@JussiPaul No, but there are some similarities. However, Tom really knew the things in the Melocchi method to watch out for; i.e. depressed larynx etc. Tom's teaching was more comprehensive.
@JussiPaul Actually, I have a student who also teaches. The other day her husband came in while she was playing Del Monaco. He has heard many of my students often. He remarked, "wow, X sounds great". She told him, "it is Del Monaco". He said it sounded just like one of my students. And this student is still young and training.
I studied with Elio Gennari student of Melocchi...he built the biggest and most awesome voices in the Mid West... for a tremendous top you have to do the Melocchi exercises.....I have all the exercises if anyone still wants an unbeatable top...let me know...
@mojopum I do have more of his lesson. You know, the technique was certainly better than most today, but when taught by Melocchi himself and not the off shoots. It still had things to watch out for; i.e. a depressed larynx etc. But he had many things right. Women don't sing chest dominant the way men do, but keeping the larynx in the low, mid low range is right.
I apologize for the confusion. I have studied at the Uselman/Klein vocal studios and spent 15 years training Joe Klein. We made it one of our goals to attempt to understand how the damn thing works! A lifetime project yes? This post was a real gem, a close look into how Maestro Melocchi worked with his students. Thank you again, and again apologies for the confusion.
Thank you for posting! Your assumption is that the only way to lengthen the cords is with the set of infra-hyoid muscles. The action of those muscles will only lengthen the cords as they depress the hyoid bone down on to the front of the thyroid cartilage. The way to lengthen the cords is by the use of the cricothyroid muscles; this will pivot the thyroid cartilage at the articular facet on the cricoid. The availability of the pharyngeal resonators is essential.
@orovalleydude Who are you referring to? Me? I NEVER would say the infrahyoid's lengthen the vocal folds in a proper production. It is the cricothryoids that do that.
It was from a joint interview with Tucker and Robert Merrill that originally appeared in OPERA NEWS, possibly a few years before Tucker passed away. It was collected in book form along with other interviews from O.N. Tucker was speaking of Verdi's OTELLO as "...a voice killer..." He cited Del Monaco's lack of legato around that time as an example. As a matter of speculation, it might have been a subjective reaction or possibly a phase that Del Monaco was going through at some point.
@legatofancier Or he could have just been envious of Del Monaco in the role of Otello which he dominated. LOL! I wish I knew which year this article was from. I have not heard Del Monaco not sing legato except for affect.
Did Melocchi teach a technique involving lowering the larynx to a very low position and holding it in a fixed position? It is my understanding (subject to correction) that Del Monaco based his technique on keepiing the larynx in such a low, fixed position. Supposedly, Corelli learned this technique, but modified it allow the larynx to move freely in the throat. Obviously, i am not maintaining that this interpretation is strictly correct. Please elucidate and clarify the matter! Thanks!
@legatofancier Melocchi did teach a technique that used a lowered larynx, but to be honest most of the great singers had a lowered larynx. That is how you get scuro. The danger in the Melocchi method - in my opinion - is taking it too far to where it becomes a "depressed larynx". Then there is inability to do dynamics and to have agility. I think Melocchi was pretty good at avoiding this, but not 100% successful and Del Monaco chose not to sing with much dynamic variance.
@MrCafiero - Thanks for your insight! I remember an interview with Richard Tucker published before his untimely death in which he said that when he had seen Del Monaco in Italy that Del Monaco had told Tucker that he couldn't sing legato any longer. Was this the result of force of habit from singing forte constantly, or the result of a "depressed larynx"? Or, is it even possible to distinguish a difference in a case like this?
@legatofancier Do you know what year that was? Del Monaco was singing pretty well legato in his last performance at 60 years old so I don't know if Tucker was talking about after Del Monaco was retired and sick. He was on dialysis.
@Bigus You really need to take your head out of your a*%. I read your comment Callas had bad technique....amazing thing is that students usually preach their teachers words......ma WHO is your teacher??? CALLAS in her prime is the epitome of opera artists.
