Wile we are talking scifi philo Dune, Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, tests Paul Atreides with the box of pain if he acts on impulse he is considered an animal and killed if not he is human and lives... basically.
To the moral discussion here: Moral is important, but in practice there are no such thing as "Right" or "Wrong" or "Good" or "Evil". There is only the act itself and power.
And religion does not make this world better in any way currently. It is only making it worse. If someone give me a very good reason why religion is improving this world I will convert to that religion the second I see the comment.
things in life. love, happiness, good will towards man. I dont blame bad things on the devil all the time. I blame choices that sometimes could have been better...you need to do more research, because youre obviously lost and dont know what youre talking about. douche bag----->the devil made me right that (lol)
I cannot believe your ignorance. just that fact that you did this video drunk makes you look like a total douche-bag. Furthermore, you looked awesome smoking that cigarette.lol idiot. You need to seriously ponder the definition of human. To tell me that im not human because i'm a christian floors me. You're the poster boy for atheism. You have your ideology, but you dont do any research on what youre debating against. The bible doesnt claim that sex is bad. mearly that there are more precious...
You clearly don't know religious people. I know you think you are blowing youtubes mind here. But you aren't. No religion preaches that you must eliminate bad thoughts. Its controlling them and KNOWING their bad, and to do whats right inspite of doing wrong because it feels good or gives you an advantage.
You espouse moral relativism. Therefore you must surrender all claims of "good" "bad" "wrong" "right" and cannot condemn people like hitler.
moral relativism is what it's all about. but as of now, the bible is NOT where we should be getting our morals. General law IS a representation of our current morality, and always has been. If you used the bible in a court case, you would get locked up for good. I can 'espouse' moral judgement if that judgement is against a house of ideology which actively seeks to dull and repress people's sense of morality. I CAN condemn people who promote non-peer reviewed or accepted social + moral standards
You seem to not get what moral relativism conclusion is. All you seem to care about is that it denys any morality from a higher moral giver whatsoever. Because if what is moral is RELATIVE....then you acctually have NO RIGHT to say ANYTHING is wrong, socially "acceptable" or no.
With your view, slavery was perfectly fine because it was socially acceptable. And a bunch of things that are legal today, but not socially acceptable, are wrong.
Also according to you, hitler was just fine in killing all the jews he wanted since he convinced a nation that it was acceptable for a greater purpose.
Also with your view, if somehow, for some reason it became socially accepted to rape women. According to you, that its just fine as long as it was peer reviewed and socially accepted. And I can hear your argument now "it would never be accepted by a peer reviewed group" And your proof of that is? Morals decay faster than a jug of milk.
whatever. Can't be arsed to talk to you any more. you're just being pedantic. The truth is that there is no higher moral giver, not at least in the terms we've defined him (god), and now that we've escaped the barbaric and oppressive 'morality' of the bible and allowed science and reason into society, we have finally just escaped the dark ages. You're a dying breed, take your bronze aged mythology and tell it to someone more impressionable. Or just drop dead. Pedant.
You are truly sad. Not only do you not understand what moral relativism means. You don't even know what its logical conclusion produces. Ontop of all that you resort to insults to try to prove your point. I guess you haven't escaped the barbaric dark ages. Wishing I was dead and insulting me is just SO civilized.
Hypocrite.
Your ability to argue and defend your own position is clearly weak since you didn't even try to counter any of my arguments.
the reason I am not countering your arguments is because I have countered them so many times to so many different people before. The point about morality that you're overlooking is that it is NEVER absolute. You are looking for absolute morality, which by its subjective nature can never be objective. It's best to accept moral relativism and make the best of it - applying principles like don't do anything that harms others, the golden rule, etc. I don't want to have this conversation, I'm bored.
This arrogance and superiority act isn't fooling me. I see straight through it. So you can stop it anytime.
Your logic is circular. And you assert things with no proof.
First you assert that its never absolute? Really? Its wrong to murder. THAT is a moral absolute. There is never a time where it is ok to take the life of someone without just cause. Name me one time where its acceptable to murder. Go ahead, name me one time and ill denounce my God.
