John Safran Vs. God - The Pope Vs. The Dalai Lama

[Thevoiceofoz]

You legend John, you should write a book.

[shinunotenshi]

The Dalai Lama is a "cocksucker" because his beliefs are different than yours? Grow up.

[bondenjostein]

@shinunotenshi Your views are different than Casmirs, and therefore you ask him to "grow up"? Grow up.

[shinunotenshi]

@bondenjostein Your views are different than my views which are different than Casmirs, and therefore you ask me to grow up because I asked him to grow up? That's fine with me.

[bondenjostein]

@shinunotenshi You are fine with me asking you to grow up for telling casmir to grow up for having differing views than the Dalai Lama? Damn, more internetters should be like you

[ewe2oobes]

A little meditation reveals that the tenents of Buddhism- the purpose of abstaining from the above said activities does make the mind clear, temper the ego, and form firmer mental habits, as opposed to cultivating a habit of deepening the practice of the said activites. The priniciples are that the mind matters most, and cultivation of the mind leads to the path of enlightenment, by developing a mind that is founded in pure unalloyed happiness. But let your own wisdom and experience tell.

[dive5]

@ewe2oobes No just more prove why you should not be a blind follower to something and that Li Hong.would wonder why this guy thinks he knows best and is best for you.

[elgranto7]

Buddhism specifically teaches that you should make your own conclusions and question everything told to you.

There is no religious text or exact way of life with buddhism.

[sekamenacerecords1]

And for the record I am atheist, not Buddhist. 

[DirtyMidgetStudios]

They way you pronounce "Dalai Lama" erks me.

[Robstailey]

The point is fuck religion, and fuck however you want.

[1337pede]

This is why you stick to the roots of Buddhism, people. Theravada all the way, bitches!

[samuelsixvids]

The Dali Lama is a fornicator, i just had sex with him. He preffered the bottom position. Really.

[Angusj09]

Dont get me worng, i'm annoyed by the hip western wanker buddhists as much as the next guy, but dislike them for the right reasons.

As for the Dalia Lama sucking cock...didn't the video just say that he forbids it? Haha.

[Angusj09]

I'm sorry haters but this is a vast oversimplification.

The Dalai Lama, with all these examples, suggests that these actions are detrimental to a budhist path with the aim of reaching enligtenment. That is not at all to say that they are 'wrong', only that they are unhelpful in achieving this goal.

He also goes on to give very logical reasons why these aren't helpful in a budhist context, specifically here in that they are based on the seeking of pleasure.

[DominicGudgeon]

@Angusj09 But if you read, for example, the Catechism, you can argue exactly the same point. There are 'practical' reasons, it is not the path to salvation, it is only for pleasure etc. It's not like the RC church haven't thought about it, there are TOMES dealing with this sort of stuff. Pope didn't wake up one day and say "you know what, fuck anal".

[Angusj09]

@DominicGudgeon You're cxompletely right. The essential diffference i was trying to get at (and the reason this video is so misleading) is that Buddhists dont care if you follow their religeon and ethics or not. The ethics themselves are open for alteration and buddhism has a culture of encouraging people to challenge ideas for themselves and follow whatever path they want, free from condemnation or punishment. Whether the RC church is the same is a bigger debate.

[valcarni1]

John Safran rules

[vicweb1978]

Looks like Safran (who is Jewish) is going about trying to make hippies look disingenuous & ignorant, but he's the worst offender.

"Who says male-male sex is inappropriate?" - WRONG that was the Dali Lama, AS IF The Pope accepts it & completely ignoring the fact that the Christian religion has tortured people to death for it, amongst many other benign things, all through history.

Show me a case of a single Buddhist burning people alive or torturing infidels.

This video is a load of crap.

[loggats]

@vicweb1978 you're full of crap. Christians were burnt alive, and are being tortured today in the Middle East. And if you knew anything (which you obviously don't) you'd know that Tibet under the Buddhist theocracy was a TERRIBLE place to live, where the common people had to sacrifice food to the monks, were treated like slaves and were tortured for breaking their laws.

[sekamenacerecords1]

@loggats Substantiate your claims. This video is misleading i.e. final statement "it is held that sex during the day is misconduct" - held by who John Safron? Just because the Dalai Lama states that "it is held" does not mean that he holds this view, it obviously implies that society holds this - and even if he does, taking a small amount of comments out of context is ridiculous.

I used to like John Safran, now I think he's a dick. Congratulations.

[jamesscottfour]

@sekamenacerecords1 The quote is found on page 46 of the Dalai Lama's book, Beyond Dogma: Dialogues and Discourses. You can search inside the book on Amazon.com to verify the quote; it is genuine. The context indicates that "it is held" means that this belief is held by Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is clearly endorsing this viewpoint in the book.

[rothery86]

lol @ the walking stereotype holding a copy of Green Left.

[Panthro3000]

i meant context...not conduct.

[Panthro3000]

The host actually is taking the Dalai Lama's words out of conduct. The Dalai Lama never established a view. He said it seems to be a bit unnatural, but then he goes on to say if two people are in a loving non-abusive relationship, then stops short to say if its okay.

