World Championships Rome 1987 men's 5000m Final

[jimmyg141]

pardon me,only part of the way. still very odd adding unnecessary distance

[jimmyg141]

why is ngugi (i think its john ngugi) running in lane two the whole way??

[kozmon0t]

This race was not worth watching, like almost all championship distance races it didn't even start till the last couple laps.

But it set up one of the rare, truly great ones, next year when John Ngugi was so pissed off at being passed by literally everybody in this race, that he took a 50m lead after 5 laps and won from the front. Only Domingos Castro tried to catch him, and failed... a couple guys nobody remembers passed Castro for silver and bronze.

[xxxDAPROBLEMxxx]

closed in 52.94!!!!!!!!!!!

[asadraza5367]

Tremendous versatility: Said Aouita of Morocco is the only man in history (to date) to run the 800m under 1:44 and the 1500m under 3:30 and the 3000m under 7:30 and the 5000m under 13:00.

[TheShnag]

@asadraza5367 I think HIcham could have done it too.

[shiniyariis]

it's just matter of time when somalia comes back ,as you all know now MO FARAH IS THE LEAD OF EUROPEAN ATHLETICS N HE IS FROM SOMALI DNT 4GT ANOTHER IN SWEDEN ONE FROM HOLAND BT ONCE WE GET OUR OUR GOVRMNT WE RECLAIM OUR LOST VICTORIES N U ALL WILL C THAT WETHER IS CHEAT OR NOT

[bestofMD]

pavelkostov @mamowolde: what proof u have that they cheated and whats with except for the Ethiopians and Kenyans. they are clean, they don't need to cheat.WTS with this so u mean all other athletics they cheated the greatest hicham el gueerouj .

your someone whos not good at anything the only thing ur good at is talk shit about about ppl .

[mamowolde]

@bestofMD i never said aouita cheated fuck head. Read the quote below. The guy below me said aouita cheated..fucking douche..i said aouita is the greatest

[mamowolde]

HEY YOU OLD FARTS ARE TOO OLD FOR A COMPUTER!!STAY OFF AND GO TO YOUR NURSING HOME!! THE NEW AGE RULES....but Aouita is undoubtedly the greatest

[pavelkostov]

@mamowolde hahahahahahahaha auita the greatest?????? He is the biggest cheat in the history of athletics!!!!!! Right, world class at the 800 all the way to the 10,000. Oh wait, he got caught giving drugs to the athletes he coached. A complete farce just like all running in the 80's and 90's. Bunch of cheats except for the Ethiopians and Kenyans. they are clean, they don't need to cheat.

[cloverleaf164166]

Ovett's relatively poor performance can be attributed to an injury he picked up 4 weeks earlier in a 1500m race. Looking very sharp on the final bend he was set to win but pulled up - don't know whether it was a hamstring. He'd certainly run faster than this so i assume he was still carrying the injury. Not saying he would have challenged Aouita or anything but you'd have expected more of a showing.

[Zndwls]

Aouita won this race easily. His victory was made easier by the slow pace. Thus he could use his superior 1,500- metre speed at the end. I think he ran the last lap in just under 53 seconds. Domingos Castro's second place was a refreshing surprise, because he wasn't expected to place among the medalists. He defeated the likes of John Buckner and Pierre Délèze. This was one of Ovett's last major races - he placed a lacklustre tenth. Sydney Maree lost to him.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Aouita would have won off a fast pace, being the fastest 5000m runner by a long shot (which he proved in LA by the way); and, off a slow pace, he could produce this kind of finishing speed. Aouita is one of those people having the fitness to run WRs with the devastating turn of speed over the last lap. Hard to beat.

[legendair]

with any speed of pace Aouita was the only one who was going to win any way..in that season he run below 13mn, never someone did that..

[Moroccan4lifeone]

Aouita the pioneer of athletic legends hicham el guerouj his unstoppable successor. Morocco is proud of you.

[GetUpAndTryAgain]

52.8 last lap that's crazy

[FinnMove]

Before this race Aouita said that I win this

with a new world record like a super man.

