Nassim Taleb Angry At Obama's and Geithner's Lies and Games

[nokia3210fuck]

He is smart but still not smart enough to see the root cause of the problem.

The banking system has one big mistake which is compound interest.

Because of compound interest money assets grow with accelerating speed, so do debts.

This exponential growth of debts leads to accelerating debited interest and therefore exponential growth of debts.

These debts can never be paid back and therefore periodic crashes are inevitable.

[Kurtlane]

What Taleb is proposing is not socialism. Not at all. It is still very much within capitalism.

For the first time in this crisis, I hear something that makes sense.

[SuperZubz]

If you read 'Black Swan', he's pretty much got is sussed and offers a sound analysis of the current economic crises as well as other matters. 'We socialise loss, but we privatise profit.'

[randy00007]

do us a favor.... Stay in Lebanon and try to fix your home country....

[SuperZubz]

@randy00007 Yes, and that would apply equally to all the big mouth Americans who are in other people's homelands trying to 'fix' things for them. It works both ways.

[ChannelMitchy13]

@SuperZubz Are there American's in your homeland?

[SuperZubz]

@ChannelMitchy13 We are often referred to as the 51st State Of America. :) 

[K5KJ]

The idea that bad loans to poor people was the basis for the collapse is a Red Herring. There are not enough poor people in the U.S. to account for the losses. Do the math.

[9Iock]

As IF this crap happened overnight! Stop this Left vs Right CRAP, is there ANYONE here old enough that has watched this circus with there own eyes the last 20-30 or 40 years? Oh if that don't work we can vote for the other guys,vote for the other guys,vote for the other guys, STOP playing the Republicrats game! Albert Einstein

(Insanity): doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

This Left/Right bickering is annoying, get more real, Shit or get off the pot!

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

Well, without the government creating a way to encourage Wall Street to do what they do, it will never stop which is why WALL STREET is in the democrats pockets dope. STOP VOTING DEMOCRAT and everything gets better. Vote Ron Paul- tea party backed candidates ONLY and several years from now we MIGHT not be a 3rd world country. Paranoid my ass! EVERY prediction I have made has came 100% true. Deal with it. See IDIOTS4OBAMA COM for the evidence.

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

How about everyone stop voting for democrats and RINOs. Support Bachman, Paul, Paul Jr, Demint, West, Angle etc..and everything will get better.

[spineadjuster13]

@IdiotsForObamaCom I'll give you Paul, Paul Jr and Demint but West is a career politician just like Colin Powell, you dont get to be a colonel in the army if youre not a "yes man" he's pro war.

Bachman and Angle, they say some good things but dont really dont seem to have a clue

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

Colin Powell always was a tool bag. Alan West is a conservative, not a libertarian. I will take a conservative over a libertarian, and libertarian and anyone else over a democrat including a communist (at least theyre honest about it) BUT Bachmann and Angle are good people. I am in favor of abolishing the dept of education from top to bottom. Its a failing $ pit. Private schools are cheaper and less expensive. Harry Reid stole that election with voter fraud. We need more like Angle.

[pretorious700]

@IdiotsForObamaCom "Conservatives" are the biggest hypocrites of all, even worse than "liberals". At least liberals are up front with their agenda, conservatives want military expansion AND domestic fiscal austerity. Clowns.

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

Look little girl, I don't argue with clueless indoctrinated jackasses with pathetic talking points so get off my stick. You want some liberal hypocrisy? Show me what you got- and I'l show you all my examples- IDIOTS4OBAMA COM /liberal hypocrisy

Now- Spineadjuster, Allen West is far from Colin Powell, and while he may be pro-war, he didnt start the war, he did his job. He seen the dangers of Islam and there is a danger and we should fight it and stop the Islamization of America you idiot.

[pretorious700]

@IdiotsForObamaCom angry and stupid-quite the combination, chuckles

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

People who despise capitalism are mishuided retards and no less. I love how socialism has failed everywhere and these morons believe more people will work more and harder to support lazy bums. Liberalsim has also failed- look at Atlanta yesterday! Look at foreclosures because the govt thought everyone should have a home. Look at unemployment and the debt. LIBERALISM!! Idiots..

[atlien991]

@IdiotsForObamaCom Figure out how to spell misguided then we'll get around to discussing how little you understand about economics.

