EXPOSED: Media ignore Pentagon Pundits scandal

[vincent15641]

Compare this video with the Aimed At America 1 video.

[1980vince]

dont you satanist ever get a break.

[whyputaname]

This is a great video, I was wondering if someone kept a catalog on them, it was so long ago I almost forgot about the term Pentagon Pundits........

[fuzzywzhe]

If you don't realize that our television and print media is basically Pravda by NOW, you're just fucking stupid. How do you think we got into Iraq in the first place? What about the dot.com bubble?

It's been like this for over 20 years now.

[larry1369]

Duh! The sons and daughters of the poor and middle class come home in body bags or wounded while the rich in the Military Industrial Complex are at the feed trough getting fat on the blood of others. I didn't notice either of Bush's daughters sign up to be in the military. How shameful! Support our troops, bring them home. No blood for oil, alternative energy. Educate yourself and find out who wanted this war and the explanation will be obvious. Rot in hell Bush, Cheney, Wolfawitz, Rumsfeld...

[LillianColwynnscehy]

This is nice video77941323

[IwantInappropriatema]

THIS JUST IN:

Corporate Media does not investigate its own subjugation to military/corporate elites!

When did THIS sort of thing start happening??

[growsitwell]

I remember a Washington Post quote about utube saying" we will be held responsible for the things we say", lol. I always thought it was the media that would have to answer some day. Still do, traitors they are.

[qualityrkc]

fuck the media...they didn't say shit about ron paul and he was uber awesome

[dilbertgeg]

Dave McGowan has excellent story on CNN + Military collaborating on psywar campaign, AND on a military op -- assassination attempt on a Serbian leader.

Paul Vallely is a career Psywar specialist.

[fatfrank22]

Nice insight to how it works....just don't hold your breath cos it'll happen again.

[eyeOOsee]

aka "no more fake news" dot com

[italstal07]

send murdoch and other goebells disciples to gitmo and waterboard them for the truth..

[michielgrillet]

you're soo right, since that's no torture according to them :)

[jet310]

One of the first rule of subjugating a people is to ruin the avenue of information. Discredit the truth and propagate the lies. Please read "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli.

[KobyBrandt]

Everybody be a spinnin'!

The Mainstream Media is totally untrustworthy at this point & to rely on just about anything that they report on not to be politically-motivated is foolhardy. It's one propaganda machine; ethics in journalism be damned. They have fully earned their very bad reputation and the solution is NOT TO WATCH your TV media anymore, and instead utilize the internet medium for your news. The "powers that be" are have grand difficulty taming this medium -- and they can't, yet.

[lordblazer]

They soon will by 2014. :'(. So we must fight it and one day join the hackers in a secret society of those who fight to restore the internet(I've read too much science fiction)

[KobyBrandt]

Maybe even before 2014 -- but we will do everything we can to keep this the new and open frontier for as long as we possibly can, eh?

[Budvb]

And who says Paper Money don't Rule the World!

[abolmo82]

WOW, I can't believe it took the Americans all this time that their media is biased and made up.

[lordblazer]

...... YOu're an idiot if you think a few big corporations speak our voices. Millions of Americans have been saying this since 2001!!!!!!! But the media doesn't show protest, and the media doesn't cover much at all. You know something big is going down when all the news talks about is Paris Hilton's new tit job for 3 weeks straight 24/7. Though I agree with you, but people are walking up because they realize they are getting fucked over. Things will soon change hopefully.

[frenchy4001]

i must confess i found that amazing to see paris hilton or even spears on the news i mean i've never seen that kind of thing before on the news till i moved in Oz, everyday they gonna talk about a celebrity who got arrested ...wtf?? 0_o I lived 19 years in france and i've never seen that on the news...

[lordblazer]

Welcome to America, but Japanese news is a bit worse. After living in Japan for a few months. I came to that conclusion XD

[tothian99]

Good video - well put together. I'll add that to my 'arsenal' of media spinning cases.