After reading up on this matter, buddha never established a view on sexual misconduct either. He also stated what is wrong for buddhists isn't wrong for others, or necessarily wrong for others.

[SHAWNtMOORE]

Who is more conservative the pope and dalai lama?????

[SolRosenberg84]

Yeah, for all their good ideas on suffering and such Buddhists are still pretty stuck up on the matter of sex.

[ChildePC]

So much for a religion that is suppose to reject sex.

[itssolastcentury]

Was that Richard Gere in the pope outfit? Well! I'd never have imagined it.

[T0pcatFilms]

this is great, people who are freaking out below commenting on how he shouldn't make fun of the holynesses. He's not making fun, he's making a point about perception. People automatically think that the Dalai Lama is more liberal than the Pope. You're saying quoting the Dalai Lama makes him look bad... but it's just what he said. I loved this show. Opened the eyes of a lot of people.

[Asamusic69]

so sad to see people spending their energy to discredit the Dalai Lama or the Pope to justify their sexual conduct.

These two man are the most compassionate men in this fucked up world and now this video...

Nothing better to do?

Why dont you stick a cucumber in your ass and blame also Allah or Jesus because they dont approve your sexual conduct?

BTW

check on wiki for the thinking of buddhism on sexuality

[Muzzly1234]

Stop ruining the truly good name of his holiness, Tenzin Gyatso. The "pope" is nothing more than a "Nazi Boy Scout" who's stuck in the past. :/

[flammatus]

He just chose people with dreads!

[sgsfdgfsdfsdfsddf]

Dalai Lama also was the Dictator of Tibet

Pope has a small piece of land. that really is not a country

[fortyblinks]

Typical straw man approach. It's never been a dominant view that the Dalai Lama was a sexually liberal thinker.

[User1NotFound]

im guessing this was made with the intention of a western viewing audience - one that isn't buddhist historically.

what you DIDn't hear the Dalai Lama say is - sexual energy is a good thing - but in Tantric systems it is redirected into a spiritual practice where the physical sexual act isn't the goal at all.so to sum it up

tldr these dalai lama quotes are relevant to serious Tibetan Buddhist practitioners - and if Tibetan Buddhist practice isn't your goal you can safely ignore these.

[thewiffenpoof]

wow. aussies are dumb. like american dumb.

[Sneedy]

@mmabbr: Safran does mention husbands & wives. Because this video was designed to have a visual impact and not to evaluate teachings by rigorously citing works, context, and publication dates, how can anyone but a scholar know whether Safran is comparing 15th-c Tibetan Buddhist prohibitions with a 20th-century post-Vatican-II positions?

Safran makes the common but mistaken assumption that the DL is analogous to the Pope. But the DL just heads the smallest of the 3 main schools of Buddhism....

[Aquaria]

@Sneedy This isn't about arcane, petty points about Buddhist philosophy; it's about what the DL HIMSELF has actually said. It's entirely immaterial what Buddhism is or is not, and nobody cares but the deluded.

[Sneedy]

@Aquaria For those with even a slight sense of nuance and context (that will come with education, Aquaria ... be patient), these points are far from "arcane, petty" to those who live in that culture — one that's already far older than ours will get to be.

Your pronouncements have even less substance than Safran's, which are taken out of context and intended only to entertain. They would hardly stand up to expert analysis. Your reasoning is the same sort that calls all Muslims terrorists.

[Aquaria]

@Sneedy Bullshit has no substance except bullshit, you condescending prick. Only a gullible fool with the intellect of a 2 yr old--that would be you, would find substance in the logically inconsistent and the inane.

Your beribboning of the invisible doesn't make you 'nuanced' or substantial. It exposes you as the mindless simpleton you are. That's why you make ridiculous assertions about terrorism toward people you know jack shit about, with no basis of fact. But then religious pricks do that.

[Sneedy]

@Aquaria Thanks for showing your true colors, recurring to the use of adolescent obscenities to distract from your ignorance and the weakness of your non-argument, and so proving my point for me.

Bravo! Didn't expect you to make it THAT easy, Aquaria!

[Sneedy]

What Safran forgets to mention or didn't dig deep enough to find out is that most of what the Dalai Lama was declaring to be forbidden referred to monks and nuns, not to lay practitioners.

And LlortnA, how exactly is Buddhism "just another garbage new-age religion"? It's 500 years older than Christianity. No wars have ever been waged in its name. The Buddha forbade proselytizing; Buddhists cannot do the door to door Jehovah's Witness thing. Do your homework, don't just exercise your prejudices.

[mmabbr]

@Sneedy Which quotes are you saying are being misportrayed? Seeing as he specifically mentions married couples it's clearly not all abount monks & nuns.

[Sneedy]

@mmabbr: in most Buddhist traditions the Vinaya (200+ precepts monks/nuns live by) are scaled down to 1-digit numbers for lay people, tho not applied in the same way. The full set of rules is considered primary, tho. The DL's sexual conduct statements do not apply to Mahayana (incl. Zen) or Theravada schools. The rules exist not to repress lay people, but to reduce distracting obstacles to meditation and enlightenment. They are based on what Buddha found to work, not speculation.