I can tell you one of those times. You and another human being you respect and like are stuck on a desert island with nothing to eat. You will die unless you eat in the next few days, if not hours. One of you has to eat the other to last long enough for rescue to get there. If it's not murder, I don't know what it is.
You STILL dont get it. Look little boy. Ill try to break it down for you. You say morals are subjective. If morals are subjective THEN...THERE...ARE...NO...MORALS. And NOBODY has the right to say if something is "right" or "wrong". That would be like saying vanilla ice cream is "right" and chocolate is "wrong".
And thats a nice deflection you tried anyway. "im not countering them because ive countered them before"
What a cop out. Pathetic. Itll be a sad day for you when your bubble bursts.
You are absolutely right. I hope I haven't offended you too much and I hope you go on to create a wonderful life for yourself and those around you. I hope you do it justly, morally, and humanely. I hope you love your neighbour, no matter what their beliefs (as long as they aren't harming others), do unto others as you would have them do to you, and generally live a life of fulfullmint, achievement and happiness. All the best.
Look, I know you like to tell yourselves in other countries that you are smarter than Americans....cause that's all you got on us. But unfortunately, its not true. I see completely through every farce you've thrown at me. Including this one. And the irony is...I do all those things. And I do them because I know they are intrinsically right.
The only reason you act according to something resembling morality is out of fear of societal retribution.
To be religious is to seek something higher than yourself. I think the fundamentalist believers go nuts because they don't have a sense of humor. I am religious and think those bad thoughts. It IS human nature. We know that. We know that being human is less than worthy. That's why we try to deny those urges, to be more like God. Yours is a valid argument; however littered with sweeping generalizations about "the religious" folks.
to be religious is to not seek something higher than yourself, it is to conform to a group with money and power that gives a sense of belonging, power, virtue, and a standing that is beleived to be higher than anyone else outside of the group. it is the same reason people join gangs, biker gangs, hate groups, white supremeicts groups, and so on. its nice having a religion isn't it? dont you like knowing that you are going to heaven and everybody else is going to hell?
I don't believe in my religion to feel better than everyone else. It fills a void that I have. Most people suck, and to me God doesn't. I don't believe for money or power. It's because of anger and fear for the unknown that we can't all live in peace. Not every religious person fits the "fundamental" stereotype.
It's called a life. It costs 0,00$ at your local store. Heck no, you can probably buy it WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. Do sports, learn languages, science, take a look at some jobs, meet people, girls, etc. Your life won't be so boring then, trust me.
And God sucks, he sucks alot. Wait till this "God" of yours deceives you. Or that's what you'll think, even though he was never there to deceive you to begin with.
For people who are against religion because of it's fanatic judges, it sure is easy for all of you to sit in judgment of me and my government-mandated right to worship any way I want. I have a life. If God isn't right for you, then don't worship Him. But it makes you no better than those fanatics to judge me for believing in something you don't want or try to understand.
Human "nature". THINK of what that actually means. This is our NATURAL way of life. And a damn christian god tells us that it's sinful.Fuck god,fuck religion,fuck religious dogma bullshit!The one god made us to be sinners from the get go. Use your head,this is impossible!There is no free will that results in going to eternal hell!This is the Matrix, and Morpheous is shown you the way out!
Just tell these people to watch the movie "A Clockwork Orange" by the great Stanley Kubrick. It makes the point you were trying to make, perfectly. The movie explores this subject to the core, or the book by Anthony Burges, Stanley's version is more cynical.
There are christians who try to be more like jesus (of course it should be imposible to be that perfect)
because God asks for it on the Bible. So in this case I don't see what is the problem with not trying to be so human. You said that humans come with this sin and non-benevolent thoughts, so if christians try to follow the example of their God they would try not to be so human. And of course not all christians constantly "whip" themselves when they say something bad, that is not true.
I think you are making a large generalisation for all religious people. To support that kind of view and opinion you should be better prepared with a more objective perspective.You seem to me like you can't understand well religion and you are frustrated or that maybe you were christian when you were young and now you have realised many things about inconsecuences and unfair life or whatever many of the atheist I know were christians when younger.
"You attribute all your good thoughts to God, and you attribute all your bad thoughts to Satan."
