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Ok this is way off. If you have 6(remember the burn card) cards out of the deck that means there is 46 left in there. Only 12 of those will help you and 34 wont. So 12 goes into 34 almost 3 times,so we will round up and say you have 3:1 odds to make your hand,thats about 33.3% not 48%.
@PBRMafia you don't subtract a burn card when applying odds with cards left in the deck. Even though physically that card is burned, you can't account for it without knowing what it is. For instance, if it is one of your outs, then it messes up your odds. Thats why you never add burned cards or other players hole cards.
@magikman38 you don't consider burnt cards as you can't predict what cards are being burnt ...same is that you can't predict what will happen...odds and outs are only used to calculate if you should call or not depending on the pot and bet of your opponents to know the proabability of winning a hand..still poker players still use intuition and also consider other things ..for example, a bluff, someone else having the same higher card..
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just using an extreme example, but what if you had 25 outs after the flop... using the rule of 4, hitting your card is 100% likely, how accurate is this general rule?
@kondr7 that depends on what you put your opponent on right?
Let's say that I have KQ of spades, on the flop comes 10 of spades, J of spades and K of hearts. I would probably win this hand if I either hit a straight, a flush, or trips. That would give me 9 outs on the flush, 6 outs on the straight and 2 outs to hit trips, which ads up to a total of 17 outs. Which is more than 15, right?
@EtarN u actually have 20 outs for a made hand since u have 3 more outs to make 2 pairs but yes its more than 15 and depends on the strenght of ur opponents hand
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i guess you just don't understand what j/k means, you must be just blind and had your mom read it for you and she forgot to add that part, which make you a douche blind person, and I never have met one before, so congrats
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ok on the calculating pot odds portion...he says that the 100 chip will represent 1/5 or 20% of the pot....but the pot is 400 and your chip is 100...so how is that 1/5 or 20%...wouldn't it represent 1/4 or 25% of the pot?
@linkedup8484, the odds represent the quantity of times you lose in comparison to the times you win so, if we think about some odds of 4 to 1, this is, you win 1 time, each 5 times you face this situation, or with other words, you win 1 time, for other 4 times you will lose. In the same way, if we talk about pot odds, 100 is a 25% of the total, thats true, but in order to compare with the odds, you have to notice that 100 is a fifth part of the 400 plus your 100, the total amount you could win.
Take this scenario: i hold suited hole cards, the pot is 100 on the flop and i have a flush draw. My opponent bets 100 making the pot a total of 200. Using the calculations of this video I should call. 9 outs x 4 = 36% chance to win, pot odds 1/3 = 33%. This is a VERY wrong call in my oppinion. I have about 20% chance of making my flush on the turn. If I dont hit it my opponent will likely bet between half the pot and the whole pot (150-300). Again making it way to expensive to call the bet.
You are forgetting the Implied odds. If you do hit the Flush you will bust him for his entire stack, which increases the odds and profit to make the call.
@aboggild You are correct. Since the Rule of 4 gives you your chance of making your hand by the river, You should only use the Rule of 4 on the flop if you or your opponent are all-in and you will not have to commit any more chips to the pot to see the turn & river cards. If you both have chips to bet with after the turn card, then you should use the Rule of 2 to determine if you are getting the right price to see the turn card and chase your draw.
Is this way of calculating odds/outs only for tourney play, or can it be applied to cash games as well?? I'm new to poker so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Its the same calculations. The only thing is you sometimes cant risk too much in a tournament on a draw where you are only 30% to win just because of the reason that once you lose your chips you are out, even if the pot odds are telling you to call. In cash games, if you make the right calls like this all the time (key words, every time) then you will come out a winner in the long run.
you cant really say coz it depends on the situation: how many are playing, the size of your stack, how aggressive/passive the other players are etc. but because of the high card it would probably be the A2 suited
If you have an A 2 then all you really want is another A so you can pair.
If you got a 10 J then any 10 OR J would look alright
A 10 J is probably the better choice for a cash game just to see the flops, but if the 2 hands went all in preflop (as in tournaments when the blinds get very high) , then the A 2 would win about 60% of the time.
Btw, if you got an A at a full table, theres about a 70% chance you are the only one who has one.