[gpetz]

the media has been influencing the campaign for president, it is no suprise that they allowed the puppets of the pentagon to serve as supposed unbiased military experts. That's the military industrial complex that has, together with the drug war/prison worker, law enforcement complex this country in it's thrawls. Wake up America and promote a Gravel or Paul or Kuchinich, rather than the war mongering candidates now in the lead.

[jet310]

It not only that we are being propagandized by the talking heads and their cheerleaders. We are slowly losing the right of protest. Thank goodness for Freepress and Amy Goodman.

[jammasterjayfan]

It not only that we are being propagandized by the talking heads and their cheerleaders. We are slowly losing the right of protest. Thank goodness for Freepress and Amy Goodman.

Not to mention Lou Dobbs.

[LXC506]

That was to halcyon 083 by the way.

[LXC506]

My favorite part of this is how the big bad government has done so much to silence you...oh wait.

[GimbleTheWizard]

I'm voting for Ron Paul even if I have to write his name in.

[lorettarosa]

Thank you Videofreepress, for all you do .

[RicePickerRob]

What is the big deal?

[Hahavishnu]

A free press that we can trust is the big deal...

[reality7777]

"what's the big deal?"

It's those kinds of questions that show that many Americans are simply ignorant. This "deal" is what Fascists in Italy and Germany did in the 30s to take power. Our current gov't has subverted the democratic process and ignored the Constitution hundreds of times, literally!

But how many Americans have ever even read the Constitution or understand how our gov't is supposed to be run?

[000stryke3000]

May God Bless Us with Ron Paul as Our Next President!!! I REFUSE to Vote for the lesser of the Evils this time!!! Ron Paul ALL THE WAY!!!

THE REVOLUTION CONTINUES........

[Song476]

God bless the revolution!!!!

[outragedpalmer]

A vote for Obama is a vote for Bush.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for Bush.

A vote for McCain is a vote for Bush.

Vote Ron Paul 2008. Or get more of the same shit!

[YouGotRonPauled]

You've got Ron Pauled!

[paforbo]

Isn' it weird that nobody in the media is reporting on the civil fraud trial against hillary and cronies in the los angeles superior court. Civil case summary number BC304174 If it was Obama everyone in the media would be storming all over it like flies. So where is the media, where is the fairness, where is the radical right.

Because the right knows Obama will defeat McCain, so they desperately want Hillary to beat Obama. So you are know seeing the general. When hillary goes so does McCain.

[lovuian]

Propogandist MEDIA they Media drumrolled for the Iraq... I don't watch any Media News and get news from Internet. US Media is Propoganda

American people know this and thats why the news channels have falling rating

[fckuvrymch]

GREAT EXAMPLES OF HOW IT IS SET UP.

Beautiful.

THANKS THANKS THANKS

[Iconoclasm333]

9/11 was an Inside job,

WTC 7 WAS a controlled demolition,

AIrforce stood down and left the Pentagon COMPLETELY DEFENSELESS for OVER an Hour!

And no,the "AL Qaeda" boogieman didnt have the means to do that

Only traitors inside the government could have done that

NO ONE was fired or court martialed, and the Bush-controlled 9/11 Commission was a COMPLETE whitewash by the white house.

That is PROOF of a conspiracy right there.

Its as simple as that.

The TRUTH about 9/11-

watch?v=9yTgbZSATTU

[grazon]

Even Noam Chomsky thinks you're a tinfoil hat wearing idiot.

[stealth63]

Make some noise people. I talked to my dad about this, and he had no idea what I was talking about. For a lot of Americans, if it doesn't get covered in the evening news, it doesn't exist. Ask someone what they think about paid admin propagandists passing themselves as independent analysts. It might pique their interest

[shizzle5150]

I can think about other times things like this have happened...It ended with people hanging from street lamps. I think this too should end with people strung up before the public in front of the white house.

[Tuppington]

jeez man, thats pretty harsh! maybe they should just be sent to iraq for the war they say is going so well so we can bring our troops home to safety.