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

it was a mistake- i have big fingers, ask your mother, she will tell you ya trashbag

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

Sorry- I have big fingers..Just ask your filthy mother....fag

[simransinghgill]

@atlien991

how petty are you

[TheHibbitydibbity]

@atlien991 Not really trying to take sides here, but it's kind of petty to attack a misspelled word rather than counter the actual content of the comment.

[jjrglobal]

@atlien991

Thats your argument, a typo???

[slovakmath]

@jjrglobal why would he even need to respond to such an absurd comment as "idiots". i cant even begin to tell you how many fallacies and flaws of logic are being used in "Idiots" comment.

[yoyuepz]

@atlien991 well socialism doesnt work does it? :P

[atlien991]

@yoyuepz No one i know has ever lived under it so how would I know. As for capitalism, that I can attest to.

[yoyuepz]

@atlien991 uk is more socialist, free health care, free pension.. you want to go to china/india where nothing is free and its Pay then treatment. I think you take things for granted.

[psynema]

@IdiotsForObamaCom

The Federal Reserve is a PRIVATIZED bank MONOPOLY taking currency OUT OF GOV'T HANDS. And normal tax payers give welfare to finance corporations...which is FEUDALIST, CORPORATIST, and NATIONAL SOCIALISM.

That's all you need to know...dear GOP, fuck off our gov't.

[ngonea]

@IdiotsForObamaCom - it''s not liberalism, it's greedy self centered people on wall

street and the Gov crocks in bed with them...we have not had full employment since 1945 according to Dr Paul Craig Roberts, truth is we have not had full employment since slavery! Now we are all enslaved...and until you do right by all the people, the chickens will always come home to roost! Universal Law....

[IdiotsForObamaCom]

It is liberalism. It is barney frank and Fannie/Freddie..It is Obama and his czars. It is Pelois and her anti-constitution/backroom bribes and ignorance. It is Harry Reid threatening our democracy with voter fraud. It IS liberalism LOOK AT WHAT IT HAS DONE TO CALIFORNIA! It is cap and trade by Barbara Boxer (thank the republicans for stopping that) It is liberalism in our schools and universities that have produced the DUMBEST generation of libtards since the 60's! Get real.

[1982Lennon]

@IdiotsForObamaCom as terrible as Obama is, you're worse... we don't have capitalism anymore genius

[elimar008]

this debt to equity swap is discussed by Marty Armstrong in his letters from the hole,not Nassims idea, sorry

[atlien991]

@elimar008 Nassim isn't flaunting a new idea here. Many have cited the problems. He's just something of a celebrity in economic theory circles.

[elimar008]

@atlien991 you are right

i think he is more playing the big shot , i am lebanese, i know how THEY think

[BAOR5860]

@elimar008 so what if it isn't his idea it doesn't change anything.

[kifn2]

the problem i see with taleb is that he takes for granted that some belligerent "someone" can make something happen and that it will not cause other nasty effects. he advocates that this or that needs to be done, e.g. get rid of these people or take control of that institution. the fact is that we are human beings who will make individual and collective mistakes. we must be allowed to make them, or we regress to the dark ages.

[atlien991]

@kifn2 Some of these 'mistakes' involve massive unnecessary suffering and death. Must those so-called mistakes be 'allowed' as well?

I must say that when I hear this kind of logic deployed it makes me cringe. When a regular person does something illegal, something wrong, the masses often have to be restrained from killing him (especially if he is Black).

When the rich do so much damage, we need to allow these things to happen....lest we return to the dark?

Hmm...

[kifn2]

@atlien991 i believe that people must be allowed to make mistake and like taleb, own the consequences. Suffering is part of life. More evil has been done by the good-intentioned people trying to eliminate suffering than anything else. People need to own their mistakes and be allowed to fail. The market should be allowed to punish and reward. Also, the race card has been overplayed.

[atlien991]

@kifn2 The thing that to me seems overplayed is the old canard that the most pain has been brought about by the 'well-intentioned'. This is usually deployed to malign progressives and those on the left but every ideology, left or right, claims to offer some kind of panacea. The charge is now so vague and broad it means nothing.

The problem is that the rich, let's be more specific than 'people', the rich don't own their mistakes. They walk away. The financial meltdown. The BP oil disaster.