[Skullpanzer]

God DAMN this guy has an annoying voice.

[BTNH24]

While I disagree with Dalai Lama's views on sexuality, his philosophical and moral views are far more sound than the Pope's or anyone else's for that matter. I can't believe that people would actually hold this minor nuance against the Dalai Lama, even though the other 95% of his teachings are sound.

Also, remember that these views don't represent the views or teachings of Buddha himself.

[squreshi10]

It's always nighttime somewhere...

[joiningtheforce]

Well, I strongly believe that HH Dalai Lama, just like the pope needs to become more openminded and secularized in this matter.

I also believe that the buddhist readings of sexuality generally needs to be rejected or redefined since they don't fit in this age.

I though feel the need to anounce that buddism is a great collection of thoughts which everyone can benefit greatly from... and that the Dalai Lama, though not great on sexuality, posess great wisdom...

[James92802]

Well if you know your history - you may want to ask yourself how much wisdom they have when it comes to slavery, or women's rights.

Truth is the ppl of Tibet are far better off under China than they were under the cast system of Buddhism.

That being said - yes they would be even better off under a Western style of government.

(watch all the US hate mongers surface now)

[joiningtheforce]

@James "cast system of Buddhism" ?

[ThaGMan51]

@joiningtheforce As in the former theocracy in Tibet with monks at the top and everybody else as slaves?

[joiningtheforce]

@ThaGMan51 I'm not in favor of that kinda society, nor are the buddhist teachings. I don't think that the Dalai Lama want that society back either.

[ThaGMan51]

@joiningtheforce There's probably more democracy in China's style of government than his.

[jdlaw001]

The Dalia Lama has better PR, it's the only reason his more popular than the pope in the west.

[Frankie1410]

Wow the Dalai Lama likes to talk about sex...

[up2trix]

woah i didn't expect that of the dalai lama

[LlortnA]

More people need to see this. I'm sick of these wannabe neo-buddhists in the west. It's just another garbage new-age religion.

[Miryr]

@LlortnA First of all it's not a religion, it's a philosophy. Second of all the founder of Buddhism specifically did not want to point out a successor because of this particular reason and he did die without naming one...

Furthermore, philosophy aside the practices the philosophy (not the Dalai Lama) advocate have been proven to be good for your health. There's also no such thing like the 10 commandments in Buddhism, there's just four ideas to follow to be a better person.

[MountAnalogue]

@LlortnA

You realize Tibetan Buddhism is very different from mainstream Mahayana, or Theravada, or Zen, etc...? It makes no sense to group them al together as one teaching.

[darkangel8989]

@LlortnA u know that buddhism came way before christianity and many christianity views are the same as buddhism? god i wonder how christianity got their ideas.......

[Shiranui115]

@darkangel8989 A was before B, therefore, B is a direct effect/derivative/etc. of A. Classic logical fallacy right there.

[darkangel8989]

@Shiranui115 actually u missed the point. have u read both the bible and buddhist texts? i am assuming no. read the both and you will come to the same conclusion. in you process of trying to be witty you failed XD have a nice day

[Shiranui115]

@darkangel8989 And? Just because Buddhism came before Christianity, yet had similar ideas, does not mean Christianity borrowed ideas from Buddhism. Just like the claim I hear about Christians borrowing the cross symbol from the Egyptian Ankh. The conclusion is unsupported by the evidence. Just because Buddhism and Christianity share ideas doesn't mean one borrowed ideas from another.

[apexcreatures]

@LlortnA

I'll take garbage new-age religions to Christianity and the Abrahamic religions any day.

[infinitycycle]

@LlortnA had a friend tell me they are bhuddist because its a more realistic and forgiving religion. "There is no heaven or hell." was the quote. After I gave them my copy of the Bardo Tholdol and they read about the wrathful dieties.........

[DannyAces]

....gonna have to call quote farming on that one.

Are we supposed to make the assumption that because the Dalai Lama says blank, and we're given two choices (Pope or Dalai Lama) that the pope thinks the opposite of what these statistics and quotes are saying?

I'm fairly certain that the pope is on the Adam&Eve not Adam&Steve end of the spectrum.

People are doing what they're supposed to- picking out what is good in a man and following THAT lead.

[Karragh]

I don't think the point of this is to say the pope is more liberal / better than the Dalai Lama, the point of this is to say the Dalai Lama isn't all that different from the pope. Because the questions are all

Setup: Something the pope would believe.

Answer: Dalai Lama said this specific quote. He believes it too.

[jamesscottfour]

@Karragh The Catholic Church has never condemned intercourse during the day. So the questions are at least set up as "Something *people think* the pope would believe." In some cases he does believe it, but not necessarily in every case.

[stefanmuc2k]

Wow - comes up with really interesting angles on almost anything.

[mental177]

hahhhahaa