But later he said because the running was

slow I decided to win with my superstrong

last lap ! A very humorous man.

[milerman]

Cram never considered running the 3k, 5k, 10k, etc. Ridiculous to think Cram would be dreaming of Aouita's all around range. All Aouita could do was dream of beating Cram at the 800 / 1500, something he could never do. They are two very different runners is all. And yes, the most racist remarks are from non-whites who hide behind the race card. When the pendulum swings in running, as it always does, wait til you hear the cries of racism. As for drugs, look at the histories of Rosa and Hermens.

[deano27671]

Hear! Hear! And Hoegen! I don't trust the validity of most of the WR's from 93-2004 as there was no test for EPO. Strange that there is such blind faith for someone who was sacked as the Australian National middle distance coach after trying to get their women runners to take PED's!?

[deano27671]

Ummm! Didn't Aouita run his fastest 1500m ever and break the 5000m world record in '85!? Yes, I think he did. If that wasn't at his peak then when was? And btw, not everyone agrees that he was the greatest athlete of all time, you are speaking only for yourself and a few others who know little about the sport and whose feelings are based on purely nationalistic lines.

[deano27671]

The vast majority of "experts'; and I'm referring to various polls, statisticians, publications that I have read, bought, owned, over the years since the early 80's do not consider him the greatest although his place in history is assured due to his range. In the Athletics Weekly list compiled by Mel Watman he was not in the top 10 on the all time list at 800, 1500 or 10,000m. He was number 2 at 5000m.

[deano27671]

There are several other athletes who appear on the top 10 in 2 events or more; e.g Michael Johnson, Paavo Nurmi, Haille Gebresalaise, Seb Coe, Carl Lewis, etc. They have a much stronger claim than Aouita does.

[LPCLASSICAL]

And Cram was not at his prime when Aouita beat him (when by the way?). The Cram of 1983/85/86 raced him twice in those times and beat him twice. So swallow that. I am not saying that A was not one of the world's great athletes. I am just saying don't get too carried away licking his sunburned backside because there are other great runners who had flair and charisma - and Aouita the running machine is not one of them.

[Moroccan4lifeone]

nobody was talking to you you brit old shithead.

[deano27671]

Bloody racist! It amazes me that people like you can use a sport to vent your nationalistic and jingoistic feelings by attacking someone's point of view because they might be from a particular country. If a European criticises anyone from a different faith or ethnic background then automatically you use the racist card, even if no mention of the faith or nation is mentioned! People like you are exactly why the world is in the state it is.

[blaharns]

Hai!

Eh!

Hai!

Eh!

[sslider08]

kobe is better...lol

[HeshimaJameni]

That is John Ngugi of Kenya (in all red) the winner of 5000m Olympic in Seoul in 1988.

[russia4u]

Remember that Aouita faced Cram in Nice in 1985 - when both athletes were at their best - and he LOST. He also ducked Cram and Seb Coe at the LA olympics so that he could pick up an easy gold in the 5000M. Cram also destroyed him in the world champs in 1983. So no more he's the best of all time nonsense.

[rubberneck1974]

mr smiley and finbar mcgonacle were the best milers of all time. 5mins 12 secs at their peak. beat that chiselcest!

[oldjoe5]

You are cherry picking. Aouita had the greatest range of all. Number 1 in the 800, 1500, mile, 2000, 3000, 5000, and 10k at different times in his career

[estifanico]

what the fuck you're talking about Moran..in 1983-85 Aouita had just strated and Coe and Cram were at their prime..Aouita crushed Cram many times and Coe himself said that Aouita is the best runner that ever existed..there's not been anybody who could win distances from 800 m to 10000m..matter of fact in his first 10000 m he scored the 3rd best time ever...u shud know what you're talking about before you open that mouth of yours

[blaharns]

Haile G: 1500m and 3000 World indoor champ. WR in 5000, 10000, HM, marathon etc. Multiple world -and Olympic champ.