[2rate1]

Big business and government take our money from the same bucket - they work together to rip us off.... always have and they always will until enough people decide to stop it!

[ProlefeedTV]

You will believe what you are told. You will not question the media. Questioning the media is thoughtcrime.

[SatwaMan]

How much money did each of them make?

The answer to this question should be publicised again and again, and the money taken back from the to pay for the Vets recuperations

[armadilloze]

"How much money did each of them make?"

GOOD question. And how much money did those telling the truth make? Not a dime. The corporate media wouldn't let them on, history shows.

[grazon]

Some member of Congress better bring this up on monday.

I don't care if it's Dennis Kucinich Ron Paul or Bugs Bunny.

If none of them bring it up in the next week.....

[rsnic]

If they do this you have to wonder what the limits are. The military should not be dealing in internal politics of a country unless the ultimate goal is fascism. US politicians need to put the military back under civilian control, Disband the CIA for starters, these organisations don't belong in free societies.

[jayraskin]

Absolutely.

[redviper101]

So this explains why the media have been cheerleaders for war. My guess is there are some top executives in the media that have a stake in the military industries. Money is more important to these people then life itself.

[divineintervener]

The pundit scandal? So, these people supported the war and it's a scandal? These retired military officials exercised their 1st Amendment rights and, according the anti-war crowd, this is a "scandal" that needs to be researched. Why is it always peace and freedom loving liberals who are so adamant about silencing free speech they don't agree with?

[medaa25]

The scandal is that American like you don't listen. These people came as independant but in fact they are being briefed by the government and/or military companies into what to say to the media... Some of these pundits even admit that they were saying things they didn't believe in.

Do you have a short term memory?

[buzz851]

Its a scandal because they were saying one thing to the American people but in private they knew things were going bad. Don't look at this as a liberal vs conservative thing ,it's getting old, they all lie to you!!!

[nicholas9999]

divine: The military guys seemed to have misrepresented themselves as independent commentators, while in fact having been prep'd by the pentagon as part of a propaganda campaign, as well as having financial ties to the contracting firms that would benefit from having the war pushed. Google these words: tv analysts pentagon hidden hand, then read the ny times article.

[SineadNiC]

Eason Jordan - what a tool. Goebbels would have loved him.

[jtilak]

the media are covering their own asses.

[sheeouza]

terrible

[Epic878787]

Good work.

[yt5454]

Wow, Bush is using taxpayers' money to lie to and push propaganda on the taxpayers. Who would have suspected that?

[Spectre11B]

I dont believe the Pentagon did anything wrong or the media. The Pentagon's job was to sell this war. The media's job is to make money. They both accomplished this. The burden of responsibility is on the public to be objective. If you are relying on the News for unconditional truth, then youre an idiot.

The ole adage, Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see, still holds true.

[yt5454]

"The Pentagon's job was to sell this war."

Wrong! The Pentagon's job is national defense, not PROPAGANDA.

[moviemanacct]

No the Pentagons job is nation building, to instill Democracy where it is not wanted, while at home Democracy fails

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: The point is, the ball is in all our courts, so to speak. We've known the Pentagon has a tremendously successful record of selling whatever they want to sell ("we need a new plane, tank, missile defense system") to Congress, who appears to be putty in their hands. Somehow some way, there's got to be a way to inject some of this energy in all these blogs into the American governmental process, i.e., to demand some action on a number of fronts.

[chefsanders70]

zeitgeist!

[getplaning]

The military industrial congressional complex has now become the military industrial congressional media complex.

[nicholas9999]

getplan: well said.

[Marbles471]

Demand an investigation?! By WHOM!?!? WHO, I ask you, would be doing the investigation?! The worthless Democrats? HA!!!

God. I thought I was past the point of getting angry anymore. I've just become so numb from the neverending outrageousness over the last 8 years. But seeing this just brings it out again. I don't think there's there's anyone we can trust to "investigate" any of this. EVERYONE is compromised. No one is really interested in digging deep.

I'm very pessimistic, I'm afraid.