Pretty bad info in my opinion. You're telling people that A-2 is a good hand. It's one of the worst played hands. Yeah if you pair the ace you have top pair, but the worst kicker. So if somebody does manage to have a higher kicker you may lose a hell of a lot. Also 10 J isn't a very good hand either. You have to take account of positioning. If i'm first to act with J-10 offsuit I would fold them however if i'm last and only everybody but two have folded (the other two limp in) I would limp in.
Well somebody asked what hand was better. I am trying to tell them which is better in what situation. Not saying that either one is good in particular, just comparing.
It would depend in my opinion, who you are against and what comes out on the flop, then how you play it. It doesn't take a pro to realise Aces are ahead of Jacks pre-flop. Still I would rather have J-10 suited than A-2 off.
Playing crap aces like Ace 2 in a full table is a recipe to go broke. Only donkeys do that. Do not play anything less then ace 10 in a full table unless you are in late position and noone has raised.
when calculating pot odds what about the cards other players have in their hands already? i mean thats 16/18 cards and we can´t possibly know what r they.
that doesn't matter. it is already in the calculation.
the other players can have most of your outs in their hands, but they can also have almost none of your outs in their hands (and that would increase the chance you hit your straight/flush)
in the first example my call is included in the pot to make the pot 500, and in the 2nd example its not included so the pot is 300, with my call icluded it would be 400.
the number of players is irrevelant when you count your outs.
it is true that some players might hold some of your outs but it is also possible that they don't, in wich case your outs are stronger because there are less cards left in the deck. The two situations counter balance each other.
But imagine sitting on a full 10 max table and having a flushdraw on the flop. In this case you have 9 nominal outs but just 6 real outs because 40% of the deck is being dealt to the players and therefore cant be turned or rivered. So I calculate with only 60% of my 9 outs which is 5 - 6 outs. On a fully seated 6 max table it would be 77% real outs out of 100% nominal outs. Im pretty sure that this is correct but correct me if Im wrong pls.
Actually, assuming that a few outs were in the hands of other players isn't a good idea, becuase the rule of 4 and 2 already is based on all cards out.
The more important consideration and the scenario you are probably wanting to avoid is will anybody make the nut hand. If you have a flush draw, anyone holding the Ace-high flush draw means you are drawing dead. If you have 45 and the flop is 789, a 6 gives you your straight but any ten crushes you.
i lost 15 dollars in one hand the other night when i went all-in with the idiot end of the straight. had 6 7 flop was 8 9 10, other guy turned over jack queen.
The outs are calculated with all of the cards that you can't see...and then working out the chance of an odd falling. It is irrespective of what your opponents hold when working out outs. ALL of the out cards have a chance of turning. By reducing the outs based on what you think others have is only reducing your chances of making good calls.
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he had to commit 100 to a 200 pot thus making it 300 where he paid 100 so 1/3 = 33% forget what nforce2 said idk what he was talking about. he's obviously way out.
For online poker this video is useless, first most of the online poker sites are rigged and second poker online is full of noobs players that will call anything and at the end u will end up loosing
Many do. But that just means that their calls aren't worth the money in the long run.
For example: A 10% chance to win with a 4:1 call might be a "good decision" 10% of the time, but in the long run you're going to lose 9 times the call amount for that one win of 4 times.
Donks only remember when their terrible calls work out and just call their bad calls "bad luck" and continue playing this way. Play smart and in the long run you'll take in much more money than you lose.
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Phil is making a BIG mistake in this video. Specifically, using the Rule of 4 & 2. What he is neglecting is that you can only multiply your outs by 4 if you are seeing the turn and river (All-in). If you are just considering the flop bet (where he has 12 outs) his percentages of improving on that "street" is only approx 24% (12/47). On the turn he picks up 3 more outs, now he has 15 outs, giving him a 32.6% (15/46). He's not telling you guys is that 4-2 rule only applies in a freeroll situation.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DUDE? stop confusing people ok? If you listen to the video correctly you will hear that phil says "by the river" when he explains multiplying by 4. That is when you will go till the river. 2nd of all what FREEROLL situation are you talking about? it has nothing to do with freerolls... money game or tournaments or freerolls whatever it is 2&4 rule works everywhere as long as its texal hold'em. There are also implied odds but thats more complicated..