For someone who was considered by some in Italy "the Throat wrecker" not only did this legendary teacher know exactly what he was teaching but he demonstrates it with his beautiful instrument. Truly one of my favourite videos, shame it's not so clear. Grazie
Dear Mr. Cafiero, how amazing is the audio in which Melocchi teaches Limarilli to sing properly the passaggio. There are no more Maestros like this. I'm from Argentina and I study lyric singing. It's a shame that we can't understand the indications Melocchi gives to Limarilli. The audio is so low. Do you have a more faithful register? or some other like this?
@ducedimantua He does teach correctly how to sing in the passaggio and I will tell you it is what I teach and what my teacher taught as well. Here Melocchi is telling him to find the vowel inside, keep the air flowing etc. You can hear him clearly getting him to sing more OO in the passaggion in order to "cover" correctly.
The answer is in the physiology of the larynx for voice production.
Thyroarytenoids predominate initially, then one must put the crycothyroids into action (for further adduction and tensing/thinning of the vocal folds) so access to the top can be attained. I believe in part is what the italians call "girare".This must be learned for a smooth transition.And Yes, the bigger or sizable the voice is, the more problems will be encountered.
Thanks to MrCafiero as for this video; It is of great interest for any singer, specially the bigger voice, that need to cover more in orther to ease their upper register. Pavarotti spoked widely about the "cover of the pasaggio", as well as Corelli; in other cases as Kraus , he denied that he covered his sound,due to a suffocated position of the throat. I guess it depends on your inner spaces and natural messuares;also what kind of repertoire you aboard.Thanks for sharing Bravo!!!!!
@tenorschofield But Kraus did cover whether he called it covering or not. The sound that he made was the "covered" sound. Corelli said the same about Kraus. If I cover, but call it another name than someone else, I am still doing the same thing.
@MrCafiero I guess you are rigth; but I am not sure what Kraus meant "covered sound" the same as Corelli. For me , as I understand, the covered sound is an opening of high soft palate, as well as a relaxation and space in the throat and mouth, while still projecting a bigger pressure of air to the resonance spaces in the head and chest, with the correct use of the "intercostal diaphragmatic" appoggio. Kraus meant as wrong,to place the sound in the throat as a refference to "cover the sound".
@tenorschofield "Covered" actually is a muscular switch whereby the infrahyoids and stylo muscles come into play to keep the larynx in a mid to mid low position allowing the singer to keep chest active in the high notes. This is generally done by keeping more OO in the sound as you go through the passaggio to the top. The *sound* that Kraus and Corelli and all the other old singers went for in the passggio and top caused this switch to happen. So they all "covered".
@tenorschofield This is also why the singing world and teaching world is such a mess. Different singers may have done similar sounds, but used terms differently.
@MrCafiero I totally agree with you!!!...you are 100% rigth. As well as in the idea that "different personal leanguages" even if helpful to express the "unexpressable", contribute greatly to the confusion of vocal students...me included!!!!
@bradleyjenks ROFL! I hardly think so. What are you listening to this on? Also, this guy was still "learning". This was not a performance, but a LESSON!
@MrCafiero Okay, I suppose egregiously was the wrong word. More like 'frequently'. More than half the topmost notes in the exercise is at least a little flat. More than half! That's not even when it's very high.
Del Monaco hà fatto soffrire tantissimi tenori.Limarilli aveva una bellissima voce ma cercando di coppiare lo stile di Del Monaco si é rovinato la voce.
@MrSkylark1 It isn't about how "loud" someone sings, it is about how freely someone sings. If you do it *right* - which means efficiently, with full development - it will be loud. In the best possible way, but there should also be dynamics.
@MrCafiero you are right, also in learning to free the voice, its better to sing everything forte anyway. once the voice is free you can dimenuendo like corelli and pavarotti and not lose the core sound and it stays free. i appreciate this post.
before you can sing softly beautifully,you have to be able to sing openly and freely so when you back off its healthy.corelli had the best mezza voce of any tenor practically and could diminuento on any note in his range thats more than schipa or gigli could do no offense to them. like cafiero said your voice will naturally be louder if its free,which will ultimately give you a wider range of dynamics.schipa can't even really be compared because he had a small voice and relatively poor technique
@bigus "That's more than Schipa or Gigli could do..."???? Um.... you're kinda talking about two people who did exactly that, better than almost anyone.