[timg455]

Let's just kill them all, then its the only way to solve this.

[Marbles471]

Sometimes I envy people who believe in solving conflicts with violence. Their lives must be so much simpler...

[yt5454]

"Sometimes I envy people who believe in solving conflicts with violence. Their lives must be so much simpler..."

Just like believing in religion.

Same people, too.

[timg455]

If there are no people to have a conflict with there can be no conflict. KISS philosophy.

[cadhamjer]

"The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses."

DOCTOR ALBERT EINSTEIN (Nobel Laureate and refugee from Nazi fascism. 1879-1955)

[cadhamjer]

"You could get a journalist cheaper than a good call girl, for a couple hundred dollars a month."

PHILIP GRAHAM (editor of the Washington Post quoting his CIA operative source as he discussed the availability and prices of journalists willing to peddle CIA propaganda and cover stories. Quote 1991)

[putittogether]

Just like Hitler did in 1938, with great success I might ad. this men are the true TRADERS to the nation. But you will not see it on the nightly PROPAGANDA broadcast to the nation. So sad Americans dont even know they are no longer Americans.

[herbalvegas]

Anyone in the know should basically 'write off' the mainstream press by now... the corporate press are whores of the plutocrats and the puppet masters...

[uhrichsj]

I find it troubling that this story hasn't made waves. Please, everybody tell everybody to go to freepress and help pressure congress to investigate this.

[TheWiseCommenter]

Don Sheppard, 00:21 "I feel no pressure whatsoever to do anything other than to prevent my honest opinions about what's going on..."

Prevent? PREVENT?? Did you mean "present"!?!?! TALK ABOUT A FREUDIAN SLIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Montagraph]

Great video! Where the hell is O'reilly, Hannity now? "Crickets........"

[SCX2k]

it doesnt load -.-

mean

[godot73]

If a secret government program to propagandize Americans isn't news, I don't know what is...

Don't forget: your taxpayer money paid for this illegal propaganda campaign!

[WindHarps]

Keyword: "Illegal." This Covert Propaganda (so intense one would think a coup had taken place) is illegal. Once again, what would it take for our members of Congress to Stand Up? It has reached such a point of disgrace that if someone sent in a tape (from hidden camera) which showed certain members of the administration planning the Stand Down on 9/11, it would not be a surprise to see them just cower in fear that if they said anything their Patriotism might be challenged.

[linuxluver]

Members of Congress are on a short leash. They serve 2 year terms and the vast majority are beholden to small groups of wealthy folk who fund their campaigns. Rather than keep them accountable as intended, the 2 year term is a recipe for corruption.

[nicholas9999]

linux: Soo true!! The gov't is pretty much owned by the monied interests. A really vigorous challenge to this crap and all its tangled web of military, defense contracter, high-level admin people is I guess too much for one Congressmember to consider, and perhaps even a coalition of them. I think they are afraid that there would be some possibility they could lose their incumbencies over a challange to it.

[linuxluver]

Any 10 House reps could challenge it all day every day and get exactly nowhere. The dead weight the military-industrial complex squats on the heart of American democracy like a 900 lb gorilla. It would take a serious effort by thinking voters to turn the tide. But too many voters have been rendered dribbling idiots by the TV. Democrayc will return to America when the TVs are turned off and people resume thinking. In other words: no time soon.

[nicholas9999]

linux: I don't agree that our elected reps are as powerless as you do, I suppose. MIC folks are funded by our tax dollars. However, I agree that tv rots the brain, and perhaps eventually people will read blogs and watch youtube or some youtube-like news feeds on a tv-like monitor in their den. We can only hope.

[linuxluver]

I didn't say they were powerless. Far from it. But they won't be using their power to bite the hands that fed them: the MIC and any other wealthy seekers of influence. Did you know that more than 98% of House incumbents are re-elected every two years? Ever wonder why that is?