Not all Christians think this way. A far cry from all religious people think this way. Official doctrine of most mainstream Christian churches says that it is our essential sinful human nature which causes us to sin, not the influence of Satan. Satan is just a cheerleader.
We aren't "sinful". We're animals, but our society has evolved beyond our biology, so we have this advanced society of "souls" stuck in animals. (I don't believe in souls, it was paraphrasing, to give an idea of what I meant)
It is what animal instincts are. They make you do things. Things which, sometimes, our society does not accept, because we no longer need it and its tampering with our evolution into a bigger, more prosperous society.
it's doesn't matter what the wachowski brothers meant in the film (I doubt they meant anything they probably just put religious/mythical symbolism in there for aesthetic reasons - the only real thing they explore is philosophy of Descartes), what matters is the train of thought it got me on. It led me to realise the religious deny a lot of things, but especially they deny their own lives.
Atheists religious nuts both deny their humanity (generally speaking) and impuslevlly complain about each others points of view
They may seem opposite but they are in truth extremes of the same pole.
Dogma is a problem with science as well as religion.
Lets all rise above the animal and BE Human beings
MrWillToPower 2 years ago
Wile we are talking scifi philo Dune, Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam, tests Paul Atreides with the box of pain if he acts on impulse he is considered an animal and killed if not he is human and lives... basically.
MrWillToPower 2 years ago
to act on impulses is to revert to revert to subhuman behavior
MrWillToPower 2 years ago
It's your right to believe this. My religion offers you the choice.
Raffzeee 3 years ago
To the moral discussion here: Moral is important, but in practice there are no such thing as "Right" or "Wrong" or "Good" or "Evil". There is only the act itself and power.
And religion does not make this world better in any way currently. It is only making it worse. If someone give me a very good reason why religion is improving this world I will convert to that religion the second I see the comment.
opalen903 3 years ago
things in life. love, happiness, good will towards man. I dont blame bad things on the devil all the time. I blame choices that sometimes could have been better...you need to do more research, because youre obviously lost and dont know what youre talking about. douche bag----->the devil made me right that (lol)
dakotajstorey 3 years ago
excuse me....WRITE
dakotajstorey 3 years ago
I cannot believe your ignorance. just that fact that you did this video drunk makes you look like a total douche-bag. Furthermore, you looked awesome smoking that cigarette.lol idiot. You need to seriously ponder the definition of human. To tell me that im not human because i'm a christian floors me. You're the poster boy for atheism. You have your ideology, but you dont do any research on what youre debating against. The bible doesnt claim that sex is bad. mearly that there are more precious...
dakotajstorey 3 years ago
Religious people ARE human, just not in the same mental state as irreligious. The same applies for people within different religions of each other.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
hmmmm stating 'honesty' when drunk.... sounds very very very truthful! good job! *SARCASM*
GodsGirl4Ev 3 years ago
You clearly don't know religious people. I know you think you are blowing youtubes mind here. But you aren't. No religion preaches that you must eliminate bad thoughts. Its controlling them and KNOWING their bad, and to do whats right inspite of doing wrong because it feels good or gives you an advantage.
You espouse moral relativism. Therefore you must surrender all claims of "good" "bad" "wrong" "right" and cannot condemn people like hitler.
Good day.
girzwald3 3 years ago
moral relativism is what it's all about. but as of now, the bible is NOT where we should be getting our morals. General law IS a representation of our current morality, and always has been. If you used the bible in a court case, you would get locked up for good. I can 'espouse' moral judgement if that judgement is against a house of ideology which actively seeks to dull and repress people's sense of morality. I CAN condemn people who promote non-peer reviewed or accepted social + moral standards
jamezmon 3 years ago
You seem to not get what moral relativism conclusion is. All you seem to care about is that it denys any morality from a higher moral giver whatsoever. Because if what is moral is RELATIVE....then you acctually have NO RIGHT to say ANYTHING is wrong, socially "acceptable" or no.
With your view, slavery was perfectly fine because it was socially acceptable. And a bunch of things that are legal today, but not socially acceptable, are wrong.
girzwald3 3 years ago
Also according to you, hitler was just fine in killing all the jews he wanted since he convinced a nation that it was acceptable for a greater purpose.