do you have examples? because i havent heard any and i have listened to both very extensively. keep in mind im not saying they couldn't sing softly. im talking about dimenuendoing from a forte to a piano on any note. schipa sang everything relatively softly and had a tiny voice so he isn't a very good example. also im not saying corelli was better than gigli, im saying he couldn't do what corelli could do and very few could. listen to corellis celeste aida and how he dimenuendos on the Bb
@bigus yes, I have heard many, one from Gigli that springs to mind is Le Violette, by Mozart. Lovely diminuendo. Anyway, the point is that, yes, it is hard to do, especially at the very top. But they did it all the time throughout their range and he did a handful of well-known high, hard ones during his career. And saying Schipa's voice size matters is ridiculous. Volume has nothing to do with it. Depth of voice would make more sense. But suggesting that he had poor technique!? Nonsense.
the reason i say his voice size matters, is because typically its easier to do vocal gymnastics with a lighter smaller voice like with schipa. the reason i say he had relatively poor technique is because his voice was neither as free as it could have been nor was his range as great as it probably should have been or would have been if it was freer. schipa was famous for his singing not for his voice or its beauty. he was a beautiful singer but not a great technician.
true but big voices are harder to move around and be agile, which is why you dont hear big voices doing coloratura very often.also the voice doesn't need to be lightened as it gets lighter automatically the further up the staff you go, but you cant drag the voice weight up there to the top to make it bigger sounding than it should be or you will be pushing or going flat etc because you are working against the chords trying to stretch to make the pitch.not lightenning it but allowing it to be.
@bigus Big voices are not harder to move if you get rid of constriction. Hence Callas, Tebaldi, Tetrazzini, Destinn, Ponselle, Caballe, Ruffo, Caruso, Mardones etc. The voice should not get "lighter" the further up you go. "Weight" implies constriction. If you get rid of the constriction you can sing huge on the top with ease as these old singers did. One of the worst false paradigms is to "lighten" as you go up. No way.
@MrCafiero most of the singers you mentioned i have never heard do any significant coloratura. callas had horrendous technique so ill ignore that one LOL, but as i said the voice lightens and brightens naturally the further the chords stretch, this is a physical fact.carrying weight to me implies heaviness and darkness of voice all the way up.i believe this is why singers like MDM tended to go flat up top. from trying to sound too big and hefty up there when the chord couldnt handle the pressure
@bigus WHAT? Callas had a great technique, but she LOST IT! She let it go. Listen to Ponselle sing Traviata. Or Ruffo sing largo or the duet from The Barber of Seville. Listen to Caruso's fioratura at the end of Una furtiva. The point remains that getting the constriction out of the way allows you to move quickly. Nilsson could sing queen of the night. Also, stretching the vocal folds changes the pitch, but it doesn't "lighten" the sound.
@MrCafiero also im not saying you should try to lighten the sound, it just happens, and like garcia says you do want to apply dark timbre to the upper notes to keep them mature sounding, however that still doesnt account for the fact that as the vocal fold stretch to make the pitches the sound lightens/brightens naturally. all you are doing when you apply the dark timbre is to slow down the process so you can have a more unified voice from bottom to top.
if you can show me recordings on youtube or upload the ones you have i would like to hear them because i haven't ever heard either of them do anything like what corelli does. again not saying he was better all around. gigli typically sang forte or piano and ive never heard him diminuendo on a Bb from forte to piano schipa either, he basically hoots his way through everything because his voice wasn't very powerful to begin with. and hooting is easy.also this was more accepted back then than today
@bigus There are some examples of Melocchi teaching it in the recordings I have. However, Del Monaco stayed away from it for the most part. If you listen to some recordings of him does do it, but he made the decision not to do it much. The La Forza aria shows him doing it and he does it in Carmen in the aria as well.
@MrSkylark1 the dynamical changes don't have any relation to the chiaroscuro or the mask. those are purely a technical aspec of singing and ones production. if i misunderstood you then ignore my statement. everything else i agree with.