[deano27671]

Aouita did not beat Cram between '83 and 88 (after which Cram was no longer at his best due to injury) except in a Mile in '84 when Cram fell over! So, firstly get your facts right. Coe never said Aouita was the best runner that ever existed, and Aouit pulled out of 3 races against Coe at the last minute; LA 84, Zurich 84 and a 1500m in '89. He pulled out because he was afraid of Coe's kick. Aouita purposely chose to run the 5000m in LA rather than face Coe and Cram at 1500m.

[estifanico]

Nobody had a fast finish as Aouita did..the man ran the 400m in 46 in fucking 86..I dont know what you are talking about.Aouita was registered in both 1500 and 5000 and at the last minute his coach Daouda asked him to pull out of the 1500 and concentrate on the 5000..get your facts right and look for Coe's interview and what he said about Aouita

[deano27671]

What is Coe supposed to have said about Aouita then!? Pray tell! If you're talking about the Arabian Knight documentary, he says that Aouita had the greatest range, which I don't doubt. As for LA 84, Aouita purposely ran the 5km because he had a better chance of winning gold than in the 1500m. As for running 46 for 400m, he ran 46.9 . If he could run 46.0 (as you claim on another post) then he would have been running 1:41 for 800m, & he struggled to run 1:43.88!

[deano27671]

Coe ran the last 100 in Moscow 15 in 12.1 & the 81 Europa Cup semi(800) in 11.3! These are both facts, documented & can be seen by anyone with a remote control and the ability to pause at the the right line, unlike those who quoted Aouita's last 100m as 11.8 in Nice '85, when they were timing from the 90m out mark! It was actually 13.2 for last 100m! Aouita had a great finish, but his basic speed wasn't as good as Coe's. He wasn't the 800m world record holder for 18 years for nothing!!

[deano27671]

And if you're going to reply with more profanities, as you have done in the past, then I'm afraid you've already lost the argument!

[estifanico]

to me..it's not about winning or losing an argument..these are facts and things that happened and I dont know where you get your info from but you seem to have things mixed up a lot..Im not saying Coe was nothing..Coe is a legend but Aouita is Unique..the only man to run and win distances from 800 to 10000..thats insane..if Coe or Cram run the 5000m..their crono would be sthg like 13.45..now I have a question for you if you dont mind and sorry for the profanity.Where r u from?

[deano27671]

You can find out where I'm from by clicking on my profile. My nationality has no bearing on my ability to recognise athletic greatness or my knowledge of a subject. My favourite tennis player is Nadal, I consider Borg & Sampras to be the greatest ever, though I am not Swedish, American or Spanish! I grew up during the era of Coe, Aouita, etc, have read a lot about them & have many of their races on dvd. I know what you are insinuating. My athletic heroes are from a variety of different nations.

[estifanico]

hey relax..I was just curious how u know ur stuff..I knew u were not American so I am assuming u r British..I grew up in the same era and my favorite tennis player is the forgotten Lendel.I am Moroccan and I know Aouita personaaly and a lot of the Moroccan champions r close friends of mine cos we run together..like Nezha Bedouane,Mouaziz,Skah,Hissou,B­outayeb..etc..I dont really care which athletes of which nationality u like..that's not what I meant

[deano27671]

I never said Aouita wasn't unique, and anyone who doesn't consider him an all time great, because of his incredible range, has a limited knowledge of the sport. All the stats I quote are facts! Aouita's official pb for 400m is 46.9, which he ran before he moved up in distance, which is incredible for someone who went on to be Olympic 5000m champion. Coe ran a 400m relay leg in 45.5 in the '79 Europa Cup final (Athletics Weekly, 10.8.79) Coe regularly run under 22 secs for 200m in training.

[deano27671]

Yes I am British and about the same age as you from your profile stats. I liked Lendl too,...always preferred him to McEnroe. If you know Aouita personally, then you are a very lucky man. Would love to have met him even the once! I would be interested to know where you got that 46.0 400m time for Aouita from? I guess it was a training time!? I am a bit skeptical when I have heard Moroccans saying EL G run 1:42.7 for 800m in training! It's then quoted everywhere as his pb.