Also with your view, if somehow, for some reason it became socially accepted to rape women. According to you, that its just fine as long as it was peer reviewed and socially accepted. And I can hear your argument now "it would never be accepted by a peer reviewed group" And your proof of that is? Morals decay faster than a jug of milk.
girzwald3 3 years ago
whatever. Can't be arsed to talk to you any more. you're just being pedantic. The truth is that there is no higher moral giver, not at least in the terms we've defined him (god), and now that we've escaped the barbaric and oppressive 'morality' of the bible and allowed science and reason into society, we have finally just escaped the dark ages. You're a dying breed, take your bronze aged mythology and tell it to someone more impressionable. Or just drop dead. Pedant.
jamezmon 3 years ago
You are truly sad. Not only do you not understand what moral relativism means. You don't even know what its logical conclusion produces. Ontop of all that you resort to insults to try to prove your point. I guess you haven't escaped the barbaric dark ages. Wishing I was dead and insulting me is just SO civilized.
Hypocrite.
Your ability to argue and defend your own position is clearly weak since you didn't even try to counter any of my arguments.
Pathetic. Enjoy the bubble you live in.
girzwald3 3 years ago
the reason I am not countering your arguments is because I have countered them so many times to so many different people before. The point about morality that you're overlooking is that it is NEVER absolute. You are looking for absolute morality, which by its subjective nature can never be objective. It's best to accept moral relativism and make the best of it - applying principles like don't do anything that harms others, the golden rule, etc. I don't want to have this conversation, I'm bored.
jamezmon 3 years ago
This arrogance and superiority act isn't fooling me. I see straight through it. So you can stop it anytime.
Your logic is circular. And you assert things with no proof.
First you assert that its never absolute? Really? Its wrong to murder. THAT is a moral absolute. There is never a time where it is ok to take the life of someone without just cause. Name me one time where its acceptable to murder. Go ahead, name me one time and ill denounce my God.
girzwald3 3 years ago
I can tell you one of those times. You and another human being you respect and like are stuck on a desert island with nothing to eat. You will die unless you eat in the next few days, if not hours. One of you has to eat the other to last long enough for rescue to get there. If it's not murder, I don't know what it is.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
Killing someone for your own good isn't a just cause, by the way. This is exactly what it is.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
You STILL dont get it. Look little boy. Ill try to break it down for you. You say morals are subjective. If morals are subjective THEN...THERE...ARE...NO...MORALS. And NOBODY has the right to say if something is "right" or "wrong". That would be like saying vanilla ice cream is "right" and chocolate is "wrong".
And thats a nice deflection you tried anyway. "im not countering them because ive countered them before"
What a cop out. Pathetic. Itll be a sad day for you when your bubble bursts.
girzwald3 3 years ago
You are absolutely right. I hope I haven't offended you too much and I hope you go on to create a wonderful life for yourself and those around you. I hope you do it justly, morally, and humanely. I hope you love your neighbour, no matter what their beliefs (as long as they aren't harming others), do unto others as you would have them do to you, and generally live a life of fulfullmint, achievement and happiness. All the best.
jamezmon 3 years ago
Look, I know you like to tell yourselves in other countries that you are smarter than Americans....cause that's all you got on us. But unfortunately, its not true. I see completely through every farce you've thrown at me. Including this one. And the irony is...I do all those things. And I do them because I know they are intrinsically right.
The only reason you act according to something resembling morality is out of fear of societal retribution.
girzwald3 3 years ago
"Enjoy the bubble you live in."
