2011 Subaru Symmetrical AWD vs. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, and Ford

[ReflexCap]

Do this with an X-Drive ... yea i thought so you dont have the guts . Oh..Snap ..

[williamnagi]

lets conclude at this fact.. ALL OF EM ARE either 4wd/awd... can we plz shut up and move on in life. btw the RAV4/ CRV/rougue/ escape is a part time 4wd (coming form a guy in the transport trades. -- and im not sure.. but im pretty confident.. that the RAV4 & santa fe ( i think) are the only vehicles that have LOCK SWITCH -- where it infact LOCKS THE DIFFS. -- ive went up boundry road (vancouver) on 10"snow.. beside me was forester.. coincidence? -- with 4lock -- i made it.. subaru didnt. :D

[SoDaSub]

@williamnagi doubt it.

[williamnagi]

@SoDaSub are u sure......??????? were u there when that happened... dont really tihnk so.. unless u stalk me :S

[iKnoRiiTe]

i wish you guys would post another vid

[acefadi6969]

why no acura?

[Terrathrax]

Is it generally accepted that a 4WD system would ace this test?

[MrScoobieman]

Love my Sti :)

[glarbe]

This is a absolutely bull shit, just Subaru advertisement, because you see the rear wheel not spining at the camerman site, but the rear wheel spins on the other site, the reason is no LSD diferential, just standart diferential and this ir a normaly happends if one of wheels have not enaught resistance or contact with surface, because is on rollers!

[SoDaSub]

@glarbe duh. All of the cars have an open rear differential with no LSD. The point is if the vehicles is able to first, transfer enough power to the rear and 2nd, use its traction and stability control to slow the free spinning wheel and force power to the wheel that does have traction. Subaru can do just that. The others can't.

[JVGH30]

$100 rear differential weld should fix those in a jiff.

:~)

[ctabseller]

I tow pick up with my 1996 legacy wagon.....try to do that with your focus

[ctabseller]

subaru have the best awd system...thats it's

[djleonardo666]

The Honda CR-V was a petrol, which we all know has less Nm/Tourqe than the Diesel. Therefore, I say want to see a test where they are trying out the Diesel, and then see if they vehicle climbs. I do not say that it will, but I would have given it a chance :)

[TheSergys1]

Acura can do the same

[SoDaSub]

@TheSergys1 No SH-AWD Acura will do what the $34K WRX STI will do, and it's not even depicted here because this is a comparison of Subaru's competition.

[acefadi6969]

@TheSergys1 ya i wonder why they didnt bring acura..?

[TheSergys1]

what about acura SH-AWD ?.

[SoDaSub]

@TheSergys1 It's not $20K like the rest of these vehicles.

[a183r70]

i dont think it is an independent test, i got a Honda and the stability is awesome in every weather, I have proof that a lot of times while traveling slipery, weather changing roads, and the 4x4 realtime i think its exellent, in Ecuadorian roads you never now when you will have to use it but my Honda has never got stuck!

[Joshman73]

I got the 2011 Turbo Diesel in Jan. It is an AWESOME car. On the Freeway it gets down to 5.2 L / 100k. Have driven it across creeks up badly rutted muddy mountain roads in a convoy of ALL types of 4X4s in Nth Queensland without issue,maybe the approach and departure angles and I had to fit a aluminum bash plate under the sump,up the longest sand island in the world & didn't get stuck once. Its Great in the Sand, super fun driving it on the beach AND I commute to work in it everyday SUBARU ROCKS

[CJDUBstang]

So how come the "United States Auto Club" certified this test? They aren't even a testing body...lol Its a race sanctioning body that has zero to do with AWD. Was the methodology validated? Thought not,

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang They are a an independent 3rd party. Race sanctioning exists to maintain parity within the participants. They are there to make sure everything is fair. The point is that Subaru has better AWD than the other vehicles depicted.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I know what race sactioning is. How can they certify somehting if they don't have the credentials to do AWD testing. Independant? Yeah, I don't think so. Sounds like they got a fat check to put their logo there. Nothing else. 

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang who has credentials to do AWD testing? I'm sure they receive far more dollars from the manufacturers that didn't fare as well in this test than received from Subaru. Especially since Subaru doesn't participate in any of their sporting events.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub what in the fuck does that mean? why would the USAC party get money from car makes? your logic makes zero sense. A test is not a test unless its done by someone accreditied to do so. PERIOD. This ensures its done RIGHT as well as fairly. The USAC doesn't know anyhting about that. This "neutral 3rd part" thing means jack shit.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Watch your language or be banned. The USAC sanctions all manner of automotive events. They are a neutral 3rd party there to make sure the results are accurate and not biased. Who would you have liked to seen conduct the test? The results are real. How long do you think it would take one of these manufacturers to post a rebuttal video or sue if this was fake?