[deano27671]

It could well be that he ran a hand timed 1:42.7 (which in itself means it was more likely c. 1:43.0), but the conditions are not the same as competition; he may well have had a different athlete pacing him for each 200m segment! If you know Aouita then you can remind him what he said about Coe in an interview for Athletics Today in '85, when he said that Coe "...like me, could run 3:27 easily!" At the end of the day whoever had the better "kick" is pretty subjective.

[deano27671]

Your comment about Coe running 5000m in 13:45 made me laugh a bit, because it was exactly the issue I was posting a message on the Lets Run message board yesterday. There is a lot of evidence to support the fact that Coe's POTENTIAL at 5k was similar to Aouita's. Of course he wouldn't have beaten Aouita over this distance, just as Aouita wouldn't beat Coe at his best over 800m. I will send some of the message in a bit, but basically Coe's endurance is woefully underestimated.

[deano27671]

It does actually state at the beginning of Chapter 4 in Coe's biography, "Born to Run", that in the winter of '78/'79 he "went for a 10 mile run with a couple of Yorkshire colleagues, Malcolm Prince and Andy Armitage. He covered ten miles in three quarters of an hour (the 10-mile world record of Jos Hermans of Holland is 45:57.2), an average of just over 4:30 to the mile, at the end of which he was sick." Coe had exceptional endurance capabilities, something which many don't realise or ignore.

[deano27671]

But where did Coe get his amazing endurance from? The answer came to me in 1986 when I went to Battersea Park Track one Saturday morning with a 13:11 5K performer to do a session of 7 x 800 at 5K speed with 45secs rest. The rep times were fixed at 2mins.08secs because the 5K runner was returning to fitness after injury. Coe was on the track and came across and asked what we were doing and could he join in?

[deano27671]

I felt a little apprehensive that an acknowledged 800/1500m runner would not survive a 5K pace session with a short recovery. The 800s went like this: 2:08, 2:06, 2:04, 2:02, 2:00, 1:58 and 1:56! Coe led them all. Afterwards, he confessed that he did a 5K pace session at 13:20 speed each week. I ventured the opinion that he could run a good 5K anytime. He agreed, but said he didn't like the event! It is doubtful whether any 800m runner before or since could complete such a session in such times

[deano27671]

The last 2 comments are quoted from a website and are attributed to Frank Horwil, the UK's national middle distance coach in the 80's I can send you the link in a private message if you wish, as it never allows me to leave a link address on here.

[deano27671]

Coe also beat Coghlan (83 World Champion) and McCloud (10000m Olympic silver medalist) in a 4 Mile road race in Ireland at the end of '78, off a season running only 800m races! Both Coghlan & Mcloud had run 13.20 that season. Coe also won the famous Vigevano road race twice; 20:59 for 7.5km in 1980, some 38 seconds faster than Ovett was to record winning the same race the following year, & 1983, recording 18.28 for the 6.7km; (27:33 pace for 10,000m). So I think Coe could have run at least 13:15

[fitzieo1]

As a big fan of Coe and Ovett myself,times for Ovett winning races should never be counted as he would tend to sit with the pace then out kick them at the end. Both fantastic runners and i don't think we will see their likes again in the U.K. The golden age of middle distance running.

[estifanico]

Said Aouita won events from the 800 m to the 10000 m he ran a good 1:43 in the 800 m and in his first 10000 m ever he runs the 3rd best of all times

[deano27671]

Yes he did WIN events from 800m to 10K, but he wasn't the best at all those distances. Yes he was the best 5000m runner from 84-89 but he was never ranked No 1 at 800m and won only 1 medal (a bronze). He won only a World bronze at 1500m and didn't win any medals at 10 k. Running one off fast times is one thing, but winning medals is what really counts.

[estifanico]

but Coe and so were his country-mates were the masters of doping..Coe ran 1:41 in the 800 m which is insane and especially in 1979 but by the beginning of the 80's middle and long ditance British runners disappeared from the planet earth.......???????????????? go figure

[deano27671]

That would be funny if it wasn't so ironic! You really don't have a clue. I think you'll find it is Aouita who was sacked as head coach of the Australian national squad for trying to get the athletes he was training to take drugs. Aouita came from nowhere in 83 at the age of 23 to run very fast times. There is no evidence at all about Coe, Cram & Ovett. The UK introduced random out of season testing in the early 80's long before the organised "medical" support centres were introduced in Morocco.