Ho preso un paio di lezioni da Limarilli che mi spiegò la sua tecnica, appresa da Melocchi di cui aveva la massima stima. Era molto onerosa perché giungeva ad aprire il petto al fiato, attraverso una manovra innaturale di appoggio sul diaframma. Si sente la pesantezza dell'emissione basata sull''ampiezza zigomatica. Preferisco aprire il petto collegato alla maschera, con la voce acuta di testa, in modo più morbido e naturale. Non capisco perché si debba soffiare spingendo in fuori la pancia.
@sincrotto hai perfettamente ragione,nessuno ricorda più quello che diceva Mario Del Monaco:io canto con le sopraciglia perchè cantava alto in maschera.
ну, это самая сложная гласная....я под ней слышу гласную у....ученик поёт полным своим капиталом....этот звук и школа очень мне близки....педагог настроил голос ученика как скрипку или виолончель, чтоб взять правильно верхнюю ноту....
@bajobaritonoAH What do you mean by "back"? Just making sure. The biggest resonator in the voice is the pharyngeal cavity, making up for 97%+ of total resonance. Then there is some from the mouth too. And the pharyngeal cavity is below the uvula. So in that since "back" is right. Melocchi was not into placement forward. Deep inside with the vowels with chiaroscuro.
@vivegedda gedda swallows the voice more than most which is why he has that frog sound in his middle voice. its not until his high notes that the tone actually gets better imo. i am a fan of gedda and respect him for the things he does best, in fact he was my favorite for a while. however, this sound is more swallowed and produced lower in the throat throughout his mid voice much more than corelli or what melocchi goes for. gedda doesnt have italian technique.
I wish we could hear Melocchi's instructions more clearly (even though my Italian is far from fluent:)). Limarilli was a fine dramatic tenor. His voice must have been nearly deafening in this room!
Did Melocchi teach Tom Lo Monaco?
JussiPaul 2 weeks ago
@JussiPaul No, but there are some similarities. However, Tom really knew the things in the Melocchi method to watch out for; i.e. depressed larynx etc. Tom's teaching was more comprehensive.
MrCafiero 2 weeks ago
@JussiPaul Actually, I have a student who also teaches. The other day her husband came in while she was playing Del Monaco. He has heard many of my students often. He remarked, "wow, X sounds great". She told him, "it is Del Monaco". He said it sounded just like one of my students. And this student is still young and training.
MrCafiero 2 weeks ago
@dngeorge62 I would love to see those vdeos
shaahnoori 4 weeks ago
Hello Thank you for this video how can we get more .tks
georgio1930 1 month ago
I studied with Elio Gennari student of Melocchi...he built the biggest and most awesome voices in the Mid West... for a tremendous top you have to do the Melocchi exercises.....I have all the exercises if anyone still wants an unbeatable top...let me know...
dngeorge62 4 months ago
@dngeorge62 Well, there is not question here on how to get a huge top. No one had a bigger top than my teacher, not even Del Monaco! LOL!
MrCafiero 3 months ago
@dngeorge62
Of course i'd like you to send me those excercises..!
It Would be very important for me,becouse i'm a teacher..
Thanks very much.!
MrByrontracks 1 month ago
@dngeorge62 Do you have all the Melocchi exercises? How do I get them?
giorgiy 4 weeks ago
@ MrCafiero- do you have more videos like this? Also does this kind of technique apply to sopranos as well?
mojopum 4 months ago
@mojopum I do have more of his lesson. You know, the technique was certainly better than most today, but when taught by Melocchi himself and not the off shoots. It still had things to watch out for; i.e. a depressed larynx etc. But he had many things right. Women don't sing chest dominant the way men do, but keeping the larynx in the low, mid low range is right.
MrCafiero 4 months ago
@mojopum I am going to put of videos of teaching eventually.
MrCafiero 4 months ago
I apologize for the confusion. I have studied at the Uselman/Klein vocal studios and spent 15 years training Joe Klein. We made it one of our goals to attempt to understand how the damn thing works! A lifetime project yes? This post was a real gem, a close look into how Maestro Melocchi worked with his students. Thank you again, and again apologies for the confusion.
orovalleydude 10 months ago 3
Thank you for posting! Your assumption is that the only way to lengthen the cords is with the set of infra-hyoid muscles. The action of those muscles will only lengthen the cords as they depress the hyoid bone down on to the front of the thyroid cartilage. The way to lengthen the cords is by the use of the cricothyroid muscles; this will pivot the thyroid cartilage at the articular facet on the cricoid. The availability of the pharyngeal resonators is essential.
orovalleydude 10 months ago 3
@orovalleydude Who are you referring to? Me? I NEVER would say the infrahyoid's lengthen the vocal folds in a proper production. It is the cricothryoids that do that.