[triforcelink]

@atlien991 the rich don't own their mistakes? are you serious? who are the ones who were buying houses which they could not afford in the first place? BP's reputation has been crushed and the company is getting closer to bankruptcy day by day. This is not about being rich or poor, its a problem of ignorance, a mass of 'poor' people can do just as much damage if not more, than a rich person with equivalent financial wealth,

[atlien991]

@triforcelink There is a lot wrong with your comment but I'll only address the most easy incorrect piece to speak to.

A mass of poor people making financial errors (which is how you apparently view victims of swindlers) still doesn't act with the coherent and organized force of one or two rich people with their wealth. The organized (and intentional) destruction will be worse.

[triforcelink]

@atlien991 so where is the problem in the first half of my comment?

[Bobsbag]

@triforcelink Isn't it the banks that are buying the houses when they give someone a mortgage with near 0% down payments?

[atlien991]

@kifn2 As for the so-called race card, where has this 'card' actually gotten any race? No race besides the so-called 'white' race has benefited. The actual race card is the denial card. But whatever. This problem we are looking at of this society isn't going to be settled by letting the 'market' figure it out. Where has the market gotten us so far?

But of course you might say the market isn't allowed to work....

[takforalt]

really good interview. Thank you bloomberg.

[IMD]

We live in a complex system that delivers extreme deviations. Current risk management and economic analyses methods fail us in such a system because of low predictability. What should we do in such an environment? At the IMD OWP 2010, Nassim Nicholas Taleb will present simple rules (lower leverage, less reliance on deficit spending, less mathematical risk management) for a black swan robust economic system.

[MrZarzim]

the corrupted banking system is making wars, enslaves people, brainwashes it owns population, do to what they are told (americans: war in Iraq and Afghanistan). This system is not good to our planet,. and we are destroying it slowly, though I do not believe in GLOBAL WARMING, also a scheme from the states! But however, the system is not based on recyckling and recovery. It's about making rich people rich, and poor people poor! NEW WORLD ORDER IS UPON US! TRUS ME GUYS, WAKE THE FUCK UP MAN!

[MrZarzim]

the corrupted banking system is making wars, enslaves people, brainwashes it owns population, do to what they are told (americans: war in Iraq and Afghanistan). This system is not good to our planet,. and we are destroying it slowly, though I do not believe in GLOBAL WARMING, also a scheme from the states! But however, the system is not based on recyckling and recovery. It's about making rich people rich, and poor people poor! NEW WORLD ORDER IS UPON US! TRUS ME GUYS, WAKE THE FUCK UP MAN!

[MyDotdotdot]

This guy is kinda like the Paris Hilton of Finance...

all talk ...no walk.... he got lucky on the crisis (for once in his life) and then goes on like a monkey around TV Stations talking about how he won the lottery....Will he stand the test of time? Monkey's come and monkey's go...Jim Cramer at least is entertaining...this guy is delusional.... and consistently crap. I wonder when he will make money again....keep buying those "derrivatives" lottery tickets till one is in the money.

[enterthekitchen]

are you freaking kidding me? This post is a great example of the ignorence that plagues our society.

[masrurkhan]

i wonder if this guy met professor steve keen, they both seem to have the same views

[MrRippJay]

my surname is TALEB to !!! this is my father? jauajauajauaj

[UBER069]

he called it "socializing the losses, privatizing the gains" - brilliant.

[atlien991]

That is what capitalism does in every big industry. No different in the financial sector.

[containsmultitudes]

Actually that's what Corporatism does.

[snakecharmer133]

Capitalism as such is no more then a play of words, the real implementation of capitalism is a plutocracy. People are just to stupid to understand that what we are seeing now is the effects of what capitalism produce.

Capitalism has not failed, it is thriving and making the powerful (capitalists) richer while the non-rich have to hand over their wealth.

Just to answer your question, you are stupid and do not understand the meaning of the word capitalism so you may suffer!

[atlien991]

Ditto. Capitalism is doing what it does. People don't understand capitalism so the think it's messing up temporarily.

[TodorNN]

@atlien991 Well,happily enough,we ,the non-understanders are so lucky to have esoteric intellectual colossuses like you to guide us into building a carefully planned ,compassionate, tolerant ,humanly orientated society,in which people will work less and get more,gay-marry and preserve the white wales for the generations ahead.The human race was so close in succeeding in this quest by abolishing private property in 20th century!Just another try -and we'll do it,i am sure of it, Enlightener !

[atlien991]

@TodorNN Glad you're getting on board with my platform. I just need your credit card number...