[deano27671]

So British distance runners disappeared in the early 80's did they? You obviously didn't follow the sport at this time. The UK won every major 1500m title from 1977 to 1987. Thats the late 80's. Kelly Holmes did the Olympic double in 2004 & Paula Radcliffe is still the Marathon record holder, so your insinuation doesn't bear much scrutiny. In the early 90's EPO came along and then the Moroccans started to do really well. You go figure!

[deano27671]

Yet more sloppy mistakes! He ran 1:41 in '81 not '79. Get your facts right!

[estifanico]

first try to be nice here ..im not attacking u or anything like that..i meant the early 90's and not the 80's and 13:20 and not 3:20..those were typing mistakes only..Aouita broke world records from 1500 m to 5000 m..so get ur facts right Sir.

[mamowolde]

in the book "Men of Oregon", Bill Bowerman says in an exclusive interview that sebastion coe admits to averaging less than 20miles a week. So very doubtful on Coe over 3000m.

[deano27671]

There is a lot of contradictory reports about Coe's mileage, which you will find a recurring topic on many message boards. I have read Coe saying he ran between 50 - 70 miles a week, but it depends on the time of the year. Whatever, his ability to beat world class 5 /10 k guys in 4 miles & 7k road races, together with documented accounts of his 5000m pace training sessions leaves me in no doubt he could have run sub 13:20 whenever he wanted & considerably faster had he focussed on the event.

[estifanico]

he could have run sub 3:20 only Aouita ran 12:58 and was untouchable.

[deano27671]

Who/what ran 3:20??

[deano27671]

lol! Absolute rubbish! Coe wasn't a high mileage athlete but he ran a minimum of 50 miles a week. That's from the horse's mouth itself; in Coe's biography.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Deano, why the hell are you quoting Coe's biography in a race HE'S NOT EVEN IN?!!! Deano, much as I respect your demigod, that is Sebastian Coe, I really must say that your total idolization of him, endless ranting and tirading against great athletes (and believe me, that is EXACTLY what you are doing- don't hide it like you've done the other few times!!!) who you believe do not live up to Seb Coe's standards is COMPLETELY IDIOTIC.

[deano27671]

Duhhh! Look at the thread of the comments, some of which have been deleted! You'll find someone said Coe ran 20 miles a week which is bullshit! I'm responding to that, not making a random comment about someone completely out of context. I know he isn't in this race!

[deano27671]

Another comment was in response to saying that the Brits in the 80's were dopers and I was saying that it's a bit rich coming from someone who is going on about how great Aouita is. If that irony is lost on you and you think my comeback is pointless, then that's your misfortune.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Add Kipketer to that list!

[YiftertheShifter1]

Oh it would appear as if your initial comments would fulfill that "noble purpose" of yours, but then you go ON AND ON AND ON about how "Coe did this" and "Coe did that." I notice you do the same thing on EVERY SINGLE YOUTUBE PAGE in which something good is said of Aouita, Cram, Ovett, El G, etc... EVEN WHEN COE ISN'T MENTIONED TO BEGIN WITH!!! Spare us!

[deano27671]

I'm flattered that you take such an interest in what I have to say! Maybe we could read some of your thoughts, if you have any, rather than read about what you don't want to see, on what is, after all, a public outlet for people to voice their opinions.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Ha ha ha ha ha! The only thing I'M interested in is why you've developed this cult of personality around your now retired athletic demigod- look at your youtube page for heaven's sake! I'm interested in why and for how much longer you're going to rip on every other athlete besides Coe, even on pages where COE ISN'T FEATURED!!! No matter the truth value of your statements, it just reflects an nothing short of fanaticism, which involves scorn for the likes of Aouita...

[deano27671]

Do you have something wrong with your keyboard, as it seems random words you type keep coming up in CAPITALS!? Or is this what they teach kids to do, where you come from, in order to grab someone's attention?