because u r investing 33% of the total pot, so therefor u should only invest in accordance to ur chances of winning... (i think... hehe) in other words if u hav a 33% chance of winning u should only call upto 33% of the total pot being bet... i think i fuck it, hehe but hey i tried for u .... gl with ur game
errrrr, keep in mind if ure playing on a table with 6 or even 9 or 10 people these can have 1 of those outs he is calculating .... which makes the chance of getting that out smaller ...
that has apsolutley no relevance unless u know they are playing tight aggresive so they will be holding jj, qq, kk aa, ak, and even this range is far too broad to make it relevent to decision making
u can't calculate that into counting outs. There is just as good a chance that the winning card is in the deck than there is that somebody is holding it. You just have to think of the next card as a random card.
Grande Palomba! Ahah! Ma certo che si vede il tuo math studies.. è più complicato e si fa con un metodo diverso, ma la probabilità si può sempre calcolare!! :D Cmnqe tieni sempre presente che un running running non viene quasi mai. Mitico.. Prima o poi ci incontreremo e ti sfidero a Texas Hold'em quindi? :))
at that point his gut shot draw of 3-5-6-7 turned into an open ended draw of 5-6-7-8 leaving him w/ any spade (9 outs), any 4 (3 outs, excluding the spade), or any 9 (3 more) totaling 15 outs.
i think what a lot of you are missing here is the fact that most people who are going to buy this dvd are not as intelligent as most of you. what phil is trying to do here is give the "average joe" a little taste of poker theory. im sure he understands that these odds arent entirely accurate, and that playing at an actual table with experienced players is much more difficult than using the "rule of 4 and 2." phil gordon made a poker dvd to make a little extra cash. its all about marketing folks.
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If you mean that calculation by jagriffith1, don't bother. It goes wrong on more than one occasion and he seems to be too full of himself to go trough it again with thought.
for fedormnagod: if you are talking about phils "making winnig decisions" he was saying that the pot was 100, someone before him bet another 100 (size of the pot) making it 200, so a call from him of a 100 would make it 300, so 100 for 300 is 1/3 or 33%. i hope that helps some.
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If you have "12 outs" and six people are playing, assuming none of the cards count as outs were dealt to other players, the odds are 33.33 percent, not 48 percent.
Figure it out.
Six players with two hole cards - 12 cards gone. Three dealt on the flop, one burned before flop - 4 cards gone.
Now with 16 cards gone from a deck of 52 leaving 36 and you need any one of 12 of them, what are the odds?
The odds that those 16 cards of your opponents include/don't include your outs are the same as on any random 16 cards left in the deck. Making them irrelevant in this calculation.
Also, you calculated odds for 1 card to hit your outs. In poker, there are 2 cards left to be dealt after the flop, so your odds are of course higher.
(Google Taylor Series - have someone explain it to you slowly and repeatedly)
Each turn of the cards is one card and hence one outcome. The odds for each card can be calculated separately and summed to produce the same overall answer - that is, if you can calculate the sum correctly.
Even mindless blabbering automatons should one-day realize that a rule of 4 or rule of 2 is, at best, only an approximation.
you're probably right jagriffith while the acclaimed proffessional poker player, writer of several well received books on poker theory is probably wrong ... count those odds why don't you
btw if ur playing online plz do give me the site and your nick
Unless all these people who have won millions playing poker, and who write all these poker books are wrong, it works like this: The other players cards are irrelevant(unless you have seen them.) After the flop there are 5 known cards.This leaves the possibility of any of 47 different unseen cards that could come on the turn. No one card more or less likely than then next. (Unless it's the card you need, then you have zero chance.)
tnx braincrafter, but i knew. normally i'm not apt to educating the fish ... but i couldn't resist some mild sarcasm for this jagriffith or what's his name. and remember: don't be to pissed when the blind squirrel finds the occasional nutt!
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ur an absolute fucking idiot, just dont play poker. Unless its with me for alot of money because ill wipe the floor with you and your crazy percentages
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454shiobanskidmore45 10 months ago
Ok this is way off. If you have 6(remember the burn card) cards out of the deck that means there is 46 left in there. Only 12 of those will help you and 34 wont. So 12 goes into 34 almost 3 times,so we will round up and say you have 3:1 odds to make your hand,thats about 33.3% not 48%.