The same can be said to you.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
you fucking arent human bitch
shiningstars109 3 years ago
lol
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
To be religious is to seek something higher than yourself. I think the fundamentalist believers go nuts because they don't have a sense of humor. I am religious and think those bad thoughts. It IS human nature. We know that. We know that being human is less than worthy. That's why we try to deny those urges, to be more like God. Yours is a valid argument; however littered with sweeping generalizations about "the religious" folks.
lousytshirt 4 years ago
to be religious is to not seek something higher than yourself, it is to conform to a group with money and power that gives a sense of belonging, power, virtue, and a standing that is beleived to be higher than anyone else outside of the group. it is the same reason people join gangs, biker gangs, hate groups, white supremeicts groups, and so on. its nice having a religion isn't it? dont you like knowing that you are going to heaven and everybody else is going to hell?
alanaldasucks 4 years ago
I don't believe in my religion to feel better than everyone else. It fills a void that I have. Most people suck, and to me God doesn't. I don't believe for money or power. It's because of anger and fear for the unknown that we can't all live in peace. Not every religious person fits the "fundamental" stereotype.
lousytshirt 4 years ago
religeons ask for moneyn far too much, churchs cost so much, and they still ask for more, its bullshit
religeous people should be like you, sit in a chiurch pray or whatever and leave us sane people alone no offence to you, you seem normal
avengedchaos 3 years ago
"It fills a void that I have."
It's called a life. It costs 0,00$ at your local store. Heck no, you can probably buy it WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. Do sports, learn languages, science, take a look at some jobs, meet people, girls, etc. Your life won't be so boring then, trust me.
And God sucks, he sucks alot. Wait till this "God" of yours deceives you. Or that's what you'll think, even though he was never there to deceive you to begin with.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
For people who are against religion because of it's fanatic judges, it sure is easy for all of you to sit in judgment of me and my government-mandated right to worship any way I want. I have a life. If God isn't right for you, then don't worship Him. But it makes you no better than those fanatics to judge me for believing in something you don't want or try to understand.
lousytshirt 3 years ago
Human "nature". THINK of what that actually means. This is our NATURAL way of life. And a damn christian god tells us that it's sinful.Fuck god,fuck religion,fuck religious dogma bullshit!The one god made us to be sinners from the get go. Use your head,this is impossible!There is no free will that results in going to eternal hell!This is the Matrix, and Morpheous is shown you the way out!
hollywodhack 4 years ago
Improve the sound quality and try to clarify the point you are trying to make.
chesolis 4 years ago
Were you jerking off when you made that comment?
jeffmoncheri 4 years ago
Just tell these people to watch the movie "A Clockwork Orange" by the great Stanley Kubrick. It makes the point you were trying to make, perfectly. The movie explores this subject to the core, or the book by Anthony Burges, Stanley's version is more cynical.
2012andyydna 4 years ago
There are christians who try to be more like jesus (of course it should be imposible to be that perfect)
because God asks for it on the Bible. So in this case I don't see what is the problem with not trying to be so human. You said that humans come with this sin and non-benevolent thoughts, so if christians try to follow the example of their God they would try not to be so human. And of course not all christians constantly "whip" themselves when they say something bad, that is not true.
voidstuff 4 years ago
I think you are making a large generalisation for all religious people. To support that kind of view and opinion you should be better prepared with a more objective perspective.You seem to me like you can't understand well religion and you are frustrated or that maybe you were christian when you were young and now you have realised many things about inconsecuences and unfair life or whatever many of the atheist I know were christians when younger.
voidstuff 4 years ago
"You attribute all your good thoughts to God, and you attribute all your bad thoughts to Satan."
Not all Christians think this way. A far cry from all religious people think this way. Official doctrine of most mainstream Christian churches says that it is our essential sinful human nature which causes us to sin, not the influence of Satan. Satan is just a cheerleader.
Joshbuckler 4 years ago
We aren't "sinful". We're animals, but our society has evolved beyond our biology, so we have this advanced society of "souls" stuck in animals. (I don't believe in souls, it was paraphrasing, to give an idea of what I meant)
It is what animal instincts are. They make you do things. Things which, sometimes, our society does not accept, because we no longer need it and its tampering with our evolution into a bigger, more prosperous society.
Alex06CoSonic 3 years ago
Impulses do not make humans human, it makes viruses viral. The matrix is highly religious and ambiguous, way too much space for interpretation.
olllj 4 years ago
it's doesn't matter what the wachowski brothers meant in the film (I doubt they meant anything they probably just put religious/mythical symbolism in there for aesthetic reasons - the only real thing they explore is philosophy of Descartes), what matters is the train of thought it got me on. It led me to realise the religious deny a lot of things, but especially they deny their own lives.
jamezmon 4 years ago