MrCafiero 10 months ago
Could someone translate the Melocchi's recommendations?
Please!
garanss 1 year ago
@garanss He doesn't really say much besides telling him not to hold the air back, keep the vowels deep inside etc.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
It was from a joint interview with Tucker and Robert Merrill that originally appeared in OPERA NEWS, possibly a few years before Tucker passed away. It was collected in book form along with other interviews from O.N. Tucker was speaking of Verdi's OTELLO as "...a voice killer..." He cited Del Monaco's lack of legato around that time as an example. As a matter of speculation, it might have been a subjective reaction or possibly a phase that Del Monaco was going through at some point.
legatofancier 1 year ago
@legatofancier Or he could have just been envious of Del Monaco in the role of Otello which he dominated. LOL! I wish I knew which year this article was from. I have not heard Del Monaco not sing legato except for affect.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
i can't hear very clearly : (
Nick9494 1 year ago
Did Melocchi teach a technique involving lowering the larynx to a very low position and holding it in a fixed position? It is my understanding (subject to correction) that Del Monaco based his technique on keepiing the larynx in such a low, fixed position. Supposedly, Corelli learned this technique, but modified it allow the larynx to move freely in the throat. Obviously, i am not maintaining that this interpretation is strictly correct. Please elucidate and clarify the matter! Thanks!
legatofancier 1 year ago
@legatofancier Melocchi did teach a technique that used a lowered larynx, but to be honest most of the great singers had a lowered larynx. That is how you get scuro. The danger in the Melocchi method - in my opinion - is taking it too far to where it becomes a "depressed larynx". Then there is inability to do dynamics and to have agility. I think Melocchi was pretty good at avoiding this, but not 100% successful and Del Monaco chose not to sing with much dynamic variance.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero - Thanks for your insight! I remember an interview with Richard Tucker published before his untimely death in which he said that when he had seen Del Monaco in Italy that Del Monaco had told Tucker that he couldn't sing legato any longer. Was this the result of force of habit from singing forte constantly, or the result of a "depressed larynx"? Or, is it even possible to distinguish a difference in a case like this?
legatofancier 1 year ago
@legatofancier Do you know what year that was? Del Monaco was singing pretty well legato in his last performance at 60 years old so I don't know if Tucker was talking about after Del Monaco was retired and sick. He was on dialysis.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
I have the lesson with del monaco :P
MusicyLife 1 year ago
@MusicyLife You should post it. Or sell it.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero sell ? nono maybe i will post it.
MusicyLife 1 year ago
@MusicyLife That would be great.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MusicyLife Would you please post it? That would be very educational!!
seektheforce 1 year ago
@seektheforce ok i posted it ... /watch?v=5YKP9tjYeh4 subscrive tu my channel :P
MusicyLife 1 year ago
why dont you create your own instructional videos MrCafiero?this is a wonderful medium to share views and ideas,demonstrate your ideas on singing!
hobo1975 1 year ago
@Bigus You really need to take your head out of your a*%. I read your comment Callas had bad technique....amazing thing is that students usually preach their teachers words......ma WHO is your teacher??? CALLAS in her prime is the epitome of opera artists.
kingcorelli 1 year ago
For someone who was considered by some in Italy "the Throat wrecker" not only did this legendary teacher know exactly what he was teaching but he demonstrates it with his beautiful instrument. Truly one of my favourite videos, shame it's not so clear. Grazie
kingcorelli 1 year ago
@kingcorelli What is funny is that those who call Melocchi a "throat wrecker" couldn't sing to save their lives! LOL! And it is still the way today.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
i love the fullness Limarilli keeps in his voice up to the high C! We need Melocchi today!
