He's just one of those "clever" ones that knows not to pan his view in places he's not supposed to be looking at without vision.

After he saw that mass of units (Ravens) flying down the left side, he sent all his Mutalisks cause he didn't care if it's suspicious or not anymore. He would lose the game if he had done nothing. And apparently, he lost anyway.

[Gregorgovitch]

Hey ketroc u think this could be a new maphack where it let's u watch it from an observers point of view. This means he could bring up the production tab, and look the minimap to know everything.

[Yarahaha]

I think this is what 'smarter' maphackers will begin doing. Using a maphack to not check what you are building (since that is how they are most likely to get caught) but just to use it to see when their opponent expands or when and where they send their troops. He can deny anything since his camera never moves where it is not supposed to go and he doesn't end up building a force to counter a force he shouldn't know you have. But he gets an a great advantage knowing where your forces are at.

[TheOJDrinker]

Looks like he was aiming them for where the CC was, supported by his camera angle... was changing the angle he was going in. I don't see a problem with sending them to the back of base (I do that with mutas for some reason, hey they can fly fast) but the timing was suspicious. I would bet no, but it's possible (if he saw them on the minimap he didn't look at the attackers so he didn't know the mutas were screwed because the attackers were ravens)

[Ketroc21]

@TheOJDrinker A lot of zergs I face will mass up mutas in response to scouting my ravens. Raven knowledge is low with zerg players :). All 3 raven abilities work very well vs mutas.

[U238Shells]

@Ketroc21 heres the proof that hes hacking

img585.imageshack.us/img585/33­82/94573068.png

[negimawatcher]

Muta at the end is what gave him away. I some times scout cross spawn first if i have a specific build i want to do for cross spawn so i scout there first. Not scouting after that was odd but he could of just been going a blind mass muta, going blind builds is odd but some player do it. When he sent the mutas after your ravens though that told me he was a hacker. He was most likely looking at just the minimap as to not give away he is a map hacker and did not know what you where sending his way.

[bookjunkie500]

I would definitely call that a maphack. Just getting unit movement and knowing when and where your opponents are expanding would be a huge advantage and he wouldn't need to make it obvious. I think you should notify Blizzard.

[EvilArcherDude]

I've found a better distraction than the empty Medivac, you drop a cloaked ghost somewhere, let it shoot a building or unit once or twice then hit hold fire. That way your opponent gets the "Your units are under attack" message, surely making them freak out!

[hawkeye019]

What level was he on ladder Ket?

[Ketroc21]

@hawkeye019 It was a public custom game vs a player who was platinum on 1v1 ladder.

[mongbatstar]

This video works as a hangover cure. True story.

[TeQuiiLaSHoTZz]

I guess a smart map hacker would play it like this but that last move with the muta was the key. Why else would you do that! He didnt really need to look at the Raven

[BFGfreak]

Maybe he's psychic and was using clairvoyance to predict where you were going, but couldn't predict what unit counters mass ravens.

In all seriousness, if it is a maphack maybe he just had something like a sensor tower like hack which doesn't show which units are what; that would make your opponent resist the urge to look at your units as he wouldn't gain any additional information. But I would say it's suspicious for a non bronze league player not to scout, and those clicks seem fishy as well.

[max19731978]

btw, dont forget to watch the new when cheese fail episode staring ketroc himself

[drpeppergod]

@Ketroc21 You have now been on lagtv twice!

[dorsalphin]

Add me to the maphack group. I was giving the guy the benefit of the doubt until he pulled all those mutas at the end to meet your incoming raven attack. There's just no way to explain that except for maphack.

Keep up the great replays Ketroc. I love the vids.

[max19731978]

i wanted to DL the replay, but couldnt find the way to use the adress which i cant even retype ... i need a tuturial plz!!

[Ketroc21]

@max19731978 Sorry, I run my ftp server from my desktop, so it's not always up (it's up usually 80% of the time). It's up now... and if it's ever down, just try back the next day.

[max19731978]

@Ketroc21 okay, got the file now, what now... do i need to add a some file extension? SC2 doesnt seem to see it, i open my replay folder by clicking "show in folder- minimize SC and open the folder" thingy, i cut paste your file there and when i switch back to SC2, there's nothing in the folder. i even close SC2 and open again for a kinda refresh but nothing more.

[Ketroc21]

@max19731978 Put it in your replay folder (in winXP it's like mydocuments\starcraft 2\ etc etc). Or with sc2 closed, double-clicking the replay file should launch sc2 straight into the replay.

[max19731978]

@Ketroc21 i found another suspicscious behavior: when you are producing your very 1st viking, he pulls back 3 overlords watching the cliff north-west of his main, backing them behind the mineral line. thats around 9min mark. oh btw, i had to add the extension .SC2replay on your file. dunno how i managed to DL without extension, but thats it.