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub lol nice threat. I want to see the test protocol.

[CJDUBstang]

Look at this guy saying the Subaru gets 36mpg...lol in what planet? The highest you can expect is 27hwy. How about the all new powerful motor? It runs on PREMIUM ONLY and gets a terrible 19 mpg city...LOL. If you knew anything about marketing small SUV's you'd know the main selling point is economics, and the Subaru fails badly.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The new Impreza is rated 27 mpg city and 36 mpg highway. The Forester XT is not using Subaru's new FB series engine and is also mated to a 4speed automatic, yet it is still one of the fastest vehicles in the segment. The Forester is the most researched vehicle on Consumer Reports and the most awarded small SUV of all time.

[CJDUBstang]

lol oh so hostile to Ford, just like all the other videos. what a pile of shite. The Toyota also has this evil "torque steer". Just watch the vid. Why do they go after ford the hardest? Hmm... because ford is the hardest to beat the top dog in the small SUV market, the top seller for 10 years...lol Nice try though.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang You are reading into things too much. This video goes after the competition. It's showing that all of the other vehicles have inferior AWD. Ford has one of the WORST entries in the small SUV segment. It sells, but it is consistently ranked near the bottom in every single test.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Cars.com small suv review. Escape placed 8 out of 9.

"It might be a nice choice for a family," Woodyard wrote, "that wants to relive the 1990s."

Thomas found the Ford's driving experience less than thrilling. "If ever there was a loser in the handling department, the Escape was it," he wrote.

People buy brands they are used to. Maybe when it's redesigned it will be competitive.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Dude, I stopped reading car reviews about 20 years ago. Every single one is bought and paid for by someone. This one is bought and paid for and the resutls supervised by Subaru.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang So you're saying that the other vehicles depicted have a comparable or better AWD system to Subaru? Or that something depicted here isn't truthful?

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub I'm saying there are a dozen half truths. Only a clown would get on a slippery slope and jam the gas. That's why the Ford "surges" as buddy incorrectly says...lol Its killing the power so you don't kill yourself. Turn of the traction control, and that truck moves up no problem. Way to sell the idea though of it being a "dangerous" vehicle. Tons of guys use these for rock climbing no problem. Your test doesn't prove squat about Ford AWD capability.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang You are not going to get up a slippery hill without throttle. search for the video "Subaru Ice Climb" So you're saying the Escape has to cut power so you don't kill yourself, but the Subaru is able to figure it out so you can actually go where you want? Turn off the traction control and of course it won't move. There are no LSD's front or rear. The Escape has an inferior AWD. That really isn't even debatable.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub That really isn't debatable? Cause there's a 3 min clip on some rollers. ok. If you didn't want debate then why post the video, sockpuppet? Lol no debate indeed, you sound like a damn schill. Have the traction control setting switched off & it will do the same as the Subaru. Its a safety feature. The Subaru must have the VDC turned off, which the video conveniently doesn't mention. I saw many subies on ice. Why oh why is it cuttitng power i wonder? HAHAHAHAH