FacePaster 1 year ago
Dear Mr. Cafiero, how amazing is the audio in which Melocchi teaches Limarilli to sing properly the passaggio. There are no more Maestros like this. I'm from Argentina and I study lyric singing. It's a shame that we can't understand the indications Melocchi gives to Limarilli. The audio is so low. Do you have a more faithful register? or some other like this?
Sincerily
ducedimantua 1 year ago
@ducedimantua He does teach correctly how to sing in the passaggio and I will tell you it is what I teach and what my teacher taught as well. Here Melocchi is telling him to find the vowel inside, keep the air flowing etc. You can hear him clearly getting him to sing more OO in the passaggion in order to "cover" correctly.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
The answer is in the physiology of the larynx for voice production.
Thyroarytenoids predominate initially, then one must put the crycothyroids into action (for further adduction and tensing/thinning of the vocal folds) so access to the top can be attained. I believe in part is what the italians call "girare".This must be learned for a smooth transition.And Yes, the bigger or sizable the voice is, the more problems will be encountered.
Heroictenor 1 year ago
Thanks to MrCafiero as for this video; It is of great interest for any singer, specially the bigger voice, that need to cover more in orther to ease their upper register. Pavarotti spoked widely about the "cover of the pasaggio", as well as Corelli; in other cases as Kraus , he denied that he covered his sound,due to a suffocated position of the throat. I guess it depends on your inner spaces and natural messuares;also what kind of repertoire you aboard.Thanks for sharing Bravo!!!!!
tenorschofield 1 year ago
@tenorschofield But Kraus did cover whether he called it covering or not. The sound that he made was the "covered" sound. Corelli said the same about Kraus. If I cover, but call it another name than someone else, I am still doing the same thing.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero I guess you are rigth; but I am not sure what Kraus meant "covered sound" the same as Corelli. For me , as I understand, the covered sound is an opening of high soft palate, as well as a relaxation and space in the throat and mouth, while still projecting a bigger pressure of air to the resonance spaces in the head and chest, with the correct use of the "intercostal diaphragmatic" appoggio. Kraus meant as wrong,to place the sound in the throat as a refference to "cover the sound".
tenorschofield 1 year ago
@tenorschofield "Covered" actually is a muscular switch whereby the infrahyoids and stylo muscles come into play to keep the larynx in a mid to mid low position allowing the singer to keep chest active in the high notes. This is generally done by keeping more OO in the sound as you go through the passaggio to the top. The *sound* that Kraus and Corelli and all the other old singers went for in the passggio and top caused this switch to happen. So they all "covered".
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@tenorschofield This is also why the singing world and teaching world is such a mess. Different singers may have done similar sounds, but used terms differently.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero I totally agree with you!!!...you are 100% rigth. As well as in the idea that "different personal leanguages" even if helpful to express the "unexpressable", contribute greatly to the confusion of vocal students...me included!!!!
tenorschofield 1 year ago
This is so egregiously out of tune.
bradleyjenks 1 year ago
@bradleyjenks ROFL! I hardly think so. What are you listening to this on? Also, this guy was still "learning". This was not a performance, but a LESSON!
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero Okay, I suppose egregiously was the wrong word. More like 'frequently'. More than half the topmost notes in the exercise is at least a little flat. More than half! That's not even when it's very high.
bradleyjenks 1 year ago
Del Monaco hà fatto soffrire tantissimi tenori.Limarilli aveva una bellissima voce ma cercando di coppiare lo stile di Del Monaco si é rovinato la voce.
bodiloto 1 year ago
Listen to TITO SCHIPA about whom the GREAT TENOR BENIAMINO GIGLI, SAID,
"ALL TENORS SHOULD TAKE THEIR HATS OFF TO HIM." It is not how "LOUD" a person sings, it is, rather, "HOW WELL" by "OBSERVING the DYNAMICS" -
the Pianissimo, Crescendi, Diminuendo which leads to the Chiaroscuro, the mark
of an Artist just as it is in painting.