[SenzafineEterno]

I'm a zerg player, I don't like when we lose, but this time I was proud and happy for you. Props and congrats! I vote he was hacking.

[chrstilen5]

It's Hacks!

[CashCreep]

Did he scout you at all before he mass mutad?

[Shadec1]

@CashCreep only his scouting drone...

[Ketroc21]

@CashCreep Only the drone scout at the start. At the end of the game, his view still only sees a eng bay and rax in my base.

[philycheesesteak2010]

the medivac idea is really good, you just need to use it against a better, more aware player

[philycheesesteak2010]

lol, "welcome to my humble abode, would you like a drink of seeker missile" nice

[midgetman433]

the protoss nuke is epic idea... im pretty sure almost no toss will notice...

[midgetman433]

either he has map hacks or the best intuition on the planet!! my guess map hacks...

[wharfreek]

or maybe a new hack where replay functions are working in-game... like production tab hack.

[wharfreek]

map hack... and maybe a maphacker with balls i might say. he probably knows that camera view thing you explain earlier and try not to do it to avoid getting caught in an obvious way.

[ebag111s]

furshure maphack

[VpowerSP]

Ketroc, the nightmare of every maphackers.

[TORMENTUH2]

Yeah that is really suspicious, in my opinion he had mack haps.

[brco2003]

WOW epic HSM!

[BHP2412]

maphack most of the players wont get this amount of mutas and they will get lings and will be agressive with them i think he made mass mutas as a reaction to your mass ravens and the heeemmmmmmm he qwrote in the end was the surpris that mutas arent good against ravens

[krich1441]

@BHP2412 He never saw the ravens... he never saw the star ports he would have had no idea

[CashCreep]

@BHP2412

He never saw any of his ravens

[insight1337]

The Muta going to intercept Ravens almost guarantees the map hack. Any normal player would continue harassing.

[sraaju]

All cheaters should be served underseeker missles in the face.

[DefconBravo]

The ballsy thing, not really suspicious. His reaction to finding the command center, not supicious either, ive seen reactions like that in platinum. Lack of scouting and map control from a diamond player is a tad suspicious(and that he counters ok against raven). Catching your ravens, could be lucky coincidence. But not killing your command center and then straight intercepting your ravens? Thats really really suspicious.

[rwest1833]

...he figured his mutas could take anything you would have brought, as long as he saw it coming, (in his case "something" coming)

[rwest1833]

I think what gives this potential maphack away was his reaction to the loss. what the heck is "hummmmmm....." Sounds like something maybe one says when they can't believe they lost while cheating. People know everyone watches their replays so he didn't want to give his fog of war looks away. Disiplined maphackers must exits! He figured his mutas could get where ever they needed to be without actually looking at what was coming. I mean,who would have thought your ravens would have wiped 30+ mutas

[ToxinMortalis]

You make a convincing case. People have been sent to jail on less evidence.

[bubba18sar]

First off.. maphack.. What zerg makes a flock of 160 mutas and doesn't harass with them? Why wouldn't he harass? Maybe because he knows your bases is fortified against air like fort knox? Also he wants to save his mutas for the ravens that will be incoming.. except for the fact he never scouted.. Speaking of scouting? Find it a little strange that he went straight across map with his drone? Without checking close positions first? My question is.. how does he see what you have without panning?

[xFord6955x]

where you live streaming this? 

[Ketroc21]

@xFord6955x I don't live stream... just youtube for now.

[FrostyAbyss1]

Its suspicious, but for it, it's something you didn't mention.  When he said "ballsy" he through his third down, which is a response to seeing a terran expo. And btw getting good at cheating replays with maphack is crazy sad. Great seeker!!

[bubba18sar]

@FrostyAbyss1 He didn't throw down a third.. It didn't show the third until he jumped ahead in the game.

[omryy]

I agree with that that it's probably a map hack.

you know, the first look at your base in the fog of war is probably enough to prove it.

there is no reason to do that, period.

the other good indication is when he moved his mutas back to greet your ravens.

however - he never looked at the ravens while they moved, which is strange.

maybe his map hack is like a map wide sensor tower. only give unit (and structures) positions but not actually revealing in the fog of war.

[Ketroc21]

@omryy He never looked at my base or army in the fog (I was just giving an example of how to typically catch a maphacker). This is why I'm not 100% sure he maphacked.

[omryy]

@Ketroc21 gotcha,

I was under the impression he peaked at your base at the start.

[Eiights]

Maby he was just uhhh drunk?

[AgrivatedStickman]

ouch man

[FlyinSideways]

first