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Not because there's a 3 minute clip. It's because the Escape is a FWD vehicle that uses the ABS sensors to alert the vehicle that the wheels are slipping and then transfers power. Subarus can react to wheel slippage, but they ALL have ALL of the wheels driven ALL of the time. Even the 80/20 split system constantly varies power before slippage occurs.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Of course the Escape won't climb on one wheel with the TCS turned off. It has open rear diffs. The power would go to the side of least resistance (the slipping side). And of course the Forester had traction control turned on for the very same reason. It has an open rear diff as well. If you're going to argue a point, at least know what you're talking about.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub lol WHEN its Competitive? Really? It already is. I heard the whole of Subaru sold in the US as many cars as Ford sells just Escapes EVERY YEAR. This was some sort of record for Subaru. Its cute that you think the segment leader isn't "competitive". I guess "competitive" to you means good AWD system and handling. But what it really means is huge SALES via offering the following: useful, loaded with options, fun to drive, cost effective.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Ford is a much bigger company. Of course they sell more cars. Ford was selling even more cars just a few years ago and was on the brink of bankruptcy. Mulally leveraged the company to the hilt to keep it from happening and it looks like it has paid off. The Escape isn't the segment leader. It's just cheap. Reliabilty? poor. Resale Value? Poor. Fun to drive? No... but cash on the hood to move units? it's got that in spades. Selling a lot of cars does not mean profit or success.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Selling a ton of cars does not mean profit or success? HA. The Escape is the TOP SELLING SUV IN THE PLANET. It IS the segment leader. Not reliable? Prove it. It outsells Forrester 30 or 40:1. How much is Subaru paying you to spout this nonsense? No sorry, you must be paid by a certifed 3rd party...The Forester is a success for Subaru but it has zero market penetration. Not exactly a succes for everybody else's perspective. Its, useless niche gimmick XUV that can't haul squat.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The last generation Ford Focus sold at a loss of $500 a car. Porsche is far more profitable than Ford and it sells a fraction of the cars. Subaru was more profitable than Ford for most of the past decade since Subaru was making money and Ford was losing it. Whether you are big or small, if you're losing money, you're not profitable. The CR-V outsells the escape globally. If not for the Tsunami, it'd be outselling it this year in the US. The Escape is barely ahead.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub HAHAH....What does a speciality car low volume manufacturer have to do with a huge company in terms of profitability? I'd love to see those CR-v numbers. It is nowhere close to the Ford Escape in US sales, not "barely", like not even close. And globally you have nothing to back up these claims. Don't forget the Escape sells all over Asia and SA too. And here's a tip dude. The reason subaru is more profitable per unit is most of the parts are all built in the 3rd world and value of yen.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Ever heard of too big to fail? You are once again delusional. Top 10 Selling vehicles of 2010? CR-V is number 9. Escape was 13th. 2009? CR-V is number 8. Escape came in 11th place. 2007... CR-V was number 10. Escape? not in the top 20. Get the picture? This year the Escape has sold 206,896 units. The CR-V has sold 180,361. And that is all Tsunami related. Don't forget the CR-V sells globally as well and outsells the Escape.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Where did you get thes fake numbers from? The Escape is the top selling SUV in 2011. FACT. How'd it jump from 11th to first, with no model change?...lol sound like your numbers are fake. Check goodcarbadcar idiot.

[Loscaldazar]

@CJDUBstang

He is talking about world wide sales... not just America.. contrary to your logic there are other countries besides America! And for room (taking it from polk's comparing tool) headroom is equal, the forester has more legroom (front and rear), identical Shoulder room, and most importantly the forester has more cargo room for both trunk and folded down seats and passenger volume! The question is where do you get your ideas?

[CJDUBstang]

@Loscaldazar The numbers he is quoting are USDM numbers. What do i care about care sales elswehere anyway. Oh and don't speak unless you're spoken to.

[Loscaldazar]

@CJDUBstang

As for fuel economy SoDaSub was saying that the non turbo engine gets 1 MPG more. The non turbo uses regular gas! I would ask you would be more respectful if you are going to argue, otherwise no one will listen to you! It's a simple courtesy that someone of your age (or what you have listed) should be manageable.

[CJDUBstang]

@Loscaldazar The non-turbo gets the same mileage as the base Escape! Both are 170hp! Escape is heavier, yet still gets same mileage. Jesus, are you stupid? I was commenting on the fact the turbo is IN REALITY more expensive to run the the Escape and has less hp.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang OMG use google. The CR-V handily outsells the Escape year in and year out. The ONLY reason the Escape is ahead this year is because Honda's couldn't make enough CR-V's to sell after the tsunami. it was 11th place for ALL vehicles. Not Suv's. look at a top 20 list for vehicles sold. You really look bad when you say something and all someone has to do is google it to see you're wrong. Once again, stop the name calling or get banned.

[SoDaSub]

Do you have Subaru confused with Ford? Subaru doesn't source parts from 3rd world countries or build cars in Mexico like Ford does. You are not up on recent economics either. The value of the dollar has plummeted in the last 10 years and the value of the yen has gone up. Subaru wasn't more profitable on a per unit basis... it was just profitable when Ford was losing money hand over fist. One was making money, one was losing money. Simple as that.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Ummmm. Right. Subaru makes their parts in Thailand and the Phillipines and other places. Most, but not all, ford parts and made using union labour, so its difficult to keep competitive with a companies that pays basically slave wages.

As for the yen going up....HAHAHAH..Its been going down compared to the USD for awhile dumbass.

[Loscaldazar]

@CJDUBstang The Subaru has full time AWD.It also accelerates faster with less HP. And you can tune or modify the turbo to put out gobs of power! I haven't seen a single Ford escape being raced around a track, or for that matter a single performance modified Escape! See plenty of Foresters that do that!Fact is the Forester is the most awarded small SUV-ever!

[Loscaldazar]

@CJDUBstang I haven't seen a single review that says the escape is good or even ranked towards the top of it's class. The escape really is a terrible vehicle.Don't get me wrong about Ford though, I would love a Raptor. Not only that but between my family and I we have quite a few fords (E-450, F-150, Mustang GT, Mustang V6, Aerostar, Windstar, Expedition). We had a great experience with ford but we aren't looking back and now have 2 Forester('03, '11), 1 impreza ('97) and a 3.6R legacy ('11).