[nicholas9999]

linux: "Any 10 House reps could challenge it all day every day and get exactly nowhere." - from that statement, I assumed you meant they were powerless. However, I didn't mean to say it would be easy to change the dynamic, it wouldn't be. However, in essence, it amounts to convincing an elected rep that if he doesn't stand up to his masters, YOU will end his incumbency. All it would really take is one successful video to go viral or one or more celebs to take it public.

[nicholas9999]

linux (2): By "it" I mean the notion that it is the gov't's duty to present an adversarial stance to the corporate interests. It is like a basic concept that needs to get out there. People already know this (or many do) - it's just a matter of having it become a focus of a few million people all at once. Not impossible.

[linuxluver]

I agree. It is possible. But also scary....and people will turn on the TV to find out more and be reassured and pacified by the propaganda. That may sound weird, but I've seen it work again and again. My own mother will be outraged by something, then turn on the tube, here some reassuring vague crap about how wonderful everything is.....and lose her outrage and with it her motivation to do anything.

[nicholas9999]

linux: Yes, I realize there are many obstacles to an enlivened and knowledgeable electorate, but I contend that, with enough inoculation, it might be possible to prep them for the sorts of reassurances that you're talking about. Showing again and again from blogs and channels like Al Jazeera, that they're being fed biased news, would help create some resistance, maybe enough to engage in collective action, given enough time.

[linuxluver]

My mother doesn't believe what I tell her if CNN says something else. It doesn't matter even if I was there and saw the event myself. You wouldn't inoculate once. You'd have to do it every time they watched the news. They (people) are conditioned, habituated to accepting whatever the media says. I could bore you with personal examples, having lead campaigns the media reported, but will spare you. :-)

[nicholas9999]

linux: I'm sure you have seen a lot, but I have experimental data from social psychological research (but will spare you). More importantly, you bring up a good point - if something is to challenge the evening news, it's gotta be credible. Over time, people gotta come to believe that certain voices from the blogosphere are reliable enough to provide that inoculation against whatever mainstream drivel the evening news is spouting. Lol, clearly your mom is not sure whether to believe YOU !!

[linuxluver]

We seem to agree. It is about credibility. You underestimate, perhaps, the automatic authority vested in the mainstream media by the general public. It doesn't matter that you can clearly demonstrate they aren't telling the whole story or even the right story. Your own reaction to my example relating to my mother is EXACTLY the reaction to be expected from anyone. You'll see it, too, if you ever find yourself in the same position.

[nicholas9999]

linux: I'm trying to say that you might be inadvertently tarring the general public with your experiences with mom, but I won't push that because, well, I could be wrong about that. But let me put it this way - Cafferty gets it wrong sometimes, but he has his ear to the blogosphere, and he gives it some credence. I think the whole Obama thing is giving people pause, letting people know that there are new forces, new info out there. I'm hopeful (but I could be wrong! We'll see!!).

[yt5454]

"what would it take for our members of Congress to Stand Up?"

When you give them as much money as the corporations do, they'll start caring what you think. Until then, forget it.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: Well, they should be given better salaries, but I think the people have the power of the vote. That still counts for something.

[yt5454]

"they should be given better salaries"

First, they get great salary and benefits already.

Second, that would make no difference in their behavior, because corporations pay them to make laws for their benefit, while we pay their salaries no matter what they do.

No, that won't do at all.

[nicholas9999]

yt4545: Actually, we pay them chump change, which amounts to putting a for sale sign on the congress. Their pay needs to be more comparable to the compensation of those in the corporate sector. Not too smart to underpay your employees.

[yt5454]

I'd guess their pay puts them at about the 99th percentile. And that's not even including extremely generous benefits and pensions.

Again, how much we pay them doesn't matter, because they get that no matter what. Corps pay them for performance, so they will perform to the corporations' liking.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: They make about 170 for rank and file member of either house, up to 220 approx for pelosi. That's ridiculously low, percentile doesn't really matter - they socialize with, and compare themselves to, movers and shakers at the highest levels. How much we pay absolutely DOES matter because it reduces the temptation. I doubt you have good evidence that corporations pay them directly - corp influence is more subtle than that, it involves threatening their incumbencies.