[TodorNN]

@atlien991 Sense of humor?!Well,that is a nice surprise :D

[atlien991]

If Taleb wasn't a deranged capitalist himself, I could really get behind him. His critiques make a lot of sense.

[toddolavi]

private profits

socialized losses.

Unreal.

[TruthCracker]

debtinterest..... if you are attempting satire its beyond you.  if your not I afraid. You would be to if you could understand. If your deliberately inflaming the situation for fun you need to get out more. And not to iraq. in any capacity.

[atlien991]

There is no way to jump the politics. Capitalism isn't just an economic system, it is a political system.

And it has proved to not work. That is the part Nassim isn't ready to accept yet. He, like other capitalists, think that there is some, yet to be realized way, to politically restrain the billionaire capitalists who prove time and again to own not only their companies but they own the political system as well.

[GrossMisstatement]

Capitalism is an economic system, and has proven to work extremely well. It is only when government is permitted to exercise control over the free market that problems have arisen - witness the current financial mess. The Fed is not a free market - capitalist - entity, it is just the opposite. It was the Fed, and the politicians who corrupted the system, all for the love of money. The real problem with money is it is invisible. Democracy = Money. Get your politicians out of the market!

[debtinterest]

hahahahahaah~~ another crack pot Austrian school freak.. hahahaha~~~~

[GrossMisstatement]

Your command of economics is second only to your command of English.

[debtinterest]

typical moronic answer by Austrian school freaks hahahahaha~~~

[ornelas3830]

Speak immaturely, with ad hominem attacks, to your adversarial debater and end it with a "hahahahahah." Never mind debating with facts and observable economic data supported by sound economic theory. Continue to speak so eloquently about the status of our economy and how wrong Austrian are and you'll soon have all of us believing you.

[debtinterest]

what an idiot hahaha~~ using all that words to make one point hahahahaha~~ typical dumbass who think he is so smart~~~ ahahahah~~ using lots of words do not make you sound any smart~ hahahaha~~~ dumb stupid animal~~ hahahaah people like you should go to Iraq and get killed by suicide bomber~ hahahaahah~~~

[longspear584]

The current system is NOT capitalism. It is "Financial Capitalism". more akin to "Corporatism". This is NOT capitalism.

[GrossMisstatement]

Of course the "current system" is not pure capitalism. But your distinction between a "Financial Capitalism" and Capitalism is mere semantics, longspear. Capitalism is a financial / economic system and is not practised anywhere in a generic sense since 1913. If you mean to associate capitalism with some political agenda, then you have fallen into the same systems-trap the Marxists can't seem to see past. So have fun with your silly arguments. But don't bother me with them.

[longspear584]

Capitalism is intended to be a system of production. I am talking here about it from a purely social perspective of its intended function. When reference is made to "Financial capitalism" - attention should be drawn to the fact that the majority of Western economies are now dominated by their Finance industries which do not produce anything. Capital must be directed to productive industries in order for it to be Capitalism not towards the engineering of more money as profit. This is capitalism.

[atlien991]

This is comment is offensive to intelligent people. Trying to pass off the faults of this system as som e aberrant form is the exact thing some Socialists do with Stalin's starving of millions.

That wasn't socialism that was (take your pick).

Bullshit. This is capitalism with many, but not all, its warts.

[readthepaper]

Capitalism doesn't exist in the world as far as I can see. A central bank is as socialist as it gets, along with a progressive income tax, property taxes, 70,000 pages of regulations enforced by over 100 federal agencies and departments (US); wow, what a free market! Property rights are not concomitant with the State, the State can only steal from people by threatening them with violence. I hate to tell you but the US and much of the world is the antithesis of capitalism.

[atlien991]

Denying that the current system is capitalism by arguing that there are regulations isn't a persuasive point.

Can it then be said that there is no communism until every acre of land no longer has a private owner?

The all or nothing argument is just a distraction from capitalisms mounting failures.

[readthepaper]

The US follows the ten planks of communism to varying degrees. While there is not a total abolition of private property, you have to pay to simply own property you have fully paid for, the property is zoned, and regulations direct the use of the property. Anybody who wasn't asleep from 1913 (especially the 1930s) to the current time would realize the US is fascist with some socialist sectors of its economy. The government stealing half of your income is not capitalism.

[atlien991]

If a majority of people worked for state owned business you'd have the beginning of an argument.