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The VAST majority of Subaru parts are sourced in Japan and in the United States. And Subarus are made in those two (1st world) countries. Ford makes cars in Google yen to dollar. The Yen has been going up vs the dollar for a decade. It hit a record level just after the earthquake, but has dropped some since then. It's still higher than it was last year or any subsequent years. Ford has PLANTS in Thailand, Mexica, Malaysia, and the Phillipines, Argue objectively or be banned.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The Forester also ranks 6th in sales out of 30 vehicles in the segment. It's roomier, quieter, handles better, has better resale value, has better quality, is more fun to drive. safer, more comfortable, has more ground clearance, has more towing capacity (2,400 gas & 4,400 diesel), has a better AWD system and has better fuel economy. There really is no contest between the quality of the two products. GM became the largest auto manufacturer in the world and went bankrupt.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Sales: proof. Roomier: TOTALLY false. The Forester is WAY smaller in every dimension cept headrm its 1" bigger. Cargo sp tiny bit bigger on subaru. Better quality: subj; more comfortable, subj.; inferior approach angles; Safer: PROOF? Better AWD system: ON WHAT PARAMETERS? Econ: The 170hp model has SAME as the 170hp AWD escape. The 224hp turbo needs 91 octane so is more expensive/mi than the 240hp escape. Escape hybrid better than all. V6 escape 3500lbs towing. No diesel in US bud.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The Forester has more head room (front and rear). More Legroom (front and rear). More total passenger volume and more total cargo volume. It's a roomier vehicle. Forester = Top Safety Pick. Escape is not. Forester is 1 mpg better in highway and city than the AWD Escape and the Forester is full time AWD. The XT needs 91 octane but it's also way sportier and faster than the V6 Escape. You are delusional if you think the Escape is a better vehicle.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub 1mpg better on PREMIUM you idiot. That costs more mooooney. The non-91 models get the same as the escape. FACT. The rest of what you said is BS. Are you dense, or a 100% schill for subaru. Answer now. i got shit to do.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang The base 4 cylinder uses regular gas. It looks like the Escape improved from 20/26 in 2011 to 20/27 for 2012. The Forester is 21/27. The Forester still has better fuel economy AND it's full time AWD where as the Ford is FWD until wheel slippage. So you're saying the Forester isn't roomier depsite the numbers? It's not a Top Safety pick besides the designation? It doesn't have a better AWD system, despite the mechanics? And the Forester XT isn't a sportier vehicle than the V6 Escape?

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub

Ford 4-cyl AWD-20/27 -(23 combined)170hp

Ford Hybrid AWD-30/27 (29 combined)-170hp

Ford V6 AWD 18/23-cost per 25 mile: $4.26 -240hp (20 combined)

Subaru base 4-cyl 21/27 -(23 combined)170hp

Subaru turbo 4cyl 19/24 PREMIUM cost per 25 mile: $4.39  (21 combined)- 1 mpg is nullified by price. also : 224 hp hahahah. The Hybrid escape rocks them all. $2.94 per 25 miles.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang For the Forester XT, it's rated 19/24 (21 avg) and the Escape V6 AWD is 18/23 (20 avg). Based on today's avg price of gasoline, it costs $4.68 more to fill up on premium vs regular in the Forester. Using a 16.9 gal tank, that'd be 355 mile avg range for the Forester and 338 miles for the Escape. That's a 17 mile difference and 85% of the Escapes average MPG or $2.90. Considering the same tank size of 16.9 gal, the Forester costs $1.78 more to go the same distance of one tank.

[SoDaSub]

@SoDaSub Considering 15,000 miles a year, it'd cost $75 more dollars a year to drive a Forester XT over a Escape AWD V6. For a full time AWD better vehicle vs a primarily FWD system archaic vehicle, it's a very small price penalty.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Whatever your corporate masters say. Stupid subaru with its archaic 4-speed and 4-cyl engine..Should I go on? 4 cyl ecoboost makes 240hp on 87 octane...so Subaru's best wagon is way behind and has been for awhile. Impreza chassis, unchanged in 20 years! The subaru may have supposedly "better" full time AWD, but has zero tow capability. It also doesn't have a hybrid option so lol. These last two options are much more important than slight better AWD. Also everybody knows Subaru is junk.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang If you've not noticed, almost every vehicle now has the new FB series 4 cylinder engine instead of the EJ. Almost all 4 cylinders have moved to the CVT instead of the 4 speed auto. This is a test of AWD and Subaru is superior.You are COMPLETELY wrong on the Impreza chassis. It has changed with every redesign. Subaru vehicles have some of the best tow ratings for cars and crossovers. Subaru currently doesn't have a hybrid option, but Ford's hybrids are poor sellers anyway.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Why would you call Subaru junk? Subaru has better residual values, better resale value, better safety ratings (All Subaru's are Top Safety Picks), Better AWD, better handling for mainstream vehicles, and better reliability. A direct quote from Consumer Reports... "Honda and Subaru still make the best vehicles overall… Honda, Subaru, and Toyota are the top three automakers for the third year in a row.”