[YiftertheShifter1]

FYI, capital words are those which I CAN NOT STATE MORE EMPHATICALLY... notice you were more attentive to the words for which were capitalized. I was taught this trick from debating with people more or less ignorant than you.

[deano27671]

I'm not taking a lesson in ENGLISH grammar from an American kid, who wasn't even born when I graduated from Uni! Lol

Here's a free lesson. "notice you were more attentive to the words FOR which were capitalized," is wrong. This should have been, "...notice, you were more attentive to the words which were capitalised". Even better would have been, "...which were in capitals".

[deano27671]

The last sentence makes no sense at all. You either use "more" or "less" not both. When you've grown up a bit, educated yourself fully on the history of middle distance running, rather than take for gospel what you've been told, and can back up any points you make (and I haven't seen many from you yet!) with valid or accurate stats, then maybe we can have a civilised and mature dialogue.

[YiftertheShifter1]

Again, you are being evasive, anything to divert attention from your pathetic behavior. So, first you ask me why I use capital letters, now you're accusing me of giving you a grammar lesson? I'm surprised you didn't say Sebastian Coe in the your comments. Maybe your demigod is now the "God of the English language" as well as being being an "Athletics God."

FYI, I don't need a grammatical lesson either, since you obviously can't talk much about middle distance running w/o changing the subject

[deano27671]

I was giving you a piece of your own medicine. Namely, being petty! Grow up!

[YiftertheShifter1]

The only thing that's petty here is you and your new cult. Funny how a man who worships an athlete who was active when he was a teenager is telling ME to grow up... Explain?

[deano27671]

I was a teen, you weren't even at school when Kip was running. I'm not wasting my time explaining anything to you.

[YiftertheShifter1]

One difference: as an athlete these days, I look up to great names like Kipketer for inspiration. You, on the other hand, WORSHIP Sebastian Coe, even though you (assuming by your age, which you constantly emphasize) are not a competitive athlete.

[knightsxc06]

It's unfortunate that Steve Ovett was treated the way he was by the British press... He had such a pure love of athletics and he couldn't hide his joy when he was in the home straight of a winning race. He ran road races, xc and all kinds of distances on the track. "The important thing is- to run" he said. Poor O can't even do what he loves anymore thanks to the accident. Coe had the better career, but IMO he was a running robot with little relatable emotion & infinitely less likeable.

[fitzieo1]

What accident?

[knightsxc06]

Ovett was hit by a car in 1993 while on the bike training for a Duathlon. He was going to attempt a Tri, but he found that he wasn't very adept in the water.

[garicmidknight]

Sandman Bagger was the the greatest of all time! 3:23 miler he was!

[solitaryforever]

For anyone who wishes to know more information about Said Aouita and his races, I would recommend the book of Michael Sandrock "Running With the Legends".

[sslider08]

although aouita is a legend...el guerrouj got the upper hand...that's why he's the legend of legends...invicible

[solitaryforever]

No doubt El Guerrouj is a legend, and we love him and respect him very much, but he didn't get the upper hand over Aouita. Aouita was so unique, he dominated all distances from 800m to 5000m. You can have more details on wikipedia for example. Don't forget also that it's Aouita who opened the way for a whole generation of Moroccan Athletes (including El Guerrouj). Thanks

[knowthebird]

Aouita is the best runner in the history of Athletics..the only man to win from 800m to

10000 m..unbelievable..it's like if you say somebody who can win 100 m up to 1500 m..he is my hero man

[solitaryforever]

He's my hero too.

[mvp111MCA]

Said Aouita is the best runner ever !!!! a very good person too !

[seanbehncke]

Aoutia is the greatest athlete ever.

[zzakalumanin]

And what a finish by Buckner! 3 GB athletes in the final, a bygone era.

[samjraous]

Aouita is a legend. So is Skah and others.... and they were all bread in.... the atlas mountains.

[runsaul]

Aouita was The Man. He had range like no other athlete in his days, gears like no other and championships to back it all up.

[mesknight]

aouita aouita aouita :) is a myth and one of the great athlets of the world he used to run from 800m to 10 000m

his name is graved in the books of athletism