PBRMafia 1 year ago
@PBRMafia you don't subtract a burn card when applying odds with cards left in the deck. Even though physically that card is burned, you can't account for it without knowing what it is. For instance, if it is one of your outs, then it messes up your odds. Thats why you never add burned cards or other players hole cards.
magikman38 1 year ago 3
@magikman38 That doesnt change anything,it is still about 33 percent,not 48.
PBRMafia 1 year ago
@magikman38 you don't consider burnt cards as you can't predict what cards are being burnt ...same is that you can't predict what will happen...odds and outs are only used to calculate if you should call or not depending on the pot and bet of your opponents to know the proabability of winning a hand..still poker players still use intuition and also consider other things ..for example, a bluff, someone else having the same higher card..
medspit 7 months ago
@medspit You do consider them because you can't count them out without knowing what they are. You can't subtract those out of the possiblities.
magikman38 7 months ago
@medspit You do consider them because you can't count them out without knowing what they are. You can't subtract those out of the possibilities.
magikman38 7 months ago
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hollayoungin 1 year ago
just using an extreme example, but what if you had 25 outs after the flop... using the rule of 4, hitting your card is 100% likely, how accurate is this general rule?
MarktheSharkSheehan 1 year ago
@MarktheSharkSheehan you cant have 25 outs... max number of outs is 15 when you have flush draw AND open end straight draw
kondr7 1 year ago
@kondr7 that depends on what you put your opponent on right?
Let's say that I have KQ of spades, on the flop comes 10 of spades, J of spades and K of hearts. I would probably win this hand if I either hit a straight, a flush, or trips. That would give me 9 outs on the flush, 6 outs on the straight and 2 outs to hit trips, which ads up to a total of 17 outs. Which is more than 15, right?
EtarN 1 year ago
@EtarN Right, but you re likely to win this hand without hitting anything..
kondr7 1 year ago
@EtarN u actually have 20 outs for a made hand since u have 3 more outs to make 2 pairs but yes its more than 15 and depends on the strenght of ur opponents hand
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I noticed the video doesn't consider a pair of 5s or 6s an out. Good call.
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very good explanation of how to work out odds. never quite understood the rule of 4 and 2 until this, very simple but helpful explanation.
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MageAtYou 1 year ago
is that kinda like counting cards?
Perceus995 1 year ago
@Perceus995
No
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good explination but your still a crook :D
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Well i haven't played it in real but i have on internet i don't know about other but i use this my self...nvm nice video
harpreetxi 1 year ago
phil gordon is a donkey
JJarv213 1 year ago
he's forgetting the whole point of bluffing, too much numbers too little poker, no wonder I haven't heard of him before j/k
joeynovak2 2 years ago
never heard of phil gordon? way to show how much of a noob you are.
Gggmanlives 1 year ago 20
i guess you just don't understand what j/k means, you must be just blind and had your mom read it for you and she forgot to add that part, which make you a douche blind person, and I never have met one before, so congrats
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sophiestevie1 2 years ago
ok on the calculating pot odds portion...he says that the 100 chip will represent 1/5 or 20% of the pot....but the pot is 400 and your chip is 100...so how is that 1/5 or 20%...wouldn't it represent 1/4 or 25% of the pot?
linkedup8484 2 years ago
if you call the pot will be 500 (400+100)
icedog141 2 years ago
maybe because when he calls it will add to 500 and scince he called 100 its 1/5
RubenTheCripplerRuiz 2 years ago
@linkedup8484 pot is 300, opponent bets 100 (pot is now 400), if you call 100 (pot becomes 500), your 100 represent 100/500 of the pot. hence 20%.
kingdomdom1 2 years ago
@linkedup8484, the odds represent the quantity of times you lose in comparison to the times you win so, if we think about some odds of 4 to 1, this is, you win 1 time, each 5 times you face this situation, or with other words, you win 1 time, for other 4 times you will lose. In the same way, if we talk about pot odds, 100 is a 25% of the total, thats true, but in order to compare with the odds, you have to notice that 100 is a fifth part of the 400 plus your 100, the total amount you could win.
ignigenaquintus 1 year ago
@linkedup8484
... the pot is 500 if he makes the call...