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Get lost you damn sock puppet. I've had enough of you.

[squirell236]

@CJDUBstang Your not to bright are you?? The Impreza, Outback and legacy all have the availability of CVT, Manual 5spd in the 4 cyl. or a 5spd Auto in the 6Cyl. The new Impreza is THE WORLDS Most fuel Efficient AWD car in America now. Put that in your pipe and smoke it moron. Highest safety ratings for all vehicles in line up, not just some models, Highest residual value of any manufacturer, and 92% of EVERY Subaru sold in the past ten years are still on the road. All documented and FACT!

[CJDUBstang]

@squirell236 r we talking about the impreza? Nope. So shut the fuck up, and next time don't speak until spoken to.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang banned. Thanks for keeping it objective.

[squirell236]

@SoDaSub  LOL! now that's just good timing, the guy is a complete idiot with no automotive clue and most likely drives around in his 99 Hyundai elantra with a 100 stickers and a K&N air filter badge on his hood...

[squirell236]

@CJDUBstang LOL at CJDUB, little boy needs a nap I think, he's upset that his wanna be stang that his Daddy lets him drive gets spanked daily by a Subaru with a 16 yr old behind the wheel.. You've been spoken to and you are about as knowledgeable about cars as Ford is at putting the right tires on a Ford Exploder in the late 90's Huge Fail!! Moron.. Now go to sleep little boy and let mommy tuck you in..

[squirell236]

@CJDUBstang And my 2.5 boxer WRX Turbo puts down 252 on 87 and 265 on 93. The STI puts down 305 h.p on 93oct and 288 on 87oct.. So now what with your Little ecoboost?? Bring your Escape to the rally cross and I'll show you what a REAL AWD can do to your over weight UNDERPOWERED torque steering off balanced FORD. When the snow hits and your stuck, be sure to flag down a Imprzea sedan to pull your Escape outta the ditch. Get some facts and a clue before you try to talk about CARS. IDIOT!

[CJDUBstang]

@squirell236 lol only 305 hp? "So now what with your Little ecoboost??" You stupid little girl. Its only a 2.0L. The 2.0L is 250hp/340TQ on 87 octane. The 3.5L ecoboost is 365hp/420TQ. It absolutely destroys any motor subaru makes. They both are superior designs to subaru's used up boxer that hasn't changed in about 100 years.

[squirell236]

@CJDUBstang Your power ratings are worthless, just like the Ford. Does that 250hp 2.0l get from 0-60 in 4.7 secs?? Not even close. And the Boxter engine doesn't need to change moron, it is a self balancing engine that has the least amount of vibration and tourque issues of ANY 4 cylinder and thus requires much less maint. and has minimal intetnal issues under 300K documented. Again, you have no real facts here, nor do you have anything to back up your worthless power ratings.

[therockof2004]

@CJDUBstang so what your saying is porsche motor are shit to caus its the same thing and last time i check porsch is better than and ford iv seen all ford dose great is the f150

[squirell236]

@squirell236 When you can bring any of your So called AWD suv's or cars to a rally or autocross and keep up, then I'll give Ford a sec of my time, but that won't ever happen, cause they can't build a car or suv fast enough and DURABLE enough to compete in a rally or autocross event. And that ECOboost will be gone in 10 yrs just like that 4.6l that ford puts in everything that has failed HORRIBLY! I'm sure Ford and their service dept's appreciate your repeat and frequent business.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub THE SUBARU IS NOT A ROOMIER VEHICLE! Where do you get these ideas? Its smaller in nearly every interiro dimension!!

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Larger Cargo Volume? Forester. Front Headroom? Forester. Rear Headroom? Forester. Front Legroom? Forester. Rear Legroom? Forester. Rear Hip room? Forester. Total Passenger Volume? Forester. The only things the Escape is bigger in are front hiproom (.4") and Front/rear Shoulder room (.5" and .3"). The Forester is a roomier vehicle.

[Ahto42]

All Nissan 4x4 have open diffs in stock and ABLS system. The ABLS works when the VDS/VSA is off or on, does'nt mater. In real life videos the rogue/qashqai can move forward with one wheel traction.

[SoDaSub]

@Ahto42 I would love to see a real life video that depicts this. Please point me in the right direction.

[SparkDischarge]

This was the biggest joke of a test.

Rollers simulate a tire/wheel being airborne.