[yt5454]

"How much we pay absolutely DOES matter because it reduces the temptation."

No, for the reason I already gave.

"I doubt you have good evidence that corporations pay them directly"

Of course not. Much too obvious. Think free trips, free use of resources, stock tips, jobs for relatives, buckets of campaign cash.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: "No, for the reason I already gave." - You're suggesting that, e.g., in the corp world, it doesn't matter what I pay a worker because it doesn't go up or down based on performance. That is patently false, and congresspersons respond in the same way to being underpaid.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: "Of course not. Much too obvious. Think free trips, free use of resources, stock tips, jobs for relatives, buckets of campaign cash." Sure, but each one of these carries its own risks, and its own utility. Higher salaries reduce the tendency to accept these, and some of them can be more effectively cut off than others. If laws are clear and enforceable, and carry the penalty of lossing your incumbency, they can be eliminated or severely reduced. Pay well, punish gifts.

[yt5454]

"Higher salaries reduce the tendency to accept these"

No, they don't. You're operating under the assumption that if politicians have a large enough salary, they can't be bribed with more money. That is an extremely naive notion. There will never have "enough" money.

"If laws are clear and enforceable, and carry the penalty of lossing your incumbency"

Clearly you have forgotten who makes the laws.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: Here we go again. "They will never have enough money." No one ever has enough money of course, but higher salaries are historically effective in reducing the problems that come with not paying parity. This is standard human resources stuff. "Clearly you have forgotten who makes the laws." I haven't forgotten anything, but yours us a counsel of despair in which everyone is dishonest, there is no hope, etc. Please don't bother responding.

[yt5454]

"This is standard human resources stuff."

Politics is NOT a standard employment situation.

I'll respond when I feel like it, and not when I don't.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: Political office is a job. You go to work every day, you get paid, you craft legislation or execute public policy. People try to influence you, you let them, you don't let them. Generally people in those offices work hard and try to earn their keep. It's a job, man. Lol, no matter what you say back, I'm ignoring you, so bah humbug or something, bye.

[yt5454]

"I think the people have the power of the vote. That still counts for something."

Ha! Wishful thinking.

No, your vote counts for almost nothing. Even if many voters pay attention to what the politician does, a much larger number do not, and rely on the likes of Fox News to tell them. You know how that turns out. That's why nine times out of ten, the worse of the two candidates gets elected.

And even if a majority of voters do recognize a crook when they see one, there's always Diebold.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: The votes are actually what get people elected. You don't know who people are paying attention to, nor do you know whether those who are elected are worse than the alternatives. There's no evidence that Diebold has committed any frauds. Cynical views are counsels of despair. American representative democracy remains the best system.

[yt5454]

"The votes are actually what get people elected."

First, the majority of people are sheep, and vote for whomever they are told to vote for most often, by the most authoritative figures, and using the most emotional language. Of course! Why else do you think campaigns cost so much?? Duh!

People who do think are vastly outnumbered, and overpowered by, those who do not.

In any case, there's this:

Second, it doesn't matter who votes. What matters is who counts the votes. (Stalin said that.)

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: In fact, voters are given a bum rap, as many of those elected are reasonably well-chosen by people who care. Campaigns cost a lot because of TV advertising, which is why we need better laws governing contributions, etc. But people also look at ratings and info provided by watchdog groups. Local and state media outlets are often fairly responsible in providing good info about candidates. There's no evidence of massive voter fraud.

[yt5454]

"voters are given a bum rap"

Oh no they're not. Bush got in TWICE. So did Reagan. So did Nixon. In each case, it was obvious before their first election that they were no damn good. The voters let them in anyway, except in the case of Bush, when they let the election get close enough to be stolen.

[yt5454]

"many of those elected are reasonably well-chosen by people who care"

Yes, if you include local and state governments across the country, there are probably dozens of honest, competent politicians.

"There's no evidence of massive voter fraud."

It doesn't have to be massive; it only has to be targeted. And there's plenty of evidence of that.