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jasmine7629 2 years ago
Take this scenario: i hold suited hole cards, the pot is 100 on the flop and i have a flush draw. My opponent bets 100 making the pot a total of 200. Using the calculations of this video I should call. 9 outs x 4 = 36% chance to win, pot odds 1/3 = 33%. This is a VERY wrong call in my oppinion. I have about 20% chance of making my flush on the turn. If I dont hit it my opponent will likely bet between half the pot and the whole pot (150-300). Again making it way to expensive to call the bet.
aboggild 2 years ago
You are forgetting the Implied odds. If you do hit the Flush you will bust him for his entire stack, which increases the odds and profit to make the call.
ojideagu 2 years ago
@aboggild You are correct. Since the Rule of 4 gives you your chance of making your hand by the river, You should only use the Rule of 4 on the flop if you or your opponent are all-in and you will not have to commit any more chips to the pot to see the turn & river cards. If you both have chips to bet with after the turn card, then you should use the Rule of 2 to determine if you are getting the right price to see the turn card and chase your draw.
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sienipata 2 years ago
Is this way of calculating odds/outs only for tourney play, or can it be applied to cash games as well?? I'm new to poker so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
angel2988 2 years ago
Its the same calculations. The only thing is you sometimes cant risk too much in a tournament on a draw where you are only 30% to win just because of the reason that once you lose your chips you are out, even if the pot odds are telling you to call. In cash games, if you make the right calls like this all the time (key words, every time) then you will come out a winner in the long run.
BriDirt 2 years ago
If the odds you get paid with are better than the odds of you catching your cards than its the right call
Its like betting $5 on a coinflip, but if you win you get $6. Just keep making the bets with the payouts in your favor and you will be a winner.
BriDirt 2 years ago
wow thats genius
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aaronzombiefan 2 years ago
which of this is the better holding cards?
J 10 suited or A 2 suited
ozgurdiren 2 years ago
you cant really say coz it depends on the situation: how many are playing, the size of your stack, how aggressive/passive the other players are etc. but because of the high card it would probably be the A2 suited
calahoon22 2 years ago
depends your position at the table
simandicos 2 years ago
Think of it this way:
If you have an A 2 then all you really want is another A so you can pair.
If you got a 10 J then any 10 OR J would look alright
A 10 J is probably the better choice for a cash game just to see the flops, but if the 2 hands went all in preflop (as in tournaments when the blinds get very high) , then the A 2 would win about 60% of the time.
Btw, if you got an A at a full table, theres about a 70% chance you are the only one who has one.
BriDirt 2 years ago
Pretty bad info in my opinion. You're telling people that A-2 is a good hand. It's one of the worst played hands. Yeah if you pair the ace you have top pair, but the worst kicker. So if somebody does manage to have a higher kicker you may lose a hell of a lot. Also 10 J isn't a very good hand either. You have to take account of positioning. If i'm first to act with J-10 offsuit I would fold them however if i'm last and only everybody but two have folded (the other two limp in) I would limp in.
UKRickie 2 years ago
Well somebody asked what hand was better. I am trying to tell them which is better in what situation. Not saying that either one is good in particular, just comparing.
BriDirt 2 years ago
It would depend in my opinion, who you are against and what comes out on the flop, then how you play it. It doesn't take a pro to realise Aces are ahead of Jacks pre-flop. Still I would rather have J-10 suited than A-2 off.
UKRickie 2 years ago
Playing crap aces like Ace 2 in a full table is a recipe to go broke. Only donkeys do that. Do not play anything less then ace 10 in a full table unless you are in late position and noone has raised.
ojideagu 2 years ago
again, i am only comparing 2 hands, not saying witch one is good
BriDirt 2 years ago
Thanks, that was a very good explanation :-)
guusknelissen 2 years ago
what's the percentage of getting a full house by the river after flopping trips?
Ricex17 2 years ago
0.0005%
Nymphy14 2 years ago
when calculating pot odds what about the cards other players have in their hands already? i mean thats 16/18 cards and we can´t possibly know what r they.
duio 2 years ago
Indeed, we don't know. And as for we don't know, they might as well still be in the deck. It's always a gamble, but hey, that's poker mate...