This 'test' is a demonstration of the viscous coupling on the rear of the Subaru, nothing more, nothing less.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge The rollers simulate wheels being in contact with a low traction surface like ice. The Forester does not have a viscous coupling in the rear. It has an open differential just like the rest of the vehicles.

[SparkDischarge]

@SoDaSub The coefficient of rolling friction is about 1/100 that of clean dry asphalt.

The coefficient of an ice covered surface is about 1/10 of asphalt.

So, unless there is a braking system, these rollers simulate a wheel being airborne (without having to worry about CAV joint angularity).

If there is no VCC on the rear differential, then Subaru has the best brake actuated traction control in the industry.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge Air does not have measurable friction, wheels being on steel rollers will obviously provide some friction, how else would the vehicles be able to squirm left and right? Subaru's traction and stability control IS one of the best in the industry. It is fully integrated into the AWD for the VTD and Active AWD systems. It monitors yaw, wheel speed, braking, throttle, and steering inputs and uses these parameters control wheel spin at the 4 corners of the vehicle.

[SparkDischarge]

@SparkDischarge The lesson from the OJ criminal trial was, if the suspect is guilty, don't frame him.

Toyota does not offer hardware traction control on the RAV4 'awd', only the front drive.

Honda & Nissan offer software traction control. Ford has drum rear brakes, they are not going to even try.

This was the 'candy lineup' of tests. That is why the camera was not on the spinning wheel side.

Subaru is the wagon in the bunch of CUVs, so there wasn't any need for bluster/pretense/obfuscation.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge How was Subaru a wagon in a bunch of CUV's? It has more ground clearance and a better total suite of AWD/TCS/and drivetrain layout than any of these vehicles. When the camera focuses in on the rear wheels, you can CLEARLY see both rear wheels... including the spinning one. These are all of the major vehicles cross shopped against the Forester.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Ummm baloney on the better drivetrain layout. Only the Ford and Toyota can tow worth a fig. Forrester tows nothing with its supposedly superior drivetrain.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang Forester tows 2,400 lbs with the 4 cylinder (Escape 1,500). Escape tows 3,400 lbs with the V6. The Forester tows 4,400 with the diesel.

[CJDUBstang]

@SoDaSub Who gives a crap about the diesel? Its not available in the car tested in the video.

The ford small SUVs avaliable w/diesel overseas tow more than 4400lbs.

[SoDaSub]

@CJDUBstang you offered up global stats for the escape. The Forester is a global car. The Escape doesn't come in a diesel and the max towing for the Kuga diesel (a much better vehicle than the Escape is 2,100 lbs).

[Ahto42]

Nissan has an ABLS system, Actice Brake Limited Slip. and all Nissan's 4x4 cars,SUV have it. Do you say that phatfiner and X-trail will fail the test also?

[SoDaSub]

@Ahto42 Once again, this is a test of AWD to AWD, not AWD to 4x4. 4x4's excel at offroading, but don't have the handling, ride, or fuel economy of crossovers.

[Ahto42]

If the rogue had LOCK mode on, i think it would make the test.

[SoDaSub]

@Ahto42 That wouldn't matter. The issue with the Rogue isn't front to back power transfer, the issue is left and right power transfer. Even if the Rogue was able to transfer 100% of its power to the rear, all of the power would be transferred to the slipping wheel because of the open differential.

[Dillon1791]

of course they wouldn't test Acuras SH-AWD MDX or RDX on this because it would beast them all! 

[funitsu]

The forester was capable because this new vehicle has traction control via brakes and cutting throttle. You turn that system off and it will not make it up the ramp. You do this with the older Subarus that don't have traction control and they will not make it up the ramp. I just wished Subaru had a push button locking centre diff, which can be made since they already have the DCCD system found on the STi.

[SoDaSub]

@funitsu You are somewhat correct. For the Forester to make it up, it must have VDC on. The older Subarus equipped with a limited slip differential will climb on one wheel with the rear wheels only. A locking center differential would not do anything for this as the vehicle will always send power to where it's needed fore and aft, VDC or not. The issue is power appropriation left and right, which requires a limited slip differential or an intelligent traction and stability control system.

[funitsu]

@SoDaSub The cars that had a VLSD somewhat works but only when new. They wear out over time and they just doesn't have enough strength anymore. I always tell guys to go straight to a clutch type LSD and skip the OEM VLSD. Correct a locking centre diff alone will not help in this situation. A good LSD (not VLSD) parred with a locking center diff does a WHOLE lot. I was doing the diagnal test on our '10 Forester and traction control won't turn off, but VDC will. I can hear the solenoid pulsing :)

[wtrdogg20]

I cant believe the Symetrical AWD is the only Marketing point Subaru is using now.

I mean, that system is great!, but... A car is not just that.