A system of private property where more 90% of the population works for other private citizens and you say this isn't capitalism.

And if the firm employs less than 500 employees it doesn't have to report its hiring practices so discrimination regulations are nullified by that legal req't.

Fascism is the marriage between the corporate and the state. We do have that. A few individuals run the USA.

[readthepaper]

The property isn't "private" in a sense that you cannot own it without paying the State and you cannot utilize it in manners the State deems unlawful. That number is far less than 90% by the way. Don't federal employees outnumber manufacturing jobs 2:1 currently? You agree with me that the US is fascist but then go on to claim it's capitalism; this makes no sense.  It's fascist, not capitalist. Capitalism is private ownership of means of production and freedom of exchange.

[Waszma]

@readthepaper Wow...I'll never look at property tax the same way again! Lol, you're assessment (no pun intended) is right on.

[readthepaper]

The people that claim that the US and the greater part of the world is "capitalist" are the same idiots who think Milton Friedman was a "free marketeer". The fact of the matter is that these same people are completely ignorant of the Austrian School and have probably never even read an article let alone a book by anybody from this school of thought.

[TodorNN]

@atlien991 My friend,have you left your sense of proportion at home?The public sector in mixed market economies is incomparable to the private property allowance in communist regimes.Simply because it is by far a bigger number,a fraction.Both mathematically and in terms of sociological significance.And by writing that I am not denying capitalism mountains of failure,by no means.Maybe I am just willing to claim that some mountains are higher than others.:D:D

[searles7]

Nassim is brilliant. His book, the Black Swan, a masterpiece. But as usual, emotions prevail. He missed one point. All intelligent people want a system overhaul. The problem, as Geithner recently said is that most of this requires legislation, a painful process. It's painful because of a conservative element that cares only for its own survival and aims to derail anything Obama is tries to do. The only alternative is to patch. If Nassim has a way to jump the politics he should spit it out.

[bigbadbyrnes]

This guy is by far, by far, the clearest thjnker on this subject alive today. The Black Swan should be standard reading for everyone in school and everyone involved in economics. These ideas really should be discussed more because we're heading down the same path and even if things patch up ok for a time, it could all end in the end of the west as we know it.

[christo930]

I think a better analogy would be that instead of patching holes in the rotting hull, they are simply trying to run the pumps faster than the leaks are coming in. Just bailing water fast enough to keep the boat afloat. Problem is, they aren't using the time bought by this to sail the ship into port, instead they are heading straight into the iceberg fields.

[MrFrankBullitt]

Nassim would be my chief economic advisor.

[mustang607]

A basic axiom: Take money away from people who succeed and give some of it to people who fail and you get less people who succeed and more people who fail.

I'll let you decide why they want to do this.

[atlien991]

I feel you on hard assets but I'm a little perplexed as to how silver and gold actually mean anything. Can't eat it or call anyone with it or farm with it. Or do anything with it except restart another financial system of speculation

[mustang607]

I suspect five years from now, everyone will understand why gold is more valuable than paper (dollars.)

[JohnLeeMD]

I think, he is just banking on the fact that through history (I'm guessing thousand years or whenever gold/silver was discovered & minted), gold & silver have been exchanged as money. You can say it's nothing (i.e. can't eat, can't do this or that), but the fact is that it has basically *always* been prized by human society. There isn't much else that you can think of that would fit that bill... I suppose buying livestock (since it always has been valued/traded, etc.) but then you need a farm.

[readthepaper]

Value is subjective. Gold and silver have "value" because people prefer them over other assets. Whether or not you comprehend or accept this is irrelevant.

[30percentplusreturns]

What is happening now is that Americans are all taking their money out of banks and buying hard assets. People arent stupid. They are even selling bonds. I took all my money out of my bank and bought silver bullion. Its stored in my closet. I dont trust any bank. Screw them all

[30percentplusreturns]

The only way out of this mess is a depression. There is no avoiding it. Buy silver bullion and gold mining stocks. Its the only way youll make money. The natural gas market has already discounted a depression!!!

[dennisl2008]

Between him and Peter Schiff, be very very concerned about the Economy--it's headed for disaster-worse than any 9/11 effect we could imagine.

[cytuber]

It is surreal. (Thanks for posting)

[atlien991]

No. He is angry.

[akahokakou]

The content is quite rational but the delivery is not as articulate as I have seen from him before. He is nervous?