WhatNecCorp 2 years ago
that doesn't matter. it is already in the calculation.
the other players can have most of your outs in their hands, but they can also have almost none of your outs in their hands (and that would increase the chance you hit your straight/flush)
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InstantRakeback 2 years ago
thats strange...
in the first example my call is included in the pot to make the pot 500, and in the 2nd example its not included so the pot is 300, with my call icluded it would be 400.
hendrik04 2 years ago
to calculate pot odds you do NOT include your 100 to call, therefore there are 400 and your pot odds are 4 - 1
to calculate your winning percentage you include your 100 making the pot 500 total requiring a winning percentage of 1/5 = 20%
(you could eliminate the first step because eventually you are only comparing the winning percentages)
kentpaul65102 2 years ago
to klaklaklak :
the number of players is irrevelant when you count your outs.
it is true that some players might hold some of your outs but it is also possible that they don't, in wich case your outs are stronger because there are less cards left in the deck. The two situations counter balance each other.
Englocked 2 years ago
Please say EVERYONE KNOWS THIS... Definetley basic/beginner knowledge.
Very helpful though.
slipperness 2 years ago
Sorry ... not everyone is a poker pro ... hopefully well get to your level and actually stop searching youtube for poker tips
immad 2 years ago
This is helping me a lot
MifSiffer 2 years ago
But imagine sitting on a full 10 max table and having a flushdraw on the flop. In this case you have 9 nominal outs but just 6 real outs because 40% of the deck is being dealt to the players and therefore cant be turned or rivered. So I calculate with only 60% of my 9 outs which is 5 - 6 outs. On a fully seated 6 max table it would be 77% real outs out of 100% nominal outs. Im pretty sure that this is correct but correct me if Im wrong pls.
klaklaklak 2 years ago
phil gordons a cunt
tommy444777 2 years ago
ha ha ha ha ha ha
andymaxwellandy 2 years ago
dam straight
tommy444777 2 years ago
One has to be careful calculating odds like this cause u never know wether some opponents already have some of your outs.
So when Im on a flushdraw and have 9 outs to hit my flush I calculate with 6-7 real outs because calculating with 9 outs would be wrong I think.
klaklaklak 2 years ago
Actually, assuming that a few outs were in the hands of other players isn't a good idea, becuase the rule of 4 and 2 already is based on all cards out.
The more important consideration and the scenario you are probably wanting to avoid is will anybody make the nut hand. If you have a flush draw, anyone holding the Ace-high flush draw means you are drawing dead. If you have 45 and the flop is 789, a 6 gives you your straight but any ten crushes you.
lordbyng 2 years ago
i lost 15 dollars in one hand the other night when i went all-in with the idiot end of the straight. had 6 7 flop was 8 9 10, other guy turned over jack queen.
never play the idiot end.
dieselboy87 2 years ago
The outs are calculated with all of the cards that you can't see...and then working out the chance of an odd falling. It is irrespective of what your opponents hold when working out outs. ALL of the out cards have a chance of turning. By reducing the outs based on what you think others have is only reducing your chances of making good calls.
asxtc 2 years ago
best explanation of odds and outs i've ever saw
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PartyGamingPlc 2 years ago
on the end part shouldn't the pot odds be 25% since he commited 100 to a 300 pot which totals 400 chips??that's how he did it on the first one
djax4mvp 2 years ago
Nope, he didnt commit 100 to a 300 pot.
His OPPONENT did.
so 300+100 = 400
400 + 100 (his own commitment) = 500 chips in the pot
THEN
100/500 = 0.2, therefore 20%
nforce2 2 years ago 2
he had to commit 100 to a 200 pot thus making it 300 where he paid 100 so 1/3 = 33% forget what nforce2 said idk what he was talking about. he's obviously way out.
nejtilsvampe 2 years ago
For online poker this video is useless, first most of the online poker sites are rigged and second poker online is full of noobs players that will call anything and at the end u will end up loosing
ofuhunter 2 years ago
if ur not an idiot u will make money at the "noob players" that will call with anything..
magma888 2 years ago
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now i understand why Phil Gordon never won any bracelet.
sneijder32 2 years ago
most players call no matter what the pot odds are.
commonsense2008 2 years ago
but do those players get a bracelet at WSOP, then go on to run a profitable business in poker media?
emann1066 2 years ago
These players are the ones that make poker profitable
hugeboofhead 2 years ago
Many do. But that just means that their calls aren't worth the money in the long run.