Subaru has too much to improve to be COMPETITIVE. Their boxer engines, great design and excellet low gravity center, but very inefficent too (new 2.0i engines for 2012 Impreza is just 148HP, even the Dodge 2.0 VVT generates more power). They have to also work on details, interior design and other things buyers like, things where other models are better.

[Loscaldazar]

@wtrdogg20

Subaru uses a lot more for marketing points.. lets see.. only manufacture with all it's vehicles top safety picks? And for every year top safety picks are chosen too? Class Leading safety? Only manufacturer to win Motor trends SUV of the year two times in a row? Highest resale value of any mainstream brand with 3 vehicles ranking #1 in their class? The Forester having the highest customer loyalty of any vehicle in it's class? The Legacy making Ward's 10 best engines?

[Loscaldazar]

@wtrdogg20 Reliability ranked only 3 points (on a scale of 1-100) below that of Toyota.Highest average road test score by consumer reports of 82/100 compared to VW with a rank of 76/100?The Forester being CR's highest Rated SUV.Fastest growing car company? 2nd best manufacturer in the world with a difference of 1 point (out of a 100) below #1?And the 2.0i impreza is not for speed, it's for fuel economy.Most Fuel efficient AWD car?You also mistake a bigger, better selling car company to be better

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 Subaru in the US talks mostly about being #1 in resale value, #1 in residual value, having all vehicles as top safety pics, winning SUV of the year awards, being the only manufacturer to have sales increases every year during the recession, hitting sales records 2 years in a row when the auto industry was on its death bed.

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 The new 2.0i engine is all about efficiency. The Impreza lost almost 200 lbs, so 170 hp is no longer needed. The engine provides better power delivery and makes the 148hp 2012 Impreza quicker than the 170hp 2011 Impreza. It also makes the Impreza the most fuel efficient AWD vehicle on the market.

[SparkDischarge]

@wtrdogg20 Subaru can only do so much with such a smaller than average bore, and the boxing engine concept. (and their design priorities were emissions & driveability. Peak torque is at 3200 rpm)

Plus they have a fixed length intake manifold. Hyundai's new 2.0 Nu engine, has an even smaller bore, but returns more power & torque. Hyundai/KIA were supposed to have integrated variable lift also, which really helps with peak power.

Subaru needs Toyota's D4-S port/direct injection system now.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge Stop using irrelevant information to make it look like you know what you're talking about. Subaru's FB engine is returning 36 mpg highway on a vehicle that's AWD and heavier than the competition because of AWD. a 2.0 CVT Nissan Sentra produces less power, is about the same weight, FWD, and returns less MPG.

[SparkDischarge]

@SoDaSub Engines return BSFC, automobiles return MPG.

The new Impreza returns decent mileage because of the tall gearing of the CVT-Lineartronic

'AWD' is pure marketing department. The CVT does not have a center differential, the 5 speed stick does. (where is the 6 speed at?)

The extra weight of longitudinal driveshaft, rear differential, rear axleshafts, and PTO components in the [auto] transmission weigh much less than 200 pounds.

The MR20 is a 'unique' engine, peak power is at only 5100 rpm.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge How on earth is AWD a pure marketing term? For Subaru, it means all the wheels are driven all of the time. The purely mechanical center differential of the 5 speed manual is a "dumb" technology. The clutch plates act and react quicker as they do not have to wait for the viscous fluid to heat up. On top of that, the ECU is able to have pre programmed torque split points as well as manage torque split based on data other than slippage.

[SoDaSub]

@SparkDischarge Knocking it because it's technically not a differential is stupid seeing as how its capability is far greater than that of viscous differential being that power appropriation can be monitored and controlled for more criteria than just wheel slippage.

FYI the AWD components for Subaru add between 170 and 230 lbs depending on model

[CJDUBstang]

@wtrdogg20 Their top dog engine gets so-so mileage and the so-so HP from premium juice 91. Their larger 3.6 H6 motors top out at 250, while most other companies make closer to 300-350hp with the same displacement and same economy. Motors have moved on and up...long, long ago.

[wtrdogg20]

Where is the Tiguan 4Motion and the Audi Q5 Quattro? Both will put the Subaru to be, just another one with good AWD.

Remember, Audi invented the AWD with the Quattro, and it is still the original!

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 Tiguan and Quattro are Haldex AWD and not true Quattro. It's not on par with SUbaru's AWD. Audi did NOT invent AWD. Quattro was introduced in 1980. Subaru's Symmetrical AWD was birthed in 1972. AWD was first applied to automotive in 1893

[wtrdogg20]

@SoDaSub Well, young boy...you are WRONG! Subaru introduced in 1972 a PART TIME 4WD vehicle, the Leone, however that was not able to be used as 4wd in dry pavement, but in the same year, Jeep introduced full time 4wd, the Cherokee. VW had been working on 4wd systems and Audi in 1980 created a production-type full time AWD, the Quattro, and few years later VW helped improving that system thanks to some military appliance they were using from before. Audi was the pioneer on modern car industry.