[yt5454]

I think we face SERIOUS electoral and governmental problems in this country, bad enough even to threaten the survival of the USA as a great nation.

Failure to recognize or admit the existence of problems prevents one from taking steps to fix them. And pollyanna attitudes like yours make things worse.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: I agree the problems are serious. Mainly, I believe the growth of lobbying and influence of corporate and MIC interests in the gov't both legis and exec have had a very bad effect. And that influence appears to be driving policy decisions. Yes, I agree it's looking bad. But people know something is very wrong. It's a matter of what to do and whom to rely upon - people are seeking new leadership, it's why Obama is doing as well as he is doing. Is he "the solution"? I doubt it.

[yt5454]

"the growth of lobbying and influence of corporate and MIC interests in the gov't both legis and exec have had a very bad effect"

Finally, something we can agree on.

"people know something is very wrong"

Some do. I doubt that even 20% of the population realizes how bad things really are.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: (2) He may not be "the solution," but he's a signal that people are seeking one. It's a good sign, even if Obama falls short. More importantly, the excitement over Obama I believe will translate into a new view of local and statewide politics. Look, it's not pollyanna to say that people are really really ready for something to change.

[yt5454]

"If a secret government program to propagandize Americans isn't news, I don't know what is..."

No, it's not news. It's been perfectly obvious for years.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: This particular program was certainly not perfectly obvious. To my knowledge, such a program has not existed in the past.

[yt5454]

"This particular program was certainly not perfectly obvious."

The general thread has been obvious for some time.

"To my knowledge, such a program has not existed in the past."

To your knowledge, this one didn't exist either, until two days ago.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: "The general thread has been obvious for some time" - And did you tell all your neighbors and put up a video about it prior to NY Times printing its story? General threads are easy, it is the precise nature of events that are the hardest to predict! Everything is obvious after an event has occurred. "To your knowledge, this one didn't exist either, until two days ago" You meant of course, to OUR knowledge, lol. Excessive cynicism is just as unrealistic as excessive optimism.

[yt5454]

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who do not have it."

- George Bernard Shaw

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: Your GB Shaw quote really doesn't address a valid point I'm making. One's attributions for others' behaviors and one's predictions can be distorted by one's preconceived ideas about human nature, one's own misanthropy, etc. By distortion, I mean your powers of accurate observation are reduced. I argue a balanced worldview is most useful.

[yt5454]

So? Just because a statement can be wrong doesn't mean it is.

And my worldview is more balanced than most people's. It's more reasoned, for one. It's also more accurate.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: You have continually expressed the view that there is no hope, that our representative democracy has no hope of working, that there are no honest politicians who are actually working to better the American situation, that voters (esp. younger ones) can't become better educated, and I could go on. Yours is not an accurate view - I do psych research - you're not even close to understanding the desire among people for change and hope - you have a distorted view of human nature. Good luck.

[yt5454]

Yes, just what the world needs - another 20-year-old "expert" with all the answers.

Go beat your head against the wall for a few decades, then come back and tell me how wonderful human nature is.

[nicholas9999]

yt5454: Actually, hope is an essential necessity of the human condition, google  taylor and brown 88, positive illusions . . . The world moves forward on the unrealistic expectations of human beings. business, medicine, research, sending men to the moon, none of it happens without unrealistic hope. Seriously, good luck on the whole hope thing. google depressive realism, a little unrealistic hope is good for ya'.

[yt5454]

I DO hope. But I don't expect.

Decades of watching the stupidity of the electorate has made me dis-illusioned.

I won't say that things can't change. But I think it's more likely than not that conservatives will bring the US to its knees, economically speaking. And when that happens, it will be all over but the shouting. Third world here we come.

[yt5454]

"google depressive realism"

I don't have a psych degree, but I know that pessimistic people have a more accurate perception of life.

I also know that having a positive attitude can encourage you to accomplish things that you might not have thought possible.

That may at first glance seem contradictory, but in my experience, both are true. That's life.