For example: A 10% chance to win with a 4:1 call might be a "good decision" 10% of the time, but in the long run you're going to lose 9 times the call amount for that one win of 4 times.
Donks only remember when their terrible calls work out and just call their bad calls "bad luck" and continue playing this way. Play smart and in the long run you'll take in much more money than you lose.
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PietsWorld 3 years ago
Well one has to consider the implied outs too.
evilninja111 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Phil is making a BIG mistake in this video. Specifically, using the Rule of 4 & 2. What he is neglecting is that you can only multiply your outs by 4 if you are seeing the turn and river (All-in). If you are just considering the flop bet (where he has 12 outs) his percentages of improving on that "street" is only approx 24% (12/47). On the turn he picks up 3 more outs, now he has 15 outs, giving him a 32.6% (15/46). He's not telling you guys is that 4-2 rule only applies in a freeroll situation.
barcelona18991999 3 years ago
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT DUDE? stop confusing people ok? If you listen to the video correctly you will hear that phil says "by the river" when he explains multiplying by 4. That is when you will go till the river. 2nd of all what FREEROLL situation are you talking about? it has nothing to do with freerolls... money game or tournaments or freerolls whatever it is 2&4 rule works everywhere as long as its texal hold'em. There are also implied odds but thats more complicated..
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willemrules 3 years ago
nice video!
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willemrules 3 years ago
But why do you need a 33% odds on that. I'm slightly confused here.
Brazzle 3 years ago
because u r investing 33% of the total pot, so therefor u should only invest in accordance to ur chances of winning... (i think... hehe) in other words if u hav a 33% chance of winning u should only call upto 33% of the total pot being bet... i think i fuck it, hehe but hey i tried for u .... gl with ur game
DaKrabla 3 years ago 2
Nice video~! It really help poker players learn to improve their ability of calculating poker odds.
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gokmbc 3 years ago
errrrr, keep in mind if ure playing on a table with 6 or even 9 or 10 people these can have 1 of those outs he is calculating .... which makes the chance of getting that out smaller ...
Dumb006 3 years ago
that has apsolutley no relevance unless u know they are playing tight aggresive so they will be holding jj, qq, kk aa, ak, and even this range is far too broad to make it relevent to decision making
frankiedetorie 3 years ago 3
u can't calculate that into counting outs. There is just as good a chance that the winning card is in the deck than there is that somebody is holding it. You just have to think of the next card as a random card.
BriDirt 3 years ago
pot odds like this are used every hand, but they matter a lot more in close decisions
mebaran 3 years ago
IMPORTANT: Does this system work ONLY when you need ONLY 1 card to your winning hand?
ilPalomba 3 years ago 2
Yeah i think so i dunno any way to calculate running odds
3Solidus 3 years ago
getting running cards are usually about 2% to win
BriDirt 3 years ago
Grande Palomba! Ahah! Ma certo che si vede il tuo math studies.. è più complicato e si fa con un metodo diverso, ma la probabilità si può sempre calcolare!! :D Cmnqe tieni sempre presente che un running running non viene quasi mai. Mitico.. Prima o poi ci incontreremo e ti sfidero a Texas Hold'em quindi? :))
Bellacolo07 3 years ago
can u comment in english please?
dont understand italian. ;)
yelkamarisa 3 years ago
You are right, I'm sorry. It was just that I met an Italian friend on here just by accident and I was having fun of one of his comments ;)
Bellacolo07 3 years ago
how does he get 15 outs when the 8c appears on the turn. I dont see why 3 more was added to 12 outs.
gforceram 3 years ago
at that point his gut shot draw of 3-5-6-7 turned into an open ended draw of 5-6-7-8 leaving him w/ any spade (9 outs), any 4 (3 outs, excluding the spade), or any 9 (3 more) totaling 15 outs.
efh0888 3 years ago
Oh ok that helped out alot thank you so much.
gforceram 3 years ago
i think what a lot of you are missing here is the fact that most people who are going to buy this dvd are not as intelligent as most of you. what phil is trying to do here is give the "average joe" a little taste of poker theory. im sure he understands that these odds arent entirely accurate, and that playing at an actual table with experienced players is much more difficult than using the "rule of 4 and 2." phil gordon made a poker dvd to make a little extra cash. its all about marketing folks.