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 I never claimed Subaru invented AWD. The point was that you were wrong is saying that Audi invented AWD. They weren't even the first with full time AWD. Quattro debuted in 1980. Subaru's current system debuted in 1981. Subaru would be considered more of a pioneer in driving 4 wheels than Audi since they have been doing longer.

[wtrdogg20]

Europeans, especially the Germans, were using 4wd or AWD systems since long time ago.

Have you seen the VW Touarge, or a Porsche Cayenne in off road, with just one wheel with traction? They can send all the power to just one wheel, isnt that what a Subaru does?

I have nothing against Subaru, but what the AWD they use can do, it can be done by other AWD systems, especially Europeans, Looking for a comparable vehicle? Look at the Tiguan Track and Field. Rav4, C-RV and Rouge are pussies.

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 VW and Porsche know how to make great AWD systems, unfortunately VW brand product has given into using Haldex for everything except the Touareg. 4matic, 4motion, and xdrive are not on par with Subaru's top systems. The Tiguan Track and Field is not comparable. It is Haldex. It has a 3% greater approach angle than the Forester, Same departure angle, it uses TSC to control wheel spin on individual wheels (like every Subaru), and engine braking. At the end of the day, it's still Haldex

[wtrdogg20]

@SoDaSub it is still Haldex and capable. There many proofs of that. The Track and Field has a special configuration for off road, very capable, FYI.

Thats why VW offer the Tiguan in different models, if you did not know it.

Subaru is good, but the Tiguan T&F can do it too....

Have you ever heard about the VW Amarok? it uses latest 4Motion generation, and it is one of the best pick up trucks in market, mainly for its superb off road performance. (can seen power to just one wheel if needed).

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 You are giving your opinions which don't have any substance to them. The Track and Field is more marketing than anything. The Amarok is based off of the Touareg. It is very capable and is also not available in the US. You are trying to cling to singular models to prove a point. I'm not going to point out Subaru's WRX STI over and over or it's foreign models that include low range.

[wtrdogg20]

More Marketing than anything, yeah right, now tell me the Jeep Compass Trail Rated is just marketing too.

About the Amarok, it is not really based on the Touareg. If its sold in US or not? that's irrelevant, since the Rouge is not sold outside US, and I do know that model very well.

I just realized you are a Subaru Fanboy, maybe you own one, so you will think it is the best, no case.

Subaru has AWD and boxer engines, Very Good, but with so much to improve and low global sales, Why? Price? Nah!

[SoDaSub]

@wtrdogg20 The Amarok IS based on the Touareg, and the Rogue IS sold outside of the US as Qashqai. Subaru is a niche manufacturer. That being said, they've gone from being ranked 23 in the US to being ranked #10 in 3 years. That's a big jump.

[Vanrocco66]

Why no Jeep in this test???? I'm sure Jeep would have put them all to shame!

[SoDaSub]

@Vanrocco66 This is AWD and not 4WD. These vehicles would have put the Jeeps to shame in road dynamics. Let's keep it apples to apples.

[Vanrocco66]

@SoDaSub Although it's in a different class of vehicle, the Jeep Grand Cherokee is available in AWD and is THE BEST AWD vehicle on the market. In the compact to small size SUV, Subaru is rated the best however, a close second is the Audi A3.

[SoDaSub]

The Jeep Grand Cherrokee is only available with 4WD and is a 4x4. 4X4 can and should deliver better offroad capability than AWD vehicles, but will fall short with on road driving dynamics. That being said, there are other 4WD vehicles with arguably better offroad prowess than the Grand Cherokee. The A3 uses Haldex AWD and is inferior to many available AWD systems. The A4 is the least expensive Audi available with true Quattro.

[Tebanlol]

This is why I love my subaru.

[SoDaSub]

Be serious and stop trolling. All vehicles were on stock rubber.

[musicalgreasemonkey]

it seems like the traction control was on for all the vehicles, you can hear the engine speed changing in some of the cars as the traction control slows them down and speeds them up to "regain" traction. well done subaru for being the best!

[zainuintel]

Take traction controll on the cars. The Subarus Traction controll was off. It is Bias

[SoDaSub]

@zainuintel This is independently certified. The Forester's traction control was on. It has open diffs front and back so it wouldn't have climbed on one wheel without it.

[zainuintel]

@SoDaSub theres another problem, Winter tires on Forester, Summer tires on rest

[Loscaldazar]

Shows Subaru's superior AWD. :)