MrSkylark1 1 year ago
@MrSkylark1 It isn't about how "loud" someone sings, it is about how freely someone sings. If you do it *right* - which means efficiently, with full development - it will be loud. In the best possible way, but there should also be dynamics.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero you are right, also in learning to free the voice, its better to sing everything forte anyway. once the voice is free you can dimenuendo like corelli and pavarotti and not lose the core sound and it stays free. i appreciate this post.
bigus 1 year ago
before you can sing softly beautifully,you have to be able to sing openly and freely so when you back off its healthy.corelli had the best mezza voce of any tenor practically and could diminuento on any note in his range thats more than schipa or gigli could do no offense to them. like cafiero said your voice will naturally be louder if its free,which will ultimately give you a wider range of dynamics.schipa can't even really be compared because he had a small voice and relatively poor technique
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus "That's more than Schipa or Gigli could do..."???? Um.... you're kinda talking about two people who did exactly that, better than almost anyone.
bradleyjenks 1 year ago
do you have examples? because i havent heard any and i have listened to both very extensively. keep in mind im not saying they couldn't sing softly. im talking about dimenuendoing from a forte to a piano on any note. schipa sang everything relatively softly and had a tiny voice so he isn't a very good example. also im not saying corelli was better than gigli, im saying he couldn't do what corelli could do and very few could. listen to corellis celeste aida and how he dimenuendos on the Bb
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus yes, I have heard many, one from Gigli that springs to mind is Le Violette, by Mozart. Lovely diminuendo. Anyway, the point is that, yes, it is hard to do, especially at the very top. But they did it all the time throughout their range and he did a handful of well-known high, hard ones during his career. And saying Schipa's voice size matters is ridiculous. Volume has nothing to do with it. Depth of voice would make more sense. But suggesting that he had poor technique!? Nonsense.
bradleyjenks 1 year ago
the reason i say his voice size matters, is because typically its easier to do vocal gymnastics with a lighter smaller voice like with schipa. the reason i say he had relatively poor technique is because his voice was neither as free as it could have been nor was his range as great as it probably should have been or would have been if it was freer. schipa was famous for his singing not for his voice or its beauty. he was a beautiful singer but not a great technician.
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus The ability to do gymnastics is based on getting rid of excess constriction, not lightening the voice.
Here Limarilli, BTW, sings a high C with ease in the end of the lesson.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
true but big voices are harder to move around and be agile, which is why you dont hear big voices doing coloratura very often.also the voice doesn't need to be lightened as it gets lighter automatically the further up the staff you go, but you cant drag the voice weight up there to the top to make it bigger sounding than it should be or you will be pushing or going flat etc because you are working against the chords trying to stretch to make the pitch.not lightenning it but allowing it to be.
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus Big voices are not harder to move if you get rid of constriction. Hence Callas, Tebaldi, Tetrazzini, Destinn, Ponselle, Caballe, Ruffo, Caruso, Mardones etc. The voice should not get "lighter" the further up you go. "Weight" implies constriction. If you get rid of the constriction you can sing huge on the top with ease as these old singers did. One of the worst false paradigms is to "lighten" as you go up. No way.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero most of the singers you mentioned i have never heard do any significant coloratura. callas had horrendous technique so ill ignore that one LOL, but as i said the voice lightens and brightens naturally the further the chords stretch, this is a physical fact.carrying weight to me implies heaviness and darkness of voice all the way up.i believe this is why singers like MDM tended to go flat up top. from trying to sound too big and hefty up there when the chord couldnt handle the pressure
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus WHAT? Callas had a great technique, but she LOST IT! She let it go. Listen to Ponselle sing Traviata. Or Ruffo sing largo or the duet from The Barber of Seville. Listen to Caruso's fioratura at the end of Una furtiva. The point remains that getting the constriction out of the way allows you to move quickly. Nilsson could sing queen of the night. Also, stretching the vocal folds changes the pitch, but it doesn't "lighten" the sound.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero
Could you kindly put your videos teaching? x
mojopum 4 months ago
@MrCafiero also im not saying you should try to lighten the sound, it just happens, and like garcia says you do want to apply dark timbre to the upper notes to keep them mature sounding, however that still doesnt account for the fact that as the vocal fold stretch to make the pitches the sound lightens/brightens naturally. all you are doing when you apply the dark timbre is to slow down the process so you can have a more unified voice from bottom to top.