weizenugb 3 years ago
thx this video has been a lot of help
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Yecapixtla6 3 years ago
Good advise Phil, I read it in your book, but I needed this video to really help it sink in
truefan4u 3 years ago
ROFL
WannaGraphic 3 years ago
lmfao lmao lol thas sum funny shit i laff'd til i cudnt laff no mo hahahaha
43Dalwick 3 years ago
I don't get the 1/3 33% chance to win to call.....HELP PLEASE!!!!
fedormmagod 3 years ago
If you mean that calculation by jagriffith1, don't bother. It goes wrong on more than one occasion and he seems to be too full of himself to go trough it again with thought.
j00f 3 years ago
for fedormnagod: if you are talking about phils "making winnig decisions" he was saying that the pot was 100, someone before him bet another 100 (size of the pot) making it 200, so a call from him of a 100 would make it 300, so 100 for 300 is 1/3 or 33%. i hope that helps some.
porkinwitz 3 years ago
also i might add that the 33% is greater than his 20% to win so thats why he says to fold
porkinwitz 3 years ago
I have heard that phil gordon is a very good in matematic.
hiEverybodyitsMe 4 years ago
He used to own is own business I think it was to do with computers and yeah thats where he gets all his maths from.
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Pechnase6 4 years ago
Yeah Phil Gordon is the best.
JimmyTapthat 4 years ago
Nice to know. I always thought these were more complicated.
Baron821 4 years ago
It is more complicated. These odds are wrong!
If you have "12 outs" and six people are playing, assuming none of the cards count as outs were dealt to other players, the odds are 33.33 percent, not 48 percent.
Figure it out.
Six players with two hole cards - 12 cards gone. Three dealt on the flop, one burned before flop - 4 cards gone.
Now with 16 cards gone from a deck of 52 leaving 36 and you need any one of 12 of them, what are the odds?
12 in 36 or 33.33% obviously.
jagriffith1 4 years ago
the other players cards are irrelevant.
Because their cards could just as easily include your outs as they could other cards.
You are wrong, not him.
slahblah 4 years ago
Right. It is probable that you have never taken a course in applied probability and stochastic processes.
The other player's cards are irrelevant. What!!!
jagriffith1 4 years ago
Heh, and what did you get on those courses? An F?
The odds that those 16 cards of your opponents include/don't include your outs are the same as on any random 16 cards left in the deck. Making them irrelevant in this calculation.
Also, you calculated odds for 1 card to hit your outs. In poker, there are 2 cards left to be dealt after the flop, so your odds are of course higher.
j00f 3 years ago
I love reading responses from goofs like you.
(Google Taylor Series - have someone explain it to you slowly and repeatedly)
Each turn of the cards is one card and hence one outcome. The odds for each card can be calculated separately and summed to produce the same overall answer - that is, if you can calculate the sum correctly.
Even mindless blabbering automatons should one-day realize that a rule of 4 or rule of 2 is, at best, only an approximation.
Keep yapping!
jagriffith1 3 years ago
Exactly... I cant even believe that jagriffith guy is so dumb! He might be joking around, but if not I feel bad for him being so stupid.
I mean its like saying you're more likely to get AA heads up because with more player they might have the other aces
slahblah 3 years ago
you're probably right jagriffith while the acclaimed proffessional poker player, writer of several well received books on poker theory is probably wrong ... count those odds why don't you
btw if ur playing online plz do give me the site and your nick
tata
KrisGravity 3 years ago
Unless all these people who have won millions playing poker, and who write all these poker books are wrong, it works like this: The other players cards are irrelevant(unless you have seen them.) After the flop there are 5 known cards.This leaves the possibility of any of 47 different unseen cards that could come on the turn. No one card more or less likely than then next. (Unless it's the card you need, then you have zero chance.)
Braincrafter 3 years ago
tnx braincrafter, but i knew. normally i'm not apt to educating the fish ... but i couldn't resist some mild sarcasm for this jagriffith or what's his name. and remember: don't be to pissed when the blind squirrel finds the occasional nutt!
KrisGravity 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ur an absolute fucking idiot, just dont play poker. Unless its with me for alot of money because ill wipe the floor with you and your crazy percentages