The Origins of Jazz

[Quisqueya77]

Mr. Tosh spoke for a whole 4 min without really saying anything pertinent ?!

[NavinJohnson90]

A lot of stuff this guy says isn't right.

[YasminaZack]

@NavinJohnson90 what for example?

[NavinJohnson90]

@YasminaZack

He said that church music and secular music were kept separate in Europe. In reality, a lot of secular songs were actually based on gregorian chant. There also weren't "banned pagan modes that were tuned so you couldn't play them on a keyboard." That doesn't even make sense. Also he plays Maple Leaf Rag wrong. The march was not the origin of form in music. Music hadn't been mechanical up until jazz; early western music actually had no discernable rhythm.

[NavinJohnson90]

@YasminaZack

But the most glaringly obvious thing isn't what he said, it's what he didn't say. How could you yammer on about Debussy and marches for 4 minutes in a video called "The Origins of Jazz", and not mention slave spirituals? I agree with BantuNation, why do some people want to skirt around the fact that jazz has its roots in African American culture?

[BantuNation]

Why do people have such a hard time saying it was invented by African Americans.

[Quisqueya77]

@BantuNation Don't forget Haitians BantuNation. The mysterious "black Creoles" who spoke French and Spanish that most authors and musicians seems to not want to clearly identify were from Haiti. Read between the lines;) Haitians were far more ahead than their American cousins. Someone need to say it for what it is...this is what it is.

[BantuNation]

@Quisqueya77

I agree man.

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 You do understand that most "black creoles" in New Orleans are not of Haitian heritage,right? There are plenty of African American "black creoles". The term "creole" isnt just used to describe haitians

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable I am well aware of what "creole" culture represents and what it means. I am referring to the "black creoles" who spoke french and Spanish. You should also know that Haiti doubled the french speaking population of Louisiana in 1809 a few year after the Haitian revolution. It is impossible to speak of Creole without mention of Haiti because Haiti, St Domigue, Hispaniola, Quisqueya, Boyo Ayiti or whatever you want to call it, is where it all started my friend.

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable The musical fertile crescent of America is Louisiana, Cuba, and Haiti. Haiti has empowered both Louisiana and Cuba.The first syncretic musical forms that resulted from the blending of the European musical tradition and the musical elements introduced by back and mulato musicians, such as the (la contre-danse haitienne) contradanza was established in Haiti and transferred to Cuba. The Haitian contre-danse gave birth to Danzón , the habanera, the merengue, the and ragtime

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 I think you should look up the origins of ragtime.Ragtime is purely American and was created by African Americans in the midwest of the U.S. The musical fertile crescent of america is the south , not cuba and haiti. Black american spirituals are the fountain from which just about every american musical genre sprung from. Blues , rock , doo wop , you name it.

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable Are you trying to tell me that american music has no influence from latin america?? You do realize that America does not consist of the United States only right? Now I'm talking about the influences of ragtime not its origins. Louisiana was Spanish and French before the Louisiana purchase. ;)

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 I didnt say it didnt have an influence from latin america , but you are over exaggerating its influence.

Look up the orgins of ragtime dude.

If you want the true orgins of american music , feel free to look up Robert Johnson - crossroads and music like that...american folk blues music , thats the real orgins and it is purely american no latin influences

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable Than how can you say it's purely american? I'm not talking about american music here. I'm talking about Jazz music moslty

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 Well jazz music come from blues music

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable Read between the lines when you're doing your reading.... many of the artist may be black and living in the the U.S. but their origins are from elsewhere.

Now when you say that most black creoles are not of Haitian heritage, what era are you referring to? Now I'm referring to the 19th century during the development of Jazz.

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 Nope , if you look at the majority of the most influential jazz musicians in regards to the development of the genre , louis armstrong , buddy bolden, james reese europe , etc etc they are all Black americans ...not of west indian heritage

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 Most creoles in lousiana area were never predominately haitian in heritage. There wernt enough haitians that immigrated to lousiana (atleast not enough to surpass the local black american populations). The majority of "creoles" in N.O have always been of black american/french and spanish ancestry.

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable What books are you reading my friend? What was the major french colony called?

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 LMAO you are over-exaggerating the haitian influence.Explain to me then why the overwhelming majority of early jazz musicians , and the musicians spanding the 210th century have been black american in orgin?

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable Let's not deviate from the key word which is "influence"

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 You mind dissecting and detailing the so called haitian influence on jazz music? Also , name some key figures int he jazz world that are/were of haitian descent

ill be waiting

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

i mean 20th century

[Quisqueya77]

@Quisqueya77 Tell me something. What was the population of Louisiana in 1804? How much did the population increase by after 1810? Once you find the answer to my questions, tell me what you conclude...

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 There were never more blacks of haitian descent in lousiana than blacks of american descent , at any point of time in that states history , just give up man

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable LOL you're too much dude . You're are not well read enough. Le'ts just stop here.

Just view Creole Common Routes; St.Domingue (Haiti) on youtube. This is easier than reading.

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 ROFL you mean to tell me that there were more blacks of haitian descent in Louisiana than american descent? Are you serious? LOL

and i viewed the 4 videos and they dont give credence to what you are trying to claim

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 lol and jazz is american music wtf are you talking about?

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable dude, did I ever say that it was not developed in the U.S.? The original premise was that Haitians living in the U.S. contributed greatly to its development of Jazz music. This is "wtf" I am talking about my friend;) I thought you were well versed in history...

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 You said "I'm not talking about american music here. I'm talking about Jazz music moslty" , which implies that you think Jazz music isnt american.

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable One of the greatest Ragtime players, Jelly Roll Morton, was of Haitian descent. So when authors speak of the influences of the "mysterious black Creoles who spoke French and Spanish", the are not referring to black English speaking Americans. The are referring mostly to Haitians. Yes I said it again. You may also read "Cuba and it's Music" and "The Story of Jazz". These books also mentions contributions.

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable I would also suggest you view Creole Common Routes; St.Domingue (Haiti) - Louisiana on Youtube. I believe it comes in four parts. American scholars talk about Creole history in Louisiana

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable I would also like to know where you get you information.

[BlacknesUnforgivable]

@Quisqueya77 History books , articles , etc etc

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable etc, etc, huh!;)

[Quisqueya77]

@BlacknesUnforgivable I also suggest you check out The African Roots of Latin Music on Google, hit up the first address, and click on "Musical Syncretism".

[MyRealNameIsntCledus]

Great Video!!

[ultimateinfinite]

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