bigus 1 year ago
if you can show me recordings on youtube or upload the ones you have i would like to hear them because i haven't ever heard either of them do anything like what corelli does. again not saying he was better all around. gigli typically sang forte or piano and ive never heard him diminuendo on a Bb from forte to piano schipa either, he basically hoots his way through everything because his voice wasn't very powerful to begin with. and hooting is easy.also this was more accepted back then than today
bigus 1 year ago
@bigus There are some examples of Melocchi teaching it in the recordings I have. However, Del Monaco stayed away from it for the most part. If you listen to some recordings of him does do it, but he made the decision not to do it much. The La Forza aria shows him doing it and he does it in Carmen in the aria as well.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrSkylark1 the dynamical changes don't have any relation to the chiaroscuro or the mask. those are purely a technical aspec of singing and ones production. if i misunderstood you then ignore my statement. everything else i agree with.
bigus 1 year ago
Ho preso un paio di lezioni da Limarilli che mi spiegò la sua tecnica, appresa da Melocchi di cui aveva la massima stima. Era molto onerosa perché giungeva ad aprire il petto al fiato, attraverso una manovra innaturale di appoggio sul diaframma. Si sente la pesantezza dell'emissione basata sull''ampiezza zigomatica. Preferisco aprire il petto collegato alla maschera, con la voce acuta di testa, in modo più morbido e naturale. Non capisco perché si debba soffiare spingendo in fuori la pancia.
sincrotto 1 year ago
@sincrotto hai perfettamente ragione,nessuno ricorda più quello che diceva Mario Del Monaco:io canto con le sopraciglia perchè cantava alto in maschera.
mrodicalp 1 year ago
ну, это самая сложная гласная....я под ней слышу гласную у....ученик поёт полным своим капиталом....этот звук и школа очень мне близки....педагог настроил голос ученика как скрипку или виолончель, чтоб взять правильно верхнюю ноту....
svjatazarov 1 year ago
@svjatazarov YES!
MrCafiero 1 year ago
as he goes up.....it seems the voice goes way back...
bajobaritonoAH 1 year ago
@bajobaritonoAH What do you mean by "back"? Just making sure. The biggest resonator in the voice is the pharyngeal cavity, making up for 97%+ of total resonance. Then there is some from the mouth too. And the pharyngeal cavity is below the uvula. So in that since "back" is right. Melocchi was not into placement forward. Deep inside with the vowels with chiaroscuro.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@MrCafiero you are dreaming. The voic goes so fsr behind that he's swallowing it! Uou should listen to Gedda a bit!!
vivegedda 1 year ago
@vivegedda Do everyone a favor and stop acting like you know anything about singing. You are obviously deaf.
MrCafiero 1 year ago
@vivegedda gedda swallows the voice more than most which is why he has that frog sound in his middle voice. its not until his high notes that the tone actually gets better imo. i am a fan of gedda and respect him for the things he does best, in fact he was my favorite for a while. however, this sound is more swallowed and produced lower in the throat throughout his mid voice much more than corelli or what melocchi goes for. gedda doesnt have italian technique.
bigus 1 year ago
Comment removed
Webarton 1 year ago
Melocchi: The King of Teacher !
MegaSiegmund 2 years ago
This video is very helpful for me trying to learn how to sing!
Gregsynth 2 years ago
That`s great... Melocchis instructions are very soft-spoken but nevertheless ...it´s fantastic. Thanks a lot.
noregrets54 2 years ago
Great clip...thanks for putting this up! The student has a magnificent voice, and the teacher a magnificent reputation. Wonderful to listen to!
aaronsande 2 years ago 2
I wish we could hear Melocchi's instructions more clearly (even though my Italian is far from fluent:)). Limarilli was a fine dramatic tenor. His voice must have been nearly deafening in this room!
stevevandien 2 years ago
Stupenda testimonianza. è un disco che in tutto ha circa una ventina di brani diversi, tra cui anche melocchi che fa la turandot da tenore.
è una testimonianza preziosa per chi canta: si capisce che si deve cantare sulla parola e non facendo cose artificiali
nnsochedirti 2 years ago
Come/da dove si puo comprare questo disco???
ognianok 2 years ago
Fascinating and valuable- Thank you
brentanoleader 2 years ago